Ask the Readers: Can you retire without a pension or 401(k)?
Published on - February 15th, 2013 (by Ellen Cannon) This short reader post from GRS reader A Single Saver caught our eye. A 401(k) or IRA fund seems almost mandatory by personal finance standards, and yet, here a reader writes how her retirement looks good without them. What do you think? Would you be able to provide a retirement for yourself without retirement investment accounts?
Can a single woman retire without a pension or a 401(k)? That was my dilemma. As a contract worker, my job gives me neither of those, and Social Security may not be around in the future.
Making $60,000 to $80,000 a year without deductions, I paid a small fortune to Uncle Sam. I spent freely since I felt I could never get ahead anyway. It took me until my late 20s for the light bulb to come on. My first gray hair said the future was coming whether I was ready or not. What could I do? I had to start saving at some point!
I read everything I could get on finance, budgeting and saving. Some ideas worked, some didn’t, but the main key was obvious: Spend less than you make. Forced frugality brought results slowly, and eventually the irritation I felt from delayed gratification diminished as my bank account grew.
I thought and read even more, and decided becoming a landlord seemed a way to security. I scratched and saved and bought my first home at 30, took a chance and moved to a fixer while renting the first. Sold the second three years later, used the profit to pay down the first by a third, bought a third house. It was really hard, but skipping the ads on TV, ignoring fashion and having a decent used car helped. Seeing even small progress toward my goal gave me hope.
It seemed like forever, but 18 years later, I own three homes outright, and have plans to pay off the fourth in seven more years. At 48 and unmarried, it seems frightening to not have a pension or a 401(k), but the income from the four rental homes (I will live in the fifth) should help me ease into retirement by 58. You can do it. By focusing only on buying the necessities (with a few splurges here and there), saving becomes a habit that you don’t even notice, one that provides a lifetime of results!
So, readers, how are you saving for retirement? If you’re using an unorthodox strategy, like A Single Saver, tell us about it.
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Congratulations to you! It’s wonderful that you dedicated yourself to this and made it happen.
To me, I’d been concerned with diversification. With a plan like this 100% (or nearly so) of your retirement portfolio is in real estate. The the market tanks, you would be unable to get (much) cash out of these homes. If the rental market tanks, your income stream drops drastically.
It would make sense to me to buy one less house and put that money instead into Vanguard-style index funds so that that you are at least somewhat diversified. If the housing and/or rental markets tank, then you have stocks to hopefully soften that blow.
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Of course it can be done. I’m following the same recipe. You feel like you got a late start in your late 20′s? Try starting in your early 40′s. Now 51. No college degree. I, too, am self-employed and semi-retired for 20+ years. I have 6 rental houses and our house is paid off. Car and truck paid off, etc…
I admire your not having a bunch of mortgaged properties. You’re paying them off as you go and that is a key to success and a better night’s sleep. I am blogging about rapidly paying off my last three properties (167k total mortgage balance) in 42 months. The real payoff comes when the mortgage in gone.
Great post. I whish there were more details. However, as you’ve illustrated, there are other paths to successful, early retirement. Unfortunately, too many people haven’t expanded their horizon beyond a narrow-minded view of 401k’s, IRA’s, Social Security and pensions being the only way to a successful retirement.
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Interesting post! I think the takeaway is to save/provide for retirement — how we do it is up to us. I recently had a conversation with a family member about buying stocks, and he said to think through the tax implications of registering in a RRSP or TFSA or not registering it. (I already put money into both — this is extra.)
His point was that you can earmark funds for retirement but it doesn’t have to be in a traditional retirement vehicle. Given the state of the real estate market here, I have no interest in becoming a landlord right now but it is something I might consider in the future.
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Many people do retire without a traditional retirement vehicle. They’re called the poor.
If I were high income (which 60-80K is) and had a hard time saving (that is, if I spent a lot), then I would think that putting all of my retirement savings in one vehicle, specifically real estate, would be incredibly risky. If housing values did well, I’d do great, if they were ok, I’d do ok, but if they tanked I could actually end up worse off rather than just neutral.
Personally I like taking advantage of tax-advantaged funds using a broad-based index that includes stocks and bonds. I like having some money in real estate (just my own house right now, but it isn’t paid off). Diversification is important to me over the long term.
