As some of you might know or remember, I have been considering the purchase of a firearm for some time. Two posts ago I mentioned it while talking about being victim of a robbery, and reader Tyler Karaszewski wrote a cogent and passionate comment that began, “I think it’s sad that so many of our responses to these sorts of events are to (quite literally) begin escalating an arms race.”
My following post was about securing property, and while I purposefully didn’t mention firearms, reader Mark commented, “Protecting stuff is important. Protecting your life, more so. A good pistol or home defense shotgun will handle those protection needs.”
And then we all heard the tragic news from last week.
Mind you, I think a big part of the problem with mass murder in America lies with how our country treats the mentally ill — a public health problem that needs immediate addressing. Mental illness aside, the Internet has heated up in recent days with a furious debate about guns and gun ownership.
This is a personal finance blog, not a politics blog, so I am not trying to discuss gun politics. The question I am trying to address, in the middle of this madness, is if a firearm purchase makes sense. Please note: this is a question or series of questions, not an answer. I don’t have all the answers, and I’d really welcome your feedback on this question.
Where I stand
I’m a gun agnostic — I’m neither pro nor con guns at this juncture in my life. I have considered this purchase as a kind of emergency preparedness, but I am still not certain if it would address my needs.
I’ll admit that being robbed has made me afraid of crime in general, and I’m having a hard time trusting people. I hate that. I am not delusional or paranoid, and I don’t live in expectation of the zombie apocalypse. I have tried to respond to my situation constructively, but trauma has its consequences. Trauma hardens people and makes them overreact. So, how much caution is too much caution? When does caution begin to squelch the life it’s trying to protect?
Perverse results
A perverse result is a type of unintended consequence that produces the opposite result than it was originally intended with a purposeful action. For example, rent control is supposed to help low-income people by keeping rent affordable, but the result is reduced quality and quantity of housing overall. If you don’t believe me, try finding an affordable, well-kept apartment in Manhattan.
Regarding guns for home defense, the potential for perverse results is evident. First, if a criminal knows you keep guns at home, that makes your home a more attractive target while you are away because illegal guns have a high street value. Second, perverse results may arise from misuse.
The mother of the Newtown gunman reportedly collected guns in order to “prepare for the worst,” which she expected to be a social collapse as a result of a financial meltdown. And then the worst happened — the social order didn’t break down, but her mentally ill son got access to her gun collection, shot her and went on a killing rampage.
Lies, damn lies, and statistics
I am not saying that perverse results are the scenario for every gun owner.
There are over 300 million guns in use in the United States, and something between 40 to 45 percent of households have at least one gun. That’s the highest per-capita gun ownership in the world. Far and wide, most gun owners are serious responsible people. Still, we have a lot of gun-related crime.
Last year in the U.S. there were 8,583 murders with a firearm, out of 12,664 total murders. That’s a lot of murders no matter how you slice it. Even when you account for population, the U.S. murder rate is pretty high, about 4.4 per 100,000 people in 2009, slightly higher than Yemen at 4.2. Germany had 0.9 and Japan 0.4. You can do your own comparisons here.
At the same time, though, there are surveys that estimate anything from 100,000 to 2.5 million defensive uses of guns each year. By that account, guns would seem to have an overall positive effect: Hundreds of thousands of life-saving incidents beat 30,000 gun-related deaths, yes? (I’m adding the 8,583 murders plus the over-50 percent suicides in gun-related deaths).
However, the Harvard School of Public Health refutes the claims of self-defense and suggests that guns “are used far more often to frighten and intimidate than they are used in self-defense.” What this seems to mean is that the people who report self-defense scenarios are actually not engaging in self-defense but something else.
The strange contradiction, however, is that contrary to international comparisons, within the U.S., the states with more gun restrictions seem to have the highest crime rates. I don’t know how to explain this. I could speculate that it’s safest when nobody has weapons, but once you open the door to guns it’s safest when everyone is armed — it’s like the mutually assured destruction theory that (so far) has prevented nuclear war. But that’s just speculation, and I have no proof.
Supply, demand, and consumerism
Let’s face it, we live in a culture of excess. J.D. wrote in one of his last posts here about how retailers manipulate consumers.
While there may be a case for gun ownership for self-defense, the recent crime in Connecticut seems to stem from overdoing things: The mother of the Newtown shooter had two semi-automatic pistols, a shotgun, and a semi-automatic assault rifle. Perhaps it’s not my or anybody’s place to say what’s enough for me and you and everyone we know, but I have to ask: Who needs an assault rifle for self-defense, besides the armed guards who protect nuclear reactors?
Guns are big business. There are cheap guns out there, but a good handgun will cost you anything upwards of $500. That’s not counting ammunition, storage and locks, range memberships, classes, accessories, and more. My own research zeroed in on a .357 Magnum revolver that sells for $700 new. Adding up accessories, training, and the like, I would easily accrue upwards of $2,000 in gun expenses.
Add up all 300,000,000 guns in circulation, give them an average value of $500 each, that’s $150 billion dollars. There are about 8 million guns produced each year, with Americans buying 4.5 million. And the more we fear each other, the more guns we buy. While gun ownership in general is in decline, gun owners are acquiring more weapons. That’s a lot of incentive to induce people to prepare for the apocalypse.
My conclusions
By their very nature, guns raise the stakes of any human interaction; a domestic dispute becomes a murder, or a mugging where you stand to lose your wallet becomes a shootout where you stand to lose your life. At the same time, studies show that the majority of recent mass murders have occurred in places where guns were banned, which rendered the victims defenseless. And if that’s true, then that’s another kind of perverse result.
Frankly, I don’t know how to balance these two notions in my own life.
At this point, it seems to me that guns are a high-risk purchase that might increase my family’s risk of death rather than reduce it. Yes, guns may save you in some scenarios, but they might also end up hurting you or your loved ones. Which one is more likely? I can’t make enough sense of the figures to establish a risk/reward ratio, and in doubt, I abstain.
What’s your take? Does gun ownership make sense to you in your circumstances? Have you ever been in a situation where guns have either protected you or endangered you? While the Internet is aflame with heated discussions, I trust that GRS readers will honor their customary good sense in this debate.
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First let me say that I have NOT read any of the comments so I’m not sure what others have said.
I have a question about the gun violence data, when we get statistics on the US related to other countries, I only ever see comparisons to countries that do not allow their citizens own weapons. Where is the the comparison to the countries that do allow citizens to own guns. I’d like to see if we have a better rating in that aspect. Because comparing the US to a country that has STRICT gun control, or No Guns allowed is not an accurate comparison.
According the the UN stats that El Nerdo included, Venezuela, Trinidad and Tobago, South Africa, St. Lucia, Lithuania, and Estonia (to name a few) have much higher rates of intentional Homicide than the US.
I know, I know, this is being used to try to force us to eliminate the 2nd amendment – which many people think is a good idea…but we do have the 2nd amendment, and should be compared to countries where citizens are allowed to own guns…not those where they are not.
