Capitalist Kids: Encouraging Young Entrepreneurs
Saturday, I posted what I thought was an amusing anecdote. I told how I’d bought some treats from a young girl’s bake sale, but she’d been woefully unprepared to take my money and give me change. I meant the story to be comic relief, but quite a few GRS readers found it unamusing — and, in fact, thought I came off as something of a jerk. Oops.
In retrospect, many people raised valid concerns (though some folks were making mountains out of molehills). I was something of a jerk. To make amends, today I want to provide a frame of reference so you can see where I’m coming from (not that this excuses my behavior), and I want to provide some tips for parents with entrepreneurial kids.
I was a grade-school entrepreneur
As I’ve mentioned many times, I always do what I can to support young entrepreneurs — that’s why I bought the goodies from the girls last week in the first place. I believe strongly that kids should be encouraged to make and sell things, and even start their own kid-sized businesses. I probably feel this way because I was a grade-school entrepreneur.
To start at the beginning, my father was a serial entrepreneur; he was always starting businesses. Most failed. Some succeeded in a wild fashion. (The inheritance he left the family was in the form of his most successful business, the custom box company that for 15 years now has supported his wife, three sons, and a nephew.)
No surprise then that as a child, I wanted to make money too.
I made my first business venture when I was in the second grade. I sold lemonade by the side of the road. It was miserable failure. I was trying to sell lemonade in March, on an infrequently-traveled stretch of country road, in rural Oregon. I didn’t sell any lemonade.
But in fourth grade, I started a little business that actually made money. Star Wars was huge in 1978, and like all the other boys, I collected Star Wars cards. Whatever change I could scrounge went to these cards. (We used to walk the sides of the roads collecting pop bottles. We’d cash in the deposits and immediately buy more Star Wars cards.) Collecting was frustrating. Sometimes I would have six of one card, and none of another. This bugged me until I realized that I could turn the surplus to my advantage.
I took all of my doubles (and triples and quadruples, etc.) and sorted them into random piles of about twenty cards each. I wrapped each stack in a piece of typing paper and wrote 10¢ on the package in black felt pen. I made as many packages as I could, took them to school, and sold them to the other boys. I took that money to the local variety store and converted it into new cards. It was brilliant!
I did the same thing with Hardy Boys books. I loved the Hardy Boys — my aunts and uncles knew this, so I often got books as gifts. After I finished them, I’d take them to school and sell them for fifty cents. (They cost two dollars new.)
I was learning practical business lessons, and I was only ten years old.
Throughout my childhood, my father encouraged my entrepreneurial and sales activities. He urged me to go from door to door selling greeting cards and seeds, for example. (These ventures failed for the same reason the lemonade stand failed — not a big enough customer base.) When I was a bit older, a friend and I drew and photocopied our own comic books through the junior-high store. We didn’t sell many of these, but we had fun trying.
In high school, I was active in our Future Business Leaders of America chapter. I learned about economics, accounting, and business math. But I also sold a lot of candy for fund-raisers. (We were always having to raise money for conventions, and so on.)
Kid-sized entrepreneurship and salesmanship were a big part of my childhood. I didn’t like it much at the time, but looking back I can see that it played a crucial role in making me the man I am today. Because of this, I do what I can to support kids who sell stuff.
- When I see a lemonade stand, I stop to buy lemonade.
- When I see a girl scout, I buy girl scout cookies.
- When my young friends sell magazines and books to raise money for school, I buy magazines and books.
- Every year, Kris and I look forward to visiting the girls at the Eastmoreland Garage Sale, who have sold newsletters, “stock tips”, jokes, and more.
And, of course, last weekend I bought some treats from two girls with a bake sale. When I did this, I had only warm, positive feelings for these kids, even during their confusion regarding the change. I shared their story at GRS not to be malicious, but because I thought the situation was funny, and because I could identify with the girls.
Note: I have a cut-off line for the kids I support. I used to support college students, but I got burned a couple of times by co-eds selling shady stuff, so I no longer support college kids. This might seem unfair, but it makes things easier to only support those in high school or below.
What color is your piggy bank?
Kris and I don’t have kids, but if we did, you can bet I’d encourage their entrepreneurial ventures, just as my father encouraged mine. But there’s more to helping your kid explore the world of business than just letting her loose with cookies and lemonade. Here are some ideas for helping your youngster make her first foray into the world of business.
Encourage your kid to pursue their passions
Sure, your daughter could sell magazines door to door. But what if she’s interested in something else? Like horses or soccer? Help your kids find a way to make money through their hobbies. Urge them to be creative. How can a 12-year-old girl make money through her interest in horses? I don’t know — but I’ll bet she can come up with a couple of ideas.
Supervise the set-up
Though you’ll ultimately allow your child to run the business on his own, it’s a good idea to make sure he sets smart parameters. Be certain that his choices are safe and legal, and double-check that he has everything he needs. If needed, spot your kid some start-up capital, but make it very clear that this is a loan, and that you’ll need this money back when the business venture is over.
Answer questions
Again, let your child operate independently. But when she has questions, be there to help her. If you don’t know the answers, help her do the appropriate research. Who knows? You might learn something along the way.
