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 Post subject: Women Need Retirement Planning More Than Men Do
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:32 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:51 am
Posts: 1
Location: Scranton
Make retirement plans a priority when you consider a job
Consider sacrificing some current salary in return for a good retirement plan, and seek out employers who will match part or all of your savings in a contributory plan.
Work as long as you can at the highest salary you can
The longer you work, the more you can sock away for retirement. And the older you are when you retire, the fewer years of retirement you will have to fund.
Higher Social Security benefits are an extra bonus for those years of hard work. If you pay into Social Security for at least ten years (or if you qualify for Social Security under your husband’s work record), you won’t have to pay monthly premiums for Medicare hospital insurance when you retire.
Understand the effect on Social Security benefits of divorce and remarriage
If you divorce, you are entitled to Social Security payments equal to 50% of your ex-husband’s benefits, if you were married for at least ten years. You’ll lose that right if you remarry, though you’ll be entitled to collect payments based on your new husband’s benefits. A widow is entitled to her late husband’s benefits as long as she doesn’t remarry before age 60.
Put money away for retirement on a regular basis
Just $10 to $20 a week can add up, especially if you start young. For example, $20 a week invested in growth mutual funds from age 40 to age 65 will build to a nest egg of $92,000. Start at age 25, and it will grow to nearly $370,000.
Learn about your finances
Don’t just sign tax returns, be sure you understand them. Get assistance from your tax preparer if you need explanations.
Identify your financial assets and debts, and begin to save for your future by paying down debt and budgeting.
If you are married, be sure that you and your husband each understand what you own and what you owe, and use insurance to plan for the possibility of death or disability.
______________________________________________________________
A retired husband is often a wife's full-time job.
--Ella Harris


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 Post subject: Re: Women Need Retirement Planning More Than Men Do
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:57 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:33 pm
Posts: 1148
Location: Illinois
Your post doesn't explain the claim in your title, so....

Why do women need retirement planning more than men do?


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 Post subject: Re: Women Need Retirement Planning More Than Men Do
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:20 pm 

Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:06 am
Posts: 98
Women need retirement planning more than men for two reasons:
1) They live longer, so their money has to last longer
2) They still underearn vs men in the same jobs, so planning is DOUBLY important.

Now, I'd make a small correction to the OP's post:
>>If you pay into Social Security for at least ten years (or if you qualify for Social Security under your husband’s work record), you won’t have to pay monthly premiums for Medicare hospital insurance when you retire.>>

That should be, "you won't have to pay monthly premiums for Medicare Part A (hospital insurance) when you retire." Many don't understand the difference between Medicare's Part A, B and D programs. EVERYONE has to pay Medicare Part B, whose monthly premiums are set by Congress and deducted from your Social Security check, unless you are covered by a healthcare plan as outlined below.

If you are still working and covered by your employer's health plan, you should still file for Medicare at age 65 because some insurers switch to becoming the secondary payor. Even if they don't do this, filing at age 65 and checking the box "covered by employer's healthcare" avoids any issues with being charged the 10% per year premium penalty for not signing up with Medicare at age 65.


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 Post subject: Re: Women Need Retirement Planning More Than Men Do
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:56 pm 

Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 3:36 pm
Posts: 120
jaiko wrote:
Women need retirement planning more than men for two reasons:
1) They live longer, so their money has to last longer
2) They still underearn vs men in the same jobs, so planning is DOUBLY important.


I don't want to turn this form into an argument if women are under paid vs men in the same jobs. But this gap has shrunk in most fields and is actually flipped now in some (specifically medical fields and day cares among others.) Also the difference is usually do to women dropping out of the work force to raise kids, which sets them back X months/years in advancement.

Regardless, I wouldn't argue women need retirement planning more then men. I feel like both need planning. Because saying Women need retirement planning more then men do implies men may not need planning.

