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 Post subject: Re: Christian people - moral guide
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:57 pm 

Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 8:14 pm
Posts: 1952
Eagle wrote:
tdelamater wrote:
In fact, it does not require a lengthy explanation.

1) Either there is a god or there is not.
2) Either this god designed and created the Universe or did not.
3) Either there is a purpose to existence or there is not.
4) Either this god intends to interact with its creation or it does not
5) Either we agree on these issues or we do not.

Now these are only the most basic of questions to answer, and really must answer these questions before we can move further.


In case it wasn't obvious I agree.

But shouldn't the answers to those questions be based on evidence? And what does that evidence say? If the basis of the evidence is the Bible, what is the evidence that it is accurate. You made a previous answer that we have the ancient texts. Even the most ancient of those original texts seem to date many years after the actual events. And there is evidence now that these texts mean something other than what was previously believed.

So in summary, how do we answer the basic questions above? Do we use evidence or not?

Or do we ignore evidence, like http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-paul-broun-evolution-hell-20121007,0,4628858.story?


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 Post subject: Re: Christian people - moral guide
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:17 am 
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"According to the latest Gallup poll, 46% of Americans think God made humans within the past 10,000 years."

That is really scary! Sorry, but believing that makes a person an idiot. There is no evidence for that and so much evidence to the contrary that believing it requires completely disengaging one's brain.

The fact that this guy, Akin, and many like them serve on the Science Committee is an embarrassment to this country.

By the way, Akin now claims that doctors routinely perform abortions on women who are not actually pregnant. What?


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 Post subject: Re: Christian people - moral guide
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:18 am 

Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 8:14 pm
Posts: 1952
On Thu Jul 12, 2012,
Eagle wrote:
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." – Albert Einstein.

"God does not play dice." – Albert Einstein.

Now it turns out, toward the end of his life in 1954,
Einstein wrote:
“The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.”

Here's http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/04/einstein-letter-set-for-auction-shows-scientist-challenging-idea-of-god-being-chosen/.


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 Post subject: Re: Christian people - moral guide
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:30 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:34 pm
Posts: 532
DoingHomework wrote:
"According to the latest Gallup poll, 46% of Americans think God made humans within the past 10,000 years."

That is really scary! Sorry, but believing that makes a person an idiot. There is no evidence for that and so much evidence to the contrary that believing it requires completely disengaging one's brain.

The fact that this guy, Akin, and many like them serve on the Science Committee is an embarrassment to this country.

By the way, Akin now claims that doctors routinely perform abortions on women who are not actually pregnant. What?


In general, I'm not an excitable person. I don't believe in conspiracy theories, and I don't usually think that my world as I know it is going to end if the "other guy" wins. That being said, the more I read about the things coming out of these people's mouths in DC, the more fear I'm starting to feel. That people so ignorant of science can serve on the House Science, Space and Technology Committee astounds me. That these same people who have literally NO understanding on how the female body works can make policy affecting women's reproductive healthcare infuriates me. And that a good portion of the nation actually agrees with these nutjobs scares the living hell out of me.


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 Post subject: Re: Christian people - moral guide
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:51 pm 

Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 8:14 pm
Posts: 1952
H. L. Menken was right.
HL Menken wrote:
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.


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 Post subject: Re: Christian people - moral guide
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:31 am 
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Tuesday, October 9, 2012

DoingHomework wrote:
"According to the latest Gallup poll, 46% of Americans think God made humans within the past 10,000 years."

That is really scary! Sorry, but believing that makes a person an idiot. There is no evidence for that and so much evidence to the contrary that believing it requires completely disengaging one's brain.


Well, I think this was discussed earlier...

Friday, September 21, 2012
Eagle wrote:

2:09 “Calls themselves liberal yet are often the most enthusiastic about censoring the opinions of others. The most illiberal thing you can do…“ Again sounds like some liberals in the U.S. Sounds like Newsweek, Time, Washington Post readers anyone?


