The problem with financial advisers and anyone who brags about their investments
Published on - January 23rd, 2013 (by Robert Brokamp) This is a post from staff writer Robert Brokamp of The Motley Fool. Robert is a Certified Financial Planner and the adviser for The Motley Fool’s Rule Your Retirement service.
Way back in the ’90s – a primitive time when a mobile phone could only be used to talk to another phone – I was a broker (i.e., salesman) with Prudential Securities. While we all used the title “financial adviser,” the majority of efforts were spent providing investment advice. (Actually, most of my time was spent supporting the other advisers, or at least trying to.) Those who had been around long enough and had enough assets under management could also use the title “vice president”; other firms used “first vice president.” It’s interesting that most branches have several vice presidents, and each firm has thousands – even though having just one vice president is good enough for the entire country.
As far as I can tell, not much has changed with the so-called “full-service” brokerage firms. Most brokers don’t do much cash-flow analysis, debt management, employment benefits evaluation, or anything else that won’t generate a commission or an annual fee of 1 to 2 percent of assets. Most ignore employer-sponsored accounts because they can’t be transferred to the firm.
So most of these folks predominantly provide investment management. Fine. However, there’s no way to know if they’re providing good financial management. The financial adviser may say that his recommendations result in fabulous returns for his clients. He might also say that every morning, unicorns fly out of his butt. Unfortunately, there’s no way to prove either one. Well, at least for the latter, you could have a slumber party and keep an eye on his pajamas. As for the purported fabulous returns, there’s no way he can back up his claims. He’s not going to let you see his clients’ accounts, and he shouldn’t; that would be a violation of privacy. You pretty much have to take his word for it.
He might mention a stock or mutual fund that he claims to have put in his clients’ portfolios, and he may have. But what you won’t hear about are the stocks or funds that didn’t work out so well. Regular, non-adviser folks do this, too. When people I meet at social gatherings find out I work at The Motley Fool, they often bring up their successful investments; they’re not so chatty about the stinkers.
If you want to know how a mutual fund has performed, you can look it up on Morningstar.com or visit the Securities and Exchange Commission website and get legally mandated, audited reports. If you want to know how an adviser performed, you get a brochure, a pitch, and a warm handshake.
Of course, after you’ve hired an adviser, you’ll get quarterly statements and can monitor his performance. Unfortunately, the problem here often lies with the client and the current lack of financial literacy. Many people don’t know enough to properly evaluate an adviser’s performance – what is an appropriate benchmark and how to adjust the comparisons for the amount of risk taken. Or clients just like the adviser enough to trust him, because he’s nice and jovial and sends chocolate during the holidays.
How to evaluate a financial pro
I don’t mean to malign all financial advisers. I know plenty of them and know enough about their investment philosophies and overall financial-planning expertise to feel I can judge the quality of the services they provide. And many are very, very smart, capable and ethical. I certain thought highly of, and had great respect for, the fellows in my group at Prudential. But you have to take my word for it, don’t you? There’s no way to verify my opinion (though I could prove that one of my former partners was much better than I when we competed against each other in high school football).
If I became a financial adviser, I’d pretty much have to do the same things as they do, because there’s no mechanism for tracking the performance of an adviser’s recommendations. At least not now. Perhaps in the future, there could be an adviser transparency index, administered by a third party. The adviser reports their recommendations to the third party, and the third party tracks and reports the performance to the public – but not the actual investments, because that would be giving away the advisers’ secret sauce.
But until then, here are some questions to ask an adviser you’re considering:
How are you paid? The commissions paid for selling financial products vary widely, so there’s always the temptation to provide advice that garners a higher payout. Fee-only advisers who charge by the hour or by the project – such as those at the Garrett Planning Network and NAPFA — have the fewest conflicts of interest, since the amount they are paid is not directly related to the advice they provide. Those who charge an annual fee based on the size of the portfolio have a few more conflicts of interest, but it’s much less conflicted than those who earn their keep through commissions, payments from mutual fund companies or payments from insurance companies. With fee-only advisers, you still have the problem of not knowing how their past investment recommendations fared. But it’s my experience that most of them recommend low-cost, diversified index-based investments, which pulls back the curtain a bit.
