Several GRS readers have written lately with the same credit card problem — but not the one you'd expect. Perhaps in an effort to cut costs, credit card companies are beginning to close their customers' unused accounts. Nicole shared a typical experience:
I'm 26 and have a solid 8-year credit history. Despite really wanting to get rid of some of my old credit cards that I never use, I've held on to the accounts since they help my credit history.
I just got some bad news about my oldest credit card. Because I haven't charged anything on the account in 13 months, the account has been suspended and closed. I called and was told by several people that there is nothing I can do about it. It's as if the years I've had the account for and the fact that I've always paid what I owe means nothing. And for my past loyalty they're willing to potentially make me take a major hit on my credit score.
I feel like I'm being penalized for doing the right thing. Other than writing a strongly worded letter to Capital One and asking my other credit card companies to increase my limits, is there anything you can think of that might help me to minimize the hit on my credit score?
Other readers have reported similar problems. The irony of this situation is that it only affects people who are using credit cards responsibly. It's important to note that although closing a credit card — whether you do it or the bank does it — will affect your credit score, the damage is generally minor, and your score should recover quickly. Still, if you're planning to apply for a loan in the near future, this could be a nasty surprise.
If this has happens to you, absolutely ask the credit card company if there's anyway to reverse the closure. Be firm but polite. Ask to speak with supervisors. It's unlikely that they'll change their minds, but it never hurts to ask.
You might also ask the issuer to grant you a new card with similar terms. You'll still suffer a ding to the “length of credit history” portion of your credit score, but you've lost that already. By obtaining a new card, you'll at least recover the “credit utilization” portion of your credit score.
If this hasn't happened to you, there's an easy way to prevent it from occurring. If you have an unused credit card account that you maintain simply too boost your credit score, make a charge or two every couple of months. Pay off the charges immediately, as normal. By using the card once in a while, the issuer will consider it active, and you won't be at risk for taking a hit to your credit score.
And, of course, if you're carrying balances on your cards, this isn't an issue. You folks should continue to pay down your debt as quickly as possible while not using your cards for new purchases.
For more on this topic, check out this anatomy of a credit score.
Note that it is also important to cash out any unredeemed rewards you have at dormant credit card accounts.
We accumulated almost $100 in cash back with an HSBC credit card we stopped using. The card required my wife (the primary account holder) to call during business hours to redeem the cash back, and that call kept getting pushed down her to-do list.
Then we got a letter that HSBC had closed the account because we hadn’t used the card in a few months. My wife called up the next day and they refused to send us the cash back, citing fine print in the rewards program saying that once an account is closed any unredeemed rewards go away. We escalated all the way to HSBC’s executive customer service and still were refused our $100.
This happened to me about a week ago. In ’06, I opened an Apple credit card to take advantage of the ensuing discount when purchasing an iPod. I NEVER used this account otherwise and actually kept planning on closing it but never got around to it. Finally, they sent me a notification that the account had been closed due to inactivity.
My oldest credit account might be at slight risk, because I recently paid it off (after having carried a balance but not using the card for over a year). However, my second oldest account (which also has the largest credit line) is one I use regularly.
Assuming you’re not one of the “never carry a credit card in your wallet” types, just make sure that the credit card you DO carry is one of your older ones.
I wouldn’t care about this in the least. Most Americans would be far better off if they worried less about their credit scores and more about their savings balances.
The path to Getting Rich Slowly is to earn interest, not pay it.
If you play with snakes, you are going to get bit. I can’t believe at this point people still think the credit card companies actually care about anything other than profit. And the way they make profit is for people to carry balances.
We keep one credit card in the house, primarily because I travel for business and don’t want to float several thousand dollars of travel expenses out of personal funds. We do not use it for anything else, everything else is paid for in cash or by debit card. If we can’t afford it, we don’t buy it.
Last I checked, having a credit card was not a right, nor was having an account to remain open a given right. The issuer has the right to terminate an account at anytime. Be glad they closed your inactive account rather than calling in a balance you owe in full – which has happened to other.
Once again, read before you sign up for something. Its all listed in the Terms.
I agree that this is not totally unexpected. However, it is a bit of a downer that it will affect the scores of the responsible. I wouldn’t care so much about my score if I wasn’t preparing to refinance my mortgage to a shorter term and a lower rate.
Your credit score doesn’t matter as much as they’d like you to think it does. No one’s going to refuse you a mortgage because your credit score dropped from 770 to 765 after closing an old account. Your credit score is just a number, and you can live just fine with it being a few points lower.
Several years ago, when I was in the worst financial shape of my life, I stopped paying several credit card bills entirely, because I didn’t have the money to cover even the minimum payments. Now, several years later, I’m doing quite well financially, but my credit score is still fairly low due to the fact that these past blemishes stay on there for seven years. I’ve found that it really hasn’t affected my life very much. Actually, the annoying phone calls demanding payment affected my quality of life far more than a lower credit score did.
Once I gave up on my credit score and stopped worrying about it, I quickly found out that 99% of the time, it doesn’t matter at all. The only time it caused me problems was when trying to rent an apartment, but still, I’ve always been able to find places to rent to me, and was actually only turned down by one specific rental agency. I haven’t tried to buy a house yet, so it could be a problem there, too.
These are things that you don’t do particularly often, and if you already own a house, and are perfectly happy in it and not planning on moving, then your credit score really isn’t doing you any good anyway. Note that I no longer use credit cards at all, and so I don’t have to worry about how these companies might view my credit score.
