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 Post subject: Re: A Guy Thing?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:05 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:50 am
Posts: 98
I'll offer you a slightly different point of view.

From what I get from your story Idiot has not actually hurt any child himself. He's 'just' looked at kiddie porn right? Which is not a good thing, but not nearly as bad as actually hurting a kid himself. Again, it's an unfair comparison, but you wouldn't shun every guy that's ever looked at a rape porn for being a rapist either.

So yes, obviously you need to make sure to need give Idiot time alone with your kids. Keeping them save is your first responsibility. But on the other side, it's also a psychological thing. Idiot can not help himself being attracted to kids. Really, it's like being straight or gay, or asexual. It's the way a person is. So in itself it's not a problem that he's attracted to kids. The main problem is, is that he's acted on it, by downloading kiddie porn. And not just once or twice but over a period of years and at work as well. Which is the second problem; he's discredited your husband as well in the process.

But that is more your husbands problem than yours, and apparently he doesn't see it as as big a problem as you do. So is there actually a problem with them staying friends? I don't see the problem... Yes, you've got to be sure he won't be alone with your kids, but did that really happen before? And I think it's not unrealistic to say you don't want him in your house as a guest (even for an evening, let alone in your guest house for a long time). But what is the problem in your husband going over and seeing him?

Try and view your response separate from your first gut feeling that he’s a horrible criminal. He’s basically still the same guy who has made a very bad mistake. One he should be, and will be punished for. But also the guy who apparently has had ample opportunity to do something to your daughter, but choose not to. A guy your husband has been best friends with for years. Is it a bad thing to want to support him for all the good he has done in all that time as well? It’s not the same as overlooking what he’s done. It’s also seeing the good behind it, and as he says himself, helping to prevent the same behaviour in the future.

As a personal insight; I’ve once caught my younger brother (then aged 18) also downloading massive amounts of kiddieporn (not 16 year olds which would be understandable at that age but 5-6). I’ve personally called the police on this and had him registered as possible sex offender, so if anything happens he’s high on a watch list. Since laws are slightly different here they couldn’t arrest him or prosecute him. (Not sure if I would’ve called the police otherwise to be honest…). My sister at the moment has two daughters of 5 and 7. And we do not worry about him being at home at the same time. Partially because we make sure he’s not alone with any of the kids for more than a minute, but also because there’s never been any actual action against a kid. It is absolutely something that’s taken into consideration, but that just helps keep a check on him. If he’d try to get a job with kids we’d absolutely call his boss, and he knows this. So it’s an extra incentive to not cross that line. I don’t know if he needs it, but that’s just to make sure.

Other than that, he’s still the same person. (Who I can’t stand as it’s my brother.)


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 Post subject: Re: A Guy Thing?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:35 pm 

Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 10:10 am
Posts: 42
Sonja,

I had my reply all typed, but the computer erased it (maybe not a bad thing lol) so here goes my second try. :)

I disagree with you completely. There is a mindset from some people to think that Child Pornography is 'just pictures' and 'no real harm' was done. I don't see it like that. Those pictures represent someone's child, someone's baby. Those children are loved by someone as strongly as I love my own children. To find pleasure and sexual gratification in their abuse and fright is about as sickening a thing as I can think of. Furthermore, if only one image 'solved' the problem, they would only have one image. But many collectors of kp are collecting multiple images. There is a constant demand for new images of children. Downloading images contributes to the demand for new ones. And there is no proof that he did not hurt any children (including mine). We have his word and no evidence that he did. Considering the fact that he babysat my kids (including my oldest who is disabled and cannot talk), that is poor comfort.

Comparing child pornography to adult rape videos is not a fair comparison. Most rape videos are staged. Those that aren't are disgusting as well, but in a different category that rape of someone who is vulnerable. And yes, I would shun a guy who got off on an actual rape video. I have many friends who enjoy different fetishes and I really don't care what they do in their personal life.