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Have a look at Switzerland, the government issues assault rifles (Sig-550) to most males at age 20. They have the forth highest rate of gun-ownership per 100 population, at a rate roughly half that of the USA.
Swiss homicide rate is ~.70 per 100,000 population.
USA homicide rate is ~4.8 per 100,000 population.
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Yes we have a higher rate than Switzerland…but not the dozens of other countries that have much (much) higher rates…
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El-Nerdo the article was timely for me because I also have been debating getting a gun for several years now, most seriously recently, prior to last Friday. The vast majority of people I know who own guns do so responsibly and use proper gun safety, without incident. The only reason I would want a gun is for home defense, I think because if I needed one, the last thing I would want going through my mind is that a scenario would have turned out differently if I had a gun. The problem is if I had a gun it probably would be locked up and I’m not sure how much reaction time I would even have. I personally would prefer not to bother with the gun due to the financial aspects and would prefer not to have one in the house. Although I have shot many guns as family members own a lot. At the end of the day at some point I probably will get one because I don’t want to regret not having one if I need it, I just don’t know when.
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I enjoyed the article. I very much considered personal finance perspectives when I bought my first handgun. I considered how much it costs to drive to the shooting range, and how much it would cost for ammunition.
It is very difficult to measure the non-monetary costs of gun ownership. But my internal sense was that it was something like owning a pet. When you own a gun, you become responsible for it from that point forward. I bought a lock-box well before I bought the gun.
That, by the way, is the mistake the mother in Newtown made, not having too many guns. She was responsible for those guns, and more-so because she had a family member with mental problems (and that would hardly have been a secret to her).
Studies of gun violence are very very hard to decipher. You linked to one that stated you are much more likely to be shot in an assault if you have a gun (which I’m not sure you fairly described as a mugging where you might lose your wallet). Other studies suggest you are more likely to be killed by someone you know, but if you dig into the details it turns out you are in fact more likely to be killed by a criminal you know. A lot of shootings are actually criminal on criminal assaults. That puts a very different context on the Philadelphia study.
From a PF perspective, I’d say your interest in a .357 revolver makes sense. Ammunition is an ongoing cost, and sticking to .357, .38, 9mm, and .22lr is going to the most cost effective. I’ll even offer an endorsement for a GP-100. It’s a very good quality revolver, and a little less expensive than a Smith and Wesson (probably the other most obvious quality brand). You’ll already know you can shoot either .357 or 38 from it.
In a similar vein, if you ever find an interest in long guns or hunting, you’ll find the most economical are probably .223, .243, .30-30, and .308 for rifles and 12ga or 20ga for shotguns. It just makes sense to stick with popular common calibers.
One of the best ways to improve your skill and save money at the same time is to dry-fire, and I would estimate that dry-firing the double action trigger of a revolver has probably done more to improve my trigger control than any other practice.
Dry fire is completely free, but not completely without danger. One of the most common causes of negligent discharges is firing a gun when you thought it was empty. I recommend these directions (and the whole site really) to all new shooters, male or female:
http://www.corneredcat.com/article/practice-time/dry-fire-safety/
You may also consider the advantage of owning a second .22lr handgun (like an SP-101 or an LCR) for even cheaper practice. It makes two guns you have to be responsible for, but many people find advantage in having both.
Guns are inherently dangerous, like table saws, cars, motorcycles, lawn mowers and numerous other things. They also have costs, monetary and non-monetary, which are balanced by fun and in some cases real (sometimes essential) function.
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It may be because I’m a Canadian, but I find a post about buying guns so soon after the slaughter of 20 little kids to be incredibly obscene. When the world looks at you, this is what we see.
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It’s part of the discussion on the table. I think that a post written by Americans, for Americans is extremely appropriate. Those of us south of your border are choosing to take on this difficult conversation NOW instead of waiting for the dust to settle because NOW is the time to address this. NOW is the time to decide where liberty intersects with safety and to chose the best path for all Americans. I applaud the author.
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I don’t think you’d find many Canadians disagreeing with you there, actually. Americans should be talking about gun politics/gun control.
In fact, they should have had this conversation a lot earlier — and they also need to discuss mental health issues and media sensationalism. (I don’t think this is just a gun control issue — it’s more complicated than that.)
But that’s not what this post was originally supposed to be about, so you can see why we’re a little confused
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http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf
Read this then have the debate
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I think the article has great timing, and you can discuss the economics of gun ownership & use without getting into the politics.
However, the first thing to consider is that *every one* of the people who went on a sudden murderous rampage (whether or not guns were involved) has been on psychiatric drugs. We’re waiting to see whether the Newtown guy was, but he most likely was. For a huge catalog of prescrption-drug induced violence see: http://ssristories.com/ The national gun debate should take second seat to a debate on prescription psych drugs which have a known side effect of inducing violence.
Since there are a few recent events on everyone’s mind, and we’re comparing cost vs. benefit of being able to defend yourself offset by the possibility of suddenly deciding to kill everyone around you just because you now have a gun, let’s have a look at how different shooting events have turned out.
Everyone’s familiar with the recent tragedy in Newtown. We know CT allows people to get licensed and to carry concealed firearms for self defense, but I haven’t been able to find out whether that school or town had rules prohibiting firearms at the elementary school. So nobody there was able to defend themselves or the children.
Compare that with the event at the mall in Oregon — a criminal went there to shoot as many people as possible, but a private citizen who was licensed to carry a handgun for self-defense was also there. The badguy shot a couple people, then turned around and saw the citizen pointing a gun at him and decided to shoot himself before the good guy could shoot him. (The good guy was waiting for a clear shot to avoid hitting innocent bystanders.)
Also, compare the outcomes at Aurora, CO with that at Colorado Springs, CO. Aurora has a local ordinance prohibiting guns in theaters, and so the nutjob who attacked the theater was able to kill a massive number of people without anyone being able to shoot back. In contrast, at the church in Colorado Springs the killer shot a couple people in the parking lot, went inside, and was promptly shot & stopped by an armed woman in self-defense.
Also: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/man-attempts-to-open-fire-on-crowd-at-movie-theater-armed-off-duty-sheriffs-deputy-drops-him-with-one-bullet/
and: http://www.soopermexican.com/2012/12/17/wyoming-woman-scares-off-gunman-with-her-own-firearm-at-nail-salon/
Regarding self-defense, only you know your mindset; Are you prone to flying into a rage and beating your loved ones? Do you or does someone in your household use SSRIs? If so, arming yourself is a bad idea. If not, and you take this seriously, then you’re probably OK keeping a gun around. Put it in a holster and keep it on your person, or put it in a quick-access gun safe.
If you’ve never shot a firearm recreationally, you should give it a try. It is true that firearms are used millions of times more frequently for self-defense than for crimes, and they are used even more frequently for recreation than self-defense. Competitive shooting can be as fun, competitive, and challenging as golf, or as relaxing as yoga. The same can be said for hunting, and there’s even a movement among urban hipsters to hunt as the most natural & humane source of meat.
