Drafting a plan for discretionary spending

I’ve decided to develop a budget.

This probably sounds strange coming from a guy who has been anti-budget all his life. Besides, haven’t I paid off all my debt? Don’t I have a positive cash-flow of over $1,000 per month? Yes, these things are true. But I’ve noticed something troubling: I’ve begun to experience that lifestyle inflation I’m always warning others about.

Lifestyle inflation is the natural tendency to increase our spending as our incomes increase. When we get a raise at work, we’re likely to spend more at home. A little lifestyle inflation is fine. But there’s a real danger of becoming too comfortable with increased spending. Once we become accustomed to a certain lifestyle, it’s difficult to cut back.

Cracks in the Foundation

On our flight home from Orlando, Kris and I talked about my spending. It has increased in recent months. Some of this is deliberate. I’ve made a conscious decision to allow myself to spend more money on Wants. I can afford it. The trouble is that I’ve begun to spend indiscriminately again, and I’m afraid that’s a slippery slope. I’ll buy random magazines at the grocery store, or pick up a game for the Wii that I’m only half interested in.

I’m certainly not spending beyond my means, but I’ve begun to make more impulse purchases. I want to correct this now — before it becomes a problem. In the past, I’ve used a spending plan to help me meet my goals, and more recently I’ve been following the broad outlines of Elizabeth Warren’s balanced money formula:

But sometimes broad outlines aren’t enough. In this case, Kris suggested that a budget might help curb my impulsiveness, and I think she’s right. With a budget, I can set specific goals. I can focus on the things I really want instead of just spending on random things that appeal to me in the moment.

So, I’ve decided to create a budget. Not a comprehensive budget — my Income, Needs, and Saving are all fine — but a budget for my Wants. I want to exercise discipline in this area so that I’m spending on things that are actually important to me instead of random stuff, stuff that ultimately turns into clutter.

Blueprint for Success

To start, I reviewed my discretionary spending from last year and compared it to the totals from the first four months of 2009. This is where tracking every penny you spend can prove valuable. By comparing my past spending to my present spending, I’m able to detect trends. It’s very clear, for example, that I am again spending too much on dining out. Time to cut back.

Next, I thought about my goals. What is it that I really want to do? Lately, travel appeals to me. Kris and I both would like to take a vacation to Europe in 2010. To make that happen, I need to save. This gives me a medium-term goal to save toward.

Finally, I allocated a specific amount of money toward my monthly Wants. Remember, because I’m self-employed, I have an irregular income that passes through my business account first. If I pull out $2500 per month (after taxes) to act as personal income, that gives me $750 to spend on my passions. That should be plenty.

Note:Based on my Income, Needs, and Saving, I can afford to allocate $750 for Wants. This might seem high to some GRS readers. It would have seemed high to me once, too. But because I’ve paid off my consumer debt, I have $750 per month to spend on the things that make me happy.

Building the Budget

After collecting the data and setting my goals, I made a first pass at a budget. This is what I’ll use for June and July:

  • Books: $50/month
  • Comic Books: $50/month
  • Entertainment: $50/month
  • Clothing: $50/month
  • Charity: $50/month
  • Dining Out: $200/month
  • Vacation 2010: $200/month (plus small windfalls)
  • Miscellaneous: $100/month

Obviously, you might make different choices. I know that many GRS readers are avid contributors to charity, for example, and I suspect few of you budget for comic books! These are the allocations that seem to make sense for me and my situation. I’m sure that I’ll make changes to this budget as I work with it in the real world.

Actually, I have a lot of questions about how a budget should work in the real world. Because I’m a budgeting novice, I could use some help. I’m hoping that you experienced budgeters can answer some of my questions:

  • How often do you re-evaluate your budget? Do you make monthly adjustments? Quarterly? Yearly?
  • If you go over budget for a month, what do you do? Do you make immediate adjustments? Or do you simply try to correct things the following month?
  • What if I go under budget in a category? Does that mean I get to carry that money into the next month? Can I use it for a different Want category? (Perhaps sweep anything extra into the Vacation fund?) Or does does that money go to Saving instead? Or should I donate it to charity?
  • How do you track your spending against the budget? If I used the envelope system, I’d allocate the actual cash to each account before-hand. But what if I don’t want to have that much cash around the house? Is there a good way to keep track of current spending in each category? Should I carry a notecard with my monthly spending on it? (That seems to be what Bargain Babe recommends.)
  • Do you try to further reduce spending on these categories? For example, should I try to drop my budget for Dining Out even more?

This is a strange new world for me. Over the past year, I’ve been pursuing more and more advanced personal finance subjects and concepts. Yet here I am, in better financial shape than ever, about to implement a basic skill I’ve never mastered before. That’s okay. I believe it’s important to continue focusing on the fundamentals even as we tackle more advanced topics.

My Discretionary Spending: Bits and Pieces

I want to talk about a couple of my spending habits. One is a worrisome trend, and one is a thing I’m doing right.

Food for Thought

Long-time readers know that Kris and I love to dine out. It’s one of those things we’re willing to spend on. We cut corners in other areas of our lives so that we can afford to make this happen. Still, I’ve been concerned about my restaurant spending for the past couple of years. It seems a tad excessive.

How’d I do last year? Well, my grocery spending dropped, but my restaurant spending went up again — a lot. Here’s a look at five years of data:

  • In 2005, we spent $1423.39 to dine out 100 times, for an average cost of $14.23 per meal.
  • In 2006, we spent $1869.58 to dine out 108 times, for an average cost of $17.31 per meal.
  • In 2007, we spent $2051.93 to dine out 84 times, for an average cost of $24.43 per meal.
  • In 2008, we spent $2628.08 to dine out 77 times, for an average cost of $34.14 per meal.
  • In 2009, we spent $3443.61 to dine out 69 times, for an average cost of $49.91 per meal.

Holy cats! Will you look at those numbers? We’re only dining out about half two-thirds as often as we were in 2006, but we’re spending nearly three times as much per meal. At the current rate of spending growth, we’ll be spending $300 per meal in 2015! Since I can afford our current spending — I’m not living beyond my means — the real question is: Am I getting my money’s worth? I’m not sure that I am.

If I’m honest, I have to admit that I don’t like the idea that we’re paying $50 per meal. I’d much rather return to our former habit: Dining out more often, but spending less each time. To that end, I’ve been brainstorming ways we can work to cut costs:

    • We could do a better job of looking for discounts. We have an Entertainment book, and the local paper often features specials at local restaurants. We should take advantage of both of these. We used to do this, but have fallen out of the habit (primarily because we’ve become so used to eating at the same places again and again).
    • We need to find more cheap places to eat. Half the fun of going out is just going out. Sure, we love the fancy restaurants, but we used to be happy with Dairy Queen. (This is lifestyle inflation in action!) The real problem is that the cheap places I know and love (Cha Cha Cha and Imperial Garden) aren’t Kris’ favorites. We need to find cheap places we both like.
    • When we do eat in the same old haunts, we need to make an effort to reduce our spending. It’s okay to have an appetizer, entree, dessert, and drink all in the same meal now and then, but we could save money by cutting one or two of these from the mix each time we dine out.
    • Finally, we should invite friends to our home for dinner more often. As soon as the book is done (getting close!), I’m going to make a habit of inviting one family to dine with us every couple of weeks. We used to do this a lot, but have fallen out of the habit. It’s fun and frugal to have folks over for dinner.

So, that’s one part of my financial life that still needs work. Next, let’s look at something I’m doing right.

Tangent: Portlanders, help me out. What are your favorite cheap places to eat around town? Bonus points for inner southeast, West of 39th from Hawthorne south to Oregon City.

A Waning of Want

Here’s something that amazes me: We’re twelve days into the year and I haven’t spent anything yet on personal expenses. I haven’t even felt the urge. I’ve bought gas for the Mini and groceries for home, and Kris and I went out to lunch last Friday, but I haven’t spent a dime on gadgets or books or games or toys or magazines.

“Big deal,” you might say. “That’s how it should be.” You’re right. But for me, this is a big deal. All my life, I’ve had the uncontrollable urge to buy Stuff. It used to be that I couldn’t go more than a day or two without buying something. Even while writing this blog, that’s been the case. (I’ve just learned to channel my desires into smaller, cheaper things.) Now, as last, I seem to have licked it.

I still want things — no question! — but I’ve become very good at ignoring the wants and moving on. How?

  • Sometimes, I just put down the thing I want, turn off my brain, and walk away. I force myself to stop thinking about it. (Usually by thinking about something else — like our upcoming trip to Europe, and how I need to save for that instead.)
  • If I still want the thing when I get home, I put it on my Amazon wish-list. For whatever reason, that’s often enough to satisfy the strange inner workings of my mind. I feel comforted knowing I’ve let myself put it on a list where I won’t forget it.
  • I’m very good about using the 30-day rule to control my impulse spending. My Amazon wish-list plays a role in that, but so does my mountain of index cards. (My life wouldn’t be complete without index cards.) I have a handful of cards on my desk filled with notes about the things I want. It’s amazing how many times I sort through this stack and end up throwing cards away because I no longer want the item I’ve written down.

These techniques help me deal with desire. They don’t quell it completely — nor would I want them to — but they do keep it in check. That last rule is probably the most effective. By delaying purchases 30 days, I don’t feel like I’m denying myself. I can still buy what I want if I want it 30 days later, but I’m not just giving in to impulse spending. (When 30 days rolls around and I do still want something, it actually feels pretty good to be able to buy it.)

My current spending moratorium isn’t permanent, and I know that. In fact, the new Dick Tracy anthology comes out tomorrow, so if nothing else, I’ll be shelling over $25 for that.

Remember: there’s nothing inherently wrong with spending money on things that bring you joy. Problems arise when you finance these purchases with debt. If you’re meeting your other financial goals and have money left over, it’s good to indulge your interests and passions. Just make sure you’re getting value for the dollars you spend.

A Look Back to Previous Years

I believe there are two components to building wealth:

  • Reducing costs
  • Boosting income

Doing one or the other can help you meet your goals, but to really succeed, you must do both. My goal has been to create a significant positive monthly cash flow. I’ve managed to do this. But as my income increases, so does the temptation to spend more. Have I been able to fight the urge? It’s time for the annual review of my largest sources of discretionary spending:

Comic Books (2005: $2810.52, 2006: $3202.91, 2007: $897.08, 2008: $550.51)
Although I use comics as a prop for laughs at Get Rich Slowly, I’ve genuinely struggled with my spending on them in the past. Not this year. I made vast improvements in 2008, actually spending less on comics than I had planned. There are two reasons for this. First, I’ve narrowed my focus, collecting only those titles I most desire. I’m also making an effort to read all of the books I’ve bought but never finished. These two changes have helped me to spend less on this hobby.
Books (2005: $1049.91, 2006: $657.96, 2007: $702.73, 2008: $404.49)
At one time, I spent over $200 a month on books. Now I spend less than $40. I’m content with this number, especially since many of these are for our monthly book group. One reason my inclination to buy books has decreased is that I’m able to purchase personal finance books through Get Rich Slowly, the business. (Plus authors and publishers send them to me for free.) This gives me a never-ending source of reading material, and makes me less inclined to spend time in a bookstore. And again, I’m trying to read books I own but have never finished.
Entertainment (2005: $478.81, 2006: $543.55, 2007: $1094.83, 2008: $897.91)
This number isn’t as bad as it seems. It includes two Decemberists concerts for me and Kris, and it also includes some of our television viewing. (Remember that Kris and I cut back to basic cable, and now we watch TV through Netflix and through the iTunes Music Store.) There’s also a one-time $236 event here that ought to have been a business expense. I’m not unhappy with my spending on Entertainment.
Pets (2005: $397.76, 2006: $471.03, 2007: $625.52, 2008: $378.75)
Many personal finance writers view pets as an unnecessary expense. To me, $35 a month to keep four cats is a bargain. It only costs me about a quarter a day for each animal, and they bring much more joy to my life than that. If Kris would let me, I’d be the “crazy cat lady” on the block. (Are there “crazy cat gentlemen”?) Note that our actual pet expenses are greater. Kris pays for their food, and that’s not reflected in these numbers
Vice (2005: $1055.33, 2006: $768.95, 2007: $431.89, 2008: $924.79)
This includes wine, liquor, pipe tobacco, poker nights, etc. I don’t smoke regularly, but I do smoke a pipe maybe a dozen times a year. Most of this expense is for alcohol at dinner parties and social gatherings. My alcohol consumption did increase during 2008, which is a concern, but that’s not the reason for the increased spending. For the first time ever, we bought a couple of cases of wine. This will actually reduce the “wages of sin” in the long run, but it bumped the number for 2008.

Although this report is interesting, there are problems with my methodology. For example, I’ve included my grocery spending above (although it’s not really discretionary), but have not included spending on exercise equipment (which is discretionary). Also, Kris pays for much of our grocery shopping. Because we keep separate accounts, her share of that expense isn’t reflected in these numbers.

In order to be consistent from year-to-year, however, I’ve elected to continue reporting the same expenses in the same ways. You’ll have to take my word that the figures here are representative of my spending as a whole. This annual report is sort of like tracking a stock market index, I guess. It doesn’t reveal nuances, but it’s still a useful indicator of the Big Picture.

So despite cutting back on the areas that are really important to me — books and comics — my spending increased. And most of that increase came from dining out.

How did you do on your spending goals last year? Are there areas where you wish you spent less? If so, what strategies do you use to keep yourself in check?

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There are 436 comments to "Drafting a plan for discretionary spending".

  1. cribcage says 07 January 2007 at 11:41

    Batman and Superman won’t pay for retirement.

    True enough – but the flip side, as you’ve said, is that tomorrow is promised to no one; and thus the real challenge isn’t just to build a secure, sufficient retirement fund (which, taken alone, would be easy), but instead to strike a balance between providing for tomorrow while enjoying today.

    I know how you feel, re: comics. I used to maintain a dozen subscriptions through my local store, plus whatever loose books I’d find when I visited monthly; and by the time I pulled out my wallet, I’d be carrying a pile of books that cost near $100. What’s embarrassing is that I wouldn’t even read many of them. I wanted to, and I intended to – but it just wasn’t a priority, so I ended up with expensive boxes of unread comics.

    Today, I limit myself to trade paperbacks. It’s a compromise that works for me: less money, less to read, but I still get to enjoy whatever Batman storylines that DC sees fit to compile. To be honest, I think about quitting – it’s still expensive, and I’m kinda ashamed (especially as a writer) to admit how well I know the Batman canon despite not having read Les Miserables – and mostly, it’s a violation of what I consider to be the best advice I’ve ever read: “Seek elevating recreation.” But I like ’em, so for the time being I’ll keep reading under the logic that good mental health requires indulging the occasional harmless, simple-minded vice.

  2. Tim says 07 January 2007 at 12:10

    So JD, what tool do you use to keep track of your finances and how does it treat you?

  3. J.D. says 07 January 2007 at 12:16

    @Stephen
    I, too, am a trade-paperback purchaser. When I say that I’m buying comics, I actually bought maybe two real comic books last year. The rest were compilations: hardbound, paperbound, etc. I am particularly fond of comic strips, and buy these collections when I can find them cheap. It’s all comics, though!

    @Tim
    I use Quicken for the Mac. Now that I have an Intel-based machine, I’m going to dig up my old copy of Quicken for PC. This is one area in which the PC version is vastly superior to the Mac version. Both work fine, but the PC version is much, much nicer to use. I’ve also been playing with Wesabe now-and-then, and I like it, but there are features in Quicken that I like and can’t get there.

  4. Andi says 07 January 2007 at 12:17

    Music spending is a **HUGE** problem around here. My husband satisfies his cravings for an ever-changing rack of CDs by using LaLa.com and I satisfy my cravings by rifling through the music selection at archive.org. LaLa reduces some of our household clutter by ensuring that CDs that aren’t in rotation go out. You pay something like $1.75 for each CD you receive and you have to send one out for every one that you get.
    Archive.org has a large collection of live recordings from trade/tape friendly bands. Increasingly, the recordings are available in lossless format rather than MP3. All downloads are free and legal. In addition, they have a large collection of digitized 78rpm records that are now in public domain and there are also a lot of public domain books that have been converted to audio files for download. Like the live music archive, these 78rpm and audio book files are also free to download.
    With these resources, we’ve cut down dramatically on our media expenses, and on the clutter produced by our constant acquisition of new media.

  5. MissPinkKate says 07 January 2007 at 12:24

    $3,000 on comic books but you didn’t fully fund your IRA?!?!? Ugh, that hurts.

  6. J.D. says 07 January 2007 at 12:41

    Tell me about it. I still have a few months to rectify the situation, of course, and I plan to do it. But it’s numbers like this that make a fellow sit up and say, “If I’m so smart, how come I’m so stupid?” 🙂

  7. goldbug says 07 January 2007 at 13:40

    To decrease your book spending, you might consider joining paperbackswap or bookmooch. You won’t be able to get all the books you want there, but you’ll be able to get some of them.

  8. MillionDollarJourney.com says 07 January 2007 at 13:54

    Excellent post. It really puts things in perspective when you look at your expenses on a yearly basis.

    I use MS Money and have been for the past couple of years. Have you ever tried MS Money? If so, how would you compare it to Quicken?

    FT
    http://www.MillionDollarJourney.com

  9. Hermgirl says 07 January 2007 at 17:07

    I just wanted to say that I so know what you mean about comic books. They’re insidious: You get hooked into a story line, and you feel like you have to follow every thread and side-plot that that story line takes.

    Marvel was really good at this with the X-Men, I had a huge X-Men jones. They would make references to something and then actually put an apostrophy, saying “*To understand what Gambit is saying, check out X-Force 7” or something like that. When the story lines got too convoluted that it seemed like even the writers couldn’t follow what they were doing, exept to reccommend more comics, I jumped off–somewhere around the Phalanx Covenant, if anyone remembers that X-Men title.

    I then transferred this addiction, unfortunately, to regular books. It was pretty bad for awhile, because I worked at bookstores for about five years. I would wind up spending about half my paycheck there–thankfully, I didn’t have rent to pay.

    I still love books, but the way I’m dealing with it now is to buy things at the thrift store or used bookstore. I’m getting to the point where I refuse to pay full price for the things, because I see how I can either get something at the Library, or find it for two thirds of the price at the most (including shipping) if I do a little savvy online shopping.

    Although I have hooked up with some of my old bookstore friends, and am thinking about getting a job with one of them at a big chain bookstore, probably around March. I think I can restrain myself, I’ve gone in and out of there without the urge to buy, and I’m getting spoiled with the used book pricing I’ve learned to shop for.

  10. RJ says 07 January 2007 at 17:12

    It looks like you have a lot to celebrate, J.D. Just how much of your income do you set aside for retirement, savings, and debt reduction every year? If it’s a large percentage, perhaps the expenses on comics and dining out aren’t so bad, after all. You can sock away up to 15 or 20% of your income–or more–but that means you still have money to blow for things that suit you. Some people spend a lot on travel, others spend on golf, others on clothes, etc. Ya gotta have some fun while you’re alive, y’know!

    Do you keep all of your comic books? Or do you resell them? Perhaps reselling them can bring down some of the cost. (Just don’t resell a future collectible!) Or perhaps you could donate some of the comic books to a local library, then they become a charitable contribution, and maybe some other people will benefit…..?

  11. sfmoneymusings says 07 January 2007 at 17:13

    Wow, I can’t believe you spent so much on books! I bought one writing book last month at full price but I justified it because the author offered to sign my copy after I emailed him and asked.

    What about clothing expenses? I’m assuming you don’t buy clothes often?

    Thanks for sharing such specific numbers and thoughts. It doesn’t make me feel so guilty when I enjoy the things I buy.

    I’ve never tried that restaurant but I love Nikolas? or Nikolai’s in the East Burnside area of Portland. Their coffee is amazing.

  12. Don says 07 January 2007 at 17:15

    Hmm…I do recall you getting a Wii…did you include that in entertainment? Just trying to keep you honest 😉

  13. Peg says 07 January 2007 at 17:23

    “Batman and Superman won’t pay for retirement.”

    I do actually know someone who came up with the down payment for his house by selling his comic book collection.

  14. Bobby says 07 January 2007 at 18:46

    “…Batman and Superman won’t pay for retirement.”

    Like Peg said, I wouldn’t be too sure. It depends on which comics you are buying. There are some on ebay in excess of $1K each.

    http://search.ebay.com/superman_Comics_W0QQcatrefZC6QQfromZR10QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ3QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQsacatZ63QQsbrsrtZl

    http://collectibles.search.ebay.com/batman_Comics_W0QQcatrefZC6QQfromZR10QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ3QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQsacatZ63QQsbrsrtZlQQssPageNameZWLRS

  15. Andy says 07 January 2007 at 19:11

    The sin category is awesome!

  16. George Burke says 07 January 2007 at 21:06

    The book savings category is HUGE. The average book consumer buying 3 new books per month pays close to $60 every month. Maybe buying these books isn’t necessary. BookSwim.com, http://www.bookswim.com, is a library book club service that allows book rentals, Netflix-style.

  17. Ed says 07 January 2007 at 21:37

    I have some comics to sell if you are interested 😉
    SpiderMan/Mary Jane wedding
    Groo #1 ?!?

    I have a semi decent comic collection, but I have them all in plastic bags (after reading them of course). I had considered them an “investment” but that is only if there is someone else out there to purchase them from me.

    As with selling anyting there needs to be soneone willing to buy at the price you want.

    So is there a debt repayment category or are you out of debt (excluding mortgage)?

  18. Dusitn says 07 January 2007 at 21:44

    Hey J.D.

    I like bestwebbuys.com/books for finding cheaper books. This site will search all the major online bookstores and ranks them for you (with shipping). I got through college this way and never paid more than $150 per term for books. You can save > 50% sometimes. Try it out.

    Dustin

  19. William Mize says 08 January 2007 at 00:57

    I love this post, J.D. It’s nice to see that no one is perfect in these categories.
    A few suggestions if I may, based on my own experience/shortcomings.
    – Books – I sell a lot on amazon.com. Last month, in three days, I sold close to $300 worth of used books on amazon. After amazon takes their cut, I will get about $200. Think about culling your herd and getting a positive cash flow coming back into your house. Also, my new book mantra is “Books are not trophies.”
    – Comics – I’m now down to ONE TITLE. “Ultimate X-Men”. In trade paperback. Try subtracting one title per month, see what happens. Again, those titles you drop, see about selling them on amazon/eBay. “Comics are not trophies> 🙂

    Best of luck!

    – Bill

  20. Jared Rice says 08 January 2007 at 05:53

    I would be careful thinking that your Food budget will drop with the commencement of a wellness program. Although you may cut out some of the dining out (and that is expensive), there is a reason that people in this country are overweight – food that is good for you is expensive. Fruits, veggies, and good grains, always cost way more than the cheap stuff you can buy to fill your stomach (frozen pizzas, TV dinners, etc.).

    You can definitely save some money by cutting the AMOUNT you are eating (and any good wellness program should do this, at least to an extent), but I would make the goal to break even, not to save over all. Otherwise you jeopardize the success of your wellness program, just to put a few more dollars in your IRA.

    Expect being well (in every sense of the word) to cost you money – from food, to gym equipment or memberships, and personal trainers, and even the emotional wellness expenses like comic books. Don’t short-change your wellness and weight loss goals, because your health is worth more than money.

  21. Justin says 08 January 2007 at 06:30

    I’m glad to see that I’m not the only one with a comic addiction. At the end of 2005, when I first started paying attention to my personal finances, I realized that throughout the year I had spent about $3500 on comics. It didn’t seem like that much until I realized that $3500 was over 10% of my income. Needless to say, in 2006, I severely cut back on my comic spending. This year I held it back to about $1500.

    A lot of that savings came from realizing that my local library carries a lot of new trade paperbacks comic collections. With a branch of the library only about a mile from my home, I was easily able to start saving money.

  22. English Major says 08 January 2007 at 07:24

    Mmm, Paley’s Place. If you haven’t already (I bet you have), you should stop in at Wildwood sometime–it’s right across the street.

    Do you really get a chance to read $50 worth of books a month if you’re also reading comic books and watching $50 worth of Netflix DVDs and iTunes downloads? I’d love to see some sort of estimate on the cost per hour, if only to see how many hours you estimate you’re spending this way. It sounds like you have more fun than I do!

    It seems to me that here is a good place to adopt “pay yourself first.” The money’s there–if you’re not fully funding your IRA, that’s a bit of a problem. What I’d do is fully fund my IRA and then see what’s left over, so, make it a goal to cut out enough of this discretionary spending that you can free up enough cash to make up the difference between what you’re currently contributing and the limit. I’d propel my progress toward that goal by automating maximum-level monthly contributions to my IRA and then trying to work out the entertainment expenses within what’s left.

    Really, I just wanted to say that I think this was a great post, one that humanized your blogging persona both my admitting a financial weakness and by giving your readership a sense of what you like. This post really drives home the fact that ultimately our finances are driven by our personalities and behaviors.

  23. brad says 08 January 2007 at 08:14

    I used buy a lot of books, and I kept the ones I really liked because I figured I’d read them again sometime. But as the years rolled by it became clear that I’d never get around to re-reading them. Same goes for DVDs: I own 23 DVDs and have never watched any of them more than three times. What a waste! When I emigrated to Canada four years ago I had to prepare an inventory of everything I owned and its value in Canadian dollars. That motivated me to cut my book collection in half, and that was so painless that I’ve cut it in half again over the past few years. I now keep only reference books, a few books of poetry, two shelves of books that I use for my work, and a handful of old favorites that I can’t bring myself to part with. I rarely buy books anymore; I either use the library or get my siblings to buy them for me for Christmas (we all share our Amazon wishlists).

  24. Giania says 08 January 2007 at 09:21

    Aye! take heed to the other commenters here and don’t worry too much about your comics. If you take good care of them, some of them could end up being an investment of sorts.

    Especially if collect perennially popular series. Some of the comics you have may already be worth more than you paid for them, because of the limited release nature of comics.

    So what you might want to consider is purging your comics archive once in a while. Sell off some of the ones that might be kind of rare, but something you aren’t likely to read and read again, or something you don’t think will really “appreciate” by comic collection standards.

    Don’t just leave it as an addiction, make it a full-fledged hobby! If you do it right, who knows? It might end up paying for itself. 🙂

  25. Roger says 08 January 2007 at 14:28

    JD, it’s none of my business, but does your net worth include real property or just liquid assets? If the former I’m doing OK, if the latter, well, not so hot.

  26. J.D. says 08 January 2007 at 14:37

    Roger, that’s a good question, and one I hope to delve into in the future. Without going into the whys and wherefors:

    My net worth includes real property and associated debt. It doesn’t include any of my wife’s finances, however, or any of the assets/liabilities that she tracks. (Remember: we keeps separate finances.) Because I track the house and the mortgage, it’s in this number. I figure as long as I’m staying consistent with which numbers I’m using, I’m doing okay.

    At some point, in preparation for a future entry, I’ll actually sit down and computer our household net worth, which will be much higher, I think.

  27. dimes says 08 January 2007 at 17:28

    Those must be some great comic books! Maybe there’s a Comicreaders Anonymous?
    Aside from that, don’t feel too bad.

  28. Covert7 says 09 January 2007 at 08:52

    Oh wow, a fellow (young!) pipe smoker! How very rare these days! I know it’s not really related to finances, but do you have a local tobacconist that you have access to or do you get your leaf from the Internet?

    When I saw that, I just smiled and thought “Yeah, his personality does seem like a pipe smokers.” 🙂 Take it easy JD and may you enjoy at least a couple of good smokes this winter season!

  29. matildaben says 09 January 2007 at 12:35

    You’re lucky to spend such a small amount on your pets. When my late cats were alive, I had to lay out a few hundred dollars every 3 months for testing and treatment for a chronic condition in an elderly cat, and both of my current, younger cats have had to have emergency surgeries to the tune of about $3000 each.

  30. Kurt says 09 January 2007 at 20:23

    My wife and I signed up for paperbackswap.com in December. It has been great so far, I’ve sent out 6, and requested 7, exchanging books I didn’t want for ones that I do. My wife has sent out a bunch and picked up 6 books that were on her Amazon wishlist for a cost that works out to around $2/book.

  31. Greg Williams says 22 January 2008 at 10:50

    Gino’s is quite good. Eating out was probably one of our biggest downfalls last year. My wife and I love to eat at China Delight and Queen of Sheba. Not to mention half a dozen other places. My personal downfall was board games. Funny that I keep stumbling onto blogs that turn out to be written by Portland residents. How odd.

    Greg

  32. Jim_W says 22 January 2008 at 10:51

    The most useful point (to me) in Rich Dad, Poor Dad was the concept of categorizing things as assets or liabilities by his definition. Basically if the thing brings value or drains you.

    I place books under education in my budget and don’t think a grand in books is bad at all and are categorized as assets. Your Sin category could be categorized as a liability if a guest gets a DUI, that comes back on you, or from the health factor point of view. But you could argue it’s an asset too socially, networking, etc.

    Good job on not blowing money in 2007. Are you going to track what your debt cost you in ’07 and ’08? If your expenses go up, but your interest expenses go down from reducing debt you might find tracking it satisfying.

  33. Stephanie says 22 January 2008 at 10:52

    Thanks so much for being brave enough to share that kind of information with us. I think it takes a lot of courage: You’re not just speaking in vague terms about “I decreased spending in this area of my life last year”, you’re giving us actual numbers! It’s hard to do, but I think such habits will increase accountability. I think a lot of people would benefit from having a partner to divulge EXACTLY (down to the penny) how much they spend on certain areas.

  34. Ernesto says 22 January 2008 at 10:54

    You should start blogging about comics; then you could shift that expense into the business column.