Your credit score does not exist for your benefit. It exists for the benefit of lenders such that they can more accurately assess you as a risk when loaning you money. If you do not plan on borrowing money, it is essentially of no use whatsoever (except in the apartment rental situation mentioned earlier). One of the primary purposes of GRS is to reduce as much as possible the amount of money that you need to borrow, and that reduces the importance of your credit score accordingly.
“for my past loyalty they’re willing to potentially make me take a major hit on my credit score.
I feel like I’m being penalized for doing the right thing.”
HAHAHA!! Loyalty? Doing the right thing?
Take a step back for a moment and look at it from the business’s perspective. You are NOT loyal, because you HAVEN’T been using the card. Simply holding a card is not loyalty. You are NOT doing the right thing in the credit card company’s eyes. Doing the right thing would be running up a bunch of charges, not paying your bill every month, and paying them the 18% they are hoping for.
You are a TERRIBLE customer with NO VALUE to the credit card company. Luckily for you, that’s a GOOD THING! :)
JD is right. Pick a card, get one with good rewards, use it, and pay your bill every month. Also, get a huge limit (as long as you can control yourself). A big limit should help your credit score.
Cheers!
Seems like the CC companies are doing more to screw their customers in order to make a quick buck to meet financial goals/
I have been hearing about this problem over the last few months. Since then, I try to use both cards I have at least once a month. I then pay them off immediately. I use one of the cards quite a bit anyway, because of its rewards program, so I have to remind myself to use the other card periodically.
As a UK reader I find this quite surprising. It works completely differently in the UK.
1) If an account is closed the information stays on your credit report anyway, you keep the proof of a good repayment history (or evidence of a bad one).
2) Unused credit is a BIG no no over here. If you have a heap of unused credit cards it looks worse than if you don’t have any at all. A lender looks at how much you have available to you already and if they see a lot of credit available then they wonder why you need more and don’t want to risk you spending it all at once then defaulting.
Over here the advice is to always close down any accounts you aren’t using because lenders see it as a sign of responsibility that you only keep what you are actually using.
Different cultures I suppose.
I actually just had a credit card company charge me an annual fee and then two weeks later close my account. It was a card that I carried a small balance on and had been in the process of paying off (and all of my bills had been paid on time).
*shrug*
It really irked me, but I sent them a letter and they refunded the fee to my account.
Tyler made an excellent point up there.
The way that it can have a more immediate impact is if you close an unused card and your other cards are carrying a large balance. Then it will change your credit utilization which can have a bad impact depending on your resulting utilization.
Same thing happened to me with a Chase card. Got a letter in the mail and since I hadn’t made a charge in 24 months, the account was closed.
I was a little bummed about the credit score thing, but then I figured, it’s one less card to keep in the safe. I’m not planning to apply for a loan anytime soon, and one less card is just fine by me.
I just got my own copy of that letter last week, at least I know it isn’t just me now…
My older card is twice as old and has twice the credit limit of the rewards card I use day-to-day (and pay off monthly). To keep it open, I have my electric company auto-billing the credit card each month. This saves me from having to write a check (I couldn’t set up online payments for the electric company if I wanted to), AND it keeps my oldest credit card (which I CAN pay online) active.
Plus, I like having a second card around for when I discover the first one has expired (and the replacement is lost in the mail), or has its magnetic strip demagnetized by some of the equipment I work around. (Fun stuff!)
Is this really that big of a deal?
I’ve had two cards, that I haven’t used in years, closed within the past six months or so.
My reaction was basically, “Meh. Saves me the trouble of canceling them myself.” I’m left with the single card that I use regularly, and pay off monthly. I see this as a good thing.
It’s probably bordering on heresy to admit this, but I don’t even know what my credit score is. Furthermore, I don’t really care.
I run the free credit report once a year (The free report doesn’t include the score. You have to pay extra for that.), to make sure there’s nothing wonky on there and otherwise ignore it.
Though I probably did take a small hit on the “length of credit history” thing, as one of the cards cancelled was one I’d had since college. Again, “Meh.”
It is quite amazing to me that our society is so stuck on our credit scores.
I have heard people “mention” that they are “qualified” to purchase high end consumer goods, of course with no interest for 12 months, and x amt of dollars per month. I used to be envious of those folks because they got anything they wanted. Now, when I hear the word “qualify” and cringe, because that is just more consumer based, depreciative debt to get into (ugh).
I am a single mother with a 12 year old som.
I used to have horrible credit, and was in a financial pickle. We struggled for years, until I found out about the Total Money Makeover.
I decided to give it a shot, and it has been a blessing ever since. I am happy to say that I have no credit card debt, and will have my car paid off in March or April. I keep 1 credit card from my credit union with a zero balance, that I have had for 3 years. I have new furniture and appliances paid for in cash.
I was just informed that I was approved for an FHA backed loan with a 650 mid score. I plan on purchasing a new flat screen TV cash, once we move into our new home.
My son and I have been really blessed. We will soon have a new roof over our heads, we eat well, and have everything we need. I have a 2005 model car that I will drive until it falls apart, and will pay cash for a new car when it does.
It was very difficult to live on a cash basis at first, but once I pay my car off this year, I won’t feel like I am in financial bondage.