On to the subjects of what to buy:
A .357 isn’t an optimal choice, because magnum rounds are extremely loud. If fired in a house or hallway, you will be deafened for quite a while. On the other hand, you can practice shooting with .38 Specials, which are cheaper and quieter.
Standard advice is to start with a .22 Long Rifle handgun, either revolver or semi-automatic, which will be cheap (both the firearm and the ammo) and easy to shoot, which will allow you much practice in order to build competency and familiarity.
Then get a centerfire handgun similar to the .22 you’ve been shooting. Many manufacturers make .22 versions or conversions of centerfire handguns, Such as the Smith and Wesson M&P series of handguns. This makes it easy and inexpensive to train more frequently.
And since you mentioned training – it is a very good idea to get professional training in armed self-defense. Any good training will have classroom sessions addressing the psychological and legal aspects of shooting a criminal in self-defense.
Finally, compare violent crime rates & trends overall between the U.S, the UK, and Australia. In the U.S., as gun ownership has skyrocketed and as more and more states allow more and more people to carry concealed firearms, violent crime has dropped over the last few decades (with the exceptions you mention where gun control is still strong). In contrast, the UK has had ever-stronger prohibitions on gun ownership, and violent crime has been skyrocketing. Ditto in Australia.
In the U.S. at least, more guns equals less crime.
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I think the kind of control we need is ammo and assault rifles.
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You should find an engineer, or a friend that is very “DIY.” Have him walk around your house with you and come up with way to fortify your storage units and entry points. There is film that can be applied to windows that make them so tough that even a hammer may not gain entry through them (thought it will crack the glass). Fortified doors are expensive compared to the bargain basement doors, but can be repaid if your insurance recognizes them. These are just examples which don’t add up to $2000 dollars. Then add in legal liability in the event you do use your gun and you’ll find the best home defense is one that doesn’t revolve around chemical explosives pushing a projectile out of a metal tube being pointed by someone with shaky hands.
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First of all, don’t be too hard on yourself for being paranoid or afraid after being the victim of a crime. Our house has been broken into twice in the last 3+ years – no one was home either time, thank goodness. But it changes you. It takes away your trust. It makes you scared and paranoid. For a while. You still might be paranoid but later you become stronger – hopefully. We did. But it did change me. I don’t do things the same way I did. I have made many changes to protect myself and my assets. I do have a gun. I hope I never need it but it makes me feel a bit better knowing it’s there.
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One financial aspect of gun ownership is the meat that can be brought home from killing an animal. If you hunt a deer and get 60 pounds of meat, which you would have to buy at about $20/pound, you would essentially get $1,200 worth of venison. A decent hunting rifle, scope, hunting license could be had for about half of that amount. The gun will last long enough to pass down to kids/grandkids and every year your return on the meat you bring home increases.
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Yesterday’s proposal of an article on “Christmas: Thanks, but no thanks”—wasn’t edgy or controversial enough for ya, I see. Ha! The mental chess game of utilitarian economics and behavior vs. psychological repair and security is actually fascinating. You were violated on every level, you went into hyper– sugar high– protective mode to secure the priceless possibility of human loss, you are now in the contemplation phase, and soon will conclude.
Given an alternate universe, if you owned a secure home, in a safe and patrolled neighborhood, outfitted with a top of the line alarm system, and a “safe room” (hey, may as well dream big in your dreams) big enough to secure your valuables and family in the event of an emergency—you, Nerdo, wouldn’t even contemplate gun ownership.
But, since you have lost a sense of security for yourself and your priceless wife and you don’t currently have the means to buy into a suburban gated community and hire a contractor to construct a safe room….and you don’t want a dog, I think you should buy a pellet or good quality automatic assault style paintball gun (damn things have a painful sting, I KNOW!—and love them)— and continue to logically and methodically move forward– out of this dark spot that you have been put in by the acts of an irrational criminal. Life is dangerous; you can only protect yourself so much. I will never recognize the drunk driver or emotionally disturbed shopper behind me or any number of crazy scenarios. I, personally, move forward knowing, in some sense, that I’m already dead— and appreciate the reality that I’m not.
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I’m not going to add further to the debate, but I disagree that this is a bad time to discuss the pros and cons of gun ownership. After all as seen by gun sales many other people are going through the same thought processes. I did not read that el nerdo was some how left leaning or political in her column. On the contrary the writer is trying to sort out the mixture of feelings one goes through when contemplating something like this, I’m going through the same thoughts. In my case, I already have a dog (warning system and deterrent besides being loving companion) and next to the bed a metal bat and a hatchet. I would not go the gun route, because it is a big commitment. In addition to the costs, one has to think of the safe or other means of securing the gun, and the time and cost for practice. It’s not a hobby I’m interested in pursuing for the remote chance I may need it, so I would need to think of other options to increase the safety of me and my family (things other people mentioned, also self-defense classes). OTOH if zombie apocolaypse were to come true then the risk/benefit ratio would change and I would consider it.
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This was a Trojan horse of a post. I expected an analysis that compared defense of property with a gun vs. other options, such as a dog or alarm system. It might have looked into other factors such as what gun ownership does to your insurance costs. Like many posts on this blog, it might not have been relevant to me, but i could have learned something. But no, it was personal musings and rehashed statistics about gun control. I can read more authoritative and less skewed analyses about this issue elsewhere, and will. It is quite clear that the writer already knows where he stands politically on gun control. The poor taste of slipping personal opinion masked as analysis and personal debate into a blog dedicated to another topic is sufficient reason for me to cancel my subscription to this blog.
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Yes, this. I like Madeleine’s proposed article idea, and this is how I thought the article would go.
As it is, I think this is just a clumsy way to get readership up. It also underscores that JD is no longer involved with the site – I doubt he’d ever have published this article, at least not as it is.
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If you’re female, and inclined to buy a gun, I highly recommend the Springfield XD 45. This is not a recreational toy, but intended to inflict serious bodily harm-most likely death-upon the person it’s used. Trap shooting or recreational shooting is not the same as owning a gun for personal protection. I’ve been shooting many times with my son, who’s in the Air Force, and after observing my shooting style and doing a lot of research, this is the gun he recommended I buy. Do I enjoy owning it? No. Do I sleep better at night knowing it’s in my night stand? Maybe. The world is a different place these days. You have to do what you personally feel is best.
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Yeah, the topic was poorly framed, but why are Americans so anxious about talking about guns? When people die in hurricanes we talk about emergency response strategies. When people die in plane crashes we talk about air safety etc etc. It’s a conversation that has to happen and there’s no better time than right now.
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Hooray for Shari! Agree with u totally: a dog (any dog) is a much better form of personal and home defense than a gun. Even little dogs are great for their bark factor.
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Since you started this out as “a question or a series of questions”, I’ll throw out two random comments for consideration.
1. Sometimes, shooting a firearm is a form of entertainment. There are many professionally managed gun ranges, and many people who while away afternoons there. It’s fun. Some people attend football games, other people go shooting. So first, you need to open up your thinking beyond home defense as a reason to purchase a firearm.