  35. Andy Didyk says 22 January 2008 at 11:05

    I’ve been lurking on the site for several years now, and I just wanted to say thanks for sharing this information. My wife and I are doing our budgets for this year, and it’s always good to hear about someone else’s success.

  36. RacerX says 22 January 2008 at 11:11

    One of the best comments that you have said is that “there’s nothing inherently wrong with purchasing things that bring you joy. But problems come when you finance these purchases with debt.”

    You just need to make sure your needs are taken care of before you go on to wants, then desires!

    Great post!

  37. Mrs. Micah says 22 January 2008 at 11:27

    Your drop in comic book spending is particularly admirable, congratulations. Ernesto’s idea is kind of cool unless you think it’d lead to more spending problems. But you do so well with your blogs anyway that maybe when you cut back from your full-time job you might find time for a comic one.

  38. Megan says 22 January 2008 at 11:36

    JD,

    Have you ever looked into using a website like Paperback Swap to obtain new, used books for just the cost of shipping? This has helped me to greatly reduce my spending on books.

    And I love that you have a category called Sin, I got a good laugh from that! 🙂

  39. Mikell says 22 January 2008 at 11:37

    Congrats on bringing down the spending. The Decemberists’ show should be pretty awesome… I’m jealous!

  40. Dividends4Life says 22 January 2008 at 11:41

    It’s impressive you tracked all that. The closest I come to something I track is “Entertainment” (which includes eating out). It went from $2,016 in 2006 to $3,870 in 2007.

    Best Wishes,
    D4L

  41. Heidi says 22 January 2008 at 11:46

    I did this exercise fot the first time last year and was astounded at how much my fiance and I spend to feed a family of two ($10k – but that includes alcohol and food for dinner parties for friends).

    This year I’m starting an ‘entertaining at home’ category so I can see exactly how much we spend on the get-togethers we host.

    You did a great job keeping your pet care costs in the ‘reasonable’ category. I only buy my dog toys, my partner takes care of the vet bills and kennel expenses – I bet we easily spent $1200 combined caring for that mutt. But I wouldn’t trade her for the world.

  42. Jordan says 22 January 2008 at 11:56

    I’ve seen the Decemberists in concert several times, the first few times I was lucky enough to see them for $9, $12 and $15, the next time they came to town (Montreal, Canada) it was more along the lines of $30. I sadly missed that show. Their increase in popularity is good for them, but bad for my wallet.

  43. KC says 22 January 2008 at 12:07

    I hate to think what I spend on my 80lb. Golden Retriever. He’s 11 so the vet bills are going up with his age. At his size he’s not cheap to feed. But we don’t spoil him much with toys or treats so those costs are low. But the benefits are something you can’t measure – my blood pressure actually dropped 8 points on average after we got him about 6 years ago. He has brought my husband and I closer because we walk him together and talk about our day. We’re exercising and laughing so much more now that we have this goofy creature in our life. No matter how bad my day is I know I can come home and have a living creature be overjoyed to see me. There isn’t enough money in the world that can buy that.

  44. Betsy Teutsch says 22 January 2008 at 12:12

    Do you buy your books used? I love http://www.fetchbook.info where you can compare prices and find the lowest price.
    Also – since your blog has wide readership, you should be able to finagle reviewers copies. My husband is an academic and you wouldn’t believe what a boondoggle it is for getting books, most of which we donate to their library anyway.
    ANd… you can resell the books. A lot of them, I’m sure you’ve found out, are not very useful.

  45. J.D. says 22 January 2008 at 12:12

    Re-reading this entry, I see that there’s a little bit of ambiguity. I say that my spending last year was half of what it was in 2006, yet the numbers at the end of the article don’t reflect that. What I mean to say is that my overall spending was sliced in half. Discretionary spending is just a part of that.

    Re: The Decemberists. This will be the third time I’ve seen them live. Should be fun! 🙂

  46. Faculties says 22 January 2008 at 12:22

    I’m a little bit boggled by your numbers still. $702 on books — that’s $7000 over the course of ten years. If you have to own them, have you tried buying them on Half.com? I was shocked to find I really could buy anything I wanted at half price or less — sometimes 75 cents. Of course, the library is free even for personal finance books. And if they don’t have them, interlibrary loan is free too.

  47. Christine says 22 January 2008 at 12:27

    J.D.
    Though I don’t have a problem with debt, I enjoy reading your column as it helps keep me focused on using my money wisely.

    I do have a question about this analysis. When I see these real world examples I often wonder if the amounts are for a household, a couple, or an individual – who may be part of a household or couple. In your example some of the totals look like they are couple expenses (food and maybe sin)and some look like they are particular to you as an individual(comic books), and some I’m unclear on (books for example). Does your wife have a category that is specific to her?

    It’s not such a problem for this example but when people talk about retirement savings, retirement timing etc. it gets very muddled if you can’t sort the couple vs. individual stuff out. Especially if the couple are not the same age. In much personal finance writing this isn’t clear and its difficult to see how the ideas apply to them as a unit.

    Anyway thanks for the great writing and interesting blog.

  48. Sam says 22 January 2008 at 12:30

    I was working on this over the weekend as well and posted my numbers in the GRS personal finance forum under annual expenses.

    I have some trouble figuring out what is discretionary and what is not. Books, eating out, gifts are all, charity, are, to me, discretionary. But what about dry cleaning, clothes, and vet bills for the dog? I think a $1000 dress is discretinary spending within the clothing category but are clothes, in general, discretionary?

    I guess my question is as follows: are all spending choices beyond the very basics of food, shelter, clothing, insurance, transportation discretionary?

  49. Amy says 22 January 2008 at 12:32

    Off topic, but The Decemberists are AWESOME live! I got to see them perform with the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra, and it was seriously one of the best concerts I’ve ever been to.

  50. Jordan says 22 January 2008 at 12:42

    I’ve been chronicling my spending on a “private” blog since December, I’m having a hard time breaking it down so much, I buy beer when I buy groceries often, so my beer spending often gets lumped into my grocery spending. Do you go through all of your receipts individually? and Do you use any sort of computer program/website to help you keep track?

  51. J.D. says 22 January 2008 at 12:45

    @ Christine
    GREAT question. In this case, all of these totals are just for the money I spent. Kris never pays for anything in the sin category, which is a point of mild contention. We split the grocery bill 50/50, so whatever I’ve spent on groceries, she’s also spent that much. I generally pay for meals out, though not always. (To be fair, Kris has her own set of things that she pays for and I do not: gardening supplies and household stuff come to mind.)

    I agree that when people talk about retirement savings and net worths, etc., I never know if this is a household number or an individual number. I read The Millionaire Next Door with this question on my mind the entire time. Great question.

    @Sam
    I think “discretionary” is largely subjective. In my numbers here, groceries are mostly non-discretionary, but I’ve included them. (Some groceries are discretionary, however.) Dining out, however, always is. I think that each person needs to decide how they’re going to track this sort of thing and just be consistent. The important thing is constancy!

  52. J.D. says 22 January 2008 at 12:46

    @Jordan
    I split out certain things such as alcohol. If it’s something that I know I want to track, I make sure to split the transaction in Quicken.

  53. brad says 22 January 2008 at 12:50

    Great post. I’m a bit of a video game spender myself, but I’ve been able to really keep the expenses down by quickly selling back any games I’m not currently playing.

    When you see a new game you want, but it right when it comes out, play it like crazy, then go on eBay/Craigslist/GameRush and sell/trade it in right away. Games usually don’t lose much value in the first month or 2, so you’ll end up paying about $10-20 per game, which can be a big savings.

    If you’re still playing the game after that time, keep it, but just as you’ve said with movies/CDs/etc, it’s not really worth anything sitting on the shelf (and you can always rent it later if you get an urge – or rebuy it at a lower price)

  54. moneymonk says 22 January 2008 at 13:01

    there’s nothing inherently wrong with purchasing things that bring you joy…I agree

    You should rename Sin category to Vice

  55. wthell says 22 January 2008 at 13:19

    Holy Cow!

    You spend SO much money I had to finally leave a comment.

    I will not be reading your blog anymore unfortunately…

    You spent more money on eating out per month then I spend on rent!!!

    I also should note that my discretionary spending is around $1200 per year, and I have NO debt whatsoever… no wonder you still have debt!

    Im guessing you are American, for you spend the entire minimum wage yearly income on ‘entertainment’

    UNREAL!!!

  56. Kiran says 22 January 2008 at 13:33

    I have kept a ‘sin’ category for smokes (I smoke about a pack a month: social smoking, reaction to upsetting events, etc.)

    This year I have seperated ‘booze’ from groceries and and eating out. I want to know just how much I spend on beer and drinks. I think I spend 10 bucks on a couple of drinks out with the guys every two weeks, and 15 more on a few six packs for the apartment each month. But I really have no clue, so now I’m measuring such things.

    I’m really glad someone else has a sin category!!

  57. Tammy says 22 January 2008 at 13:39

    Tracking my expenses is something I’ve dabbled in from time to time. I’m single now (soon to be divorced), so the only person I have to make accountable to the spending and numbers is myself. I started tracking my spending the beginning of January and I’m still going strong.

    I’ve said to some I’ve put myself on a financial diet. I’m working towards lowering the amount I spend, increasing the little bit I can invest, and knocking off some debt. I’m in the process of renovating my house to be able to hopefully sell it and move, so that is creating some outlay of cash, but I’m confident the return will be found in the increase in the value of my home.

    Thank you so much for posting your totals and categories. The categories you’ve listed will help me in streamlining my own.

  58. FMF says 22 January 2008 at 13:46

    A cat guy who loves comic books. Hmmmm.

  59. Sandy says 22 January 2008 at 14:02

    Not only do you have your spending under control, by not incurring debt or dipping into your emergency fund, etc., but you’re focusing on spending on your values, of what’s important to you, rather than random, meaningless things, and so that’s great! And with those conditions met, I agree with you that we should indulge our passions and interests. I just booked a 2 week flight to HI from CA and plan to book another one for March and a third in May. I’ve never booked 3 flights in one day. And why not? It’s to visit my daughter and grandchildren and like you, I’m not incurring any debt doing so. And about those cats — the guy who comes over to take care of my one cat while I travel is your age and has 6 cats of his own — so there’s no reason why you shouldn’t get 2 more!

  60. kazari says 22 January 2008 at 14:02

    Interesting:
    I can’t honestly tell you what our discretionary spending is spent on – but I CAN tell you how much. We each get $200 a pay for our “play money”. that covers dance classes, dinners out, books and sport for me – coffee, books and a heap of sport for Ryan.

  61. J.D. says 22 January 2008 at 14:12

    @wthell

    These are annual figures, not monthly figures. My entertainment spending is not equal to minimum wage income.

    I admit that I still spend too much, but I’m working on it. I’m making progress. I don’t think I spend obscene amounts of money, though. Perhaps I’m wrong…

  62. Aleks says 22 January 2008 at 14:18

    “The most useful point (to me) in Rich Dad, Poor Dad was the concept of categorizing things as assets or liabilities by his definition. Basically if the thing brings value or drains you.

    I still kinda like that too, but I wish I’d never read the book because I periodically catch myself remembering something from the book and then I’ll have to remind myself that he’s a complete charlatan and it’s likely that the whole thing is made up.

  63. Nathan says 22 January 2008 at 14:31

    J.D.

    I am sorry to see such a negative comment from @wthell. Clearly this person has a hard time understanding the well written blog entries. How anyone can think the amounts you were speaking of were monthly I will never know. As for the last parting shot about being American and your spending well that was uncalled for. I think this proves that we have plenty of jerks outside the USA. Yes that was cheap shot directed at you (wthell) so leave your unfounded anti American comments at home.

    Please note I am not a right wing defender of the USA. I just dont care for unfounded comments about anyone.

  64. jtimberman says 22 January 2008 at 14:58

    I think wthell needs to reread the amounts.

    JD said he spent $2051 in 2007 on dining out. Thats ~$170 per month, or one date per week. I think many married couples would LOVE to be able to go out on a date together every week.

    On the other hand, I think I’m afraid to know where someone is paying only $170/month in rent.

  65. Baker says 22 January 2008 at 15:49

    I’m glad theres actually another male that likes cats. I love my fat 28 pound black cat almost as much as I love my daughter 😉

  66. wthell says 22 January 2008 at 16:00

    $7,941.02 spent on discretionary costs is insane!

    THAT total (yearly obviously) is crazy to spend if you are on a budget!

    Thats $662.00 per MONTH.

    That is well over the $350 per month I spend on an apartement rental per month.

    My food costs are $130

    Cell phone is $43

    Entertainment is about $60

    Insurance is $74

    My TOTAL monthly expenses is less then your fun spending, and I make $140,000 per year after taxes.

    Thats why I am rich, and you are poor.

  67. wthell says 22 January 2008 at 16:03

    Also, Im assuming people read your blog who got themselves into trouble by over spending or not realising the value of money, thats why everyone thinks that I thought your bills were monthly not yearly… as I explain above, you are out of your mind to spend that much money when you have any debt… and mortgage is a HUGE DEBT.

    Geez, you guys really think that almost 700 per MONTH is a good number to be at for fun spending???

    Go read http://www.thesimpledollar.com

    At least he tries to cut his bills everymonth and understands the value of a dollar.

  68. J.D. says 22 January 2008 at 16:12

    @wthell

    I read The Simple Dollar every day. It’s a great site.

    Everyone thinks that you mistook my yearly totals for monthly because you wrote “You spent more money on eating out per month then I spend on rent!!!” This isn’t correct, so we assume you made some sort of error.

    Also: nobody would ever consider me poor. I certainly don’t.

  69. Darrell says 22 January 2008 at 16:28

    WOW, very detailed. That is exactly what my wife and I have been attempting to get to. Most of your spending looks very in line with what is considered ‘normal’, but I agree with some of the other posters, have you tried to find a book swap service? Slightly used books versus new are night and day.

  70. db says 22 January 2008 at 16:30

    wthell:

    a) Where do you live?

    b) Do you actually have friends or do anything outside of working? At $60, you sure aren’t dating.

    c) Who gave you the rules as to what spending levels deserve moral outrage?

  71. Anne says 22 January 2008 at 17:01

    @wthell: Is there a reason you are limiting your spending to such a low amount relative to your income? I’d be curious to see your personal financial goals and what you intend to do with all the money you’re amassing.

  72. Steven says 22 January 2008 at 17:09

    Hmm… Mentioned paperback and dvd swap but do not see the comment.

    Check those out for good deals.

  73. Ron@TheWisdomJournal says 22 January 2008 at 17:27

    Since you started Get Fit Slowly, could you consider food a business expense, research or something? 🙂

  74. Lorraine says 22 January 2008 at 18:05

    Wow @ wthell

    You are certainly living on the smell of an oily rag – good on you for curbing your expenses. I am thinking you are single? It is much easier to be disciplined and accept a lot less in life when you only have yourself to look after. Renting is also considered by some schools of thought to be a waste of money whereas paying off a mortgage is creating a future investment….

    We are all on different paths to the same destination – looking after our money and our future – but also LIVING in the present moment I would hope! Methinks I would rather be living J.D.’s joyful but careful existence….

    J.D. – you are my first stop every morning – I love your honesty, your thoughtfulness and your largesse of spirit. Thankyou for sharing your progress – what a long way you have come, jolly well good on YOU.

    Lorraine

  75. Jeff says 22 January 2008 at 18:34

    @wthell:

    I am amazed at the restraint of my fellow commenters.

    Assuming you are not just a troll, I think the difference between yourself and the rest of us here at GRS (including JD) is that we are trying to pay down debt and build wealth while actually living, and you on the other hand are following some sort of “deferred life plan” (to use Tim Ferris’s phrase). My guess is that you spend so much time at your job that you don’t have any time or energy for anything else — but you don’t plan on doing that forever. At some point you’ll cut back your hours and spring for a BMW and a house just off the fairway.

    Some of us prefer a more balanced approach — saving a lot for tomorrow while still living today. Given that there are no guarantees in life and that you can’t take it with you when you die, I think it’s the most sensible approach.

  76. Kris says 22 January 2008 at 18:46

    While I’m not sure what brought on the general tone of the comment, wthell does bring up a valid point. From a global perspective, Jd & I are rich. We can pay off our debt simply by focusing our spending in a smarter way and giving up some (but obviously not all) luxuries– things we had come to believe were necessities before we shifted focus. We are incredibly lucky. That said, we want to enjoy the present as well as prepare for our future. Do we occasionally spend more than we should? Definitely. Are we improving? Definitely.

  77. vh says 22 January 2008 at 19:30

    [chortle!] Did you realize researchers have discovered cats harbor and spread a parasite that causes some prey animals to lose their fear of cats, thereby making them…well, easy prey?

    This has the led to the theory that Cat Ladies (and Cat Gentlemen) are infected by the parasite, explaining their infatuation with puddy tats.

    Fifty cents a day for four cats is not bad! Especially if you’re factoring in the vet bills. The other day at my blog I calculated that I’ve spent something over $18,000 on my twelve-year-old German shepherd, all told.

    She did chase off a prowler once, but since I don’t own 18 grand worth worth of stealable goods, it’s probably not an even deal.

  78. Baker says 22 January 2008 at 19:33

    Yes from a global point you do spend a lot of money. We also live in country were electricity and indoor plumbing are considered basic needs. If we lived in shacks with dirt floors I’m sure your spending would be different.

    I can’t even think of a reply to wthell. what you are saying is so asinine I don’t even know where to start. I hope that huge bank account your amassing is a real comfort to you when you realize how much of your life you missed living.

  79. kazari says 22 January 2008 at 20:25

    Why are people fixating on dollar values here? Surely it’s all about the proportion of your income?
    Anita Bell (who recommends everybody gets a Sanity Allowance – discretionary income for you to spend as you wish), believes your Sanity allowance should be 5-10% of your income. And it should be a higher percentage, the LESS you earn.
    It’s going to be different for everyone.
    JD maybe spends a lot, maybe doesn’t – the point is that he decided he wanted to spend less, and he HAS!

    I’m enjoying this discussion a lot : )

  80. J.D. says 22 January 2008 at 20:37

    @Kazari
    I’ve never heard of a “sanity allowance” before. I like the concept.

    My discretionary spending used to make up 30% (or more of my income). That was crazy. Now it’s down in that 5-10% range…

  81. Jon G says 22 January 2008 at 21:41

    I can see wthnell’s point to some extent. I’d rather forgo the thousands of dollars worth of comic books and unnecessary book purchases and have that money invested or saved. I thought the point of the blog was to get rich, but most of the people here seem to want to live for today and not make any sacrifices.

  82. Laura E. says 22 January 2008 at 22:03

    I’d like to add my voice to thanks and congratulations.

    As for comic books, two friends and I “partner” up— each of us buys a title we are following, and we pass them around. maybe the morals of this are questionable, but we get to donate directly to the artists— we’ve been able to commission artwork with our savings!— and to the causes the artists and publishers support. We’ve also generated considerable buzz for them, because we discuss the titles on a bulletin board we share.

    Hm… we should do potlucks…

  83. Andrea >> Find a consultant says 22 January 2008 at 22:43

    Wow. Now I know what to spend my money on if I ever stop living in Vancouver (home of the $1M starter home).

  84. Early Retirement Extreme says 22 January 2008 at 22:44

    I’m amazed at how accurate some of you guys track your expenses. What do you use and does it help to track it that detailed?

    I looked into my account statements and found the following for the period between Oct 2006 and Oct 2007.

    Total spending on “personal wants”: $4349

    This includes a $1499 alu-carbon bike which I have estimated saving about $600 on gas and wear and tear on the car because I use it to commute. (Of course that’s a cash flow I don’t see because it is mainly an accrued cash flow).

    There is $950 on a certification and about $250-300 on textbooks to go with other continuing education. I put this under entertainment since it is not strictly needed and because it would be hard to associate it with a future cash flow, but you never know.

    This leaves about $1600. I know that about $800 of that went to a full set of hockey gear since I just started playing in an outdoor league. Add about $300 in playing fees and we get a seriously expensive hobby. The rest of the money went to two very nice tailor fitted suits.

    It’s a good thing that most of these were one time expenses associated with start up costs from moving to a new place.

  85. Camilla says 23 January 2008 at 01:17

    Great to see how your numbers look – i’ve never done this before but since i now keep a record of everything i spend, i’m looking forward to tallying everything up this year. The idea of working it all out and being successful by being sensible with my money is even making me look forward to my upcoming house-move, which will mean higher rent and higher food costs! 😛

  86. db says 23 January 2008 at 03:40

    “I thought the point of the blog was to get rich, but most of the people here seem to want to live for today and not make any sacrifices.”

    The point of this blog is to get rich SLOWLY. Meaning — sanely, in a manner that doesn’t defy living in the present. It also reminds us that getting RICH isn’t simply a matter of MONEY, rich is more than a bank balance.

    Look — JD just paid off all his debt except for his mortgage. He did it by putting a priority on paying off the debt. Now, it’s true, he wasn’t doing it with Dave Ramsey-style gazelle intensity looking at his discretionary spending, but what JD isn’t telling us is how much income went towards debt repayment. I suspect if you compared the numbers side by side, his debt repayment would far exceed his discretionary spending.

    Now — personally I’d like to think my numbers came in lower than JD’s. Realistically, I know they wouldn’t. I have learned after a couple of years of attempting to practice Dave Ramsey-style gazelle intensity that I have a personal limit to how much I can forgo. That doesn’t equate to not making sacrifices — and JD also never said he wasn’t making sacrifices. In fact — THE POINT he was making was that he’d made sacrifices and lowered the money he was spending in these categories.

    I can go for a few months of really pouring on the debt repayment and denying myself a few simple pleasures, but the longer I go, the nastier a spending binge I end up having at some point. (NOTE: I’m not talking thousands of re-debting — its usually hundreds though. If I deny myself my short list of small “rewards”, I just reach a point where I can’t stop myself from spending indiscriminately in some store without reason. Usually it’s a bookstore and I walk out with a few hundred dollars of books I really could live without, and then I start spending it up at restaurants twice a day until I get a grip on myself.)

    So rather than do that, I allow myself a certain measure of “unnecessary” discretionary spending. A few times a week I go to a coffee shop (where I spend a whopping $1.77 on a cup of the house coffee, which I like better than the fancy drinks. The point is, it’s an outing.)

    I allow myself to eat out at lunch rather than taking a lunch — I don’t really care for brown-bag lunches so if I take my lunch 25% of the time and go out 75% of the time I consider that ok. I also go out to a restaurant twice on most weekends, usually for a less expensive lunch or breakfast.

    When a movie comes out that I want to see, I go see it (trust me, this is rare — I think most of the movies coming out lately are garbage).

    I go out for a splurgy high tea for my birthday (the ultimate in unnecessary spending is $30 for somebody to give you all the tea, cookies, and hors d’ouerves you can eat), a spa experience and a play. I’d LOVE to go to the symphony and theater more often — not to mention I’d go to the spa once a week if I could justify the expense — but I limit to once a year.

    And, YES — I still spend money in bookstores. I try to keep it at $60 or less each month. I know I could go to the library or do the used book thing — frankly neither of those options replace the joy of reading a crisp, clean new book. So I compromise. I use the library part of the time and I buy new books. I’ve never had the comic book bug, but I have a list of DVDs I want to own so periodically I buy one of those to build my private collection.

    I know there are other people in other countries who don’t have the discretionary spending power Americans have. Frankly, it doesn’t change that fact for them if *I* were to try to emulate their spending power. It doesn’t change their situation if I forego because I feel guilty on their behalf. That’s not the point of trying to be frugal.

    But enough ranting from me.

  87. Jeff says 23 January 2008 at 04:14

    @Jon G:

    We emphasized living for today only in contrast to wthell’s claims of moral superiority through self-denial. Living below your means is a mantra (and a way of life) in this community, but it’s important that people understand that LBYM does not have to mean living like a monk. I’m afraid that people will read posts like wthell’s and be discouraged by the standard that is being set. People aren’t dumb — when presented with an all-or-nothing choice between saving and actually living, they will choose the only rational choice, which is living.

  88. Debi says 23 January 2008 at 05:25

    I’m still working to determine our discretionary spending from last year, having suffered hardware failure just after the first of the year. It’s caused me to be just a little behind. I expect ours to be up this year in the entertainment category as there are now two of us attending Faires and Festivals as often as possible. Other categories, like food, will be down as we tend to stay home more during the week.

    Thanks, by the way, for sharing the URLs for the two band’s. I love finding new artists to listen to.

  89. Sam says 23 January 2008 at 06:35

    We track our expenses with Quicken. (somebody asked about that).

    While we are working towards a better and more detailed budget, I like the idea of looking at
    income – living expenses – saving/investing = discretionary spending.
    For example, if you earn $100,000 and $30,000 goes to living expenses (house, utilities, insurance, transport, groceries) could you put $50,000 into savings/investing/paying off debt and then the remainder, $20,000, goes to discretionary spending?
    Could you live on 1/2 of your income? Or if you are a 2 income family, can you live on 1 income and bank the 2nd income?

  90. Jennifer says 23 January 2008 at 09:42

    To all those people talking crap, living frugally means allocating your money and spending/not spending where YOU see fit. There are no set rules or magic formulas.

    You don’t HAVE to live with one car if you are able to have two. And, you don’t have to invest.

    J.D.’s out of debt. Enough said. The point is to inspire you to find your own way…so go do it and don’t point fingers.

  91. Nicole says 23 January 2008 at 11:05

    vh:
    I definitely caught that puddy tat parasite early on in life 🙂

    JD:
    Thanks for sharing your numbers with us. Sorry you have to deal with ridiculous personal attacks from nasty people.

    In the past couple of years, when I was starting my new career, a large proportion of my discretionary spending went towards clothes and shoes. I decided that my clothing/shoe budget for 2008 would be $0 and I would use what I saved to pay off my law school student loan early. This took a huge leap of faith for me because I love to buy clothes and shoes! I decided to be radical on this one category because I knew I did not really NEED more clothing. Now that I’ve made the decision, I am really excited about it. I know it will be hard for me to stick to my decision, but it will be huge victory if I can do it. Have you considered doing something like that with one of your discretionary categories?

  92. Christian says 23 January 2008 at 11:13

    this is great, man!

    also, the decemberists make me wet myself, they’re so good.

    I need to crunch some numbers and specifics, this post is great.

  93. adfecto says 23 January 2008 at 13:30

    First off, live your life as you see fit (so long as you are within your means). $10 on comic books would not be worthwhile to me but I’m sure $700 is worthwhile to J.D. I spend almost $1,000 a year for my HD satellite TV service and I think it is worth every penny. Because I strive to be frugal I will regularly look for competing offers that are less money for an equivalent product. I also spent around 5% of my gross income on meals and drinks at restaurants/bars last year and $1,250 every month for my house payment. That is nothing like wthell. He will probably get richer, faster than I ever could.

    Why should you still read my blog about money? Because I also invest over $1,000 a month and that money, if invested wisely, will make me a wealthy man one day. It is GET RICH SLOWLY and that is what J.D. and his readers and myself are all about. Lets lead a balanced life and have some fun. wthell obviously doesn’t get it; it’s his loss.

  94. Ruth says 23 January 2008 at 15:13

    Congratulations on getting out of debt, JD, and on lowering your spending.
    Generally I like this blog and the comments, but I am somewhat worried by the “whatever works for you is great” argument. Spending money almost always means making ethical choices, but I don’t hear much about them on this blog. Paying off debt I agree is #1–debt is slavery. Building emergency funds, #2, sure. But where does charity, buying green, etc., come in? I think it should come maybe after debt and emergency funds, but before discretionary spending. I have a similar question for ultra-frugal people like the angry commenter. I am ultra-frugal, too, and I do not feel that I am “not living” (and it is insulting for others to assume what the good life is for others), but if I were more ethical I would spend more to buy organic, fair trade, local, union-made, sustainable, etc. Not “treating” myself with luxuries.

    I do understand that people take one step at a time, and asking too much too soon makes people throw in the towel. So this isn’t a finger-wagging comment. I’m just sharing a discomfort I have with most personal finance blogs–the ethical component of how our spending effects others and the environment is usually an afterthought, if there at all.

  95. Lorraine says 23 January 2008 at 17:37

    For Ruth

    Ruth, you make some very good points there, and now I think about it – you are right – the green/ethical side of life is overlooked on a lot of the finance blogs. I have found the simple living/frugal type genre a lot better for the concerns you speak of.

    I am very guilty of just what you emphasise and have to be honest and say the need for my young family to make the most of our money does not extend to environmental concerns as yet. I have to say though that as a by-product of living frugally, we have almost halved our electricity expenses and I would say we are buying generic goods which have so much less packaging so are probably throwing away 1/5 of the rubbish we used to. In our march towards living frugally we have started composting, and are starting a garden. I buy my fruit and vegies at the local market more for price but again, I am buying mostly organic and supporting local growers almostly accidentally. By buying secondhand clothes/goods etc, we are saving money AND keeping things from being landfill. By shunning consumerism as much as we are able, we also send our small message every time we refuse to buy Barbie or Gucci or McDonalds. I guess what I’m trying to say is that by virtue of living more carefully and moving towards frugality, there is probably a bit shift towards those ehtical concerns as a by-product.

    And I have to say that comments such as yours make people like me sit up and think harder about my decisions. Thankyou Ruth.

    Lorraine (the Accidental Greenie!)

  96. Colin Joss says 23 January 2008 at 20:46

    J.D.,

    I looked on your spending. I need to remind you on one thing. I usually tend to increase my meal & entertainment costs whenever I am putting high pressure in lowering my overall spending while increasing income.

