Hi everyone,

I’m 26 years old and I will be entering a PhD program in the fall. Unfortunately, I am not getting full funding for attending the program – I will receive about partial tuition remission and a small stipend. I will need to take out loans mainly for living expenses (rent, utilities, phone, food, etc.) since I will be living in a major city (but I’ll need to use some money towards tuition). I anticipate that I will need at least 20K alone for living expenses for 4 years, maybe 5. The profession I am in has an ok/good outlook so I anticipate making at least 50K a year once I graduate several years from now. As a condition of my fellowship, I cannot have any outside employment while I’m studying.

I am blessed that I do not have any loans (school, car, etc.) right now so I just have to worry about the upcoming loans for my PhD program. I pay off my credit card every month. However, I do not have any savings since I’ve been living paycheck-to-paycheck for the past few years.

The reality of my situation is sobering and I want to make sure I can prepare for the future (emergency funds, retirement, miscellaneous savings for short-term goals, etc.). I'm willing to look into other ways of generating income that can help me achieve this goal. But I have absolutely no idea where to start - I am kind of overwhelmed with all of the information out there! I don’t know if I should invest in stocks, just put whatever I can into savings, look into mutual funds, maybe not do anything at all since I’ll be taking out loans…? I have no clue what to do. What would you do if you were in my situation? Thank you!

A couple of questions for clarification:

How much debt will you have after finishing the degree program (4 to 5 years)?

How much of the expenses ($cash not % percentages) will your scholarships cover?

You really have two basic solutions: Add income or cut expenses.



Unless there is some loophole adding income is not an option. That leaves cutting expenses.

1) Are you on a budget? If not you need to get on one. Your choices these next few years will determine how long it will take you to dig yourself out of this debt you will incur.

2) Save for an emergency fund. $1000-$2000 would be a good idea. Emergencies will happen. Credit cards are not the answer.

3) You're going to have to cut expenses. Do you have a roomate(s) to share living expenses with? Can you ride a bike or take public transportation to class? Check out this thread about saving money.

4) Investments? Right now you need to get through this degree program. I'm sure others will disagree but other than an E-Fund you really don't need to be saving right now. Survival and good money management are the keys.

Tuition (for the entire program) would probably amount to $30K total (including my fellowship). The stipend amount is negligible and would go towards books and rent money. Unfortunately, the amount I anticipate I'll be paying for rent, utilities, etc. will be ... 25K per year for 4 years (it hurts to write that). So in total, I probably will come out with 130K when all is said and done.

Thanks for being honest. I will look into getting a roommate...I was making plans to move in with my friend but she backed out unexpectedly so my rent figure above was estimated based on a studio apartment. Cutting expenses it is!

I know it's probably not what you wanted to hear. But the good news is by the time you're done you should be pretty marketable. What area of study is your degree in?

A) 25k per year? Might be useful to get a breakdown of that. That way we can look at areas that can be cut down. What does your budget look like? Will you recieve the loans once a month? Or at the beggining of the semester/year? If so what date? Here's a little sample budget to get you started (I apologize ahead for the formatting as the forum makes tables a bit difficult) :

Notes: I divided your expenses into fixed expenses and variable expenses. I also added Savings - Books as a category to save for the following semesters books. I assumed $2000 income for living expenses (loan) and $625 income (loan) for tuition.

Expense ----------------------------------------------- Budgeted --------- Actual ---- Notes & Due Date (If Applicable)
1. Fixed and/or Re-Occurring Expenses
1a. Savings – Emergency Fund ----------------------- $210.00 -------------- 2BD ------------ 1st
1b. Savings – Books ----------------------------------------- $100.00 -------- 2BD ----------- 1st
1c. Rent ---------------------------------------------------- $500.00 -------- 2BD ------------ 1st
1d. Utilities – Water ------------------------------------ $40.00 ---------- 2BD ------------- 15th
[i]1f. Utilities – Electric --------------------------------- $100.00 --------- 2BD ------------ 15th
Total Variable Expenses ----------------------------- $950.00 ------------ 2BD --------

2. Variable Expenses
[i] 2a. Gifts/Charity ----------------------------------- $10.00 ------------- 2BD ---------
2b. Groceries ---------------------------------------- $400.00 ------------ 2BD --------
2c. Eating Out ----------------------------------------- $50.00 ----------- 2BD --------
2d. Gas ------------------------------------------------- $100.00------------ 2BD --------
2e. Car Insurance ------------------------------------ $80.00 ------------ 2BD --------- *You can get a discount by paying this 6 months at a time.
2f. Cell Phone ---------------------------------------- $60.00 ------------ 2BD ------
2g. Internet ------------------------------------------- $50.00 ------------ 2BD ------
2h. Entertainment ---------------------------------- $50.00 ------------ 2BD ------
2i. Books ---------------------------------------------- $200.00 ----------- 2BD ------
2j. Tuition -------------------------------------------- $625.00 ------------ 2BD ------
2k. Miscellaneous ----------------------------------- $50.00 ------------- 2BD -------
Total Variable Expenses --------------------------- $1675.00 ------------ 2BD --------

Total Expenses -------------------------------------- $2,625.00 ---------- 2BD -----
Total Income ----------------------------------------- $2,625.00 ----------2BD ------
Difference ------------------------------------------------ $0.00



B) What state/country do you live in? Definitely get a roomate. Maybe even get two or three. It will cut your expenses significantly and you will likely be able to afford a better place (an actual house?). Try craigslist and make sure to get references.

