“What’s a little money between friends?” That common question has wrecked more than a few friendships. Reader Alexa (who blogs at Single Moms Income) is in that situation now. She recently sent us a story and a question. Here’s her tale.
I moved back home near the end of July where I immediately reconnected with one of my old friends — we’ll call him J — whom I hadn’t seen in several years. In just a short couple of months, he became one of my best friends again. We began talking nearly every day and visiting each other a couple of times a week.
My new-found best friend has a baby on the way and was driving a clunker on the verge of breakdown. His credit is bad (warning sign number 1), so he wanted to purchase a reliable car from a “buy here/pay here” car lot. The car lot required a significant down payment, and he was $500 short. J called and asked me if he could borrow that $500.
I initially told him no because I didn’t think it was a good idea. He called and asked again, so I thought he and I could do a little bartering. J is in the construction business and is a very good handyman. I recently purchased a trailer that was in need of some extensive work. I gave J two options: he could work on the trailer to pay me back or he could pay me $75 a week until the loan was repaid (interest free). He chose option number one.
I’m no sucker so I made him secure the loan with something more valuable than the amount that I had given him. He gave me his grandfather’s old Thompson Contender Pistol, four gun barrels, and two scopes, all retailing for around $1,200. This was a good deal to me; my family owns gun shops and I could easily sell the merchandise to them for $800 if J was to break the contract.
We drew up a contract and signed it. J was going to do the work to pay me back and upon completion I would give him his gun and accessories back. The first week he came and worked about four hours, a whopping $60 worth of work. That was it. I called him – no answer. Sent texts – still heard nothing.
I blindly trusted this friend. Now I have $800 worth of his grandfather’s (who passed) guns and accessories and have a guilty conscience about selling them.
As we know from the response to Jezna’s Reader Story from last Sunday, a lot of us wrestle with lending money to family or friends who are not as fiscally responsible as we try to be. At least Alexa had the sense to secure the loan with something of value. But now she feels guilty about selling the guns and stuff. Obviously, J didn’t care much about his grandfather’s things.
Because they have a written contract, it is technically enforceable. (It would have been better if they’d had a third, neutral party witness it and then had it notarized.) Alexa could sue him. That gets ugly and expensive, but it is an option.
Me, I’d give J another month to show up and do the work. I’d keep calling or texting. If there was no response, I’d sell his stuff.
So, what do you think Alexa should do? Have you lent money to friends or family who haven’t paid you back? What did you do?
GRS is committed to helping our readers save and achieve your financial goals.Savings interest rates may be low, but that’s all the more reason to shop for the best rate.Find the highest savings interest rate from Ally Bank, Capital One 360, Everbank, and more.
This article is about Ask the Readers, Real-Life
Disclaimer: This content is not provided or commissioned by American Express. Opinions expressed here are author's alone, not those of American Express, and have not been reviewed, approved or otherwise endorsed by American Express. This site may be compensated through American Express Affiliate Program.
Discover is a paid advertiser of this site. Reasonable efforts are made to maintain accurate information. See the Discover online credit card application for full terms and conditions on offers and rewards.
SEARCH FOR RECENT ARTICLES
Fastest way to ruin a relationship is to lend money.
There really is no other answer.
I always give money if the person needs it and I have it. Otherwise…
The guns? Not sure. If I didn’t need the money- I probably would hold on to them for a while.
I would not bother texting and begging for work to be done—and going to the courts is WORTHLESS.
loading....
If your friend doesn’t give you the money, your friendship is ruined. If you sell the guns, your friendship is ruined. Either way, yoru friendship is ruined. I’d sell the guns, at least that way you’re not sunk as far as money goes. And you can’t say you didn’t try. From the last time I heard from your friend, I’d give em a month; if still no word, screw it, sell sell sell.
loading....
The best way to prevent these types of issues with family and friends is to never loan them the full amount that they need.
If they need $500 offer them $100.
Tell them this is how life works now they have $100 they need to find the other $400.
Now they’ll call some other people or do whatever but in the end you are only out $100 instead of $500.
loading....
Lol, there are some friends/family members that I can’t imagine saying, “this is how life works” to.
It’s a good idea though, lending just a portion.
loading....
I don’t mind lending money to friends. It’s the quickest, yet sometimes painfully expensive way to really find out if they are truly your friends. Real friends won’t hold out on you.
loading....
That’s the reason you should never lend money to friends. Now the OP is out both $800 and their budding friendship.
loading....
Give them one chance to prove themselves worthy of a loan.
Make the loan for a much smaller amount than they ask for so that your losses are low.
If that doesn’t work out, just quote that as an example the next time they ask for money.
Seems harsh but that’s the attitude you’ll get if you get burned multiple times after loaning to family and friends.
loading....
