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 Post subject: Re: gun control
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:28 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:48 am
Posts: 526
Location: Arkansas
Still want to trust the powers that be?

This was posted today on a website that I read

"I found out this week how the law enforcement community here in S.W. Ohio are getting their ammo when all the stores are sold out. They are showing up to public gun ranges and declairing your firearm to be illegal or having an illegal part. Then they confiscate the firearm and all the ammo. The next day the officers discover that they were mistaken and you can pick up your firearm at the station. When you ask for your ammo back they say “state law prohibits them from giving live ammo back to civilians”. My sons teacher lost a days work “getting his rifle back” and over 200 rounds of 223 were confiscated. He stated there were many local police and sheriff officers “stealing” hundreds of rounds from multiple people."

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 Post subject: Re: gun control
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:41 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:48 am
Posts: 526
Location: Arkansas
DoingHomework wrote:
True. And I know we are not talking about hunting here. But if we go down the list of why people should be allowed to have guns at all the list is pretty short - self defense, hunting, recreational shooting - and none of those require high capacity magazines.


Show me in the constitution where it says that standard capacity mags aren't protected. It says the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. These magazines are what these weapons came with originally. They are not high capacity mags. They are standard capacity mags. Just like my 9 came with a 15 rd mag and the never versions have a 17 rd mag. These are standard capacity mags. By trying to regulate the mags you are infringing on our right to keep and bear arms. Nowhere does it say you can only have a single shot (even though that's all they had when the constitution was written). They knew that guns would improve and that we shouldn't have our freedoms infringed on.

What the politicans want (and some people) is low capacity mags. Well if you ever have a group of folks trying to mug you on the street you'll be appreciative of the "standard capacity" mag.

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 Post subject: Re: gun control
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:44 pm 
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N2Deep wrote:
Still want to trust the powers that be?

This was posted today on a website that I read

"I found out this week how the law enforcement community here in S.W. Ohio are getting their ammo when all the stores are sold out. They are showing up to public gun ranges and declairing your firearm to be illegal or having an illegal part. Then they confiscate the firearm and all the ammo. The next day the officers discover that they were mistaken and you can pick up your firearm at the station. When you ask for your ammo back they say “state law prohibits them from giving live ammo back to civilians”. My sons teacher lost a days work “getting his rifle back” and over 200 rounds of 223 were confiscated. He stated there were many local police and sheriff officers “stealing” hundreds of rounds from multiple people."


Wow, if true, these good officers are guilty of theft by control - a career-ending felony. State law may disallow return of ammo but the US Constitution requires compensation for it unless it is illegal. All it would take is for a single officer to break ranks and they could all go to prison, lose their pensions, and who knows what else. What's more believable, that the story is wrong or that there is a vast conspiracy of police officers to violate the law at personal risk just to procure ammunition that their employer is responsible for providing.

N2, as a LEO yourself, would you risk prison for your employer?

I'd be more inclined to think there is an ounce of truth to this when it is reported by a reputable news source. Heck, I'd even accept Fox News for that.


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 Post subject: Re: gun control
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:00 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:48 am
Posts: 526
Location: Arkansas
DoingHomework wrote:
N2Deep wrote:
Still want to trust the powers that be?

This was posted today on a website that I read

"I found out this week how the law enforcement community here in S.W. Ohio are getting their ammo when all the stores are sold out. They are showing up to public gun ranges and declairing your firearm to be illegal or having an illegal part. Then they confiscate the firearm and all the ammo. The next day the officers discover that they were mistaken and you can pick up your firearm at the station. When you ask for your ammo back they say “state law prohibits them from giving live ammo back to civilians”. My sons teacher lost a days work “getting his rifle back” and over 200 rounds of 223 were confiscated. He stated there were many local police and sheriff officers “stealing” hundreds of rounds from multiple people."


