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 Post subject: Re: A One-Term Proposition? Do we accept?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:21 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 10:05 am
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NBC news:

Quote:
France to shutter embassies, schools over new Muhammad cartoon

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/19/13958548-france-to-shutter-embassies-schools-over-new-muhammad-cartoon

By NBC News' Nancy Ing and wire reports
France said it would temporarily close its embassies and schools in 20 countries Friday after a satirical magazine in Paris published insulting cartoons of the Muslim prophet Muhammad, a move it fears will add “fuel to the fire” of global tensions over an anti-Islam film.

The French government, which had urged the weekly not to print the cartoons, said it was shutting embassies and schools as a precaution on Friday, when protests sometimes break out after Muslim prayers.

“We have indeed decided as a precautionary measure to close our premises, embassies, consulates, cultural centers and schools,” a Foreign Ministry spokesman told Reuters. Riot police were also sent to the offices of the weekly magazine, Charlie Hebdo.

Advertise | AdChoicesArab League Secretary-General Nabil Elaraby called the drawings outrageous but said those who were offended by them should "use peaceful means to express their firm rejection".

Tunisia's ruling Islamist party, Ennahda, condemned what it called an act of "aggression" against Muhammad but urged Muslims not to fall into a trap intended to "derail the Arab Spring and turn it into a conflict with the West".

In the northern Paris suburb of Sarcelles, one person was slightly hurt when two masked men threw a small explosive device through the window of a kosher supermarket. Police said it was too early to link the incident to the cartoons. One small local Muslim group filed a legal complaint against the weekly but there were no reports of reaction on the streets of France.

The acting head of Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood said French courts should deal with the case as firmly as it dealt with a magazine that published topless photographs of the U.K.'s Duchess of Cambridge.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The publication came amid widespread outrage over a crude, provocative film, made by anti-Islam campaigners in California, that mocked the Prophet and ignited days of deadly protests including an attack in Libya in which U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens was killed.

The front-page cartoon had the figure in a wheelchair saying "You mustn't mock'' under the headline "Untouchable 2," a reference to a hugely popular French movie about a paralyzed rich white man and his black assistant.

US Muslims walk tightrope, denouncing both violence and anti-Islam film

Charlie Hebdo's Paris offices were fire bombed last November after it published a mocking caricature of Muhammad.

Many Muslims consider any representation of Allah or Muhammad offensive.


Time to beef up our security. Or might be a good time to pull out?

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~ Eagle


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 Post subject: Re: A One-Term Proposition? Do we accept?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:28 pm 
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Eagle wrote:
VinTek wrote:

I just think it's great when you guys get all worked up over FN. :rofl:


So you are trolling.


No I'm not trolling. I do find it amusing that you and others don't like FN. That is all. Because FN is the station I like the most I like getting others perspectives on the subjects they present. So while there may be some FUD mixed with facts I will still post the news I find interesting at my discression.

Here's this clip to kind of go along with the Muslim violence issue:

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1852035993001/wh-us-consulate-assault-was-terrorist-attack/?playlist_id=86858

Oh, and while they might be considered attractive, I don't think the host or guest are much of a distraction.

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 Post subject: Re: A One-Term Proposition? Do we accept?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:38 pm 
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Eagle wrote:
What is the Obama administration doing? See next post about France. Maybe we should take a hint from their government that things are going from bad to worse?


What would you have the administration do? Seriously. Do you want to bomb Libya now? This president has shown no hesitation in using force. You can bet he will do it again if the military and intelligence agencies identify a target.


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 Post subject: Re: A One-Term Proposition? Do we accept?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:44 pm 

Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 8:14 pm
Posts: 1952
Eagle wrote:
Eagle wrote:
VinTek wrote:

I just think it's great when you guys get all worked up over FN. :rofl:


So you are trolling.


No I'm not trolling. I do find it amusing that you and others don't like FN. That is all. Because FN is the station I like the most I like getting others perspectives on the subjects they present. So while there may be some FUD mixed with facts I will still post the news I find interesting at my discression.

We basically don't like FN because they distort the facts, as we've shown time and time again. What makes us incredulous is that even after all the evidence, you swallow their stories whole. Why do you consider them a reliable source of information, given their history? And yes, you may post news from them at your discretion, but be prepared to be asked that question every time you do. It's your reputation and credibility. Post away.