Let your child sink or swim on his own
I know some parents are afraid to let their kids fail. That’s sweet, but learning to deal with failure is an important part of learning to deal with life. It’s also a vital business skill. Most successful businessmen and women have been unsuccessful in the past — often for long stretches at a time. It can be tough to watch your kids sweat as he tries to sell candy door-to-door, but it’ll be better for him in the long run if you simply watch from the sidelines.
Let your child make his own decisions about what to do with her income
If you already have a system for dividing your child’s allowance, absolutely suggest that she use that system for her business income. But don’t insist. Let her make her own decisions — and then follow up later to gently point out the consequences, for good or ill. (Note: I admit this tip is purely hypothetical; if you think I’m wrong, say so.)
If possible, introduce your child to somebody doing the same thing in real life
When I was a young comic-book artist, I would have loved nothing more than to meet an actual comics professional. Sometimes the grown-up version of a job is less glamorous than what your kid imagines, but that’s okay. It’s good to learn what people do all day.
And, of course, make sure your child knows how to give proper change.
I spent yesterday afternoon chatting with my lawyer. Before I parted ways, I asked him if he had any advice for grade-school entrepreneurs. “Yeah,” he said. “Make sure your parents don’t take all of your money.” Ha!
Mea culpa
I apologize if my post on Saturday seemed rude or insensitive. That wasn’t my intention. Yes, I was laughing at the girl who couldn’t make change for me, but I didn’t intend to be mean-spirited. I love that she was out there selling donuts and cookies and lemonade, even if her small business was doomed to lose money. But I couldn’t help but be amused by her timidity. Why? Because I’ve been there many times before.
You know what? I hope that twenty years from now, unbeknownst to anyone, I’ll buy a new sofa or television or automobile in a store owned by this girl. I really do.
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There are 72 comments to "Capitalist Kids: Encouraging Young Entrepreneurs".
I love your Hardy Boys strategy; I use that with new DVDs I always get from my family (even though I don’t own a TV).
We should encourage young kids to be entrepreneurs, but we should also instill good mathematics skills as well. That, at least, is how I understood your former anecdote (which was a balanced point).
I love this. I didn’t think you came off as a jerk (simply pointing out a humorous, insightful anecdote), but I appreciate your humility in addressing that, and the in-depth article that came out of it.
I hope to have kids, and I hope I’ll have the opportunity to teach them entrepreneurial skills. My own dad has also been involved in his own business. I’ve seen lots of challenges associated with it, but I’ve also seen immense rewards. He works many hard hours, but he’s also gained some flexibility to spend time with family as needed.
As a result, I’ve learned that I want the challenges and opportunities of entrepreneurship in my life, so of course I’ll want (a piece of) that for my kids.
Despite the now-obvious pitfalls, the use (and danger) of credit will probably continue to grow, making it even more important to teach the value of money now.
Similar background JD, except that all of my father’s ventures failed … some more spectacularly than others. I, on the other hand, didn’t discover the ‘entrepreneur within’ until my 6th year out of college.
However, my son (without any prompting from me) discovered his inner-entrepreneur when he was 12 and at 15 he still runs his eBay business and a web-site that he set up to unlock cell phones for free (using a service called Trial-Pay).
What you suggest is very important to encourage our children to become the best they can!
A rule I have is to stop if I see a lemonaide (or such) stand. I talk with the child to see what they will do with the money. I drink my cup and say thank you. I leave them $10. I now have a friend doing the same thing. She liked the thought and enjoyed it when the kid goes “wow, $10!”.
I just hope they don’t close for the day after that or raise the price 🙂
Great story JD,The collecting pop bottles brought back old times,in the early 70s my family an i would ride bikes around town collecting coke bottles for a dime each,would fillup my army bacpac,In my early teens would call rich people,doctors,dentists,an see if they had any work i could do for them,being from a small town they all knew me an let me work,sweeping driveways;yardwork,ext.
I don’t have children myself. But I tried to help a friend’s child start a lemonade stand once. She wanted money and I suggested she could make money by selling lemonade. I talked to her about costs (lemonade and cups) how much she would have to charge to make a profit.And she was with me that far. Then I explained that she would have to sit outside and sell the lemonade and she said “No way”
I don’t know what she expected, the “Underpants Gnomes” would do the work?
I remember in middle school taking orders for friendship bracelets. Our mothers said it was like a Patty Duke episode. A problem was people saying they’d paid even though they hadn’t and didn’t have the receipt saying they had (my partner in crime’s dad was an accountant). If I had to go back we wouldn’t take orders and would just sell the finished products.
Great story JD. My dad had the entrepreneurial spirit too, but sadly none of his ideas ever took off.
What age do you think kids are ready for their own business endeavors?
I love when I see little kids selling things, but I rarely see it anymore.
With the internet, there are more opportunities than every for kids to make money. They can sell crafts on etsy, sell their old Pokemon cards on ebay, or even start a blog. Kids may need to be creative since jobs are so hard to come by these days. For instance, soccer reffing used to be a nice little income for teens. But now, more adults have become certified refs because of the economy. (That is just one example.) Kids can either learn young to find a way to make money, or do nothing and be broke.