Are you a fiduciary? A fiduciary has a much higher legal hurdle than an adviser who only has to meet a “suitability” standard, such as the brokers who work for the big-name firms – Morgan Stanley, Merrill Lynch, UBS, and so on. In fact, brokers have a primary loyalty to the firm, not to the clients.
What services will you provide? Will you receive just investment advice, or will you receive a complete evaluation of your entire financial situation (debt, insurance, estate planning, etc.)?
What are the risks? Any adviser who doesn’t thoroughly explain the risks involved with the investment strategy they recommend isn’t doing his job.
Why should I listen to you? We’ve already established that you can’t verify their claims of investing awesomeness. But you can visit BrokerCheck to see if they’ve had any disputes with clients, and whether they were resolved. Being a Certified Financial Planner (CFP), Chartered Financial Analyst (CFA), Certified Public Accountant (CPA), or other legitimate designation (Certified Warren Buffett Invest-a-like doesn’t count) won’t guarantee competence or ethical behavior, but it does show that the person had to know enough to pass very rigorous exams. Also, these designations come with their own ethical standards and ways to report who has been found wanting.
How can you make such crazy promises? If you hear anything too good to be true – such as a guaranteed 10 percent annual return – then the adviser is hoisting a malodorous red flag.
Not everyone needs the services of a financial adviser. One of the main beliefs at The Motley Fool is that you can do much of it yourself, because much of it is more pocket science than rocket science, and no one cares more about your money than you do. But if you don’t have the time, inclination, or self-discipline to create and stick to a plan, hiring a financial planner could be one of the best things you ever do. Just make sure you get a good one.
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Years ago, I gave a guy with Raymond James a small amount of money to manage to see if a financial adviser would do a better job than me. I wasn’t impressed.
I think that there are great research resources for those who want to manage their own finances, we utilize a lot of the research tools at Fidelity. But, there is always the problem of finding the time to do the research when my regular job (I consider personal finances to my part time job) requires 60+ hours a week.
So, I might work with someone in the future because I don’t have the time to always do the research and management myself but I agree then you have to figure out if the broker/adviser is doing a good job which requires more research.
Its a conundrum, I look forward to hearing about others that do use an adviser and obtain a benefit from doing so.
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Also, if you have a fidelity office near you its great to go in and work with the folks there so they can show you all the research tools. They also have regular seminars on certain investments and investment categories although they tend to be right in the middle of the work day. Mr. Sam has a fidelity office right near his work and he’s gone and gotten training on how to use their online tools and then he trained me so it worked out well. Of course, I haven’t quite figured out how to track whether I’m doing better utilizing their expert strategy tools vs. just picking stocks I like. Always something to learn.
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Good post. There is of course the human nature phenomenon known as agency theory: an agent is supposed to look out for the best interests of his principal, but he doesn’t; he looks out for #1, himself, first. In the case of financial advisers, human nature tells you the adviser will always look out for him(her)self first, and you second. (No matter what they promise.)
Far, far better to acquire a modicum of financial literacy yourself. It’s not rocket science, but there are a few relatively simple things to get to know. The good news is the internet is rife with many, and good, resources, Motley Fool and AAII being two that come to mind off the top of my head.
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I am hesitant to seek out an advisor. I feel I should find one since our wealth is growing but if I lose our money, then I know it is my fault and I have to sleep with my mistakes. If somebody else loses my money, then they may have to sleep with one eye open. I have a hard time giving up control.
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Great article- I like the points raised about explaining the risks involved as well as any investor who “guarantees” a ROI. So many times you hear of horror stories where an investor is simply putting words in someones ear and doing nothing to advise them on what moves to make specific to their financial situation.
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All of my dealings with brokers interested in managing our money have been less than satisfactory. And they all seem so – how can I put this nicely? – young. Maybe it’s my own ageism that keeps me from trusting them.