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 Post subject: Re: A One-Term Proposition? Do we accept?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:18 pm 
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Eagle wrote:
Time to beef up our security. Or might be a good time to pull out?


It is time to beef up security. We are also pulling many people from our embassies in many different countries. You have to realize though that many if not most embassy employees in those countries are local citizens. We do not want to put them in danger. They have done nothing wrong. It is a bunch of whacko religious nuts in these countries that are committing these terrorist acts. I don't think the general population is these countries supports violence.

One thing I do think we should be doing is pressuring the governments to take action even if only to provide a first layer of security. But since most of those governments are very new and relatively weak, they may not be in a position to provide that security. It's a tough situation. The last thing we want to do is reignite the revolutions

As an aside, we happen to know a senior government official in the new Libyan government. He is a Libyan guy who lived here since the 1970s when he came here for college. He lived down the street from us. When the new government formed he was asked to come back and be in charge of an important government agency there. I have not talked with him since then, and he is not the president or anything but his position would be "cabinet level" in the US, but I do know that he is a good guy that would not still be there if the people around him were not trying to do the right thing. He is also very "American" after living here for around 40 years. So I believe the new government is trying to do the right thing but it is probably very difficult.


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 Post subject: Re: A One-Term Proposition? Do we accept?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:36 am 

Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:11 am
Posts: 192
Eagle wrote:
I just said I didn’t believe a species could evolve from another.

I don´t know about you, but my body bear the marks of my species once having a tale. Besides, you do realise that the whole notion of dividing living things into "species" is a human endeavour? We could define a birdsegg as a specie, different from birds, and then claim evolution made it into a bird - but we choose not to.

Eagle wrote:
And as to your claim Obama is “right” as far as the political spectrum goes please enlighten us.

I am glad to say I don´t have to; the study of political therory and philosophy by far outdates me - and even though I have studied them the depth of the field far exceeds my knowledge of it. So, if you are truly curious about it, knock your socks of studying it.

Eagle wrote:
Where is the evidence for this and how do you define “right”?

"Right" in political context is conservative, in contrast to socialism (left), with liberalism left there hanging in the middle. Pretty basic stuff this?

See "utilitarism". A sort of central part of political thoughts that opposed feudalism in Europe and its colonies during the 18:th and 19:th century. Even though the revolution and creation of your country came out of these thoughts, and even though Obama identify himself with the notion of "utilitarism", the society he governs - and have the power to change - seldom do. Regardless of past, USA is a quite conservative society, and even though you can take a president out of the conservative USA it seems hard to take the conservative USA out of a president.

Eagle wrote:
Also I'd love to hear some of your thoughts on how socialism and communism has affected other countries.

An interesting, but very complex question. A one sided conservative would no doubt claim the perfect example of socialism/communism is Khmer rouge of Cambodia, Kim dynasty of North Corea - or the Soviet union. A one sided socialist/communist might want to talk about health care in Cuba or the social and economical equality of DDR.

As for me, I am not saying high taxes and wellfare society is the only way to happiness, I simply note that looking at a list of the http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/04/happiness-world-bhutan-meeting-denmark.html, you might get that impression.

Eagle wrote:
Where are you from again?

The kingdom of Sweden, where taxes financed me learning sufficient English (and German) to communicate with the world. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: A One-Term Proposition? Do we accept?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:51 am 

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:19 pm
Posts: 1778
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Eagle wrote:
I liked the quote from Obama in redistribution from 1998.


Just out of curiosity, have any of YOUR OWN beliefs or opinions changed in the past 14 years?

This is one part of politics that has always baffled me. Why do you guys expect all your politicians to have everything completely figured out from day 1, and then NEVER be allowed to ever change any of their beliefs, even in the face of new information?

It seems to me that someone who is constantly learning, constantly evolving their position based on new facts and realities, is a GOOD thing, not something to be derided as "flip-flopping."


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 Post subject: Re: A One-Term Proposition? Do we accept?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:04 am 

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:19 pm
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Location: Ottawa, Canada
timwalsh300 wrote:
Out of curiosity, are many Canadians as perceptive of American politics as you are?