I didn’t think you sounded like a jerk, it sounded like you were laughing at the situation in general, but I could see how it might come across differently to people who aren’t longtime readers. I thought it was sweet that you took time to help them work through their business problem. I did, however, think some comments seemed kind of harsh considering how little we knew about the girl. To say her inability to answer you was pathetic or assume she was trying to cheat you seemed harsh when it was just as plausible that she struggled in math or was painfully shy.
I’m also a sucker for kids selling stuff, which is hard when boy scouts sell their popcorn because that’s some of the worst popcorn I’ve ever tasted!! Luckily, last time they had a program where you could buy popcorn for soldiers, so I, uh, kindly(?) sent it all overseas and didn’t keep any for myself. My dad is the same way about buying from kids, but I guess the scouts didn’t tell him about the program for troops, so he was trying to pawn his awful popcorn off on me!
The kids were running a business, and, when one of the girls did not know how to make change, you saw it as a “teachable moment.” I also agree with folks who said that it’s more likely that either she was intimidated and shy or thought she’d get away with it than that she actually wasn’t capable of subtracting one from five.
When you decide to sell people things, you need to be prepared to make change. If the kids weren’t able to do that for whatever reason, a parent/sibling/baby-sitter, etc. should have been there to assist and supervise. If kids don’t run their businesses as businesses with proper practices, they don’t learn any of the lessons that they could be getting out of the experience.
Hi JD,
I didn’t read the comments on your original post, but I can tell you that you didn’t come off as a jerk to me at all. I think you were doing those kids a valuable service.
Probably the people who wrote comments were the ones who were offended, but that doesn’t mean that most people thought you were a jerk.
This brings back memories from eons ago. When I was in elementary school, I sold greeting paper and cards door to door throughout my neighborhood. I would present my brochure and people selected what they wanted. Most people ordered. Why I have no clue. My mom would take my orders and process the paperwork and submit the orders and I delivered the products when the arrived. It was fun and I earned different toys and products, but no money.
During those years, I also walked around the neighborhood house to house with my little red wagon. I collected old newspapers. When the trunk on my Dad’s car was filled, we would take them to a recycling center where we were paid by the pound to sell them the newspaper. It was always more than enough to buy a bike and keep me in ice cream in my early years.
Thanks for bringing back these lost memories!! Looking back it had to be part of my learning to be an entreprenuer and salesperson.
I can’t tell you how much money I made (and make!) off of horses.
I cleaned stalls for $5 an hour, I cleaned tack at shows, I exercised and fed horses, I taught other people how to ride. I was so dedicated that I made enough money to take lessons 5 days a week during the summers, and two or three times a week during the school year until I went to college. I made enough in college (and still do!) to pay for my horse.
If your kid has a hobby they love, it’s pretty easy for them to turn it into a job they love.
My son ran a coffee ‘n donuts stand at my yard sale for the early birds. He ran out of donuts within a matter of minutes. Folks just fell over themselves buying from him. One man even went to the local grocery store and bought him more donuts to sell! Today, my son is in his late 20’s, has graduated from college, has bought his first house and is still selling things. Thanks for the warm memory!
I remember I wanted to be a greeting card writer when I was a child and I got out the yellow pages business directory, sought out greeting card companies and mailed my greeting card slogans to them. One of them actually called back to say he really liked my work and asked if I could provide drawings as well (or something like that – I was really young and could barely remember). The guy wasn’t deterred hearing the voice of a child over the phone – he actually called more than once to talk business. Nothing came out of that, sadly, perhaps because I wasn’t able to come up with the accompanying artwork. Sigh. I still remember that with fondness though.
At the end of the school year, we used to ask teachers for broken unwanted crayons. During the summer my children kept busy sorting the colors, peeling the paper off, and melting them in tin cans in a electric skillet filled with water. Then we poured them into borrowed candy molds to make shaped crayons. They would sell them as stocking stuffers 25 cents each or 4 for a $1. It was a project that kept them busy all summer and did not cost a cent in supplies. When we would take the crayons to the pool, other children would clamor to peel the paper off and sort the colors. /Prior to Valentines day, we would use the computer to make cards. They would have a Valentine design on the front and would say “Have a Little” on the front, and on the inside “Kiss from me. Happy Valentines Day!” and we would glue a Hershey kiss (bought after Christmas) on the inside. We would make a sample of each card and put it in a Notebook and the kids would go door to door to take orders. This way they had only a small start up cost and we knew how many cards to make and deliver prior to Valentines day. They also sold them to classmates in school. Sometimes we added a bottle of “Squeezit” juice drink and then they became a “Kiss and a Squeeze”. They sold the “Kiss and a Squeeze” on consignment at the local Christian bookstore for $1.50. They cost 25 cents to make, the book store got 50 cents, and they made 75 cents on each sale. Out of 4 children in their 20’s today, one has his own business.
Great post. Though as I sit here reading I’m just wondering…hmmm is this the day I’ll go into labor (with my first) – I actually think about this a lot. One of my goals is that my children will be able to run a business before they turn 18. I’ve wondered what this would look like at younger ages – and I love the things you mention here.
