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 Post subject: A Guy Thing?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:01 pm 

Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 10:10 am
Posts: 42
I'd love to hear some feedback from the gentlemen in this forum (ladies too, if you want). I am having a disagreement with my husband. I'm typically patient and I try to be understanding, so I'm looking for agreement with my side or better understanding of his.

My husband has a best friend (we'll call him Idiot) and he's known him for over 20 years. I've known him for about 15 years. Idiot has always been loyal, helpful, polite, friendly, carries in my groceries, babysits our kids, loans us books and equipment and the first to offer up his truck if we move. We have done the same for him and his wife (they have two girls). Hubby and Idiot are both computer geeks and are very, very good. They pass along tips to each other and eventually a large company hired both of them to be their IT dept. They shared an office, breakfast and lunch and company duties.

Two weeks ago, the FBI showed up at the company and arrested Idiot. They questioned Hubby but determined he was absolutely clueless about what Idiot had been up to (and he didn't know). Idiot confessed to the FBI (and later to Hubby) and is currently in jail. Depending on whether charges are State or Federal, he will be in jail for a long time. Idiot is guessing that if it goes federal, he will receive about 20 years. Even if he's not in jail for that long, he will definitely have problems finding a place to live as he won't be allowed around children. He also probably won't be able to find a job working with computers due to the nature of the crime.

After the initial shock for all of us, things are settling down. For me, this is simple. Idiot was our friend, but he isn't a friend any longer. He jeopardized Hubby by doing these crimes partly at their job. There is still some question whether our children have been involved (and I won't go into detail about the questioning we've done with them, I don't like to think of it - especially since our oldest is non-verbal) though it appears as though they were not involved (Idiot stated that they weren't involved and they haven't come up in the investigation). He is a threat to our family unit, he can't come over when he gets out of jail/prison. I don't care to ever see him again. Hubby sees things differently. He said if he doesn't remain friends with him, who will? As it turns out, their whole circle of friends has also decided to support him while he's in jail. Idiot's wife has decided this whole thing must be a mistake and she's siding with him too. Though he has been fired, they did take up money for him and put it in his commissary account. Hubby is putting money in as well.

Hubby asked about how things would be when Idiot is released and I told him Idiot could not come over, period. He looked like I had slapped him and was very upset. I'm hoping he's just upset and things will settle down over time.

But, i don't understand supporting him. There is no question about guilt, he's admitting to it and plans to plead guilty. I don't think he's receiving any psychological help. I can understand his wife being blinded, but I can't understand the mentality of a group of guys who typically have good sense. Obviously, nobody is talking about it either, so I can't ask this question at church or anywhere else I socialize. For the guys, would you support your best friend in a similar situation? And if so, why? (Seriously asked.)


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 Post subject: Re: A Guy Thing?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:10 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:01 am
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Hmm, you are asking for an opinion when we have almost nothing to base it on.

Giving your husband and Idiot the benefit of the doubt by assuming the crime is not too outrageous, perhaps more of a financial crime without victims (like tax evasion or some kind of hacking for fun), I can possibly understand not walking away from the guy.

But as you presented it, the crime sounds like he had kiddie porn or was molesting kids. In that case, nope, I can't understand why anyone would support him.

In a way though, since he seems to be getting broad support from more people than just your husband, I find myself wondering if there are mitigating factors you are not telling us.


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 Post subject: Re: A Guy Thing?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:35 pm 

Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 10:10 am
Posts: 42
I could forgive a financial crime. It was kiddie porn. (And to clarify, my husband was not involved in it though, since they were best friends and the only IT guys, he was questioned).

I've shortened the story, but not left anything out. The only person who is denying that he is guilty is his wife. She says he is innocent and that the downloads were an accident. Idiot has confessed to doing this for the past eight years (both at work and home). He told Hubby that he was relieved to be caught before he did anything worse. Nobody thinks he is innocent (other than his wife). I spoke with the agent in charge of the investigation and he didn't seem to think he was innocent either. He expressed a great deal of concern for my 6 yr old daughter (since that is apparently the age that Idiot is most attracted to). I sent him pictures of our girls so he could compare them to any unknown images they found on the numerous encrypted files that Idiot had on his computer.

But yes, that's the part I have trouble with - I don't see how anyone could support him. (I understand why his wife would have trouble and denial, but she's the only one I give a pass to in that regard).


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 Post subject: Re: A Guy Thing?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:51 pm 
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Then, no, it's not a guy thing. He needs help and I see no reason why his friends should continue to support him. Obviously it's up to them. But I think your position is entirely reasonable.


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 Post subject: Re: A Guy Thing?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:04 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:29 pm
Posts: 1627
Location: Seattle, WA
DUH! If i had a husband as obstinate as yours I might seriously consider divorcing him. Not joking. That is an unforgivable crime and direct risk to your family. There is no way Mr. Idiot is allowed within 1000 yards of your children or you. (Nor, I suspect, any school or day care.)