No one will argue that it's not important for women to save, but I think saying one needs it more then the other is a stretch. Even if you take into account that women (may) live longer, this is the same "planning" that both do, you just may figure in the five extra years of life. Now this could very well mean you need to save more, but that doesn't mean you take longer to do the planning, just means you save $110 dollars instead of a $100 a week (numbers are made up.)


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 Post subject: Re: Women Need Retirement Planning More Than Men Do
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:24 pm 

Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:06 am
Posts: 98
From The National Committee on Pay Equity (NCPE):

"The wage gap remained statistically unchanged in the last year (2011). Women's earnings were 77.0 percent of men's in 2011, compared to 77.4 percent in 2010, according to Census statistics released September 12, 2012 based on the median earnings of all full-time, year-round workers. Men's earning in 2011 were $48,202 and women's were $37,118, a difference of $11,084.

In 2011, the earnings of African American women were $33,501, 69.5 percent of all men's earnings, a slight increase from 67.7 percent in 2010, and Latinas' earnings were $29,020, 60.2 percent of all men's earnings, up from 58.7 percent in 2010. Asian American women's earnings at $40,882 dropped from 86.6 percent of all men's earnings in 2010 to 84.8 percent in 2011. The National Committee on Pay Equity's The Wage Gap Over Time shows how little the wage gap has changed in this century.

According to the National Women's Law Center:

•The wage gap persists at all levels of education. In 2011, the typical woman in the United States with a high school diploma working full time, year round was paid only 74 cents for every dollar paid to her male counterpart. Among people with a bachelor’s degrees, the figure was also 74 cents. In fact, the typical woman who has received an associate’s degree still isn’t paid as much as the typical man who only graduated from high school.
•A typical woman who worked full time, year round would lose $443,360 in a 40-year period due to the wage gap. A woman would have to work almost twelve years longer to make up this gap. A typical woman working full time, year round who starts, but does not finish, high school would lose $372,400 over a 40-year period, an enormous amount of money for women who are typically paid $21,113 a year. A woman would have to work over seventeen years longer to make up this gap. "


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 Post subject: Re: Women Need Retirement Planning More Than Men Do
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:37 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:34 pm
Posts: 529
Jaiko,
That still does not support the premise that women need retirement planning more than men. At best, that supports the premise that women need to save a higher percentage of income for their retirement than men to make up the salary gap difference. And, yes, I did experience salary gap due to gender discrimination early in my career, (and, no, I have not taken time off to raise children) so I do not dispute the claim that the gap still exists. Honestly, I think the post was just clumsily titled.


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 Post subject: Re: Women Need Retirement Planning More Than Men Do
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:44 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:29 pm
Posts: 167
Maybe we should start a thread on salary gap. I'd be interested to hear peoples experiences.


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 Post subject: Re: Women Need Retirement Planning More Than Men Do
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:41 am 

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:19 pm
Posts: 1776
Location: Ottawa, Canada
It's 2012. I don't believe there's a salary gap.

As was pointed out, any perceived "gap" in salary is due to variances in time commitments to work. If a woman takes a year off for maternity leave, and a male co-worker does not, then why should the woman return a year later and receive the same pay increase that her male co-worker may have received?

If the situation were reversed, and it was the man that took the year off, and a female co-worker stayed in the office for that same year, the same pay variance would manifest in reverse. It just so happens that for whatever reason, women seem biologically more inclined to take the time off than men. Whose fault is that? Is that a problem that needs fixing, or is it just the way it is?

Adam Carolla made an interesting (if controversial) argument regarding this mythical "salary gap." He pointed out that businesses are in business to maximize profit, so if they could get someone to do just as good a job, but for less money, then they'll hire that person. That's why all the manufacturing jobs have moved overseas. They do just as good a job, for less money.

Thus, it follows that if women were able and willing do the exact same job as men, but for less money, then businesses would only hire women. Why would they ever hire a man, if he didn't produce any better results, but cost more?

I don't necessarily agree with his logic - I just thought it was a funny take on the topic. A ghastly blend of capitalism and sexism.