Wow, if true, these good officers are guilty of theft by control - a career-ending felony. State law may disallow return of ammo but the US Constitution requires compensation for it unless it is illegal. All it would take is for a single officer to break ranks and they could all go to prison, lose their pensions, and who knows what else. What's more believable, that the story is wrong or that there is a vast conspiracy of police officers to violate the law at personal risk just to procure ammunition that their employer is responsible for providing.

N2, as a LEO yourself, would you risk prison for your employer?

I'd be more inclined to think there is an ounce of truth to this when it is reported by a reputable news source. Heck, I'd even accept Fox News for that.


No I would not risk prision for my employer. I can however see cops going bad... happens all the time. They think they are above the law.

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 Post subject: Re: gun control
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:49 pm 
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http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/14/politics/gun-laws-battle/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

That's the pendulum swinging. Read the part near the bottom. Polls show a huge jump in just the past year in support for stricter gun control laws.

I hesitate to think that this divided Congress will do much of anything. But if you are a member of the house you've got to be worried about voting again a restriction and then having another Newtown or Aurora just before the 2014 elections. You'd have to balance that against losing NRA campaign contributions of course.


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 Post subject: Re: gun control
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:26 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:39 am
Posts: 57
From Politico:
Quote:
Nearly 40 percent of Americans are dissatisfied with current gun control laws and back stricter measures — a double-digit increase over last year, a new poll Monday found.

According to the Gallup survey, 38 percent of those questioned believe that gun laws should be strengthened and are dissatisfied with current law, a 13-point jump from a year ago and the highest it has been in over a decade. Eighteen percent of Republicans, 64 percent of Democrats and 31 percent of independents surveyed expressed that opinion.

Forty-three percent of Americans are satisfied with today’s gun laws, and 5 percent are dissatisfied but want looser gun measures. Last year, 50 percent of those surveyed were satisfied with current gun laws and 8 percent wanted less stringent laws.


Read the actual numbers. Even at this decade high, more people are still satisfied with current gun laws than want more strict laws.

That aside... Nothing spins me up more than the "if this saves one child, it will be worth it" that Joe Biden and others are peddling. I can think of a hundred other ways to save one child, that are less controversial and mainly involve American parents being less stupid or more attentive to their own offspring.

Oh, and the pendulum continues to swing away from Gun Free School Zones:
http://www.toledoblade.com/Education/2013/01/11/Montpelier-schools-OKs-armed-janitors.html


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 Post subject: Re: gun control
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:02 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:48 am
Posts: 526
Location: Arkansas
DoingHomework wrote:
That's the pendulum swinging. Read the part near the bottom. Polls show a huge jump in just the past year in support for stricter gun control laws.


All depends on where you get your numbers...

Quote:
In the four years since Barack Obama was first elected president in November 2008, an estimated 67 million firearms have been purchased in the United States. That’s more than were sold in almost seven years before his first election.

Nationwide, more than 2.7 million of those checks were recorded for December, according to statistics kept by the FBI. Since late 1998 when federal law began mandating such checks for prospective gun buyers, the only other month that exceeded the 2 million mark was November 2012 — when Obama won a second term.

Based on those numbers, 2012 was a record-setting year for gun sales in the country with more than 19 million background checks conducted.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/01/11/179551/us-gun-sales-hit-a-record-high.html


I promise you those 19 MILLION people that tried to get a gun in 2012 didn't do it just to give them up. Since the background checks became law in Nov of '98 there have only been 987,578 denials. With 2.7 million folks looking to get a gun in December alone... I'd say folks are gearing up.

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 Post subject: Re: gun control
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:39 pm 
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N2Deep wrote:
With 2.7 million folks looking to get a gun in December alone... I'd say folks are gearing up.


I seriously hope not.


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 Post subject: Re: gun control
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:54 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:48 am
Posts: 526
Location: Arkansas
DoingHomework wrote:
N2Deep wrote:
With 2.7 million folks looking to get a gun in December alone... I'd say folks are gearing up.


I seriously hope not.


