GRS Home  Forum Home
Bank Rates Center
   Savings Account Rates
   Money Market Rates
   Highest CD Rates
Insurance Rates Center
  Auto           Health
   Life              Home
Mortgage Rates Center
  Mortgage Rates
  Mortgage Quotes

Last visit was:
A place for Get Rich Slowly readers to ask questions
and exchange ideas
It is currently Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:52 pm




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 46 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: the changing nature of our country
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 3:38 am 

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:25 am
Posts: 696
"During later years, I often shook my head uncomprehendingly as I watched society in the Lower Forty-eight degenerate into a bunch of whining, sniveling crybabies. America was turning into the land of victims who blamed everyone and everything except themselves for how their lives turned out. They expected government to take care of them cradle to grave, to cushion and protect them against the consequences of their own choices. Little by little, in the name of security, they were relinquishing our personal liberty."

Ultimately they will have neither security nor liberty.

The quote above is from Norma Cobb the last person to successfully homestead in Alaska under the (1871) homestead act..She and her husband arrived in alaska with 6 kids and $35 dollars in their pockets...

Love the power of the truth in this quote....


Top
Offline Profile E-mail   
 Post subject: Re: the changing nature of our country
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 9:37 am 

Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 8:14 pm
Posts: 1857
People have been complaining about that forever. Go read The Decline of Personal Liberty in America by Edgar Montgomery Cullen.

It was published by the New York Bar Association...in 1914.


Top
Offline Profile   
 Post subject: Re: the changing nature of our country
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 9:54 am 
Moderator

Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:01 am
Posts: 5357
And let's not forget that homesteaders like the Cobbs were taking a land handout from the Federal government.

Said land, by the way, had often been taken by force from the rightful native title holders.


Top
Offline Profile E-mail   
 Post subject: Re: the changing nature of our country
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 1:22 pm 

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:25 am
Posts: 696
doinghomework,

You really do need to do some homework
1) said land was extremely desolate, harsh, uninhabited and was purchased from the Russian Government for pennies for the acre by the us government with citizens money. No indians were displaced from Cob valley.
2) hand out you say? so every american settler and improver was taking a handout ...thats just plain silly.
3) the land is now improved and the government benefits as a result.

The quote is particularly germane today as there really were not any entitlements in 1914. Mr. Cullen was pieved at the ever growing number of laws that dictate how we live...and the loss of liberty as a result..and he was so right! Thanks for the citation I had not read it before...


Last edited by RayinPenn on Sun May 19, 2013 4:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
Offline Profile E-mail   
 Post subject: Re: the changing nature of our country
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 2:10 pm 
Moderator

Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:01 am
Posts: 5357
RayinPenn wrote:
You really do need to do some homework
1) said land was extremely desolate, harsh, uninhabited and was purchased from the Russian Government for pennies for the acre by the us government with citizens money. No indians were displaced from Cob valley.
2) hand out you say? so every american settler and improver was taking a handout ...thats just plain silly.
3) the land is now improved and the government is benefits as a result.


Yeah, I get the benefit to everyone. But desolate, harsh, etc do not mean free for the taking (by the Russian govt.). We bought Manhattan pretty cheaply too. I suspect the Russian "ownership" was by Right of Conquest, or under the Discovery Doctrine, neither of which should give anyone the warm fuzzies these days.

And yes, homesteaders, including some of my ancestors, were taking a handout. I have no problem with that. I just took the original quote to be a little hypocritical in that they failed to recognize the help they got from the government.


Top
Offline Profile E-mail   
 Post subject: Re: the changing nature of our country
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 8:39 pm 

Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 8:14 pm
Posts: 1857
RayinPenn wrote:
The quote is particularly germane today as there really were not any entitlements in 1914. Mr. Cullen was pieved at the ever growing number of laws that dictate how we live...and the loss of liberty as a result..and he was so right! Thanks for the citation I had not read it before...

And yet I do not think you would like to be transported back in time to live in that era if you were not a white Anglo-Saxon Protestant male.