If he didn’t care about the guns in the first place, why didn’t he sell them to get the $500? His new friend owns gun shops, so this wouldn’t be too difficult.
Or maybe he’s just banking on Alexa not having the heart to sell them.
loading....
When I read the article, my first thought wasn’t that you became reconnected as friends, but that he was setting you up to ask a favor. Even with my very good friends, I don’t talk to them several times a day or see them multiple times per week. I’d like to, but between work and family I just don’t have the time. Generally, I am mistrustful of people that want to be new best friends, because it feels like either a con or an emotional disorder on their part. Also, I don’t loan people money. To quote Shaq, “I’m not a bank.”
loading....
I try hard not to ‘lend’ money, only give it without expecting it in return. That way it prevents me from giving more than I can manage and the relationship is not damaged. That said, no one has ever asked me for more than $100.
loading....
That’s my rule as well. If I can give the money and am comfortable doing so, I do. If I can’t afford to give someone the money I couldn’t have afforded a loan, anyhow. That way there’s no chance of me ruining a friendship over money.
loading....
This is what I did, my friend wanted money to pay for vet bills for a puppy that we both love. She didn’t ask, I offered. The amount far exceeded what she could pay comfortably, but it was barely a dent in my net worth tracking spreadsheet. I would not have given it if I couldn’t. That being said, she is making a valiant attempt to repay some when she can, and offering up free babysitting at other times
I will never nag, or remind her or make her feel like she owes me something (I think she does that enough to herself)and I have no remorse that I probably will never see the whole amount – it was a gift, and I fully appreciate having the means to help her through a tough time. Our friendship is stronger than ever
loading....
Yes. If its not any significant amount then no issues. If its a significant amount I would ask why they need it and how they plan to pay back. I helped a friend with a bridge loan to buy his house.
loading....
I’m wondering if there’s more to this. He has a baby on the way, but nothing is said about his wife/girlfriend. Are you friends with her also? If you were talking to him nearly every day and seeing him a couple of times a week, this may have caused problems in his relationship with his baby’s mother. Are you sure he’s avoiding you because of the money, or could there be other reasons?
If I were you, I would stop trying to contact him. I’d leave it up to him to call me if he wants. Wait a few months, sell the guns, and send him the difference between what you got for them and what he owes you.
loading....
Nope. Neither a borrower nor a lender be.
loading....
When a friend is having financial trouble, I think it would create a weird dynamic/power struggle if one were to lend the other a larger amount of $. Friends can do things like paying for a cup of coffee (or round of drinks) or planning free or frugal meet ups and generally being a source of support and positivity; lending money is not the responsibility of a friend.
loading....
“lending money is not the responsibility of a friend.”
*this*. A friend is there to OFFER help, but I could not imagine asking a friend for money. Especially a recently reconnected friend.
I would exhaust every family member…he has skills apparently, so he could moonlight. I bet if you said no he would have found another way. You were just easier. Kudos to you though for taking the collateral in an attempt to protect yourself…many people wouldn’t do that.
loading....
We’ve been on the receiving end of a sizable loan from family (Mr. PoP’s parents), which we drew up as a formal contract and pay them interest on at regular intervals. But we had good credit, and we were going to be using the money to buy an income producing asset. Without that loan, we wouldn’t have been able to buy our duplex in the depths of the foreclosure crisis when the traditional financing wasn’t an option.
So on one hand, I have a hard time thinking we will always say “no” to family and friend loans.
But at the same time, for a small amount like what he was talking about (and yes, I know $500 doesn’t always feel small when it’s YOUR $500), he probably had options like peer-to-peer lenders. I think I would have encouraged a friend in that boat to try those options (since your credit doesn’t need to be the best) before loaning to a friend.
I think I would try and use family and friends as a last resort – but in this case, I think the lender is totally justified in selling the gun. If she doesn’t need the money and values the friendship long term, maybe she should hold onto it for 6 months before doing so to give him a chance since it’s kind of an heirloom.
loading....
I lent more than that to a friend, but I made him go through peer to peer lending site Prosper. That way he was truly on the hook for it, and he would get a fair market rate for the interest on the loan. It was a 3 year loan, and everyone ended up very happy with the result. I guess my advice is that you might want to use one of the peer to peer sites if the amount is meaningful.
loading....
I have lent money to friends and family but I always assume that I will never see it. I’ve also borrowed money from family and I’ve repaid it in full.
To me family and close friends who I treat as family are the most important thing in the world to me and if I can help I’ll help. But, as posted above I assume the money will not be repaid. And if I had a friend or family member asking for money on a regular basis I would probably get them some financial counsel or I would cut them off in that I wouldn’t want to enter into a codependent relationship.
loading....
I rarely loan money out, and only when I can afford to lose it (which is probably why I rarely loan it).