Of course, I couldn't say for sure, but it's certainly true that our media is dominated by content from the US, so we're certainly exposed to more of it than our own. Plus, it's an election year for you, but we've got over 2 more years until our next federal election, so there's simply more "hay to be made" talking about US politics at the moment.

One of Canada's comedic television personalities (Rick Mercer) used to do a segment called "Talking to Americans," where he'd take a camera and go down to the US and test USAmericans' knowledge about Canada. Some of the questions should have been easy, but the answers were hilariously uninformed, and it made for some great television. :)

What's the capital of Canada? "Toronto!" Did you hear Canada just switched to the 24-hour clock to sync up with the US? "Great!" Canada wants the US to let the Canadian Navy dock at US ports since Canada doesn't have any shoreline, what do you think about that? "Sure, why not, we're all on the same team, right?" Name a famous Canadian actor. "Uhm......" (Michael J. Fox? William Shatner? Mike Myers? Ryan Gosling? Ryan Reynolds? Pamela Anderson? Will Arnett? Dan Aykroyd? Neve Campbell? John Candy? Jim Carrey? Michael Cera? Sarah Chalke? Hayden Christensen? You get the idea).

In their defense, Canadians are exposed to far, far more US content than vice-versa, so it's by no means a fair test.


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 Post subject: Re: A One-Term Proposition? Do we accept?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:38 am 
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Thanks for sharing this guy's vlogs Northern Light. He is obviously very intelligent and not at all concerned about political correctness. This goes along the lines of conservative and liberal thinking. ;) This guy says it like it is.

The ugliest newspaper in Britain

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOgV6Fvc8wc&feature=autoplay&list=UUWOkEnBl5TO4SCLfSlosjgg&playnext=2

The Guardian - Apparently some liberals are anti-Semitic against Jews but very sympathetic to Islam. Wow what a revelation lol.

1:53 “The Guardian readers are educated, middle-class, liberal, leftist, intellectuals that inhabit a rarified bubble of hypocrisy that only they seem unaware of...” Sounds like some liberals in the U.S.

2:09 “Calls themselves liberal yet are often the most enthusiastic about censoring the opinions of others. The most illiberal thing you can do…“ Again sounds like some liberals in the U.S. Sounds like Newsweek, Time, Washington Post readers anyone?

2:47 “BBC gave a capital to Palestinians but not Israel in their Olympic guide.” And just throw in BBC hatred for Israel for kicks apparently.

3:03 “Progressive consensus – words like tolerance, fairness, diversity, and progressive no longer mean what they say… All hollowed out?” Wow.

3:47 “Golden rule for virtuous victims should never be required to take responsibility for their actions or their circumstances. It must always be someone else’s fault. The The Palestinian syndrome…” [i]

5:12 [i] "Guardian readers gravitate towards high moral ground on just about everything, because their values being leftist liberal values are automatically more virtuous than everybody else’s."
Again sounds like Newsweek, Time, Washington Post readers anyone?

Sounds like CNN to me. Artificial PC world… Lol.

The next one in the series is informative as well: American Dhimmi (Arab Spring, Persecution, Sharia law, Obama wants to be cozy with Islam & 3rd world, etc.)

Edit: to correct spelling and formatting.

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~ Eagle


Last edited by Eagle on Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:30 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: A One-Term Proposition? Do we accept?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:45 am 

Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:07 am
Posts: 201
kombat wrote:
Eagle wrote:
I liked the quote from Obama in redistribution from 1998.


Just out of curiosity, have any of YOUR OWN beliefs or opinions changed in the past 14 years?

This is one part of politics that has always baffled me. Why do you guys expect all your politicians to have everything completely figured out from day 1, and then NEVER be allowed to ever change any of their beliefs, even in the face of new information?

It seems to me that someone who is constantly learning, constantly evolving their position based on new facts and realities, is a GOOD thing, not something to be derided as "flip-flopping."


Furthermore, I don't understand the big deal with this statement (aside from it being somewhat politically sensitive). Our federal tax code is progressive which, by definition, means we have wealth transfers/redistribution of wealth. And this isn't a bad thing. You can argue and debate how much redistribution is appropriate but in my mind, arguing against it at all is archaic. In order to do that, you would really have to have some sort of actual living wage.