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 Post subject: Re: A Guy Thing?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:23 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:33 pm
Posts: 1149
Location: Illinois
I am extremely loyal to my friends and can forgive most indiscretions in time, but kiddie porn/child molesting, is not one of those things. I'd cut him out completely.


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 Post subject: Re: A Guy Thing?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:48 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:15 pm
Posts: 1201
PennyWise, I agree with concensus. Your hubby needs his head examined.


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 Post subject: Re: A Guy Thing?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:29 am 

Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 10:10 am
Posts: 42
Thanks for the assurance that I'm not completely insane. I'm hoping that my husband will come to his senses as things settle down. It's still hard for me to believe that Idiot did all of this, so I know my husband is probably still in a bit of shock. Thanks again.


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 Post subject: Re: A Guy Thing?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:31 pm 

Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:04 pm
Posts: 1
Location: usa
Depending on whether charges are State or Federal, he will be in jail for a long time. Idiot is guessing that if it goes federal, he will receive about 20 years. Even if he's not in jail for that long, he will definitely have problems finding a place to live as he won't be allowed around children. He also probably won't be able to find a job working with computers due to the nature of the crime


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 Post subject: Re: A Guy Thing?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:36 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:48 am
Posts: 526
Location: Arkansas
Pennywise wrote:
I'd love to hear some feedback from the gentlemen in this forum (ladies too, if you want). I am having a disagreement with my husband. I'm typically patient and I try to be understanding, so I'm looking for agreement with my side or better understanding of his.

My husband has a best friend (we'll call him Idiot) and he's known him for over 20 years. I've known him for about 15 years. Idiot has always been loyal, helpful, polite, friendly, carries in my groceries, babysits our kids, loans us books and equipment and the first to offer up his truck if we move. We have done the same for him and his wife (they have two girls). Hubby and Idiot are both computer geeks and are very, very good. They pass along tips to each other and eventually a large company hired both of them to be their IT dept. They shared an office, breakfast and lunch and company duties.

Two weeks ago, the FBI showed up at the company and arrested Idiot. They questioned Hubby but determined he was absolutely clueless about what Idiot had been up to (and he didn't know). Idiot confessed to the FBI (and later to Hubby) and is currently in jail. Depending on whether charges are State or Federal, he will be in jail for a long time. Idiot is guessing that if it goes federal, he will receive about 20 years. Even if he's not in jail for that long, he will definitely have problems finding a place to live as he won't be allowed around children. He also probably won't be able to find a job working with computers due to the nature of the crime.

After the initial shock for all of us, things are settling down. For me, this is simple. Idiot was our friend, but he isn't a friend any longer. He jeopardized Hubby by doing these crimes partly at their job. There is still some question whether our children have been involved (and I won't go into detail about the questioning we've done with them, I don't like to think of it - especially since our oldest is non-verbal) though it appears as though they were not involved (Idiot stated that they weren't involved and they haven't come up in the investigation). He is a threat to our family unit, he can't come over when he gets out of jail/prison. I don't care to ever see him again. Hubby sees things differently. He said if he doesn't remain friends with him, who will? As it turns out, their whole circle of friends has also decided to support him while he's in jail. Idiot's wife has decided this whole thing must be a mistake and she's siding with him too. Though he has been fired, they did take up money for him and put it in his commissary account. Hubby is putting money in as well.

Hubby asked about how things would be when Idiot is released and I told him Idiot could not come over, period. He looked like I had slapped him and was very upset. I'm hoping he's just upset and things will settle down over time.

But, i don't understand supporting him. There is no question about guilt, he's admitting to it and plans to plead guilty. I don't think he's receiving any psychological help. I can understand his wife being blinded, but I can't understand the mentality of a group of guys who typically have good sense. Obviously, nobody is talking about it either, so I can't ask this question at church or anywhere else I socialize. For the guys, would you support your best friend in a similar situation? And if so, why? (Seriously asked.)


I am a guy and Im also in law enforcement. Just from what little you have said... I already have a really good clue. If "idiot" admitted it... all bets are off. That right there is a friendship killer. Since ya'll have kids... that's even more. As a guy my first responsiblilty is to protect my family. ANYONE that jeopardizes my family will have me as an enemy and that's not something most folks want.

For me... having friends revolves around trust. Those that I call friends I can trust... I can trust them with my life, a key to my house, or my little nieces. If I cant trust you then I dont need you as a friend. From the sounds of it... you're a whole lot like me and he has abused and lost your trust.

As for your hubby saying... well if Im not his friend then who will be. They way I look at it... the idiot chose his path now he has to live with the consequences of taking that path.