That said, I’ve been the recipient of 2 large loans: $7K from a friend towards purchasing our house, and $7K from my brother to replace the roof. Both times I did not ask for the money (nor dropped big hints with sighs); it was offered freely, a distinction that is extremely important to me.
The friend’s loan was definitely the more problematic of the two. I would have turned her down but she made the offer to my husband who instantly took it. My concern was that she would impose on us socially or otherwise feel we were obligated to her in some non-monetary way because of the loan, which is exactly what happened. (She was/is not a close friend, and she doesn’t respect social boundaries well.) We paid her back as quickly as possible and deflected requests to include her in our family outings.
My brother’s loan has worked out much better; there were no strings attached or hidden agendas. I insisted on writing up a contract that spelled out the terms of the loan, including the time frame for paying it back, and had us both sign it. I would have gotten it notarized but he said that was overkill and don’t worry about it. He is totally satisfied that I’ve kept to the terms of that contract thus far and all is well.
I think Alexa mostly handled her situation well. The only question I have is whether a time frame for doing the work on her trailer had been set up, or whether it was left open-ended. If the latter, that makes it a little harder to sell his grandfather’s guns – then it becomes, “But I was just about to come back and finish it and you sold off my family heirlooms!” If a time frame was set up in the contract and he misses it, then too bad.
I really like the reply about using a peer to peer lending site. That’s an excellent idea.
loading....
The guy just had a new baby! He’s probably not calling back because he’s exhausted.
I personally do not loan money to friends or family, but if I did I would consider it a gift, and if it got repaid I would consider that an unexpected surprise. And it if did not get repaid, I would consider that a well deserved lesson- neither a borrower nor a lender be.
In this case, I would keep the guns for a few months, and then give them back as a gift. Unless you are in dire need of the money, I would personally consider it a gift, as well as a lesson..
loading....
I don’t think the guy did just have a baby… she said “on the way”. The baby-mama could be 3 months along. Or just as likely, J could have made up a story about a baby to get the money.
loading....
Not knowing the whole story, it’s hard to tell but I can’t help but wonder if J is that hard up that wants Alexa to sell the guns and pay him the difference — only he doesn’t want to admit it. Perhaps he’s forcing her to make the decision to sell so he doesn’t have to? If she sells the guns, she’s the bad guy in everyone else’s eyes and he gets to save face.
Again, I don’t know if that’s the situation — but it might be an angle worth considering.
loading....
That may be, and I understand that having a new baby put quite a burden on the person – but let’s face it. The author did J a favor, and in return not only was he separated with his money, but also needs to face a hassle of finding out what J wants (but is possibly unwilling to admit), of selling the gun, of losing a friend … This is not the way friends behave. J probably had best intentions (of course I’ll repay! I’ll work on the trailer!!!!), but intentions are worth nothing, really. J’s bad credit should have been a warning.
Sell the guns now, and forget it.
loading....
Yes, but sometimes what happens between two friends doesn’t stay between two friends, especially in a small community. Maybe you lose a friend who isn’t that good a friend after all, and maybe you lose more people who side with that friend.
Sometimes people see there financial problems as other people’s fault. If she sells the guns, it’s HER fault for disposing of a family heirloom, not his fault for not paying back a loan. If the gun didn’t mean anything to J and his family, he could have sold it to buy the car rather than borrowing the money to begin with.
Like I said, we don’t know what’s going on here — but I think caution is needed. I don’t think selling the guns simply out of spite or revenge is the necessarily the best course of action.
loading....
It is the lender’s reputation on the line here in this small town where she has recently started setting up home again. If she sells, she is now a B. for life. If she doesn’t – pushover.
My theory is that J started fixing the trailer, found it is harder than he expected, and feels unable to complete the job. He is now avoiding the whole situation and waiting for her to make a move which he can then trumpet around town, rather than face the reality of having gotten in over his head. Instead of calling or texting, the author should make a real attempt to see this guy face to face and hash out what is up and a way out of this mess where they both save face.
loading....
Most of us have or have had a couple of J’s in our lives. It’s not that they are bad people but they seem to create their own grouping of problems and bounce from bail out friend to bail out friend as fortune allows. Seems there is more to this as well because you’ve gone from being connected to someone every day to being cut off and from past experience I understand that that hurts and makes you question the entire relationship. But do not allow that to alter your agreement in that whatever his excuses, he needs to finish his end of the deal. Keep in mind, the J’s of the world are long on promise, short on reality, and full of excuses.
IMHO you can do one of three things.
a. Sell the items per the contract (even taking your $500 out and giving him the difference as someone else suggested).
b. Give the items back and call your loan a gift to the new baby (if you can and are willing to afford it)
c. Continue to routinely call, say once a week, for a set period of time (say three months) and delay selling the items if you are in no real rush for the money. Then when you sell you can ease your conscious with having given an overly fair shot to J to do the work.