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I couldn’t pass up company match 401k. Free money.
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If you were a contract worker, like the person highlighted, you wouldn’t have company match to rely on/take advantage of.
I think it’s great that she was able to make retirement work for her on her own terms. I see the point about being better diversified, but as long as she maintains a relatively low cost of living, she should be able to tolerate some fluctuations in rental income.
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Great reading this article, I am also currently single and trying to fund a retirement partially through rental income. I do have “traditional” retirement funds through an RRSP and TSFA but I also entered the landlord game at 30, getting close to 8 years ago as a way to diversify my portfolio.
One of the benefits of rental properties is that even if the market backslides a bit, other than the down payment and my sweat equity over the years the tenants are paying the mortgage and helping to build a solid part of my retirement portfolio. This significantly increases the gains of the initial investment even if the market remains somewhat stagnant which I feel is unlikely when I have at least 20 (probably more) years before I retire.
It’s definitely not for everyone, but it is something worth considering if you are looking to create various income streams in the future.
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Sarah,
I’m a landlord, too, in Canada (ON) and as long as you’re out of the GTA or Vancouver, I don’t see the market tanking like that in the US. My spouse and I own a six-plex so it works for us (mostly) in terms of income. But landlording requires “Big Shoulders” and I can’t increase rents much annually because CMHC effectively controls rent prices here. Have you read the recent Stats Can report on poverty among the elderly? It’s actually, pretty low. With generous CPP, OAS and personal savings, we’ll all fare quite comfortably in our golden years.
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One other point to ponder…how much hands-on involvement do you expect to have in these properties? Will you be onsite or nearby, answering the phone at midnight when there’s a catastrophe? Or will you pay a management firm to do those sorts of details? Managing property is not my idea of retirement, although I speak only for myself.
Your post makes it sound as if you also have some sort of savings (unless every last extra penny from frugality has gone into real estate)
I’m with others, maybe you don’t need/want a tax protected vehicle, but I would also diversify and have money across several kinds of investments.
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The post-retirement work involved was my first thought, too. There are expenses to keep the properties in good condition, maintenaince needs to happen, and when tenants move there is the work of finding new ones to replace them. It’s a working retirement for sure.
It definitely wouldn’t be my first choice for hwo to retire and I would rather put aside my savings in other vehicles. But hey, if it works and you’re comfortable with the implications more power to you.
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It doesn’t have to be a “working retirement” as you state. I use a rental management company and am involved only to the extent I want to be. I don’t get the middle of the night phone calls and have chosen to pay a manager to do the background checks, arrange repairs, pay the taxes, insurance, etc, etc…
As to the cost of maintenance, you set aside a percentage of the rents each and every month. The same with vacancies. It’s a hands off business if you want it to be.
Some landlord/investors choose a more hands-on approach. To each his own, but it’s a choice, not a requirement.
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We manage our property ourselves. For our first foray into land-lording it’s worked pretty well. Mind you, my husband can repair ANYTHING. My teenage son maintains the lawn and we contract other things as required. We cultivated a healthy relationship with our tenants and they’re mostly very respectful of their units. Do they call at night? Rarely. Sometimes I don’t hear a peep from them for months. It’s not that burdensome (maybe 2-3 hrs/week) as long as you’re on top of paperwork, check the place on a weekly basis and maintain the units.
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Wow, your experience sounds far more involved than ours! Our 3 properties are about 80 miles from home. We drive by a few times a year, if that. We have received a grand total of 5 calls/emails in 2+ years of landlording, only a couple of them time-sensitive and none of which could be classified as “emergencies.” We have never had a tenant miss or pay late, nor any turnover.
Obviously it won’t always be this rosy, but it sure isn’t the massive headache that common wisdom associates with landlording!
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Yes, so true. Our property is just 20 mins away and on my way to work, anyway. I probably don’t need to check it that frequently but it’s nice to run into tenants to see if there are any problems, and for them to know we’re around (sort of a deterrent to any potential nonsense). We really don’t find it such a difficult side business.
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I would strongly advise having a couple of the neighbors there keep a closer eye on the place and give you a call, and you call them regularly. It only takes one meth lab to destroy your entire net worth.
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5 calls/e-mails in 2+ years for 3 different properties? Don’t y’all at least renew the leases every year?
