The really, really, really long-term view…and when you’ll die
Published on - November 28th, 2012 (by Robert Brokamp) This is a post from staff writer Robert Brokamp of The Motley Fool. Robert is a Certified Financial Planner and the adviser for The Motley Fool’s Rule Your Retirement service.
I know it’s the holidays, but I’m going to begin this post with a somber topic: death. I think about it quite a bit, not because I’m morbid, but because it’s one of the important variables in the calculus of retirement planning. After all, your retirement will end at your expiration. The longer you live, the more money you’ll need. A simple calculation indicates that a 65-year-old retiree needing $20,000 a year from her portfolio (apart from Social Security or other sources of income) would need approximately $285,000 saved up… as long as she dies at age 80. However, living to age 90 would require around $420,000. Those numbers jump to $430,000 and $630,000, respectively, if the retiree needs $30,000 annually from her portfolio.

“Where did my savings go?”
Of course, we don’t know when we’ll die, which is why the standard financial-planning recommendation is to assume you’ll live to 90 or 95, to be on the safer side.
I’ll ponder passing even more in about a month or so, as many articles will list the famous people who died in 2012. I always read them, because they often are a mini-tribute to great things some people did (or the tragic mistakes some people made), and I usually find out that there are some people who died whom I hadn’t heard about. But I also read them because they illustrate the broad range of ages at which people pass away.
Consider the people who have met their makers so far this year, along with their ages:
- Neil Armstrong (82), the first human on the moon
- Jerry Nelson (78), the voice of Sesame Street’s Count von Count and the Muppets’ Robin and Camilla the Chicken
- Davy Jones (68) of the Monkees
- Ron Palillo (68), a.k.a. Arnold Horshack from “Welcome Back, Kotter”
- Author Gore Vidal (86)
- Sally Ride (61), the first American woman in space
- Productivity guru Stephen Covey (79)
- Whitney Houston (48)
- Andy Griffith (86)
- Rodney King (47)
- Donna Summer (63)
- Maurice Sendak (83)
This isn’t a representative sample in a statistical sense, but it illustrates that many people die well before their 90s. Most Americans make it to their 70s, many to their 80s, but not as many to their 90s. Of the famous folks who died in their 90s in 2012, there are author Ray Bradbury (91), actor Earnest Borgnine (95), and former Senator George McGovern (90), perhaps best known as getting walloped by Richard Nixon in the 1972 presidential election, but should also be remembered for his piloting a B-24 Liberator in World War II. The numbers tell us that nonagenarians are in the minority.
How long should you plan to live?
It may seem difficult – or even foolhardy – to save a lot of money today for something that (for most people) is many years away, and isn’t likely to happen. Heck, many people die even before they had a chance to retire. Yet the odds of living to 90 may not be as small as you think. According to a report published by the White House, 30.7 percent of 65-year-old women will make it to their 90s; nearly a fifth of 65-year-old men will last that long. Those odds are high enough for me to plan to live to my 90s.

“Yeah, I tapped my 401(k) to buy tuna. But it was worth it.”
Living a long life implies a very long investment horizon, even for retirees, but especially for those who are still working. Consider a 40-year-old who projects he will need $30,000 a year in today’s dollars from his portfolio in retirement, and will live to age 90. Assuming 3 percent annual inflation (the average since 1926, according to Ibbotson Associates), the first withdrawal from his portfolio would be $72,818 in 2042 (assuming he retires at age 70) and $131,517 in 2062 (the year he turns 90). That’s a long time, and a lot of money. It suggests that retiree wannabes need to save quite a bit, and invest in stocks to shoot for potentially higher returns – if they can stand the volatility and uncertainty.
Those numbers also illustrate that retirement isn’t just a single investment horizon (i.e., the day you actually retire). It’s actually a series of 25 to 30 time horizons – each year in retirement — with potentially higher amounts needed for each year. This also suggests that you can take more risk with at least some of your savings, even after you retire.