Item a will likely end the friendship and cause some bad feelings (happened to my wife). J will blame you completely, despite his actions, as an unsympathetic, greedy (insert appropriate cuss word here) type of person and with luck cease all dealings with you. (Do you really think you can trust him after this?)
Item b will likely have J thanking you, trying to reestablish the relationship, and then hitting you up for more money down the road, likely with the same collateral he used for this deal. “Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me”
Item c will probably have you either hanging onto the items for a longer period of time (happened to me and the result was the same as item a) or J futzing around with your place, working on it half heartedly like a kid told he has to do a hated chore. Eventually you will fold, because J is more experienced at taking advantage and will continue to play the “woe is me with the new baby” card every time he shows up until you cave and accept as full payment the minimal work he accomplished.
I prefer not to lend money to family or friends if I can’t afford to write it off as a gift. That said if you want to help someone by having them do work, the trick with J’s is make sure they do the work before you give them a penny. I mean that, you can go with them to buy supplies but don’t give money up front for supplies and don’t give them a penny until the job is done and make that part of the agreement. Then if they don’t show up, and blow you off a few times, you can just say you needed it done and you got someone else and are not out any cash. If they do show, they have incentive to do the work right. That’s worked for me once and half worked another time in that they did the bulk of the work but failed to complete the job so I ended up giving them some money and finished it off myself.
Best of luck on this.
loading....
If you value your friendships don’t lend money. It can get ugly and uncomfortable. If your friend is in dire straits and you want to help them out perhaps you can give them money as a gift, depending on the amount. That way there is no awkwardness associated with paying it back.
loading....
I have been in this situation, too. It always amazes me how “friends” turn into strangers once they owe you money. I DO think it is disingenuous to ask for a “loan”, when one is actually asking for a GIFT.
I have been naive enough to “loan” acquaintances money, and only bad things came out of this: if I expressed any curiosity as to when the loan will be repaid, recipients were offended and a few started whispering nasty things about me behind my back. A good creditor is a silent, meek creditor who just forgets about that nasty money that they had the privilege of loaning to their merry friends …
I shall NEVER, EVER lend money to relatives/friends/acquaintances again. If I like the person, know their need and can part with a sum – I give it as a gift, making clear it is a GIFT, no repayment necessary. Otherwise, it is always a firm and solid NO.
I stopped asking people that owe me money to repay. They are no longer my friends, that’s all. All things considered, I paid a couple of thousand for a life long lesson.
loading....
I would never lend money to a friend. I know first hand that money and good relationship do not and should not mix.
loading....
Lending money to friends can quickly destroy relationships. I would give money to a friend in need long before loaning money. If Alexa values this friendship, she should give the guns back and forgive the debt. If there is no value in the relationship, fight for the money and never lend money again.
loading....
I’m not sure what this says about me, but my first thought after reading the story was “if she sells the gun, it sounds like something that would end up on Judge Judy with the guy whining about the sale of the gun and Judge Judy tearing him a new one.” The only good thing about this story is that the woman who gave the loan demanded collateral. That was such a smart move on her part.
I also agree that maybe baby-mama is not too excited about her boyfriend/husband talking to this woman every day and hanging out with her multiple times a week. That said, he also sounds like a deadbeat. If I ever borrowed money from a friend, I would be so self conscious about it that I would work really hard to pay it off ASAP. The fact that he’s not doing so does not say great things about his character, IMO.
loading....
Call or text and leave a message letting him know where the guns will be sold at and when, giving him the option to recover if indeed it means something to him. From my experience get your money back from the sale of the guns and move on – he’s not a true friend. Having the items gone will help you get rid of the guilt.
loading....
I’m sorry, but I think she was fooled earlier on when he told her the car was a ‘clunker on the verge of breakdown’. Unless it’s actually standing still and unrepairable does he need a new one in this case. And he should have discussed it with his partner, not her. He’s having a baby and decides it’s more important to spend all savings and then some on a new-to-him car.
Maybe she can send him a letter by registered mail telling him she will sell the items on [date]. She can take her part of the money, and open a savings account in the baby’s name, and give the booklet to the mother?
loading....
I would never lend money to anyone, ever. We are debt-free and believe in a debt-free lifestyle, so of course I don’t want anyone to be in debt to me, either.
Not to mention the fact that it will tear your relationship apart with guilt, blame and shame.
loading....
Here is what you can do to possibly get your money back AND keep your friendship intact:
1) Take your friends’ collateral to your family’s gun shop and get it appraised. Bring the contract and explain the situation. Try to get a figure that covers your loan (with a bit taken off for the work he’s done) and some left over. Ask to temporarily store the collateral at their shop (all in one container, clearly marked)–it is MUCH safer there than in your trailer.
2) Call your friend to congratulate him on the new baby. Commiserate with him on how tired the new father must be (poor thing!) and how expensive it is to get baby stuff nowadays.