Regarding the change thing – I guess I found the post more sad than amusing. I remember one time being in the grocery store with my mom in high school and a class mate was at the register. She miss typed something and had to call over the manager to find out what to do. The manager first said – give her the change. She looked so embarrassed because she really wasn’t sure how to do that. Yes – in high school. I guess in some ways that’s the problem with technology. People get so used to using a calculator or a register, that when it comes down to the actual dollars and cents people don’t know what to do… Hopefully, the little girl with the lemonade will learn earlier how to count change because she felt that shame earlier. Time will tell I guess.
This is great, I love supporting kids business’. I was the same, had several businesses growing up, sold sports cards, candy (got in trouble at school for that and my parents supported me) I’m now selling real estate and staying succesful in a very tough market, I contribute it to the work ethich instilled in me by my parents.
My only policy with supporting children is I will only buy from them. If a parent comes in without their child trying to do their work for them I’ll refuse and tell them to bring their kid in and I’ll be happy to purchase.
How sad that you don’t support college students! I had to sell butterbraids for a fundraiser for nursing school and luckily, my neighbors were generous enough to buy about 3 each from me and I sold my quota in no time!
I got burned trying to support elementary school kids. I bought a $10 subscription to a magazine and never even received one issue. I didn’t know where the kids lived nor did I know what school they went to. Next time, I’m going to make sure I can track people down who sell my stuff!
Great post. My entrepreneurial experience: All throughout elementary school, my brother and I had a stand every summer. We picked a spot on a corner street that received more traffic. We started off selling lemonade for 25 cents, but wanted to expand our business without more cost overhead. So we walked to a wild blackberry patch that happened to be growing in the woods near our house.
We would pick these, getting poked by all the thorns, but it was worth it because we didn’t have to buy them as an expense. We were able to turn our labor into profit. We also gave deals that would entice people to buy higher quantities of blackberries, and make more profit from it.
We also happened to be right next to a fire hydrant, and the county came by one day to release water from it for an inspection. They let us run our heads through it, and they bought some blackberries and placed them in their ice water jug while we were having fun. The blackberries turned out to taste better chilled, so we started chilling them in ice water after that.
I read this post before reading the one leading to it.
I feel some readers missed the point of the post, and focused on negativity… it was funny, or at least amusing, and shouldn’t have created such a debate.
But I am glad that it did because this post is quite worthwhile.
I used to sell little bracelets, and old comic books in front of my parents house, and the endeavor was a complete failure. Wrong product in the wrong place, and more importantly: not the customer bank we should have been targeting. oh well.
One learns from one’s mistakes. And those little girls will learn to have change on hand and possibly to amend their pricing strategy.
My 12-year-old son is quite entrepreneurial. He’s king of the lemonade stand and is the neighborhood’s go-to guy for cat sitting.
Because of this, he’s always swimming in cash. However, he’s a big spender and runs out of money really fast.
My older son is less driven, but never spends any money.
Guess who has more money in the bank?
-Katy Wolk-Stanley
“Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without”
P.S. Love the picture!
-Katy
First time commenter. The part of this post about letting your child sink or swim on his own made me think of something from my childhood. My family had a yard sale when I was around 9 years old, and my mom let me gather old toys to sell. I had a box full of Barbies and other dolls that I priced at two dollars each (probably 10-15 dolls in the box with assorted accessories.)
During the yard sale, a man approached my mother about the box of dolls, and she directed him to me. He offered me $10 for the whole box of dolls. I knew that the box was worth (to me) more like $20, but the man was intimidating and said something along the lines of “this is the best offer you’ll get.”
I sold him the box for $10, then later cried to my mom because I felt cheated. She asked me why I didn’t stand my ground and ask for more, but I didn’t have an answer. He was an adult, and I was just a kid.
Maybe the guy took advantage of a small kid, maybe not. But I like this memory because it reminds me to negotiate and stand my ground for what I think is fair…and that sometimes I’ll have to negotiate with intimidating people. This memory was echoed in my first used car purchase, when I didn’t let the salesman sell me gap coverage and an extended warranty, even when he told me he wouldn’t let his grandmother buy a car without either.
My impression of yesterday’s article was that you were helping the girls see something their parents had obviously failed to address: that you need to have adequate change–and the knowledge of how to make change–in order to make even the smallest kid-venture work. Avoiding this very real deficit in their small operation by leaving with the few coins they’d offered you in change would hardly have been a help to them in the long run; it simply would have let them continue without a critical business skill.
I really like this post and the advice to develop entrepreneurship in kids. I come from a community of small & medium business owners in India and it is quite commonplace in our part of the world to have kids help in the business part-time and also be a part of conversations about running the day to day operations. This practical training is as important as classroom training for future business leaders and many top businessmen have had such training.
My son has a bit of an entreprenuer spirit!
We have a similar scenario with you in the fact that my son put out a lemonade stand last year (he was 9) about at this time (in September). He wasn’t getting any lemonade, so he got on his bike and started driving around the block yelling lemonade for sale.
I thought this would be a go experience for him failing to selling the lemonade on a chill September day! I didn’t think he would get any buyers… But surprisingly… He did!!!
I think he made less that $5.00 that day (the amount was around $2.50, but it was $2.50 more than I though he would make. 🙂
I guess if you think outside of the box, anything is possible.