    Colin Joss
    East Lothian, Haddington
    United Kingdom

  97. money_me says 23 January 2008 at 22:38

    I thought I was obsessed about my detailed list but now I’m encouraged. I am planning to spend $30-40 a month on food this year. I am single, vegetarian,I eat no junk food, and I just realised I easily feel full but being with people who eat too much puts a toll on me because I constantly feel full (through eating to keep us with the Joneses). No more of that! This year, I have changes already being implemented. This is cool, thanks J.D.

  98. Debi says 24 January 2008 at 03:23

    I’m still working to determine our discretionary spending from last year, having suffered hardware failure just after the first of the year. It’s caused me to be just a little behind. I expect ours to be up this year in the entertainment category as there are now two of us attending Faires and Festivals as much as possible. Other categories, like food, will be down as we tend to stay home more during the week.

    Thanks, by the way, for sharing the URLs for the two band’s. I love finding new artists to listen to.

  99. Brad says 24 January 2008 at 14:57

    I’m a little late getting to the party on this one, hopefully you periodically read the comments.

    You mention that you bought some of your books with personal money when you should have (legitimately) used the business account. Expense the damn things and get your money back!

  100. Flaime says 25 January 2008 at 07:00

    Please note that there’s nothing inherently wrong with purchasing things that bring you joy.

    This is a point that many of the personal finance bloggers I’ve seen overlook far too often. In fact, I tend to detect a decidedly ascetic undertone, almost to the point of religion, in most of the personal finance blogs I have seen. It’s almost as if they hate happineess. Yeah, going into debt for pleasure isn’t terribly smart, but it’s worse to forego all pleasure. If one has no pleasure in one’s life, what’s the point in living?

  101. Ruth says 25 January 2008 at 11:16

    To Flaime and others,

    I agree that joy is a legitimate and good thing for people to pursue, and being miserable just to have money in the bank is overdoing it. Yet I also think that if we want to live in a better world than the one we currently inhabit, we need to think of other people’s joy as well, and to think of joy in a more long-term way. Some of the things I enjoy are bad for the environment. Some of them undermine workers rights. Some of them require the pain and death of other living creatures.

    I don’t think that being ascetic is necessarily a virtue. I just would like to see more understanding and action (in my own life too) that our money choices are more complicated than “save it” or “spend it on whatever brings you pleasure.”

    To Lorraine–It sounds like you are making great strides toward being both responsible and ethical with your money. I agree that often the frugal choice is also the ethical choice (like riding a scooter or a bike instead of a car when possible). But sometimes it isn’t. Local organic veggies are expensive where I live, and it’s hard for me to talk myself into buying them, although they would also be better for my health!

  102. Colin Joss says 25 January 2008 at 19:45

    Actually, there is a simple rule to use with Frugality.. Keep your cost as a floor low and your earning as your roof high..

    But we have to separate this from simply living cheap, because with frugality we can get healthier mean like eat more vegetables or even eat non-pesticide vegetables.. Also free from clutters.. and so on..

  103. Colin Joss says 27 January 2008 at 22:31

    Speaking about purchasing your joy..

    We may also need to consider of optimizing the length of enjoyment and benefit of a product. If we want to be frugal, we should not purchase a product just because ours is rather old or doesn’t have the new features.

    Colin Joss
    East Lothian, Haddington
    United Kingdom

  104. KC says 12 January 2009 at 06:06

    I can’t think of 2 better things to spend money on than food and wine, unless maybe its the pets. My dog brings me endless amounts of joy and laughs. Not to mention a blood pressure decrease of 10 points (and its lasted all 6 years we’ve had him, too).

    It sounds like you may have reached a threshold in your spending, which was bound to happen. Your costs probably can’t be improved much upon unless you get bored with your hobby and just drop it. Besides pet expenses will fluctuate from year to year, especially as your cats age. And food and vice are likely to increase each year with inflation. Entertainment and books likely will as well although they are more discretionary then food. But I’d be happy with your numbers. My husband and I really rack up the food and alcohol tabs.

  105. Alison Wiley says 12 January 2009 at 06:17

    I really appreciate your sharing your specific, real-life numbers in the different categories — it’s a grounded reality check for the rest of us. We’ve got to measure an expense to then manage it.

    I did this with my wine expense, only I did it on the lifetime level rather the one-year timespan. What I found was rather shocking: http://tiny.cc.3RQJA

  106. HollyP says 12 January 2009 at 06:19

    It seems like you are making great progress in aligning your spending with your values/interests now that your original goal of paying off debt has been met.

    I have reached a point where I’ve made a choice not to engage in efforts to substantially cut my expenses. I think they are in line with our values, and we are just trying to hold steady.

  107. EscapeVelocity says 12 January 2009 at 06:35

    Are you including furniture damage in the cat expenses? 🙂
    I favor the going out less often but to nice restaurants option myself, but by less often I mean probably less than twice a month on average. Thought about cooking classes to learn to prepare fancy meals at home? Invite some friends, so it’s still an occasion rather than a chore.

  108. Christine Groth says 12 January 2009 at 06:51

    J.D. I totally agree with you it’s the balance between making more money and spending less. So many people think that just cutting back will be enough, but it’s not. Every one of us needs to have a little entrepreneural spirit within us. One thing that you didn’t mention is the concept of “do I really need this”. Many of the things on market today didn’t exist 10 years ago, “and did we survive not spending our money on it”. I think the answer is yes!!

  109. Jeff says 12 January 2009 at 06:54

    It’s always tough to assign categories to spending. I think you’re doing a great job by keeping the same categories, year over year to get a consistent outlook.

    The fact that you are so open about your life and finances is what makes G-R-S so wonderful. Thank you!

  110. [email protected] says 12 January 2009 at 07:14

    I hope your maximizing the fullest with the use of coupons! so many pet food coupons out there to save a bundle of money 😀

  111. Steph says 12 January 2009 at 07:25

    It’s fun to get your perspective on eating out. As I read your column I had all this advice going through my head about how you could cook fancy meals at home to save money, but then I realized that the food isn’t the point for you. When you indicated that you’d keep eating out but choose less expensive restaurants I realized that you’re not searching for fantastic food that you’re unable to prepare at home but that some other part of the experience is drawing you to eat out.

    It sounds like you’re pretty happy with your status quo, so maybe you don’t want to change this habit. If you do want to save some money in this area, you could figure out what attracts you to eating out and see if there is another equally enjoyable but less expensive way of meeting that need.

    Good job with the books and comics, by the way. Very tough habits to curb.

  112. elisabeth says 12 January 2009 at 07:33

    I can see why it is interesting to use the same categories for a long term look. But as you point out, things change when you get your debt load under control, and at some point the distinction between discretionary/nondiscretionary becomes really thin — we usually have choices about almost everything: how much to pay on the mortgage (over the minimum); what car you choose to drive, and what gasoline you put in it, and so on, so eventually, I think that one just needs to track how much one is spending and on what, and react to that.

  113. 15 Minutes to Riches! says 12 January 2009 at 07:55

    Those numbers actually look pretty good, congrats!

    This is a good idea to track these things… I hope to begin doing this more thoroughly for 2009.

  114. HIB says 12 January 2009 at 07:57

    It’s great to see that your discretionary spending is headed in your desired direction. I hope to be implementing something similar in my life.

    Great stuff J.D!
    -HIB

  115. Susy says 12 January 2009 at 08:14

    I agree. Pets are worth the expense. We have 3 cats and 1 dog and we spend on average $100 per month on all of our pets. This includes their good quality pet food (which decreases the costs of vet bills considerably) and our dogs thyroid medicine ($20 per month).

    I track everything down to the T. I can tell you how much I spent on cat litter each year for the past 10 years. It’s a great way to track how much prices increase and how much you’re hard work at decreasing spending in certain categories is working.

    We worked hard at trying to reduce our grocery spending, while still trying to eat mostly local, organic and unprocessed foods. Ironically while eating healtfully all year (which people say is more expensive) we are spending less each month.

  116. brooklynchick says 12 January 2009 at 08:24

    I’m really interested to see what you spend your “fun” money on in 2009. I too have cut back my book spending, and am working on dining out and vice spending. Its helped me realize that when I get rid of my debt, I would like to spend fun money on travel!

  117. ThatGuy says 12 January 2009 at 08:25

    I really liked this post, comparing how much I spend on different categories is fun and enlightening. I am not sure how you track your expenses, but I found using googledocs to be very helpful. I liked it so much, that I wrote a basic guide.

    http://austyrite.blogspot.com/2008/09/how-to-track-expenses-in-three-easy.html

    -ThatGuy

  118. Abigail says 12 January 2009 at 08:32

    I think you’re on the right track here with realizing that numbers are only half the story. So long as your spending responsibly, there is no frugal commandment against guilty pleasures. As we all like to remind non-frugal folks, it’s not about deprivation — it’s about wise spending.

    Also, given that have a purr-meister sitting on my shins as I type this, I definitely have to agree about the cost of pets. There’s the potential for high costs, if they do get sick. But they bring us joy. And, especially if they’re inside cats, for relatively little money.

  119. J.D. says 12 January 2009 at 08:33

    @ThatGuy
    I’ve tried to use Google Docs for a variety of things, but just cannot seem to incorporate it into my workflow. If I could do that, it would make my life so much easier.

    For personal finance, I use Quicken. The desktop version. For Mac. It’s like the world’s worst personal finance software, but it works for me. I also use QuickBooks for Get Rich Slowly, the business.

    I actually have a post I’ve been working on for months (a year?) that explains my process.

    @brooklynchick
    Right now, I don’t have plans to spend my money on anything. I’ve simply given myself permission to not be so tight. I actually like the idea of planning my spending in advance, and may do that. (I’d thought of that last night while writing this piece.)

  120. Hope says 12 January 2009 at 08:41

    J.D. After years of Quicken in Windows, I bought a Mac and tried to transfer my data. Long story short, I kept my old laptop until Apple made a Mac with ability to do Windows, because the alternative was to start back about 15 years and enter all the data. Even the guys at the Genius Bar admitted it had real limitations, including no transfer of data on investments or mortgages, just to name a couple.

    Do you hate Quicken? Or just Quicken for Mac?

  121. mbrogz3000 says 12 January 2009 at 08:46

    We started spending the same amount $35-$40 for ‘better’ , but less quantity (30lbs vs a 40lb from walmart) dog food which doesn’t have any by-products or corn for our single dog. He actually likes it and gobbles up the whole bowl rather than grazing from it, and his coat has become shiny (as advertised). Its looking like a 30 lb bag can last 1.5 month for him. Better ingredients in means better overall health, and we know he’s happy so its worth it to us. We consider his food as grocery spending.

    Oakleys for me is the equivalent of the comic books. I had already been tracking my lifetime spending on their products (15 years), and it really wasn’t that bad. I could easily turn around and recoup all my money if it was necessary, but I never would. I started Quicken this year, and made a category called Oakley so I could pinpoint this years spending on it. I typically don’t buy anything Oakley on impulse either, its usually something I think about for a while.

  122. J.D. says 12 January 2009 at 08:55

    @Hope
    I just hate Quicken for Mac. I think that Quicken for Windows (or at least the last version I saw of it, back in 2001) is pretty darn good. My complaints are mostly UI-based, though I’m also pretty frustrated that the online updates for my investments seem to have died. It’s nice to look at my balances in Quicken right now, but I have to keep reminding myself that they’re all from mid-September.

    And though maybe I’m shooting myself in the foot to say this about a GRS advertiser (hints of Friday’s discussion!), I think that Intuit as a company often sucks. I hate a lot of their policies.

    The best personal finance software I ever used? “Managing Your Money” from Andrew Tobias back in the early 1990s.

  123. Roger says 12 January 2009 at 09:08

    Since I subscribed to your site, which is so informative and helpful, I don’t recall you writing about an allocation of funds towards helping out the needy. For example, I plan to start my Foundation to help out kids in some ways (more on that later in the year). But, I realized that I could contribute and help out. I mentioned this to some friends who objected with their pessimism. I countered that I cannot quickly solve the problems but by fueling negativity I am not helping alleviate them either. At any rate, I also countered that a lot of people spend on drinks, excess coffee, cigarrettes, etc. If people made the commitment to save or cut back on items as such, they could save money and help out the needy. Can you write an article about that, please. (see the Fabretto Foundation).

  124. bethh says 12 January 2009 at 09:09

    Well, I use a notebook to track all my spending, so at least you’ve got some automation on me! (However I love my grubby little notebook and am already mourning that I can’t find an exact duplicate to use when it runs out of pages in June of this year.)

    If you don’t think the numbers are reflective of your full picture, have you thought of adding a metric? Comparing your spending to that of previous years is great, but you could always start a new set of numbers to use going forward.

    For the first time I’m trying to pre-allocate my spending in various categories, but I pretty much blew it this weekend, only the 2nd weekend of the year! However I’m going to TRY to get back in the saddle and see how close I can get to my budgeted amounts this month. It’s a learning curve, right?

  125. J.D. says 12 January 2009 at 09:19

    Roger wrote: Since I subscribed to your site, which is so informative and helpful, I don’t recall you writing about an allocation of funds towards helping out the needy.

    Actually, I’ve written about this a couple of times before. I’ve also had long discussions about this subject with my wife and with my accountant (who is also a friend). Here’s the short version:

    I wasn’t raised in a culture of giving. It’s not something my family did. Our church asked for a 10% tithe, but we didn’t even do that very often. So, I don’t have this ingrained. However, it’s something I want to do. All the same, it’s difficult. I do make charitable donations, but nowhere near as much as I could (or should?). Whenever I think about doing a donation, I get scared. “What if I need that money in the future?” I ask myself. So, I don’t contribute as much as many other people do.

    I write about the subject once or twice a year, and it’s definitely on my list as something I need to explore in the future.

  126. Allen says 12 January 2009 at 09:35

    Hi JD,

    I started reading GRS last year and it really was a good way to stay on track.

    I would suggest that you also look at your monthly spending and calculate how long you have to work(based on your hourly wage) to make enough after tax money for that expense. You might find you could work less, be less stressed and needs less vices, if you simply eliminate or greatly reduce certain expenses.

    Allen

  127. Katie says 12 January 2009 at 09:48

    Have you written elsewhere about keeping separate accounts from your wife? I’ve known couples that keep their own accounts for “fun” spending, but it seems like it could get challenging to handle separate accounts for your daily spending on things such as cat food, especially if both of you may go to the store. How does that work for you? That could be a great potential post since I know many couples that struggle with the balance between mixing accounts and keeping some things separate.

  128. Krystal says 12 January 2009 at 09:53

    Hi JD-

    Excellent post. I just did my budget review for 2008. I was so excited to see a reduction in dining out for me (which was one of my goals to reduce). However, my pet expenditures increased due to my wonderful rescue pup who joined my cat, boyfriend and I in our home. Knowing we were eager to add to our family, we sat down and talked about how we could make it work, and found a lot of extra spending in dining out (a habit picked up and mastered by living in the culinary capital of San Francisco for 3 years). Wow, was it worth it!!! My dog needed a lot of training and we were able to address his needs, as well as some extra surprise medical needs he had. We cut our dining out from $300/mo. to $75/mo., annual average. (this includes lattes and days when we don’t pack our lunches, ordering pizza, etc.) I am so proud of us!
    And the dog was so worth it. I think the cat is happier, too (Sounds weird, but it gives her someone to boss around and hang out with while we are at work).

  129. Ian says 12 January 2009 at 09:54

    Thanks for sharing. I really like to see how as time wnet on the decresionary spending decreased, yet overall your financial health and mental health continued to improve.

  130. J.D. says 12 January 2009 at 09:54

    @Katie
    Here’s my take on joint and separate accounts. Basically, I believe each couple should do what works for them. Kris and I have always had separate accounts, and that system has worked well for us. There are places where we’ve merged, but mostly we keep our finances discrete.

  131. Krystal says 12 January 2009 at 09:57

    JD-

    I agree with the Quicken for Mac. Microsoft Money, for me, was much better. Personally that is the only thing in the world I prefer a PC for.
    We tweaked our budget mid-year like we always do, and it lost all of our information when we run reports, so I have to compare my 2008 budget by hand! I can do it, but isn’t the point of a money management software to make it easier on us, make us want to manage our money?

  132. JimiSlew says 12 January 2009 at 10:10

    W/ Allison.

    Hey J.D. I also appreciate real numbers. Any chance you could do a piece on the willingness of individuals to share their financial data?

    I have often talked finances with friends, some find it prying some find it enlightening, and I wonder why the difference? I don’t do it to 1-up them (like I could) but to see if I’m making the best choices, smart purchases, good career moves, etc.

    In short why do some of us share and others don’t?

    Food for thought.

    -Jim

  133. Jenni says 12 January 2009 at 10:22

    Hmm, I should split up food costs into ‘grocery’ and ‘dining out’ in my budget. That’s a great idea.

    You mention that you and Kris have separate accounts–have you written a post regarding this? In a couple of years I will be getting married, and I want to have an idea of how we’ll divide our money (and pay for bills, etc) before then.

    Whoops, looks like someone beat me too it … I’ll check out the link you included.

  134. Kristina says 12 January 2009 at 10:33

    That’s a lot of restaurants and booze 🙂

    Your cat spending actually seems very frugal. Is that budget adequate for you? I try to do annual vet exams, and I only use high-quality cat food (would never feed my cats the scary grocery store brands that barely even have real meat in them), plus I make sure they get a little treat every day of canned for or a tidbit of meat. I also buy more expensive litter that’s better for the environment and the cats. I don’t track things precisely, but I’m guessing I spend a lot more than you do, and I only have 2 cats.

    I hope that one day you do become the “crazy cat guy!” You seem wonderful with them, and there are certainly enough cats in the world who need to be rescued from shelters and would find your home to be heaven.

    Regarding giving: Make a point of practicing!! Like anything else, you have to flex your giving muscles to build them. And you have to do things repeatedly for them to become habits. I work in fundraising and think that in addition to being the “right” thing to do, becoming a donor/philanthropist is very empowering. Decades ago I started with giving in small amounts ($10-50). Then I’d force myself to write $100 checks. I felt nervous, but I also felt a little thrill and it was exciting. Then I moved up to $500-1000 checks. It’s exciting to give more than feels comfortable and to feel yourself expanding in that area. It’s also exciting to be giving enough to actually make a difference (for me that usually involves giving to the Humane Society and maybe a couple of other animal groups and a couple of women’s rights groups).

  135. Chett says 12 January 2009 at 10:45

    JD,

    I just purchased Quicken and bought it because they advertised it would upload information right from my bank account and allocate it into the correct catagories for easier tracking. It turns out there is a monthly fee for doing this ($10.00). That information is not printed anywhere on the software. I am trying to use the software, but I find it a bit cumbersome. If you have questions regarding how to use the software and want to call someone with the company it costs $20.00. What I bought your product, aren’t you supposed to provide some type of advice or service to the customer?

    I’ll use it because I bought it, but I am not a fan of Quicken after trying to use it over the past month. I am looking forward to your entry on your experiences with Quicken.

  136. J.D. says 12 January 2009 at 10:54

    Kristina wrote: I hope that one day you do become the “crazy cat guy!”

    HA! I can see it now. That’s my next site after GRS, and it’s going to be HUGE. I’ll take paid advertorials for Cat Chow. 🙂

  137. Jamison says 12 January 2009 at 11:03

    As for books, I don’t think I have spent over 3 bucks on a book in the past year. I am a fan of classics (I hated reading them in High School so I am re-reading them to find I like them) and on ebay books go for pennys. Plus, I work at a school and many times the library gets new books to replace old copies and gives the old copies away. And when a student finishes reading an assigned book, they normally just give it to the library and the library is overstocked with them so I take them 🙂

  138. Kerry says 12 January 2009 at 11:11

    Wow, I thought I was the only one struggling with food expenses after making the switch to working from home. That’s a big one for me right now…eating out is a much bigger deal to me than it used to be.

  139. thomas says 12 January 2009 at 11:16

    Wow, not only am I impressed that you have the spending broken down to such levels but that you have it for the past 4 years. Great analysis of your spending patterns.

  140. April Dykman says 12 January 2009 at 11:25

    We call my dad, who has six cats (two are wild and only come by for meals), the Cat Wrangler, the Cat Whisperer, and we refer to the cats as his army or his legion. 🙂

    I want to get better about allowing myself to spend a bit more. Spending money gives me anxiety, even if it’s a well-researched expenditure. We spent last year hunkering down and paying off all debt, but even now that we’re debt-free and have decent savings, it’s hard to spend on things that aren’t true necessities. I think about the house we’re building, the vacation we want to take, and our other goals, and I feel guilty about spending money.

    I used to spend with abandon only to be shocked when the CC bill arrived. Strangely, I’m on the other end of the spectrum, and I track every penny. I need some balance there.

  141. Michele says 12 January 2009 at 11:25

    Discretionary spending is a timely topic: last night I found Discover card’s new “Spend Analyzer”. When you log into your account, it creates a pie chart of your spending categories in snapshots ranging from 1 to 24 months. When you click on a wedge, it accesses the specific transactions. I am loving this thing! It’s like Quicken without the confusing BS.

    As far as people chastising about charitable giving, not only is that uncalled for, but so many folks overlook the value of charitable giving of TIME. Some places need your back more than your greenbacks.

  142. RJ says 12 January 2009 at 11:27

    These are good numbers, J.D. To put them into context, it would help to know how these numbers (and the percentage of your income they represent) compare to what you’re saving. Your discretionary spending may have increased overall, but how does the rate of increase compare to the rate of increase in your income?

    I can relate to the food, wine, and dining-out expenses, but these for me are partly a hobby. Like you, I’d rather have a few dozen high quality restaurant meals per year than several dozen or hundreds of forgettable restaurant meals.

    In any event, you’re a good example of someone who’s careful and reasonably frugal yet not miserly and ascetic.

  143. The Personal Finance Playbook says 12 January 2009 at 11:41

    I have never used Quicken, but I know some people are happy with it. As an alternative to Quicken, you might try Mint.com. I’m not sure it’s as good…but it’s free and it’s easy to use.

  144. La BellaDonna says 12 January 2009 at 12:42

    @Kristina – what litter are you using?
    @Krystal – it’s not at all strange that your kitty is happier with someone to boss around! It’s better for most animals to have a companion animal, and a dog will do if you don’t have another cat. Contrary to a lot of “expert” opinions, most cats prefer company … on their terms. Yes, certainly, there are single-cat households where the cat does prefer to be single, but in my experience, that’s not the majority of cats. I speak from my twenty-five-plus years of experience as a Crazy Cat Lady, with LOTS of opportunity to take note of feline behaviour!

    I think it’s wonderful that you’re hoping for your own Cat Crazy some day, J.D. Fair warning: It can get expensive. REALLY expensive. I remember one summer where I was at the vet’s three nights a week, with three different cats each night. That adds up really quickly when it’s coming out of a private pocket. It’s best to be the Crazy Cat Person AFTER you’ve financed your retirement, or you could find out, one day, that your entire retirement fund now says “meow”. If I had saved half – a quarter – of what I spent, I’d be a whole lot better off now. But how can I regret feeding kitties when they’re hungry, or taking them to the vet’s when they’re sick?

  145. mbrogz3000 says 12 January 2009 at 12:49

    Quicken charges $10 per month, just for connecting to each bank account and credit card??? Thats news to me. Are you sure thats not their Billpay service? I know it lets you download your finances once or twice without registering, but then keeps pestering you to register in order to sync up with your accounts, even if you purchase a legit copy of their website.

    Every time the subject of free personnel finance software comes up, which you have access to from anywhere…just keep in mind that the company providing the software for free will read and analyze your private data, and there is also the possibility of stolen financial data too. If its installed software on your standalone machine which you paid the $40 for, the software developer doesn’t see anything. Quicken premier does have an online backup service (not sure if you pay for it or not), and I highly recommend not using it for the same reasons. If you need to make backups, just copy the files in your My Documents onto a standalone CD or DVD and place it in a safe place….thats it.

  146. G. Schwanke says 12 January 2009 at 12:53

    As far as entertainment is concerned-have you tried hulu.com for some of your television and movie interests? hulu.com provides “free” mainstream TV and movies (at the cost of your internet connection which for you is presumably a business expense anyway) online (very high quality programming, closed captioning, etc.. I urge you to check it out if you haven’t already. Personally, I’ve started to really cut back on TV and movies as I’ve observed how much they can waste my valuable time! That isn’t to say I don’t go to the local dollar theater or rent the occasional movie-I’ve simply taken more personable responsibility and self direction for this kind of entertainment. I also do a lot reading because it is both relaxing, inspiring, and edifying (definitely worth my time). Other good free online resources include pandora.com (free online radio which uses your requests to program songs) and songza.com which will play any song you request on the spot! Enjoy!

  147. Kristina says 12 January 2009 at 13:03

    La BellaDonna: There are 3 brands that I like and recommend…

    World’s Best Cat Litter
    Swheat Scoop
    Space (I believe it’s sold exclusively at Trader Joes)

    World’s Best is corn-based and Swheat is wheat-based. They are so natural that squirrels would have an occasional snack when I had the litter box on my balcony! This way, your cats aren’t breathing in harmful chemicals that many other litters have. They are also much better for the environment than clay litters. When I had a balcony, I found that I could even throw the clumps over the balcony (or bury it in a hole outside) and it would quickly compost. Since it’s not clay, you can also flush both of these litters (though I’ve recently heard that this is bad for sea animals and is part of the reason that seal populations are suffering in California — something about micro-organisms in cat feces).

    I used World’s Best and Swheat when I had the litter box on my balcony or in the bathroom. I recently moved and had to put the litter box in a coat closet (sort of gross, I know). I switched to Space, which is silica based, because it seemed a little less dusty and it didn’t lead to quite as many little bits outside the box.

  148. Krystal says 12 January 2009 at 13:20

    Sure enough, just as I had discussed cutting back in one category (dining) to pay for another (pets), my dog, about 2 hours ago, cut his paw open on a walk, and is now coming out of sedation after being stitched up by the vet (it was a BIG gash!). I am reviewing my budget to see where to cut to pay for this unexpected expenditure (I am not debt-free yet, and I work my budget hard every month to pay off my credit card debt). Turns out, I have enough in non-emergency fund savings (this is an account I use, hooked with my checking, and I accrue a couple hundred every so often to stash in my emergency fund or toward my credit card payments). Looks like I will be paying off less than I expected on those cards this month! (An argument for saving WHILE you are paying off debt!)

  149. frugalscholar says 12 January 2009 at 13:42

    Although I am the world’s greatest tightwad, it makes me sad to see so many people talk about not spending on books!

    Also, this may be too personal, but it would be interesting to see your totals if you combined, say, food and pet costs, with the totals of your spouse. That would indicate what these areas cost in total for your household. Another also, following Warren et al, sharing what percentage of income various areas constitute.

    thanks for an interesting post!

  150. Runner2 says 12 January 2009 at 14:27

    As the cost of living has a tendency to trend upwards over time. It becomes increasingly more difficult to spend less in some categories. My wife and I began using the “Envelope System” espoused by Dave Ramsey, about ten years ago. Each pay period, we allocated money to our different desired spending categories. When the money ran out, we were done spending, until the next pay period. For us, it created a forced discipline. Our dicretionary expenses are indeed higher today than they were then. But, by developing a budget and allocating our money towards what was important to us, we became debt-free, accept for the house. Because our bills have been eliminated, we have been enabled to spend our money on what is Really important to us. While reducing consumption can be a meaningful goal, ridding oneself from the shackels of debt, too, can be a most satisfying experience.

  151. E says 12 January 2009 at 14:33

    “Many personal finance writers view pets as an unnecessary expense.”

    Do they also view children as such? They are optional, after all. Pets are MUCH cheaper and many people find the benefits are greater. 😉

    We also had a huge and un-planned-for vet bill last week. I have the money to pay for it; it wasn’t what I WANTED to use that money for, but I’m glad it’s there. And the way she greeted me when I got home yesterday after a bad day made it all worth it. 🙂

  152. Elizabth says 12 January 2009 at 14:40

    I understand the difficulty of giving – even though I think it is important. I am married to a huge spender and am constantly either trying to come up with an extra $300 or worried that if it was alright this month he will slip and it will be twice as bad next month. He brings home junk which I move and it only comes out of it’s packaging so he can look at it and be pleased and then it is stacked with the rest of junk. He also would give to anyone, however, the reactionary effect is that I become cheap and want to clench tightly to every penny – sometimes quite literally. I am looking forward to the day that I can make some of those choices about giving because it is an important way to support causes you care about. In the meantime I volunteer when I can – I may not have a lot of time, but that doesn’t cause overdrafts and over the limit fees.

  153. chacha1 says 12 January 2009 at 16:24

    Hi JD and the Comment Cloud, I recently discovered this blog and am loving it. I am always looking for reinforcement, rather than tips, since I am pretty careful with money but it does get hard sometimes to stay focused. Specifically on the topic of books: I consider my collection part of my retirement fund. I have an Amazon “budget” of $50 per paycheck (that’s about 3% of my net), and part of it goes for music which I need for the business I’m starting (dance teacher), but most goes for books or DVDs. I can happily re-read or re-view multiple times with anything I consider a “keeper.” When I retire – 30 years from now – if my income goes down, I’ll have that collection to keep me entertained.

  154. Very Evolved says 12 January 2009 at 16:31

    Nice breakdown and analysis – the only way you can actually get the big picture.

    I am a neuroscientist so I’m interested in the biological aspects of human behavior with money and on the markets – It seems that a lot of money related human behavior is kind of like gambling.

    I wrote an introduction to the biological aspects of how the brain reacts to situations like the market in my article The Stone Age Brain vs The Stock Market.

    Anyway, the best way to change your behavior is the way you’ve demonstrated in this article, by writing it down tracking it.