When you hear that your credit card company is closing your card because you are doing the right thing, count it all joy! There is less potential trouble to get into.
Having your score lowered 730 to a 719 is not going to kill you.
I had this happen to me too, I kept one card, kept it in my file box just in case I really really needed quick money, now it’s gone, luckily I opened the letter, most gets tossed with the junk mail.
Good Riddance! Wasn’t the last post about the evils of credit cards?
Ehh..I got two warring sides on this.
On the one hand, it’s nice that the CC companies are closing accounts that I don’t use since I would be doing that eventually.
And with the person’s cc closing. It’s Capital One. What did you expect?! They are one of the worst CC companies out there.
BUT
on the other hand, I’m looking to buy a house this year:
In this terrible economy.
With credit literally frozen and lenders now going to new extremes with the tighening.
In a crazy expensive housing market (So. Cal)
so having my credit score lowered. Not a good thing AT ALL! You get worse interest on your loan, or maybe even no loan at all. Even a few points can make a HUGE difference since you could be on the border between credit levels.
So, in essense, I could care less of the credit score if I wasn’t buying a house..but now that I am you better believe I would get pissed for CC for doing this. That’s why I buy really tiny things on all of my cards and pay them full every month to keep them current. Hopefully that’ll keep them happy.
Hell, I might even keep a small balance on the older ones for the first time in years. I rather pay a 9% interest on a small balance to keep my credit score good then pay a quarter point in interest on a 30-year loan of $450,000
Before I get to wrapped up in the CC companies evil scheme to undo my hard won FICO score…
Has anyone ever not gotten a loan and can be reasonably sure it was because they canceled a credit card and not due to some other factor in their credit history? I’m guessing “no” here btw…
My feeling is that canceling a credit card does indeed have a negative, albeit minor, impact on your FICO. If canceling a card means that someone is not going to get a loan (or a good loan), then it also means that other aspects of their credit are not in good shape either. Maybe they should worry more about those things than what effect canceling their card has on FICO.
Having that CC company cancel my inactive account sounds good to me…saves me the time of doing it myself!
Because of the mortgage problems and the banks refusing to lend each other money, this is become normal business practice for the credit card companies. Not only are they closing inactive accounts, but if you do have debt, they are lowering your credit limit to that amount which significantly hurts your FICO score. They know that there are so many homes in foreclosure and that many of those people will not be able to pay back CC debt, so they are trying to mitigate their damages while they can. A month ago, Suze Orman said she talked to Fair Issac and they are not going to compensate for this, so everyone’s scores will go down. Just remember, it is all relative. If you had a good score, even if it drops because of this, it will still be higher than a score for a person with bad credit before.
Pay cash or do without. Then, tell the credit reporting agencies exactly where they can put your “credit score.”
This happened to me recently as well. Called to cancel a card that I no longer use only to find out it had been closed for me 3 months earlier. Got a letter in the mail from another card stating that because I had not made a purchase on it in the last 12 months, it was canceled for me.
Why so many cards? I used them to get money or % off an item for initial purchase, or to take advantage of 3-12 months 0% interest.
I couldn’t care less, I don’t plan on buying a home or financing a car in the next 12 months anyway. I also think that most people are too consumed with trying to better their credit score when the reality is, even the best analystists can only speculate on how the score comes up.
This happened to me a few months ago. I called to ask if I could have it reopened but they said no. I wasn’t upset enough to pursue the issue, but I was kinda mad they would just up and close it for seemingly no reason.
I know they weren’t making money off of me but if it’s profit they are after then they should just start charging an annual fee to inactive accounts. Let those who refuse to pay the fee close the account themselves.
The issue here is that I (and I assume others out there) hang on to their first credit card just to increase their length of credit. If that one was to go, I’d lose about six years to said length. Old cards also boost our amount of total credit. With respects to FICO scores, what happens when the card company closes your account versus you closing it yourself?
I’m with Trevor. I actually hope I get this kind of a letter because I have a small stack of cards that I need to cancel, and keep putting off dealing with them. Most are department store ones, though.
I did just get a new card for one of my oldest accounts and I never activated the LAST one they sent. It’s in that pile I mentioned. So apparently BOA is not doing this, at least not to me. Of course when I opened that acct it wasn’t BOA, but with the way the banks changed hands over the years, it is now.
If you haven’t used your card for 13 months, do you really need it? As Chris said, NOT using the card is good for you, but not good for the CC company. They’re out to make a profit, period.
Why should the business worry about what’s best for you? If it were in your best interest to cancel the card would you worry about how good it is for the credit company? We all act in our best interest. The only question to me is if the behavior is ethical and moral, and I see no problems with either.
In fact as a CC customer I would consider it a feature if I were sent a statement saying “If this account is not used for 12 months the account will be frozen FOR YOUR PROTECTION”. I have had a chill go up my spine when I clean out my desk and find a CC that hasn’t been touched for a while because I forgot it was there. I have had my house broken into. If a thief found an active card it might have taken me months to figure out what was going on.
If you are in the process of paying down debt I can see it being a good idea to keep an account open until our other cards are paid off for the ratio of debt to credit to remain as low as possible. But every business relationship is symbiotic. The only reason a company remains “loyal” to customers is to build PR and therefore its customer base. And this is the way it should be.