I didn’t think you were a jerk in your previous entry, JD. I think the girl was trying to hood-wink you into letting her give you the wrong change.
DH and I plan to let our kids do their own businesses when they get older – they could take care of pets, wash cars, etc.
I also disagree with those who thought you acted like a jerk.
You didn’t yell at her. You only asked questions that taught her things that her parents should have taught her. Perhaps the parents also didn’t know those things, but either way, you did the child a good turn. If she was embarrassed or self-conscious, well, too bad, but you have to learn to get over these things. A person cannot live her life enslaved to avoiding embarrassment. Some hurt is cathartic.
I’m wondering what kinds of things college kids have tried to sell you? I haven’t heard of college kids selling anything (anything specifically related to them being in college), except for raising money for charity, where you only get a little bit of candy – or nothing – for your donation.
Also, typo:
Let YOUR child make his own decisions
I LOVE this topic, JD! I am not an “entrepreneur” but I believe in teaching kids about $$ early in life and encouraging them to develope their own experiences. (3) examples from me working with my own children:
1) Without us paying one nickel, my first grade son accumulated a sizeable collection of Pokemon cards by taking other kids’ doubles, triples, etc. (Apparently, those kids did not recognize the value and my son did.) I joke that he is my future commodities trader.
2) One time, I told my 2 boys they could get a “sugar cereal” but they had to agree on it, then I went about the rest of my shopping. Later in the car, one said to the other, “don’t forget, because we bought Fruit Loops today, I get to pick Cocoa Puffs the next TWO times.” Oh boy! That became my springboard to an economics discussion on value, pricing, and a barter economy. Total teachable moment!!
3) For birthdays/Christmas, our out-of-town family send the boys gift cards and “mad money.” Each time, we head up to Target (or wherever) and go up-and-down through the store as the boy decides what to buy. I tell him I will contribute nothing and that he can only buy what he can afford (although for the younger one, I sometimes chip in for the tax since that arithmatic was beyond him.) At the checkout, I have him interact directly with the cashier. With this, my children are getting experience budgeting, making purhcase decisions (2 of these or 1 one those?) handling money in several forms (cash and “cards”), tracking balances, and dealing with adults. It’s great (as long as I reserve enough time that day for multiple trips around the store!)
Like I said – love the topic and loved this post!
I agree that kids that age should know how to make change. But random adults like you shouldn’t be lecturing them or trying to teach them a lesson–that’s jerk behavior.
Why didn’t you lecture their parents instead (who were actually responsible for the kids no knowing this)? You said the parents were standing nearby. Of course, you didn’t talk to the kids’ parents because the parents would have gotten offended, yelled at you to mind your own business etc.
Which you should have, I say.
I just wanted to add to the chorus that thinks you did NOT come off as a jerk.
If a reader thought you were cruelly mocking a child, they should read more charitably.
aw, I was afraid you were going to get bashed for that post (I think I’ll skip the comments thread, though). I took it the way it was intended, and I imagine that the girl was a little embarrassed, but un-scarred from the encounter! I thought you handled it well, but it would be easy to mis-read the tone of that post.
I don’t think you were a jerk, if kids are going to run a lemonade stand they should know how to make change, should have change, etc., or if too little a parent should help. Use the activity as a learning activity.
We made super bank off our lemonade stand, I was a little kid, probably 6 or 7, although my brother worked with me. We had a little business plan, we paid for the supplies out of our profits (we got the cups for free), we had an advertising plan (one of the kids went up the road with a sign), we funded the bank and we balanced it at the end of the day (if we didn’t give correct change we might have shorted ourselves), etc. The only complaint I have is that my parents should have made me save some of the money we earned in profits.
I like the miscalculated change from the bake sale story. Whether they knew how to do the math or not, I think it’s more telling how offended some of the commenters were about your recounting of the story. As if it’s not acceptable to gently point out that someone who is in charge of making change is not doing it correctly or to politely second-guess someone’s assertion. Like you are somehow obligated to give them a free pass and view the $4 as a obligatory nice-person tax.
Side note: if a cashier gives me the incorrect change, I politely explain to them what the correct amount of change should be. If they don’t fix it, or if the manager doesn’t fix it (which actually happens sometimes), I never shop there again. This doesn’t really matter in the bake-sale context, but not knowing basic math can have unintended consequences. I also double check my credit card receipts against my statement every month. Once I was charged by a hotel for 2 bottles of water at $6 each ($12 total), even though I intentionally avoided the super-expensive hotel water bottles. When I called the hotel, they explained that they probably noticed my own water bottles in the trash can, and charged me for them (even though the hotel ones were unused). Amazingly, that was the hotel’s policy, and apparently people rarely call to dispute the charges. Tell me, who’s getting rich slowly in that situation?
JD, this was heartwarming. I didn’t realize that a lot of kids who do fundraisers ARE budding entrepreneurs. It’s definitely worth supporting in the long run. I didn’t think you came off as a jerk on the previous post at all; I think some people make kids to be more sensitive than they really are. With that being said, we do have to let them live some things out on their own, including their business ventures. Let’s continue supporting the future!
JD think you original post was all in good fun. I’d be embarrassed for my kids and myself if I let the run a sale knowing they didn’t know how to make change.
