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 Post subject: Re: Christian people - moral guide
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:34 pm 
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Posts: 884
Northern light wrote:
Image

A picture can say more than a thousand words.


I agree. Perhaps we shouldn't be worrying so much about understanding Christians but instead focus on truly understanding Muslims.

There is a cultural Jihad being waged in the West...

4 Stages of Islamic Conquest:



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STAGE 1: INFILTRATION


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Muslims begin moving to non-Muslim countries in increasing numbers and the beginning of cultural conflicts are visible, though often subtle.
  • First migration wave to non-Muslim “host” country.
  • Appeal for humanitarian tolerance from the host society.
  • Attempts to portray Islam as a peaceful & Muslims as victims of misunderstanding and racism (even though Islam is not a ‘race’).
  • High Muslim birth rate in host country increase Muslim population.
  • Mosques used to spread Islam and dislike of host country & culture.
  • Calls to criminalize “Islamophobia” as a hate crime.
  • Threatened legal action for perceived discrimination.
  • Offers of “interfaith dialogue” to indoctrinate non-Muslims.

How many nations are suffering from Islamic infiltration? One? A handful? Nearly every nation? The Islamic ‘leadership” of the Muslim Brotherhood and others wish to dissolve each nation’s sovereignty and replace it with the global imposition of Islamic Sharia law. Sharia law, based on the koran, sira and hadith, condemns liberty and forbids equality and is inconsistent with the laws of all Western nations. As the author and historian Serge Trifkovic states:

“The refusal of the Western elite class to protect their nations from jihadist infiltration is the biggest betrayal in history.”


STAGE 2: CONSOLIDATION OF POWER


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Muslim immigrants and host country converts continue demands for accommodation in employment, education, social services, financing and courts.
  • Proselytizing increases; Establishment and Recruitment of Jihadi cells.
  • Efforts to convert alienated segments of the population to Islam.
  • Revisionist efforts to Islamize history.
  • Efforts to destroy historic evidence that reveal true Islamism.
  • Increased anti-western propaganda and psychological warfare.
  • Efforts to recruit allies who share similar goals (communists, anarchists).
  • Attempts to indoctrinate children to Islamist viewpoint.
  • Increased efforts to intimidate, silence and eliminate non-Muslims.
  • Efforts to introduce blasphemy and hate laws in order to silence critics.
  • Continued focus on enlarging Muslim population by increasing Muslim births and immigration.
  • Use of charities to recruit supporters and fund jihad.
  • Covert efforts to bring about the destruction of host society from within.
  • Development of Muslim political base in non-Muslim host society.
  • Islamic Financial networks fund political growth, acquisition of land.
  • Highly visible assassination of critics aimed to intimidate opposition.
  • Tolerance of non-Muslims diminishes.
  • Greater demands to adopt strict Islamic conduct.
  • Clandestine amassing of weapons and explosives in hidden locations.
  • Overt disregard/rejection of non-Muslim society’s legal system, culture.
  • Efforts to undermine and destroy power base of non-Muslim religions including and especially Jews and Christians.

Is there a pattern here? Theo van Gogh is murdered in the Netherlands for ‘insulting’ Islam; the Organization of the Islamic Conference demands ‘anti-blasphemy’ laws through the United Nations; France is set afire regularly by ‘youths’ (read Muslims); the rise of (dis-) honor killings…holocaust denial…anti-Semitism…deception re the tenets of Islam; hatred toward Christians and Jews and Hindus and Buddhists. The pattern for all to see is the rise of Islamic intolerance and the covert/cultural jihad to remake host societies into sharia-compliant worlds – to remove host sovereignty and replace it with Islamic sharia law. Sharia law that condemns earthly liberty and individual freedom, that forbids equality among faiths and between the sexes, that rejects the concept of nations outside the global house of Islam, that of dar al-Islam.