Friday, September 21, 2012
Eagle wrote:

5:12 "Guardian readers gravitate towards high moral ground on just about everything, because their values being leftist liberal values are automatically more virtuous than everybody else’s." Again sounds like Newsweek, Time, Washington Post readers anyone?


Throw in those who watch MSNBC and CNN as well for kicks and giggles. ;)

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~ Eagle


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 Post subject: Re: Christian people - moral guide
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:45 am 
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Eagle wrote:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012

DoingHomework wrote:
"According to the latest Gallup poll, 46% of Americans think God made humans within the past 10,000 years."

That is really scary! Sorry, but believing that makes a person an idiot. There is no evidence for that and so much evidence to the contrary that believing it requires completely disengaging one's brain.


Well, I think this was discussed earlier...

Friday, September 21, 2012
Eagle wrote:

2:09 “Calls themselves liberal yet are often the most enthusiastic about censoring the opinions of others. The most illiberal thing you can do…“ Again sounds like some liberals in the U.S. Sounds like Newsweek, Time, Washington Post readers anyone?


Friday, September 21, 2012
Eagle wrote:

5:12 "Guardian readers gravitate towards high moral ground on just about everything, because their values being leftist liberal values are automatically more virtuous than everybody else’s." Again sounds like Newsweek, Time, Washington Post readers anyone?


Throw in those who watch MSNBC and CNN as well for kicks and giggles. ;)


Eagle, what's your point? Do you believe the earth is only 10000 years old?


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 Post subject: Re: Christian people - moral guide
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:57 am 
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DoingHomework wrote:
Eagle wrote:
Tuesday, October 9, 2012

DoingHomework wrote:
"According to the latest Gallup poll, 46% of Americans think God made humans within the past 10,000 years."

That is really scary! Sorry, but believing that makes a person an idiot. There is no evidence for that and so much evidence to the contrary that believing it requires completely disengaging one's brain.


Well, I think this was discussed earlier...

Friday, September 21, 2012
Eagle wrote:

2:09 “Calls themselves liberal yet are often the most enthusiastic about censoring the opinions of others. The most illiberal thing you can do…“ Again sounds like some liberals in the U.S. Sounds like Newsweek, Time, Washington Post readers anyone?


Friday, September 21, 2012
Eagle wrote:

5:12 "Guardian readers gravitate towards high moral ground on just about everything, because their values being leftist liberal values are automatically more virtuous than everybody else’s." Again sounds like Newsweek, Time, Washington Post readers anyone?


Throw in those who watch MSNBC and CNN as well for kicks and giggles. ;)


Eagle, what's your point? Do you believe the earth is only 10000 years old?


The issue I have with the concept as portrayed today of “tolerance” is that liberals want Christians to be tolerant while not tolerating Christian values or morals. It is okay to agree to disagree. ;) Sure. As long as you don’t disagree with a liberal.

Do I believe the earth is only 10,000 years old? Sure I have faith that my God created the universe in about that time. This is my opinion. Definitely not billions and billions of years. You are free to believe so. This is your opinion.

I have my values and belief system. You have yours. I present my beliefs and values. I don’t try to push my belief system on you. Yet the opposite is not true would you agree? Why must Christian values/morals often be attacked, Christians deemed idiots (or other colorful language), and simply dismissed as not having a brain?

Explain to me as a forward thinking, intelligent, logical, tolerant human being how this is tolerant behavior please?

_________________
~ Eagle


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 Post subject: Re: Christian people - moral guide
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:58 am 

Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 8:14 pm
Posts: 1952
Friday, September 21, 2012
Eagle wrote:
This guy is pretty funny btw. Thanks for sharing him Northern Light. Yet he is obviously very intelligent and not at all concerned about political correctness. This guy says it like it is.

Friday, September 21, 2012
Eagle wrote:
2:09 “Calls themselves liberal yet are often the most enthusiastic about censoring the opinions of others. The most illiberal thing you can do…“ Again sounds like some liberals in the U.S. Sounds like Newsweek, Time, Washington Post readers anyone?