With our 401k money, we’ve taken the traditional recommended approach of stocks, bonds, small caps, large caps, etc. percentage wise according to our ages. However, with our relatively small personal investments – which I’ve been doing with etrade – I pick my own companies. I’ve been beating our 401k’s returns as well as the market’s, but I do think we’re in a raging bull market right now and am holding off putting more money in the etrade account until the market corrects itself.
Unlike the folks Brokamp meets at cocktail parties, I’m happy to tell you all about my three stinkers, two of which I’m still holding out hope for and the third I’m going to dump if it ever goes up. Maybe if I had more invested in them (right now those three are around $5k total), I wouldn’t be so anxious to talk about them?
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The more personal finance books I read, the less I want to give my money to a financial planner to invest. I think they are great to talk to on a yearly basis for big picture stuff, and I don’t mind hearing their suggestions, but I’d rather do my own research and make my own decisions.
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I agree. I feel as though I would be a better judge of how, where, and when to invest my money than most professionals. Very few warned of the dot-com or housing bubbles. In fact, it seems that they tend to recommend investments when they’re going up! Also, in order to protect against lawsuits, they are all but required to follow a herd mentality. If they make a suggestion that turns sour, it’s fine as long as everyone else was doing it too! It’s a government-created conflict of interest.
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Why would I trust a financial adviser that’s not richer than me? If they’re so good, why would they need to earn money investing other people’s money?
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Because it takes money to make money and unusually high expenses can drain even robust returns. We have a friend who is an excellent investment broker, but he started his investing career in dead-broke poverty with a large family that racked up some HUGE medical bills over the years, not to mention their multiple auto & housing disasters (seriously, the deck has been stacked so badly against them it’s not even funny). So he’s never had a chance to accumulate any money of his own to be ABLE to invest on his own behalf.
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Maybe I’m too stubborn, or cheap, but I would probably never seek out the help of an adviser. Not that I think I can necessarily manage my money better than they can, but I just feel more comfortable making my own investment decisions, and, importantly, I’m able to live with the fact if one of them lost value. If I was paying someone else to manage my money, and it was losing value, I’d probably go crazy!
Then again, my investment “strategy” is pretty bare-bones: dollar-cost-average into blue-chip, dividend-paying stocks, and re-invest the dividends. Pretty basic!
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May I brag that, as an individual investor, I have done very well on my own? Thanks – Just wanted to get that out of the way.
Now, since becoming an investor in the late 90s, I have consulted with many so-called financial planners/advisors/experts with only one question: Will you review my portfolio and tell me your opinion of my investments? Are they good or bad or indifferent? Have I overlapped or duplicated anything? Am I high or low risk for my age?
I have always made it clear from the start that I did not want to switch investments or buy any products from them. Well, maybe I didn’t. Because EVERY consultation concluded with “Here’s a package of the investment products we sell and why you should transfer all yours into ours.” The most recent “free” consultation included a recommendation that I turn over all stocks and mutual funds to him to “manage” for a fee.
I am still looking for that one financial “expert” who will give me just an opinion.
Anyone?
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A fee-only CFP will have no problem with consulting with you and reviewing your portfolio. They just don’t do it for free. The “free” consults are usually done by CFPs who also sell for Amex and other companies, which is how they get paid, by commission.
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I will freely admit that once you get past the “spend less than you earn” part of money, I am completely ignorant. I don’t even know enough to know what I don’t know. Is there a resource (book, website, other?) that gives a super basic beginners guide to this type of investment stuff?
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Read read read. Personal finance, investing, retirement, insurance, etc are all addressed everyday on the “money” or “financial” tab of the home page of your preferred web browser. Check out the Ric Edelman site and listen to his podcasts of his radio show. Dave Ramsey is good to read and listen to if you have a debt problem. The Motley Fool podcasts that are available weekly are a good recap of current business news. At first you won’t understand much or all of what you hear or read, but the more you expose yourself to the language and idea of money and investing the more you’ll absorb and the more comfortable you will become.