Top
Offline Profile   
 Post subject: Re: the changing nature of our country
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 4:21 am 

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:25 am
Posts: 696
I believe what the homesteader was referring to is:

1) I bought a home I cannot afford and now I am underwater and behind on my payments, BAIL ME OUT!
2) the payment on the expensive new car I bought (real eye candy) are making it impossible to stay current, BAIL ME OUT
3) The credit card interest rates are killing me I am almost at my limit.. (Boy I am so stressed I sure could use a $4 cup of mocha mocha latte.) BAIL ME OUT
4) I borrowed $80,000 to get my degree in coffee history and I cant seem to find a job and the payments are due soon. Did you know student debt doesn't go away when you declare bankruptcy BAIL ME OUT
5) My ocean front property was destroyed by Hurricane Sandy and I didn't bother to carry flood insurance the premiums were so high! Why do you think they were that high? ... BAIL ME OUT
6) I am illegally in this country and I cant go to the university that i want because i don't qualify for state aid or state tuition. BAIL ME OUT

The list is endless -- its all about failure to take responsibility lathered with a dose of indignant entitlement...


Top
Offline Profile E-mail   
 Post subject: Re: the changing nature of our country
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 4:42 am 

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:25 am
Posts: 696
VT,

I will not get sucked into a discussion of discrimination that happened 100 years ago..Both victims and discriminators are long dead, it is off point and I don't give a hoot...

RayinPenn


Top
Offline Profile E-mail   
 Post subject: Re: the changing nature of our country
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 10:27 am 
Moderator

Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:01 am
Posts: 5357
RayinPenn wrote:
I believe what the homesteader was referring to is:

BAIL ME OUT!

The list is endless -- its all about failure to take responsibility lathered with a dose of indignant entitlement...


I'm all for taking responsibility, but how about this one:

These white people came onto our land, the land that we relied on for hunting our food. They built houses and claimed the land was now theirs. Then their courts said it was alright because only christians could have property rights.

Or how about that yearly payment that Alaskans get for oil extracted form historically Inuit lands? Or the fishing contracts from native fishing areas?

Or, I had too many kids (6) and not enough money because I lacked skills valued by the modern world, so bail me out by giving me land in Alaska.

I mean, we need to get over all this of course. But homesteaders really aren't in a position to be criticizing others for taking a bail out. I'm sure they worked hard chopping wood and fending of bears. But that is only because they did not work hard at a regular job earning money to pay taxes and pay for a home in the suburbs. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, but it is a personal choice.


Top
Offline Profile E-mail   
 Post subject: Re: the changing nature of our country
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 1:48 pm 

Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 8:14 pm
Posts: 1857
RayinPenn wrote:
I will not get sucked into a discussion of discrimination that happened 100 years ago..Both victims and discriminators are long dead, it is off point and I don't give a hoot...

Then you're willing to accept an essay written in 1914 that you agree with and don't give a hoot about other facts about the same era? Isn't that just picking and choosing what supports your position and ignoring everything that doesn't?

You can close your eyes and cover your ears all you want Ray, but honestly, the "limitations of freedom" have a direct bearing on your life today. Honestly, if we didn't have anti-discriminatory laws limiting the freedom of schools, what would the odds be of your daughter attending college today? Go back a few generations and see what percentage of females went to college then vs. now. And what of her career prospects after she graduated?

My real point (and I'm just using your daughter as an example you can relate to), more people in the United States today have greater personal freedom than they've ever had before? And how did we get to that state? By curbing the abuse of those freedoms by WASPs. Tell me, why is it that the people who complain loudest about the curtailment of freedom mostly WASPs? Let's not talk about the past if you don't want to talk about that. How about today? What percentage of the people complaining about the loss of liberty WASPs vs. minorities?


Top
Offline Profile   
 Post subject: Re: the changing nature of our country
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 4:01 pm 

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:25 am
Posts: 696
Quote:
Or, I had too many kids (6) and not enough money because I lacked skills valued by the modern world, so bail me out by giving me land in Alaska.