Now vs. tomorrow
Financial planning is always a balance (nay, compromise) between living for today and preparing for the future – even if that future may not occur. Saving for retirement or college, buying insurance, avoiding or incurring debt even for “investments” such as an education or home – whether you’re doing the right thing is never certain. The best we can do is make prudent assumptions and have a Plan B ready in case the assumptions turn out to be wrong. As for how long you’ll live, you can fiddle with this longevity calculator. It can’t predict your date of death, but it’s interesting to see which factors increase or decrease projected lifespan. Finally, I’ll leave you to ponder this quote from Mohandas Gandhi: “Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.”
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Strikes me from your list, the lesson is don’t do drugs.
Now, on life expectancy.
http://www.med.uottawa.ca/sim/data/Rectangularization_of_mortality_e.htm
Rectangularization. People need to be aware of what’s happening to life expectancy.
Most people are going to live a long time.
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I’ve attended talks by researchers from the Methuselah Foundation and they argue that if you can live long enough to take advantage of the advancements that are coming our way, you can live a very, VERY long time. It wouldn’t be extended years of old age — it would be more years of health and vitality..
So if you live to age 200, you’re probably not going to retire at 60 — you’ll probably go through multiple careers. No clue what that’s going to do to the job market or if the planet can support the population boom that comes with longevity, never mind what happens when the wealthy can afford life extending therapies while others can’t.
There’s a reason I try not to think about it too much
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Working longer only appears to be an option for those in white collar jobs. It frustrates me when people talk about raising the federal retirement age, because many people who work in the trades or in construction really can’t retire later. One’s body is just worn out by 60+ years. I don’t see how that could change even with longer lives.
But your point is taken that people could transition into different careers. But I’m not sure exactly how this works. Who’s looking to hire a 60 year old in a brand new career?
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There’s research for that too
(It’s being done in Canada, the U.S. and Europe and is still in early stages.) People who work white collar jobs — especially people who are in positions of authority who have lots of autonomy — are more likely to work longer.
The career transition thing is in the case of ultra-longevity. If what experts like Aubrey de Grey think comes to pass, you could be 100+ and still be what we consider age 30. I assume that would include curing “wear and tear” issues like osteoarthritis (which even young athletes can develop.) I guess after being in one career for 40 or 50 years you could go back to school for another career for 40 to 50 years of your life.
I can’t wrap my head around ultra-longevity, to be honest, but it sounds like great fodder for a sci-fi novel
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Thanks for the info, Elizabeth. I personally don’t buy into ultra-longevity. I think more people will live to 100 or older. But 150? 200? I find that hard to believe, but of course I am no expert.
My grandma lived to 100 and all of my other grandparents lived passed 85. Despite our good genes, I often say we live long, miserable lives. We might have longevity but I don’t think the quality of life was good in any of their cases past 90. That’s not to say their lives weren’t worth living, even at the end, but hopefully the advances in science will also improve the nagging but not deadly things that afflict the elderly like arthritis and dementia.
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The federal retirement age is when people start getting Social Security. It has nothing to do with saving your own money and preparing to retire earlier than that. People younger than 55 should plan their retirement as if there were no Social Security anyway.
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My grand parents and great grand parents lived well into their 90s. I am hoping to leave something behind so just in case I live longer, I can tap on that.
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Good plan, Pauline. We aren’t guaranteed even the next moment, but if we do make it to the 90+ range of years, I think it is important we prepare for that time so we aren’t a tax burden on a younger generation.
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Sites like RealAge are also interesting in terms of predicting your longevity. If your “RealAge” is less than your actual age in years, I understand that as an indication that you’re going to live beyond the average age.
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I went to take the test, and they expected me to either create an account or login with my Facebook page. Boo.
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Don’t you have a fake spam-magnet email address? I keep a hotmail account JUST FOR THAT.
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I do, but it’s the time it takes to login and create an account that annoys me.
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ha ha, yeah– i looked at it too and said “meh”
my doctor says i’m doing pretty great though so that’s really all i need
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Oh oh…I only have 1.5 years left to live.
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Interesting post! I figure I’m planning for a long life, but if I die earlier it’s all the more I can leave my heirs. What keeps me up at night is disability. Maybe I can aim to work until age 65 or 67, but will my body let me? Sometimes people forget there’s a big difference between life expectancy and health adjusted life expectancy (HALE).