    -Patrick

  155. quinsy says 12 January 2009 at 16:31

    you are a runner and you smoke pipe tobacco? as a physician, that pains me…

    re: the giving question… you worry about whether you’ll need the money someday before making a donation to charity, but not before spending $500 on comic books? may need another think. 🙂 remember, you don’t have to be a huge donor to make a difference. a little bit goes a long way in charity, just like in personal finance.

  156. J.D. says 12 January 2009 at 16:41

    @chacha1
    RE: The Comment Cloud — love that term. 🙂

    Also, I like the way you’re thinking of your “retirement fund”. I think that’s clever.

    @quinsy
    I don’t inhale. 🙂

    Actually, I don’t inhale. I know that it’s little better to be sucking that stuff into my mouth, but still. I enjoy it, I do it in moderation, and…well, I’m just rationalizing, aren’t I?

    Also, I’m well-aware of the comic books vs. charity “problem”. I was thinking about it just this morning.

    What I actually think — and some others have pointed me this direction — is that eventually here, I’ll begin to donate my time to charity. I would love to make an actual difference with the work I do. If I were to sell GRS for a sum that could keep me comfortable, I would seek work in non-profit financial education. (Volunteer work, if I could.)

    Again, maybe I’m rationalizing. 🙂

  157. Roger says 12 January 2009 at 16:47

    “Whenever I think about doing a donation, I get scared. “What if I need that money in the future?” I ask myself. So, I don’t contribute as much as many other people do.”

    Well, when I look at my 2009 budget, I’m only allocating 1% of my total salary — after a nice 20% that I’ve deducted to go into savings — in donation to help kids. That makes me feel great because it makes me cut my budget in certain areas to help me meet my goal. You see, I view personal finances as a company’s; therefore, you boost the bottom line but also enhnace the social responsibility and you contribute to the world’s betterment. this in return makes you want to work harder and smarter to make more money.

  158. Frugal Bachelor says 12 January 2009 at 17:23

    Were you counting debt payments as “expense” category? I have always counted debt payments (principal) as savings – and only the interest as expense.

  159. Civil Savant says 12 January 2009 at 17:43

    I really appreciate the detail you shared about your spending categories. Every book I’ve read about financial independence advocates being conscious of your in-flow and out-flow.

    I’ve reduced my spending substantially over the last years, and I’m within striking distance of paying off all debt this year. My partner wants to move into a bigger place. Its much nicer than the two bed two bath we share, but the rent is 2.5 times higher. I do see the benefits to a place where we can entertain more, have more room to pursue our hobbies, get a better night sleep, etc. I’m trying not to live in fear, but I’m having trouble wrapping my arms around the increase in cost for rent. I’ve done the math, we can afford it, but we are going to be putting a big chunk of discretionary spending out the door every month for the nicer place.

    One friend said it’s good to have to stretch a little, that it can inspire you to increase the number of income streams.

  160. Centsability to Wealth says 12 January 2009 at 17:44

    Do you have an account dedicated to large pet expenses such as vet visits, etc., or do you simply use your emergency fund to cover such expenses?

  161. Kristina says 12 January 2009 at 18:09

    J.D.,
    Long-term it’s good to be thoughtful about your philanthropy and to have a giving plan. But in the meantime, don’t over-analyze your way out of giving. Just do it, as often as possible. There’s no need to find the perfect organization or to research every possible option. For whatever issue you care about, there are some large nonprofits that are certainly trustworthy (Humane Society, ACLU, Planned Parenthood, etc.) and that will put your money to good use. There are also very local organizations that are easy to check out and trust (a local animal shelter, mentor program, domestic violence shelter) and know your money is going right to good work. There’s also always a crisis somewhere in the world (Katrina, Darfur, etc.) where you can be certain that your funds will go to immediate use. So, don’t resist letting the perfect be the enemy of good and just start giving. I promise that it will feel good, and I promise that you’ll be just fine financially. As you accumulate more wealth and become increasingly frugal, it’s probably an even better and more urgent reason to make sure you maintain generosity and don’t hang onto that money too tightly!

  162. S says 12 January 2009 at 18:13

    Yes, there are ‘crazy cat gentlemen.’ Our neighbor had at least 14 inside cats…..

  163. Adrienne says 12 January 2009 at 18:13

    J.D. I would love to see more real numbers in your finances. So many are willing to give debt and expense numbers but not income (making the other 2 a bit irrelavent). I know there is a taboo against sharing income but I would think a financial blog would break that taboo (it would also help us if more of us did in “real” life but that is another matter).

    Also thought I know you and Kris keep separate finances is she tracking and sharing similar info with you? No matter how separate you really are working as 1. If either of you lost your jobs or became injured the other would surely support. Also are you on the same page for retirement? If one of you has significantly more saved it could become an issue.

  164. J.D. says 12 January 2009 at 19:01

    @Adrienne (#57)
    I would love to share more of my real numbers. Believe me, I would love to put them out there to be dissected and analyzed and chewed over. However, the three people I trust most (my wife, my accountant, and my lawyer) have all advised me not to do so for a variety of reasons. For now, I’m following their advice.

    That’s not to say that I’ll never share them. If I were to ever sell the blog, or to hang up the cleats, or whatever, I might do a “going away” post that revealed some of the things I’m unable to share in everyday life.

    I guess what I’m saying is that my life is pretty transparent between my various blogs, but it’s not 100% transparent. That’s probably a good thing.

    Kris doesn’t track her money as closely as I do. She’s always been responsible with her money, though. She has more saved than I do, though I’m trying to catch up. I think we recently calculated that she’s saving something like 28% of her pay!!!!

    @Frugal Bachelor
    No, I wasn’t counting debt as expenses. I can see how that’s confusing. There’s no direct connection. It was a psychological connection. When I was paying interest on $35,000, I was also spending a lot on myself to ease the mental pain.

    @Everyone
    Thanks for your suggestions re: charity. This is something that I will continue to work out for myself, and I appreciate the input. It’s great.

  165. elisabeth says 12 January 2009 at 19:05

    looks like people don’t want to wait to talk about the donation line in the budget… I’m still not as generous and giving as I’d like to be, but I’ve found two ways to ease myself into giving:
    1) Part of our entertainment/gift giving budget does double duty as charity funds because we go to benefit activities — silent auctions and charity fairs where I can buy a gift for myself or for holiday giving while also supporting a charity, or benefit dinners or other events, where a portion of the check/ticket is a donation to a cause.
    2) The other approach that has worked for me is to primarily give locally, helping to support the local free medical clinic, the local domestic violence shelter feels and the local library feel a lot like choosing to shop locally, this is where my money belongs, and it’s an investment in a good future for this community.
    By the way, if there’s a domestic violence shelter or homeless shelter near you, you might ask them if they would accept donations of extra financial books you have, that would be a great way to extend the good work of the GRS blog into the world!

  166. La BellaDonna says 13 January 2009 at 07:26

    @Civil Savant: you say your partner wants you to move to a bigger place, which costs 2.5 times what your current place. However, it looks as if it will actually cost more than that in the long run, because of the reasons listed for acquiring this bigger, more expensive place: entertaining more; and pursuing hobbies. There’s nothing inherently wrong with any of these things: having a bigger place (wish mine was!) entertaining, and pursuing hobbies. But from what you’ve outlined, it appears as if you’re going to go from nearly debt-free to a significant increase in both your cost-of-living and your optional expenses. Is this what you really want? And will you actually be ABLE to entertain more and/or pursue those hobbies, if you’re paying 2.5 times what it costs to live someplace? I wound up having to buy a place at pretty much the LEAST opportune moment, and the increase in cost-of-living has sucked up my entertainment AND my hobby budget. That’s partly due to my efforts to clear my debt; I’m putting about 28% of my take-home into paying it off this year. But it’s not as if I’m going to go out carousing once my debt’s paid off; that money needs to be going into savings. It gets a little frustrating, but it’s a whole lot more important to me to have that roof over my head than it is to have an entertainment budget. Is this increase going to hit you the same way? And is it going to be affordable if something happens to either your income or your partner’s?

  167. quinsy says 13 January 2009 at 07:54

    hey JD:

    I think that’s a great idea, actually I have gotten in touch with a local group that does personal finance education and am planning to teach for them next month. we should all do this! how rewarding does that sound? talk about teaching a man to fish.

  168. Runner2 says 13 January 2009 at 08:26

    JD, I ‘m wondering what kind of group you have found that does financial education??? I have been searching for quite some time, but continue to receive resistance. Aside for teaching a class at church, I have been unable to fnd folks that are ready, or willing, to listen.

  169. Tyler Karaszewski says 13 January 2009 at 08:38

    Reading this post made me go total up my expenses by category for 2008. I don’t normally keep close track of exactly what I spend my money on, I just make sure that the important things are paid for, and then I try to make sure that the balances of my accounts stay “high enough” (I have specific limits for this), and the rest I can pretty much spend on whatever.

    You guys don’t even want to see what my totals look like, they’re almost embarrassing. But still, my main checking account balance was $673 lower at the beginning of 2009 than it was at the beginning of 2008, but that’s after having transferred $3427 more out of my checking to other accounts than I transferred into it, so I’m still ahead overall for the year, and that doesn’t even count debt repayments or retirement contributions.

    I look at my expenses and think that, yes, I could be spending less in a lot of areas, a *lot* less in some, but still, I’m spending less than make and saving for retirement, and that’s a winning strategy in the long run.

  170. Suzy says 13 January 2009 at 10:45

    Don’t forget that giving donations of gently used items to Goodwill or a similar organization is a great way to give to charity without feeling like you’re about to become destitute yourself. I also like to buy toiletries and food on sale & using coupons and give to food banks/shelters. This can be a more “frugal” way of giving b/c you’re not spending as much, but a charity is reaping the benefit. I wait til I have a big box of stuff, which doesn’t take long, then take it over.

  171. Connie says 13 January 2009 at 11:10

    As for pet expenses, you might be able to work with those a little.

    Make sure your vet is following the new vaccine protocols. for years vets gave every vaccine every year and now they are realizing they do not need to. http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WSAVA2002&PID=2615

    also, feeding a high quality species appropriate diet might help a lot of cats avoid some very common illnesses. to read up on why diet is so very important, check out the website by Dr. Peirson, who studies feline nutrition at http://www.catinfo.org

  172. Bhetti B says 13 January 2009 at 14:05

    Fly free as long as you’ve got that emergency fund…!

  173. moneygirl says 14 January 2009 at 03:24

    Wow, you’re eating out al lot!!!
    Or maybe it’s because I’m Dutch, we hardly ever eat out.
    Maybe it’s an idea to start or join a cooking group and prepare meals together!
    B.t.w. I loooooooooooooove your blog.

  174. Marcia says 15 January 2009 at 12:33

    That was a very interesting post. I think you’ve done very well for your eating out and food budget (which is where I focus most of my energy). We recently totalled ours up to about $6900 for 2008, two adults and a toddler. Our eating out budget dropped several hundred dollars last year, because eating out with a 2 year old is a pain.

    I guess on how much you spend per meal out, you have to decide what you prefer. If just being “out” and not having to cook and do dishes, then a cheaper place is fine. I find that the more I cook, the worse restaurant meals taste. Another reason we eat out less.

    I love me a good burrito ($6), but I can make one of them at home. I try to balance the “nicer” dinners (of something I just wouldn’t make myself) with cheaper (but still tasty) dinners. And like I said, I love a nice candlelight dinner of crabcakes and salad, but they don’t take too well to a child running around. And we don’t have a babysitter.

  175. Nick says 15 January 2009 at 16:26

    However you cut it, it all comes down to decreasing spending, and increasing income. Of course that’s overly simplified, but at it’s core, that’s what anyone who’s serious about being wealthy is about.

  176. Cathy says 16 January 2009 at 18:32

    My cat is not an ‘optional’ expense. She’s family. Her food is included in our grocery bills. Maybe I might have more money in my account, but I can’t imagine how boring my house would be without her. No little meows when I come home from work. No dances around the supper bowl. No amusement from her playing with string. She gives me joy that doesn’t have a monetary value.

  177. 2million says 17 May 2009 at 16:06

    If this is only one side of your household’s discretionary spending (since you keep separate accounts from your wife) then that might suggest you and your wife may spend $16k+/year on discrecenary expenses. That actually seems pretty high to me.

  178. Writer's Coin says 08 June 2009 at 05:04

    Welcome to the wonderful world of budgeting! You’re right, $750 seems really high to spend on wants every month, but hey, looks like you’ve earned it.

    As for adjusting, we check out budget on the 15th of every month and at the end of every month. So halfway through we have an idea of where we stand and if we need to pull back in any category. And I’d sweep any leftovers into the vacation fund. I think it would be a colossal mistake to roll that money over unless you’re saving up for a major purchase.

    The interesting thing about your post is that your personal finance wizardry is allowing you to now spend money as freely as someone who has no budget. I don’t know how I’d spend $750/month on wants. Where are you going to put all those books/comic books?

  179. mikemc says 08 June 2009 at 05:16

    My wife and I set up a spending plan/budget before each month, and then we check it once a week just to see where we are with things and how much left under each “bucket” or more importantly where we overspent/under budgeted. I use an Excel sheet to draft the initial monthly budget (so we can play around with figures), but use Moneywell to actually track and manage. It took 4 or 5 months for us to iron it out, but worth it in the end to me to have the peace of mind of a plan so we do not over spend. Seeing the amounts with our own eyes makes us more accountable for not going over budget.

    Good luck!

  180. DDFD at DivorcedDadFrugalDad says 08 June 2009 at 05:20

    Great minds think alike– here is the breakdown I just posted a few days ago about allocating a pay raise:

    Here is what I would do first:

    40% Debt/liability reduction
    30% Emergency fund
    20% Long-term investments
    10% Splurge

    After the debts and liabilities were satisfied, I would shift to the following:

    60% Emergency fund
    30% Long-term investments
    10% Splurge

    Finally, after the emergency fund was realistically funded I would shift to my final breakdown:

    80% Long-term investments
    20% Splurge

    You can budget splurge spending . . .

  181. Leslie says 08 June 2009 at 05:21

    I too resisted a budget for a LOOOOOOONG time. About 3 years ago I finally decided that I needed to try it. We had no debt but the house but were in the same position as you where we seemed to be buying things that we didn’t need and (in our case) not really making any progress towards goals we wanted to achieve (like travel, house repairs etc.). It is not too much of an overstatement to say that finally getting on a budget really revolutionized things for us financially (and this is from someone that has never had credit card debt and has been saving for retirement since my first job out of college).

    I happen to use YNAB as my budgeting program and I find it extremely helpful. However, you could get a long way with just Excel too. I just enter things that I have spent against the different budget categories weekly. I make a very real and concerted effort to stay within my limits that I set every month for each category but things do come up during the month that sometimes necessitate going over in one category or another for whatever reason. In that case, I just hold back in another category and switch money between areas (move some money from the clothing budget to cover the money I spent stocking up on a great grocery deal, for example).

    And, FYI, if I don’t spend all the money in one category during a month, I do roll it over to the next month in the same category. I may not add as much money to that category in the new month because I have rolled money over. Or, I may add just as much. Depends on what I think might be going on (a great new book being released, a concert that I want to go to, a need to replace some expensive shoes etc.).

    Good luck with this. Please give it a couple of months of really working with it. It took me about 3 months to get really comfortable with it and stop obsessing about it. Once I got it really working the way I wanted to it really made a HUGE difference for us.

  182. Kim says 08 June 2009 at 05:23

    I agree with the first poster – sweep any extra into the vacation savings. (Doing this may also provide the motivation NOT to eat out tonight).

    Because we love to travel, we maintain a travel fund which we keep topped off at $3,000. The result is that we always have the money to take a trip. After the trip is paid for, we build the 3 K back up. This method works extremely well.

  183. adam says 08 June 2009 at 05:26

    With respect to having a little bit of excess or going over a little bit in discretionary spending, our budget has enough flexibility that we sort of roll it into the next month either way. On average over the year it comes out to about even. We just keep track (either mentally or on paper) of what we’ve gone over/under and push it into next month.

  184. LizM says 08 June 2009 at 05:43

    I think you should probably roll over any extra into your vacation fund – $200 per month doesn’t seem like much if you are planning to go to Europe next year (depending on how much savings you are strating with, how long you want to go for, etc of course).

    I draw up a new budget every June (I was actually doing this tonight). June works for me because our financial year in Oz ends June 30 plus June is the month all our household’s biggest annual bills are due (car registration, car insurance and auto membership). June is good because it is also a good time to assess whether we can afford to go on a holiday over the summer break as we will have 6 months to save.

    My husband’s and my income is pretty reasonable (we are both professionals with secure jobs) and we don’t have any children (but are planning to next year). We essentially live off my husband’s income and save mine but we are hoping this year to reduce spending and essentially live off my income and save his (he earns about 20% more than me) so I have been trying to keep a closer eye on our budget.

    Like you, our income and spending seem fine (I have just gone through each category to check that we aren’t overspending anywhere though). These are all essentially ‘fixed’ expenses too so it makes them easier to budget for (some vary slightly month to month or quarter to quarter but tend to average out – so I just budget for the averages and then round up).

    Where we come across problems is in discretionary expenses. We have 5 categories that I set annual amounts for – groceries, gifts, clothes, entertainment and holidays. I keep my eye on these weekly until I am comfortable that we are sticking to budget and then I just check them monthly. Its slightly unconventional but it works for me. I keep a small notepad in my bag and just tally spending in each category each week. I’ve been keeping my eye out for an i-phone app that will let me do the same thing but so far I haven’t found anything that I like.

  185. Caitlin says 08 June 2009 at 05:45

    I track my spending with a PocketMod. A single sheet of paper, folded this way, is a great convenient way for me to actually track my spending. I’ve filled up mine with the “Finance” organizer page. I’ve tried bound planners, booklets, notepads, but they are too big or bulky to go with me everywhere. It’s smaller and more interesting than an index card, which to me is important in actually remembering to use it. I’m still in the tracking-what-I-spend stage, and not yet in the forward-looking-budget stage, but I’ll likely keep the same system. ^_^

  186. Tom says 08 June 2009 at 05:52

    I use a modified version of the envelope system. I have opened accounts at ING to put my budgeted dollars into. This keeps less cash lying around the house and more earning interest. Then when I am ready to make a purchase I can check to see if I have enough money for it and if so, I go for it, if not, I have to wait.

  187. ABCs of Investing says 08 June 2009 at 05:55

    I’ve budgeted successfully in the past when trying to pay off debt but it’s been a long time.

    I like the idea of budgeting the “wants” only. It’s easier to keep track of and they are the easiest category of expenses to change.

  188. April Dykman says 08 June 2009 at 05:58

    How funny…this is exactly where I am right now. We paid our debt and now I’m looking at how to budget for our wants. Actually writing out the budget is a great idea.

    I look at our spending each month, and if we go over, there’s usually a good reason (lots of April birthdays, a wedding and travel expenses, etc.).

    I think if we’re under it just ends up in general savings right now, but I think in the future I’d like to carry some of it over. I like buying quality clothing, for example, and I could see myself saving up for a couple of months in order to buy something nice. Then again, throwing it all into the vacation fund would be a good solution, too.

    I don’t like the envelope system because I’m an avid online shopper. I also seem to find some of the best deals online, and I use AA eshopping for bonus miles and Ebates for cash back. Maybe the notecard idea is worth a try. Right now all of our expenses go on a CC that we pay off (we do it for the AA miles), and since I reconcile in Quicken at the end of the month, at that point it’s too late to correct any spending for that month.

    I would like to keep spending low in some of the categories, only because others, like the vacation, are more important. Also, we’re building a house soon, and I want to direct the largest chunk of our discretionary spending into our house savings.

  189. Deborah says 08 June 2009 at 06:03

    I agree that putting any leftover money into your vacation fund will be a great motivator – you’ll get that money saved up much faster.

    I keep an eye through the month on where I am with spending in any category – but I do NOT let myself adjust those levels every month if I go over. I make myself try for several months in a row to meet my first target. It’s easy to convince myself that I need to spend more than I do. If I have to go over on my groceries, then I don’t sweat it too much. But if I don’t sweat it a little, then I know I’m buying more than I need. I’m not sure if it’s reverse psychology…but it works.

    Any extra money I save gets split in half: 50% to my student loans, 50% to my “fun” money (usually spent on books or a nice cheese or bottle of wine).

  190. Dan says 08 June 2009 at 06:05

    I’ve been using Mvelopes.com for the past 6 months. It allows for envelope-based budgeting while using plastic, etc. I love it. Since I like to use a rewards credit card for my day-to-day spending, it’s very easy to ignore a budget and over spend. By putting all of my transactions into Mvelopes and assigning them to an envelope, it helps me to enforce limits on my spending.

  191. Jeff says 08 June 2009 at 06:10

    I’ve been budgeting on a spreadsheet for a few years now – let me tell you that your system will evolve until all of your above concerns are answered. I really feel comfortable with my current system, and GRS definitely helped shape it’s concept:

    For me, I follow a balanced money formula of 50% Need, 25% Save, 25% Guilt Free spending. My 25% savings goal is automatically withdrawn on the 15th of every month, I use cash only (No CC) for the 25% spending, and the 50% need seems to fall in place with regular payments of rent, electric, auto, etc.

    I try to use the “less is more” approach to budgeting, not bury myself if sub-categories. Any spill-over money goes into short-term savings.

    “Our life is frittered away by detail. Simplify, simplify.”
    -Henry David Thoreau

  192. J.D. says 08 June 2009 at 06:17

    RE: budget for Vacation to Europe
    Sometimes I forget to mention that Kris and I keep separate finances. She’ll be saving for half of the trip, too.

    It’s re-assuring to here that other people do this same thing: budget only for discretionary spending. As LizM said, income and needs seem “fixed”. That is, they don’t fluctuate much, and I have no problems taking care of these things each month. It’s that leftover money that causes me woe.

    Thanks for all of your tips so far!

  193. Aaron says 08 June 2009 at 06:22

    I use Mint (www.mint.com) to keep track of budgets with a variable number of purchases such as you described. Essentially, you enter your credit/debit card accounts into the system, and it tracks and automatically categorizes every purchase based on what it is. For instance, a purchase at Barnes and Noble will show up in the “Books” category. It’s pretty extensible, and you have the ability to add categories, and also re-categorize things as need be.

    The best part about it, though, is that you can add a budget based on these categories to the front page of the website. When you spend in a category, a little bar lights up on the website, and is green if you are under budget so far for the month, yellow if you are overspending, and red if you have spent too much. If you make most of your purchases via a debit or credit card (that you pay off each month) you will be able to log in to Mint once in a while and check to see if your on track with your spending for the month.

    This way, you don’t need to go through the hassle of keeping a spread sheet together with what you have spent. They also allow you to see trends and such too, with nice Flash graphs.

    Hope this helps!

  194. KS says 08 June 2009 at 06:22

    We do something like this – the only areas we budget in are two where we can go haywire – eating out and groceries. My husband and I both have “allowances” – mine go to music lessons, yarn, lunch/coffee with friends, and the occasional book (we’ve cut way back on the book buying). No real clue what his goes towards :). We’re still paying student loans and a mortgage (but no consumer debt anymore – YEAH!), but we still allow ourselves the allowances because we can. I should probably start budgeting my allowance, too!

  195. Lesley says 08 June 2009 at 06:25

    We always carry over. Often, expenses vary over the year. Clothes are a particularly good example of this. I generally shop for clothes 2-3 times a year, plus maybe one or two other times when I have a specific need (like when I need a specific color t-shirt for an event). So I set aside the money each month. Even if you shop and buy one piece each month, what about large expenditures like winter coats, that occur only every few years?

    This really does apply in other areas. Some months I may have a lot of social committments and eat out a lot, other months I may have a lot of free time and want to pick up a few more books, or maybe a new game console comes out that I’d like to have.

    If you seem to be consistently having money left over and don’t anticipate the possibility of a larger want in that category, you can always reduce the budget.

  196. CPS says 08 June 2009 at 06:29

    The name of the blog after all is “Get Rich Slowly”. Not “Stay Cheap For Life.”

    So I think spending a little more is perfectly acceptable, but you’re right about keeping it in check. One can lose richness quickly if one loses control over spending.

  197. Alison Wiley says 08 June 2009 at 06:36

    I completely relate to your desire to enjoy yourself and your earnings, and also have clarity on your money and where it’s going. I’ve found that I can never enjoy my life too much — but it’s plenty easy to spend too much money. So I’ve written a post on ways I have lots of fun withOUT spending money. Hope it can be helpful to some readers: http://www.diamondcutlife.org/free-ways-to-enjoy-ourselves/

  198. Randy says 08 June 2009 at 06:43

    I am still paying off debt, but I have a “budget” with 4 items in it. All of my have to pays, cars, house, utilities are not in this budget. I have gas, groceries, eating out and miscellaneous. These are all things I can spend on or not at least to a certain degree. I have to eat, but I can eat beans or steak. That is why I say I have some control. We use a debit card for all purchases so I go online daily and put in what we spent. Takes about 5 minutes a day. To me you should have the categories and the budgeted aamount but if you overspend in on category it doesn’t matter as long as you cut back in anoter. As long as you don’t spend more than what you alloted does it really matter where you spent it? I mean if you buy an expensive game and it goes over its budgeted amount but you spend less eating out does it really matter? You are still on track if you don’t spend more than the total what you budgeted. Any thing left at the end of the month should be moved to savings someplace Vactation or whatever else you want to put it. I redo it monthly looking ahead and planning for things coming in the next month. This way if you know a new version of your favorite game is coming out you can plan for it. Remember a budget is a guide, not a rule.

  199. Jen says 08 June 2009 at 06:43

    I have an OpenOffice (www.openoffice.org – I love free legal software!) spreadsheet that I keep track of EVERYTHING on – needs and wants. I’m on unemployment, so “down to the last penny” is really important right now. I’m still paying down my student loans and building up my net value – yay!!!

    About the ‘wants’ budget: For about a year after I started keeping a budget, I tracked my wants in about 5-6 different categories like yours – eating out, entertainment (which included my social dancing entrance fees – at $5-$10 per night out, that adds up fast!), a “correspondence” category that funded long-distance phone calls to my then-overseas boyfriend, clothing, gifts for others, and (oddly as I look at it now) car maintenance.

    Problem was, I found myself fudging the numbers from one category to the next more often then not. I’d overspend on one and underspend on another and trade back and forth constantly. Sometimes I’d feel like I couldn’t eat out one night because there wasn’t any more money in my “Restaurants” category, even if there was $10 or $20 in my “Entertainment” category.

    I ended up sweeping much of that money together into one giant “Slush” fund that holds most of my “spend it on whatever you want” money. I still track clothes, gifts, and car maintenance separately, because those aren’t every week and I like to have money set aside for them. But books, games, nights out, everything else that I don’t HAVE to spend money on comes out of the slush fund. That way I don’t feel guilty or self-conscious “cheating” on my budget because I’m moving money around from one category to the next.

    I also like to keep a “Short-term savings” fund that I use kind of like the proverbial carrot on the stick – If I fund everything else and don’t overspend, I can put money in that fund for special things I’m saving for – like spending money for the trip to see that overseas boyfriend, or maybe cash for a new laptop. “Short-term” because it’s not an emergency fund, nor is it retirement, but it’s discretionary spending on things I want within the next few months to a year.

  200. Chris Wilson says 08 June 2009 at 06:54

    My wife and I track our budget constantly but have a monthly review at the end of the month. Basically here is our process.

    We make all purchases with a rewards-based credit card (I don’t advise this for everyone but since we are using a budget we are conscious of our spending). Occasionally stores we visit don’t accept credit cards so we use cash. We take the receipt home. It’s laid on my desk to remind me to enter it into the budget. Usually I do this every 2 days or so.

    Within our Excel budget we have tons of trackers/numbers to track our monthly progress. (Eventually I’d like to start using Mint.com to do this – since they have a budgeting tool built in). I have a total projected costs and total actual costs rows as well as projected living expenses (to see how well we can live off one person’s salary and save the other’s). Each time a receipt comes in I enter it into it’s category by the end of the month it looks like this in Excel…”0+5+8+9+15+30″. So I can add each receipt individually yet see the total in the formula. I want everything to be easy and simple to view. (P.S. I’ll be glad to send my budget template to anyone who wants to use it and give it a try).

    Here are some answers to your questions:
    1. We track ours monthly. My wife can sometimes call me nutty about it but I enjoy looking at the numbers and she is glad I do.
    2. Give yourself 3-4 months to let your budget align. Don’t worry too much about being a little over or little under. Track the budgets at the end of the 4 month period and average each category to get a better idea of what you should budget for in each category. Since we started our budget at the beginning of the year we have been pretty relaxed but we are about to start tightening this up since it’s been a full 5 months. We are making some job/life changes right now so the budget is going to get kind of crazy during the summer but by the fall I’m hoping to have it nailed down to where we are +/- $10 in each category (I like to give myself some wiggle room)
    3. If we are under budget (this is my favorite :)) then we have setup our ING account to have all our mutual financial goals which we sweep the remaining money into – therefore we forget we have “extra” for the upcoming month. We each have a blow account so we fund those each month – $100 per person then we sit down together and say “These are our priorities, what do we want to fund first?” (this can include car, travel, home improvement, house, etc – remember to get that emergency fund nailed down first). We like doing this together since we both can see each other’s goals visually and talk about them with one another.
    4. I use the Excel sheet to enter each expense but a notecard/envelope system would work to. I’m a huge fan of Excel and all it’s analysis/charting tools so it helps me to keep it digitally.
    5. We have also created a wealth management plan (name coined by my former finance professor). This is our written contract with ourselves of our goals and lifestyle that we’d like to pursue. We review this semi-annually (every 6 months) along with the budget and average out the categories to see if we need to realign more/less money into a specific category.

