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 Post subject: Re: I Need Help Choosing and Applying for a Credit Card
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:22 am 

Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:13 am
Posts: 1
If she hasn't done so, why not have your wife add you as an AU to her furniture card that she has already? Once that reports, your score should increase a bit and you can apply for either a secured credit card yourself or you could try a store card or one of the AMEX charge cards (ideally leaving at least 6 months before purchasing a house to let your score recover from the inquiry).

EDIT: I believe to maximize your FICO scoring, you should have your UTIL at 1-9%.


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 Post subject: Re: I Need Help Choosing and Applying for a Credit Card
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:07 am 

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:25 am
Posts: 665
Vintek

Time and time again you opt for advise that may be well suited for you but generally not necessarily the best advise for the person asking the question. (no doubt with the best of intentions) For example:

1) invest your inheiritance in the stock market rather then pay off your mortgage.
2) use your credit cards and play the rewards game: of course being perfect you pay them off every month and never pay any interest. Unfortunately most people are not perfect and do not pay them off each month. I humbly suggest you google "average consumer debt" in the US. Then study the numbers it's all pretty scary stuff! The average cc debt for people who cary a balance is over $15,000. I'll bet they pay close to 3 grand in interest each year too.

The point is that the gentlemen here stated that he had made mistakes before. While I am sure he has matured (as we all do) Would you suggest a person with a prior gambling issue visit the casinos? Of course not. Empathy is the art of listening and putting yourself in the other persons shoes and offering not what works for you but what will likely work for them.

I never heard of anyone getting into credit card debt problems that never first obtained a credit card. Did you? .

All the best
RayinPenn


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 Post subject: Re: I Need Help Choosing and Applying for a Credit Card
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:35 am 

Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 8:14 pm
Posts: 1757
RayinPenn wrote:
Vintek

Time and time again you opt for advise that may be well suited for you but generally not necessarily the best advise for the person asking the question. (no doubt with the best of intentions)

You misread me. I've only used myself as an example of what could be done, given the right discipline. I have never underplayed the risk.

RayinPenn wrote:
1) invest your inheiritance in the stock market rather then pay off your mortgage.

Correct. If you are on track to pay your mortgage and are secure enough to continue doing so, why wouldn't you want that inheritance to grow?

RayinPenn wrote:
2) use your credit cards and play the rewards game: of course being perfect you pay them off every month and never pay any interest. Unfortunately most people are not perfect and do not pay them off each month. I humbly suggest you google "average consumer debt" in the US. Then study the numbers it's all pretty scary stuff! The average cc debt for people who cary a balance is over $15,000. I'll bet they pay close to 3 grand in interest each year too.

I already know the statistics. However, I've never considered "do not buy what you cannot afford" and "pay off your bills on time" to be a mark of perfection. To me, that's just common sense. If you can't do those things, you'll be in trouble even if you've paid off your mortgage.

And you never addressed the statistics on how many people don't have enough money to retire. I'd bet that it exceeds the number of people who've been foreclosed upon. And do you have any idea at all how much each year costs to delay retirement savings? It's staggering, since the largest amount of gain is from the money that's been there the longest.

RayinPenn wrote:
The point is that the gentlemen here stated that he had made mistakes before. While I am sure he has matured (as we all do) Would you suggest a person with a prior gambling issue visit the casinos? Of course not. Empathy is the art of listening and putting yourself in the other persons shoes and offering not what works for you but what will likely work for them.

I never heard of anyone getting into credit card debt problems that never first obtained a credit card. Did you? .


I have not. But at the same time, your own responses have been particularly one-note. All debt is bad is a pretty good example.

BTW, why'd you duck my question? What exactly do you do in the industry? And why do you work there if you think the industry is evil? Aren't you perpetuating its success even as you rail against it?

You know, about 35% of cardholders pay off their credit cards every month, largely to rack up rewards points and airline miles. That's not an insignificant number of people. Wouldn't it be better to get more people into that category (i.e. teaching people to use a tool) than to prevent them from getting access to that tool?


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 Post subject: Re: I Need Help Choosing and Applying for a Credit Card
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:49 am 

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:25 am
Posts: 665
Quote:
You know, about 35% of cardholders pay off their credit cards every month, largely to rack up rewards points and airline miles. That's not an insignificant number of people. Wouldn't it be better to get more people into that category (i.e. teaching people to use a tool) than to prevent them from getting access to that tool?


Thanks for making my point - so 65% do not pay off their balances! And in the US people who dont pay it off carry balances averaging $15,000. Thats 3 grand in interest a year give or take. I don't know about you but at my house we can make 3 grand go a long way. So to restate my point more than half of people who have a card will get sucked in. Why take the chance - to get some reward points? So once Again for the Average person - That's just not the safest way to play it is it?