My 3 children just ran a successful lemonade sale 2 weeks ago,. It made me proud!
I have to admit, as the parent of a child with an “invisible” disability (ie, most people who meet him have no idea that there is anything going on or that the quirks in his behavior are not something I can just “parent” away”), I’ve been having a tough time responding to this article or the previous one. I’ve always enjoyed the way you look at multiple sides of a situation, so it was a bit disheartening to see an article where the primary conclusion was one that presumes negative parenting/schooling. I do appreciate this follow up article, and like the points and advice you bring up, but when you point out that some commenters were “making mountains out of molehills”, I feel very defensive again, even though I’d chosen not to respond to the original post. I don’t think that you, or even most parents of “normal” kids, have a sense of the amount of “well-meaning” criticism that some parents of special needs kids face on a daily basis, in terms of their parenting skills. That’s not meant as a disparagement of you or other parents–until I was faced with the situation in my own life, *I* had no clue either. But it’s a valid reason why some people reacted very strongly to the original article. I should add that I’d felt you’d handled the actual interaction with the girls perfectly, in terms of guiding them to see the mistake–if only every person we came across was that kind!!
If I would add one comment to this current article, it’s to let the CHILD decide upon the level of entrepreneurship they wish to pursue, and that you, as the parent, should just be there to guide them. I put a lot of energy into trying to push my child to act certain ways that were completely against his nature, simply because I thought that he *should* be acting that way for his betterment. It wasn’t until I accepted who he really was, and let him choose his path, that we’ve been able to see him grow and prosper.
You weren’t a jerk.
I used to love it when I was a cashier and people would have their kids help with the math of the transaction. It didn’t happen very often.
What kinds of things are college kids selling? I can only think of when they stand in the middle of the street and ask for money for sports/similar. I hate that, and never donate.
On the other hand, I can’t think of anything kids around here do either. There aren’t that many between kindergarten and college in my close nieghborhood, though.
+ 1 to: You weren’t a jerk.
You weren’t some “random adult” either, and to “lecture” the parents would have been both completely counterproductive and a waste of your time.
The parents obviously didn’t – for whatever reason – adequately counsel their child about what was involved with running a bake sale. If you had gone up and said “your daughter doesn’t know how to make change” or “your daughter gave me the wrong change” it might have alerted them to the problem but it wouldn’t have taught the daughter anything.
Your approach may not have either; she may be a child with issues (although no one knows, not even those who apparently knee-jerked an assumption in the original post’s comments, which I have no intention of reading).
But at least your approach treated that child with respect: it was her business, and you expected, as her customer, for her to hold up her end of the deal.
If you engage in business, walking away with a bad deal isn’t “minding your own business” even if the other party is a child. It’s just teaching that child that being incompetent is acceptable.
Anyway. I hated having to sell things as a child. Never did it voluntarily. It was never something *I* would have wanted, and I couldn’t see why we should expect anyone else to buy it. Our schools had practically no budget, so we were always selling something. I’ll never know why the schools themselves couldn’t just have held a fundraiser.
Local parents wouldn’t have had to juggle all that crap for their own kids, wouldn’t have had to buy other crap from other kids, and would have been able to take an actual tax deduction for any support given to the school, instead of just spending money on crap.
Well, let me take the opposite view.
JD, you were a jerk.
It was your tone, and the title “Kids These Days”, saying as if ‘Jeez, when I was their age I solved quadratic equations with my left hand.’ All children grow at their own pace, despite what anyone else wants.
However, ahem, you are redeemed by your current article about your childhood experiences.
From time immemorial, elders have been saying “…the kinds these days…”. It will never end…
JD,
I don’t think you sounded like a jerk, and I don’t think you have anything to apologize for.
Actually, I think too many of us are too darn quick to take offense – and the internet gives this type too much power. But then, that’s probably a discussion for another day.
Just for the record, I thought the story was hilarious. I knew you weren’t doing it to make fun but just thought it was an interesting and fun story.
This advice for kids is great. I don’t have kids yet either, but if they are showing entrepreneurial tendencies as they grow up I will most certainly encourage it. My desire to be an entrepreneur did not really start until I was out of college. I wonder if it would have been different had my parents encouraged it while I was growing up.
When I read your initial post, for a split second I thought you were being mean by being so firm with the girls and insisting on proper change. After that split second, I realized that you weren’t being mean at all and that you were in fact helping the girls learn and succeed. I’m guessing that most people who were in your shoes would have just let the girls keep the extra money because 1) the girls are cute 2) people don’t want conflict with cute little kids and 3) people think it’s endearing to support children’s endeavors and don’t mind leaving them some extra money. As several people mentioned above, many folks just had cash to kids who are selling things without actually making a purchase. The children are trying to do businessmen, but the adults just turn their venture into a charity. This is all very kind-hearted, but it doesn’t help the children learn basic business skills, and it doesn’t give them the self confidence that comes from truly earning money. It’s a bit like the “helicopter parent” issue where parents do everything for their children and can’t stand to see them fail or hurt. This is all to say that I think JD did the girls a favor by giving them business and treating them like genuine business people. They got to learn from your transaction, and they made money, too. I often want to just give kids money when I see them selling something. But, that’s not the point – they are trying to be little business people, not charities. So, perhaps I buy a little more than I would otherwise as a way of having a business-like interaction while still helping them earn money.