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Good point, Elizabeth. Also, we women live so much longer than men, on average, that we have to be all the more plan-ful, as a group, to support our additional years of retirement. To me, that means cultivating joy and health in ways that are thrifty, not spendy (so I write a lot about how to do that).
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This is in part a reply to Elizabeth’s reasonable expectation to live to mid 60′s and also in general reply to Robert’s article.
I get that I could live to 65 and leave whatever’s left to my heirs, but it could just as easily be 55 or 50. Why don’t people plan more for under-living their life expectancy?
More to Robert’s article, I get that I could live to 95 or 100, but statistically the odds of that happening are slim, especially since men tend to die earlier than women. Saying that such and such percent of 65 year olds make it to 90 is somewhat misleading because getting to 65 is half the battle. Just ask Steve Jobs or Michael Jackson.
I know — better to be safe than sorry, but let’s also be realistic because “better safe than sorry” can lead to crazy over-planning and wasted time/resources. By definition, low probability events are not as likely as high probability events, but to each his own.
I guess my question is why don’t people take a reasonably life expectancy and just plan plus or minus 15 years is probably good enough.
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But, the older you get the more likely you are to outlive the average. That average includes all the people that died of accidents at very young ages, etc.
But if someone is 70 and still hearty and exercising and remains mentally active, the average lifespan of 70 yos in that condition is very different than the overall average.
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When we do planning for our clients we assume they will live to 95. While many won’t, it’s better to plan on having more money than predicting that you’ll live to 85 and end up living to 90 with the last few years broke.
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95 years is the safe number I came up with too. Particularly if you’re planning for a married couple. The chances that one spouse will live to 95 is about 40%.
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When it comes to money you should always plan for the worst. When the worst comes to retirement the worst is to live a very long time. I plan my retirement for 100. I may or may not make it to 100, but at least I’ll have the money if I do.
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Brokamp is my favorite GRS writer BY FAR. The man is smart and writes so well!
My wife and I have planned to live to 100, and hey, if I go out in a blaze of glory earlier, I hope to pass on some of my savings to my daughters!
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My folks have just recently gotten the OK to retire from their financial advisor. Since they’ve recently paid off their mortgage, my Dad has decided to keep working for another 5 years to pad their savings/investments up a little and very happily – they’re considering selling their house and buying an income property instead! I very much hope to be so well fixed when I get to my fifties.
Now, I’m putting more of my focus on getting rid of my student loan debt- but this is really good to think about – I find I’m really anxious to start saving more aggressively. Thank you for the post!
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Um, THIS FREAKS ME OUT! I am only 27 and honestly, when you talk of WHEN YOU WILL DIE it makes me shiver.
Also, I think it would be better to discuss how long do you plan to be retired and NOT when you should expect to die (for crying out loud!)
I think people should make retirement plans based on how long they want their retirement to be. Some people will retire at 60 and plan for 25 years of retirement, others would want to retire at 40 and plan for 45 years of retirement.
And also, you wouldn’t have to go too deep in calculations for your retirement if you have a steady stream of income. Or better yet, several streams: a buziness, a rental property or two, some savings and maybe some stocks. As long as your income streams keep running, you don’t have to make retirement plans based on SAVINGS.
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“a steady stream of income” being the operative term there
I wonder how many people will have passive streams of income besides investments in retirement? Or how many seniors can realistically be landlords?
Yeah, this is freaking me out a bit too…
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Well, if you wait to buy a rental property until after you ALREADY have retired… it’s going to be too late
But seriously, thinking about dying freaks me out. That’s why I can’t even listen to sales reps selling life insurance. *shivers*
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lol. I meant stay landlords in their senior years, not become them
I have friends whose parents are landlords into their late 60s and early 70s, and they have a hard time keeping up with their income property. I can’t imagine them doing it in their 80s, and they’ve already lost a lot of time carrying for their properties that they could been using for other things.
Hmmm. Maybe the goal is to own a rental property and hire a property management company?
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Rya,
If the thought of dying is that distressing to you – I highly recommend you volunteer at a hospice center for a few days. I think it would drastically change your view.