2. Sometimes, there are other things besides muggers and burglars. I live in a South Louisiana swamp, and I keep firearms. Occasionally, there are alligators. There are coyotes. And firearms are really handy when poisonous snakes take up residence beside the garage, because I am a little too old and stiff to wield a shovel efficiently. So you need to consider, too, that whether you need a firearm is partly a function of WHERE you live. Not every place in this huge country is a suburb. Most proponents of gun control do not seem to understand this.
This was a good post, and I enjoyed reading it. Thanks !
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Let’s not talk about the economics of gun ownership. Let’s talk about the economics of RESPONSIBLE gun ownership. This means practice, training, practice, reliable supplies, practice, safe storage, and practice. In case that wasn’t clear, responsible gun ownership involves a lot of time at the range and in classes.
1) First of all, try before you buy. Don’t purchase the first gun you touch. Many ranges and local sporting clubs and NRA groups offer intro to firearms classes where certified instructors introduce students to a variety of firearms. These classes should cost under $100 and will teach basics of safety and operation in addition to giving you a chance to shoot different models. I recommend attending one before seriously considering any first gun purchase.
2) The cost of a dependable gun will probably be between $300-900 for a handgun. Worrying about the initial cost of a gun is like worrying about the $75 adoption fee from your local animal shelter, when care and feeding will cost many times that in just the first year. As for RESPONSIBLE gun ownership, it’s the supplies (ammo, cleaning) and fees (range fees, training) that make up the bulk of the costs involved.
3) Now that you have a gun, you’ll need basic supplies. First, you need a small but reliable home safe, bolted to the floor or wall of your room (cheap safes can be bumped to disengage their locks, but this is a non-issue if they’re bolted straight to a sturdy floor). If you have kids in the house and need the gun close by but secured at night, there are models that resist bumps and can be chained to your bed. When you’re outside of the house, move the gun to the bolted-down safe. (Is this a hassle? Welcome to RESPONSIBLE gun ownership. We’re just getting started.) Small safes like this cost $100-500. Large stand-up safes for rifles and shotguns cost thousands.
Still on basic supplies, you need a cleaning kit. Under $50 will get the parts and supplies necessary to start, with some recurring fees like cleaning patches and cleaning/lubrication fluid over time.
Lastly, ammo. To start, buy “practice” ammo from a reliable manufacturer like Remington, Winchester, or Federal. Other brands can/might be fine, but stay with the tried and true to start. For 9mm, you can buy in bulk for about $0.25/round. For 45, double that. For .22LR, it’s a few pennies per round.
Eyes and ears: you need earbuds or earmuffs intended for shooting sports to protect your hearing, and ballistic safety glasses to protect your eyes from flying casings, debris, etc. Cheap earplugs are under a dollar a pair in bulk, and fancy electronic muffs start at around $100-200. Safety glasses go from basic $5 pairs from home depot to prescription safety glasses from niche companies like Rudy Project.
4) Training: Especially if it’s your first time firing any gun, do it with a reputable instructor in your area at a class. Private classes and group classes will probably cost a few hundred dollars for a half day, and should include some class time as well as range time. At least a few times a year and more often early on, take structured training classes to shore up your skills and work on weak areas. Definitely try different instructors to see who’s teaching style fits you, and consider a concealed carry course to learn about avoiding and de-escalating tense situations and conflicts, how to react if bullets start flying (whether you have a gun or not), etc. These skills are useful even if you don’t have a gun, and even if you don’t plan on carrying concealed. You don’t have to sign the papers, but take the class.
Are classes too boring and expensive? Welcome to RESPONSIBLE gun ownership.
5) Lastly and most importantly, practice, practice, practice. This involves using a LOT of ammo, and other supplies such as targets and cleaning gear. This involves range fees. Perhaps most importantly, this involves a ton of time spent seriously trying to improve speed and accuracy. If you send a hundred rounds through your gun and leave it in your safe for a year without touching it, you will not be competent with your gun in a tense situation, and that is not RESPONSIBLE gun ownership.
In short, RESPONSIBLE gun ownership involves thousands of dollars in the first year, and $500-1000 annually thereafter for training, practice, fees, and supplies. It involves dozens (or hundreds) of hours making sure you are competent and stay competent with the safe and effective handling of the firearm. If you get a gun, be responsible, be safe, and have fun.
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Heh, I didn’t see your comment, but covered a lot of the same ground below. Well done!
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Thank you for this post. I never plan on owning a gun, but I found this very informative. Since guns are a part of American life (like it or not), I think it is important to discuss all the aspects of responsible gun ownership and how much they cost.
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I grew up in a house with at least forty guns, all owned by my dad, all locked up and inaccessible to us children. Dad is a big hunter and collects and sells guns at gun shows every month too. If we as kids were interested in guns more, Dad would take us to a shooting range and teach us how to properly respect guns and use them. He also got us hunter’s safety licenses if we wanted to know more. Last year, as an adult living on my own my place got robbed twice in ten days. I was terrified and so so angry. I started talking to my dad about owning a gun. He wasn’t against the idea, but told me that I needed to be properly trained, investigate which gun to buy and how to store it. On top of that, he told me that he wouldn’t recommend ANYONE get a gun for safety, self- and property-protection UNLESS they were willing to kill the intruder and not just harm them. And they had to not only be willing to kill the intruder, but deal with the negative press/legal battles that could ensue. At first, I felt angry enough to think I would kill an intruder but after a few months I realized I would not want to kill anyone, even a dangerous criminal threatening my family. Luckily, in those months of anger I did not buy a gun. I am still a pro-gun person having grown up in a house that did the 2nd Amendment right, but I still don’t think guns are a light issue and something everyone should own for protection or otherwise.
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I think it is plain wrong to believe that engaging in an arms race increases safety, or that “100,000 to 2.5 million defensive uses of guns each year” equals “Hundreds of thousands of life-saving incidents”.
In fact, if you are threatened by a robber, it seems the best way to raise the odds someone gets hurt is to pull out a gun and point back. In addition, as we see again and again, having guns at home results in accidents where kids get hold of a gun, a mentally unstable get hold of the gun, or someone in the household gets spooked and shoots the teenager sneaking in late at night, and so on.
It is glaringly obvious, in my eyes, that the risks of gun ownership by far outweighs any positive effects it might have.
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Here’s an apolitical financial statement on guns: the prices are going to go up in the near term. I went to a show before the election and one after and all the prices were up based on the IDEA that Obama was going to enact some sort of gun-related legislation. It was also packed, as demand for guns has skyrocketed. Now consider recent events. The effects on the market will be to further drive prices and demand up.
Now those are just the hardware costs and obviously there are lots of other costs to factor as well. It’s a lot like buying and owning a car. Used will always be cheaper. Maintenance, licensing, lessons, legal fees, etc. all factor in. Know what you are getting into.