You were not rude, you were not mean. You did this young lady a service. It’s these kinds of lessons that shape the adult we become. You taught her that while circumstances may be beyond her control for an instant, there’s always a way to get through a problem rather than around it. You also taught her accountability. Instead of just giving you all the change she had (which she knew was not enough)and hoping you wouldn’t notice, she should have just told you right away that she did not have the change. I’m sure next time, she’d do just that. It’s not just about math skills, it’s about social skills. Maybe next time there’s a problem set before her she won’t try to just pleed ignorance and avoid it.
Good for her though for trying to stand on her own feet. I loved doing things like that as a child. I used to pick flower petals (much to the chagrin of my father, who I could tell was not best pleased to be coming home to barren rose bushes)and mix them with water to make “perfume”…which I would then sell in little plastic bottles to the neighbours who would tell me over and over how much they “loved” it. I also used to make T-shirts with fabric paints I was sent from an aunt overseas. I charged a pound per shirt – with my friends providing their own shirts for me to decorate.
It wasn’t so much about the money I received for any of this – it was the thrill of doing something by myself, for myself. It made me proud to accomplish something, and for others to find value in what I was doing (even if they just SAID they did to encourage me). A large part of work ethic is taking pride in what you do.
Loved the article. My wife and I work in school and my co workers are always mad at me because I do not buy their children fundraiser or girl scout cookies. When asked why, I simply tell them because they aren’t teaching their child nothing if they are doing the selling. They usually walk off rolling their eyes until a random kid walks up and ask me if I would like to buy something. Utilizing this opportunity as a teachable moment I ask the child what they are selling, what it is going for and what they recommend. I always buy from the kids who do this because they really care enough to do the real work themselves. I might be wrong but I don’t believe the 10 ladies standing outside wal-mart forcing girl scout cookies at me are really doing anything beneficial for their child.
I understand where JD is coming from. I believe he means no harm. It sounds more to me like a call for parents to encourage kids to learn.
I do want to mention (not to defend JD or otherwise) that since JD does not have kids, he does have a different perspective. What he thought was funny, turned out to be offensive for some. He also does not have any dogs so that one post when he said “get rid of the dog” got bad reviews too. Myself being one of them as I have a dog.
I think the bottom line is we readers know that JD is not a mean person and he was just trying to turn this article into a lesson. I am not going to take this against him.
JD: Maybe you should think carefully when writing about kids, dogs, or other topics that you don’t have experience with.
JD, I don’t think you have a mean-spirited bone in your body!
How would you profit from all those cats you own? My cat is only good at catching those pesky flies!
Keep writing about stuff you “don’t have experience with” (though that interaction on Saturday, as short and brief as it was, DOES count as experience). I am tired of parents knocking around childless couples as if their taxes (which they voted for) don’t help pay for the same education, parks, and community services their kids receive. It was your duty as a member of the community to ensure she gave you correct change. Controversy and self-determination is what makes America great!
I don’t think you were a jerk, though you were probably way more firm than I would have thought to be (I think I’ll be more aware of this in the future, it doesn’t help the kid learn if you just let them keep the $5).
I am very concerned about the comments saying “lay off them, kids learn at their own pace” or that the girls may have been special needs. Both are quite true, but both are terrible excuses for a 9-10 year old to not understand 5-1=4. If the girls had a learning disability, then their parents should have given them the tools they would need to succeed at the task (calculators, practice lessons, whatever). If they’re neurotypical, then saying they’re just “learning at their own pace” is a total cop-out and a real disservice to our youth.
Actually I wish that my parents were more entrepreneurial and that I had learned and practised my skills as a kid. My parents did many wonderful things for us financially, but they were very, very risk adverse. This meant I have only recently started investing in stocks and my whole famiy are “employees”. Nobody has started their own business.
I am secretly envious of those people who have the drive and gumption to just give their own business a go. I think I am too afraid of failure!
I don’t think you sounded like a jerk at all in that post. It was a funny story, and you told it well. I still think she was trying to play you though, so she could keep more money for herself. Again, kids aren’t (usually) stupid.
I still remember when I was back in middle school. I didn’t want to depend on my mom’s allowance for my money, so I ended up making paper cranes and dog “packets” (envelopes filled with dog pictures, stickers and glitter). I also tried selling my own sketches (I was pretty good in art back then).
My biggest money maker back then was my sketches though. Many of my classmates (and even kids in younger grades) wanted to buy them. I believe I was selling them for a dollar a picture. Something of that nature. I even printed out little sheets of paper I passed around to everyone stating my prices.
I just needed to make sure teachers didn’t see me selling these things, as selling anything isn’t allowed in the private school I went to. But this article brings back good memories.
Christina
Great article for parents who want to encourage their kids…I didn’t think last weeks post was mean spirited either.
Nice follow up post JD. I didn’t take the original post as being mean spirited at all. I think that you are making us all have a teachable moment. The nice thing about life, is that we get to become better at skills if we so choose.
As a kid who was terrible at math, I don’t think you were a jerk at all.