C) How much time do you think (from speaking to your advisor and other students) will be taken up with studies? Are you writting a thesis eventually?

D) Even though you're not supposed to "work" (I assume a 9-5 job) per say are you allowed to do other things like yard work, cleaning houses/businesses, walk neighbors dogs, babysit kids, tutor students, resell items on eBay?

F) Also are you allowed to consider or are you currently invovled with a "work-study" program offered through your educational institution?

Hope this helps. Thoughts?

The table you made is great! I’m going to print this out and lay everything out on the table so I can figure out how I can survive in grad school lol

Anyway, I’ll be going to NYC to get a degree in psychology. I hope that with a post-doctoral fellowship I can make myself more marketable. However, the field itself is doing only fairly and changing quite a bit, so I don’t want to rely on my professional career as my only means of supporting myself.

The 25K a year is a high estimate, which I did on purpose to account for usual rent increases every year (since that will take up most of my loans), utilities, internet, cell phone, and other stuff. I am kind of hesitant to get a roommate because of all the potential drama and stress I might have to deal with (I don't want that to detract from my work), but I’m going to explore this option anyway. I appreciate your being so thorough – the questions you are asking are ones I have, too; the school should contact me soon with more information about those things. I think I’ll be getting the money at the beginning of the school year, so I’ll have to use that for the whole 12 months.

When I was looking for a place, I was thinking about buying a house instead and not renting. I figured since I’ll be living in this place for a long time, it would make sense to get a house with multiple rooms - live in one room, and rent the others out. But I turned down the idea because I didn’t want to deal with the headache of being a landlord and dealing with more problems related to Murphy's Law (things breaking down, etc.).

Classes and related work might run for around 20 hours a week. I would also be required to work for the university a few days a week (2 – 3 days) for my fellowship. The program requires a master’s thesis and a dissertation, which will take up quite a bit of time. Either way, I think it would be a good idea to look into selling stuff on Ebay and doing little things to help pay the bills.

This was DEFINITELY helpful. I’m going to sit down and explore the numbers now. Thank you!

You're welcome. I'm not going to lie it took 5 min to make in excel and then a long time to adjust for the forum. But now I have a sample budget to work off of whenever other posters have questions about budgeting... Well worth the effort if it helps get you (and potentially others) on the right track. Can you think of other items I may have left out of the budget for future reference?



This is interesting. Well I know several counselors who charge like $100-$300 an hour so if you can build up a clientele/practice or get on with an experienced counselor/shrink you can probably do well. Do have a particular area of interest yet? What was your undergrad in?

In fact my father in law is a counselor and has been for 25 years. Of course, just like in anything else it takes being at the right place at the right time, networking, and putting forth your best effort. You will be a small business owner and that means putting in long hours as a counselor/shrink.



I hear you on the drama and stress of roommates. I had a roommate for 2 years who was a family friend. By the time we parted ways it was a very strained relationship. But craigslist combined with references might be worth a try. Perhaps a roommate or roommates not the first year but maybe after you've met some people from the university and made some friends? Or do you know anyone there now? Yes, having more information will be helpful in making a plan.

I kind of figured that it would be a lump sum. I divided out the 30,000 by 4 years and then divided again by twelve months to arrive at $625 allocated for every month. Or (($30,000/4)/12 = $625) Similar for the monthly living expenses except I used $24,000 for the sake of simpler math. Or ($24,000/12 = $2000)



Yes, there is the headache of being a landlord. Not to mention with no real income paying payments on a home and the possibility of getting bad renters might be a difficult combination.

I'm not trying to be a mercenary or anything but what is your social/marital status? Just trying to think outside the box. Having a significant other during this time would be very beneficial. My mother in law taught for 5 or 6 years while my father in law was in grad school.



Glad I could help. So the work at the university 2-3 days will that be paid or more a practicum (counseling, sessions, etc.)?

You are asking the right questions. I worked on my graduate degree for about 4 years so I can tell you it's not easy but you can do it. Of course, I had few scholarships and worked 50-60 hours per week. But afterwards I got a job in a different, fantastic industry (one I had dreamed of all my life) making time and a half what I was making before... Plus this job is a career. No matter what people tell you education gives you a greater chance of success in life. Have a great rest of the day!

Are you kidding? Almost everyone ignores those kinds of rules because they are ridiculous.

My suggestion is to look for a job and not worry too much about it. If you only need to earn a few thousand a year you ought to be able to do it on the sly.