It isn’t free to a CC to keep you on their rolls. A CC company has operating costs. Storage for your credit account (paper or virtual), postage for statements and legal disclosures, and a bunch of other tiny costs is marginal to a single person, but multiply that by how many customers and they may see significant savings by purging their rolls. They pass those savings on to share holders and other customers.
i have several credit cards that i use and i always pay on time.
yet 2 banks close my accounts this month and i lost over 40k of credit on 2 cards.
so make sure you rotate and use your card at least once a month.
I wonder if my Discover Card will be cancelled. I haven’t used it in 8 years. It’s my oldest credit card. Do people still take Discover? Ha.
Last year I focused on raising my credit scores for both myself and my husband so we could buy a house – I focused more on his than mine because I knew they would be considering his income more than mine (we ended up just going with his anyway).
So my focus since then has been less about credit score than it is about overall debt reduction. HOWEVER, if I got a letter today that one of the companies was canceling the card that I had paid off a while ago for my husband I would be very upset. Because even though we don’t plan to apply for any loans any time soon, we worked really hard to get it where it is. And I want to close them on our terms, not the credit card companies.
The only issue I see with this though, over all is that did the credit card companies disclose this when you signed up? I will have to take another look at the new disclosure booklet a few of the companies sent me this year. Perhaps that is where they mention it. IF that is the case, well I guess shame on my for not reading the fine print if it happens.
I have a store credit card with a company (Mervyns) that has gone bankrupt. Their Web site no longer recognizes my user ID, so I can’t access my account to see if the account is still open. What generally happens when a store goes bankrupt — are credit card accounts automatically closed? Will this type of scenario still affect my credit score?
Chris’s response was bang on. Loyalty to a company means USING their product, not keeping an open account with them that they have to pay someone to monitor simply so your FICO score gets a boost.
Pick a utility bill that’s the same amount every month – like the cable. Have the utility auto bill to your old credit card, and set up an auto payment to the card from your bank account. Voila. Problem solved.
But in the grand scheme of things, losing a bit of length is not going to be that big a problem. Car companies rely pretty heavily on FICO scores, but a bank is going to ask for a lot more detail than a 3 digit number. They’ll look at your current debt load, your current and potential earnings and your job security. After they take that into account, they won’t change their minds simply because you have a 4 year old CC, not a 6 year old.
Hi,
I’ve always thought that the idea of keeping an unused credit account open a silly idea. And the idea that it “hurts” your credit score even more ridiculous. If you have an unused credit account available to you, and you apply for a loan (auto, home, etc.) it’s just as likely they’ll refuse your application on the grounds that your existing debt/income ratio is too high.
Back before the days of subprime and Alt-A, CDOs, etc. it was more advisable to close unused accounts for this very reason.
These days, we’re told, “Oh no, don’t close them, you’ll hurt your credit score!”
If you’re a “responsible credit card user” in that you pay off your balance every month, never carry a balance, never incur interest or late fees, etc., then you are in fact, from the perspective of the debt issuing entity, a bad risk, because they’ll never make any money off of you.
Since “credit scores” are arrived at by a completely opaque and proprietary process, we will never truly know what helps or hurts a credit score.
To that end, I say, simplify your life and get rid of credit accounts you don’t use. They’re more likely to cause you harm than good in the end…
Just my deflated, over-taxed, $.02…
pll
Ryan @ #3 – Right on! I’ve never understood the obsession with credit scores. I own a home and have refinanced once and I have never, ever known my credit score. I could, however, tell you to the penny how much we have in savings.
Funny thing, this happenend to me last week, both Bank of America and Amex closed two ccs i hadn’t used in over a year.
I heard they are also paying people to close their HELOC.
Hmmm….yeah..that is a good point. I haven’t thought of it that way before.
If it costs money for them to keep your account open and you are not using it – or not paying annual fees, then I can see how they would want to either get you to close them or start using them.
It makes sense. They need to focus on the customers that actually use the card.
When I was self employed, if I had a client that had signed a contract, but never sent me any business for a year, but it costs me money just to keep that client, I would probably end the contract. Of course, I would call them first – so it probably would be a good idea for these compnaies to send out a card or something telling people.
However, if people haven’t used their card in over a year in this economy – when cash is tight – they probably figure those are the ones that are not going to decide to start using them now.
Regarding simplifying and not using credit cards at all – I respect the choice that some have made to do that. However, I like having at least one open with a good sized available balance (we have one with no balance on it currently) that we can count on in case of short term needs because we are still working on our emergency fund.
Credit can have an appropriate place in onces financial life.
“Credit can have an appropriate place in onces financial life.”
Absolutely agreed! I never said “Don’t have credit”. I merely said it’s better to not have things laying around you don’t use. You’re too likely to forget you have them, and you’ll likely be reminded at a most in-opportune time. For example, when someone steals your identity and charges something on that account! :)
I have plenty of credit, but I use it often, and responsibly!
There’s good and bad uses of credit. Do what’s right for you :)
pll
It’s probably about time that this happens. It seems like this decision will help reduce credit card theft, etc.