STAGE 3: OPEN WAR w/ LEADERSHIP & CULTURE


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Open violence to impose Sharia law and associated cultural restrictions; rejection of host government, subjugation of other religions and customs.
  • Intentional efforts to undermine the host government & culture.
  • Acts of barbarity to intimidate citizens and foster fear and submission.
  • Open and covert efforts to cause economic collapse of the society.
  • All opposition is challenged and either eradicated or silenced.
  • Mass execution of non-Muslims.
  • Widespread ethnic cleansing by Islamic militias.
  • Rejection and defiance of host society secular laws or culture.
  • Murder of “moderate” Muslim intellectuals who don’t support Islamization.
  • Destruction of churches, synagogues and other non-Muslim institutions.
  • Women are restricted further in accordance with Sharia law.
  • Large-scale destruction of population, assassinations, bombings.
  • Toppling of government and usurpation of political power.
  • Imposition of Sharia law

The website [url="http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/"]www.thereligionofpeace.com[/url] keeps track of the number of violent jihad attacks as best it can. The site lists more than 14,000 attacks since September 2001. It is worth a visit. What is occurring, however, that is likely inestimable are events where muslims are bullied by other muslims for not being “muslim enough,” where non-Muslims are intimidated into doing or not doing what they desire, where remnant populations are in a death spiral simply for being non-muslim in a predominantly muslim area. Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists Animists and Atheists meet with death, property destruction or confiscation, forced conversion, rape, excessive taxation (the jizya), enslavement, riotous mobs and various other forms of islam (in-) justice at the hands of muslims in Sudan, Philippines, Kenya, Malaysia, India, etc. And let us not forget ‘death to Apostates’ the world over.


STAGE 4: Totalitarian ISLAMIC “THEOCRACY”


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Islam becomes the only religious-political-judicial-cultural ideology.
  • Sharia becomes the “law of the land.
  • All non-Islamic human rights cancelled.
  • Enslavement and genocide of non-Muslim population.
  • Freedom of speech and the press eradicated.
  • All religions other than Islam are forbidden and destroyed.
  • Destruction of all evidence of non-Muslim culture, populations and symbols in country (Buddhas, houses of worship, art, etc).

The House of Islam (“peace”), dar al-Islam, includes those nations that have submitted to Islamic rule, to the soul crushing, liberty-condemning, discriminatory law of Sharia. The rest of the world in in the House of War, dar al-harb, because it does not submit to Sharia, and exists in a state of rebellion or war with the will of ‘Allah.’ No non-Muslim state or its citizens are “innocent,” and remain viable targets of war for not believing in ‘Allah.’ The Christian, Jewish, Coptic, Hindu and Zoroastrian peoples of world have suffered under subjugation for centuries. The Dhimmi-esque are forbidden to construct houses of worship or repair existing ones, economically crippled by the heavy jizya (tax), socially humiliated, legally discriminated against, criminally targeted and generally kept in a permanent state of weakness, fear and vulnerability by Islamic governments.


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It should be noted that forced conversions (Egypt) and slavery (Sudan) are still reported. Homosexuals have been hung in the public square in Iran. Young girls are married to old men. Apostates are threatened with death. “Honor” killings are routine. Women are legally second-class citizens, though Muslim males insist they are “treated better” than in the West. These more obvious manifestations may distract from some less obvious ones such as the lack of intellectual inquiry in science, narrow scope of writing, all but non-existent art and music, sexual use and abuse of youth and women, and the disregard for personal fulfillment, joy and wonder. Look into the eyes of a recently married 12 year old girl to see the consequence of the moral deprivation spawned by Islam.


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Peace? Here's how Islam views peace.


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Thoughts? Agree? Disagree?

_________________
~ Eagle


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 Post subject: Re: Christian people - moral guide
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:36 pm 
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Perhaps a quote or two from Muslim leaders may add to the conversation.....

Those who studied the religion should not allow our religion to be misrepresented to fit into a scheme that wants to paint the religion of Islam as non-violent. Islam is not non-violent. - MINISTER LOUIS FARRAKHAN

PARK 51 - the mosque at Ground Zero
Raymond Ibrahim, a former associate director of the Middle East Forum, said the project and name were not "a gesture of peace and interfaith dialogue" but were "allusive of Islamic conquest and consolidation" and that Americans should realize that mosques are not "Muslim counterparts to Christian churches" but rather, "are symbols of domination and centers of radicalization."