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My husband and I own two rental properties and I would like us to add at least one more to our portfolio. While my husband is quite handy, we haven’t had to do much in the way of “property management” so far, and neither of our rental properties are brand new. We do use a Realtor to rent the units when we need to simply because they can do the credit checks and we don’t want to hassle with showing the property. At the cost of 80% of one month’s rent it is worth it. I don’t see managing 3-4 properties as a full time job, as an earlier poster suggested.
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Yeah, that whole “land lording in old age” plan is not retirement, IMO. It’s a second, probably less demanding, career, however it’s still working.
If that’s what you want, it’s a great idea. If what you really want is to relax and just cash checks once a month, getting a call at 2 am telling you a pipe burst is going to ruin that.
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Good for you on bucking the trend and finding something that works for you.
Out of curiosity, did you ever examine traditional or Roth IRAs as a possible vehicle for retirement investments? You wouldn’t need a steady work income for them, they’d be tax advantaged depending on what you feel most comfortable with, and it’s not like you have to contribute a defined amount on a regular schedule unless you want to.
401K or a pension aren’t the only options for non-RE retirement incomes.
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I was thinking the same, Kay. If she is paying so much in taxes, why not use a traditional IRA to invest in stocks, and cut down her taxes. I am glad it is working for her, but I find the lack of tax planning and diversification worrisome and not someone to model.
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Agree! I don’t understand why it’d be so difficult to open an IRA (either type!) with what was saved for a down payment, that would actually require little to no effort to maintain and manage as the investor gets older.
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You can actually rollover IRA money into a self directed IRA and use that money to invest in rental properties. This does not seem to be all that well known, but it can be a great option to diversify your retirement investments.
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I do know this, and I have a self-directed IRA, but I have not found any reasonable way to buy property through it, unless it’s managed professionally. At least with my IRA company, the per-transaction fees and paperwork would make this very complicated. Also, it’s much more difficult to get financing through an IRA. Any tips on making this work?
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There is a kind of self directed IRA that is called Checkbook control and you have the money for your LLC placed in a local checking account. Then you don’t have to deal with the custodian fees so much.
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Besides having to manage these properties into your old age (and possibly having to sink money into them to keep them up to code and rentable), I would worry about your own needs.
If you become disabled or unable to care for yourself for other reasons — how are you going to be paying for the nursing care, home care, etc. Having to sell a property quickly to meet your needs for long-term care seems like a recipe for not getting full value.
I guess if you’re planning to maybe sell them as you get older and older and use that money to fund those sorts of needs?
I like the idea of saving up as though for buying another property and then SAVING it. I’d also recommend assuming that social security will be there for you, because otherwise… Maybe some political action?!
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I lived next to an apartment building that was owned by an elderly couple who was using it for their retirement. They didn’t take care of it. I’m not saying that is always how it is, but I think one would have the tendency to cut corners and try to do things oneself, especially if one is relying on it for daily expenses. In this case, that meant they didn’t maintain the property.
In the Middle East, I also stayed in an apartment for 6 weeks that an elderly expat couple was renting for additional income. It also wasn’t cleaned properly. I stayed there because it was an expensive city and the cheapest lodging I could find in the area I needed to be, but it really needed more maintenance and regular deep cleaning.
I know this is all anecdotal, but I would encourage those who try to make money in retirement via rental properties to really outsource your cleaning and maintenance. Most 75+ year olds can’t get on their hands and knees and clean a bathroom properly or do other routine maintenance.
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My wife’s grandmother owned a duplex outright. The money from renting the other side (typically to family) plus social security were fine for her.
Folks I worked for in college built their restaurant business and poured their money into it so when they sold the business, that became their retirement nest egg.
I knew an older guy at work who had half a dozen industrial patents and he’d been banking the royalties, which he’d be the first to tell you, were small, yet pretty consistant and were part of what allowed him to retire earlier than most (late 50′s). Also, it’s not like last I saw him he’d stopped with looking for additional patent opportunities.
I see plenty of ways of skinning the financial freedom cat. The allure for what is becoming the “traditional” way with 401Ks and the like is that it can be a low maintenance way (e.g. pick a target fund, contribute 10-20%, and focus on your career) of achieving the goal. The trick, as always, is finding what can work for you.