And don't give me any lip about the morality or integrity of ignoring the rules. Any organization these days that puts that kind of provision on a fellowship is dooming the student to loans and that is truly reprehensible. Unless they are also offering employment for pay in addition to the fellowship, I would not think twice about it.

If you are that concerned you could look into the legality of such a provision. It is not even legal in many states unless they meet certain tests.

Considering the OP will have scholarships it would be important to look into consequences of breaking the outside employement condition.

DH don't you work at a university?

After consideration I agree making money (cash) on the side would probably be very prudent. Classes and related work should only take up 20 hours a week according to the OP.

Mowing yards, walking dogs, babysitting, cleaning houses, tutoring, running errands for the elderly, craigslist freelance work, giving plasma (if you can stand that sort of thing), reffing games, having your own eBay business, etc. all could be possible job opportunities.

Yes I do work at a university.

You clearly should look into any consequences but also take them with a grain of salt. They can put all sorts of restrictions but that does not mean they are valid.

it will depend on the advisor that TBY selects, as that person will essentially be TBY's supervisor for the duration of the phd program. not that a specific consult is needed to conduct outside activities, but each advisor will set the expectations for acceptable progress for their research group members.

i was able to swing mystery shopping (mostly for free food) but not much else. the hours in a research-based program are extremely demanding. as well they should be, a phd is not something you just have handed to you for waiting around long enough. bottom line, classes and associated work are a minuscule fraction of the work load and 20 hours per week is nowhere near realistic to publish the papers and write the required documents.

TBY, you're looking at probably 5+ years in a very expensive area. excluding roommates from your financial plan is going to hurt you badly in the long run if you are living on loans. share the living expenses, if your roommate sucks find another one. you may find you're not at home much anyway. perhaps another student in your program would be a reasonable roommate to get started.

i suggest you dig very hard to find out the experiences of others in your program in terms of finding permanent jobs post-degree. you might not be making big bucks for some time, and the fewer loans you take out the less pain you'll feel later.

Yep, you are right. If you have the qualifications and can market yourself well, you can make upwards of $150-200 per session. But, there is a tremendous amount of competition now, especially from mid-level practitioners (MA/MS level counselors) who don’t charge as much per hour, so rates have gone down in general. Malpractice insurance is also something to consider and just being a part of an insurance panel is a huge headache from what I’ve heard. And, unfortunately, clients don’t always show up so you can’t depend on that as a consistent income stream. Anyway, I do have a subspecialty I’m interested in, which is why I am looking into doing a post-doc. (I also got my undergrad degree in psychology.)



I’m not sure how marriage will fit into my life in the next few years…but I don’t know if that will help. If I got married, wouldn’t I inherit my SO’s debt (student loans, etc.)?



It will be a little of both.



Yeah, it’s really tough and that’s why I’m kind of freaking out about this. No one in my program wants a roommate. I don’t live an extravagant lifestyle right now at all and am pretty temperate in my spending, save a few nice things here or there. I’m really concerned that I’ll be past 30 and scouring for a job. I don’t want to put all of my eggs in one basket, which is why I think it would be prudent to be open to other means of supplementing my income apart from my professional career.

I was initially looking to live in area X because it is slightly more geared towards people my age and there are many things to do, but it is slightly more expensive. I think I will look into other areas that aren't so expensive now. I guess I just don't want to be miserable and isolated in another area, you know?

As far as getting a side job goes, I have heard of students at other programs keeping a waitressing job or something on the side. The thing is that if they find out about it they can take away your funding at the very least – which would really hurt me financially. Also, based on what I’ve heard, the other students are taking out loans to support themselves too. I hope things work out.

Academia is ridiculously corrupt and political. Grad students and PhD candidates are frequently treated like indentured servants for 5+ years. I know a person whose professor pays her employees more by giving them extra titles in order to keep them. Golden handcuffs.

The rules don't make any sense, it's essentially the largest and oldest corporation in the US (that is also a part of the state if its public) and behaves as you would expect.

How did the rest of the month go TBY100?

The last remark really left an impression on me and made me do a lot of thinking about my life/career goals. The “golden handcuffs” comment is true and it sort of initiated a paradigm shift. I was just wondering why I should put myself more into debt, be responsible for thousands upon thousands of dollars of interest, in exchange for the minute possibility that I’d get a tenure track position later on. Grad students are expected to be indentured servants for at least half a decade of their lives and I don’t think that’s reasonable or fair. I do not take a liking to exploitation. The rules do not make sense.

But maybe my bitterness is exacerbated by my anxiety. I’ve been so worried about expenses and how I’m going to support myself that I can’t sleep at night. I met with a broker who was going to help me get an apartment … for a $2000+ commission. He was so incompetent I dropped him and I pray that I find a place on my own without going through a middleman. I’ve been spending the last month or so itemizing my potential expenses, checking out things that I’d need (computer, etc.) and spending hours each day looking for a place to live. It's nerve-wracking to say the least.