"There is no real dialogue, since Muslims never reciprocate the goodwill gestures made by the Christians. The result is we sit down together, and the Christians say what a wonderful religion Islam is, and the Muslims say what a wonderful religion Islam is."Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf (Imam of Park 51)

"There is no moderate or immoderate Islam. Islam is Islam and that's it."- Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Prime Minister of Turkey (since March 14, 2003)

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~ Eagle


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 Post subject: Re: Christian people - moral guide
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:49 pm 

Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:07 am
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Seriously, Eagle? Wow is all I can say.


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 Post subject: Re: Christian people - moral guide
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:05 pm 
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Eagle wrote:
Perhaps a quote or two from Muslim leaders may add to the conversation.....


Just for kick I copied that into Word and did a few global searches and replaces, christian for muslim, crusade for jihad, you know, the usual. Funny thing is, it still makes just as much sense.

"Why can't we all just get along?" - the Reverend Sir Dr. Rodney King (I hope I got the titles correct)


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 Post subject: Re: Christian people - moral guide
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:09 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:35 am
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I have to add a +1 to ambition's post.

It's all too much, especially when you are talking about a religion/ideology (?) that is not your own.


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 Post subject: Re: Christian people - moral guide
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:37 pm 

Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:07 am
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Eagle wrote:

C. Funny I was just discussing this in another forum with others. I honestly believe that the fight of same-sex marriage is two separate issues. The first is the actual institution of marriage from a religious standpoint. The second is the term “marriage” as a legal, binding contract registered by the government for the purpose of certain rights.

For many homosexuals, at least at the heart of the matter, the piece of paper with the marriage license is really not the issue. The issue is how our laws prohibit them from enjoying what their money, and taxes pay for. If a homosexual wants to put their partner on their health insurance I say let them do it. They pay for it. If they want them to get their social security when they die let them do it. If one partner dies, they should have the right to specify that their partner gets their inheritance, their pension, their retirement, etc. I believe if one partner is critically injured, the other should have the right to be by their side, not shunned because they aren't “legally family".

I’m not saying that a homosexual relationship should be called a marriage from a Biblical perspective, but the money they pay to these systems is the same. Their contributions to society are the same if they work and pay taxes. While the lifestyle they live is something I don't agree with, I can’t in good conscience say that they should not receive benefits. Possibly we should just give it a different name with the same rights. That way conservatives and liberals will be happy? Marriage and “give it a name”?


No, this still misses the point. That is akin to separate but equal. From the government's standpoint, marriage between a man and a man, woman and a man, or woman and a woman should be called the same thing and have the same "benefits". Whether or not a specific church performs or recognizes the union is up to them. They can be bigots if they want.


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 Post subject: Re: Christian people - moral guide
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:14 pm 
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ambition wrote:
No, this still misses the point. That is akin to separate but equal. From the government's standpoint, marriage between a man and a man, woman and a man, or woman and a woman should be called the same thing and have the same "benefits". Whether or not a specific church performs or recognizes the union is up to them. They can be bigots if they want.


Someone will write a book one day tracing the parallels in the attempts at legal discrimination by race and by sexual orientation. The arguments are the same. First we had outright discrimination then pretended we were open-minded with "separate but equal" then...

I'm glad we have moved forward with regard to race (at least mostly) and look forward to the day we can do the same with sexual orientation to finally fulfill the ultimate conservative goal of truly having complete individual liberty and equality for all.


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 Post subject: Re: Christian people - moral guide
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:01 pm 

Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 2:23 pm
Posts: 810
Eagle is starting to fit the mold of a troll more and more...

PS, It's hard to argue that we don't want marriage to be regulated. I think we can all agree on that. The argument is to what degree. So, there goes the discrimination case.

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"If you only have 1 year to live, move to Penn...as it will seem like an eternity."


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 Post subject: Re: Christian people - moral guide
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:31 pm 
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ambition wrote:
Eagle wrote:

C. Funny I was just discussing this in another forum with others. I honestly believe that the fight of same-sex marriage is two separate issues. The first is the actual institution of marriage from a religious standpoint. The second is the term “marriage” as a legal, binding contract registered by the government for the purpose of certain rights.