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 Post subject: Re: Women Need Retirement Planning More Than Men Do
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:38 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:05 pm
Posts: 1356
Wikipedia actually has a pretty informative and relatively objective discussion of the gender pay gap. It definitely exists, 2012 or not, but there is debate about its causes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap


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 Post subject: Re: Women Need Retirement Planning More Than Men Do
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:45 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:33 pm
Posts: 1148
Location: Illinois
I'm still waiting for the op to be edited to include spam. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Women Need Retirement Planning More Than Men Do
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:38 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:34 pm
Posts: 529
kombat wrote:
It's 2012. I don't believe there's a salary gap.


Is that what it's like in Canada? If so, between that and the universal health care, I may need to move there. :D

Seriously, gender discrimination and the pay gap is still very much alive and well in the US. Others have provided you links to research; I can provide a personal anecdote.

A gentleman and I were hired roughly the same time (a couple of weeks apart) for the same entry-level job. I had a degree in the field, he did not. I attempted to negotiate my starting salary (another mistake women tend to not do - negotiate) and was told they did not negotiate salary. I received excellent performance reviews but piddly raises (again, they did not negotiate raises). A couple years in, I found a paper left on the printer that showed salaries, and the gentleman's was just over 30% higher. I took it to my boss, showed him what I found and asked for an explanation. I was told that because my husband was in the military, I was just working for "spending money." The other guy, on the other hand, had a family to support, and that's why he was being paid more.

This didn't happen in 2012 - I will give you that - but it did happen way, way back in the ancient year of 2002. I left very shortly after for a better paying job elsewhere.

I have other stories if you ever want to hear them...butt pinching a la Mad Men, promotions denied for sex denied, all kinds of juicy stories. Several months ago I had a head-on collision with the glass ceiling applying for the next level up in my career field (which is occupied solely by men).

Oh, and disclaimer, I do not have children (nor do I have elderly parents). I have taken no detours or time off in my career to be a caretaker. What I do have is a graduate degree in my field, and I'm currently working on a second in the hopes it will serve as the sledgehammer to break that glass the next opportunity I have to apply for promotion.


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 Post subject: Re: Women Need Retirement Planning More Than Men Do
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:13 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:01 am
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alohabear wrote:
I was told that because my husband was in the military, I was just working for "spending money." The other guy, on the other hand, had a family to support, and that's why he was being paid more.


I once had my boss overrule me on raises for two guys that worked for me. One guy was single, a bit of a vagabond, but a good worker. The other had a family including a new baby. He was also a good worker but took a lot of time off and already made about 25% more than the other guy. They did pretty much the same job. I wanted to give the first guy a big raise and the other guy just a token raise. My reason had more to do with equalization and rewarding the single guy for working longer hours. My boss overruled me and gave them both the same $ increase. He actually said to me "(Family guy) needs more money because he has a family to support." I was astonished. And my boss was not usually sexist, traditional, or anything else like that. This was in about 2000.

So basically, I know that what you experienced happens and is unfortunately not that unusual.

Quote:
I have other stories if you ever want to hear them...butt pinching a la Mad Men, promotions denied for sex denied, all kinds of juicy stories.


Really? I have now and have had in the past quite a few female professional friends through the years and have asked about that sort of thing. None of my friends have ever reported a first hand experience with anything like that although everyone has heard those things third or fourth hand. I'm not just talking about being mere coworkers either.

In my personal experience, if anything, the guys get more polite when women are around and their language improves. But aside from that I have never seen women treated as anything but equal.

I would actually be curious to hear what you have experienced along those lines. What field are you in?


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 Post subject: Re: Women Need Retirement Planning More Than Men Do
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:53 am 

Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:06 am
Posts: 98
I agree with doinghomework. One of our closest friends works in Supply Chain Mgmt and discovered she was being consistently underpaid, first at Clorox and then at Safeway (grocery). Safeway finally told her she was so valuable they wouldn't EVER promote her because they needed her 'in the field' keeping the vendors happy! And they refused to let her even take a lateral transfer where she could have more opportunity.