Eagle wrote:

5:12 "Guardian readers gravitate towards high moral ground on just about everything, because their values being leftist liberal values are automatically more virtuous than everybody else’s." Again sounds like Newsweek, Time, Washington Post readers anyone?


Eagle wrote:
Throw in those who watch MSNBC and CNN as well for kicks and giggles. ;)

And yet you fail to address the guy's other videos. Why would you take him as a trusted source in one area but decline to address his statements in another? I fear, Eagle, that you're the kind of person who only hears what he wants to hear. That's close-minded.

Also interesting, while I've acknowledge the liberal bias of MSNBC and outlined the reasons why I believe CNN to be neutral and why I believe that, you've declined to explain why you consider FN a credible source despite queries in multiple threads about this. You yourself have failed to discredit FUD from those MSNBC and CNN yet you've seen us dispel FUD from FN multiple times. If you want people to take you seriously, you're gonna have to give as good as you get.


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 Post subject: Re: Christian people - moral guide
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:31 am 
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I'll address your post. But first I'll pose the same questions I made to DoingHomework.

Quote:
The issue I have with the concept as portrayed today of “tolerance” is that liberals want Christians to be tolerant while not tolerating Christian values or morals. It is okay to agree to disagree. Sure. As long as you don’t disagree with a liberal.

Do I believe the earth is only 10,000 years old? Sure I have faith that my God created the universe in about that time. This is my opinion. Definitely not billions and billions of years. You are free to believe so. This is your opinion.

I have my values and belief system. You have yours. I present my beliefs and values. I don’t try to push my belief system on you. Yet the opposite is not true would you agree? Why must Christian values/morals often be attacked, Christians deemed idiots (or other colorful language), and simply dismissed as not having a brain?

Explain to me as a forward thinking, intelligent, logical, tolerant human being how this is tolerant behavior please?


Thoughts?


VinTek wrote:
And yet you fail to address the guy's other videos. Why would you take him as a trusted source in one area but decline to address his statements in another? I fear, Eagle, that you're the kind of person who only hears what he wants to hear. That's close-minded.


What would you like for me to address? Honestly, I just liked the way he worded what I was thinking and trying to say. He just said it in fewer words.

VinTek wrote:
Also interesting, while I've acknowledge the liberal bias of MSNBC and outlined the reasons why I believe CNN to be neutral and why I believe that, you've declined to explain why you consider FN a credible source despite queries in multiple threads about this. You yourself have failed to discredit FUD from those MSNBC and CNN yet you've seen us dispel FUD from FN multiple times. If you want people to take you seriously, you're gonna have to give as good as you get.


Personally, I don't have time nor am I interested in pointing out how CNN is not neutral. Do the reasearch there is plenty out there. It is common knowledge. However, for the sake of argument here's a report that says that most people believe that there is a natural slant one way or the other for most major networks:

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/news-reporting-is-perceived-as-biased-though-less-agreement-on-whether-it-is-liberal-or-conservative-bias-57036137.html

You just have to wade through the various news agencies to try to get some semblence of balance on whatever news you are interested in. Woudl you agree?

If you choose not to take me seriously that's fine. ;) It won't hurt my feelings.

_________________
~ Eagle


Last edited by Eagle on Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Christian people - moral guide
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:33 am 
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Only one link per post so here's another: http://www.policymic.com/debates/6335

_________________
~ Eagle


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 Post subject: Re: Christian people - moral guide
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:05 am 

Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 8:14 pm
Posts: 1952
Eagle wrote:
Personally, I don't have time nor am I interested in pointing out how CNN is not neutral. Do the reasearch there is plenty out there. It is common knowledge. However, for the sake of argument here's a report that says that most people believe that there is a natural slant one way or the other for most major networks:

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/news-reporting-is-perceived-as-biased-though-less-agreement-on-whether-it-is-liberal-or-conservative-bias-57036137.html

You just have to wade through the various news agencies to try to get some semblence of balance on whatever news you are interested in. Woudl you agree?