For many homosexuals, at least at the heart of the matter, the piece of paper with the marriage license is really not the issue. The issue is how our laws prohibit them from enjoying what their money, and taxes pay for. If a homosexual wants to put their partner on their health insurance I say let them do it. They pay for it. If they want them to get their social security when they die let them do it. If one partner dies, they should have the right to specify that their partner gets their inheritance, their pension, their retirement, etc. I believe if one partner is critically injured, the other should have the right to be by their side, not shunned because they aren't “legally family".

I’m not saying that a homosexual relationship should be called a marriage from a Biblical perspective, but the money they pay to these systems is the same. Their contributions to society are the same if they work and pay taxes. While the lifestyle they live is something I don't agree with, I can’t in good conscience say that they should not receive benefits. Possibly we should just give it a different name with the same rights. That way conservatives and liberals will be happy? Marriage and “give it a name”?


No, this still misses the point. That is akin to separate but equal. From the government's standpoint, marriage between a man and a man, woman and a man, or woman and a woman should be called the same thing and have the same "benefits". Whether or not a specific church performs or recognizes the union is up to them. They can be bigots if they want.


I agreed to the same benefits. A compromise? I think most conservative religious people would too. Just call it a different name... I just don't see how those who are religious conservatives would support the idea of the same name - "marriage". But perhaps as time goes on the majority of voters will outnumber the religious conservatives to make the change of the same name with the same benefits. Oh well it was worth a shot. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Christian people - moral guide
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:36 pm 
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DoingHomework wrote:
Eagle wrote:
Perhaps a quote or two from Muslim leaders may add to the conversation.....


Just for kick I copied that into Word and did a few global searches and replaces, christian for muslim, crusade for jihad, you know, the usual. Funny thing is, it still makes just as much sense.

"Why can't we all just get along?" - the Reverend Sir Dr. Rodney King (I hope I got the titles correct)


So you substituted...

"There is a cultural Jihad being waged in the West...

4 Stages of Islamic Conquest:"

for...

"There is a cultural Crusade being waged in the East...

4 Stages of Christian Conquest:"

Lol... Are you serious? Maybe back in the Dark ages... ;) In the 21st century Islam presents the biggest threat to any and all peoples'.

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~ Eagle


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 Post subject: Re: Christian people - moral guide
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:04 pm 
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Eagle wrote:
I agreed to the same benefits. A compromise? I think most conservative religious people would too. Just call it a different name... I just don't see how those who are religious conservatives would support the idea of the same name - "marriage". But perhaps as time goes on the majority of voters will outnumber the religious conservatives to make the change of the same name with the same benefits. Oh well it was worth a shot. ;)


eagle, at this point i dont even know if you are being serious or if you are intentionally being stupid to stir argument. If you think your ideas are acceptable then i encourage you to go read Some of the judicial history on this. Start with plessy v ferguson. Go to bed, think about your validation. Then read brown v board of education with your fruit loops. You should realize how outdated and 19th century your ideas are.

And after all that i hope you figure out that what you propose is unamerican, unconstituional. The courts work glacially but in a few years doma will be gone and same sex marriage will be equal to yours. Your city, town, county, schools and so forth will welcome dad and dad to family picnics and everything else. It does not matter what the voters think.


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 Post subject: Re: Christian people - moral guide
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:42 am 
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People love to bring up Hitler...

The rise of Nazism in Germany did not target Muslims. Adolf Hitler repeatedly expressed the view that Islam would have been much more compatible to the "Germanic races" than "meek" and "feeble" Christianity:

“Had Charles Martel not been victorious at Poitiers [...] then we should in all probability have been converted to Mohammedanism, that cult which glorifies the heroism and which opens up the seventh Heaven to the bold warrior alone. Then the Germanic races would have conquered the world.”*

*"Hitler's Table Talk 1941-1944", p. 667 translated by N. Cameron. Hitler's confidant Albert Speer reports of a similar statement made by Hitler: "The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?", see Albert Speer: Inside the Third Reich: memoirs. Simon and Schuster. pp. 96 et seq. ISBN 978-0-684-82949-4.