“Absolutely agreed! I never said “Don’t have credit”. I merely said it’s better to not have things laying around you don’t use. You’re too likely to forget you have them, and you’ll likely be reminded at a most in-opportune time. For example, when someone steals your identity and charges something on that account”
Point taken! I think I read your post too fast….this is what I get for trying to multitask on a Tuesday! =)
3 cc’s closed in the last couple months. Sent unrequested and went unused. Sorry we didn’t jump through your hoops, big business. Have you read about the rate jumps they’re hitting people with who have a chunk of debt? They’re Sharks and if you haven’t been bit your lucky. I was just going to not use the couple of store cc’s I have and let them close them, but I’m inspired to call now and tell them just why I’ll never use a cc again. Hopefully FICO will go the way of the Dinosaurs and cash and work history will be the new important numbers to get a home loan you can afford. Anything else you should have cash for anyway.
So…I get a come on from a card I haven’t used, a good 0% balance transfer offer. Times being what they are, the one balance we are still holding hasn’t yet been paid off, so I take the balance transfer offer…the transfer goes through…then the transfer is denied…I get charged a $39 fee [from EACH company-$78 total]…I call the credit card company that offered the transfer deal & am told that my account was closed due to non-use. After I receive & use a balance transfer offer. Didn’t I get a mailing to that effect? (No). Fees are reversed, CC company refuses to reopen/open my account and/or honor their balance transfer, 3 days later my notice arrives that my account is closed due to non-use and 3 days after that…yep, the same company sends me the same balance transfer offer again because “I’m such a good customer”.
JD, thanks for highlighting those two comments. This has been my feeling since I first followed Suze’s orders and paid to figure out my credit score.
I can think of two reasons why I would want an extra super special shiny credit score: car loan and home loan. Both a pretty far off for me. I know my score is in the mid-700s. I pull my credit report (for free) to check for accuracy but that’s it. I refuse to stress about my score.
I think the score gets overblown because it’s validly important for folks in debt with low scores who are actively trying to work with lenders on a much more regular basis than other people. I think this gets misapplied to those who don’t carry much debt and who don’t regularly deal with lenders.
I am angry that the actions of the credit card company, not provoked by me, can hurt my credit score. That’s what should be called a rigged game and it should be banned.
I am glad to hear it’s not that much of a bump downward.
We’ve had a couple of accounts closed on us. I’m refusing to pay the credit score game. It’s not fair, but I refuse to engage. We have one credit card that we use and that’s it. I have no interest in using three different cards and remembering to pay them off diligently. Why the hell should I have to do that? For a few lousy points in the rigged game? No thanks.
This is a good thing. Our economy is suffering because the credit bubble finally burst. The best way to dig out of this mess is for credit to tighten and for people to return to saving instead of spending.
Exactly like #14, I got a letter from Chase closing a card I had since it was unused for 24 months. Suits me fine. I am pretty sure I had asked them to close it a while ago since I didn’t need it but they left it open and I never followed up.
Jim
Surely the negative impact on your credit score of a closed account (if there is one), is by far outweighed by the benefit of not having the credit available?
In Australia when you apply for any loan (including a mortgage) they take into account all credit lines open to you, as there is a potential liability there. Doesn’t matter if you never carry a balance, if you have a $15K limit on your card they are going to assume you WILL run up $15K of debt.
Also, CC companies call customers who pay their bills off in full each month ‘Freeloaders’.
They are a BUSINESS. They are trying to make money, not be your friend. Like another poster said, they do not consider you a loyal customer because you are not using the card. You do not have a right to the card, and they can close it at anytime.
I am surprised they do not give you a warning letter ahead though, so they can drum up the last bit of business from you.
I didn’t find out Capitol One had closed my account until I called to activate the replacement card they sent me.
Yeah, it didn’t make any sense to me either.
It’s me again, from #3.
The only reason I know my credit score is because we bought a home recently. Mine was 796, my wife’s was just over 800.
We only use one credit card normally (and obviously pay it off every month). However, she uses the Victoria Secret card because they send her coupons for free stuff, and of course pays that off each time too.
When I was younger and more foolish (before my “conversion”) I took the Bose credit card for 6 months 0% so I could buy the $500 Wave system–still have it, still love it, and that was six years ago. I did pay it off before six months, and then promptly closed the account. Same thing for a Dell laptop. I also did the same thing with another 0% card, paid it off, then closed it. By that time I realized I was sick of paying for things that I already had, and I haven’t done that kind of shopping since–now I know better.
But my point is, I never worried about closing accounts. The only debt we have is the mortgage. Before we bought this house, I had always rented, I had no car payments, so no huge “credit history.”
The point is, my score was still fine.
Someone earlier mentioned basically that all this obsession with credit scores and what you should or shouldn’t do to have a good one is fabricated by the lending industry. And it’s hogwash.
I agree with Tom’s comment, comment 11. In Australia I’m not sure if it is exactly the same as the UK, but it sounds similar.
I recently looked at how much I would be able to borrow to buy a house, and the amount I could potentially borrow is directly related to the limits on any credit cards or other loans I have, and my earning capacity. So say I had a credit card limit of “x” and another loan to an amount of “y”, the amount I could borrow for a house is determined by how much I can repay due to my earnings, minus “x” plus “y”.
So unlike the US, where seems like the more existing credit you have available, the more someone is willing to lend you, it seems to be the opposite. The less existing credit you have, the more someone is willing to lend you, assuming you can prove that you have a steady and reasonable income with which to pay the loan back.
If lenders in the US have been lending more money to people who already have numerous credit cards / loans, because they have a good credit rating, then it’s no wonder this whole global credit crunch / recession thing is happening. I mean people who already have a lot of credit available are probably going to be pretty stretched financially, and are probably going to struggle to pay back any additional credit.