    Sorry for the long post but budgeting is something I’m a strong advocate for. I’ve watched former family members become horribly in debt (multiple times) and so I wanted to fight against the temptation and the best avenue for me was the budget. Good luck J.D. with the budget and look forward to hearing more about how your tracking of it goes!

  201. quinsy says 08 June 2009 at 06:56

    yay! I am excited to know where you will make your first charitable contribution.

  202. KC says 08 June 2009 at 07:00

    My husband and I have had a lot of extra income for the past few years. We’re loosely allocating it towards the mortgage and general savings for rainy day/old age/next car, etc. But it is hard for me to resist wants. My weaknesses are similar to your books, my hobby (baseball cards) and tennis shoes (I walk, run, and play a lot of tennis so they get used, but still…). But as I’ve gotten older and more used to the extra income I’ve realized I enjoy these indulgences, but don’t need them in the excess I think I do.

    You just come to realize there are more important things in life and there are lots of people out there with A LOT LESS than you and when I open my closet and see 6 pairs of tennis shoes and 4 pairs of running shoes I tell myself “Enough”.

    I think its very natural to have weaknesses, it doesn’t make you bad and it doesn’t mean you are overly susceptible to advertising or keeping up with the Joneses, it’s just normal to have weaknesses. But I think you’ll start to see that there are other things more important. If you must budget I would go with a percentage rather than a hard number.

  203. Mike says 08 June 2009 at 07:05

    I’ve found yodlee.com to be incredibly helpful in budgeting. It will automatically categorize all your spending and help you create a budget, based on your spending for up to the last six months.

  204. joe says 08 June 2009 at 07:10

    I’ve found that I only need to re-budget after a major cash flow event like a raise or new apartment.

    I just moved overseas and many shops don’t accept credit cards. I made a strict budget and transfer a set amount each pay period to local currency. I don’t keep track of categories, so if I spend less on groceries I can treat myself to something else. Cash is a great reminder for how much you really have left.

    It has it’s ups and downs, but keeping spending money separate from investment/saving money is a lifesaver.

  205. Matt says 08 June 2009 at 07:12

    On the subject of if your excesses should roll over or not: I believe the answer is “sometimes”, and it depends on if you’re likely to make up the difference in a later month or not.
    – Dining Out: if you don’t spend everything budgeted for the month, are you likely to eat out more than usual the next month? Probably not, so sweep excesses into a mid-longer term savings goal.
    – Books: if your purchases tend to come in bursts (you spend less than the budget one month, but more than the budget next month), then keep the overages and let them average out over multiple months.

    I tend to sweep out excess money from fixed categories like Eating Out and Groceries, where if I don’t use the money now, I’m not going to ever. But, for instance, I have a Tech category for feeding my nerd-needs. Last month, I bought a couple of $0.99 iPhone apps out of the $40 budgeted. But next month I may buy a $50 Wii game, so I’ll need the extra from prior months to make up for it.

  206. ts says 08 June 2009 at 07:14

    I agree that income and needs are pretty much ‘fixed’ and what we can play with are the wants and the savings categories. In my situation, I’m a ‘future’ while my husband is a ‘today’. So arguments about wants/savings are always a sore spot in our household.

    We don’t have any debt, and have goal of paying off our mortgage in 2 years time. My husband also wants to take our kids scuba diving in Florida 4 summers away(huge trip, huge trip!) I want to save for kids’ college funds(4 and 8 years away, respectively).

    My husband thinks that since we have retirement fund(16% of gross/month)I shouldn’t be uptight about spending. He would spend on a magazine here, a starbuck there, a pair of expensive shoes here, an electronic gadget there, just spending without a plan. After years of tension I implemented the Dave Ramsey spending budget 2 months ago and so far it has calm me down so much (Although I have written down every item I spent for 18 years I never categorized them). Now I just budget all the needs and savings for the whole household; then give my husband a set amount as his ‘blow money’. This way, he doesn’t feel that he works hard for no fun at all, and I get the peace of mind that we are livinf within our means.

    Glad to have found this site. Great discussion.

    TS

  207. Lucas Krech says 08 June 2009 at 07:26

    This is very close to the system I have been using for a while now. WRT tracking spending I use a spreadsheet. I actually use a spreadsheet to track all my spending and include my discretionary spending in there.

    As for the actual numbers I treat it something like this, the total amount of discretionary spending, in your case $750 is what I check against. Some months dining may be up others books, etc. So long as the *total* number is under, I feel OK. I basically hybridize a budget and a spending plan, taking the best elements of both.

    If in a given month my total is under, say in your case I spend $700 then I take that remaining $50 and put it in an online savings account specifically for discretionary spending. Essentially I treat it like a rollover plan with cellphone minutes.

    Assuming your general level of savings is high this is a fairly good route to take. If your savings are low, speaking to general public not you per se, then the extra cash may be better used going towards a general savings plan or debt reduction.

  208. Brett McKay says 08 June 2009 at 07:27

    I haven’t had a detailed budget in a while. The reason was I had some legal internships during the summer that filled my bank account with money. I really didn’t have to worry about where money was going to come from to pay for stuff because we had enough. Basically, I was lulled into a false sense of security. I didn’t spend it all, I still have money left over from last summer, but I’m sure I could have maximized it better if I had a budget.

    So this post was a nice kick in the pants to start one up. When I did have a budget, I’d look at every month and reevaluate it.

  209. Meghan says 08 June 2009 at 07:31

    You’ve written in the past about a desire to increase your gifts to charity, and I’m happy to see you’re finding a way to make that happen within the new budget. This might be a perfect opportunity to increase giving by a small percentage each month. Maybe an increase in giving could go hand in hand with the potential decrease in dining out you mentioned. There’s no better time than the “start” to make a great habit stick, especially when you’re so keenly aware of your own needs being met.

    In terms of keeping records, everything we spend goes into an excel spreadsheet. There are separate worksheets for each month, and a YTD sheet that pulls information from the monthly sheets. If we go just a little over/under, the YTD sheet takes those fluctuations into account. We reevaluate the budget when there’s a major change in income or spending priority.

  210. Meg says 08 June 2009 at 07:38

    I also use Mint.com to track my budget – it is a huge timesaver over the excel method I used to use. There is also an export to excel option AND an iphone app that is quite handy when I travel. The software is quite flexible and will text or email you if you go over budget or there are larger than usual debits (both of which can be tweaked to your own preferences).

  211. Oskar says 08 June 2009 at 07:40

    We have a budget but allow our selfs the freedom of an allownance with no specific purpose. That works for me some months this goes to entertainment or music other times to eating out etc etc. spending in each subcategori is different evey month but when the money spent there is no more until next month (actually it was very many months since there was none left at the end).
    Also when some money is left over we usually transfer it to the vacation fund or somethimes roll over if we know that next month is going to be costly.

    There are loads of thigs I want but since the thing I like the most are days with family i have put a price on them equivalent to one days total living expenses (all must and want) which is about 150$ for our family and then I value each piece of spending against this amount. A few weeks ago for example we really wanted a second car for the flexibility and had calculated that it would probably cost about 450$ in total per month. This was reasonable I though until i recacluated it and realized that this would translate to 3 days of living expenses every month = 36 days in only one year!!! So don’t just budget the money also budget what this money might buy you if you spend it on something else…..

  212. Chetwyn says 08 June 2009 at 07:55

    I started budgeting late last year, so I’m a newbie, too! Here’s what I’ve come up with so far:

    I use ooCalc (Openoffice’s version of Excel) to build and maintain my budget. This year, I’ve split the year into Thrids, and review/make adjustments after every Third. Next year I’m going to switch to quarterly.

    I track every penny I spend, and, each night, I take about 15 minutes to add what I have spent for the day to my spreadsheet using the method that Chris Wilson mentioned above (comment 22). In the “Spent” column, I’ll enter “=10+24+34” etc, so that I have a running total at all times of how much I have spent in a category. Since I don’t use the envelope system, this makes it easy for me to see how much money I have left in category. So, if I’m going to buy groceries, I open up my spreadsheet, take a look at my actual vs. budgeted, and have an idea of how much I can spend.

    In the beginning, I used to beat myself up if I went over in a specific category. Then I realized, that even though I was over-budget in one category, I still came in under-budget overall, so I started to take it easier on myself. Also, after reviewing the first Third of this year, I realized that even though I might have been over-budget in a specific category for one month, I was actually right on, or under-budget in that category for the Third. So, to answer your question, if I go over-budget in a category one month, I’ll just try to spend less in the following month.

    After reviewing the first Third of this year, I was also able to reduce my budgeted amounts in some categories, since, in those categories, I was under-budget substantially in every month.

    I’m still at a loss as to what to do with the money if I’m under-budget in a category. So far this year, I’ve split the amount 50/50: 50% to savings, 50% to debt-reduction. Lately, I’ve been wondering if I should roll it over to the next month instead to help cushion the months I might run over-budget in that category.

  213. Krista says 08 June 2009 at 07:56

    My first reaction is that it’s fabulous to make a budget, but you might want to amalgamate a couple of your categories together so that you’re not taking all of the fun out of your fun money.

    I’d definitely leave Clothing, Charity, Vacation and Dining out. But maybe put the books, comic books and misc. all into one larger category so you still feel like there’s freedom with this money.

    It’s definitely ok to borrow from one category to top up another (**vacation and charity being 2 notable exceptions) as long as you don’t go over in total. And as one of the previous posters said, check where you are halfway through the month, then you shouldn’t go over.

    As for going under – do whatever you like. Sweep it all into the vacation; sweep only half of it; or leave it put so that if you come across a limited edition Superman one day, you’ll be able to grab it!

  214. Seth says 08 June 2009 at 07:59

    For my budget I track everything in Excel. I setup an annual system, one worksheet for each month, then have running totals and various charts and graphs. What can I say, I’m a math nerd. It’s very flexible and powerful. I also track everything in jGnash (similar to Quicken). I know it’s overkill, but it works for me and I enjoy doing it!

  215. Jamie says 08 June 2009 at 08:02

    We reevaluate our budget and debt load every month. Our budget isn’t so much a budget, though, as it is a flow chart of living expenses and debt payments and the amounts we typically spend from month to month. I look it over every month to see where we can squeeze out more money.

  216. flipped4saving says 08 June 2009 at 08:06

    To keep track of spending in which category, I use pearbudget. Though it costs $3/month, its simplicity is really genius. Using their system, it doesn’t care if you paid by cash (envelopes)/check/debit card. Doing it online allows me to enter my income and expenditures at work or home. Every month you enter what your anticpated (then actual) income, and then your expenses as they occur. It works just like a monthly balance sheet.

    The other feature I like best is irregular expenses. It keeps track of what you set aside for say, auto repair. If you budget $100 for the month, and spend only $50, pearbudget carries over the remaining $50 to next month. Quite handy if you allocate a yearly amount for variable expenses that don’t occur every month.

    I really wanted to like neobudget, but it was too unwieldy for me. I’m very OCD and it took too much time to setup and implement to my satisfaction.

  217. Bill says 08 June 2009 at 08:27

    I’m on a Mac and MoneyWell is a fantastic app to mimic the envelope system (I’m not affiliated with them in any way). I use the debit card for everything and track everything through the app. I’m digging myself out of a huge amount of debt and this tool has really helped me make sure I’m not using any new debt as well as making sure I have the “cash” to pay for things before I buy them. Super easy to use.

  218. Luke says 08 June 2009 at 08:37

    JD,

    You’re talking right up my alley. I’m a big fan of budgeting, and I use the envelope method with NeoBudget. To answer some of your questions, when I underspend in an envelope, I carry the balance over to the next month. This helps me compensate for a month where I overspend.

    I track my budget once a week for about 15 minutes. I download my statement from my bank and import it into NeoBudget. As I import, I go through each transaction and split it across my envelopes.

    Voila! I’ve tracked my spending for the week. Once I got used to it, it’s pretty easy. I actually look forward to it each week.

  219. Amanda says 08 June 2009 at 08:43

    Budgets: I started with 6 months of expenses (I use my debit card for almost everything) and tracked where I spent stuff and created a budget from that, which I create annually and tweak when something impacts it (like saving to be in my sister’s wedding last month). I’ve been tracking since 2006, so I have a pretty good idea of how much I’m going to spend in each catagory.

    I roll over money from one month to the next – things like clothes I only buy a few times a year, but then I’ll need a good chunk of money for it.

    I’ll also pull from one ‘pile’ to the next. My gas pile will be pulled from when I get an oil change if I deplete my car repair pile. I try to pull from a related ‘pile’, but if not, I just snag from the highest balance.

    Good luck!

  220. Jennifer says 08 June 2009 at 08:47

    I have a similar sized ‘personal’ budget. My spending is not that regular on items to categorize. On payday, I automatically move $300 to my “big splurges” account, and any leftover goes to this account as well. I fix about $2000/year in splurges I plan on (eg, a trip), but then typically find that there’s a couple other larger things I want through the year that I can then afford.

    The one area where I feel I overspend for the utility I get is dining out / convenience store purchases, so I decided to make that the one thing I pay for with cash so that when the cash is gone, it’s done. I put $200 cash in my wallet for the month. Everything else I put on a CC that gets paid off monthly. If I was to ever have cash left from that $200, I would roll it into next month’s dining. So far that hasn’t happened.

    I track it online but then record the results in Excel.

  221. Todd @ The Personal Finance Playbook says 08 June 2009 at 08:49

    My wife and I are going through this same thing. I’ve been the only one earning income for the last couple years. Now, my wife is about to start her residency, where she’ll earn about 50k per year. The same month that happens, I’ll receive a raise of about 10k per year. So our income will increase by about 60k per year very soon. Having this knowledge has made it harder for us to make solid financial decisions! We’re going to revisit our budgetary and financial goals soon to talk about how to manage the additional money that’s going to be flowing through our hands.

  222. HollyP says 08 June 2009 at 08:49

    Excellent post. Thanks.

  223. Shawn says 08 June 2009 at 08:50

    This was interesting to read for me (I just started reading your blog in the last couple of weeks).

    My husband and I started with as detailed a budget as you have because discretionary spending was our big issue. What we did was set yearly goal for each category and then divide by 12 to get our monthly goals. Because we look at them as yearly goals anyhow we do carry over/dip into next months allotment if we have a significant purchase to make. This is of course made possible by having a small savings done for this purpose alone. Then we just make sure we are balanced come the end of the year so every month we look at where we are, and make adjustments to what we are spending if needed (not to the budget itself).

    One thing we need to be better on is travel budgeting. We took the stance of just putting more into short term savings then is recommended and using that for travel, but I think we need to start a travel fund specifically to keep that more in check.

    Another great post!

  224. Shawn says 08 June 2009 at 08:55

    We also use Mint.com. I find it works almost exactly how we need it since we never pay in cash, our credit card gives 1% of purchases to our mortgage principle so it makes sense to just use that and pay if off each pay check.

    The only issue is they don’t automatically do the rollover budgeting as I described in my first comment. So at the end of each month I have to adjust our budgets for the next month based on how we did that month. It is a bit annoying but in reality only takes me about 30 minutes a month, and the categorising only takes me about 15 minutes or so a week so all in all it is worth it for us.

  225. Marianne says 08 June 2009 at 09:00

    My boyfriend and I have an envelope system. We like to use our rewards creditcards, so our envelopes contain receipts only. We make a purchase, the receipt goes in the corresponding envelope and the runnig tally goes on the envelope. This way we know how much is left in each category and our receipts are safe in case we want to make an exchange or return. At the end of the month, we sort the receipts to keep or toss and start the next line on the envelope.

    We can move money around. We both bought flip flops and sunglasses and some clothing for the summer which burned our clothing/gifts category, but we’re coming in low for food and entertainment, so we’ll take money from there to even it out. Some things just cost more and as long as you spend less in another category, go for it. Any leftover goes to savings since we want to have a gargantuan downpayment for a house in a few years. We do it this way because our budget is roomy and we can always get what we need on it, so we don’t need more than is alloted generally.

    Have fun!

  226. reallysparkle says 08 June 2009 at 09:03

    I’m not one to judge… but $750 sounds like an awful lot to spend on wants if you were in debt until your late 30s-early 40s. What about retirement? You’ve lost about 20 years of the magic of compounding interest… if I were you I’d be a little more concerned about building up those retirement portfolios. I’m sure you are maxing out the 401-K (or whatever that account is called – we don’t have those here in Canada), but maybe you should sock away a bit more towards retirement… you can never have too much.

  227. Ryan says 08 June 2009 at 09:15

    reallysparkle:

    I’m not sure if I’m remembering this correctly, but I think JD mentioned in a previous post that the one good thing he had done when he was younger was save for retirement.

  228. Linden says 08 June 2009 at 09:25

    I use Quicken to track our budget (I’m using it anyway for tracking investments, so I’d rather just use one piece of software).

    We put together a budget yearly. Some categories have monthly targets (like eating out, groceries) and some have annual targets (like vacations, house maintenance). About halfway through the year we do a mid-year review and see how we’re doing so far (and move money between categories as needed). On a monthly basis, I only track the categories where we would tend to overspend (like entertainment, which includes eating out, and groceries). Anything left over at the end of the year is usually carried forward to the next year (although this year I’m considering putting it towards the mortgage).

    In general, I’ve found it more useful to have fewer categories. In your case, I might combine “books” and “comic books” and maybe even “entertainment” into a single category. For categories that tend to be sporadic throughout the year, like “clothing”, I might track it annually instead of monthly. Anything extra can be carried forward or directed to another category for the month.

    I’d agree with other commenters that putting more towards vacation is a good idea. Europe isn’t cheap, and once you’re there it’s better to have extra money (that you don’t spend and can apply towards a future vacation) than to have to skip seeing something you really want because you’re out of funds…

  229. retired says 08 June 2009 at 09:35

    Budgeting is exactly the way to plan. I have use Quicken for years. But with the age of my computer it is now obsolete and I must replace it here shortly. Along with the replacement will be the upgrading of programs. I discovered Quicken now has a free version on line I plan on looking into this instead of replacing my old version. If I had an I-phone, I-pod or other way of accessing the internet outside of my home I could keep a closer look at my spend on the go.

    They even have
    Free iPhone App Available!

    Money Management Tips

    20 Small Ways to Save Big

    Budgeting for Your Peace of Mind

    Stop Living Paycheck to Paycheck

    How to Save Money

    Live Debt Free

    More resorces to check out.

    This retired person has plenty to learn about the newer technologies.

    JD I think by allocating a certain amount for each category of spending you will find you will not spend it all each month. Right now you are celebrating the fact you have the ability to spend more. The celebration time has finished so you will settle down to a more normal awareness of what you can afford and what you really need to spend money on. My husbands comment when I spend money has always been “Do you need that?” I spend less with that statement in my mind.

  230. Ivy says 08 June 2009 at 09:35

    That’s a pretty detailed budget and it might be hard to track it through the month. If I were you, I’d do the following:

    * Have the charity contribution auto-withdrawn on the 1st so it’s done and out of the way.
    * Automatically put the vacation and clothing money in their own sub-accounts. You probably don’t randomly grab clothes but specifically go shopping for them. So just check your balance before you go.
    * Get the eating out, entertainment, and misc money in cash. There’s probably a lot of crossover here (a night out might be a movie with popcorn, dinner, parking, and so on) so I’d just keep it in cash and when you’re out, you’re out.
    * Track the book and comic purchases (from the store or Amazon) as you make them and shoot for within $5 of so. This keeps you from stressing out about pennies when you’re supposed to be enjoying a fun hobby.

    I’d roll any unused balances into the vacation fund except for clothing. Since quality items can be more than $50 and you probably don’t need to get new stuff every month you’ll want to build it up a bit. You might check this sub-account seasonally. For example, you just picked up summer clothing and a winter coat on sale — anything left over can go into the vacation fund and you’ll have some cash built up again by September for autumn stuff. With a kid, we go shopping quarterly (she just keeps growing) and my husband and I biannually.

    Our current budget after the bills, savings, and debt payments has three categories: food, transportation, and “stuff.”

  231. Geek says 08 June 2009 at 09:51

    I dunno I think you’re doing pretty well. I always feel like I’m using too much discretionary spending until I get to deposit some extra savings every 2-3 months or take a nice little vacation without dipping into vacation savings.

    The 20/30/50 plan doesn’t seem to take into account “house savings”, just retirement. Are house savings a need or a want?
    My split looks mostly like:discretionary 26%, needs 26%, savings 48% (post-tax income, doing some neat math with the 401k since it is taken out pre-tax). About half of my savings is for one big-ticket item.

    What about some budgeting posts for the advanced renters (no debt, saving for a house)? I can’t really garden in my apartment 🙂

    I have guest-post-series suggestions if you’re interested, although as you work full time on this blog I’d imagine you’ve thought of them.

  232. Chett says 08 June 2009 at 09:53

    I don’t agree that you can never have too much for retirement. I think this mindset is what leads many people to delay enjoying life to it’s fullest during their prime years, only to realize that all the money that was saved is almost useless when you feel your better years have passed you by. 3.5 million in the bank can’t help you with that problem.

    I’m not saying “blow it all while you’re young,” but for me there has to be some balance for now and later.

  233. Debbie M says 08 June 2009 at 10:11

    As you can see, there’s no one right set of answers for everyone. Here are my answers.

    How often do you re-evaluate your budget?
    I’ve been budgeting for a long time now, so I update mine every time I get a raise or my mortgage changes. And I’d say I make another big change about once every year or two such as when I decided I wanted to renovate my house or when I realized my current car was costing more to maintain than my previous car. Normally, I’d expect novice budgeters to adjust their budget monthly as they learned more about themselves, but since your budget is based on knowledge of your actual spending habits, you might not need to. Any time you notice that you wish you had more in one area or are not spending as much as you thought you would in another area, that’s a good time to update your budget.

    If you go over budget for a month, what do you do?
    I keep a running total of how much I have to spend in each category. If I go over, my total in that category is negative. So long as my overall total for all the categories is still positive, I’m good with that. I consider that to be borrowing from one category to fund another. I don’t charge myself interest, but that might be interesting! When my car-fixing category was negative for a full year, that’s when I realized I should have been budgeting more all along, so I updated my budget.

    What if you go under budget in a category?
    Going under in a category lets me save for things in that category that are too expensive to get with just one month’s worth of savings. For example, if there’s a big comic book sale and you can get four things you’ve been wanting in one week, but it still comes to over $50, then that’s okay if you’ve been going under for a while. If it gets swept clean at the end of the month, you may be tempted to go shopping before that happens! Some categories, such as my vacation fund and repair funds, I usually go under. (And meanwhile, that money is available to loan to another category.) If you find yourself wishing the money went to saving or charity, then after a while you might want to reduce the categories you usually go under budget and increase your savings or charity category.

    How do you track your spending against the budget?
    For my budget categories like yours, I created a thing that looks just like a checkbook register and I actually paperclip it to my checkbook register. I have a separate column for each category with the total amount I’m allowed at the top and subtract what I spend in each category. Then I have a total category at the side. (For the longer-term ones like car expenses, I just circle any relevant entries in my checkbook (which is where I keep track of both checks and credit card purchases) and subtract them monthly from my spreadsheet at the same time I add the next month’s amount).

    Do you try to further reduce spending on these categories?
    Sometimes. The category I’m working on now is groceries. I also keep a very close eye on eating out. Mostly I just try not to buy stuff unless I need or really want it and I try to keep an eye out for cheaper ways to do the things I need and want to do.

  234. a conscience life says 08 June 2009 at 10:21

    Instead of a financial budget (ie. making sure you are spending the right amount of money each month) why not have a enjoyment budget (ie. making sure that you maximize the enjoyment you get from your purchases)? This is the approach that my wife and I have taken to our finances. We keep track of all of our spending to the penny (just finished our first year of this last month!) and at the end of the month we evaluate what we spent and how much pleasure we got from it. This amounts to basically the approach espoused by “your money or you life” and it works well for us. We are able to save about 30% of our money every month AND we have a great time doing it. I hate to blatantly advertise for myself (but it seems pretty on topic), but I actually just finished reviewing the year of purchasing over at my blog, if people are interested.

    Anyway, to answer your questions…

    1) We evaluate our *spending* (since we have no budget) monthly. The most important question we ask is “Did we get the amount of enjoyment out of this that we anticipated?” Then we ask “would it be worth it to spend more or less on this in the future?” This approach works surprisingly well for us.

    2) Well, since we don’t have a budget, we mostly just keep an eye out for increases (or decreases) in spending and make sure that we increased the spending for a good reason (like we enjoyed it).

    3) We save a set amount for retirement every month. All the extra ‘leftover’ money goes into a sort of slush fund, which we can use for whatever we want — donating to charity, going on vacation, paying to bring friends along on our vacations, taking people out for dinner, etc. I think that it is *VERY* important to not insist you spend the money on a particular thing, as this just forces you to spend money, even if there is nothing that you actually want to buy. (this is why I don’t like budgets — they often imply a spending minimum in addition to the maximum)

    4) By law, I think that businesses are required to give you a receipt (if you ask) when you buy something from them. So collecting your receipts works well for this. Basically, I go though my receipts every day, at the end of they day, and write them down. Also, I make sure that I have a small scrap of paper in my wallet to write down money that I spend by giving it to a friend (basically, i make my own receipts for this).

    5) As stated above, I just try to make sure that I am getting my ‘money’s worth’ on my purchases. For each person, there is an amount of cash that is appropriate for spending on each type of thing. Just try to make sure you are where *you* want to be. The only person that can answer this for you, is you.

    Good luck with the budget, man. I really mean that. If it works for you, then super!

  235. Brian says 08 June 2009 at 10:23

    JD, you’ve previously discussed the plan from the book Your Money or Your Life. Do you plan to evaluate the purchases that you make in your “wants” budget against the “three questions” from that plan each month? Have you abandoned the YMOYL plan for the 50/30/20 plan you mention in this post? Meshed them together?

  236. Bargain babe says 08 June 2009 at 10:37

    JD, I had no idea you didn’t budget – I’m shocked! But I’m impressed you were able to manage your money so well without one. I suspect you were budgeting unofficially. 🙂 Anyway, thanks for checking out my budgeting system, which has cut down my spending by thousands of dollars each month. Good luck with yours! I trust you’ll share your experiences with budgeting on GRS.
    Julia
    aka Bargain Babe

  237. J.D. says 08 June 2009 at 10:37

    @Brian (#58)
    While I’ve mentioned YMoYL many times and it has had a huge influence on me, I never actually adopted any particular part of its plan. Maybe I should. I embraced the attitude and philosophy, but not the plan. In fact, the only plan that I’ve ever really followed is the Balanced Money Formula I bring up all of the time. 🙂

  238. Mike H says 08 June 2009 at 10:47

    JD, I’ve read with interest your mentioning of charitable giving, as well as the comments above on that topic.

    My wife and I have found it helpful to put our charitable giving in as a standard line item in our budget. In our case, we do a comprehensive budget accounting for all expenses (including charity, taxes, wants, needs, etc.).

    As Christians, we’ve chosen to set aside a percentage of our pre-tax income for giving to our church, as well as another percentage for other charitable giving. This allows us to “automatically” keep our giving at the percentage level we believe God is calling us to no matter what happens to our actual income level (in dollar amounts), tax rates, etc.

    I hope this suggestion is helpful to others trying to sort out a budget including a charitable giving component.

  239. sandi_k says 08 June 2009 at 11:05

    ** How often do you re-evaluate your budget? Do you make monthly adjustments? Quarterly? Yearly?

    I re-evaluate whenever something changes. I have a “basic budget” that is annual, based on income and tax withholding. But I do change allocations more frequently than once a year. For example, a couple of years ago, we we not withholding enough in taxes. I changed my federal tax deduction, and had to adjust my spending.

    I also re-work it based on financial goals. This year, my goal was to max out my 403(b) — something I’d never done before. I was on disability for the first two months of the year, so that meant I had to set aside ~ $1600 per month from March-December. And that increase changed my tax bill, for both state and federal. So that got-reworked in March, and then again in April when the fed changed the withholding schedules!

    Finally, this last month, I paid off my car. The new “discretionary money” is getting re-allocated to savings, since I want to pay a LARGE portion of the next car purchase in cash.

    The budget was adjusted in all of these circumstances — so almost MONTHLY. I think it’s a mistake to think each month will be the same.

    ** If you go over budget for a month, what do you do? Do you make immediate adjustments? Or do you simply try to correct things the following month?

    One way I limit this is to pay everything I plan on at the first of the month. I also take out ~ $250 in cash — and this is my “fun” money allowance. It’s amazing how quickly I start to say “no” when the cash starts dwindling.

    I did have an unexpected expense in April, when I replaced the windshield on my car. I didn’t want to remove the money from savings, so I used the credit card, and reduced my savings contributions for that month. That way, there’s no new debt, but there’s a little less in added savings for the month.

    I find that the mindset of NOT USING a credit card is helping a lot — I don’t have an unexpectedly high bill at the end of the month, when I adjust immediately. Over budget, for me, usually involves whipping out the credit card. So I avoid it.

    ** What if I go under budget in a category? Does that mean I get to carry that money into the next month? Can I use it for a different Want category? (Perhaps sweep anything extra into the Vacation fund?) Or does does that money go to Saving instead? Or should I donate it to charity?

    For me, it depends. I’ve already done the charitable donation, so that’s good.

    If it’s auto care, I carry it forward. If it’s books or entertainment, I sweep the unspent funds into savings. I’m averaging ~ $100-$200 a month in unspent money, and sweeping into savings at both the FIRST of the month (planned) and at the END of the month (unspent funds) has TURBO BOOSTED my savings.

    ** Do you track your spending against the budget? If I used the envelope system, I’d allocate the actual cash to each account before-hand. But what if I don’t want to have that much cash around the house? Is there a good way to keep track of current spending in each category? Should I carry a notecard with my monthly spending on it?

