alohabear, I find your posts on this thread fascinating. Thank you for sharing.

Oh, but getting back to the title of the thread, I don't think that means I have a greater need for retirement planning than men.

Yeah, I figured that out almost right away!

I have been around the military most of my life. I grew up in an army town and have spent part of my career developing big systems for the military (mostly O-5 and above in af, army, and navy at major command staff.) In my opinion the military tends to be very conservative, traditional, and old-fashioned. Many things that are routine in the military would be flat out illegal in the civilian world...as you know. There are good reasons for this including morale and supporting families. But it certainly exists.

I spent a lot of time at one of the academies at one point, not so much around cadets but with a few of the faculty. Again, I saw stuff (religious and sexist) that would never fly in a civilian university.

Did you hear about the current case where the USAF kicked out a woman for having a baby? Senior officers told her she should have had an abortion. The AF is suing her for fraud because they say being a parent makes her unable to fulfill the duties she contracted for. A male parent has never been charged with the same offense. Her case is being reviewed at the highest level. The Obama Administration is supporting her and Congressman Ryan's office has taken up her cause. So the military is unlikely to win.

But jeez, 20+ years after Tailhook, the fact that this kind of thing still goes on is pathetic.

At least as a civilian you have some rights!

Yeah, I was pretty obvious, huh? LOL.

Some of it is overt, but most anymore - on the civilian side anyway - is subtle. Most people KNOW discrimination is illegal and don't do the outright stuff you see in Mad Men, but they don't realize they have sexist attitudes simply because it's the way they were raised and that's what they've been around in the Army. Another for instance, a few weeks ago my supervisor mentioned he needed to change his beneficiary allocations (in case of death) so that his daughter was 2nd behind his wife. When I asked why his daughter would be second instead of equally split with his son, his response was, "Well, she could marry a bum and she'll need her own money." I didn't say anything, but my thought is, "Ummm, teach her to stay in school and get a good education and she won't need YOUR money either."

I have been following the story of the AF woman with interest. She's having to pay back $92k for her nursing school. And you're correct, no man (to my knowledge) has been kicked out for being a single dad. From what I understand, they still offer pregnant (married) women the option to opt out early of their enlistments when they get pregnant. Whether mandatory or voluntary, I disagree with it entirely.

Civilians do have some rights, but you have to choose your battles. You can get a reputation as a troublemaker pretty quickly that will ruin career chances just the same. In each instance I encounter, I apply the "hill to die on" litmus test. As in, is this issue the hill I'm willing to die on? In the Afghanistan situation, I was able to apply for (and recieved) a promotion back state-side, so I didn't pursue it. Wasn't the hill to die on, mainly because I created other options. When they tried to move me into a secretary position, I was ready to lay down on the wire for that one. Now I'm at the point where I need to decide how much energy and effort I want to spend on breaking through to the next level. Stinks, because I love what I do and (I say this with no arrogance) I'm good at it. It's a calling for me. I guess I'll see what life has in store.

Thanks for sharing your experiences alohabear. I'm still a little shocked that stuff like that still goes on. Guess it shouldn't be that surprising, many people resist change even if its for the better.

Yeah, and just know that some of us have never even had to resist butt-pinching because it never occurred to us to do that in the first place.

Emoore and LeRainDrop, I'm happy to share. It's not all been bad. In fact, the majority of my work experiences have been positive. And, DH, you're absolutely right. In fact, I'd say most people abhor the few butt-pinching incidences that still happen, and many people are willing to stand up and hold those people accountable. I think just like other antiquated attitudes about race, etc, outdated attitudes about gender (and hopefully sexual orientation) are heading the way of the dinosaur.

Actually, I never resisted butt-pinching because it meant better tips for me when I worked at Chippendales.

Oh wait, maybe you didn't mean on the receiving end.

I'd pinch that.

Man, don't post for a month or two, drop in and just saw a little piece (anyone that knows my normal length of posts, the was probably record small), and I see all this. As I already responded to my opinion on the topic of the OP, I won't say much more. Now if a thread was started on the difference in pay between Women and Men, I may have a few words. But I'd just like to let you all know I miss reading these boards as often as i use for the good conversations here.

Ignoring the one off's, the board is usually well controlled, and polite about sharing differing opinions, unlike many boards where its just a yelling match about how the other is wrong.

Here's to all the new comers and the vets who keep these boards as solid as they are. Hopefully I will start participating more again.

You know you want it...