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And here I am reading the comments…
Yeah, what John said. Don’t try to buy a scary black gun or any parts for it, many stores are seriously jacking up the prices. Basically, look at the Wikipedia entry for the 1994 assault weapon ban. If a firearm you want is on that list, I’d suggest picking another. If they aren’t banned, and you still want one, used ones will be available cheap in a year or two.
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My family is pro gun. With personal experience of 3 generations there have been no accidental injuries nor any human killings. To have a firearm is a personal choice. Weight whatever information you want and then be thankful you still have the choice.
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I don’t think enough emphasis has been placed on some of the actual costs of planning to use a gun for self defense.
Gun self defense is a martial art and like any, you must practice it frequently to be able to use it under stress conditions. You also need experience dealing with adrenalized thinking and reflexes, which are very different from normal process. Most people freeze on attack, you have to train to do something else.
Don’t discount the emotional cost. Have you pondered your willingness to kill another human being, even if in defense of self or family?
Remember to up your liability insurance (most home owner’s policies include at least some liability insurance). If you injure an intruder, will he sue you for lifetime damages due to his inability to work? Or maybe his surviving children will sue for loss of a parent.
Make contact with a good local criminal defense attorney. It’s better to know somebody ahead of time than add another item to the list during the stressful post-incident time. In some circles the truism is that each bullet costs $100,000, which you will pay to the criminal defense attorney or the intruder’s family.
And let’s not forget familiarizing yourself with the legal limits on your choices. Do you live in a castle doctrine state? If not, you can’t shoot to defend property-only persons. What are the laws where you are, and how have previous cases been decided?
Of course a gun safe, or even more than one, might be necessary. You might decide on a large fireproof gun safe for ammo and longarms, plus a small safe that operates with a few finger punches on buttons, fixed to the wall next to the bed for easy access in the night.
If you’re practicing your gun and self defense skills (not the same thing at all, you can shoot a target great but you also have to practice defensive gun use) then you’re (a) paying for range time, (b) paying for self defense classes, and (c) paying to replace used ammunition on a regular basis. There’s a time cost to all this, too-this is now your major hobby in terms of time and money.
Are you going to carry a handgun on your person either at home or when away from home? If so, repeat the legal research with an emphasis on concealed carry in your area and add research on clothing, holsters, and other carry considerations.
I think these elements are the bare minimum to consider before deciding to purchase a gun to use for self defense.
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Finally! Too often inexperienced and unprepared gun owners believe a criminal will immediately stop their criminal behavior and comply to the wishes of the gun owner at the sight of a brandished pistol. More than likely the criminal will take the pistol and use it on the inexperienced gun owner. As Kai Jones stated gun owners must be practiced, experienced with the weapon of choice, and prepared to use it. Being prepared to use it does not mean just pointing it either. Being prepared to use it in defense of your life when no other options exist means pulling the trigger with intent to kill. Regardless of whether you are legally right or wrong in wounding or killing the other person you will pay and pay and pay attorney fees, court costs, etc. So does gun ownership belong in personal finance? You bet it does. It costs to purchase, maintain your weapon and your skills, purchase practice rounds and membership at a range, keep an attorney on retainer, and an extra savings fund that costs more than a really nice Mercedes Benz in case you pull the trigger one day. So if your original question is truly about personal finance, then weigh the costs of responsible gun ownership against the value of the items stolen.
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I’ve read this nice blog for some time and have enjoyed it greatly. The post today has nothing to do with finances and is inappropriate. Please stick to the topic of this blog.
PW
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It seems that blaming this tragedy on the state of mental healthcare in the U.S. is the cool thing to do. Hey, you come off as informed about the state of healthcare in the U.S. AND you avoid alienating anyone by supporting more (or less) gun control! I’m sick of it. I’m not denying that there might be a problem, but linking to “I am Adam Lanza’s Mother” is cheap. No one has a complete picture of Adam Lanza yet. No one knows what kind of help he received. Show me some proof that access to mental healthcare significantly decreases violent crime instead of basing your entire opinion on an article written by a mother of a son whose mental illness may be nothing like that of mass murderers.
What do we know?
1.) Mental healthcare is expensive. But even if it were available for a low cost, would the mentally ill (and especially those prone to violence) take advantage of it?
2.) Gun Control DOES work in decreasing violent crime. Look at places like Japan and Australia.
I am not saying that gun control is the solution and mental healthcare in this country is not a problem. Just that the argument that access to mental healthcare is the biggest factor in mass murders doesn’t hold water.
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Bingo, Sarah. It is socially acceptable to criticize the mental health treatment community, because it doesn’t offend the large majority of people in this country who are pro-gun. But the reality is that gun control is a larger factor than mental health treatment in preventing mass murder. It is often impossible for even the most trained of professionals to recognize who is going to commit suicide or murder and who isn’t. Based on his socio-economic status, it is highly likely Lanza was getting proper treatment anyway. Yes, we can certainly use this tragedy as an opportunity to look at our mental health safety net, but we are entirely missing mark if we don’t also examine the easy access to guns in this country and the lack of safety regulations. Why don’t we have inspectors who routinely go to the homes of gun owners and be sure they are properly stored? We have inspectors for all kinds of things that are far less dangerous than guns.
There was a mentally disturbed person in China who went into a school just this week and stabbed dozens of children. None of them died. What was the difference here? He didn’t have access to a gun.
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Jane:
The Twin Towers in New York were destroyed, and over 2,000 people were killed. The terrorists responsible for it used BOX CUTTERS, not guns.
If a criminal really wants to kill a bunch of people, he can use tools other than guns. If that mentally disturbed person in China had *wanted* to kill as many people as he could, he would have chosen a different method, such as plowing into them with a car, or using a homemade bomb (easy to do). He could have easily done it without any gun at all.
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Maybe it is a growing up in the West thing, but as soon as someone starts to or threatens to injure or kill me or mine, s/he loses all claim to the title of human being and I will have no problems shooting to kill.
I would have an issue with killing a rabid dog, but wouldn’t hesitate if it was attacking. Same thing. But at least the dog would not be doing anything out of malice.
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El Nerdo,
I will start by saying that I am a US Marine Veteran, trained in how to kill people with guns of many types and sizes. I also have dogs and live in a town/city in Texas, yes guns are everywhere here. I also have lots of friends with them. I can say that I am in my forties and am dead accurate in all types of weather day or night lights or not and so are my 4 oldest kids 17 – 13 yrs old.
With that said, I own several types and styles of guns, each having their own purpose in my eyes (and thats what matters when talking about guns). Make sure you weigh your needs for a weapon. Self defense is probably not a good enough reason to buy a gun and keep it in your nightstand after firing it once at a range. The worst person to own a gun is one who does not regularly shoot it. That costs money. I always tell my kids that its an expensive hobby to have that has other benefits. for home defense there are many options but I like the 410 judge revolver that is now offered by several makers. You can load it with several types of ammo from bird shot to Colt 45 regular lead (yes the cowboy type of bullet). For that weapon my gun is loaded in an escalating pattern 5 rounds of bird shot, bird shot, buck shot, 000, and Colt 45.