I understand that he can't help his attraction. However, he is an adult (43 yrs old) and knows better. And he's not blaming 'himself'. He's blaming an inattentive wife, drug and alcohol use, etc.

I don't want my husband around him period. And I plan to do everything I can do to break up their friendship. He is a threat to my family and I don't tolerate threats to my children's well-being (which includes more than just their safety). However, I currently tolerate my husband's efforts to remain friends with him and that includes visiting him, putting small amounts of money in his commissary account, sending him phone cards. It does not include offering a place to stay, paying for his attorney or sending large amounts of money.

He is a horrible criminal who has committed a horrible crime. I compare this to a divorce situation. We had a great time with him, but he's changed and things are different now. My biggest wish is that he will go far, far away for a long, long time.

He only feels bad about being caught and that his wife might divorce him (and thankfully it looks like she will, possibly because she found out about his girlfriend).

Quote:
But also the guy who apparently has had ample opportunity to do something to your daughter, but choose not to.

Really? I should be grateful towards him that he chose not to rape my kids? He deserves my support because he decided to look at other innocent children naked but not my own? Children should NEVER have to worry about their safety from an adult.


Last edited by Pennywise on Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: A Guy Thing?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:47 pm 

Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 10:10 am
Posts: 42
Doing Homework - my concern about what Idiot thinks is based solely in that I'm uncomfortable about my safety. I feel like I'm the sole barrier between my husband helping him financially and offering him a place to live. (And yes, I have expressed my disappointment to my husband that he didn't handle this better). A friend of mine had an in-law in jail and she sent me a list of things that they saw after her relative went to jail (immediate conversion to religion, hints of being abused in prison, etc). Idiot has followed the list almost to perfection. He has found God, his crime was not his fault, he had a rough childhood, he's having a rough time in jail, he's sick and needs money in his account for meds, etc.

I've read the letters he sent to hubby where he encourages hubby to just do what he wants rather than listening to me. I don't like being the person standing in the middle. (Although of course, I'm not compromising my position at all).

I wish he would just disappear. I'm waiting for his trial to see what he ends up serving.

I don't think hubby is thinking of the consequences. They all went to military school together and basically felt like they only had each other as their family had given up on them. I think he's stuck in that mentality. I firmly believe this will resolve to my satisfaction at some point, but I know my husband well enough to know that I can't rush it.

Thanks for your concern. :)

N2D - Thanks for your concern as well - things will work out - it just takes time.


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 Post subject: Re: A Guy Thing?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:59 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:50 am
Posts: 98
Pennywise wrote:
I disagree with you completely. There is a mindset from some people to think that Child Pornography is 'just pictures' and 'no real harm' was done. I don't see it like that.


I have not said that there is no harm done by looking at pictures. Because by looking at those pictures you are implicitly or even explicit supporting the abuse of children. I’ve just said it’s in a different category of bad as far as I’m concerned. Like violence is in a different category from murder. Also, most people who look ad kidporn never cross the line into physical abuse of children. It's just a different category of bad.

Pennywise wrote:
Quote:
But also the guy who apparently has had ample opportunity to do something to your daughter, but choose not to.

Really? I should be grateful towards him that he chose not to rape my kids? He deserves my support because he decided to look at other innocent children naked but not my own? Children should NEVER have to worry about their safety from an adult.


Yes, in a way you should be grateful that he did not hurt your kids. Because apparently his nature attracts him to kids. And despite what his passions might have told him, he had your kids’ wellbeing, and your wellbeing in mind by not acting on it. That does not mean you have to support him. But that is a proof that there’s a good side to his character as well.

You’ve asked for a different perspective, and this is mine.


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 Post subject: Re: A Guy Thing?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:12 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:16 pm
Posts: 959
I am very dissapointed with your hubby's reaction to this. Your children and any other children come first.

I wouldn't even entertain reading any of the letters Idiot. As far as I am concerned he's a monster and needs to be contained somewhere far away from children.