This happened to me last month. There seem to be a lot of people worried about credit scores (not my concern) and saying that the CC companies have a right to close unused accounts.
Well, fine…but the reason it’s obnoxious for me is that I no longer have that credit available to me, should I need it.
Chase effectively pulled my security credit card out from under me, without my permission and without giving me time to change their mind. As a single, female student…that sucks. Bad. What if my mom gets sick and I need to fly out to be with her? What if I need to repair an expensive part on my car so I can continue to get to classes? I don’t have emergency cash for that right now (disputing whether I should have that cash isn’t the point) and now I also don’t have any emergency credit to put towards those costs. Great. Thanks Chase.
If you aren’t using the card, you aren’t being responsible to the credit card company, you are just overhead to them and might start using the card after you lose the ability to pay.
I had a card closed on me a few months ago. I actually never used the card, not even once. I opened it to get cheap financing on a new computer, but ended up paying for the computer with cash.
I have a bill that automatically gets charged to the paid-off card every month, and an auto-payment sent through my bill payment website sent to the card on the same day. There’s activity, but no balance for even a day. Win-Win!
We called to cancel a Chase card a while back and they tried their best to talk us out of it. We hadn’t used it in quite a while and I was (and am) more concerned about potential identity theft than any credit score. We waited a day or two to think about it, and then called back and insisted they cancel it. It gets to be a big hassle and risk to have too many cc. Maybe I’m a bit “lax” on this issue since I’ve just been able to borrow money from family that we needed, and not the bank. But, I’d rather not have the risk of so many cards.
We got a AAA card originally because of the benefits ($50 gift card to their store for every $5K spent) and then they cancelled the benefit. So, I decided to find a different rewards card. Still have the AAA card because of the gas discount for when we are in the states, but use the other rewards card all the time now. But two is enough. I don’t like thinking about more than 2.
Perhaps they should change the name to Spending card instead of Credit card.
A credit is to be used when one needs it, but the cc company wants to see activities all the time, which raises the potential for them to call finance charges ( I understand it’s a business) I know some folks here will say that it’s better to build an emergency fund which I strongly advocate. but even for folks who are debt free, they still have expenses which means building an EF is not an automatic thing.
we don’t have cc debt, but we have a card that is used for auto payment, which is paid before the transaction is made.
as for the other cards I got them on rotation 1 card per month for one transaction, then it goes back to the vault. That’s my solution to be a responsible spender i.e. carry no debts, because the reality is we live in a Credit Score society.
@ Ashley #52.
“What if my mom gets sick and I need to fly out to be with her? What if I need to repair an expensive part on my car so I can continue to get to classes? I don’t have emergency cash for that right now (disputing whether I should have that cash isn’t the point)”
But that is exactly the point, or one of the key points, of this blog–the “emergency fund” or whatever you like to call it. What you should be striving for is to never have to rely on a credit card or a HELOC for unanticipated expenses. So do whatever it takes to have that money saved in advance. Work a little extra, cut out any unnecessary expense, etc., until you have that safety margin. In the mean time, for the type of emergency expenses you mentioned, I would imagine you might be able to borrow money from friends or your church or other organization, or in many cases an employer.
The idea that you need credit cards “for emergencies” was invented by the credit card companies. Before then it was called “saving for a rainy day.” Then the mortgage companies got jealous of the windfall and started telling everyone that they also needed a continuous and indefinite second mortgage available on their houses for the same reason. Only they came up with the less offensive euphemism “line of credit.”
Save your own money for a rainy day.
I have a recurring charge on my CC which prevents this from happening to me. I wish I didn’t, but at least I won’t take a hit for having an inactive card.
I feel bad for Nicole, but then again I had always heard that if you have a card you are not using, you should close it out right away. (Gosh, there are so many rules!)
Always remember that to the CC company, if you are not charging, you are not “doing the right thing” for them (ie, making them money).
Ryan
Ashley knows she shoul have an emergency fund, it’s not build up yet, and if I’m right she is talking about a big emergency, I have a small fund, a few $K, now say my furnice dies, then my car, and, and I need more then I have, so I kept a CC,
Dave, Ashley,
I know and I understand that. I’m not trying to be harsh. My point is just to argue against the mentality that we should rely on revolving credit, or credit secured against our houses as a remedy to unanticipated expenses.
Neither of these things were available to our grandparents’ generation and that’s one reason their savings rates were higher.
Your credit card company dumped you?
Good. Return the favor. Dump your credit cards.
My household became credit card free years ago and have been pleased with the lack of their influence on our lives. Yes, I can still rent cars, make online purchases and travel for business.
Not having a credit card isn’t the end of the world. It’s the beginning of living inside of your means and having to find ways to do for yourself.
My point is becuase we are responsible with not using it, they take it away and we don’t have the security of it.
I don’t want to make my life more complaceted by having to use it every few months, I’m running some risks by having high dedutable insurance, I could pay more for insurance, then have less to save, with I am doing, so in a way I was getting free or low cost, insurance from my CC.
different times, different tools. my great granparents lost a house to the grosery store.
This happened to me by Chase but I don’t see it as a problem. I tried canceling the credit card a couple years ago but they were so persistent on the phone, I finally gave up. So, in my mind, Chase did me a favor by canceling it. Your cedit score takes a slight ding but it isn’t a big deal.