If you choose not to take me seriously that's fine. ;) It won't hurt my feelings.

Ah, but I've said from the outset that an editorial bias is fine. What's not fine is outright distortions and for that, FN takes the prize. Everyone is entitled to a point of view; the thing that's wrong is when they don't don't report context. Agreed?


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 Post subject: Re: Christian people - moral guide
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:10 am 
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Eagle wrote:
Do I believe the earth is only 10,000 years old? Sure I have faith that my God created the universe in about that time. This is my opinion. Definitely not billions and billions of years. You are free to believe so. This is your opinion.

I have my values and belief system. You have yours. I present my beliefs and values. I don’t try to push my belief system on you. Yet the opposite is not true would you agree? Why must Christian values/morals often be attacked, Christians deemed idiots (or other colorful language), and simply dismissed as not having a brain?

Explain to me as a forward thinking, intelligent, logical, tolerant human being how this is tolerant behavior please?


Eagle, you are entitled to your beliefs. If you want to believe that a god exists based on faith, fine.

But the earth is older than 10,000 years. Believing otherwise means you are dumb. It is not a matter of faith, tolerance, or anything else. It is a matter of using the brain that evolution (or god if you choose to believe that) provided you to use reason to evaluate the evidence and understand for yourself what the rational and intelligent conclusion is.

The evidence for an older earth is overwhelming. The evidence for a young earth is the rambling of a few uneducated nut jobs who added up the "begats" and the dumb people who follow them.

I realize you (and maybe others) probably think this post is offensive. But my use of the term "dumb" is this context is not name calling but rather applying a technical label consistent with the dictionary definitions you seem to be so fond of.

"Dumb" means lacking intelligence, stupid.

"Intelligent" means having the faculty of reasoning and understanding.

Believing that the earth is less than a few billion years old requires the absence of reasoning and understanding and that implies a lack of intelligence. "Dumb" is a synonym for lacking intelligence. If you'd rather be called stupid then please let me know.

I would not try to tell you and your idiot brethren what to believe in church or at Sunday school but there is no reason that any of us should tolerate you spreading stupidity into our schools or government institutions. It is NOT just a matter of opinion. But your lack of intelligence probably prevents you from understanding that.


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 Post subject: Re: Christian people - moral guide
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:47 am 

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Eagle wrote:
I have my values and belief system. You have yours. I present my beliefs and values. I don’t try to push my belief system on you.


See, Eagle, that's the problem. You DO push your belief systems on others. Maybe not you specifically on this forum, but so many people who think the same way you do try to push their beliefs on the entire nation. They demand that creationism be taught in our public schools to our children. They push for "personhood" amendments that would not only outlaw abortion, but also most forms of birth control, as well as potentially criminalize miscarriage. They've denied civil rights to gay people because they interpret a 2,000 year old book that they claim is the literal word of god says homosexuality is a sin.

Yes, Eagle, you are entitled to your beliefs. But I'm getting damned sick of the psudo-outrage and feigned persecution from conservative Christians claiming their religious rights are being infringed upon.


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 Post subject: Re: Christian people - moral guide
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:12 am 
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alohabear wrote:
Yes, Eagle, you are entitled to your beliefs. But I'm getting damned sick of the psudo-outrage and feigned persecution from conservative Christians claiming their religious rights are being infringed upon.


Exactly! I don't want to tell anyone what to believe, how to practice their ritual cannibalism, who they can love and marry, or whether they should have an abortion. I just want others to stop trying to inflict their beliefs on me and the rest of the country.

- Creationism and the geology of begats are not science
- Same-sex love and marriage occur
- Women choose to wear pants, use birth control, and terminate unwanted pregnancies

If you don't like these facts then perhaps you should go live in Iran or Afghanistan where religious leaders have been allowed to influence laws.


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