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Yes it can totally work. Might it be more risky than someone with a more diversified approach – yes. Could it be less risky that someone just relying on the stock market (via 401k)? Yes.
Personally I am doing both. Maxing 401K, and then using most of the rest of savings to pay off house/invest in realestate. So I am about 50/50 in terms of $ value. My plan is to use the realestate income to delay taking any distributions from 401k/IRA accounts until I get to the point I don’t want to manage the properties any more (then sell them).
I am not 100% sure on the details, but I believe there is a way to use a self-directed IRA to purchase rental properties as well. This could help better maximize tax savings (both going in and on income). Will be looking more into this in the coming year or so.
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I still think the “three legged stool” approach makes sense–with no more than 1/3 of your net worth in any one class of investments. For retirement, this would be 1/3 in real estate, 1/3 in more liquid investments like mutual funds, and 1/3 coming from pensions & social security. You can calculate the value of the social security by taking the yearly payment total and dividing by .04–so for someone who gets (or expects) $12,000 in yearly social security payments, that “asset” would be worth $300,000.
Real estate can be a great business, but it’s not a low-stress investment.(What is?) And a crummy tenant can easily do enough damage to wipe out your income for the year from a property.It’s well worth striving to pay off your house by whenever you’d like to retire, but managing RENTAL investment property is far from retirement.
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You can absolutely retire without a pension, social security, a 401k, or an IRA. I do not include any of these in my calculations. And if early retirement is your thing, you had best avoid any investment that locks your money away.
It’s all about having an appropriate savings rate and then converting your savings into income producing assets. In the author’s case, real estate. In my case, dividend growth stocks.
The more aggressive your savings rate the faster you can retire. I plan to be able to retire by 45, but I’ll probably keep working because I like my job.
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I am in awe of what the writer has accomplished financially. Speaking for myself, however, I would be very leery of the reliance on one kind of income stream — especially given what I’ve witnessed the last few years locally (Phoenix area). I actually know a couple who own (outright) several rental properties (bought over years, just as the writer did). Their net worth plummetted in the recession, and the last 5 years they have struggled to get and keep decent/paying tenants in their homes. They have had to reduce rent, and be much more flexible about late payments, partial payments, etc. Their biggest worry is keeping “decent” people in the homes so that the houses don’t become drug houses or immigrant-trafficking houses (a big issue in Arizona).
I think this approach has immense benefits, but personally I wouldn’t want to rely on it solely.
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I’m glad it worked out for this person, but I agree with the folks above that in addition to savings, using tax advantage accounts could have helped even more.
But to answer the question of whether I think you need a 401K or pension to retire, I don’t think so. I think there are benefits to them (and thus we max our 401Ks out each year) but we plan on retiring early (our late 30′s or early 40′s) and thus that money won’t be accessible for quite some time.
The majority of our retirement will be funded with savings, and we may decide to become landlords as well, you never know.
Great personal story showing that it can be done!
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I’m a big fan of real estate, we own three rental properties ourselves, but being a landlord is not easy and our real estate investments are worth less than what we paid for them since the real estate bubble popped. The market, at least in our neck of the woods appears to have reached the bottom and is now on an upswing but it will take years to get back to where we wanted to be.
I would want to have my retirement funds in a variety of sectors with real estate being one. Just because you are a contract worker that doesn’t mean you could have an IRA or have investments in stocks/bonds/etc/
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I’m definitely on board with such “non-traditional” strategies. My young company does not offer a 401k plan (though reportedly they will soon), and that has been fine for me. They’ve made up for it with healthy bonuses and profit-sharing.
My wife and I have always saved, and currently our assets include 3 rental properties (all with mortgages, but all producing healthy cash flow), Roth IRAs, and numerous interests in investment partnerships, some of which provide cash flow and appreciation and some of which are more speculative and could end up being total losses. As we’re both 28, good savers, and good earners, we are not overly concerned about the potential losses.
Within 10 years, we expect to have a net worth well over $1m and cash flow from investments that approaches today’s salary from our employment. Who needs a “traditional” retirement vehicle in that situation?
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Single Saver mentions “I read everything I could get on finance, budgeting and saving. Some ideas worked, some didn’t, but the main key was obvious: Spend less than you make.”