    See, for my $250 in cash spending, I don’t track it. It’s entirely discretionary for me.

    If I use the debit card, I can track it. If I use the credit card, I can track it. But cash? I don’t really care if I bought McDonald’s for lunch, or a used paperback. By paying for all the budgeted categories right at the beginning of the month, the artificial limit of cash keeps the rest of the spending in reasonable territory…

    ** Do you try to further reduce spending on these categories? For example, should I try to drop my budget for Dining Out even more?

    If you’re uncomfortable with it, YES! This is where tracking is useful. We have a separate budget for Eating Out, Groceries, and Costco/Beverages & More. I shop with a calculator. But I find that we’re averaging ~ $450 per month on eating out this year. (And that doesn’t include dining out when we’re traveling!) That’s too much.

    So I am working to get my husband’s agreement for us to use cash for Eating Out, rather than the credit card. I *know* that will make a difference.

    I am glad you’re thinking of a spending plan — I find that I hit my goals when I’m aiming for them. 

  240. Sandy E. says 08 June 2009 at 11:10

    Set it up automatically with subaccounts so that X amount is deposited into each at the beginning of the month. I’ve done this and there’s no charge to having additional savings accounts at my online bank.

    So one subaccount could be 1) Charitable contributions, another 2) Entertainment & Dining, another 3) Hobbies, and the last 4) Travel. How much do you guess a Europe trip would cost? You want to do that in one year? Divide by 12 and have that amount automatically deposited into your Travel Fund. Do it for 18 months or a year and a half if the 12 month payments are too much. Maybe you could afford a Europe trip every year!! (Run the numbers).

    I do this w/my Hawaii trips & it works out well, and I know that spending on my hobbies won’t cut into that Travel fund either. A plan turns a dream into a goal. Don’t squander your money on things you don’t value or care about or that aren’t important to you. Use your money to make your life the way you want it to be. It’s supposed to be used to make life better. Set up your discretionary cash flow automatically. It’s fun seeing those subaccounts build, just as it’s fun to use money from one, knowing it won’t take away from other things you value.

  241. Canadian Dream says 08 June 2009 at 11:31

    Oh, that is funny. I just wrote a post on why budgets fail. Take a read as it covers some of your concerns.

    http://blog.canadian-dream-free-at-45.com/2009/06/08/why-your-budget-fails/

    In general the MISC section is the key. You need some float for those up and down months. Then if after a few months you end up with a bit of a surplus move it over the savings.

    Best of luck,
    Tim

  242. K says 08 June 2009 at 11:46

    WRT what to do with “leftover” money, for me it depends on the category. I sweep most of it into vacation savings, but there are some categories where my spending varies widely from month to month. Gifts are one good example. I spend most of that money in the month or so before Christmas and in late February or early March, because a big clump of family birthdays happen around then. So if I swept that money into savings every month I would hit November and have $40 total spend on my husband, parents, brother, and neices and nephews! So I let the money in that category grow from month to month, minus whatever I spend on the odd wedding or graduation present.

    Ditto my running expenses. Every four or five months I replace my running shoes, which may run between $80-$125 depending on what I get, and because I live where it is very cold and icy in the winter, most of my race entry fees are for races in May-October. If I swept that money into savings every month, I’d never have enough to replace my shoes and would have to cut back a lot on races.

    Most categories I sweep, but it really depends on what the category is and whether you are budgeting for truly monthly expenses or whether you are essentially prorating annual expenses.

  243. bethh says 08 June 2009 at 11:57

    I’m looking forward to updates on this. I suspect, JD, that you shop a bit more than you used to because a) you can “afford” it and b) working at home makes the outer world seem so shiny and appealing.. which often leads to spending money! My particular bugaboo is dropping into the grocery store and coming out with unhealthy and unplanned-for items.

    Anyway, I suppose you already have some money set aside for your trip, but even if you’re saving for half your trip, 200/month seems low to me. Remember: too much money saved for travel = more trips!

    For reference, I just spent 3 weeks in Ireland & Scotland, and spent $3440. That’s all plane tickets, shared rental cars & gas, rail pass, meals, two carefully selected souvenirs, and lodging. I kept my lodging expenses at $45/night by sharing my room (I swapped out travel companions a few times) and staying in relatively inexpensive places. That also covers a wedding gift and some paperback books at the end of the trip. I could’ve done it for less, I think, but could definitely have paid a LOT more.

    edited to add: I just remembered you work in a little office now.. I wonder if that’ll change anything?

  244. Ann says 08 June 2009 at 11:58

    Since I’ve been tracking my spending since 1995 (or at least my spreadsheet goes back that far), I can set up a pretty stable budget that requires minor tweaking once a quarter.

    I’m a bit of a finance freak, so I track my budget daily. It’s not as bad as it sounds since checking up on my budget and incurred expenses takes five minutes or less. Since I record every financial transaction I make by the end of the day, I can check my budget using two views: (1) a monthly view that tells me how much I’m spending for the month-to-date and compare it against the month-to-date budgeted amount for that category and (2) a year-to-date view that compares my spending with prior years back to 2002 (going back to 1995 would’ve been overkill).

    (BTW, the above is all doable in Excel. No need to fork over money for Quicken or other finance software.)

    If I’m over my budget for the month, 99% of the time, the budget doesn’t get adjusted. I just cut back the following month(s) until I’m back on track.

    If I’m under my budget for the month, it gets carried over to the next month until Dec 31, at which point I write a big cheque to prepay my mortgage.

    EDITED because I’m distracted by the Apple WWDC.

  245. brooklynchick says 08 June 2009 at 12:03

    So glad you are having some fun with your money. Love the Warren formula. I wouldn’t aim to lower these numbers if I were you – the point of the formula is to enjoy your money if you can afford it. I would roll extra into charity or a “treat” like a nice bottle of wine.

    One thing you might do is also contribute monthly to an account, NOT KNOWING WHAT ITS FOR! I have started doing this, and its quite fun. I think when I have anough it will be for a new PC (mine died), but when I opened it I set a monthly auto-contribution and figured something would come up! If my computer hadn’t died it could have gone for a trip…but I think of it like a “positive” emergency fund. If someone called and said – “We have an extra room in our vacation house – can you buy a plane ticket to get here?” that money would be there!

  246. Heather says 08 June 2009 at 12:26

    This is a great discussion. I use Mint.com like a previous poster as well, and it’s useful for me to see how I’m doing within the month, because it has a little green line that tells you where you should be within the month. I give myself approximations of what I should be spending. If I’m over in 1 area for a month, that’s okay.

    Proof of the success: I got out of college almost exactly 1 year ago, so I’ve had a job for the past year. I learned this past weekend that throughout the year, I’ve managed to save about a 1/4 of my $25,000 income. Yay!

  247. Leanne says 08 June 2009 at 12:28

    I second the earlier recommendation of pearbudget. I like it because:

    *I can set up as many accounts as I want, and categorize them as I want (ie, 8 accounts under “transportation” for things like “oil changes” or “new car” or “bus passes” or “bike” so that I can have one account at ING for “transportation,” but I always know how much money I have available to spend on major service for the car or bike goodies… and if I have to overspend on an unexpected major service, I know I’m still golden because I have a bit of a cushion from the other sub-categories.)

    *Once I’ve created a budget, the numbers transfer over from one month to the next and reflect your most current thinking on that budget category and they’re very easy to adjsut

    *the irregular categories allow you to accumulate funds in that account from month to month; I can see that I’m progressing toward a particular goal ($1000 for a vacation) and if I don’t spend all of it, I can decide to either maintain the balance for a future expense (my next big vacation) or sweep it into a different category (new car).

    *I input receipts every week or so, and it is super easy to review my spending, so I’m always able to keep tabs on how the budget is holding up with just a quick glance. If I’ve overspent on eating out, I can decide immediately whether I want to shift some of the book allocation to the dining out category, or plan to make it up next month. (That said, I think it’s usually best to make adjustments right away, because putting it off until “next month” is a bit too much like carrying a balance on your credit card… and you need to make sure that your overall $750 is all that’s getting spent, not closer to $800 or $850!)

    *It includes a nifty feature where you can print out your current available budget–so even if you’re not “forcing” yourself to stick to the cash you have on-hand, you can still see quickly and easily while you’re out how much money you have available in a particular budget area.

    *They’ve been nicely responsive on the customer service side of things, incorporating suggestions from users and available to answer questions. (When have you ever been able to say that about something like Quicken??)

    All in all, I think that having a budget for your wants is probably pretty similar to your spending plan–just on a smaller, more targeted scale. And if you’re tracking it over time, you can see that maybe you aren’t actually spending $50/month on books after all–maybe it’s closer to $35 or $40. So either you can splurge on the gorgeous coffee-table comics collection that costs a ton of money, or you can sweep the extra into your travel plans and adjust the spending in that category down.

  248. chiefcaba says 08 June 2009 at 12:42

    – How often do you re-evaluate your budget?

    Monthly. Income, fixed costs and even variable fixed costs (gas, etc.) don’t change very often but what I’m focused on saving for or my “fun fund” change frequently.

    – If you go over budget for a month, what do you do? Do you make immediate adjustments? Or do you simply try to correct things the following month?

    Emergency funds are great but I’m a firm believer that once you have one of those the next best thing you can have is an “Ouch / Planned Expenses” fund. You can keep this at whatever level you think is necessary, for me, I like to keep it at $1000 dollars. This covers planned expenses for me like Village Stickers, XBOX Live Accounts (anything I have listed in my Yearly Planned Expenses tab) and also covers they “Those new brakes cost HOW much?” I don’t want to tediously budget for every sporadic event but I don’t want to feel like I’m pulling from retirement savings or my emergency funds to pay for an XBOX account so before saving for anything fun I make sure my “Ouch” fund is at $1000.

    – What if I go under budget in a category? Does that mean I get to carry that money into the next month? Can I use it for a different Want category? (Perhaps sweep anything extra into the Vacation fund?) Or does does that money go to Saving instead? Or should I donate it to charity?

    To be honest I find categories horribly limiting and very frustrating. My discretionary spending (after fixed / semi-fixed costs and necessary saving – retirement, school payments, emergency fund) is divided into only three categories.

    “Necessary Purchases” for me $100
    “Free Spending” for me $250
    “Savings” for me $275 (this number is what was left after my being alive costs and the above two categories – when I get a raise it grows :)).

    If I have a pair of jeans that rips apart and I buy a new pair it comes out of the Necessary Purchases category. If I run out of paper towels, Necessary Purchases. If, however, I see a cool leather coat I want but don’t need; Free Spending. Starbucks or dining out, Free Spending. Every cent that I don’t use rolls into the discretionary Savings category. That savings money is used for whatever I want since I’ve already taken care of my expenses so for me right now it is split between “Computer Fund”, “New car Fund” and “California Trip!”.

    – How do you track your spending against the budget?

    I hate cash and I’m horrible with it. If I have 10 dollars in my pocket it’s as good as gone. I do much better with money in the bank and a credit card. That said I treat my credit card like a checkbook not like a cash advance. I never put something on my credit card I do not have the money to pay for today. And I also keep a “Credit Card Register” in Excel right next to my budget and savings for the month. Every other day or so I open up my online account and transfer the data to my excel spreadsheet that tracks the Date, Category, Details, Cost. I do the same with my checking account.

    This may not work for a lot of people on this site as I know some people aren’t good with credit cards but to be honest until I started reading this website it *never* occurred to me I could charge something I couldn’t pay for at the end of the month. I guess I just got lucky on the brain wiring there :).

    – Do you try to further reduce spending on these categories? For example, should I try to drop my budget for Dining Out even more?

    Pick a number you are comfortable losing every month. Think of it this way JD, if you walked into a casino and up to a Craps table and put $750 down on a 6 and rolled the dice… other than the obvious distaste you probably have for throwing that amount of money away… can you live with the consequences? If not, then figure out why. Do you have another goal that is more important to you then spending money on arbitrary splurges? If you do, say that trip to Europe, then lower the amount you leave available for splurging and increase the amount that you are saving for something *meaningful* to you. Personally, to me, dining out can be very meaningful to me because my boyfriend and I enjoy it and we get to spend time together and we both hate to cook! As long as I have the money I have no regrets putting down $50 dollars on a dinner somewhere new to try or having a nice night at our favorite place.

    Sorry for the TLDR!

    Oh, and if anyone wants to see an example of my budget just let me know I’m sure my description of it wasn’t that great. 🙂

  249. Laura [What I Like] says 08 June 2009 at 13:06

    I find it difficult to get that granular. I just take out a set amount of cash from the ATM each week (you can do it bi-weekly, monthly, whatever works for you). That is my discretionary spending for the week and that way I don’t have to worry about what I’m spending it on. If I run out, then I just don’t spend any money for a couple of days. That is about as close to a workable budget that I can get to, but it works well for me.

  250. Sara says 08 June 2009 at 13:08

    I use Excel for my budget, with a setup similar to what a couple of others described above (one sheet per month, and one sheet with a year-to-date overview). I use a rewards credit card whenever possible — I hate using cash — and whenever I make a purchase, I simply bring the receipt home and enter the information on my spreadsheet.

    I find it easiest to budget on a monthly basis, but since some expenses can vary wildly from month to month, I look at my progress based on the whole year — in other words, I do carry over unused money if I go under budget. Likewise, if I go over budget in a category one month, I can make up for it by going under budget the next month.

    Any money I don’t spend just accumulates as savings. I budget based on my base salary, but I work a lot of overtime, so pretty much all of my overtime and bonus money goes into savings. I don’t have my savings earmarked for a specific purpose like a vacation or car (well, except retirement, but I actually budget for and track my retirement savings as money spent), but if I’m considering a big-ticket purchase like furniture or facing an unexpected but unavoidable expense that will put me over my year’s budget in one category, I have enough savings to cover it.

    I do a pretty thorough evaluation of my budget at the beginning of each year by looking at the previous year’s spending. I can see from my spreadsheet if I consistently go over or under budget in any given category, and reallocate my funds accordingly. But I also look at my total spending at the end of each month, and I will make changes mid-year if I need to.

    I’m sure this makes me a huge dork, but I actually kind of enjoy playing with numbers in Excel, and having a budget challenges and motivates me to keep my spending in check. I find it rewarding to see, in concrete numbers, how much I’m saving. It also gives me peace of mind to know exactly where my money is going and where I stand financially at any given time.

  251. ts says 08 June 2009 at 13:30

    If your spouse is never on the same page as you comes to budgeting, how do you deal with it?

  252. miles ercolani says 08 June 2009 at 15:09

    Though not really in the spirit of the post I was just curious which comic books you are interested in?

  253. Meg from FruWiki says 08 June 2009 at 16:13

    My husband and I have a joint account for regular household expenses, food, gas, etc. and then we each get an allowance into our personal checking accounts that we can use however we want. Even though we still consult each other about most purchases, it’s nice to have dedicated “fun” money — even though we often “donate” extra amounts back into the joint account to help pay down our debt quicker.

    We don’t budget either our joint or personal accounts strictly, just try to trim regular expenses (which we keep a list of on a spreadsheet) and keep an eye on all our account balances (which we also track on a spreadsheet every two weeks now). And it’s working great for us! We’re going in the right direction every month, even despite some hardships, and we’re even picking up more steam.

  254. Lisa says 08 June 2009 at 18:22

    I have a question about groceries. While one would think this would go in the category of ‘needs,’ I haven’t found it to be so. When I was unemployed the last three months I cut way back on everything… and found my grocery bill rose noticeably. It turns out I was buying a few extra things here and there at the store (nice cheese, bottle of wine, good type of olive oil), and justifying it to myself that it was because I was eating in instead of out. It was the one splurge I was ‘allowing myself’, but I’ve found this varying level of grocery spending to wreak havoc on my budget.

  255. Garrett says 08 June 2009 at 18:43

    JD, you should really check out Mvelopes (www.mvelopes.com). It completely changed the way I think about money, budgeting, and saving. Unfortunately, it isn’t free, but it’s well worth the ~$8/month. Also, I think there’s a one month free trial.

    * How often do you re-evaluate your budget? Do you make monthly adjustments? Quarterly? Yearly?
    – Monthly, though I spend 5 minutes every 3 or 4 days filing my transactions on the web site. At the end of each month, I reevaluate and adjust my spending plan before the funding my envelopes for the following month (20 minutes).

    * If you go over budget for a month, what do you do? Do you make immediate adjustments? Or do you simply try to correct things the following month?
    – I try to spread money around from the current month so that I don’t have to borrow from my money for the next month or dip into savings. For example, If I go $20 over on my food envelope, I’ll move $20 from my discretionary Electronics envelope to make up for it. It just means I’ll have to wait that much longer to get that video game.

    * What if I go under budget in a category? Does that mean I get to carry that money into the next month? Can I use it for a different Want category? (Perhaps sweep anything extra into the Vacation fund?) Or does does that money go to Saving instead? Or should I donate it to charity?
    – Some categories carry over, like the car maintenance envelope or the previously mentioned Electronics envelope. Others, like food, gas, and entertainment I sweep into savings at the end of each month.

    * How do you track your spending against the budget? If I used the envelope system, I’d allocate the actual cash to each account before-hand. But what if I don’t want to have that much cash around the house? Is there a good way to keep track of current spending in each category? Should I carry a notecard with my monthly spending on it? (That seems to be what Bargain Babe recommends.)
    – As I mentioned earlier, I use Mvelopes. The convenience and automatic transaction downloading is totally worth the money. I tried Mint for a while. The graphs are pretty, but the budgeting sucks. Also, taking out cash each month seems pretty ridiculous to me. Be easy on yourself, use a tool that was built for the job. Mvelopes also handles credit card transactions pretty transparently, meaning you don’t have to budget for paying off your credit card if you don’t carry a balance. That never made sense to me.

    * Do you try to further reduce spending on these categories? For example, should I try to drop my budget for Dining Out even more?
    – It’s hard for me to comment on this since everyone has a different situation and different priorities. But it sounds like you and I have similar income levels, and I spend about $250 a month dining out. $350 total for food.

    Other suggestions:
    – Use zero-balance budgeting. Allocate ALL of your income, whether it be to savings, rent, etc. This puts the pinch on you. If the “extra” is allocated to savings, then you know it isn’t there as a safety net if you go over budget. This was a problem for me at first.
    – Don’t have a “Miscellaneous” or a “Cash” category. That’s just lazy. And also a slippery slope.

  256. Attagirl says 08 June 2009 at 19:19

    I finally started using a budget last year and it made it possible for me to have an emergency fund (halfway there!) I tweak the budget a little monthly, mostly because it’s still new – just over a year. At about the same time I found a product that is used in place of the checkbook register. I <3 my checkbook. I’m old-school that way. Anyway, the register pages open out sideways and your budget categories are columns. It’s online at budgetmap.com although you could make one. Basically, it’s a spreadsheet. I tried Mint, but it never could connect to my ING account and one other. So that wasn’t useful to me (might work for you).

    More importantly, I need something that I update every time I buy something. If I have to go back and make a computer input later that night, it’s too late – I could easily have gone over budget. It has to be in my pocket or in my purse – if it’s back home or if I have to update it after the fact, it won’t get done. I think you have to know yourself in that regard. I realize I could use a smartphone app, but I don’t want to start spending that kind of money on my cell phone and usage. Easier for me to just write it down and subtract it out.

    edited to add:

    I just this coming month changed my accounts to use the “fictional employer” you’ve mentioned another poster using. In this way, my direct deposit goes to ING and I get paid twice monthly by having money transferred to my old bank from ING (not every two weeks, as I am in real life by my real employer). The goal here is to have all extra monies automatically saved in my online emergency fund and keep me in budget with less hoo haw. This will automatically save the entire two extra checks I get a year too. I have high hopes for this.

  257. Kevin says 08 June 2009 at 19:24

    Did the Mini open the floodgates for you?

    I took a look at my first year of finances to compare to the 50%/30%/20% budget. Here were my stats:

    Needs: 47.4%
    Wants: 6%
    Savings: 46.6%

    I include cable in the needs category, so that would raise the wants by 1% if you classified it differently. The surprising thing for me is that it seems like I spend a lot on wants already!

    * How often do you re-evaluate your budget?
    I don’t have a quota, but if one of my expenses changes, I update the budget.

    * If you go over budget for a month, what do you do?
    I have budgeted now for 12 months. I went over 1 month. I made no adjustments because it was a month I went on vacation.

    * What if I go under budget in a category?
    I don’t worry about it. I usually end up saving it. I think if you start adding it on to the next month you stand on a slippery slope.

    * How do you track your spending against the budget?
    I just open up my spreadsheet every few days and enter any spending. Each cost has a category. I can then pivot the spreadsheet to get a quick breakdown of costs if I choose.

    * Do you try to further reduce spending on these categories?
    Only if you are spending more than you budgeted!

  258. Meg from FruWiki says 08 June 2009 at 19:29

    @Kevin

    I hope this doesn’t sound anyway insulting, because it is meant as a sincere question, but why do so many people — even (and maybe especially) people who are not doing well financially — put cable/satellite in the “needs” category? I really don’t understand it!

    My husband and I grew up without cable. He didn’t watch any t.v. in college, nor did either of us the first year or so of our marriage. We had cable for a few years, but finally got rid of it last December because we saw it as a very unnecessary expense, especially since we can get DVDs from the library for free and watch so many things online! We don’t even have televisions anymore — despite the fact that we could have picked up plenty of stations via antenna.

    So, a want? Yes. A need? Not even close, imho.

  259. Ryan says 08 June 2009 at 19:33

    * How often do you re-evaluate your budget? Do you make monthly adjustments? Quarterly? Yearly?
    — Monthly
    * If you go over budget for a month, what do you do? Do you make immediate adjustments? Or do you simply try to correct things the following month?
    — I track it in Excel and update the budget for the next month if appropriate. I also track these budgets in Mint and I can easily see where I go over or am short for a budget.
    * What if I go under budget in a category? Does that mean I get to carry that money into the next month? Can I use it for a different Want category? (Perhaps sweep anything extra into the Vacation fund?) Or does does that money go to Saving instead? Or should I donate it to charity?
    — I’ve been sweeping some of these into ING savings accounts / some remain in checking to help off set future overages and save for larger purchases or expenses.
    * How do you track your spending against the budget? If I used the envelope system, I’d allocate the actual cash to each account before-hand. But what if I don’t want to have that much cash around the house? Is there a good way to keep track of current spending in each category? Should I carry a notecard with my monthly spending on it? (That seems to be what Bargain Babe recommends.)
    — I use Mint, when I use cash I take notes and enter it in Mint later.
    * Do you try to further reduce spending on these categories? For example, should I try to drop my budget for Dining Out even more?
    — I do, especially if the budget is short for several months or if it is something I feel we spend to much on. Since I have savings, save my overages, etc., if I go over budget in a category it never breaks me. This lets me direct lots of money to savings and investments over time. I review the overages, subtract the under runs and direct the remainder to my savings accounts. My spending categories have gotten a bit granular over time so some of the direction to savings is subjective at this point. I.E. under runs in “eating out” might go to “baby supplies” savings account, etc.

    I made a spreadsheet to model the budget. I track the total income, divide by 50% needs, 30% wants, 20% saves. Each division then breaks down into spending category, monthly budget, and category mapping to Mint. I also include notes and some other calculations to track progress… Each month I copy the sheet, make adjustments, relabel it, and update Mint for that month’s budget tracking.

    Hope this helps.
    -R

  260. Kevin says 08 June 2009 at 19:33

    Hi Meg,

    Your comment was not insulting at all, so no worries.

    I agree with you that cable is not a “need” in any sense. For whatever reason, I instantly related “need” to fixed expenses. I don’t need to pay for an apartment or utilities or any of that stuff really…I could go live outside.

    There are a million different ways to classify things in your personal budget, and I think this example speaks to that.

  261. Meg from FruWiki says 08 June 2009 at 19:38

    @Kevin

    I think we can put shelter under “need” — though I think it’s safe to say, as you point out, that there are many kinds of “shelter” and that one doesn’t need much.

    And as you said, “needs” vary. I consider AC a need here in Florida, lol — but then I am very heat sensitive and things start growing indoors when the humidity stays high.

  262. Maharani says 08 June 2009 at 19:41

    Ive been budgeting for about 5 years, and it has allowed me to pay off ~$19K in debt and buy a condo, 10% down, some renovation (paid for with cash). I use a version of the envelope method. I don’t actually have envelopes full of cash, but every month make out a large envelope with all bills to be paid, and all other monthly goals listed: condo savings, debt, other and so forth. I tick bills off as I pay them and keep the month’s paperwork in the envelope, where I can get hold of it if I need it. Since buying the condo I’ve set up a zero based budget and am now tracking things in more detail. This has helped me see where I overspend and I am now saving even more $$ than I was before! I am using it to set and implement long term savings goals. I get paid twice a month. I usually have money left over at the end of each pay period and move it into savings right away. My main goal at the moment is to beef up my Emergency Fund and to finance some more fixups at my condo. I evaluate my budget periodically and fine tune. the important thing in my view is to have concrete goals, otherwise nothing gets done.

    Re discretionary spending, I take out $40 a paycheck for lunches and misc expenses , but my job is so busy and pressured that I dont have time for shopping, and anyway do not enjoy it. I get far more pleasure budgeting for goals than frittering away $ on junk. Books are about the only thing I buy a lot of at this point and I am a homebody. My other recreational expense is entertaining-I budget for it.

  263. S01 says 08 June 2009 at 20:26

    @ Questions 🙂
    I run slightly differently to the comments above:

    Calculate the yearly (Financial year) expenses for known’s each year, car rego, electricity, Gas, House rates, insurances etc.

    For each of the above I work out the fortnightly amount that needs to be paid + 3% inflation, on payday those amounts are automatically sent to the required companies, whether or not I’ve received a bill. When I receive a bill it’s normal for the account to be in credit or a very small balance due. I save each bill for the year and re-adjust/review for the following year. Some companies will now do the above for you automatically and you simply pay them X per fortnight and you receive a statement if you go to far into credit/debt.

    Car services/maintenance and House maintenance just accumulate in a separate savings account at any time I can calculate how much each has.

    Investment savings filter into another account and are invested in 10k lots when the balance reaches 11k

    Normally the above gets us very close to spot on if it’s little out ie very cold winter to many heaters running we’ll chip in from discretionary/fun spending as the make up amount is normally very small.

    Fun money is anything left in our regular accounts as all the above happens first each pay week it’s impossible to accidentally spend bill money. My wife and I run separate accounts and budget our fun money as we like, we do coordinate on things like holidays etc. this normally results in a new ING account in the short term and the money is auto filtered off till the goal is met.

    @TS
    I think I’ve probably gone through what your going through
    ~ You need to find out what your wife’s and your life goals are do they align? or close to align? Important this is a discussion not a blame game. Try a mind map each with the word life goal in the middle (sounds stupid but it works) then compare and makeup a combined map.
    ~ From the above you can then set common goals to work towards your life plan should then fall out of that and then your budget etc down the line.
    ~ Other things to check is your wife using spending as an emotional crutch to get through some other more deeper seated/underlying problems? check out shopping/spending addiction.
    Possibly doesn’t understand financial matters is bad with numbers etc.
    Whatever you do keep your patience, remember money is not worth ruining your marriage over. If need be seek professional help/guidance to get to core problems.

  264. Swaroop C H says 08 June 2009 at 20:55

    I’ve also been looking for simple tools to manage this flow of money to budgets, goals and expenditure.

    Not satisfied with the current state, we decided to build a system of our own in our startup – http://www.trackeverycoin.com

    Every month, a user can make a Plan that splits the Incomes into Goals and Budget for expenses. Thus, the user can visually see where his/her money is going.

    And the mobile application / hardware gadget will keep reminding them of their budget before entering any new expenses. This reinforces the user to stick to his/her budget.

    (Being a long-time GRS reader, I hope a small plug for our product is okay 🙂

  265. Jen says 09 June 2009 at 02:09

    This is my first comment, but I’ve been reading your blog for a while and have found it useful and interesting (although I have actually never had money problems, I want to start properly managing my money and trying to pay back my student loans as efficiently and quickly as possible) so thank you!

    I would reccommend putting any money that you don’t save into your vacation fund. Don’t roll it over.
    If you know that any money that you don’t spend is going to go towards something that you really want, then you will definitely be much less likely to buy things that you don’t really need. I did that all the way through university and ended up only making a few purchases that I regretted.

    I can’t imagine spending that much on wants, I don’t even spend that much on needs! Haha.

  266. ts says 09 June 2009 at 06:01

    Thanks, SO1. I’ve mentioned earlier in the discussion that my husband is a ‘today’ and I’m a ‘future’! I figure if after 18 years of marriage he has not changed his spending habits he is not going to change at this point of his life! So, to be fuming over it is not worth it and not effective anyway.

    So I budget for all the needs and wants and savings, and pray that he doesn’t spring something unpleasant every now and then in my face. He works out of state. I separate our spending in two portions: one for me and the kids, all the needs, wants, and savings. One for him. Usually there is something left at the end of the month, in extra to my budgeted savings.

    We don’t have any debt, have retirement fund, have goal of paying off our mortgage in 2 years; have first year of kids’ college funds; are rebuilding the EF after putting a chunk in a 2008 cheap ‘new-old’ car. So I probably shouldn’t be too uptight. But as I’ve said before, I’m a ‘future’, and would always want to ‘store nuts for the potential harsh winter’. He thinks there is going to be perpetual bright sunshine, no need to worry too much! We are very different people!

    Anyway, he’s coming home to work next month. I will have to re-evaluate our spending budget. He will get a quite big budget of ‘blow money’ just to make him feel he indeed lives! I gave myself $60, and $40 respectively for ‘blow money’ the last two months and found that there was nothing I wanted to blow on. My husband, on the other hand, spent $700–un-budgeted– for an ice-fishing experience–no fish! IMO, you don’t need to spend that kind of money to realize that you are no fisherman! Ugh, ugh, ugh!