So every homesteader asked for a handout eh? My my that is silly. So how much did their handout cost us? (land near the Artic circle).. And every mechanic, hunting guide, gold miner, pipeline worker and bush pilot is without skills? My don't you belong to an elitist club. These were very acomplished independent people.

The difference is the homesteaders worked hard and took a bad situation and lived without sponging off anyone - they epitomize self reliance...The bail me outs of the world sponge and sponge some more.

I am not too worried about the indians ...don't they all own casinos?

VT
Clearly you either have guilt about being say a 3 percenter or have anger issues with WASPs..


Top
Offline Profile E-mail   
 Post subject: Re: the changing nature of our country
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 5:24 pm 

Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 8:14 pm
Posts: 1857
RayinPenn wrote:
VT
Clearly you either have guilt about being say a 3 percenter or have anger issues with WASPs..

Nope. Just asking questions that are being ducked. There is greater opportunity now for people in this country than ever, yet all I hear from you is the reduction of liberties. The point is that many of those reductions were essentially the addressing of inequities that went on before. So, you wanna address some facts, or do you want to keep up the ad hominem attacks?


Last edited by VinTek on Sun May 19, 2013 5:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
Offline Profile   
 Post subject: Re: the changing nature of our country
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 5:31 pm 
Moderator

Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:01 am
Posts: 5357
RayinPenn wrote:
So every homesteader asked for a handout eh? ... Indians...


Don't put words in my mouth.

The Homestead Acts authorized the USG to GIVE AWAY land or sell it at below "market" prices. So yes, it was a handout. You just don't want to see things that way. There are plenty of other handouts including oil leases to billion dollar companies, welfare checks, corporate jet tax deductions, and government cheese. I'm not passing judgement on any of those programs including homesteading. I just think you are taking a romanticized view of what was essentially a handout.

As far as skills, I never said anything about the skills of bush pilots, guides, and so forth. I simply noted that what made those particular homesteaders poor was their inability to earn decent money in the lower 48 wherever they came from. The story is not about how they took the millions they earned in their careers and retired early to a homestead. The story is about being poor and starting with nothing on land they got from the government for next to nothing.

As for the native Americans, is it your theory that we took their land and now they get to earn it back with their casinos?


Top
Offline Profile E-mail   
 Post subject: Re: the changing nature of our country
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 3:19 am 

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:25 am
Posts: 696
Quote:
The Homestead Acts authorized the USG to GIVE AWAY land or sell it at below "market" prices. So yes, it was a handout.


Actually in this case it was land with zero value that the homesteaders were required to improve within 5 years. Their improvements were validated and only them did the property become theirs. This 'consideration' makes the term handout not applicable.

Quote:
As far as skills, I never said anything about the skills of bush pilots, guides, and so forth. I simply noted that what made those particular homesteaders poor was their inability to earn decent money in the lower 48 wherever they came from.


In point of fact Mr Cobb was a gifted mechanic and later became quite successful at all the trades I listed. I am sure you can see the difference between Bail Me Out of my mortgage, student loan and what these people accomplished...You made some assumptions in your analogy that were simply inaccurate...


Top
Offline Profile E-mail   
 Post subject: Re: the changing nature of our country
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 3:32 am 

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:25 am
Posts: 696
Quote:
There is greater opportunity now for people in this country than ever, yet all I hear from you is the reduction of liberties.


Very true and well said, but funding the bail out of every screw up will and has resulted in the need for ever increasing taxation. Those taxes are a yoke of oppression that only 50% of the country bears.. and I for one would like to have a say about about that ever growing spending...

Did you read the times article about handouts to minority farmers. It is redistribution pure and simple. The current administration is robbing us blind. The founding fathers are turning over in their graves...

ps Maybe I and many others, who are pulling the plough, don't want to pay for someones $70,000 student loan debt degree in coffee history. After all I managed to pay mine off.. It took ten years...


Top
Offline Profile E-mail   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 46 posts ]  Moderators: kombat, bpgui, JerichoHill Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Theme created StylerBB.net & kodeki