I was not an entrepreneur by any stretch of the imagination. I did do a lot of fund-raising as a kid.
The lesson you taught those girls is the same lesson I was taught when I was working a concession booth at our softball park. I don’t know how many times my mom tried to explain counting change to me, but it never clicked until I handed a 60-year-old man the wrong amount. He said, “Oh, darlin’ this isn’t right…”
He explained how to count change. He started with, “My food and drink costs $5.75 let’s try to get to an even dollar amount.” Then he stood back and let me work it out, encouraging me as I went.
Embarrassing? A little. A strong learning/teaching moment? You know it!
I think my favorite memory of childhood entrepreneurship was when I was 7 or 8. I tried to sell zip-lock bags full of dirt and styrofoam peanuts as homemade potting soil.
I can not remember if I sold any, and I don’t know if it is safe in any way to plant something in styrofoam laced dirt, but at least I had an interest in business from an early age!
Dan Hill
http://atomicblowfish.com
I’m glad you wrote this post, because I also thought you were too hard on the girls. You seem like such a nice guy and it seemed very out of character! Thanks for a great blog.
This was a great post. It is both sad and great that it largely stemmed from the misunderstood post on Saturday. Sad that readers didn’t understand the innocence of the situation, but great because it inspired a great follow-on post like this one.
And finally, I appreciate the way you handle these sticky situations.
Making money off a pet horse (or cats, or what have you) is easy for a kid! Do 4-H and go to your local state fair. I turned a pet goat into a thriving goat business as a child. Fairs pay participants for placing in various contests, and by competing in every single contest available with my goats, I would regularly take home $1,200/year from the 4-H shows. Yes, it meant that I had to do the embarrassing ones like costume contests with the goat; but each contest helped me earn the money that paid for my pets’ upkeep. Beyond that, animal husbandry and taking care to register my animals as purebreds allowed me to sell the offspring for up to $350/animal and support the ones I kept.
Great post! And great responses from both sides. I love how you mention that failure is fine. My biggest challenge as a parent is letting my children know that it’s OK to fail! It’s the best way to learn.
In turning that to the bake sale and the comments that came from it, I think the kids doing it on their own is the perfect example of your wisdom here. If the parent had been involved in the bake sale, the parent would have stepped in immediately once the issue about change was discovered, solved the issue for the children, and it likely would have slipped quickly from the child’s mind. I bet your kind questions to the girls stayed with them much longer for the very fact that the parent was not involved.
As a parent, it is really hard NOT to get involved, esp when you see your child making mistakes. In the bake sale, while the items were priced correctly, that again is another lesson for the girls. Pricing is one of the most difficult market decisions of all–it really depends on demand/taste of the consumer. Letting a child set the prices and seeing which sells and doesn’t sell teaches a lesson in and of itself–again, much more so if the child is not told how to price but sees it in action herself.
As someone with kids about that age, I thought you were fine with the kids at the bake sale. Sometimes having a random adult work them through a real-life problem sinks in better than having a parent explain things!
As for entrepreneurship, we’re getting there. For now, we offer our kids opportunities to do work in our entrepreneurial efforts for pay. They really haven’t seemed interested in selling anything, perhaps because DH and I hate selling things. 🙂
A word about Girl Scout cookies: the troop only gets $.60 out of each box, and the prices are now absurd. Instead of buying any cookies, I give the troop $1, which puts them ahead by $.40.
My dad was also an Entrepreneur, and he always tried to encourage me. “Why don’t you sell this, how about do that?”
However, I never listened. In fact, until recently, I never showed the slightest bit of entrepreneurial spirit. I’m not sure what else my Dad could’ve done – I just wasn’t interested… probably because it was always presented as a way to make money, and I’ve never been motivated by money.
With my (future hypothetical) kids, I plan to encourage their entreprenurial spirit by not giving them an allowance – only allowing them to work for money, and teaching them about how it can be about more than just the money.
I thi
JD loved the story about the kids. Hate the fact that adults are so PC and get a bee in their bonnet over something that is meant to be a little lighthearted.
Here’s a tip for getting rich slowly. Start with $200 and build it at 3% a day. By the end of the year you will have compounded it to $9.1m. How you build on that $200 @ 3% is the hard part but not that hard if you put your mind to it. Stock, shares, cash deposit, betting exchange etc
JD highlighted good points. I do not understand why some commentators took offense at his earlier post. What is wrong in holding children to a high standard for example in the earlier blog about basic math skills. If you have heard or know about the ‘Self fulfilling prophecy’ you know that children or adults have the potential to reach for a higher achievement if the bar is set higher.
America is entrepreneurial because children start early here and are given the encouragement to be responsible and make their own money. This is far different from many Asian upbringing.
I remember the summer lemonade stands that I had as a child. Even then, networking played a huge part in the in the whole operation. I rarely ran the stand by myself, so I often had my friends help me out. In addition to my own customer base, I found out that my friends were also bringing in a customer base that helped the profits grow.
Very good post. Will definitely teach my son a few things about being an enterpreneur and let him make his own mind whether he likes it or not.
Thank you for this! I have an 8 year old who is fascinated with entrepreneurship, and I have been looking for ways to foster this interest.The book suggestions are a great place to start.