    So if there is a discussion on this different life views on money btw couples, it would be great. I’m sure I’m not the lone spouse here bearing this burden.

    TS

  267. Chris H says 09 June 2009 at 06:19

    I’m coming from a much different place then most readers / posters being young and debt-free. I don’t hink that the $750 is entirely out of line, but it is getting up there a bit. (Congrats on being able to spend it.)

    As far as the budget is concerned, I run mine like I run projects at work. The budget and any adjustments are only valuable in aggregate, so I readjust them once a year (around tax time). With that being said, I do look at my spending versus my budget weekly to make sure I’m keeping things in line.

  268. Trina says 09 June 2009 at 06:22

    I’m a big believer in the “automatic millionaire” method. All of our needs and savings are automated, so the money left over is our “wants” money. We actually put more like 25% into savings, and I always up that amount when one of our fixed expenses goes down (like when we paid off a student loan), or when our income goes up (like when we started getting the stimulus money in our paychecks). Otherwise, the extra money just gets frittered away, and you get that “lifestyle inflation” effect.

    I also automate our charity contributions, since we are committed to tithing to our church.

    I use Quicken, and put everything on plastic (and pay it off every month, of course). Quicken automatically downloads all of our transactions and categorizes them, so it’s easy to see where our money is going.

    I don’t worry about where the “wants” money goes, since we’ve already identified our priorities and automatically pay for / save for them. If it seems like our bank balance is getting a little high, I just put some more of it into savings so it’ll earn a higher interest and so we won’t spend it. If our balance seems a little low, I analyze where we’ve been doing extra spending, which is easy with Quicken’s graphical reports.

    I agree with the PP, that it’s not about “staying cheap forever.”
    😉

  269. Dani says 09 June 2009 at 08:39

    As an avid budgeter, I thought I’d take a stab at answering your questions. First, it is debt (school loans) that has us budgeting. Both my husband and I have fluctuating incomes, making budgeting critical.

    1. “How often do you re-evaluate your budget?” My husband and I sit down together once a month for a budget meeting. Here, we evaluate both the past month and the coming one.

    2. “If you go over budget for a month, what do you do?” If we go over, we count the amount over as an “expense” in the next month. For example, if we are $100 over in May, June’s budget will have an expense category of $100. Then we must be creative to cut $100 elsewhere to make up for it (less “play” money, less dining out, etc.) This really helps us keep in line on the wants. One thing that is critical to make this work is that we have an emergency fund. So if we go over because the of the unexpected vet visit or broken lawn mower, we have a different fund for that.

    3. “What if I go under budget in a category? Does that mean I get to carry that money into the next month?” For us, until those student loans are paid off, anything under budget goes right to debt.

    4. “How do you track your spending against the budget?”
    I use an Excel spreadsheet to track everything, except cash categories. We have groceries, dining, play money, personal, gifts & entertainment as cash categories. Once the cash is gone, it’s gone. If it’s leftover, we do carry these categories forward. If you don’t want that much cash, use a debit card, but TRACK it, and when it’s gone, don’t go over. There are times when we have to use a debit card for a cash category (like if my husband goes to the store after work but I have the grocery cash). In this case, we have an envelope called “The Bank.” If we use the debit card for a cash category, when we get home, I take the actual cash from that category and put it in “The Bank” envelope. Then we pretend the cash in that envelope is really in our bank account. Make sense?

    4. “Do you try to further reduce spending on these categories?” Because our income varies (some months we really struggle), we have to adjust each month. Some months we can spend $250 on dining, others we cut to $150. Groceries, play, personal, entertainment, etc….these categories have “baseline” amounts each month, but are subject to being reduced if the income is not high enough. We are committed to not spending more than we bring in. Period.

    Hope that helps!!

  270. Emma says 09 June 2009 at 10:20

    Here’s how we budget. We use a google doc spreadsheet that we both have access to. Each month has a column, and each item on the budget is a row. We’ve divided it into sections – income, taxes, tithes, retirement, and spending. Within the spending, we allocate money each month for blanket things like “Maintenance.” Whatever we spend that we deem maintenance, whether it be furniture purchases or an oil change, counts into the total for that category for that month.

    If we go over budget on any one category, we immediately sit down and decide what other category to downgrade or, if we have enough money in that category’s savings account to cover the extra while leaving $25 in the account, we’ll move money out of the account into the joint checking to cover the cost. If we’re under budget on any category, we put the remainder into the savings account it belongs to – i.e. Maintenance goes into the maintenance account. Not everything, like food, has an account, but the system works well for us!

  271. Krystal says 09 June 2009 at 10:31

    Hi JD-

    Congrats on your first budget!
    We started our budget in March, and we have done quite well, but still having a few out-of-budget expenditures. However, these out-of-budget expenditures have been getting smaller and smaller, and June might be the month where we spend nothing outside the budget!

    I have a written budget posted on a bulletin board right above my computer, so I can constantly be reminded of the budget (just stopped myself from buying Sounders FC and FC Barcelona tickets that aren’t in my budget), AND I keep a tally for categories that are spent over the entire month, such as groceries and gas, so I can ration if necessary to stay within my budget.

    I also highlight if I go over in a category by a certain amount in PINK (to indicate over budget) and if I stay under budget, I highlight in GREEN (to show money surplus). I keep my budgets and refer to them every month when I make a new one, so I can see where I may not be allowing myself enough money, or allowing myself too much.

    Good luck! I think budgeting is a blast (but then again, I also LOVE working on my debt snowball). I am what Dave Ramsey calls “the nerd”.

  272. Mike says 10 June 2009 at 09:01

    Hi JD,

    I think you will find that budgeting your discretionary expenses is not so painful. Since I have predictable salary income and my necessary expenses do not change very much from month to month, my discretionary spending budget helps me accurately predict the time schedules of my financial goals.

    My system is basically a weekly allowance backed by an envelope system. Every Monday I withdraw 75 bucks from the ATM to cover my discretionary spending for the week (this started out at 50 but I found that felt too restrictive). At the end of the week, anything that is left over from that 75 dollars goes into an envelope. If I ever want to buy something that is more than 75 dollars, I need to save up enough money in the envelope to buy it. I seeded the envelope with 100 dollars or so to make sure the first few weeks were not too painful. I found that the system works very nicely for me; I am able to save enough money in the envelope over a few months to make some bigger purchases. Saving towards these purchases also makes me thoroughly consider how much I really want the item.

    Here are the details of my envelope system:

    * If I use credit cards for discretionary spending, I write the amount on the envelope as a negative value to indicate that the amount *should* have come from my discretionary spending budget.

    * If I ever use cash for necessary spending, I write the amount on the envelope as a positive value.

    * I allow myself to allocate all or part of any windfall to my discretionary spending budget. These amounts may be marked on the envelope as positive values.

    * If the envelope has too much cash in it, I will deposit some of it into my bank account and mark the deposited amount on the envelope as a positive value.

    * I keep a running total of all the numbers written on the envelope. This number plus the cash inside the envelope is the real total of the “discretionary spending account”.

    * If the running total written on the envelope grows too big in the negative direction I would actually take the money out of the envelope and deposit it in my bank account where I would use it to pay the credit card bill or toward some other goal.

    * If the running total grows too large in the positive direction, I see that as an opportunity to use the credit card to buy something expensive 🙂

    An important component of my system is that I try to not use credit cards for small discretionary spending expenses like meals and movies. I still use my credit cards to pay bills and to buy groceries and gas. This makes my credit card bill, which I of course pay in full every month, very predictable. The biggest discretionary purchases that I make are usually with my credit card though which is why I like to see a big number written on the envelope 🙂

  273. mimms says 10 June 2009 at 11:28

    We have used a budget for over ten years. Actually, I use the budget and my husband pays the bills – for us, that’s a good division of labor. We’ve had to negotiate extensively because he’s a spender and I’m a saver.

    But when I say “a budget” I mean one document. It’s an excel spreadsheet broken down into functional categories, then into individual expenses. Each worksheet is a month, and specific items are linked across the months.

    I purged it about 5 years ago (I don’t remember why), so this particular document goes back to 2004, and I’ve projected it out to my hopeful retirement year (about 15 years from now).

    My philosophy is that our monthly budget should have no more than $5 unallocated, and the only “discretionary” funds are the cash we keep in envelopes and our allowances. Originally, DH hated this, but now he’s pretty enthusiastic about it because it’s made his life so much easier.

    DH and I have different philosophies about our allowances, though. I’ve tended not to have an official budget unless I’m saving for something. He has a variable budget every month based on what he wants to accomplish.

    I think the difference might be based in the fact that he has specific and expensive hobbies, and I don’t.

  274. elizabeth says 14 June 2009 at 08:15

    I was just thinking that I really need to reevaluate my budget – i.e. I write down everything I spend but I don’t actually change my spending habits because of it. I don’t really know how I’m going to change that mindset.

    I’m really impressed with your initial charitable contributions. When I first started giving to charity, I could only muster $10/month and worried that it would be very painful to give away.

    I just got back from a European vacation and it really wasn’t that expensive. Even though we took a 5-day cruise, all-inclusive with flights, 4-star hotels, cruise, food, transportation, souvenirs and admission fees, it was about $1600/person for 2 weeks in Spain, Italy and France (ok, it was a bit rushed). So with $200/month + windfalls, I think you can definitely have a great vacation. You deserve it!

  275. Meaghan says 18 June 2009 at 15:28

    I think it is a great idea to develop a budget. It will take a few months of keeping track before you can set realistic numbers in each category. To answer one of your questions: If you go under budget, a vacation fund sounds like a perfect idea. Knowing you could be closer to a vacation or have extra money to spend on vacation may make it easier to cut back in other categories.

  276. David says 29 August 2009 at 15:50

    You should not buy any books because you can get them for free online, just like movies. Do not go on concerts, give the pet away to someone else, do not buy beer or cigarettes as they are bad for your health and wealth. You will save hundreds of dollars if you dont listen to me.

  277. Nathan says 12 January 2010 at 05:24

    If you make it downtown Portland at about 3:30 pm on Sundays (opens at 4pm but there’s a line) you can catch Portland City Grill’s happy hour. It lasts all day, the food and prices are very good ($2-4 per item, two items is usually plenty).

    Brazil Grill on 12th and Jefferson is pretty good, not exactly inexpensive ($25/person, all you can eat) but the food is good and it’s better than $50/person.

    Le Bistro Montage (Cajun) under the Morrison bridge has reasonably priced entrees and is always good but doesn’t open until 6pm and is usually pretty full.

    If you like Vietnamese, you can try Pho Dalat near Sandy blvd and I-205, Pho’s a great meal and usually runs about $6-7 for a big bowl of Pho Dac Biet.

    I haven’t been there but I’ve heard that Screen Door (Southern) is really good, entrees range from about $10-15. 24th and E. Burnside.

    Anyway, there are tons of places in Portland to get great food at reasonable prices and I believe you have my email address if you need more places (variety, lower prices, etc.) to eat. You can also use restaurant.com for discounted meals and they frequently have coupon codes for %80 off the normal discounted gift certificates.

  278. TC says 12 January 2010 at 05:24

    Yikes! $3500 on dining out, I can imaging why you’re taking a good long look at your habit.

    The dining out number reminds me of an ex-girlfriend and I who went out to eat all the time. It just always seemed easier than staying at home. What advice would you have for those still in the singles world who are out going on dates? I don’t want to seem cheap on a first, second, or third date, but I also don’t want to flash around a lot of cash and break the bank trying to impress someone!

  279. Mrs. Money says 12 January 2010 at 05:24

    I definitely think quality over price when it comes to food. My hubby is a chef, though so that makes a difference! I know that I enjoy going out more when it’s a nicer meal. That’s why we’ve decided to skip the little fast food and Chili’s-type restaurants and go for the nicer ones less often! 🙂

  280. Daedala says 12 January 2010 at 05:59

    Remember that the cost of food has also risen a lot faster than inflation in that time. Your spending may not be as different as you think.

  281. Kyle says 12 January 2010 at 06:03

    “Just make sure you’re getting value for the dollars you spend.”

    When it comes to food, the value should be both judged by price AND whether or not the food is made using some sort of industrial waste. Or, less hyperbolically, be sure that you aren’t saving money by eating hotdogs when you go out:) IF I do get the desire to eat out, Subway’s $5 footlongs are the way to go. I can load that sucker up with tons of stuff (vegetables and such), and save half for later.

    Come to think of it, I am pretty hungry right now. To the oatmeal!

  282. Jason@LiveRealNow says 12 January 2010 at 06:10

    http://www.restaurant.com is a good way to save money. I don’t know how many restaurants they have near you, but the selection near Minneapolis is great. $10 gets you $25 off a $35 tab, and they ALWAYS have 70-80% off coupons. $2 for a $25 coupon is great. Don’t ever pay full price there.

  283. Mark Gavagan says 12 January 2010 at 06:16

    Hello J.D.

    As in most cases, the single data point of price paid per meal may not tell the entire picture. Perhaps some tracking for 2010 about the details of your restaurant purchases would be insightful.

    For example, cost and quantity of appetizers, drinks and desserts.

    Another item to consider is the amount and percentage of the bill you pay for service (“tip”). If you’ve received exceptional service (perhaps partly as a consequence of desperation on servers’ and restaurants’ parts) that would probably lead to increased tipping.

    Were there one or two big nights out at a wildly expensive place that caused the average meal cost to skyrocket?

    Lastly, Mrs. Money’s comment about seeking quality over price is certainly poignant – there is a very high price for cheap food. A one dollar fast food burger is cheap in end-user’s immediate out-of-pocket dollars, but astronomically high in total cost.

    Thanks for reading.

  284. James Wright @ Tech for the Masses says 12 January 2010 at 06:18

    Yes, the turning off my brain thing has done wonders! When we wander around the mall I typically see a bunch of STUFF I want, but do not need. I shut down my brain for awhile. Often times, I will forget about it by the time I get home. However, I may give that amazon wish list a try. Because some of those things you want but dont need, may make good xmas gift suggestions for other people.

    Theres nothing cooler then getting a gift from someone you always never knew you wanted, or forgotten about. Cause lets face it, some of us as frugal enough not to have balls enough to buy it ourselves. lol

    ~ James

  285. Deborah says 12 January 2010 at 06:18

    Eating out is our weakness too; when I was growing up, it was about a once a year occurence for my parents to take all of us (5 kids) out to dinner.

    Any chance we’ll get an end of year garden wrap up? Those are always my favorite posts!

  286. Rebecca says 12 January 2010 at 06:19

    Regarding eating out, when my husband and I go out, we always drink water with lemon. Not only are we saving $5 (plus tax, plus tip), but it’s healthier for us. If we want dessert, I’ll make something or stop by the local bakery which is a LOT cheaper than ordering there in the restaurant. We also try to look at the portions of our order.. if we can save some for another meal, we’ve just reduced the cost per meal. We try not to eat out more than 3 times per month for health reasons, the benefit.. it costs us less too.

  287. Cara says 12 January 2010 at 06:26

    I’m firmly in the “quality over quantity” camp. I enjoy eating out, but since I’m a decent cook I prefer to eat at places whose cuisine I can’t easily replicate myself, like Ethiopian food or sushi (I can’t make sushi nearly as good as my favorite haunt). As a result, the places I go to tend to be more expensive per outing. Plus, I’m very aware of the hidden costs of “cheap” food, and chain restaurants just plain depress me. Eat less, but eat better is my motto.

  288. Rob M. says 12 January 2010 at 06:31

    Sorry to be a stickler for details, but 69/108 (0.638) is a lot closer to 2/3 than 1/2.

    Also, I am almost of the opposite mindset, I’d rather eat out less often, but get a quality meal (steak, for example). My girlfriend and I typically eat out less than 4 times a month (maybe one meal in a weekend).

    I was raised that dining out was an occasional treat (maybe four times a year, excluding celebrations/events), so we should enjoy the experience, but not do it so often that it becomes routine.

  289. Ben says 12 January 2010 at 06:38

    Also, think about your health. Moving back to eating out more but for less per meal is fine but not if you are trading healthy food for fast food. Think about the associated healthcare and other costs by doing so.

  290. Tom says 12 January 2010 at 06:42

    I agree with 2.Deadala, prices have risen up.

    However, what might work is ordering say one soup and one meal. Typically, portions in restaurants are way oversized, so your stomach is full and you spend less. Priceless is the effect on the level of intimacy between you and your partner after switching meals. 🙂

  291. Dustin | Engaged Marriage says 12 January 2010 at 06:50

    We’re right there with you on the eating out situation. For us, eating out IS our entertainment many times, and we really enjoy a great meal out either as a family or just the two of us.

    I’ve never thought of analyzing our expenditures in this area the way that you have here, but I have all of the information to do so. It sounds like a fun (but scary) exercise!

  292. Andrea says 12 January 2010 at 06:53

    My husband and I like to save money when going out to eat by using Restaurant.com gift certificates. The idea is that you spend, for example, $10 on a gift certificate worth $25, saving you about $15. They are available for most major cities, at both local and chain restaurants, and are a great way to save a few dollars while still enjoying a nice meal out. You just have to watch out for the restrictions, such as spending minimums or exclusions on weekends. They also have sales sometimes on the website when you can get the certificates for even cheaper.

  293. Four Pillars says 12 January 2010 at 07:03

    We usually average about $130 for our restaurant meals plus $50 for babysitting (unless my Mom is visiting).

    That said, we rarely eat out.

  294. smirktastic says 12 January 2010 at 07:03

    Great idea Andrea – to which I’ll add that local radio and tv stations often offer half price gift certificates to restaurants (and other merchants). Check their web sites and see what’s out there, you will be pleasantly surprised. We get our favorite deep dish pizza this way for 1/2 price!

  295. Claudie says 12 January 2010 at 07:10

    Food spending is the only real spending problem that my husband and I have. We enjoy it, but dining out shouldn’t be a hobby for us. We always thought we knew what we were spending, but we were wrong. We were spending so much more. I had vowed to keep track of our spending starting this month and going back and looking at the last couple of months was a real eye opener. I just wish I’d started earlier so we could have saved hundreds of dollars!

  296. Slackerjo says 12 January 2010 at 07:13

    I find it very difficult to control my weight if I eat out. I eat out about 4 times a year and when I do, I don’t really worry about what I am eating.

    Plus, since I am really cheap, I refuse to pay for salad, soup or breakfast items at a restaurant. I can make them at home for less and they taste just as good.

  297. Lizabeeth says 12 January 2010 at 07:15

    J.D., we have the same problem in my home. We’d have so much more money if we didn’t eat out. We also went out less in 2009 than previously, but our average meal went up in cost quite a bit. We spent almost $5,500 for two people to eat out 105 times.

  298. kelle says 12 January 2010 at 07:20

    Budget an amount you feel comfortable about. Check on yourself after 3 months. No worry if your under. You can adjust price or number of times on the next 3 months if your over. It’s not just a selfish act. You are supporting a business you like and the people they support.

  299. Zack says 12 January 2010 at 07:24

    As far as good cheap places to eat, have you tried No Fish Go Fish? Right next to the corner of SE 39th and Hawthorne (3962 Southeast Hawthorne). Their soups are amazing.

  300. Chriso says 12 January 2010 at 07:24

    Regarding the Tangent. I live in the Hawthorne neighborhood and love keeping a list of places I think are good values to eat.

    Nicolas on Grand (share the mezza)
    Riyadh’s at Hawthorne & 14th
    Reel’m’Inn (dive bar on Division with cheap fried chicken)
    La Sirenita taqueria on Alberta
    Thai Noon on Alberta
    Zack’s Shack
    Por Que No
    Pho (any of them, but I like Pho Van)
    Clay’s BBQ on Division

    That’s the cheap end of the list. I have a more expensive end of the list that I feel is good value even if they do cost more. Feel free to contact me if you want to compare notes. 🙂

  301. Mike says 12 January 2010 at 07:27

    Hey J.D.
    I’m really impressed at how well you’re keeping track of your expenses and comparing them to your budget. I used to think that I was good until I started reading your blog!

    I was just wondering how you keep track of how many times you eat out in a given year? I could easily tell you how much I spent last year on eating out ($5,084 in 2009) but I wouldn’t be able to tell you what meals of the day they were or even how many meals that amount consisted of.

    Thanks!

  302. Kim says 12 January 2010 at 07:32

    Daedala is right, the cost of food rose incredibly – milk was $2/gall in 2005, and now it’s $3.50. Do you have another mouth to feed? You might be doing just fine.

    BUT I am VERY impressed that you have so much data! I am going to start this – I began it w/ groceries. While he’s great at all other areas of budgeting, to him food is a necessity and thus a budget is entirely unnecessary. He doesn’t buy crackers and cookies and soda, but will go to the store w/ out a menu/meal plan. Thus I began to track it. He’ll come around, he always does, he just needs to see the data!

  303. Tyler @ Dividendmoney says 12 January 2010 at 07:34

    JD,
    I’m right there with Four Pillars (above) on this one. Ever since the little one arrived, we’ve been eating out less often. It rarely makes sense when you factor in the higher cost of the food AND the babysitter. Plus, the better half makes great meals… although sometimes she needs a break!
    -Tyler

  304. Derrick says 12 January 2010 at 07:35

    J.D.,

    First off, thanks for this phenom blog. I’ve been reading it for about a year now, and while much of the advice I already knew, there are still some great insights and some “light bulbs” that go off.

    I would concur with a lot of the folks here… it’s a quality vs quantity item. If you wanted to drop your avg eating out cost, you could easily hit up the McD’s, BK, or Wendy’s one dollar menus and skew it way down… but you likely wouldn’t enjoy eating out, and would likely raise your long term medical costs as well. Nothing wrong with splurging for good food if you can afford it, and if it doesn’t become common place. But I’m a foodie, so I’m definitely slanted in my views.

    If you do want to find the best value for you money, I’d recommend checking out the website “Yelp”. Users review services/restaurants and can create lists to share with the community. Typically, for larger cities, the users will put up lists of either cheap eats that are worth the bang for your buck, or even specials on each day! In Chicago, people have created lists for specials of each day (e.g. Monday night specials results include low priced wings, a French prix fixe 3 course for $30 that’s BYOB, etc.) Excellent resource for finding good restaurant experiences, but also specific price ranges for those experiences.

  305. John Steed says 12 January 2010 at 07:43

    JD

    Have you considered setting a monthly budget for dining out? You’ve mentioned in the past that you generally don’t like to do “line item” budgeting, but perhaps this is one area where you can make an exception. If you have a set amount to spend every month, you are more likely to want to get your money’s worth when you do go out. And if you spend your entire budget before the end of the month, you have extra incentive to invite friend over instead of going out. Also, by limiting what you spend now, you have more to spend dining out on your vacations.

    Just a thought …

    JS

  306. ldk says 12 January 2010 at 07:51

    Interesting analysis, J.D.!

    We’ve decided to go in the opposite direction as you….eat out less often, though at better(more expensive) places. I find I don’t mind spending $100-$150 for a nice dinner out but spending $40-$50 for poorly prepared packaged food from one of the big box restaurants makes me crazy. We had to feed my daughter and a friend in between soccer practices last weekend (no time to get home) and ended up at a chain restaurant eating bad/soggy BLTs and anemic salads…total after tip: $48. Ugh.

  307. Beth says 12 January 2010 at 07:58

    I’m curious — is hosting people at home really that much cheaper? I’ve found that as a single person, even making a dish for a potluck can cost as much (or more!) as I would spend in a restaurant (I order water, skip appetizers, take half my meal home, and split a dessert with someone or order a mini). It’s expensive for me to host other families and couples at my place, so I don’t do it very often!

    I’ve learned that while it seems like a splurge to eat out with my friends, it can be a cost-effective form of entertainment 🙂

    Anyone else find this?

  308. Suzanne says 12 January 2010 at 07:59

    You dined out only 69 times in 2009? Where do you find the discipline? That’s only once in every 5 days – not even one lunch and one dinner out a week! I truly don’t know how to get my spending on food so low. My grocery budget alone is $300 per month (including all toiletries, makeup, cleaning products, etc.). I spend an additional $250 just on restaurants, drinks, etc. And that’s for one person.

  309. Steven says 12 January 2010 at 08:00

    I’d rather pay $70 for a good steak dinner than go to a fast food joint 6-8 times.

    I consider myself a foodie, and I can cook better than most chain establishment. So, when I go out, I also order things I can’t/don’t make. Dim sum and sushi are two examples where it takes lots of expertise and labor to make it great.

  310. Bradly says 12 January 2010 at 08:00

    JD, I think you have the eating out thing all wrong.

    My wife and I were in a similar situation and this is what we have done…

    We eat out less often but we go to really great restaurants when we do.

    No fast food, No cheap buffets, its junk anyway. We do order the occasional pizza but we don’t count that.

    We don’t eat out for convenience.

    We go out for dinner, breakfast, or lunch because we want to try an awesome new place, go to a really nice restaurant, or visit an old favorite.

    You will get your moneys worth this way for sure. Better food and better experience.

    We often use the dinners as date nights and get all dressed up as well. My wife really likes that.

  311. Ami Kim says 12 January 2010 at 08:07

    Given that you’re spending money you can afford to spend I think you’re doing fine from a *financial* perspective. But going back to how much something costs in terms of *your* time, you might re-evaluate the amount of joy or pleasure you get from these excursions. If you get a lot more pleasure from the nice restaurants, I don’t see why you have to start eating at cheap restaurants. If the main value you derive from these outings is the time you spend together, well, there may be less expensive ways to spend the time, and you might have fun trying to research and dig them up (i.e., hunting for hidden gems, fabulous new places, places that aren’t too expensive but where you can get dressed up – OR, consider signing up for a gourmet cooking class together, etc.). As long as you’re having a great time (within your means), I’d say, cut yourself some slack. 🙂

  312. Cara says 12 January 2010 at 08:08

    What Bradly said. Also, if you eat out less, it will be easier to reach your fitness and weight loss goals This is my opinion, bu frequent eating out and weight management don’t work well together. It’s doable, but much more difficult than if you eat in most of the time.

  313. Einat says 12 January 2010 at 08:14

    I highly agree with inviting friends over! People always use going out for dinner as the only way to get together and with everyone’s wallets tightening people would WELCOME being invited over for a meal! Why should it cost $50-100 per couple just to spend time with friends?

    I find it very interesting that you calculate how many times you went out to eat in the year to get avg. price per meal. I used to just say, holy smokes $5k a year on restaurants! I will definitely be playing with mint.com today to figure it out. Thanks for sharing!

  314. Phil says 12 January 2010 at 08:18

    Try the big name chains…my wife and I eat at Chili’s, Applebees, O’Charleys, etc and with their specials we can easily keep our tab around $25-30…though we usually get water to drink:)

    We also have locals that we enjoy…plus sometimes we’ll do Pizza or something quicker like Quizno’s or Penn Station.

  315. Caitlin says 12 January 2010 at 08:20

    Looks like we have differing opinions on restaurants! I’d much rather go out 3-5 times a year and spend $75-$100 on a dinner for two than go out once a week and spend $10 on cheap food.

    I love the Amazon Wish List idea, and I do it too! I’m certain that ‘fear of forgetting’ plays a major part in my wants. I think something is cool, so I want it now, so I don’t forget about something so cool later on. By putting my wants in my Amazon Wish List, I know they are there for me if I actually do want them.

  316. J.D. says 12 January 2010 at 08:21

    @Suzanne (#32) wrote: You dined out only 69 times in 2009? Where do you find the discipline?

    See, this is part of why I didn’t do the traditional discretionary spending analysis this year. I actually think my “dining out” is being underreported. Remember how I started giving myself an adult allowance at the end of 2008? I basically take out $200 at the first of every month, and allow myself to spend on anything I want. Well, I don’t track that spending. It’s just a blanket $200 withdrawal in Quicken, and it’s not itemized.

    However, I do use that money for meals. I never use it for dining out with Kris, but I do use the cash to buy lunch for myself at least once a week. So my trips to Flying Pie and Cha Cha Cha and Imperial Garden don’t always show up in Quicken because they’re absorbed by this allowance spending.

    That’s why I say my numbers are muddled for 2009 and it doesn’t make sense to compare one year to the next. I’m going to try to be better at writing things down this year, even when they come out of the allowance. That should mean I can do my normal analysis next year…

  317. sara says 12 January 2010 at 08:22

    As someone who often has friends over for dinner, a word of warning – depending on what you’re making (especially if you want to make something special), it’s definitely not necessarily cheaper to cook for others in your home. On the one hand, it is typically cheaper to prepare a dish yourself, but keep in mind that you’re doubling (or more) the number of portions involved, and you may also need to purchase foods in sizes larger than those required for the dish itself (like spices, packages of herbs, etc.) — and you have to be very conscious of using those things up later! This isn’t to dissuade you – I LOVE cooking for friends and still do it often – but I don’t necessarily think of it as a “cheap” alternative to eating out. One alternative is to invite friends who will invite you back for the most part, so you’re getting a “free” meal out of it another time. 🙂 Another is to ask your invitee to bring the wine or another portion of the meal. Of course, this depends on how good a friend they are. 🙂 (I only ask for wine/salad/bread/dessert/etc. if the friend asks if they can bring something, but most of my friends do this.)

  318. J.D. says 12 January 2010 at 08:24

    Also, I want to point out that I don’t put much special effort into tracking how many times we eat out. All I do is go into Quicken at the end of the year and tally the number of items in the “dining out” category!