Please pass this on to your hubby... I can understand you wanting to stand by a long time friend. Problem is... if your friend admitted to doing this and you still stand by him then that puts you under the gun as well. Maybe not from law enforcement, but from everyone else. I can guarantee you that folks will see it as you condoning his actions. Please distance yourself from this mess... it will only cause you and your family grief if you continue to support this guy considering what he's done. I know it's hard to walk away, but sometimes it's best. Your friend put you in this situation and he obviously didn't care about your friendship or he wouldn't have done what he did. The only person he was thinking about was himself. Now you have to think about your family. Do right by them and step away from this toxic friendship.

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I can not dwell over that to which I have no control...


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 Post subject: Re: A Guy Thing?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:20 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:31 pm
Posts: 405
I went through a similar situation, although not nearly as bad as kiddie porn. A very good friend of mine I had known for awhile was acting very immorrally, IMO, and was being investigated for statuatory rape.

This same friend had seeminlgy constantly been in trouble with the law for all kinds of various reasons. Threats, theft, etc, etc, etc...

When he told me about this, I couldnt defend him any longer. I kicked him out of my house, where he was staying after getting kicked out of his own home(he was married at the time), and told him never to come back.

It was a tough decision, but it was the right one. Havent seen or heard from him since.


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 Post subject: Re: A Guy Thing?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:18 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:16 pm
Posts: 961
My mind is balking at the response your husband is having to this situation.

Is he in a state of shock, and not thinking logically?

So what if your dd is not within the age bracket that "person" is not attracted to.

The fact that he is willing to keep a friendship with someone that does that to children is beyond vile.

Honestly this is disgusting. I am not sure I could be around him after a discussion such as this.
:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

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Be what you want to attract.


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 Post subject: Re: A Guy Thing?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:53 pm 

Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 10:10 am
Posts: 42
Thanks for the replies - sorry I haven't been around for a bit. Christmas and kids...my time has been spent with them or other family. :) I appreciate the support.

Hubby has settled down a little. All of their friends are divorced or not married so it's hard to get another female perspective from their 'group'. The more that Idiot talks to Hubby, the more bothered Hubby becomes. He is freely admitting that he is attracted to children which is disturbing to Hubby. Then came the excuses - his wife wasn't 'attentive' to his needs, he was on drugs, he was drunk, etc. Never once (as I pointed out to hubby) has he said that he was sorry for all that he put everyone through.

I'm typically easy-going but I do become a bit manic when my children are concerned. And I have some beliefs that I will not compromise. He is not allowed on my property. We will not bail him out of jail. We will not pay for a lawyer. I have no interest in having any contact with him again.

I admit that I'm uncomfortable about one thing. Idiot is very bitter that I won't allow him to live on our property while he's out on bail (he bonded out this week). We have a small guest house on our property that he had asked for. He's also upset that we didn't put up the bond or help with a lawyer. He's upset with me and has written a few letters to Hubby expressing how upset he is towards me. I would not think of him as a violent person, but I never thought of him as someone who would enjoy kiddie porn either. I told Hubby that he needed to straighten out the nasty attitude that Idiot has towards me pronto.

Oddly enough, Idiot has not contacted hubby since bailing out, although he has called all of their other friends. I told Hubby that he would probably blame me as his reason for not coming by and Hubby (thankfully) said he was getting tired of Idiot's drama.

Fantasma, to clarify, my youngest IS in the age bracket that Idiot is attracted to. Idiot says he has never actually touched a child, but I really wouldn't expect him to admit it if he did. It appears that our children have not been harmed, thank God. But, we are still taking our daughter to a counselor in January as she has been having a lot of problems and our doctors have said it is stress related (which is unusual for her age).

N2Deep - I gave Hubby your message tonight and while he didn't say anything, that's not always a bad sign. :) Thanks for your perspective.


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 Post subject: Re: A Guy Thing?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 2:07 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:48 am
Posts: 526
Location: Arkansas
Pennywise wrote:
N2Deep - I gave Hubby your message tonight and while he didn't say anything, that's not always a bad sign. :) Thanks for your perspective.


You're welcome. Sadly... I was just forced to practice what I preach. I just had to walk away from a 30yr friendship because my now ex best friend has a serious drinking problem and he is also hanging around a criminal crowd. Two nights ago he calls me at midnight 30 to come pull him out. Said he got stuck while out playing in the country. (Us rednecks like to go muddin so I didn't think much of it). I show up and it looks like something totally different and a few others that he called made it there before I did. Once they snatched him out of the mud and his front bumper off his truck... I turned around and left. I probably wasn't there 5 mins. Later he called me talking about how he learned his lesson and I ripped him a new one then thought.. he probably wont remember much so I just hung up on him. 12 hours later (almost exactly) he was arrested for DWI at 12:40 PM. He blew over twice the legal limit. He knew better than to call me for bail cause I would let him rot in there. That pretty much confirmed what I was thinking the night before. This is actually the second arrest for DWI in less than 12 mos.