http://www.30-days.net/muslims/statistics/islam-growth/

Statistics from the U.N.:

Islam in North America since 1989 increased 25%

Islam in Africa since 1989 increased 2.15%

Islam in Asia since 1989 increased 12.57%

Islam in Europe since 1989 increased 142.35%

Islam in Latin America since 1989 decreased -4.73%

and Islam in Australia and Oceania / Pacific since 1989 increased 257.01%

Major Religions of the World
Christian – 2,038,905,000 – 32% (dropping)
Roman Catholics – 1,076,951,000
Protestants – 349,792,000
Orthodox – 217,522,000
Anglicans – 81,663,000
Other – 537,135,000
Muslims – 1,226,403,000 – 21% (growing)
Hindus – 828,130,000 – 13% (stable)
Chinese folk religionists – 389,543,000 – 6%
Buddhists – 364,014,000 – 6% (stable)
Sikhs – 23,821,000 – < 1%
Jews – 14,535,000 – < 1%

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~ Eagle


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 Post subject: Re: Christian people - moral guide
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:47 am 
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DoingHomework wrote:
Eagle wrote:
I agreed to the same benefits. A compromise? I think most conservative religious people would too. Just call it a different name... I just don't see how those who are religious conservatives would support the idea of the same name - "marriage". But perhaps as time goes on the majority of voters will outnumber the religious conservatives to make the change of the same name with the same benefits. Oh well it was worth a shot. ;)


eagle, at this point i dont even know if you are being serious or if you are intentionally being stupid to stir argument. If you think your ideas are acceptable then i encourage you to go read Some of the judicial history on this. Start with plessy v ferguson. Go to bed, think about your validation. Then read brown v board of education with your fruit loops. You should realize how outdated and 19th century your ideas are.

And after all that i hope you figure out that what you propose is unamerican, unconstituional. The courts work glacially but in a few years doma will be gone and same sex marriage will be equal to yours. Your city, town, county, schools and so forth will welcome dad and dad to family picnics and everything else. It does not matter what the voters think.


...Or the courts will take care of it. I'll take a look at Plessy Vs. Ferguson as you suggested. I suppose what you're saying is there is no compromise because such a proposal is unAmerican and unconstitutional. Interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: Christian people - moral guide
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:21 am 
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Eagle wrote:
...Or the courts will take care of it. I'll take a look at Plessy Vs. Ferguson as you suggested. I suppose what you're saying is there is no compromise because such a proposal is unAmerican and unconstitutional. Interesting.


No, I'm saying that racism enjoyed widespread support and legal protection in this country under the doctrine of "separate but equal" established by the Plessy decision. That is one of the most important decisions in US history and it is unfortunate that you never learned about it.

Plessy was law for about 50 years until it was overturned in the 1950s by the Brown decision, another extremely important landmark case you should know. "Separate but equal" is what you propose for same-sex marriage. It is unconstitutional.

We have courts to prevent whackos from trampling on rights even when those whackos are in Congress.


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 Post subject: Re: Christian people - moral guide
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:45 am 

Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 2:23 pm
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DH, since it's a slow day, so I'll throw this out there.

In your discrimination case against the anti-gay marriage thing (whoever it is that gets sued, the states I suppose), do you also include the 60 year old man who wants to marry your 13 year old granddaughter? Or the first cousins who are deeply in love (no Mississippi jokes please )? What about freshman high school sweethearts who are 14? Or perhaps, what about polygamists? After all, it is just love.

The point is, we do regulate marriage in this country. And it has been accepted for a LONG time (Utah has vast history on the polygamy front). Perhaps, you may truly feel all forms of marriage are ok in your book. And maybe you say so for the sake argument here, but your feelings are against it. Regardless, these are the types of arguments that would need to be made if one was to challenge a state law before the head honchos. And why it is still left to the states to decide.

Anyway, just food for thought...For the record, I don't oppose gay marriage if they want to be "legally" married. Although, for all intents and purposes, they are in terms of benefits and what not. It's just a title...

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"If you only have 1 year to live, move to Penn...as it will seem like an eternity."


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