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“if you don’t have the time, inclination, or self-discipline to create and stick to a plan, hiring a financial planner could be one of the best things you ever do. Just make sure you get a good one.”
You will need the same self-discipline to stick with the adviser when things go south that you need to stick with your own investment plan.
You are better off putting your time into setting up a Vanguard Account and buying some low cost index funds. Because the risks in choosing an investment adviser just add one additional layer of risks to the risks from choosing your own investments.
Giving in to that inclination to let someone else invest your money can be very costly. You aren’t likely to get Bernie Maddoff, but you are very likely to get someone who collects a large annual fee whose cost compounds over the life of your investments.
The average management fees are in the range or 2%. On $120,000 investment you are paying $2400 per year. That’s $200 per month that you could be investing instead.
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My wife enlisted an adviser from Edward Jones about two years ago. So far, so good.
We agreed to let the adviser manage her tax-deferred investments, while I continue to manage my accounts. I have my 401k and Roth assets with Vanguard, and the adviser likes Vanguard.
All of us have benefitted from rising markets over the past two years. The good news is that the adviser takes a very small fee, and gives us a different perspective from our own.
Our next financial moves involve term insurance renewals and brokerage accounts. Based on the adviser’s track record, I will listen to her suggestions.
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Boy…would definitely pass on you being a client. Knowledge is good and so is trust. Advisors can’t work miracles. I mostly help people avoid mistakes. I Help them plan, and try to beat the bank rates.
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We don’t have a financial advisor or money manager, but my in-laws like their guy. I trust my husband and target date mutual funds more, so that’s what we have to work with right now…
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I read a personal finance book once, I believe it was Millionaire Next Door, that recounted a story of a multi-millionaire who often had advisors courting his riches…he told them to share their personal portfolio and if their returns outpaced his, he would gladly use their services. Not once in many years has anyone took him up on that offer.
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Almost NO financial advisers called the last downturn. After that pathetic performance, I have abandoned financial advisers and make my own decisions. At least I can be wrong for no additional cost.
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Nice article, but it really needs a cat picture.
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I have used financial advisers for specific purposes. First, to get a snapshot of where I was financially and provide some general advice. Other times, to address a specific question. I used fee only, but even they often follow their advice to you with items that provide them more income, so you have to be aware and read the small print of what they provide. Sometimes it fits the bill, other times not, but regardless you have to decide if it’s really right for you, not for the adviser’s pocketbook.
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My husband and I are very lucky, because my BFF is our financial adviser. We’ve known her for twenty years, trust her implicitly, have very similar financial philosophies, get all the paperwork verifying what she does for us, AND she doesn’t charge us anything because she’s just that nice (we’ve offered more than once to pay her). Yay!
PS Is that a unicorn in your PJs or are you just happy to see me?
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Sorry MelodyO,
Your buddy may be a BFF, but you are not. By taking all of her valuable advice and services without compensating her adequately is simply be a user and an exploiter. I hope you have named her in your wills for a sizable bequeathment.
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I’m a Certified Financial Planner and would NEVER work for even my BFF for free. Too much risk, both on the investment side AND the friendship side.
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Knowledge about financial planning is easy to obtain for free at any library. However, time to properly maintain your plan is a bit harder to find, at least for me. Proper financial planning is a full time occupation. I just can’t devote the time and effort to doing it correctly. Sure, when I started out I did everything by myself, with fair or better results, but now I have accumulated a sizable amount of money and I decided I needed professional advice and someone looking out for my investments regularly, so I hired someone. So far, I am happy with the results. Some people may be willing to go it alone, but I figure I don’t set my own broken bones, i don’t butcher my own meat and i don’t build my own car. I hire pros to do the things i am not an expert at. Why not with money?
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“I hire pros to do the things i am not an expert at. Why not with money?”
Do you pay someone to spend it?
“Proper financial planning is a full time occupation.”
No, for most people it isn’t. If you have enough money to pay someone to manage your investments full time, that may be a different story. But even then, you are probably better off putting it in an index fund and leaving it there.