We finally convinced her she had the skills and personality to be a successful consultant. She went to work at a small consulting firm and is so much happier to be away from sexist office politics, and to finally be paid on an equal basis with male consultants, because it's based on skillset and experience.


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 Post subject: Re: Women Need Retirement Planning More Than Men Do
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:09 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:29 pm
Posts: 167
I'll add my experience. I know of 4 couples (myself included) that started at my company around the same time (early 2000s). I work at a large aerospace company with many engineers and scientist. Not sure if that makes a difference or not. The husband and wife for each couple started around the same time (within a month or two) with the exact same degrees.

Couple one (me and my ex). Starting salaries were within 2% of each other and have been for the entire time we have been at the company (10 years). We have the exact same undergrad and grad degrees, went to the same school, etc. So it has been totally fair.

Couple two; the wife is one grade higher than the husband. And she has taken time off for 2 kids. Both work hard and get good reviews.

Couple three; husband and wife are the same grade. Salaries are similar but I don't know exactly how close.

Couple four; husband is one grade higher than the wife. Both get good reviews.

So if I average the four couples its near the exact same for men and women as far as pay and promotions at my company. I'm sure wage gap exists in the US but I have not seen it here. Is there data for different occupations and the like?


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 Post subject: Re: Women Need Retirement Planning More Than Men Do
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:39 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:34 pm
Posts: 529
DoingHomework wrote:
Really? I have now and have had in the past quite a few female professional friends through the years and have asked about that sort of thing. None of my friends have ever reported a first hand experience with anything like that although everyone has heard those things third or fourth hand. I'm not just talking about being mere coworkers either.

In my personal experience, if anything, the guys get more polite when women are around and their language improves. But aside from that I have never seen women treated as anything but equal.

I would actually be curious to hear what you have experienced along those lines. What field are you in?


DH,
I'm a civil servant and I work for the Army. In fact, if you read my response to the infrastructure thread you can probably infer which organization. The butt-pinching, etc, happened when I was in Afghanistan. Twice I had to fight them demoting me (despite high praise and excellent performance reviews) in order to promote a woman in an inappropriate relationship with the commander (not inferring this, I overheard some of their "pillow talk", and a fellow co-worker whom I trust saw their raunchy texts). This is the same guy who, at one of the weekly hail/farewells, said to a new woman in front of 200+ people, "Aren't you a pretty one. Why don't you come up here and hold my microphone."

Another time, my organization was told by HQ they hired me incorrectly (they said they should have hired a guy off of the priority placement list instead), and when trying to figure out where to put me, their first answer was to move me (with my graduate degree) from my highly technical and specialized field into a secretary position. It took an EEO mediation session between my boss and I to get him to understand how inappropriate that was.

Those are extreme cases, and thankfully, they happen rarely. Honestly, the most common instances of unprofessionalism tend to happen (at least in my experience) on a regular basis with older men who have daughters my age. A parent/child relationship is not one of equal power, and those who relate to me as they would their daughter tend to be patronizing, dismissive and paternalistic in their interactions with me and other women my age. That they don't realize they're doing it makes it even more challenging, though I've done my best to be patient and kindly (and often subtly) redirect them to more appropriate behaviors. Things like introducing me as "young lady" to colleagues and customers, expecting me to make their coffee (or, at least, being surprised when it doesn't make itself), reminding me to pack my hard hat and safety boots when I go to the field (as if I simply don't know what is appropriate field wear), dropping their filing on my desk (again, not a secretary). I know it sounds petty on the surface, and each incident in and of itself is so tiny, but they add up to a pattern of behavior and interactions that get old quickly. (And, in case you're wondering, no I don't get angry when a man holds the door for me, as long as he doesn't mind when I return the favor.) ;)


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