First of all, most of you need to read JD’s other articles about credit scores and what effects them. Many of the comments posted are incorrect when it comes to what causes a score to rise or fall.
Second, many of you also assume that because you aren’t buying a car or buying/refinancing a house, your credit score doesn’t matter. Well it does. Credit score is used by many other places including apartment rentals, insurance companies, and potential employers. That’s right, your credit score could cause your car insurance to increase or could cause you to NOT get a job. My last 3 employers have all run a credit report on me along with the company from which I bought life insurance. The companies see people with high credit score as more responsible. If you are responsible enough to pay off your debt and manage finances properly, then you are less likely to be a slacker employee or poor driver. Yes, I realize how dumb this sounds but that doesn’t change the (scary)reality of it.
This is great news for the credit card companies AND the consumers. I’m amazed by the whining from the woman whose account was closed. It shows how American culture has become way too dependent on debt and credit scores! As others have mentioned, your credit score will drop in inconsequential amount, if at all. Second, people see on your credit report wether you carry a balance on the card. They will know that an card that’s been open for 5 years with no balance is essentially meaningless in terms of commenting on your ability to handle credit. Almost every American would be well-served to have half or all of the credit cards in their wallets cancelled.
This happened to me with a Chase Visa card. I didn’t mine one bit. It actually made me happy to realize that someone at the company had woken up and started paying attention to who held their cards and how the credit was being used. I hadn’t used my credit card with Chase in several years. If I were a company, I’d want to have a better sense of my accounts and how much of a credit line I was extending, and I’d probably also want to cancel useless accounts that weren’t active.
JW – please don’t encourage your readers to game our ridiculous credit card and credit score systems. Instead, if people save and live without debt, they’ll be just fine.
This just happened to us, too. The only problem is that it is the only card my husband has in his own name — i.e., his solo credit should I be hit by the proverbial bus. He got 60 days’ notice, however. My business card also got its credit line reduced — but it still is a few thousand higher than I’ve ever charged it.
Ironically, I asked Chase to close one account, and I just saw that they didn’t do it.
I think people are going both extremes. There needs to be a balance.
I think it’s foolish to have too many credit cards.
I also think it’s foolish to have NO credit cards.
If you are responsible with your finances having one credit card isn’t making a “pact with the “devil”. It’s a means to use your money, and have some side benefits such as credit protection from online theft, etc.
I would never in my life be naive enough to use a debit card as a method of purchase for anything online or at places such as a gas station.
For CC’s they give you theft protection. Most companies extend that to debit cards but I wouldn’t trust them more than I can throw them for that. Can you image having your bank account funneled out while you’re trying to fight to get the money back?
Also in my mind, a cc is for small purchases that are paid off in full monthly. Not paying for a new roof on your house, etc. Having a “house” fund and/or an emergency fund is much better for that.
Really interesting comments. I also agree that a CC is not inherently evil and if you use it responsibly it should not be a problem. But I still rather have a $20,000 emergency fund than a $20,000 credit limit on a “spending” (I like that) card. We have only ever had 1 spending card.
Closed one of two MBNA card accounts in ’07. One is enough; don’t need twins.
CapitolOne suspended and closed my card account last month.
I stopped using the card last year because the customer service was terrible. Cap1 will send me a check for the unused bonus points. Told them that I would use the check to throw their going away party. Good riddance.
I just had a similar experience. I had a Citibank card that I never use with a 20k limit. Yesterday in the mail they sent me a letter that they were lowering the limit $2500 and could close it if I continue to not use it.
I experienced a variation on this theme when I received a letter yesterday reducing the credit limit on Citibank mastercard down to $3000 – I never charge more than a couple of hundred dollars on it a month and pay it off every month on time. I guess they decided I wasn’t using it enough. At first I was chagrined – I have a great job and am responsible with my credit so they are punishing me to compensate for the fact that they were irresponsible about extending credit to high risk customers. Then I was like – oh well – who cares?
I’m becoming less and less concern over my credit score. I check it to make sure there isn’t any fraudulent charges or mistakes.
I’ve been told my score it low since I don’t have enough credit history. I believe it is because I don’t have a ton of credit cards. I have one active credit account account and one that is probably going to close due to inactivity.
We’re paying out debt down and building savings. The score I’m looking at is my account balances.
This happened to me this week – a card I got about 16 months ago (and paid off immediately after buying a computer) was closed without warning.
Fine with me – I had been planning to close it anyway, but had put it off because of the hassle they usually give you when you try to close an account.
to Ben in #65:
“Credit score is used by many other places including apartment rentals, insurance companies, and potential employers. That’s right, your credit score could cause your car insurance to increase or could cause you to NOT get a job.”
I get that. But my point is for pulls like those the difference of a few points or even a few dozen probably doesn’t make a Yes/No difference if your credit is good. I have no problem pulling your score religiously IF you are rebuilding your credit back to the mid-high 700s. I just don’t think it’s necessary for folks with high credit scores to pull them as often or focus on them as much. They probably only need to focus on it in six months to a year leading up to obtaining a new secured loan where the score can impact interest rates along a sliding scale.
I just got a letter in the mail the other day from Citi Cards (Citibank Business Credit Card) regarding my credit limit being lowered. My credit limit was around $34,600 although I never charged more than a couple thousand dollars. Over the past couple of years it went up and up without my request. The letter told me they adjusted my limit, based on my prior spending, down to $5500. So, I suppose it is all a part of the companies trying to hold back potential future losses. The next to big problems after the mortgage mess will be 2nd mortgates (HELOC’s) and Credit cards–good to see the company’s trying to halt the coming disaster now–six to tweleve months ahead of time.