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The aim of gerontologists is not to simply extend life expectancy, but to “square the curve”. That is, to extend medical knowledge so that people are vital and active up until or close to death. If you don’t have that, extending life expectancy is counterproductive. I’ve learned from personal examples the best way to do that is to be active (turn off the boob tube, get out there).
It would be nice to plan as if I were to live to 100, but a) that is not a particular goal of mine and b) I can’t do that without without sacrificing present day goals (setting aside money for a publishing project, helping my children pay for college). I guess what I’m saying, is that all the people listed above, none of them would have been noteworthy if they spent their time wondering how to prepare to live to 90 or 100, versus actually doing whatever they were doing to be noteworthy.
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That’s great that you don’t think living to 100 is important enough to plan for, but unless you consider suicide an option you may not get to say. That’s great that you would rather pay for your kids’ college than your own retirement, but how will they feel about supporting you if you outlive your savings?
The challenge is to do what you think is important, AND look out for the future. Saying the future isn’t important only flies until you get there.
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I love the Gandhi quote.
A deteriation in my health worries me more than death. My “cut-off” date is 100 and if my body and mind check out before that, at least I will have the funds for my family to help me and help themselves. Caring for a family member takes an emotional, physical and monetary toll. I hope to make my life and those around me as easy and pleasant as possible.
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I really struggle with this issue. My grandma just passed away last year at 100 years old, and even as a working class individual, she managed to have about $30,000 left upon her death. This included about 4 years in a nursing home to the tune of $8,000 a month. I marvel at her frugality, and my parents are on the same path.
Yet even though I have personally watched this effective frugality at work, I cannot be on board with how my parents lived their whole lives. They never splurged, except for a few European vacations they took in their 50s and 60s. And even then they stayed in the cheapest of hostels and ate the cheapest of foods. Even now my mom can’t “splurge” on a coffee out. She is ridiculously frugal to the point that I wish she would just enjoy life.
This permeates all aspects of her life to the point that I don’t think she could ever enjoy spending money. She has convinced herself that this makes her happy, and whenever I question her extreme frugality, she’ll say, “Well, I might live to be 100 like my mom, and then you’ll be glad I was so frugal.”
She is the master of self-denial. When she goes out to eat, she’ll ordered the smallest and cheapest thing on the menu and declare “I’m just not hungry.” But I think the truth comes out when we go somewhere free (like a wedding or whatever) and suddenly her stomach grows and she can eat a whole meal.
I have no interest in her scrimping her whole life so that I get an inheritance; yet I can’t fault her for planning ahead. We do tend to live for a long time. But nonetheless, I can’t bring myself to be that frugal with my children or myself.
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Sheesh, Dave. How conspiratorial of you. He made an innocent mistake. I wouldn’t read too much into the omission of an adjective.
Wait, scratch that, when I read Brokamp, I always think jingoistic patriot whose subtle goal is to forward American superiority.
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The only question mark I see with these types of articles is that it doesn’t seem to make a distinction between peeling from the investment basis versus drawing from earnings only. (This author touches on it briefly in his 1st paragraph, but then doesn’t go on to explain the mechanics of how it actually works.)
If you are only drawing about 3-4% per annum from your retirement *earnings*, and never actually touching the base capital, then theoretically, the money would never run out (provided your investment growth equalled or exceeded the % that you draw each year). This is the exact same model that is used by non-profit institutions to manage endowments.
This is how some people have figured out how to “retire” at age 30 or 40. They don’t have to have millions socked away, they only have to save or invest *enough* of a capital basis so that the annual growth exceeds what they want to draw each year for income. (BTW – That “investment” could include stock or bond markets, or real estate holdings.)
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If I’m not around to enjoy all this money I’m pouring into my IRA and 401(k) I’m gonna be pissed.
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Lesson of the day:
Enjoy the present moment, plan for the future. If you keep worrying about the future, then eventually you’ll regret what you haven’t done in the past during the last years of your life.
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Sally ride was the first American woman to go into space. Soviet Union launched Valentina Tereshkova in June 1963, 20 years earlier.