3) Say you’ve been thinking about his situation and how you absolutely couldn’t expect an exhausted new father to work off a debt in his spare time.
4) Explain that you’ve been storing his collateral at your family’s gun shop because you were nervous about keeping his valuable things in your trailer (true), and that…
5)…your family, recognizing its value, has made this FABULOUS offer, enough to pay off what remains of his debt with some left over for him to spend on baby stuff! (this is true enough, and if it gets a few items out of sequence, so be it.)
This will require some sweet-talking and a bit of dissembling, not to mention a slight liberty with the sequence of events. But if it works it gets you and your friend out of a bad-debt situation with some money in his pocket and your friendship intact, all at the expense of a few things he doesn’t really need–or seem to want much anyway.
If this doesn’t work, your best bet is to politely tell him “This isn’t working out, circumstances got in the way, come get your collateral back and pay me back when you have the money or the time.” And always find an excuse to not hang out with this guy in the future.
loading....
Considering the author blogs at “Single Moms income”, seems troubling that a single mom would bend over backwards to accommodate a new father (??? is he ?) who took her money and decided to split. Being a new parent is tough, yes, but being a Single Mom is also very challenging.
I think a simple solution is more practical. Sell the gun. You both would have fulfilled terms of your contract. Neither of you should feel bad after that. If he feels offended, it is his problem.
loading....
Never loan out more money to a friend than you’re willing to give to that friend.
Don’t sell the gun until you need the money. That way when/if he comes back he still has a chance of mending your relationship. However, if you need the money, I would send him a final notice (E-mail/phone call) and then sell it about 10 days later.
loading....
I’ve never lent money to anyone. If I decide to help someone out, I just give them the money. Otherwise I say no. I gave my mom $300 to fix her car and she insisted it was a loan and paid me back anyway. I also had a friend ask to borrow $5 and I told her to just keep it. She paid me back as well. I guess if you don’t expect it back, you can’t be disappointed and you can even be pleasantly surprised!
loading....
I have always given the money not expecting to receive it back. I recently gave my sister-in-law about $1700 to help her get on her feet and find an apartment, and even though she said it was a loan, I knew that the money would only get in our way if I actually expected repayment, so I decided to give it to her. Loaning money to a friend/family member with the expectation of repayment is not a good idea unless they have proven themselves in the short term with small payments.
loading....
The key to loaning to friends is to make it a loan that you expect never to be paid back.
I ‘loaned’ a friend $1200 at a time when there was a program that would waive all the late fees and such that she had racked up. She did not ask for the loan, I had heard about the program and told her about it, and she just did not have the money. Paying right then would save her a couple thousand, so I offered to pay it. I knew how bad she was with money, and I knew I wouldn’t likely see it again, but this woman has been a true friend over the years, and is truly a giver, despite also being a taker at times. We have been friends for 20 years, she has been a source of great emotional support during the lows, and celebrated with me during the highs.
She paid me about $800 back, which is more than I expected to get, and I know she considers the bill paid. What is funny is that this bugs a third friend of ours much more than it bothers me. It has been almost 2 years, and this third friend still brings it up to me like I should go after her for the money. To me, the friendship is worth far more than that, and I was helping her in a way that she could not help herself in a time of need. That is what friendship is about, and it is sad that money gets special status as something to end relationships over.
As for this particular case – it sounds like the friendship is over. Was $500 worth losing this relationship? If so, sell the guns and move on. If not, call the dude and tell him you want to hang out, regardless of the money. That you miss him as a friend, and that you are sad that a small amount of money has come between you.
loading....
About the third friend – how did she know of the financial arrangement? Maybe she’s taking her cues from you. If you mentioned the arrangement at all to her, she might think you were venting to her.
loading....
She was in the room when I offered, and we have all been good friends for 20 years. She is much more guarded with her money — she and this same friend were roommates in college and there were some disastrous financials, which the third friend still feels some resentment about. She (third) wanted to have a talk with our debtor friend on my behalf, and I talked her down from it by reminding her of the times (with specific examples) when this woman came through for me (and for her) when I really, really needed it. Once I reminded her about how great this friend is, and that my life is better with her in it – she (mostly) let it go. I don’t think she would ever loan this friend money, but she at least believes me now that I am OK with what was paid back.
These were two events in a lifetime, and I can’t imagine my life without either of these women. I’m out $400, but my friend got a major problem taken care of at a moment when she really needed it. I will add that I could afford the expense, and I did know her track record when I made the offer – I might feel differently if there had been negative consequences for not having that money, but certainly I have spent $400 on things less valuable. I would absolutely do it again.
loading....
I’ve lent money to a friend before. Floated him at least a thousand dollars. He did pay me back, but it took a long time.
I’ll never loan a friend a substantial amount of money again. $20-50 bucks is one thing, but $200-500 is another.