As to my mantra that All Debt is Bad I stand by it! Had all those People who bought long forgotten toys and racked up the credit card debt took my mantra to heart they would be so much better off.

No doubt about it there are many people who just use cards as a transaction device- unfortunately they are in the minority...

Ps I can't say what I do @ big company XYZ because my firm has a strict rule about commenting on the industry..And I am blessed with a really great gig.

All debt is bad! (though not always avoidable)
RayinPenn


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 Post subject: Re: I Need Help Choosing and Applying for a Credit Card
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:59 am 

Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 8:14 pm
Posts: 1757
RayinPenn wrote:
Quote:
You know, about 35% of cardholders pay off their credit cards every month, largely to rack up rewards points and airline miles. That's not an insignificant number of people. Wouldn't it be better to get more people into that category (i.e. teaching people to use a tool) than to prevent them from getting access to that tool?


Thanks for making my point - so 65% do not pay off their balances! And in the US people who dont pay it off carry balances averaging $15,000. Thats 3 grand in interest a year give or take. I don't know about you but at my house we can make 3 grand go a long way. So to restate my point more than half of people who have a card will get sucked in. Why take the chance - to get some reward points? So once Again for the Average person - That's just not the safest way to play it is it?

As to my mantra that All Debt is Bad I stand by it! Had all those People who bought long forgotten toys and racked up the credit card debt took my mantra to heart they would be so much better off.

No doubt about it there are many people who just use cards as a transaction device- unfortunately they are in the minority...

Ps I can't say what I do @ big company XYZ because my firm has a strict rule about commenting on the industry..And I am blessed with a really great gig.

All debt is bad! (though not always avoidable)
RayinPenn

Most people (maybe 90%? 95%) aren't safe behind the wheel of a car unless properly trained and licensed. Yet we still have cars. Maybe training to handle debt before being allowed to use it is the key.

And actually, you are commenting on the industry, and have been commenting on it constantly. You're just not telling us what you do; that's the only subject you're avoiding.


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 Post subject: Re: I Need Help Choosing and Applying for a Credit Card
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:17 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:29 pm
Posts: 1596
Location: Seattle, WA
VinTek wrote:
Most people (maybe 90%? 95%) aren't safe behind the wheel of a car unless properly trained and licensed. Yet we still have cars. Maybe training to handle debt before being allowed to use it is the key.

And actually, you are commenting on the industry, and have been commenting on it constantly. You're just not telling us what you do; that's the only subject you're avoiding.


Ray is also avoiding the question of ethics; how he can work in an industry while railing against anyone using its products.


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 Post subject: Re: I Need Help Choosing and Applying for a Credit Card
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:48 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:44 pm
Posts: 275
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
stannius wrote:
VinTek wrote:
And actually, you are commenting on the industry, and have been commenting on it constantly. You're just not telling us what you do; that's the only subject you're avoiding.


Ray is also avoiding the question of ethics; how he can work in an industry while railing against anyone using its products.

I agree. Ray is essentially saying that he has no qualms violating his company's express policy, but just doesn't want them to find out he's doing it. And he doesn't want us to know the basis for his opinions either.


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 Post subject: Re: I Need Help Choosing and Applying for a Credit Card
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:41 am 

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:25 am
Posts: 665
My company does not own my mind and as long as I do not use their name I am fine; my opinions are based on what I have observed at the job and in life. The facts about credit card delinquencies, defaults and average balances carried are part of the public record. You don't need to be an insider to have the facts. Those facts tell us that easy credit, consumerism and lack of discipline has hurt all too many families, marriages and people.

As to the ethics of me working in an industry that I am critical of - I do not advocate closing the credit card industry. When I had very little money and was totally on my own - the credit card got me through some medical emergencies etc. Being critical of the industry/company you work for is as american as apple pie. Last time I checked freedom of speech was guarenteed somewhere wasn't it?

The real issue is the abuse of credit - not its availability. So yeah if someone says Ive gotten into trouble with cards before I say do not get another card..why risk it!

What is this fascination with what I do anyway? Does it matter?
lighten up already - this is just a friendly discussion, isn't it?

Hi-d-ho


Last edited by RayinPenn on Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:18 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I Need Help Choosing and Applying for a Credit Card
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:58 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:33 pm
Posts: 1131
Location: Illinois
RayinPenn wrote:
My company does not own my mind and as long as I do not use their name I am fine;

Then you should be able to tell us what it is that you do in the industry


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 Post subject: Re: I Need Help Choosing and Applying for a Credit Card
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:34 am 

Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 8:14 pm
Posts: 1757
RayinPenn wrote:
As to the ethics of me working in an industry that I am critical of - I do not advocate closing the credit card industry. When I had very little money and was totally on my own - the credit card got me through some medical emergencies etc. Being critical of the industry/company you work for is as american as apple pie. Last time I checked freedom of speech was guarenteed somewhere wasn't it?

