More big science news this weekend

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fantasma
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Re: More big science news this weekend

Postby fantasma » Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:16 am

kombat wrote:
Eagle wrote:Evolution is really one of the only theories that I don't believe can be verified.


:o

Uhm... we've literally seen evolution happen. We've actually observed species evolve over several generations, in a lab.


I humbly disagree with your statement Eagle, please explain why you think Evolution is really one of only theories that you don't believe can be verified when scientist have tracked nature not only in its habitat but in a lab as well. I am interested without any sarcasm just incredulous at the statement/opinion.
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VinTek
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Re: More big science news this weekend

Postby VinTek » Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:21 pm

fantasma wrote:
Eagle wrote:Evolution is really one of the only theories that I don't believe can be verified.

I humbly disagree with your statement Eagle, please explain why you think Evolution is really one of only theories that you don't believe can be verified when scientist have tracked nature not only in its habitat but in a lab as well. I am interested without any sarcasm just incredulous at the statement/opinion.

Fantasma, I don't think you're going to get a reply on this one. But in the meantime, Bill Nye (The Science Guy) had something to say on this very subject. Note that "the point of his video wasn’t to attack religion, but to highlight the scientific proof behind evolution."

fantasma
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Re: More big science news this weekend

Postby fantasma » Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:46 pm

VinTek wrote:
fantasma wrote:
Eagle wrote:Evolution is really one of the only theories that I don't believe can be verified.

I humbly disagree with your statement Eagle, please explain why you think Evolution is really one of only theories that you don't believe can be verified when scientist have tracked nature not only in its habitat but in a lab as well. I am interested without any sarcasm just incredulous at the statement/opinion.

Fantasma, I don't think you're going to get a reply on this one. But in the meantime, Bill Nye (The Science Guy) had something to say on this very subject. Note that "the point of his video wasn’t to attack religion, but to highlight the scientific proof behind evolution."

I saw the Bill Nye article, too bad Eagle. This could have been an enlightening debate.
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DoingHomework
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Re: More big science news this weekend

Postby DoingHomework » Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:15 pm

fantasma wrote:I saw the Bill Nye article, too bad Eagle. This could have been an enlightening debate.


From the Nye piece:

"Your world view becomes self inconsistent"

That's what I've been trying to say. Self-consistency is extremely important. But there are entire classes of people that are simply not bothered by inconsistency. Some religious people, apparently like Eagle, fall into that category. I think it is because the bible is not self-consistent and as soon as that becomes an issue everything falls apart. Other religious people find ways to reconcile the scientific fact of evolution with their beliefs. It's all personal preference.

Personally religious beliefs do not "bother me." As I have said before, I see plenty in nature that we can't explain that leaves room for supernatural powers. My disbelief in those powers is no more "right" than someone's belief in them.

But when it comes to self-consistency, I am quite bothered by it, like Nye seems to be. The ability to think requires that inconsistencies be resolved. You can't have 2+2=P and 2+2=Q unless P and Q are the same. I view acceptance of self-inconsistency as a sign of lack of intelligence.

If Eagle or anyone else wants to engage in a debate about whether humans arose from organic slime then later from monkeys, we can discuss that based on the evidence and the processes of science. But he avoids that debate without explaining why. I think it is because deep down he knows that we did evolve from slime but he has to cling to his views that we didn't because others have told him to.

The ironic thing is that, as Nye alludes to, the theory of tectonics is also a scientific theory that challenges ancient religious teachings. There is actually far less and less convincing evidence for it than evolution. It also completely refutes some "facts" in the bible. Application of that theory though led to oil and mineral discoveries that enriched a lot of conservatives so they seem to accept it.

Were it not for tectonics, Texas would not have oil. Were it not for plate tectonics theories and speculation based on science, no one would have thought to look there. But the guys that believed in the scientific theory got rich. In my lifetime, tectonics has gone from "who could believe such lunacy" to "who could not believe it." We're stuck in the first state with evolution.

VinTek
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Re: More big science news this weekend

Postby VinTek » Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:45 am

fantasma wrote:I saw the Bill Nye article, too bad Eagle. This could have been an enlightening debate.

I don't think so. Read the original Obamacare thread that Eagle started, and see if you don't come to a different conclusion. As to why this happens, see the thread I started on human behavior.


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