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 Post subject: Re: Goal: Invest $100,000 in 2010
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:46 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:33 am
Posts: 66
Location: Tennessee
Hmmm... so that means my classmates with stay at home moms were also raised by strangers since we were in school from ~7AM to 5PM starting at 1st grade. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Goal: Invest $100,000 in 2010
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:52 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:29 pm
Posts: 1605
Location: Seattle, WA
kombat wrote:
[*] Spends the majority of their waking hours with Person A
[*] Is obtaining the majority of their education from Person A
[*] Achieves the majority of his/her milestones (first words/steps/potty/etc.) with Person A
[*] Learns their habits, skills, and morals from Person A[/list]


None of those attributes are inherent in going to day care. Thus the statement in question is not a tautology. A logical tautology is when something is true regardless of the value of the variables. A rhetorical tautology is saying the same thing twice, typically in two different ways. "A child in day care is raised by strangers" is neither.

I don't believe a parent has to give their child every possible advantage, regardless of the cost. I don't believe a parent is a salmon who ceases to live once their spawn is released. (Neither of those statements is a tautology either.)


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 Post subject: Re: Goal: Invest $100,000 in 2010
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:57 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:29 pm
Posts: 1605
Location: Seattle, WA
In the end, there are two kinds of parents: Those who are too selfish, and those who are crazy/overprotective/coddling/etc. The former are those who do less for their children than the person speaking, and the latter those who do more.


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 Post subject: Re: Goal: Invest $100,000 in 2010
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:29 am 

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:19 pm
Posts: 1718
Location: Ottawa, Canada
stannius wrote:
I don't believe a parent has to give their child every possible advantage, regardless of the cost.


I completely agree. But we're not talking about a parent sacrificing their future, or their shelter, or their health. We're talking about a parent who would rather have an extra $100,000 than give their own child a better chance at success.

Here's what it comes down to for me. Let's say you take a look at the general population, and it turns out that x% of us came from divorced or single parent households, and thus spent a good portion of our youth in daycare.

Then you look at the population of criminals and drug addicts (sorry to repeat myself), and notice that y% of them came from divorced or single parent households, and spent their formative years in daycare.

I'm saying y is significantly greater than x. We don't all have an equal chance of becoming a criminal or drug addict. Going to daycare increases your risk of falling into negative patterns later in life. It's very taboo to say this out loud, because our culture values parenting and families above all else, but the numbers don't lie. Just look at the statistics for the US's prison population. It's right there in black and white. The percentage of incarcerated individuals who had 2 married parents growing up - one of whom stayed home to raise the children - is undeniably less than the same statistic for the general public.

Thus, if you have the option of giving your child a 100-x % chance of not becoming a criminal or drug addict, but you instead choose to roll the dice and give them a 100-y% chance, then that's selfish.

If your child is in daycare because of unfortunate circumstances (dad turned out to be a drunk/abuser/deadbeat, now you're a single parent), then that's one thing. All you can do is make the most of a bad situation. But it seems clear to me that the best situation is for a child to be raised by his/her own parent. Dealing with life's curveballs is one thing, but voluntarily choosing to put your child in the high-risk group because you want more money (when you already have way more than you need), or because raising a kid turned out to be more work than the fairy tales led you to believe (and thus you're "grumpy"), then I believe that's putting your own interests ahead of your child's.


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 Post subject: Re: Goal: Invest $100,000 in 2010
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:58 am 
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Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 9:01 am
Posts: 320
Location: Canada
Bel, you seem to be balanced and considerate of your family. As a husband myself, I am proud of my wife. She is wonderful at all her roles: wife, mother, project manager, friend, sister, neighbor, etc. By doing all of these I think she is an excellent role model for our daughter.

Forget about prisoner examples. Look to those who are successful in all of life and model yourselves after them.

RICK

_________________
RICKLEE


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 Post subject: Re: Goal: Invest $100,000 in 2010
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 7:06 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:33 am
Posts: 66
Location: Tennessee
RICKLEE wrote:
Bel, you seem to be balanced and considerate of your family. As a husband myself, I am proud of my wife. She is wonderful at all her roles: wife, mother, project manager, friend, sister, neighbor, etc. By doing all of these I think she is an excellent role model for our daughter.

Forget about prisoner examples. Look to those who are successful in all of life and model yourselves after them.

RICK


Thanks Rick. No worries; I've learned not to let such comments affect me. It's amusing actually. :D

My husband and I know and on the same page of what is best for our family as a whole.