You're free to say whatever you wish. However, reading what you say is like reading what a vegetarian butcher writes -- there's a certain amount of cognitive dissonance there that we're trying to reconcile.

Also, now you acknowledge that credit cards do have a place in the world. You've never opined that before.

RayinPenn wrote:
The real issue is the abuse of credit - not its availability. So yeah if someone says Ive gotten into trouble with cards before I say do not get another card..why risk it!

I've cut and burned myself before, but it didn't stop me from cooking.

RayinPenn wrote:
What is this fascination with what I do anyway? Does it matter?

Yes, it matters. But our points of view are formed by our experiences. We've been pretty open about our own experiences. We'd like to know yours, so that we can understand if they are applicable to our own lives. Remember, you're the one who volunteered the information that you worked for a credit card company. I believe you did that so that it would lend you some credibility. Since you believe it's relevant, why shouldn't we follow that up with what you actually do?

RayinPenn wrote:
lighten up already - this is just a friendly discussion, isn't it?

Yes, it's a friendly discussion. Why have you been so evasive about what you do?


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 Post subject: Re: I Need Help Choosing and Applying for a Credit Card
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:15 am 

Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 8:14 pm
Posts: 1757
RayinPenn wrote:
Thanks for making my point - so 65% do not pay off their balances! And in the US people who dont pay it off carry balances averaging $15,000. Thats 3 grand in interest a year give or take. I don't know about you but at my house we can make 3 grand go a long way. So to restate my point more than half of people who have a card will get sucked in. Why take the chance - to get some reward points? So once Again for the Average person - That's just not the safest way to play it is it?

Been giving this one some thought.

I have never understated the risks associated with going for greater rewards. If you look at my posting history that whole risk/reward relationship is something I've emphasized for years here.

So tell me: since so many investors do exactly the wrong thing (buying high and selling low), do you recommend that they stay completely out of the market? Or do you recommend that they educate themselves and do disciplined investing? And if you advocate the latter, why wouldn't this apply to credit?


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 Post subject: Re: I Need Help Choosing and Applying for a Credit Card
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:57 am 

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:25 am
Posts: 665
Quote:
So tell me: since so many investors do exactly the wrong thing (buying high and selling low), do you recommend that they stay completely out of the market? Or do you recommend that they educate themselves and do disciplined investing? And if you advocate the latter, why wouldn't this apply to credit?


If you make a bad investment in the market you just lose your investment. If you pile up the credit card debt you can pay thousands in interest before your out of it. Why risk it?

Quote:
Remember, you're the one who volunteered the information that you worked for a credit card company. I believe you did that so that it would lend you some credibility.


No not credibility just so you can understand I see amazing amount of trouble people are getting with cards. And my vision is not colored by only seeing the bad ...65% carry $15K balance. For many thats a huge amount of money.

Hi-d-ho


Last edited by RayinPenn on Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I Need Help Choosing and Applying for a Credit Card
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:02 pm 

Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 8:14 pm
Posts: 1757
RayinPenn wrote:
Quote:
So tell me: since so many investors do exactly the wrong thing (buying high and selling low), do you recommend that they stay completely out of the market? Or do you recommend that they educate themselves and do disciplined investing? And if you advocate the latter, why wouldn't this apply to credit?


If you make a bad investment in the market you just lose your investment. If you pile up the credit card debt you can pay thousands in interest before your out of it. Why risk it?

Hi-d-ho

But I've never advocated piling up credit card debt. I've always advocated paying it off every month. Is there a risk that everything could go south and I wouldn't be able to pay it off. Not if I don't buy what I can't afford.

Isn't the there similar risk in taking on a mortgage? And you yourself said that taking on credit card debt helped you out of bad situations. So basically, you took what you felt was a necessary risk but feel make the pronouncement that others shouldn't. The dissonance grows louder.


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 Post subject: Re: I Need Help Choosing and Applying for a Credit Card
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:52 am 

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:25 am
Posts: 665
This is my last post on this subject...

Vintek this isn't what about what you would do; it's about what is best for the poster. He made mistakes with cards in the past and should avoid temptation -after all it so easy - just dont get a card.

Saying they should learn to use credit and all that ignores human nature. Remember 65% carry balances - that's more than half.

Would you advocate a drunk visit a bar? I suspect not!

All the best...


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 Post subject: Re: I Need Help Choosing and Applying for a Credit Card
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:21 am 

Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:49 pm
Posts: 256
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Is it really that difficult to believe that someone that had troubles in the past, has learned from those mistakes?

Hell, I thought credit cards were my way for me and my friends to drink for free through college. Racked up debt, had some go to collections. Completely destroyed my credit. I learned from that mistake, and now have 3 credit cards that get paid off each month and an 802 credit score.

Not that big of a stretch that people would learn from their mistakes.

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