The pattern is for the following: first two are warning shots, if someone is still coming they get a stinger of buck shot, still coming they get 3 pellets of death in a tight group, still coming they get a 45 slug in the chest. Remember that home defense is to stop an intruder, this can usually be accomplished with the first two rounds and they run away.
I can rest peacefully saying that if someone gets through the two dogs (a German Shep and a gigantic Lab), they are not in my house to say hello.
Some of my friends like the 12 gage effect but also have handguns for backup, I go the other way around. I also have your .357 but that is in the closet safe and goes out with me on Pig Hunting outings. Nothing stops a full grown pig like a .357 mag with hollow points in it.
I must add that the .223 Carbine has its advantages of lots of rounds and ease of loading and I have 2 of them also.
I won’t bore you and everyone else to death on the politics of guns, its a personal decision that some folks make and others never think about it. I will say, get a safe to put them in when your away, keep them out and loaded when your home. Guns don’t kill people, defend your property or protect you if they are not loaded and within reach.
You also need to think about where you would discharge the weapon and where you would not. You have to go over those things way before your confronted with an intruder. Also understand what the laws of the state are, I wouldn’t live in some states because of the laws in place. No one should go to jail for killing an intruder but they do all the time.
Also, if your not mentally ready to kill someone with your gun, do not buy it. I have killed for my country and would kill for my family also. Would you?
The only thing required for evil to exist is for good men to do nothing.
Rob
USMC and proud of it. “Semper Fi”
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>Does gun ownership make sense to you in your circumstances?
Yes.
>Have you ever been in a situation where guns have either protected you or endangered you?
NO!
>
I have been in situtations where I wished I could have reached behind my back at protected the lady I was with.
I’ve felt neutered when I was physically inferior to some bozo that spent all his time lifting weights.
I don’t trust the Gooferment to protect me. Nor I trust thm to restrain themselves from abusing the ordinary citizen.
I think often of the Jews, the Armenians, the Cambodians.
I’d rather go down with a gun in my hand; rather than to just go down.
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Now is the time to talk about this kind of thing. Trust me, those who are waiting for an opportunity to take away our liberties and curtail our freedoms are talking RIGHT NOW. The Second Amendment is in place to protect us from the tyranny of our own government. Look to Europe in the 1920s and 1930s. How did that work out? Little by little it will all be slipping away and an unarmed public is easy to manipulate. The “cost” of giving up our rights to be gun owners will be devastating to this country. Consider to the treaty that United Nations wants to foist upon us to take away our gun rights. There is a lot afoot and if we do not talk about it, no matter how insensitive it might seem, only the bad guys will have the guns, you will have no personal protections and it will be too late.
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“The Second Amendment is in place to protect us from the tyranny of our own government.”
This is an argument for owning anti-aircraft weapons, helicopter gunships, tanks and RPG’s. Its not much of an argument for owning a handgun, shotgun or deer rifle. Or an 1800′s flintlock. Or a semi-automatic AK-47 for that matter.
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“By their very nature, guns raise the stakes of any human interaction;”
George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch captain in Florida, had a gun to “protect himself”. He ended up using it to “defend himself” by killing Trayvon Martin, a kid Zimmerman followed in a car as he was walking home from the store. He then got out of his car armed with his gun to pursue Martin when Martin sought to allude him. He then “defended himself” when Martin jumped his pursuer.
There is an easy argument here. Zimmerman had a gun and is alive. Martin did not, so he is dead. I guess that is an argument for teenagers to arm themselves when walking to the store even in a relatively safe neighborhood.
But the truth is if neither one had a gun, they would very likely both still be alive. And if they both had guns, whoever shot first would be the most likely “winner” and still alive.
So, if you get a gun, you need to be prepared to shoot first. And you need to consider whether you will always make the correct judgment about the danger you are in. Unless you just don’t care if you kill someone, like Trayvon Martin, who is completely innocent.
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I have been reading this blog for many years and have never posted. This post is in VERY poor taste. I’m sure the numbers generated from it will increase ad revenue. I won’t be reading this PF blog again.
Oh, for the record I’m Canadian and the gun violence in the US is staggering by world standards, a semi automatic weapon for fun???
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I began reading personal finance blogs because my bills were controlling my life, I had no financial safety net, and nearly any unexpected expense was a crisis. In other words, I was trying to find a feeling of control and security to replace the constant anxiety and stress my financial state created. It really wasn’t as much about the money as much as my quality of life. I think that for those of us who have made this journey it might make sense to seek help on this question as El Nerdo is doing, for the same reasons.
Being violated by crime, be it robbery, assault or rape, especially if your home is involved, (unfortunately I speak from experience across the board) destroys that sense of security. I suspect El Nerdo is considering gun ownership in the hope that it will offer enough of a sense of protection to restore their home to a place of haven for their family.
Personal finance issues may be more easily disguised as rational topics, but as most bloggers I have read eventually conclude: it’s more a matter of mind than of math. It is still imperative to consider the math, but critical to realize that there is far more to it than that. El Nerdo’s question is the same. He is trying to look at the “math” of gun ownership. He is asking a community that he trusts to help him do this. No one can answer the question for him, but we CAN support one of our own by helping in this way.
My own situation? A dog would probably be the most effective answer in my case (single woman living alone in a very remote area, has been threatened) but not one I consider viable due to my work hours. A monitored system would be nearly useless here, as law enforcement response times can run upward of an hour if they happen to be on the other side of the county. So yes, I do have guns, and given my previous experiences, I don’t think that I would hesitate to use them.
I would guess that El Nerdo (and family) are experiencing a lot of anxiety right now in the aftermath of the robbery. I would venture that those who are crying about his timing have not been in his situation. That feeling of violation is vile and there is a great internal pressure to do something RIGHT AWAY to relieve it. Unfortunately, like reaching financial independence, it takes time. Good luck on your journey, El Nerdo.
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I totally agree about your comment about personal finance being more than math. So many of our purchases are motivated by emotion – and we need to watch that.
I can’t speak for the rest, but I admit I’ve never had my storage locker broken in to like El Nerdo has — but I have been in other situations I won’t discuss here. You never know where people are coming from.
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I apologize in advance if I’m repeating something, I’m purposefully not reading the comments to avoid being dragged into more drama.
I am a gun owner and a licensed concealed carry holder. I chose a 9mm because I’m comfortable with the caliber and it’s cheap to shoot. A box of decent ammo (50) rounds sets me back $15.
Why did I choose to carry? I have had a couple bad experiences in my life, both in the woods and in the cities. When I was younger, my feet, fists, and brains got me out of trouble. However, I have kids and a wife now. Any situation I find myself in is a “stand my ground” situation. I simply wanted the best tool for the job.
I don’t have any illusions of grandeur. I don’t think I’m a “tough guy”. If anything, carrying a firearm makes me more likely to walk away from trouble.
Goodness forbid something serious goes down, but if it does my first response is to get my family to safety. I’m not going to play hero and wait for the shooter or some other nonsense. If the shooter is between my family and the exit, I have the best tool available.
