Is this place a Dave Ramseyfied?

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Rush
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Is this place a Dave Ramseyfied?

Postby Rush » Tue May 01, 2007 12:29 pm

I was a member of Dave's TMMO pay-per-view website for about 3 years. I didn't pay for those forums, they were given to me as a charter member. Alas, the plug got pulled and now that website wants some money from me to continue my access. I've decided to pass on paying to play at Dave's place. Two reasons that led me to that decision: #1 - It's $9 per month and that's too much and #2 - I disagree with Dave on most topics. It's probably best that I got the boot as you'd often find me challenging some of the posts with little logical argument - but now I realize it was probably not an appropriate forum to explain to someone that dumping a nice used car for a beater is often a bad idea. . .I digress. . .

More about #2. Dave's plan seems to be designed for an audience who has no control over their personal finances. I've always equated it like this: Dave followers are to spending money as alchoholics are to drinking booze. If you are at an AA meeting and ask the leader if it's OK to have a glass of wine with dinner, you'd get a resounding 'NO!'. Whereas, if you ask your doctor if it is OK to have glass of wine with dinner, you'd get a resounding 'YES!'.

For people who are not spend-o-holics and do have good control of their finances, credit cards are fine. Car loans are fine. Thirty year mortgages are, dare I say, smart (unless you starting paying additional principle). High FICO scores are good and should be tended to.

Is this "Personal Finance" forum aligned largely with Dave's plan? Where do you stand in regards to credit cards, debt, and investing?

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Postby Croz » Tue May 01, 2007 1:12 pm

I think we're all over the map. If you want to get a variety of opinions on topics, this seems like a good place. Some try to follow one plan or another, but I think everyone has some different approaches to things.

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Postby jdroth » Tue May 01, 2007 1:29 pm

I'd say we're all over the map, too. Personally, my whole journey to financial recovery started because I read Ramsey's <i>TMMO</i>. I really was like one of those alcoholics with money. (I <i>still</i> have trouble sometimes, though my successes now far outweight my failures.) I think that many Get Rich Slowly readers are in a similar position: they're mired deep in debt and looking for ways to escape. For them, Ramsey is awesome.

But you're right. Some people, like my wife, never have problems with money, and never have. For these people, Ramsey isn't appropriate. I often say, "Do what works for you," and I believe that's an important concept to understand. For some people, Ramsey is perfect. For others, he's meaningless. Most of us fall someplace in-between.

I find it strange that Ramsey would charge so much for his forums. That seems to go counter to his whole message. (Meaning: he wouldn't want people to be spending $9/mo on, say, cable television, right?)

Anyhow: welcome aboard, Rush. I think you'll find plenty of people here with a similar mindset to yours.

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Postby Gnashchick » Tue May 01, 2007 3:22 pm

I've never read any of Dave Ramsey's stuff, but have picked up bits and pieces of it from blogs and forums. It never struck me as something that related to me. I have a credit card, and I'm trying to pay down the debt on it - but I will keep the card after it's paid off. I don't plan on running a balance on it again, but I also know that sht happens and when it does, I will pay it off again as quickly as I could. I also believe in "good debt" like student loans and wisely managed mortgages. The key is to manage your money wisely. That's why I like this blog and forum - a lot of good advice for a wide range of situations.
Steal what works, fix what's broke, fake the rest

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Postby plonkee » Wed May 02, 2007 5:04 am

Lots of people here trying to get out of debt seem to be following Dave.

But there are lots of people here not trying to get out of debt, and people getting out of debt without Dave.

So far I like to think it been welcoming to logical thought and not full of acolytes of anyone (except we all love JD of course :wink: )
In mathematics you don't understand things. You just get used to them. John von Neumann

uk personal finance and religion and atheist

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Postby Siobhan » Wed May 02, 2007 6:26 am

Well, I have a strong, strong distaste for Ramsey, I'm just not very evangelical about it here or anywhere else.

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Postby zen » Wed May 02, 2007 6:45 am

I'm familiar with Dave Ramsey from reading blogs, but that's it. As far as I can tell, this forum and the other I frequent are all over the place - some people are anti-loans/credit and some are pro-financial lending (smartly).