He's not contrite about his actions, another big warning sign.

You are better than I for handling this situation with your hubby so well.

_________________
Be what you want to attract.


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 Post subject: Re: A Guy Thing?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:04 am 

Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:37 am
Posts: 446
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45795486/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/cops-babysitter-bludgeoned-girl-then-dismembered-her/

I know it's not directly relevant but it does have to do with a former child molester who was a trusted family friend killing his friend's grandchild. I just don't really know what your husband is thinking. I know my husband would have a very different response, possibly physical to finding out what he was up to. And my husband is a real softie in many respects. His friend crossed a line, sorry he would be on his own.


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 Post subject: Re: A Guy Thing?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:59 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:59 pm
Posts: 21
Location: India
Pennywise wrote:
I'd love to hear some feedback from the gentlemen in this forum (ladies too, if you want). I am having a disagreement with my husband. I'm typically patient and I try to be understanding, so I'm looking for agreement with my side or better understanding of his.

My husband has a best friend (we'll call him Idiot) and he's known him for over 20 years. I've known him for about 15 years. Idiot has always been loyal, helpful, polite, friendly, carries in my groceries, babysits our kids, loans us books and equipment and the first to offer up his truck if we move. We have done the same for him and his wife (they have two girls). Hubby and Idiot are both computer geeks and are very, very good. They pass along tips to each other and eventually a large company hired both of them to be their IT dept. They shared an office, breakfast and lunch and company duties.

Two weeks ago, the FBI showed up at the company and arrested Idiot. They questioned Hubby but determined he was absolutely clueless about what Idiot had been up to (and he didn't know). Idiot confessed to the FBI (and later to Hubby) and is currently in jail. Depending on whether charges are State or Federal, he will be in jail for a long time. Idiot is guessing that if it goes federal, he will receive about 20 years. Even if he's not in jail for that long, he will definitely have problems finding a place to live as he won't be allowed around children. He also probably won't be able to find a job working with computers due to the nature of the crime.

After the initial shock for all of us, things are settling down. For me, this is simple. Idiot was our friend, but he isn't a friend any longer. He jeopardized Hubby by doing these crimes partly at their job. There is still some question whether our children have been involved (and I won't go into detail about the questioning we've done with them, I don't like to think of it - especially since our oldest is non-verbal) though it appears as though they were not involved (Idiot stated that they weren't involved and they haven't come up in the investigation). He is a threat to our family unit, he can't come over when he gets out of jail/prison. I don't care to ever see him again. Hubby sees things differently. He said if he doesn't remain friends with him, who will? As it turns out, their whole circle of friends has also decided to support him while he's in jail. Idiot's wife has decided this whole thing must be a mistake and she's siding with him too. Though he has been fired, they did take up money for him and put it in his commissary account. Hubby is putting money in as well.

Hubby asked about how things would be when Idiot is released and I told him Idiot could not come over, period. He looked like I had slapped him and was very upset. I'm hoping he's just upset and things will settle down over time.

But, i don't understand supporting him. There is no question about guilt, he's admitting to it and plans to plead guilty. I don't think he's receiving any psychological help. I can understand his wife being blinded, but I can't understand the mentality of a group of guys who typically have good sense. Obviously, nobody is talking about it either, so I can't ask this question at church or anywhere else I socialize. For the guys, would you support your best friend in a similar situation? And if so, why? (Seriously asked.)

If I would have been in such a situation I would definitely have stop contacting such a Idiot, not just because he has committed the sin, but he has betrayed my trust. He is a stigma in the name of friendship.
The reason why your hubby was supporting him at start was because, their friendship was more than 20 years old and said that, you can imagine the level of trust your hubby might be having on him, and your hubby might have got shocked from such a commitment from his friend whom he believed the most all this years, and more over he might not be in a position to think what should be done.
But, as the time passes and things get settled down, you choose a good day to sit with your husband to make him understand the situation and try to convince him to stop contacting that idiot.


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