I do have a lot of experience with firearms, so the choice of caliber and type was easy for me. However, as someone new to firearms, you might want to use Google to find a local range, or a NRA pistol course. They’ll have different firearms for you to try out. You may not like it at all–however if my wife is any indication you’ll probably like it a lot. She was staunchly against guns until I brought her to the range.
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Lol, the ‘cost’ of poor timing
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Let me suggest that buying a gun for security is a poor investment. The money would be better spent on deadbolt locks. If you want to be secure on the street, the money is better spent on body armor.
As for training, I think police are a good example. Even with all their training, they sometimes make mistakes in judgment and innocent people die. That goes with the job.
It also goes with carrying a gun for “protection”. If you aren’t prepared to kill innocent people by mistake for your personal protection, don’t buy a gun for to “protect” yourself.
If you are prepared to kill people, then understand that some people will consider you a dangerous sociopath who shouldn’t be allowed to carry a gun. Because the only reason to own a gun for protection is because you imagine yourself killing someone and want to be prepared to do that. Whether you like it or not, that makes you a danger to everyone else.
Of course, some people just imagine themselves threatening other people. They will shoot a “warning shot” and the other person will run away. Or they will show their gun and people will know they are dangerous and back down. They imagine the gun giving them power, rather imagining they will actually kill someone. That may work, until someone calls their bluff. Someone who decides to “protect” themselves with a gun.
For personal protection, body armor is a better investment. For protecting property, buy better locks and sturdier doors and windows. You may own guns as toys for hunting and recreation. But you only carry a gun to threaten and kill people. Most people will never have a situation in their lives where they really need to do either.
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I believe in the right to own and operate a gun. I also believe to purchase a gun in the USA, you should be required to attend at minimum a lecture class on gun safety and operation, and a hands-on class at a shooting range for whatever amount of hours decided.
Why is it that I can go out to buy a gun (lethal weapon) without training yet I have to spend 8 hours in a boat class to operate a boat, or 6 hours of driving to get a permit for a vehicle?
Awareness and training would reduce the amount of mistakes and also train people to use tactics to hopefully prevent a shoot out.
Now there are a lot of illegal weapons sold on the black market. There’s nothing that will stop those criminals, but knowing they are facing a force of citizens that are trained to hit their target, might scare them off at the very least.
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A day later, I just want to thank everybody who contributed to the discussion in a rational and respectful manner. I know this wasn’t easy for everyone.
This wasn’t an opportunistic article at all– it was a deeply heartfelt question born from the horror of a massacre, at the same time that when me and my wife had been considering becoming gun owners.
Before the massacre we thought our course was clear. Afterwards, we looked at each other and asked– what are we about to do? Meanwhile, the accusations started to fly all around on the internet and all manner of rationality was lost from the dialogue.
While my motivations were deeply emotional, I attempted to ask my questions in a rational format.
My core question, I can state more clearly in retrospective, was about economic utility– do self-defense guns truly satisfy a need for protection? Or do unintended consequences negate their function?
There are statistics that tell all manner of stories at the social level, but I was asking about this at the individual level, which is why I see the questions as relevant to personal finance. We make those kinds of evaluations all the time about all sorts of products and services.
Yes, we feel horror, and we feel tremendous sadness, but still we go on making decisions every day, and those decisions have consequences today, tomorrow, and in the long run. Some times we make the worst decisions even with the best intentions, so my hope is that a clear-headed rational approach can help us make good decisions in a crisis.
Your answers have been most illuminating and informative, on both sides of the issue, and I thank you all deeply.
I do not want to say how your comments have influenced my judgment, because I want to remain impartial in the discussion, but I really hope the information you have contributed helps others make these types of evaluations and decisions with greater clarity and mindfulness.
Thank you again.
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I hate guns! it always bring disasters….
People has guns the more likely will suffer from the consequences
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Oy.
First of all, about whether this post relates to PF or not… El Nerdo, when you went off into the stats you began hitting the political issues. If you truly wanted this to stick to the pros and cons of personal gun ownership, you should have stuck to just that – the PERSONAL – how much a gun would cost, the bullets, the training, range fees, etc., and which type of gun and ammo are appropriate for home defense. But, by going to the topic of gun ownership rates/crime rates/gun control you went off the PF rails into the gun debate.
As to personal gun ownership, here is my VERY limited experience:
I was raised in a liberal, generally pacifist family. No guns, ever. Mom wouldn’t even get us toy guns, although I somehow ended up with a blue and white plastic revolver. I’m not sure how that happened. Anyway, from my upbringing I was never interested in owning a gun.
And, about 10-15 years ago something happened that convinced me that owning a gun was not right for me. At the time I had a roommate, who was also a friend, and a man. Having attended a university in a city he was always concerned about safety, so he would always let me know when he got home, and he would always want me to let him when I arrived at a destination safely. I appreciated this.
So, one night, he went out with a bunch of his friends. He got home very late – maybe 2 AM? As was his habit, he stopped by my room to let me know he was home. He was only 1 or 2 steps in from the doorway, and perhaps 15 ft from me. All he said was, “Hi Jen – I’m home now.” I was in such a deep sleep that he scared the bejesus out of me – SERIOUSLY scared me! It wasn’t anything he did – he wasn’t in a menacing position, his tone of voice was normal, and he was a good distance from me. But, I was so startled and so asleep that I was all fear and adrenaline – no rational thought at all and momentary incapable of thinking. In that moment if a loaded gun had been within reach I would have shot him.
Let me repeat that: I would have shot my very good friend.
After a second or two passed I was awake enough to realize what was going on. I was also terrified at how strong my inital reaction had been – that my first impulse would have been to shoot someone.
And it STILL freaks me out.
So, that’s my two cents.
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You have had no training. You were raised to see guns as evil. You are terrified of guns.
You are right. You have no business having one. However, your experience does not generalize to anyone else.
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I grew up playing with guns. They don’t terrify me. But people who carry guns for “protection” do. Because their need/desire to have gun to feel safe means they are frightened and irrational. And the gun makes them extremely dangerous. The combination is an accident waiting to happen that I want kept as far away from me as possible.
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Ross – Odd that you’re terrified of normal people who want to prevent criminals from raping, robbing, or killing them and think they are irrational for doing so… yet you brush off police killing innocent people at random as just something that goes with the job.
Are you unaware that criminals rarely attack uniformed police, and that they almost exclusively attack regular people going about their business? Have you ever looked at crime statistics, or watched a news broadcast where they talk about a violent crime?
What is irrational about evaluating risk and then taking measures to counter that risk? That to me seems to be exceedingly rational behavior, as much as keeping a fire extinguisher in the kitchen, wearing a helmet while riding a bike, or a seat belt while driving.
On the other hand, believing that disarming law-abiding people will cause criminals to be kinder and gentler despite the opposite having happened every time it’s been tried anywhere… that’s irrational.