Can you advise on what were some of the best books you read on learning how to find opportunities to buy homes, and turn them into rental properites? It would also be help to know what you think worked and why and what didn’t.
Thanks!
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This is great for some. However I make a decent income working, and with a family to care for RE isn’t worth the work for me. Nor is it worth the expense, given the high RE prices where I live. It would take ages to get those properties paid off. But kudos to those who can swing it.
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As long as the money is there the source is irrelevant.
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That sums it up perfectly.
Check out http://www.dividendmantra.com he is building his retirement portfolio while completely eschewing traditional avenues of savings (401(k) and IRA’s).
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I respectfully disagree — I think sources are relevant because we need to look at the security of those sources and manage risk. For example, when a company goes bankrupt its pensioners are one of the last creditors to see any money (if they see any money at all.) Government pensions as we know them may not exist by the time we retire. The markets and real estate may go up and down, but it all depends on how close you are to retirement how much risk you can bear and if you have time to let declining assets recover.
I agree with many of the commenters that diversification is a good thing — so source does matter to me.
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Having a 401(k) and a Roth IRA, I can’t imagine being without them and fortunately I won’t have to.
Have a rental property that hopefully I will be able to do without.
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Of course. I too plan on retiring well before 59 1/2. Like others have stated before, the major disadvantage to a pension or 401k is you have to wait so long to ‘retire’. For many early savers, low spenders retirement will come much before the easy access to 401ks and Pensions.
Many different approaches to cash flow but after FI / Retirement but many people use paid for real estate, Vanguard annuities (the ones that aren’t so terrible) and end up making a little money in retirement doing fun things or things they enjoy. If you have very low expenses retiring before 59 1/2 is quite probable.
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My mom once owned 7 rental properties and used that for her monthly income (30 years ago). She and my dad (and us kids) did all the work on them. But then a housing crash happened, she couldn’t get renters, didn’t have the cash to fix them up, and had to sell them all at a huge loss. It devastated her financially and she never really recovered. Fortunately, she was saved by an inheritance.
In my mind, having 100% of your retirement funds in ONE asset class is insane. Never ever.
Use alternative assets to increase diversification, not reduce it.
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Yes, but my pension also has lifetime medical which is a great feature. I built my nest egg early and it is in a brokerage account. I do not need a pension or 401K to retire because I alread achieved financial freedom the old fashioned way, I earned it at 38 years old.
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Well, thats pretty amazing. I guess if you were in the same financial situation as her you’d have to think long and hard about a way to keep the job you’re happy in and still save for retirement. Being lucky in the housing market must have played a key factor as well.
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I am totally agree and happy you found what works for you.
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Bravo!! One of the key points in your post is: “…the irritation I felt from delayed gratification diminished as my bank account grew”.
At a certain point, you stop even wanting things. I’ve found that true with myself. Thoughts like, “Oh, that’s cool, I’d like that!” or “I think I’ll order pizza tonight ’cause I’m starving and lazy,” eventually stop even happening.
There are certain things I could really use (wants) for my hobbies, but when I see a $200 price tag on them, I’ve delayed them for years. Amassing the cashola has become a more rewarding hobby.
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It is definitely possible to retire without a pension or a 401k. In order to achieve that goal you just need to have a great base of passive income, which is not impossible.
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Real estate is such a magical (semi-) passive income fairy… Some day. Some day.
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My experience has been that real estate is certainly not as passive as mutual funds in my 401k. It’s a second job with odd hours and irregular cash flows.
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I had to start from scratch in my early 40s and I am now in my late 40s and I feel like I am just getting started.
I am extremely unhandy and would never consider rental property. I have less than 10k saved for retirement so far. I am trying individual stocks and a small mutual fund. I was able to join the pension fund at my work last year but my employer only gives a very small match.
I will keep plugging away but I do not see retirement in my future.
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Very interesting story here! I was thinking about a person I know who is nearing retirement without a, well, retirement plan. If only they had rentals…
Thanks for pointing out that just because someone doesn’t have traditional means of retirement, doesn’t mean that they can’t retire. I’m sure there are plenty more ways to live happily through the retirement years without that pension!
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Have you considered a solo 401(k) or SEP-IRA?