If you don’t need the money right now, tell them that they have X amount of time to pay you back before you sell the guns.
You can probably consider your friendship near toast at this point anyway…
loading....
Some close friends and I loan money to each other occasionally (less than $20) if we’re out to lunch and someone forgot their wallet, or I’m going to the hardware store and offer to pick something up for someone else. But its in small quantities and would stop if someone didn’t pay me back at some point, but this hasn’t been the case in 4 years with my closest friends (whom I consider to be family).
For larger amounts, my general rule of thumb is to only loan money as much as I can afford to gift, and then only if the person is in signficiant need of help. Only time I’ve done this was for a friend who was laid off and couldn’t make rent one month, I paid his rent as a gift and he paid me back within 4 months once he got back on his feet.
loading....
I don’t even consider extending “lunch” money to friends or co-workers a loan.
To me, a person who “forgets” a loan from a friend is a person without any integrity. I understand that sometimes life hits really HARD, and one just cannot return the loan. This is very difficult, but I think an honest thing to do is to honestly approach your creditor (who might herself be in dire straights!) and explain the situation. Now, I lent money to a few acquaintances, how many repaid me? 1. Half of their loan, after many reminders. How many were honest and straightforward with me about loan repayment? 0. I was sorely, sorely disappointed in people I considered friends. I do not understand how one can take a person who takes a loan and then ditches you (effectively) seriously, and consider them worth a friendship.
loading....
I am surprised several people are concerned about “mending the relationship”. J showed himself as a person of no integrity. If HE wants to “mend” the relationship, it is up to him to make an effort. I would say to the author: smart move on the collateral, just sell it and consider the story a lesson.
loading....
There is more to life than money. People argue and disagree and make choices others don’t agree with, but we mend relationships because relationships matter. You can bury your money in a tin can and guard it with a shotgun, but that sounds like a lonely life to me. It would be one thing if this loan truly caused the giver harm – but it doesn’t sound like it did. Losing the friendship in this case seems more harmful.
loading....
No, I disagree. My friends are people I respect. A deadbeat is not someone I can ever respect.
loading....
If money is your only measure of the value of a person, then that is a good plan for you.
A lot of the people in this forum are digging out of debt, and have made stupid and horrible decisions regarding money. Many have declared bankruptcy or settled debts rather than paying them in full. That doesn’t mean they are bad people.
loading....
@Stephanie: I do not think there are “bad” people in general. Admittedly, we do not know the whole story: maybe J is a wonderful guy and a responsible parent, and something dreadful happened to him, and that’s why he is not responding to the author’s inquiries. Everything is possible. Seems unlikely, but who knows. Nevertheless, ignoring your creditors is NOT the way to dig out of debt. Taking on a loan without intention to repay it is unethical, and not a trait I want to see in my friends. If people on this blog approve J’s approach to his money problems, and consider similar ways of dealing with their issues – I think they are on the wrong blog. Path to financial independence lies through discipline, integrity and honesty, not scamming your friends.
loading....
@SLWO – I understand what you are saying, but it doesn’t sound like Alexa feels the same way. She has the guns, which means she has the money, plus some. She isn’t out anything. If she felt this was a one-strike-you’re-out situation, she would sell them and move on. She wrote, IMO, because she still wants the relationship. She just moved back to this town and maybe doesn’t have a lot of support nearby.
My point is that everything isn’t black and white, and just saying that money trumps everything doesn’t always work. At least not for me, and it sounds like it doesn’t work for the OP.
loading....
I’ve lent money to friends but I never, EVER expect it back – I refer to it as the “moron tax” (not because my friends are morons, but rather, that if I expected them to pay it back and they didn’t, *I’m* the moron). But never more than a couple hundred bucks. I’d say they pay me back about 50% of the time, which is fine by me.
I tend to prefer to do other things rather than lend money, like give grocery store gift cards or offer to do stuff around the house for them since I’m handy. Minimizes the guilt for them and makes it feel more like a gift for me.
loading....
I look at how people use their resources before I may such a decision. Right now, with Christmas around the corner, we have a friend and a family member who can really use help. We are planning to send the friend a check because we know she is careful as to how she spends the money. The family member is another story. Cash or a gift card to that person would be like throwing money down the toilet. We’re planning to pay off a lingering utility bill for the family member.
loading....
Sell the guns to your family. Let your friend know where they are for resale in the event that he wants to buy them back. That way he has a choice. If he doesn’t value your friendship, it is possible that he doesn’t value the family guns either.
loading....
The title of the article seemed like it might be a good one, but here’s what I read:
This guy wasn’t a “friend;” she hadn’t seen him in years! I was hoping for an article about an actual friend.