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“Have you ever looked at crime statistics, or watched a news broadcast where they talk about a violent crime?”
Yes I have looked at crime statistics. In fact I worked for a Crime Prevention agency as a Community Crime Prevention specialist. Most violent crimes are not committed by strangers. But you wouldn’t know that from television.
I am less concerned about cops making mistakes than I am about people who need a gun because they are frightened by what they see on TV. “Normal” people don’t live in fear, even if they watch news broadcasts that encourage them to. “Normal” people don’t need to have the ability to threaten or kill other human beings in order to feel safe. And people who do, probably shouldn’t be allowed to have a gun.
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I wasn’t suggesting my experience applies to everyone. I was only answering El Nerdo’s question, and offering it up as something to consider. And, you’re right – it really speaks to comfort around guns and TRAINING.
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I myself have never held or shot a gun nor have I been in any situation where I have felt I would have needed one. I don’t know if this debate should be over gun control or not, but it seems that there should certainly be stricter laws against how difficult it is to obtain a gun. Should a woman who has a mentally ill son with a history of violent behavior be allowed to own an assault rifle? Should any domestic household be able to own such an intense gun? Its difficult to weed through the “should’s” and everyone has their own opinion, but what is clear is that there needs to be something done.
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Agreed with many of the posts. Poorly chosen article, poor editor’s choices, and does not belong on a PF as written. GRS continues the downhill slide.
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Great article. I think that this perspective needed to be said and I appreciate all of your annotations and links to other sources. It’s important to be backed by facts on this sensitive issue.
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I’ve had a gun pointed at me, and I’m still pro-gun. I was about 15. Walking home from school a group of teenagers pointed one at me and my friend and told us to go another way. So we did.
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Owning 4 or 5 (or more) guns isn’t excessive, especially if you hunt.
I think it’s obvious that a carpenter is going to have multiple saws for different uses, or a mechanic is going to have different sets of wrenches.
As a hunter, I need several guns. For Minnesota, where I hunt, I need a good deer rifle, a waterfowl shot-gun and a small game rifle. If I had money and time to go hunting out west I’d also need a longer-range rifle. Once my kids are old enough to start hunting they’re going to need guns to use too.
Add in a .22s for target practice and you’re starting to have a nice collection. (Note that I haven’t even listed any hand guns for fun or self-defense yet!)
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Anyone else remember when this site was about personal finance and wasn’t cramming the agendas of five different writers down our throats? Honestly, reading this site used to be something I enjoy, now I just find myself visiting out of habit and regretting it almost immediately.
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You pose the question exceptionally well.
I’ll just give you two of my perspectives. One is as the son of Auschwitz survivors, who believes that tyranny flourishes when the people are unarmed. Second is as a homeowner (and, granted, an empty nester), who finds it hard to imagine falling asleep without a gun at my night table.
My wife and I have three loaded pistols scattered around the house and a shotgun in the bedroom. Total cost, about $2000. As far as I’m concerned, priceless.
The real issues, I think, are violent video games, violent movies, the many television programs in which a gun is brandished, and finally the lack of will to identify the mentally unstable.
(By the way, for a beginner a .357 isn’t a good choice.)
Best wishes,
Steve Kohn
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The economics of a gun depend on what you’re going to use it for and what you get for your money. A gun for home defense like a shotgun can also be used to shoot skeet, for example. If you’re ever going to want to take it out for self-defense in the outside world, though, that’s not going to work.
As for what you get for your money, guns are very collectible, so if you wanted a good investment that would at least keep pace with inflation, I’d go for one from the first half of the 20th century. Bolt-action military surplus rifles from WWI and WWII can be quite inexpensive if you don’t insist on an American one; the Soviet “Mosin Nagant” rifle is perhaps the least expensive, with most under $150. As for a concealable, collectible but serious handgun, the Colt Model 1903 is a good candidate, and fun to take to the range, too. (When you see Bogart holding a gun in the movies it’s usually a Model 1903.) I think they’re about $300-$400. I own both, getting them on Gunbroker.com and having a local gun dealer handle the transfer and background check.
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Apologies to all the other commenters but on a subject like this I decided, in the interest of my stress level, to read only the article and not the comments. Certainly I have my own take on this issue but right now I’d like to pass along a couple of decision-making questions I read in a similar discussion a couple of years ago. They are:
1) If a situation were to arise in which yourself, your loved ones, or your property were threatened – the exact situation for which you’d purchased the gun – could you actually bring yourself to use it? And -
2) If you could bring yourself to use that gun could you accept and live with the consequences of your action, ie the injury, maiming, or death of another human being?
I know how I would answer those questions but the important thing here is, how would you?
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Going back to the original post’s theoretical question, should you buy a gun. We seem to have missed the actual example of the gun owner in this last mass killing in Connecticut. That would be the shooter’s mother. She was also the first victim. Her guns didn’t make her safer. In fact, they at least contributed to her being killed.
Unfortunately, that simply underlines the real threat from “criminals”. You are far more likely to be attacked and/or killed by someone you know than you are by a stranger. The most likely threat is from your child, sibling, spouse, parent, friend, neighbor etc. When you own a gun, you are also likely making it easily available to these most likely “criminals”. Of course, like this shooter’s mother, you are unlikely to recognize that threat or act on it until it is too late.
The fact is guns are dangerous. When you bring them into your home you are adding to your danger, not reducing it. For protection and safety, its a lousy investment.
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I am not sure why so many people question timing of this article. If this is not the right time, when is the right time? I thought it was a great article that articulated many of the feelings I have about guns. People must understand that political views rarely change and talking about the politics of an issue usually results in a shouting match. The politics of gun control are at a society/government level. I believe the writer is looking for discussion on a personal level about how to process the pros and cons of gun ownership. It is not his intent to discuss whether there should be changes to the laws, which would include a political debate.
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Perhaps Nerdo can explain what this has to do with his personal decision to own a gun?
“The strange contradiction, however, is that contrary to international comparisons, within the U.S., the states with more gun restrictions seem to have the highest crime rates. I don’t know how to explain this.”
There are political agendas all over this post. For instance, his comment about affordable housing and rent control is similar political nonsense.
He can’t even get his facts straight. He wasn’t “robbed”. He was burglarized. And it wasn’t his home, it was a storage facility. In short, his personal experience had nothing to do with whether he owned a gun. He could have had a whole arsenal in his storage facility and they would have been just one more loss of property.
The personal decision to own a gun for protection really has several simple questions, none of them political. Are you safer with a gun in your home? Are you safer with a gun on your person? What are you willing to kill someone over? How much are you willing to spend? Are there other ways to use those same resources that would make you more safe?
For most people the answer to those questions is that they are safer without the gun. If you are a drug dealer, that may not be true. If you have a protection order against a violent former partner, that might not be true.
Unless you have a very specific threat you are protecting yourself against, you are like Nerdo. He apparently thinks if he had owned a gun his storage locker wouldn’t have been burglarized. Not rationally of course, its purely irrational. Which is true of most of the belief in guns as protection.
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