“I decided I needed professional advice and someone looking out for my investments regularly”
Most people don’t. In fact, active management tends to reduce returns rather than increase them.
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Do I pay someone to spend my money? What does that have to do with anything?!? You’re correct that most people do not have the resources or the quantity of wealth to need help, I am lucky enough to have both. I’m not a millionaire by any stretch but I do have a substantial retirement portfolio and “putting it in an index fund” is not viable, logical or productive. Active management can be cost prohibitive according to how the advisor is compensated. I pay my advisor a set amount each year based on the value of my portfolio. If I make money his pay goes up. If i don’t make money his pay does not. He does not receive a commission for trades so he has no incentive to do so unless the trade is lucrative.
I am not saying my situation is for everyone, it’s not. But for some, like me, having professionally managed assets can be helpful. Even Dave Ramesy suggests professional help in asset management. Do you think you’re a better judge of these things than Dave?
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” I’m not a millionaire by any stretch but I do have a substantial retirement portfolio and “putting it in an index fund” is not viable, logical or productive”
If you aren’t a millionaire, that is the only logical or productive investment for your retirement fund. Virtually any other investment will raise your risk or lower your return or, most likely, both.
“I pay my advisor a set amount each year based on the value of my portfolio. If I make money his pay goes up. If I don’t make money his pay does not.”
Nice gig for your adviser. I will make the same offer on bets in Vegas with your money. If I win, I get a percentage of the take. If I lose, I just get my fee. That’s one reason managing other people’s money is such a lucrative business.
“Do you think you’re a better judge of these things than Dave?”
Yes. Dave Ramsey is a celebrity in the finance entertainment business. If you put your money in a index fund and leave it there, you probably don’t watch his show or read his books. Which is how he makes money. He needs yo in the game.
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Are you selling index funds? You certainly sound like it. I have stated several times what I do is not right for everyone. You seem to believe what is right for Ross is the only viable option. It is not.
I went from bankruptcy about 15 years ago to having a comfortable retirement portfolio that will, conservatively, make me a multi-millionaire when I retire in ten or so years. I did this by reading books by Dave Ramsey and Ric Edelman and other award winning authors and financial planners and following that advice, not to mention working hard and advancing myself in my career. So obviously there are alternatives to your Index Funds that do work. That is all I am advocating. What you do may be perfect for you, good luck and much success, but unless you have a magic crystal ball, don’t deign to tell me how to run my finances. I just wanted to make a point about financial planners not receive inferior advice from the peanut gallery. I pay a professional for that kind of advice, thanks anyway.
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Vanguard sells index funds, I buy them.
“So obviously there are alternatives to your Index Funds that do work.”
Of course there are. Some people win at slot machines. There are also people who do quite well for a while and then the odds catch up with them. If you are paying 2% of your winnings in fees, the odds are heavily stacked against you.
We have had the dot-com bubble that made a lot of millionaires and then destroyed them again. We had the housing bubble, where people thought their housing value made them wealthy only to find out it was an illusion.
The deal with active investment is that some people win and others lose. For people with enough money, gambling to win may make sense. They are willing to accept the worst case outcome as the price of having a shot at the best case outcome. But unless they are into the really high risk investment opportunities provided by hedge funds, a money manager is still likely just a drag on returns.
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I don’t have an issue with someone else using a professional for investment planning. After all, it’s their money, and they have to do what they are comfortable with.
But there is something here worth exploring. Most investment planners will tell you that they usually can’t beat the markets and that it is unpredictable. And, if you compare the performace of most actively managed funds to low cost index funds, the low cost index funds usually win out. So the comparison between investment planners and surgeons is not really apt. Investment planners are better than burying the money in your back yard (or stuffing it in your mattress), but probably worse than a low cost index fund, at least most of the time.
When I started to have a sizable amount of money to invest, I first went to an investment planner. After while, I decided to divide my investments in half — those I was managing and those my investment planner was managing. I found that my returns were better, but more importantly, I understood why I was picking certain investments. It’s like the difference between being given an answer to a math problem or being forced to do the work to get to the answer. You won’t know if the answer is right unless you do the work yourself.