I'm surrounded with great role models, working women with successful kids. I actually find them to be more involved with their kids than others. My boss told me the other day that her daughter's classmate was complaining to the mom (a stay at home mom) about not having as good of a vocabulary as my boss's daugter. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Goal: Invest $100,000 in 2010
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 7:40 am 

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:19 pm
Posts: 1718
Location: Ottawa, Canada
bel wrote:
No worries; I've learned not to let such comments affect me. It's amusing actually. :D


I've got to admit, I'm pretty surprised at how casually people are dismissing this. If we were talking about a mother drinking during pregnancy, or smoking with a toddler in the car, people would be all over it. But for some reason, daycare gets a free pass?

Is it because everybody does it, and you don't want to be a hypocrite? Willful denial? I don't get it.


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 Post subject: Re: Goal: Invest $100,000 in 2010
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:10 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:33 am
Posts: 66
Location: Tennessee
I find your argument comparable to saying... Parents should never drive their kids anywhere. Why? Because statistics say that vehicle collision is the leading cause of death among children. Those parents are self-centered/selfish for choosing to go shopping, etc with their kids rather than keeping the kids safe at home. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Goal: Invest $100,000 in 2010
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:42 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:35 am
Posts: 1148
Location: Maryland
I'm all for parents who smoke in the car with a toddler in the backseat and the windows rolled up. It improves the baby's lung capacity so that they are stronger when smoke is not present.

In fact, I have read studies where all of the top Olympic swimmers had parents that smoke. If that's not proof that it's good, I don't know what is. :o


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 Post subject: Re: Goal: Invest $100,000 in 2010
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:48 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:29 pm
Posts: 167
kombat wrote:
bel wrote:
No worries; I've learned not to let such comments affect me. It's amusing actually. :D


I've got to admit, I'm pretty surprised at how casually people are dismissing this. If we were talking about a mother drinking during pregnancy, or smoking with a toddler in the car, people would be all over it. But for some reason, daycare gets a free pass?

Is it because everybody does it, and you don't want to be a hypocrite? Willful denial? I don't get it.


Maybe because is it NOTHING like drinking/smoking while pregnant.


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 Post subject: Re: Goal: Invest $100,000 in 2010
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 1:00 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:19 pm
Posts: 1718
Location: Ottawa, Canada
emoore wrote:
kombat wrote:
Is it because everybody does it, and you don't want to be a hypocrite? Willful denial? I don't get it.


Maybe because is it NOTHING like drinking/smoking while pregnant.


OK then. Willful denial it is.


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 Post subject: Re: Goal: Invest $100,000 in 2010
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 1:48 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:29 pm
Posts: 167
kombat wrote:
emoore wrote:
kombat wrote:
Is it because everybody does it, and you don't want to be a hypocrite? Willful denial? I don't get it.


Maybe because is it NOTHING like drinking/smoking while pregnant.


OK then. Willful denial it is.


You still have not shown any studies that prove your point so it is your opinion and belief that daycare causes much harm to children. That is just fine but why are you trying to push your opinions on others? It's their choice and I'm sure they have considered the positives and negatives to daycare. You assume that all daycare is bad and has a negative impact on children which I don't think is true.


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 Post subject: Re: Goal: Invest $100,000 in 2010
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:06 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:19 pm
Posts: 1718
Location: Ottawa, Canada
emoore wrote:
You still have not shown any studies that prove your point so it is your opinion and belief that daycare causes much harm to children.


The data linking daycare to problematic adulthood (criminal records, drug addiction) is commonplace. I didn't link to it because it's common knowledge.

emoore wrote:
That is just fine but why are you trying to push your opinions on others?


Because I'm trying to mitigate another generation of criminals and drug addicts, borne of households who value 2 incomes above their own child's success.

emoore wrote:
It's their choice and I'm sure they have considered the positives and negatives to daycare.


It was "their own choice" of everyone who took subprime mortgages, too, but we're all paying the price, aren't we? I'm fearful of the day when Bel's child breaks into my house and loots my medicine cabinet looking for Oxycontin. I'd say that concerns me - wouldn't you?

emoore wrote:
You assume that all daycare is bad and has a negative impact on children which I don't think is true.


I think it's pretty obvious that all other things being equal, it's preferable for a child to be raised by its parent than by an indifferent stanger. Are you seriously denying that?


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 Post subject: Re: Goal: Invest $100,000 in 2010
PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:12 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:29 pm
Posts: 167
I deleted my reply because this is Bel's post about investing extra money. Keep up the good work! I hope to be in your position some day.


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 Post subject: Re: Goal: Invest $100,000 in 2010
PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:23 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:49 am
Posts: 150
Location: Australia
emoore wrote:
I deleted my reply because this is Bel's post about investing extra money. Keep up the good work! I hope to be in your position some day.


I'm going to pre-empt Kombat's reply by asking, why do you hope to some day be raising a drug addict who will break into his medicine cabinet?


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