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Thanks for the catch, RM! I will correct this error!
-Jen the Editorial Elf
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Question – any idea why I keep getting “you’re posting too fast, slow down.” messages? Just curious… It seems that there is some sort of limit on the number of posts overall, or maybe some type of time lock-out restriction on posting. It seems to kick in, even if I’m commenting on different articles. I also tend to type very fast, so maybe I’m just posting too frequently…?
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I will look into this message and respond as soon as I know more. Thanks for your question.
-Jen the Editorial Elf
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Thank you for bringing up the concern about the posting message. Yes, there is a limit to how frequently you may post. Our system will only allow one comment every 15 minutes. This helps to reduce spam from flooding the comments section. Thank you for your patience with our commenting parameters.
-Jen the Editorial Elf
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My husband and I save as if we were living to be 100. But realistically based on our grandparents, he’ll live into his 80s and I may hit 90 or so. If we die earlier, then no biggie money-wise. If we die later than 100, oops.
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I think its wise to plan on living a long life, but if you have current health issues today, in your 30s, its hard to think financially into the future when you always have today to worry about.
How do you balance the two?
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I just turned 66 years old this month! I had a physical a couple months ago and my doctor said my real age is 35 year old. I may not look 35, but I have the statistics of a 35 year old. I will retire again at age 70 and I plan on living 30 years in retirement. My mother lived to 99 years old. I will probably live as long. Based on that, I plan to withdraw only 3% from my IRA. I really don’t need the money thanks to a pension, Social Security and no debt.
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My mother is in her 90s. I don’t plan on living that long. She doesn’t have any chronic illness, never smoked and never drank. I on the other hand have 2 illness and I did (NOT ANYMORE) smoke and drink and was actin a fool in my yute!
I hope I can live to see 70s! I would be happy!
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Great article, despite the focus on death.
Don’t count on the US government to help you in retirement, ie SS, Medicare, etc. The government is bankrupt. It will help you as long as it can, but this charade of borrowing at low rates will come to an end.
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The issue of retirement planning has been one of my favorite topics discussed at GRS. Moms folks just passed in last five yrs, Gramma/90 Gramps/95.5. Dads long ago, Gramma/84 Gramps/79. Alzhimers and cancer on dads side. Live a damned long time on moms side. I work for a Railroad and work on call 24/7 with no days off. To say its a unhealthy lifestyle is the understatement of the millinia. I can draw full RR Retirement at age 60 and have a 401k that is not funded at all by the Carrier. What to do? I want the Hell out at 60 but at almost 43 I dont know if Ill have enough? Health insurance is the 1,000 lb. gorrila in the room as far as I’m concerned. I know I will keep working after the railroad but I’ll be damned if its nights, weekends and Hollidays. My point is that blue collar workers take a toll on their bodies and want to “retire” before we die, but what if our jobs leave us decrepit and unable to enjoy our lives in the latter years? Retire too early to enjoy some life and go broke- too late and health goes to Hell or die before retirement. ??????
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Plan to live way longer than you might expect, and plan to stop working much earlier than you might want to. The latter tends to happen a lot to people, who don’t plan for poor health or being unable to find or keep work when older that compares to what they did when earlier in life. Sad, but it happens. Best to be realistic and save as much as possible as early in life as possible!
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Wow, only 30 percent of women age 65 make it to their 90′s. I have been taking very good care of my health and fitness so far and plan to do the same into old age so I will definitely plan to have enough money to retire at least into my 90s.
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Guys, you have NO IDEA how good the Longetivity site is and the calculator that was shared.
GRS Editors, please write an article on it, and every 40+ person will want to go and run this calculator.
If you are young, it is cute to run it, but if you are in the 50′s or 60′s you REALLY want to know.
No one really knows the future, but taking ALL the 360 degree view of variables and figuring out the Life Expectancy DOES NOT GET ANY BETTER THAN THIS.
Please, please, please go to this site, run it, and then save the site for future re-runs as you improve your situation (or make it worse).
QoL (quality of life) is all about doing the right things, and seeing the results of it through this site.
I am making it part of my Retirement Manual.
Kenny
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