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Well, that is a well thought out and clearly explained reason as to why a person may choose not to use a financial planner. Keep in mind however, financial planning is more than just putting money into an investment. There are a myriad of other areas that a financial planner can help with. Things most people never even consider. Such as, budgeting, insurance (life, health, long term care etc), tax planning, estate planning, education planning to name a few. My financial planner helps me with all of this. She understands my goals and helps me with planning for the long term. Most of my money is wrapped up in retirement accounts, and she watches over that. The rest of my money I invest myself. Usually in riskier ventures. This is my gambling money. My financial planner gives me advice in this area too, if i ask for it, which I usually don’t.
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“Such as, budgeting, insurance (life, health, long term care etc), tax planning, estate planning, education planning to name a few.”
There are two problems with this.
The first is the cost of those services if you pay for them as a percentage of your investments. If you have $500,000 in your retirement fund and are paying a money manager 2%, its going to cost you $10,000 per year for whatever services that manager provides. That is expensive advice.
The second, is that the qualifications for providing most of those services have little to do with managing your investments. Yet, you are partially choosing your advice based on that.
You can put your retirement money and other investments in a low cost index fund that will match the market’s returns. Then hire someone based on the services you really need. It will likely be cheaper, much cheaper, and you will get better results by choosing someone with the specific expertise for the advice you need.
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I think investing is a lot like some health screening. Sometimes more information just makes things worse.
Its counter-intuitive and some people will never accept it. But educating yourself in an attempt to improve your returns beyond the market is likely to have the opposite effect.
Hiring someone to manage your money is likely to get you lower returns, even if you don’t consider the cost of paying your manager. When you do consider the cost, you only come out ahead by getting lucky.
That does not mean financial planners serve no purpose. Because many of us have assets where investing them in an index fund is not an option or there are issues beyond the return we get on our investment. We own a house or a business. We need to consider inheritance, taxes and other issues that effect our choices.
But if you are just saving money for retirement or your kids’ college fund, paying someone to manage your investments is almost a sure way to come out behind.
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This post is worthless without cat photos.
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One of the big questions you should ask your financial advisor is ‘do you take wholesaler’ support or receive cash from wholesalers for marketing support? The reason is that most financial advisors sell the products from the very companies who line their pockets with money for seminars and overall marketing support. They may not make more commission to sell that product, but it is a hidden way that advisors take money in exchange to sell products.
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After realizing that my financial planner was not acting in my best interests, but in hers, I pulled all my money out three years ago and started managing it myself. At the time, this was a very terrifying thing to do. Now, I have no regrets.
I have since realized that working financial planners is counter-productive to seeing growth in your investments. Paying 1 to 2 percent to the planner, purchasing A shares for 5 percent, purchasing funds with high expense ratios, and on and on, strip out money that could be invested to make higher returns. My financial planner recommended buying and selling funds; this is also very counter-productive to growth. I had invested money for years, and never felt like I was getting ahead (even in bull markets) because I was making all these mistakes, and paying thousands of dollars every year in fees to investment advisors and to purchase their recommended funds.
I realized that if I talked to 10 financial advisors, I would get 10 different solutions to how I should invest my money, and I didn’t necessarily understand what they were talking about. So I developed my own investment philosophy, which I understand. I feel like my money is growing now, and not just because the stock market is in a bull market. I am collecting dividends, and I am no longer paying the fees to financial planners or fees to purchase funds. This money is all rolling back into my investments. I know I am in good funds, as I define them, and they are funds that I know my financial planner would not have recommended. Financial planners justify their fees by claiming they can make more money for you than you could on your own. That notion doesn’t work for me anymore, because it is very difficult to prove, and because that notion is based on greed and fear.
Another thing I learned is that if you work with an on-line broker designed for the do-it-yourselfer, they provide you with a rich array of tools to learn about investments, and allow you to explore your options. Human help is available, too, if you need it. These options were not available through the financial planner I worked with; they wanted me to rely on the financial planner.
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