I find this really surprising. I had paid off all of our cards, but then ran one up badly when dealing with my mother-in-law’s last illness and death. Last month’s payment was posted one day late, and even though it was for THREE TIMES what the minimum payment was, the company hiked the rate to 27%. I looked through all the credit card offers for lower financing and chose one on a card that I have for 0%. Called the offices, talked to a very nice person, who said I hadn’t used it since 2004 (when I paid it off), and offered to send me $ 27,000! Way more than I needed or wanted, so I just transferred the balance. It seems strange, though, that I could get so much credit so easily after not using that card for 5 years.
Personally I would not mind a bit if all the accounts I don’t use closed themselves. It would save me a bit of trouble. My score is in the upper 700’s and I don’t plan on borrowing anytime soon; also, the card I use is the oldest one and the one with the best rewards. I am a lousy customer; I pay off my balance in full each month. :D
That being said, I am not a bit surprised that Capital One started the rush. They are the worst of everything credit card companies have to offer. You could not pay me to carry their card. What they did to my husband years ago is now called “predatory lending” and is illegal; the lawsuit against them at the time failed to put them out of business but instead made them more subtle. If you have their card, read the fine print!
I view having a credit card as a privilege, not a right.
Thank you everyone for the comments! I’m the Nicole who asked the question and I really appreciate all the feedback.
Kristy – I’m not whining about it. I’m asking for advice from people who have more experience than me if I should be concerned and how I should deal with the situation. I hope you can respect that.
My husband and I are very frugal and are managing our money well. However my husband is about to graduate from chiropractic school so we have a lot of loans and will have some big expenses coming up (opening his practice, potentially buying a home in the next few years) so I have been working hard to keep our credit scores as high as possible. It sounds to me like since this is happening to many people it may not be a problem (and that now I don’t have to keep debating if I should cancel that card since I never use it – partly due to the high interest rate!).
They just did you a big favor. You just don’t see it yet. Someday you will.
Now, if you could get the rest of your creditors to cancel those accounts then you will really see the light.
I have debated the use of CC so many times my head hurts and I have yet to hear a compelling reason that outweighs the risks. Not one.
The man is getting out of your way. Don’t stop him.
No idea if someone already made this comment. I’m not reading through 81 comments. I take exception with this comment, “I feel like I’m being penalized for doing the right thing.”
Right thing according to who? How naive. The right thing for the credit card companies (aka “snakes”) is for you to charge it up to your limit and make minimum payments. Incur lots of fees. What’s right for you and what’s right for them are two very different things.
Credit card companies are doing lots of unsavory things in the midst of the crisis. I had Citi double my APR (I opted out, thank you) and AMEX shredded both personal and business credit lines. All this with a perfect credit history and great FICO score. Just today I read that AMEX is screwing people in the UK on interest rates: http://tinyurl.com/7wmax9
Same happened, but it turned out that I couldn’t find the old card. So when I called they ended up canceling the old number and sending me a new card anyway.
I worked in the credit card industry for a while and was surprised to learn that the common term to describe folks who don’t carry a balance is deadbeat! I never thought I would strive to be a deadbeat but I am and am proud of that fact!
One other note about an individual’s credit rating that is very important.
The MORE credit you have access to, the LOWER your credit score is when being considered for a new card or loan.
This is because may be of greater potential risk to the card provider in the case of a personal crisis, fraud, etc. It also costs a lender to keep your card open, as this is exposure to you (the counterparty), and lenders must keep capital aside for that exposure.
Keeping active only the credit that you need (credit cards, lines of credit, etc.) will help you maintain the highest credit rating.
I would suggest to those who are keeping unused cards active for long periods of time that the bank`s actions are beneficial to you.
Todd M Says:
“The MORE credit you have access to, the LOWER your credit score is when being considered for a new card or loan.”
Are you sure?
If so, how did I get an 810 credit score with $114k credit available? If I cut that down near zero, will my credit score increase? If what you’re saying is true, then the impact is amount of credit is minor.
A friend brought this to my attention. He had an account with a furniture store abd paid it off 4 months ago. The sent him a letter yesterday telling him that they were closing the account for inactivity and were reporting it as “creditor closed account”. He was worried as he has been trying to rebuild credit after a divorce. I know he will take a hit on his credit score though it wasnt a long term account. I was more interested in how the comment “creditor closed account” would affect it.
I’m surprised more people haven’t latched onto the idea of setting up a bill to be billed to an unused card. My husband and I are rebuilding credit right now and I have two small monthly fees and our cell phone bill charged to our two cards. This way there is SOMETHING on them every month and it looks as if we’re using them far more than we are. It’s doubtful that our CU will cancel either of them, but this way we not only earn some rewards but rebuild credit at the same time.
I have been told my credit card account has been closed by hsbc the reason I found this out was due to a phone call I made to them inquiring about my account. I hadn’t used my account for about 8yrs. I do think I have money in my account but they insisted there was no money in the account and that is why they closed it. I wrote a letter to the hsbc bank asking them to post out the last three months statement on the account but they refused to do so. Can anyone help me here? I thought I could have been able to avail of my statements