These are two tax-advantaged retirement plans available to self-employed or sole-proprietor businesses. For example, you could potentially put away 50K per year into a 401(k), far higher than many regularly-employed people (like me) can.
I’m no expert, but check out information about the SEP and solo 401k from other sources. Fidelity and Vanguard, in particular, have good websites.
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Looks like I need to elaborate a bit more- yes, I also tried traditional investing knowing I needed to diversify. Not knowing how to pick a competent advisor, I was burned by losing $70k so decided to stick with what I know, real estate. I currently have $50k in a money market, and the remaining net worth is, true enough, not liquid. My LTC policy should help with nursing home costs should I need it, and yes, I plan to liquidate the 4 homes as I age. Fingers crossed this all works out!
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Let me be the strongest naysayer, pretty please. This headline is misleading and the details are skimpy. The author appears to be breaking the first rule of financial independence which is: Don’t put all your eggs in one basket. This is often referred to as the three-legged stool, with good reason. SEP IRAs and 403(b)s are just two of the many other options out there. Don’t get me wrong, I love real estate. Fortunately, I am not upside down on any of my properties. I also maintain a comfortable cash reserve account for tenant gaps, repairs, etc. I find very little to recommend in this article.
BTW, I just got married for the first time at age 54, so I, too, was a single woman for most of my adult life and my retirement is primarily self-funded.
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Hi Diane- sorry for the lack of specifics in my post. let me address some of your statements? This method was neither easy nor perfect. I had a few false starts- over the years I have owned several multi-units, but have found the caliber of tenants in single family housing to be more reliable and financially secure (I.e., will stay in my properties longer). To ensure quality tenants, i only own higher end housing (this after a few nightmares with section 8 tenants). I have a sizeable reserve fund ($100k) I set up after selling one of my fourplexes, which I will not tap until 60 or so. My profit margin right now is low (approx $2400/mo.), but within 7 years, with 4 houses owned outright, it will be at least triple that, which is more than enough to pay skilled workers to handle any maintenance issues, as well as hire a mgmt co. should i desire it. Since I have been trounced in the stock market, i prefer a more tangible investment vehicle, real estate being an asset you can actually use. So yes, I may not be “appropriately diversified”, but experience has taught me my personal tolerance for risk is too low to play in the market, and with LTC and 4 different revenue streams, I suspect I will be o.k.
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Thanks for the fast response, SIngle Saver.
Here’s what I don’t understand: While the stock market was being “trounced”, so was the housing market. Those who stayed the course in the stock market with well-diversified portfolios have fully recovered and then some by now. The housing market, while currently improving dramatically in some parts of the country, still hasn’t returned to what it was. You didn’t get out of the real estate market when it tanked, did you?
Many people who get into the rental business think it’s a passive path to riches. Both of our experiences reflect how far from the truth that is. Ask me how I spent my “vacation” last week. Yep, working on my rental property between tenants. Lotta money out, no new tenant secured yet. I have a big, fat cushion, but I’m also in escrow on a new home and getting one ready to sell. There’s enough cash available to accomplish all my goals, but it is keeping me incredibly busy, and I’m retired, for Pete’s sake! My stock market positions do not keep me up at night.
The simple fact is that houses will always require maintenance. The older the houses get, the more maintenance they are guaranteed to require. The older I get, the less energy I have for say, spreading four tons of decomposed granite in my Desert Home yard. You can either do it yourself or pay someone else, but the upkeep and taxes never go away. I sincerely applaud your efforts, but would urge you to diversify for your own protection. You owe it to your future self.
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Thanks Diane. You are right, & I would love to find a decent financial advisor who could steer me into the proper diversification with extra cash I may have, but I have tried the “friends recommendation” route as well as a “pay for service” independent, both with terrible results. I figure if a house is upside down right now, as long as it is paid for, who cares. I have held some rentals for 10 years or so, and their value has fluctuated. It’s a fairly safe bet that they will all be worth more in 20 years, when I will only be 68. My whole goal here is to quit work as soon as I can, and spend my time working with animal charities, which only pays in spiritual peace. Because I have adopted a low-maintenance lifestyle, my cash needs will not be extravagant. (In fact, every one of my homes is nicer than any I have lived in). So, fingers crossed, I can make this all work out! Thanks for the comments
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