Because he had a key to my house and the fact that he's been drinking so heavily (worse than I had originally thought apparently) I have had to change out all my locks. I can't say for certian that some of his new buddies hasn't gotten a copy of my key while he was drunk.

While I admit our two cases are different... the problem is still the same. Do we stand by an old friend or cut him loose due to the friendship being toxic and potentially dangerous for our familys.

I had to practice what I preach and I cut my best friend loose. He has turned into someone that I can no longer trust and someone I know longer respect. I am the type of guy that wants to surround myself with people like me. I want someone I can respect and someone that I can look up to in hopes of bettering myself. When you have a friend that turns towards the criminal element... how can you trust and respect them?

I've always had a saying... and it rings true in all aspects.

If you stand by a pile of crap long enough... you too will smell like crap.

That goes the same for friends. If you associate with friends that turn to the criminal side of things... then even if you're not doing it... you will be associated with it when people talk.

Quite frankly... I'd rather stand by a rose bush so I'll smell better than crap. :lol:

You can let your hubby know that I know it's not an easy decision to make. I just had to make it myself.... but you also have to think about your family. So far your family has been really lucky. Do you really want to play Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun. If you maintain this friendship.. that is exactly what you are doing.

For me my decision was clear (even though it was hard to make)... I had to do what was best for me and my family. I have to protect them and by having someone that is potentially drunk driving up and down our gravel road is a recipe for disaster. It's like playing Russian Roulette with that loaded gun again. If I see his truck on my road I will have him arrested and god forbid he runs over one of my family members while they are out playing. Jail would be the least of his worries.

I would like to commend you for standing by your guns and not allowing "Idiot" around you family. I know it has probably caused you some grief with your hubby. I know it may not mean much coming from a stranger... but I respect the hell out of you for doing it.

Best of luck getting past this and I hope your hubby comes around and protects his family like he should.

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I can not dwell over that to which I have no control...


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 Post subject: Re: A Guy Thing?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:10 am 
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N2Deep wrote:
If you stand by a pile of crap long enough... you too will smell like crap.


Thanks for summarizing this situation far more succinctly and eloquently than I could!

Pennywise wrote:
Hubby has settled down a little. All of their friends are divorced or not married so it's hard to get another female perspective from their 'group'. The more that Idiot talks to Hubby, the more bothered Hubby becomes. He is freely admitting that he is attracted to children which is disturbing to Hubby. Then came the excuses - his wife wasn't 'attentive' to his needs, he was on drugs, he was drunk, etc. Never once (as I pointed out to hubby) has he said that he was sorry for all that he put everyone through.

I'm typically easy-going but I do become a bit manic when my children are concerned. And I have some beliefs that I will not compromise. He is not allowed on my property. We will not bail him out of jail. We will not pay for a lawyer. I have no interest in having any contact with him again.

I admit that I'm uncomfortable about one thing. Idiot is very bitter that I won't allow him to live on our property while he's out on bail (he bonded out this week). We have a small guest house on our property that he had asked for. He's also upset that we didn't put up the bond or help with a lawyer. He's upset with me and has written a few letters to Hubby expressing how upset he is towards me. I would not think of him as a violent person, but I never thought of him as someone who would enjoy kiddie porn either. I told Hubby that he needed to straighten out the nasty attitude that Idiot has towards me pronto.


Who cares what the idiot thinks? And your husband needs to get his head out of wherever it is and get his priorities straight. He has a family to focus on and needs to distance himself from the idiot AND ANYONE WHO SUPPORTS THE IDIOT. This is not a situation where the idiot is accused of something he denies and there is doubt. The guy is the worst kind of human garbage. Why would anyone continue to support him regardless of history? And why would your husband or anyone else want to be branded as a known associate? What happens when the company they worked for decides to tighten security after this incident and fires anyone known to be associating with felons? -- they can do that for security sensitive positions including IT. He could lose his job and career just for continuing to talk to the guy on the phone or hang with the same crowd. It's a long shot of course but really not worth the potential consequences give your husband has a family to care for.

I speak somewhat from experience here. Many years ago I had to distance myself from college friends who just couldn't grow up. They weren't doing anything serious in my opinion. They just continued to party, use drugs, etc. Filling out a government security questionnaire was a real eye-opening for me and I realized my life would be investigated. And this was about 20 years ago. Things are far worse now. I told those friends my career was not worth the chance of them bringing something in my house, car, or me being associated with something they did just because we'd had a conversation on a monitored line. Criminal conviction requires evidence. Losing career opportunities only requires slight suspicion in many cases.

Seriously, N2Deep is right. Your husband needs to completely cut off the idiot and any friend who continues to associate with idiot. It sounds a little paranoid, and it is. But why would your husband risk losing his job just because he pities some sicko who he was friends with?


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