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 Post subject: Re: A One-Term Proposition? Do we accept?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:54 am 

Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 8:14 pm
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Eagle wrote:
Eagle wrote:
VinTek wrote:

I just think it's great when you guys get all worked up over FN. :rofl:


So you are trolling.


No I'm not trolling.

Wikipedia wrote:
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[3]extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[4] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[5] The noun troll may refer to the provocative message itself, as in: "That was an excellent troll you posted."

If it looks like a troll, walks like a troll and quacks like a troll, it's a troll. By your own admission, you like to get us worked up over FN. So basically you're looking for an emotional response. Just because you deny that you're trolling doesn't mean that you're not trolling.

And for the record (and to drag this thread back on-topic), you've never answered the question as to why you consider that documentary (or FN, for that matter), as a credible source despite all the evidence that they are not credible. Every time we systematically disprove the basis for your beliefs, you change the subject. So now it's about CNN? What's the matter, Eagle? Find yourself on the losing end of an argument again?


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 Post subject: Re: A One-Term Proposition? Do we accept?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:11 am 
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I admitted I find it amusing that people barely consider FN actual news. I still find FN a good resource and for the most part interesting to read/watch.

VinTek to be fair Northern Light first brought up the idea of conservative and liberal ideology. Thus Pat's The Gardian, CNN, BBC, etc. youtube post. Just because Pat's youtube video (first found out about this guy through NL) hits a nerve with "progressives" and "liberals" means once again you want to attack my person and belief system.

I don't have all the answers. I imagine and admitted there is some FUD in Obama 2016. However, it is a known fact that the liberal media love to discredit anything that speaks out against President Obama. Surely we can agree on that?

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 Post subject: Re: A One-Term Proposition? Do we accept?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:20 am 

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Eagle wrote:
I admitted I find it amusing that people barely consider FN actual news. I still find FN a good resource and for the most part interesting to read/watch.

Yes, but you don't demonstrate why you consider it a good resource. Amusing, I can agree with. I enjoy Rush and Sean myself, if only for the entertainment value. But you seem to be basing your belief system on what's passed off as factual there, and I can't understand that, given how much we demonstrated that they distort the facts.

Eagle wrote:
VinTek to be fair Northern Light first brought up the idea of conservative and liberal ideology. Thus Pat's The Gardian, CNN, BBC, etc. youtube post. Just because Pat's youtube video (first found out about this guy through NL) hits a nerve with "progressives" and "liberals" means once again you want to attack my person and belief system.

That post was in another thread, and you addressed it there. Why bring it into this thread? And to be fair, NL's comments were in direct response to your own here (see his quotes).

Eagle wrote:
I don't have all the answers. I imagine and admitted there is some FUD in Obama 2016. However, it is a known fact that the liberal media love to discredit anything that speaks out against President Obama. Surely we can agree on that?

I don't have all the answers either. But it seems to me that discrediting lies and distortions is a good thing, no matter what the source and no matter what the target. And when such things happen, we need to make some judgments about which sources to base our beliefs on. It would be rational to discount those sources which distort most egregiously and cast a skeptical eye even on the sources we deem most reliable. Surely we can agree on that?


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 Post subject: Re: A One-Term Proposition? Do we accept?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:08 am 

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And this morning, http://news.yahoo.com/joke-photo-fox-suggests-obama-met-pirate-194154000.html popped up to remind me why I can't take Fox News seriously.


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 Post subject: Re: A One-Term Proposition? Do we accept?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:15 am 
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Northern light wrote:
Eagle wrote:
Where are you from again?

The kingdom of Sweden, where taxes financed me learning sufficient English (and German) to communicate with the world. :lol:


Northern, as you know, Sweden has its own right wing extremist party that is gaining prominence, Sverigesdemokraterna (SD). What do you think of this? I'm not asking whether you agree with them, I'm asking what you make of the fact that they getting an increasing amount of support from Swedes who used to be far more liberal. I have my own theories about this but I'd be curious to hear yours.

I bring this up here because two of the things that the SD wants to do are lower taxes and dismantle for of the social welfare state and also eliminate the teaching of languages besides Swedish in schools. This relates directly to Northern's comments about Sweden.


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