He is irresponsible: he doesn’t have enough money to replace his car, he doesn’t have enough cash to put down or good enough credit to finance a car, all with a baby on the way. And then she lent him money…
Am I supposed to be surprised that he didn’t make good on his deal? This is precisely why banks look at credit scores in the first place! I feel like I just read an article saying that car salesman can be sleazy.
Also, as others have pointed out, he could have pawned the pistol for even more money. So it seems as though he was consciously taking advantage of her.
I was hoping for an article about lending to a real friend in actual need. Thanks to all the commenters who have posted their stories: they’re much more helpful and informative.
loading....
I had a good friend of a good friend who needed money. I could afford to give it, and wanted to help, and I never expected to get it back. However, I didn’t want to become a regular target for mooching. So I “lent” the money and said, “I’m happy to help, and after you pay this back I’ll be happy to lend it to you again any time you need it”. Of course, I never got repaid, but neither has that person asked me for money again — because it would bring up the fact that they haven’t repaid me yet. In this case it worked, and did not damage our friend-of-friendship.
loading....
First can you track him down to make sure he hasn’t died? Sometimes people disappear because they’re in serious trouble. Or arrested. I just did grand jury duty, and there were a couple frantic people who’d been arrested and hadn’t been able to contact family. No one knew they were being held by the police.
I won’t lend money to friends, no. I’d give a small amount of money if I felt there was a genuine health emergency, money I would resign myself to losing. Otherwise, what I will “lend” my friends is my couch and and my apartment if they need to move in with someone.
WAIT.
I wrote this and submitted, and then I suddenly remembered a friend who’d loaned me $5,000 a few years ago. I couldn’t afford my looming health insurance premium and had other cash flow problems. I was freelancing, work had been tight; the money was owed me, it just wasn’t going to show up in time. My friend’s loan was a godsend and even though we grew apart over other issues, I still am grateful to her.
So I guess my answer is “no.” Except … well, maybe. It all depends.
loading....
Where do I begin? My husband used to be a loan magnet. All of his brothers and one sister have asked us for money or cars over the years.
His brothers–not so good. One of his brothers borrowed one of our new vehicles he was to pay the car payment and insurance which he never did. We were smart and left our insurance on the vehicle but by the time we got it back(2 years of no payments) it has so many miles on it, the value was lower than our payoff balance. This was when I put my foot down and told husband not allowed to loan anything anymore.
but when His sister needed my car for what was supposed to be a month. I knew she was different and just needed some help. She ended up borrowing it for 1 1/2 years. She paid for the gas, oil changes, insurance, etc but I was without a car. Thankfully I didn’t need it because I carpool to work and had a car to go shopping on the weekends. When we got the car back, it had some minor things wrong but they took care of it. She repaid us by picking up our kids after school, taking them to CCD in evenings, and did other kindness towards us. I am ok with helping out because I have been helped out too, we just limit it to people we trust.
loading....
Absolutely not.
loading....
The first time I loaned money to a friend, it was a neighbor who was behind on her real estate taxes. She didn’t pay it back when she said she would, and I tried to be cool about it because I wanted her friendship. But the day I went to her house and saw her new TV and VCR (yeah, it was a while ago) I got mad and got my money back. Funny thing is, I felt kind of bad demanding it from her and no, the relationship was never the same afterwards.
I never loaned serious money out to anyone again. I may do the $5 – $25 lunch money/need gas to get home kind of thing, but I consider it a gift and rarely get paid back. These kinds of “loans” I have to live with.
Whether those guns have any meaning is probably moot at this point. Unless I really needed that $800 from their sale, if it were me I’d just told on to them.
We all know this friend is coming back for more money after the baby arrives.
loading....
Hmmm. If she keeps he guns and he comes back for more money, perhaps there’s an easy solution: “let’s sell the guns — I’ll get my money back from your previous loan and you’ll get the rest in cash.”
loading....
I realize I sound like a cheapskate – but SELLING stuff is not easy, you know. If the guns sell for $800, I think the author should keep all $800 – $500 for the loan, $300 for the trouble. It’s only fair.
loading....
I’d agree with you there but for this line from the post: “my family owns gun shops and I could easily sell the merchandise to them for $800″ She knew going in that she could easily sell the item and she had a fair idea of its value. That was a smart move, IMHO.
Still, doesn’t an item put up as collateral become the property of the creditor if the borrower defaults on the loan? She would be well within her rights to sell the guns and keep all of the cash.
Ah, now I’m on the fence. Thanks for the opposing point of view
loading....
My advice is that unless you need the cash, just hold onto the gun. My guess is that it go up in value over time – so you can treat it as a asset. If the ‘friend’ never contacts you – the gun is yours. If he does want to make good on the deal then you haven’t committed yourself yet one way or the other.
loading....