I enjoy a good debate now and again, but as long as it's factual (or stated opinion) I never have a problem agreeing to disagree.

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Postby tinyhands » Wed May 02, 2007 8:17 am

I too am an Anti-Ramseyite (on non-financial grounds) but I recognize, as others have noted, that he's the best thing to have happened to some people. Your mileage may vary.

However, I like to think these forums put the personal in personal finance more than any other. Everyone has a slightly different set of circumstances and conditions, so there's not one answer to any problem.
Read my 'fiscal fitness' financial disclosures <a href="http://www.getrichslowly.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=176">here</a>.

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Postby Cady » Thu May 03, 2007 10:58 am

I'd never heard of the guy until I started using a feed reader and gathering personal finance links.
What I seen and heard of him so far makes me think I might go read his books, but I won't buy them.

I think of myself as someone who has decided to quit spending mindlessly.

I'm approaching it in a similiar fashion as how I quit smoking cigarettes. When I quit smoking I join the About.com cessation forums to find like-minded people who reinforced my new decision and I gathered from them tips and tricks
to help me on my way. They were great for the first few months when I needed lots of reinforcement. I got to the point where I had new habits and I didn't need them quite as much. I'm hoping that is the way this is going to work.

Now that I'm more aware of my spending patterns I'd like to learn tips and tricks on how to maximize my savings.
I'll take those tips from anywhere.

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Postby Cap » Fri May 04, 2007 4:05 pm

eh you don't have to hate debt or credit to be a Dave Ramsey fan.

but yeah I'm generally not too fond of Ramsey and some of his fans too. But like tinyhand, I can totally see that for a lot of people, Ramsey was a great solution to their financial trouble. Ramsey also has plenty of viewpoints that I agree with completely.

either way, if you've found a method in getting out of debt or having better control of finances that works for you --- and it happens to be Dave Ramsey's method --- then it's all good in my book.

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Postby jdroth » Sun May 06, 2007 11:14 am

<i>I too am an Anti-Ramseyite (on non-financial grounds)</i>

I'm trying to figure out what this means. :)

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Postby tinyhands » Mon May 07, 2007 8:58 am

jdroth wrote:<i>I too am an Anti-Ramseyite (on non-financial grounds)</i>
I'm trying to figure out what this means. :)

Basically, I recognize that what he says helps a great number of people. However, I don't like him personally, as a person. I used to listen to his show all the time, until one day I heard him berate a woman whose religious beliefs were different than his and he refused to help her. He was downright mean to a woman who called him with a sincere and reasonable request for help. I exercised my right to turn off the radio that day. I didn't want to offend anyone by bringing religion into it and I don't want to suggest that one set of beliefs is any better than another. Thus, if a "personal financial guru" can't stick to talking about personal finance, I'm not going to listen.
Read my 'fiscal fitness' financial disclosures <a href="http://www.getrichslowly.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=176">here</a>.

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Postby jdroth » Mon May 07, 2007 9:10 am

Makes perfect sense, tinyhands! There's a reason I keep politics and religion out of my personal finance blog. It's not the place.

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Postby Siobhan » Tue May 15, 2007 9:43 am

tinyhands wrote:Basically, I recognize that what he says helps a great number of people. However, I don't like him personally, as a person. I used to listen to his show all the time, until one day I heard him berate a woman whose religious beliefs were different than his and he refused to help her. He was downright mean to a woman who called him with a sincere and reasonable request for help. I exercised my right to turn off the radio that day. I didn't want to offend anyone by bringing religion into it and I don't want to suggest that one set of beliefs is any better than another. Thus, if a "personal financial guru" can't stick to talking about personal finance, I'm not going to listen.


This is the key for me. I've seen blogs where Ramsey fans make offhand comments suggesting that people primarily dislike Ramsey because he's Christian, which is way off base. I don't care that he's Christian, and honestly, to a certain extent I don't really care if he "brings religion into it". It's not inherently troublesome to me if he wants to say "God bless you" or talk about why his interpretation of Christianity informs his financial advice.

I just think he's an a-hole. Or, as tinyhands put it, "I don't like him personally, as a person."


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