That's the only concensus I can come to. 2.7 million folks got guns in just one month. You cant find parts or common accessories because they are backordered. I'm talking about things like springs and other items that make the weapons function. Don't even try to get any magazines for your weapon. Doesn't matter if its for an AR or a 9mm. They are hard to come by. The ammo situation is just insane. The other day I couldn't even order .22LR from either Cabelas or Midway... they were both out. Same goes for all the other popular calibers.

So you have massive amounts of gun sales, parts to keep the guns opperational, and a shortage of ammo available for most calibers. I'd say folks are gearing up.

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 Post subject: Re: gun control
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:00 pm 
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N2Deep wrote:
DoingHomework wrote:
N2Deep wrote:
With 2.7 million folks looking to get a gun in December alone... I'd say folks are gearing up.


I seriously hope not.


That's the only concensus I can come to. 2.7 million folks got guns in just one month. You cant find parts or common accessories because they are backordered. I'm talking about things like springs and other items that make the weapons function. Don't even try to get any magazines for your weapon. Doesn't matter if its for an AR or a 9mm. They are hard to come by. The ammo situation is just insane. The other day I couldn't even order .22LR from either Cabelas or Midway... they were both out. Same goes for all the other popular calibers.

So you have massive amounts of gun sales, parts to keep the guns opperational, and a shortage of ammo available for most calibers. I'd say folks are gearing up.


Maybe Obama issued an executive order to ban springs. Or maybe there is a government conspiracy to cause an ammo shortage. They might need the material to make the stuff for mind control chemtrails.


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 Post subject: Re: gun control
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:17 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:48 am
Posts: 526
Location: Arkansas
DoingHomework wrote:
Maybe Obama issued an executive order to ban springs. Or maybe there is a government conspiracy to cause an ammo shortage. They might need the material to make the stuff for mind control chemtrails.


:rofl:

I wouldn't put it past obummer.

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 Post subject: Re: gun control
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:21 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:39 am
Posts: 57
Quick thought: with all the talk about restricting ammunition sales by various politicians, do you think they're aware of privately-owned reloaders?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handloading#Situation_in_the_USA


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 Post subject: Re: gun control
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:36 am 

Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:07 am
Posts: 201
this conversation is getting to be a bit on the whacko side.


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 Post subject: Re: gun control
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:10 am 
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iDude wrote:
Quick thought: with all the talk about restricting ammunition sales by various politicians, do you think they're aware of privately-owned reloaders?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handloading#Situation_in_the_USA


I don't think most politicians are aware of much at all based on the idiotic things they say to get morons to vote for them. But I don't think private reloaders are the problem. I know a lot of people just want to ban all guns. But I think the most recent resurgence in gun control talk is focused on preventing things like the Newtown shootings or what happened in the theater in Colorado. Reloading has nothing to do with those.

But really, if they did want to ban reloading that would be trivial. Just ban the sale of reloaded cartridges and the shipment of primers across state lines.


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 Post subject: Re: gun control
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:29 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:39 am
Posts: 57
DoingHomework wrote:
iDude wrote:
Quick thought: with all the talk about restricting ammunition sales by various politicians, do you think they're aware of privately-owned reloaders?


I don't think most politicians are aware of much at all based on the idiotic things they say to get morons to vote for them. But I don't think private reloaders are the problem. I know a lot of people just want to ban all guns. But I think the most recent resurgence in gun control talk is focused on preventing things like the Newtown shootings or what happened in the theater in Colorado. Reloading has nothing to do with those.

But really, if they did want to ban reloading that would be trivial. Just ban the sale of reloaded cartridges and the shipment of primers across state lines.


Fair enough. Though I'm not at all sure how generally tighter control of ammunition would prevent mass-murders either; pistol ammunition is generally sold in boxes of 50, and rifle cartridges by the 20.

Oh, and speaking of home remedies:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/01/14/gunsmiths-3d-print-high-capacity-ammo-clips-to-thwart-proposed-gun-laws/


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