My husband had a brilliant solution to (what later turned out to be) the office mooch. He had not been at his job all that long, when a co-worker asked to borrow twenty dollars. My husband, not knowing the guy all that well, set up this system: he told the guy (pointing to it) that this was a desk drawer he rarely opened. They guy had his full permission to open it at any time, and tomorrow my husband would put the money in it. Whenever he was ready to pay it back he could just slip it into the drawer. That way he never had to ask my husband about it and he could pay it back anytime.
The consequences of this was that the guy never asked my husband for money ever again, and whenever anyone else in the office wanted to borrow money my husband would inform them of the system that he had set up with “Joe Blow”- if there wasn’t money in the drawer they could just ask Joe Blow for it.
Even though it cost my husband twenty dollars the system made sure that Joe Blow never asked my husband for another dime, no one else every asked my husband for money after a while, and Joe Blow was harassed by others for money. This resulted while my husband was still seen as the “good guy” and Joe Blow was the “bad guy”.
Eventually Joe Blow stopped asking the office for money. Oh yeah, my husband made sure that the one drawer in his desk he used was always locked.
loading....
In this case, I’d call/ text the friend and let them know that they have 30 days to fulfill their contract. You can ask them if they’d like to work off the loan or go ahead and sell their stuff (get this in writing). In most areas, legally you have to give them the profit. In this case, your friend still owes you $440, because he did $60 worth of work. If you sell the stuff for $800, then he gets the remainder of $360…Technically, you can subtract fees (time and gas/ travel to and from the pawn shop).
I’ve loaned money to friends, but it was with my personal understanding that I may not get paid back. In that case, the loan would be a one time deal. I would never loan money to someone who appears irresponsable with their money as I don’t want to support their irresponsible spending habits. “Irresponsible” meaning that they have no money because they are spending it on the latest technology, fashions, new cars INSTEAD of paying their bills.
Someone who has had a horrible life event, would get my help. Some things can’t be planned for or save enough money up for (cancer treatments are expensive!).
loading....
I sometimes give money to a good friend but i never lend money to anyone. If i give money to someone, I have no expectation of it being returned and therefore there are no hard feelings.
loading....
A tax deduction I think. Post the gun on ebay and see what you are offered. 80% goes to a debt and the rest goes for a spa treat.
loading....
I don’t lend money anymore, and I’ve both lent and borrowed money from family before. The loans are all repaid and everything’s cool, but I think there’s just this uncomfortable dynamic that develops when there’s an unpaid loan with people you know and love. If someone needs money AND it’s a desperate situation, I’ll GIVE them what I can. The rest is up to them.
I think Alexa’s friend is unable to pay the loan back and is ashamed to talk to her. He sounded desperate when he asked for the loan. Maybe he thinks it’ll all go away if he doesn’t talk to her.
I would take the gun in and see how much I could sell it for, and send him a letter telling him I’m selling it. If no response after a couple of months, I would sell it, and try to put it all behind me.
I’m impressed by how her first mind was to say no. Instincts are important.
loading....
Stop contact. It’s not up to you to chase or harass for your money. Assuming he did $60 worth of work, he owes you $420. As a PF blogger, I’m assuming you don’t really need the $420 back immediately and it won’t break the bank. Hang onto the guns for 4-6 months. No contact from him, sell the arms and keep the profit. Nix the friendship after that.
I’ve been in a similar situation. It’s not so much that you need the money back it’s that the situation will keep you awake at night because you feel hurt and betrayed and it raises anxiety levels. You have a right to feel that way.
loading....
This is a toughie, one my husband and I have discussed before. I’ve also discussed this topic with siblings who are at a later stage of life and have had to deal with relatives asking for money.
The wisest advice I’ve been told and that I hope to stick to if I’m ever in this situation is to only give money if you’re okay with never seeing it again. Even if the person promises to pay you back, give it with a mentality that it’s a gift, not a loan. Probably easier said than done
Thanks for this thought-provoking post!
loading....
If you value a friendship, then one of the quickest ways to ruin it is to involve money. I would rather just give the money to the person as a gift (assuming I had the money to give) as opposed to loan it with an expectation of paying it back. In Alexa’s case, I’d give him another week or two and then I’d sell the gun. If the friend gets upset, that’s on him.
loading....
This is a pretty bad dilemma. You are forced to choose between your money or your friendship.If he is a person who belongs to your social circle (like a friend of a friend), then it might be seriously uncomfortable if you happen to run into him again through some other acquaintances. If it’s not so, you can just cut off all contact with him and not be guilty about selling his guns. You know, he broke his contract agreement too and that’s not something a good friend would do without giving you an adequate explanation.
loading....
True. So the situation is: YOU help a “friend” by lending him money. YOU lose the money. YOU have all the trouble of trying to retrieve the money or work equivalent, and as a result YOU are feeling awkward in a company of mutual friends: you are the bad guy for extending a helping hand with the loan!
No loans for friends. Gifts or nothing.
loading....