  319. KC says 12 January 2010 at 08:24

    “We need to find more cheap places to eat. Half the fun of going out is just going out.” – I disagree with this statement. To me the best part of going out is enjoying a great meal in a nice setting. My husband and I had a buy 1 get 1 free coupon for Ruby Tuesdays. I’d read in the NY Times where they were changing their menu and it was more upscale so I decided to give it a try. The food wasn’t bad – although the meat, as usual in places like this was overcooked. But the problem was it was in a mall, there were a bunch of kids (little kids w/ parents and unsupervised teens) there, the customers were the type who don’t check their coats and the service wasn’t the kind I was accustomed too. Overall I had a terrible dining experience although I was fed fairly well for cheap (less than $25).

    But I’m not doing that again. The experience was just awful and the food wasn’t that good (although it probably was the best part of the evening). I’d rather pay $50-$100 for a great meal in a nice atmosphere where I’m waited on hand and foot.

    Sure we eat at places like Moe’s, Chipotle, and other quick eat places, but for a good meal I’m not hitting chain restaurants. I’ll pay more for a better dining experience and I’d rather patronize my local restaurants who place an emphasis on atmosphere and service as well as good food.

  320. Adam says 12 January 2010 at 08:28

    I had a slight freakout when looking at my restaurant spending at year end. Mint.com’s time-based graphs by category are really cool. Our restaurant spending was high and all over the board. Then, I viewed it as the broader category of “food & dining” and realized it was probably our most consistent category. When groceries go up, dining out goes down. Context is important, too, and groceries aren’t free, either.

  321. Bets says 12 January 2010 at 08:28

    Just skimmed comments so don’t know how many have mentioned these points:

    – if you drink alcohol (I do) BYOB!!!!! Learn a little about wine(Wine for Dummies was helpful to me) and find a good wine shop. If you know a little you can get drinkable stuff for $10 a bottle.

    – If you go to a place with a bar, get water. Have a cocktail at home before you go out.

    – Try places that don’t have servers.

    _ Splurge on a special appetizer. Your taste buds are freshest at the beginning of the meal.

    -restaurants.com is good.

  322. Cathy says 12 January 2010 at 08:32

    Hi,

    Have you tried Restaurant.com? My husband and I bought some certificates on ebay before Christmas. There are several restaurants we enjoy in our area and the savings are actually significant. Ebay will help you save even more than purchasing on their website. I gave away several certificates as gifts for Christmas and folks were really pleased. Try it. Perhaps some of your favorite restaurants participate!
    Cathy

  323. Kevin M says 12 January 2010 at 08:33

    @JD – why don’t you set up a “Cash” account in Quicken, and when you take out the $200, transfer it there and then itemize your spending? I do this and usually end up with a few missing dollars here and there but overall it helps me out.

    We hardly ever go places that would cost $50 a meal, our favorite places are Panera Bread, Qdoba and McAlister’s Deli. Sort of a step above fast food but usually under $20 a meal. Our budget is twice a week, or $40.

    That being said, if you enjoy dining out I would guess it’s probably better to spend more for fewer meals than trying to go for quantity.

  324. Karlv says 12 January 2010 at 08:40

    Have to say I agree with the comments regarding a different attitude toward eating out. If I can have it at home with my wife and enjoy a bottle of wine with it for the same or less than it would cost to eat out, I would rather be at home (read hamburger meal here).

    When I dine out, I want an eating experience that I am not likely to do better in my own home. When I say this, I think sushi or a chef prepared meal. I would rather have this experience less often and pay the necessary price for the experience than pay $25. just to eat out.

    As to putting your desires on hold to give yourself a chance to decide if they are really what you want, I have been getting better and better at this and I find this is an excellent way to reduce my ongoing expenditures for two reasons:
    1. sometimes I just decide I don’t really need it.
    2. often, further research points me to a better opportunity or the same opportunity at a better price and I am that much more satisfied with my decision when I finally make it.

  325. Suzanne says 12 January 2010 at 08:46

    Okay, I feel better now. : )

  326. Meg says 12 January 2010 at 08:48

    We budget $100 for the month for entertainment, and that includes “going out for food” money. We have to be so careful with how we spend it – if we want to go out for a nice meal (say, $50) at the beginning of the month, we have to watch our spending for the rest of the month. It also keeps us in line. Sometimes, we buy fast food (if we’re on the road, or if my pregnancy cravings say “eat at Culver’s!”), or sometimes, we might just get a cup of coffee and split a baked good. It’s fun, and it’s a small splurge.

    I do agree that half of the fun of going out….is going out. It’s nice to not have to clean up and do the prep work of making dinner, and then to just leave the dirty dishes when we’re done! I like the experience of getting ready to go out – maybe wearing a nicer outfit than usual, getting to the restaurant, people-watching, etc.

  327. Wendi says 12 January 2010 at 08:59

    My personal low cost favorite in SE Portland is Jade’s Teahouse and Patisserie on 13th Avenue in Sellwood. Most meals cost roughly around $10.

    http://www.jadeteahouse.com/menu.html

  328. Kim says 12 January 2010 at 09:13

    JD, what you say about wish lists and index cards hit home with me. I mostly don’t have any discretionary money right now, but for food issues I follow Cindy Sadler’s (The Next Hundred Pounds blog) mantra: It’s just food. There will be more. I can have some another time. This seems to also work for me with stuff I want, as well.

  329. Sam says 12 January 2010 at 09:16

    We manage our discretionary spending by using an allowance system, we each have a set amount to spend (the same amount) for half the month on things like eating out, entertainement, groceries, gas, etc. Spend too much on eating out then we have nothing to spend on entertainment, etc. Most of our going out is not spent on “dining” but rather we go out on Friday, we have a couple of drinks, we listen to live music and we order a sandwich (that we split) or we each have a salad. Actual eating out is limited. We generally spend $40-$60 for both of us on a Friday night.

    I’m a huge fan of the Amazon wish list or the Amazon save for later cart, I’ve got stuff in my cart from two years ago.

  330. elisabeth says 12 January 2010 at 09:17

    we like to eat out at “nice” places — but generally there’s too much food. SO, we either take home half (and thus the cost is somewhat reduced because it becomes part of the eating in costs) OR, more likely, we split both the appetizer and the dessert.
    A lot fewer comments on one of your other points — I’m really impressed that you are getting the “buy something/anthing” demon under control. I still find myself just wanting to make a purchase, any purchase, which much sound weird to those who don’t have that problem. Sometimes I just buy stamps or a candy bar that shows up as dessert after dinner, just so I can feed the “buy something” beast… I’ve been trying to replace that habit with a new one (the discard or donate or repurpose something every day habit), but so far, it’s not completely working…

  331. E says 12 January 2010 at 09:21

    Another recommendation for restaurants.com. They often have “sales” and my husband gets $25 gift certificates for $2. There are restrictions but usually they are easy to work around. We are Portlanders and can always find what we want on there. We went to Dragonfish, had dinner, appetizers and drinks and it ended up being about $10 each. Can’t beat that!
    Have fun! 🙂

  332. reed says 12 January 2010 at 09:23

    when my fiancee and i first met we were dining out 3-4 times a week and buying drinks, appetizers, meals and desserts for each of us. now we go out once a week and cook at home more often. when we do dine out, we split an appetizer, a soup and a meal. at most places you get plenty of food for two. the idea that you are saving money by brining home leftovers is a mental trap. the half of a steak and smidge of leftover potaoes cost twice what it would cost to feed two the same meal at home. we have shaved about $300-$400 per month from our restaurant bill while adding only $50.00-$100.00 to our grocery bill.

    great money blog,keep up the good work!

  333. Anthony says 12 January 2010 at 09:30

    Your average is $49.91. Knowing that you MUST occassionally you dine out for less than that means… you are sometimes spending $60 (maybe even $70) to go out and eat? I can have a fine-dining meal for 2 at a very nice steakhouse (including appetizers and dessert) for a LOT less than $70…

    I have to say that I eat out probably about 100 times in a year, but they are mostly lunches and probably average $15 for 2.

  334. Momjan says 12 January 2010 at 09:31

    I’ve seen restaurants.com mentioned a couple of times in the comments. Personally, I’m not a fan. It sounds great to save 80 or 90 percent on a $50 gift certificate, but to use the “gift certificate” you have to spend an additional $50 at the restaurant. And you must avoid blacked out days and times.

    Have you tried Groupon? You sign up for a daily email for your city. Each email contains one great deal at 50-60% off. A lot are for things I don’t use like spa treatments, massages and workout classes, but many are for restaurants at significant savings. The “groupon” concept is if enough people sign up to buy the offer, the deal is on! Check it out.

    I must admit, part of the reason I like groupon is that the writing in the daily emails is witty and clever.

  335. Anne-Marie says 12 January 2010 at 09:32

    For health reasons and for the benefit of my tastebuds, I most definitely prefer to spend on quality vs. quantity when dining out! My husband and I go out to dinner about once every two months, spending between 125 – 175 each time. We bag our lunches and cook dinners at home the rest of the time. We love to cook, and if I may say so myself, my homecooking tastes way better than Applebee’s et al. And is much healthier too.

    This is another great example of ”Decide what’s important to you. Give yourself permission to spend on these things. Pinch pennies on everything else”, which is by the way, a great quote to start off the year 😀

  336. Beth says 12 January 2010 at 09:37

    @ Kim — that’s my mantra too! “There will be new clothes next year.” “In a few months, electronics will be cheaper and have more options”… etc…

    I don’t have an amazon wish list (not sure it works so well here in Canada), but I tend to look up potential purchases and bookmark them in a separate folder. (It’s part delay tactic, part bargain hunting scheme). Last night I went through and cleaned out the folder. There were quite a few links that made me wonder “why did I want that again?” and others that realize I got along just fine without the product!

  337. Amy says 12 January 2010 at 09:45

    Want vs. Need
    I loved ur tips on limiting wants.
    I try to ask myself if it is a want or need.
    For example I may WANT a big screen tv but I NEED to pick up food for the dog. Its helped a lot.

  338. mjfrombuffalo says 12 January 2010 at 09:48

    Try restaurant gift certificate sites like Restaurant.com – I bought a $25 gift certificate to a local restaurant we like for only $10. Can’t use it on certain days and there’s a table minimum, but if you’re going to spend the minimum anyway, why not save $15?

  339. Minderbender says 12 January 2010 at 09:49

    One alternative to eating out you might think about-

    A number of years ago we created with some friends a “gourmet club”. Four couples participated and we took turns hosting. The host would select the theme and prepare the menu. The host would prepare the main course and other couples would be assigned to bring the salad/appetizer, side dish, or dessert. The host would usually send out several recipes to choose from as the accompanying dishes.

    It was great fun to try new recipes. The cost would usually be high on the night you hosted, but other times it was relatively inexpensive so the overall cost was fairly reasonable. Everybody pitched in with cleanup.

    It may be hard to find interested couples with compatible schedules, but it would be something to look into.

  340. frugalscholar says 12 January 2010 at 09:52

    I don’t have time to read this very carefully (sorry), but can you tell us if this represents the restaurant budget for BOTH of you, or if it is just your half. I sometimes get confused by your separate budgets.

    I do think it is useful to separate the experience from the quality as you do. That way, you can choose quantity or quality.

  341. Andy says 12 January 2010 at 09:54

    > My life wouldn’t be complete without index cards.

    To take yet another tangent, JD, would you be willing to talk in more detail about how you use index cards for personal/project organization? Perhaps in another post?

    I’ve dabbled a bit with 3×5 cards, but I don’t quite “get” how to fit them into my workflow productively, so it’s helpful to see how others do it. Thanks!

  342. Jen2 says 12 January 2010 at 09:55

    I have a “Cash and Dining” category in my budget where I keep track of all my cash withdrawals as well as my dining because I too spend most of my cash on grabbing a coffee or a glass of wine with a friend or grabbing a sandwich for lunch near the office. My husband is also a chef and we eat at home a lot, but we also like to enjoy nice restaurants. We wouldn’t waste our money on chain restaurants (just not worth it to us), so when we do go out we tend to spend more. My cash and dining category is bigger than yours and doesn’t count my husband’s cash and dining…just because we haven’t completely merged our moneys yet. Sooo…I spend a lot more than you in that category. I have figured out though, that although I can cut back on this category it’s not my biggest drain. I don’t tend to go way over budget here…I tend to go over budget in my “household” category. But that’s another story. Why spend money on going out at all if you don’t like the food or atmosphere? We love fine dining, but we’re the “don’t check your coat” folks that someone said above…I have no idea what that means, but I don’t like to check my coat. It’s just annoying to me.

  343. Brooke says 12 January 2010 at 10:00

    Hi JD-

    I live in the inner SE Portland area. To keep costs down, my boyfriend and I will go out to happy hour. As long as you have the discipline to not buy several drinks, you can usually get some pretty good food for fairly cheap. Try 3 Doors Down on 37th & Hawthorne and Dragonfish on 9th & Park downtown. Also, the Italian Joint on 31st & Hawthorne has a pretty good menu ($10-15 entrees). The Blue Pig on 50th & SE Division and Sckavones on 41st & SE Division are pretty good breakfast places.

  344. Jane says 12 January 2010 at 10:19

    “We need to find more cheap places to eat. Half the fun of going out is just going out.”

    I really agree with this as well, especially now that we have children. Early on in our relationship, we would go to $100+ meals, but somewhere along the way I started to realize that the food and the experience weren’t worth the cost to me. I would rather go out five or six times for the same price. I can see how someone would feel differently, but for me, like you say, it’s about getting out of the house. I can do this and spend $20 as well. We usually end up going out when I just don’t have the energy to cook and clean up.

    For the planned meals (anniversaries, birthdays, etc) without kids we usually spend more on a meal but nowhere near what we used to spend. I’m happy with spending $40-$50 (for two) on a semi-good meal. That’s enough for me. Perhaps later when we have more money or are empty nesters, we might go back to fine dining.

  345. Liz says 12 January 2010 at 10:25

    What a great motivation! I just received another of my own gifts to myself in the mail yesterday. I get bored and shop online, frequently buying things. Pretty much daily. Yesterday when I got the package, my frugal husband said, “Oh did somebody send us a package?” I was ashamed. “No honey,” I should have said. “I’m just self-indulgent.” Twelve days is amazing to me, and it’s great to read that the great JD still has spending urges like the rest of us.

  346. td says 12 January 2010 at 10:25

    I try to limit my restaurant dining and don’t like going over $40-50 at an above average place for 2. Occasionally, I’ll drop more, but it’s typically for special events. I spent $85 this past Saturday and though it was a little much.

  347. Rob Bennett says 12 January 2010 at 10:32

    What I love about this blog entry is that it shows the power of budgets. People think of budgets as these things that restrict their choices. No! Budgets are information reporters. You would not have known about this problem if you did not keep track of your spending, J.D..

    Now you can do something about it years sooner than you would have even learned about it if you did not track spending.

    Rob

  348. nives says 12 January 2010 at 10:33

    When I lived in Portland, I went to Noho’s.
    2525 SE Clinton Street
    It is Hawaiian and you can order your entree in different sizes.
    I love the macaroni salad!

  349. Richard says 12 January 2010 at 10:42

    Lauro Kitchen and Vindalho are both in SE. Each has a great happy hour. Vindalho has five dishes each for $5.00.
    Lauro’s happy hour has great burgers, pizza and calamari at great prices.

  350. Edward says 12 January 2010 at 10:45

    The other thing to take into account is how much has your income increased in that time? I’m sure it hasn’t increased by 240%, but it most likely has increased. When you’re at a lower income level, you sacrifice certain things you would like and would get if you had a higher income level.

    When I was out of work and my wife and I were living off her income, celebrating by eating out was the dollar menu of McDonalds (fast food). Now that I’ve got a part time job, celebrating by eating out is Pita Pit or Spicy Pickle (sandwich shop). Once I get a full time job, celebrating by eating out will be Red Robin or Olive Garden (gourmet chain). And that’s about as fancy as it gets around here.

  351. Artist says 12 January 2010 at 10:48

    @ TC – post #2

    Don’t know if someone already suggested this, as I haven’t had a chance to read all the posts, but here’s a thought.

    Preparing a meal (provided you can cook somewhat) for a date is very appealing to most women. Even if you’re a novice in the kitchen, Spaghetti is pretty easy & inexpensive. You just have to cook spaghetti, heat the contents of a jar of spaghetti sauce if you’re a novice & stash the jar out of sight, buy a bag of salad with toppings included & an bottle of dressing. A bottle of wine & a dessert from the bakery or freezer & you’ll still pay less than a fancy italian restaurant.

  352. Dawne says 12 January 2010 at 10:51

    JD: I’ve gotten some great restaurant deals from Groupon.com and have found new Portland restaurants in the process. The deals are usually at least 50% off, and you can sign up for other cities, too.

  353. atexasgirl says 12 January 2010 at 10:53

    Last year was the first year I budgeted and tracked every penny I spent. At the end of the year, I tallied up discretionary categories, like dining out, and realized that if I had put that money toward my mortgage, I could have shaved months if not years off my payoff.

    This month I’m trying an experiment with a “Didn’t Spend” envelope. Every time I resist spending money on something I don’t really need, like dining out or a glass of wine at dinner if I do dine out, I put it in the envelope. At the end of the month, I’ll put that toward my mortgage.

  354. lynnor says 12 January 2010 at 10:55

    Try eating out for breakfast/lunch instead of dinner to save $$.

    In Sellwood: Stickers, Fat Alberts (breakfast)
    Woodstock: Laughing Planet, Otto’s (for lunch), Toast (for breakfast), Delta Cafe
    Clinton: Broder (breakfast), NoHo (lunch or dinner), Vindalho (but more pricey)
    Other: Hopworks brewpub (on Powell & 29th)

    Check out WWeek’s Cheap Eats by area 😉
    Other ideas: eat a bit before you go out so not as hungry for apps/dessert, Dessert at home, eat at home and do drinks with friends or just apps w/ friends.

    And don’t forget the power of Happy Hour! Meals on the cheap.

  355. KF says 12 January 2010 at 10:58

    I am wondering whether your goal of eating out just as much or more in 2010 might conflict with your goal of getting healthier and reducing your weight. I think it’s nearly impossible, especially for people (like me!) with weight “issues,” to lose weight and maintain a lower weight when eating out a lot. It’s nearly impossible to accurately track ingredients and calories when you regularly eat out, and I assure you that restaurants use a lot more butter, oil and other yummy-yet-fattening ingredients than you would at home.

  356. Sonja says 12 January 2010 at 10:59

    Our goal for 2010 was to stop eating out, well at least fast food. My husband and I have three teenagers. Eating out with teens is not the same as eating out with toddlers. They are like real people who want real amounts of food. AAKK! We easily spend $50-$70 a meal at a decent restaurant. And this is only ordering water (no soft drinks) we stopped that quite a while ago. We can shave $10-$15 off our bill just be eliminating drinks. So we often end up at fast food which I have begun to loathe.

    My husband and I are working on the waistlines and fast food is no help. So far we have only picked up breakfast sandwiches for the kids once since Jan. 1 and this feels like a great triumph for us, considering how often we really eat out (if we are being honest).

    I find what you said here interesting “Sometimes, I just put down the thing I want, turn off my brain, and walk away. I force myself to stop thinking about it.” I think it goes back to that perception vs reality thing. How much in our lives is just how we perceive it at that moment? Verses the reality, is this a need or want? Will I really use this? Why do I really want it?

    Lastly, I have really found a way in my life to squelch that little shopping desire and that is using coupons. I get so much more (stuff) for the money. It is also like a little fun challenge to see how far I can get that total down.

  357. ryan says 12 January 2010 at 11:02

    if you are spending more money going out and eating real food, this would be expected.

    to compare eating real food out to dairy queen is misleading. this is not food.

  358. Tyler Karaszewski says 12 January 2010 at 11:02

    Looking into your restaurant spending is fine I guess, but it’s not the most interesting part of this article, despite it dominating the comments. I eat out all the time, by which I mean I ate out three times yesterday, I eat out for lunch almost every day, and I eat out for dinner several times a week. I probably go out for food 500 times a year. I’m not worried about it.

    The far more interesting part of this article is how you’ve been able to curb your spending on ‘stuff’. There are two ways to do this, so far as I can tell, and you’ve done one of them — give yourself barriers that encourage self-control. You seem to have gotten quite good at this. The other way is to change your priorities so that all this stuff is viewed as a negative rather than a positive, so that you don’t want it in the first place. I’ve had some level of success with this approach, although I can’t really say how I did it. I honestly think a lot of it is due to removing advertising from my life as much as possible. Now, for almost all things I could possibly buy, I look at them and think “what would I need that for? Why do people buy these things?” Sure, it’s not true of everything, but it’s a lot truer than it was a few years ago.

    I think this is the key to living within your means *and enjoying it*, you have to be able to stop over-spending in a way that doesn’t make you feel like you’re constantly depriving yourself. If you can do this, the rest of personal finance is easy. If you make more than you even *want* to spend, then you’re saving by default, money just accumulates in your accounts and you don’t need to worry about it.

  359. Susan D. says 12 January 2010 at 11:13

    If you don’t mind going half a block north of E. Burnside on 28th, there’s a swell little restaurant called Tapalaya–they serve tapas-sized portions of really good New Orleans style food. It’s perfect for sharing and sampling, plus the food is consistantly delicious! http://www.tapalaya.com

  360. J.D. says 12 January 2010 at 11:15

    @Susan D (#81)
    The problem, though, is that if I head up to that area, I’m going to want to go to Screen Door, not anywhere else. 🙂

  361. Kara says 12 January 2010 at 11:16

    I understand about the eating out. My husband and I have found places that we can eat good food for relativly cheap. We like to do things like drink water, 2.25 for a coke is crazy, share dishes and desserts. We still have plenty of food and the cost is far greater. I also know all the kids eat free places and days for when I take them out to eat which helps:)

  362. Kara says 12 January 2010 at 11:18

    I meant “plenty of food and the cost is less” Also, we like to go to our favorite restaurants and get take out. That way we avoid the cost of drinks and tip and we can even expand the meal by making our own salad etc.

  363. Jonathan says 12 January 2010 at 11:21

    Food recommendations: The best deal in town is the Tandoori Kitchen between 4th and 5th and SW Oak, downtown. Huge portions and amazing Indian food. Mexican lunch carts are great, I love the burritos at the cart on 35th and SE Division and on 50th and SE Division. The Lebanese place on Hawthorne and 14th is great and can be really cheap without drinks. We normally split a dish and an order of Hummus. Laughing Planet is great as is Mekong Grill in Sellwood. For sushi, the happy hour at Sushi Mazi on SE Division and 22nd is great (4:30 to 6:00) but the bill will probably still be at your average. Cheap, healthy restaurants are hard to find.

  364. Sandy L says 12 January 2010 at 11:22

    One of my reasons for eating out isn’t on this list yet. I am a good cook, but my husband is a picky eater. Going out allows me to order things he wouldn’t eat if I made them at home. Even though I could make Salmon at home, it’s too much of a hassle to cook it just for myself.

    And I totally agree that eating at home isn’t always cheaper. My favorite thai place isn’t cheap but food is fresh and portions are big. $30 of takeout is easily 4-6 meals.

  365. chacha1 says 12 January 2010 at 11:26

    J.D., don’t feel bad. At our worst, DH and I spent nearly $800/month on dining out and ordering in. Plus $400 in groceries? For two people?? Thank goodness we got a handle on that before my layoff.

    Re: cooking at home: I love this now. We have friends over pretty often and generally, for the price of one steakhouse meal for the two of us, I can feed four to six very, very well. With wine! (World Market and BevMo are my fave wine shops.)

    We eat dinner out now very infrequently, and only for special occasions. But I’ve found that it does take the fun out of it if we try to be frugal. ‘Cause then you’re thinking about money, not about how much you are enjoying the meal and your dear one’s company.

    One big thing I’ve noticed is that, at a steakhouse like Morton’s or Ruth’s Chris, I’m just as happy eating salad & sides, because I can make a great steak at home for a quarter of the price. I’d rather go to a French or Italian restaurant where they make food I don’t attempt at home.

    Anecdote: We had dinner at Cut, Wolfgang Puck’s steakhouse in the Regent Beverly Wilshire Hotel, after Christmas; the service was terrific, ambiance was nice, food was excellent; but I would have been perfectly content to skip the $36 filet mignon because the standout dish was the $14 appetizer. The steak was just a steak, but I’ll never forget that bone marrow flan. 😉

  366. Little House says 12 January 2010 at 11:32

    One of my goals last year was to cut down on eating out, funny enough. Most of our eating out was junk food, which isn’t really fun to eat, it just was fast. We did pretty well reducing our overall amount.

    Our second goal for last year was to reduce our expenses in fixing up our rental house. Our friends thought we were crazy to fix certain things, but the first couple of years it made sense. Now, since home prices have gone down, we might actually be able to afford our own house. We greatly reduced the money we’re spending on repairs on our rental. (Our landlord won’t fix anything, so in the beginning, we had to do our own repairs.)

  367. nancy says 12 January 2010 at 11:32

    Since my husband and I go out so little we enjoy it more and spend a little more. We love restaurant.com and have given many as gifts. I feel if you have a budget for it and scrimp in other areas it’s okay to go out and enjoy yourselves without regret. For others dining out can be an area to trim expenses. For everything there is a balance to be found. Enjoy 2010. Keep up the good writing and helping us to look at our budgets.

  368. Jane says 12 January 2010 at 11:34

    “to compare eating real food out to dairy queen is misleading. this is not food.”

    I think your stomach would beg to differ. Look, hyperbole is not convincing. It might be low quality food or food you don’t find appetizing, but it does digest. I appreciate the “real food” movement, but I find the snobbery attached to it…well, distasteful.

  369. J.D. says 12 January 2010 at 11:36

    I see there are a lot of Laughing Planet fans here. Unfortunately, I’m not one of them. I don’t enjoy the food or atmosphere. (Though LP is the reason I subscribe to XM radio — our writers group used to meet there, and I loved the station LP played, so I subscribed when I paid off my debt.)

    Kris and I both love Nicholas’ Lebanese. (In fact, that’s her favorite restaurant.)

  370. kelsey says 12 January 2010 at 11:46

    For Portland restaurants, I’d recommend Old Wives Tale, 1300 E. Burnside. They specialize in fresh food, lots of vegetables, no preservatives.

  371. Brandon says 12 January 2010 at 11:54

    Dude, the food cart pods! They’re springing up like mushrooms all over Portland, and many of them stay open late with a party atmosphere. Try the lower Hawthorne pod on a Saturday night. Cheap and festive.

    http://www.foodcartsportland.com/

    (Hope this isn’t a repeat. I only skimmed the other 90+ comments.)

  372. brooklyn money says 12 January 2010 at 11:56

    Is that for two people? Because I spend more than that for just me in one a year. So congrats! Of course I live in NYC. blech.

  373. J.D. says 12 January 2010 at 12:06

    Also: These numbers are in general for both me and Kris. I don’t keep track of which “dining out” expenses cover how many people, but it’s usually two people per meal.

  374. chiefcaba says 12 January 2010 at 12:10

    I love to eat out but my bank account hates it. I tend to enjoy better quality and having a drink or two with my meal which always inflates the prices. While I’m in the Chicago area so I cannot speak to particular restaurants for you here are a few tips that have helped me keep the spending part under control:

    Happy Hours – If you are willing to eat in the bar area (which I actually prefer a lot of the time) you can find some decent restaurants with a good happy hour menu. McCormick and Shmick’s (different names around the country) has a superb happy hour menu where you can get a half pound burger, oysters, catfish bites, and other yummy stuff for under 5 bucks each as long as you buy a drink first.

    Specials – Not coupon specials so much as I know that the Italian place I enjoy has half-price wine on Mondays and a steak house I like has BYOB Wednesday’s. This is great especially since most places (at least around here) will re-cork the wine you don’t finish at the end of the night so you do not need to finish the whole bottle. Other places will let you bring your own wine and only pay a “Corkage Fee”.

  375. Jamie says 12 January 2010 at 12:13

    JD – I’m not the first to mention it, but the food carts in Portland are incredible. We visit about once a year, and my wife looks forward to the $7 food cart meals as much as a $100 meal at a proper restaurant.

    Pizza can be relatively affordable as well, and Portland has at least one killer pizza joint – Apizza Scholls. Hands down, the best pizza I’ve ever had. Pizzas are $19-24 each, and will easily feed the two of you. My wife and I split one (okay, a 70/30 split) after I ran the 2008 Portland Marathon. We were both full. We’ll be there in a couple of weeks, and will also try Ken’s Artisan Pizza.

    Another favourite is Park Kitchen, near Powell’s. You could easily spend a fair amount of cash here, but most plates are shareable, so you could get a very nice evening at a decent price.

  376. Stefanie says 12 January 2010 at 12:16

    There are SO many fabulous places to eat for not too much money in PDX! I’m glad you and Kris are on the Nicholas’ bandwagon – I also recommend Arabian Breeze, on NE Broadway (out of your rec’d area, but worth it!), which is their sister restaurant – a bit of a different menu, and a bigger space, just just as delicious (and oddly enough, their online menu is priced higher than their actual in-store menu). We also love Fujin on SE Hawthorne and 36th for delicious Chinese food, the food carts at the 12th and Hawthorne pod, the Just Thai food cart on SW 3rd and Stark – all their entrees are $5, appetizers are $3 – and they are all HUGE portions of food – good enough for 2 meals at least. I really like Hoda – more middle-eastern – on SE Belmont around 34th.

  377. Angela says 12 January 2010 at 12:19

    You may want to check out http://www.restaurant.com for deals.

  378. Cely says 12 January 2010 at 12:39

    I spend way more than this, unfortunately. Food is one of my splurges. However, reading this post prompted me to do a review of spending-by-category for 2009 (mint.com), and I’m mildly horrified. I don’t have non-mortgage debt, and have a healthy emergency fund, but seeing some of my spending habits over the course of the year has given me pause.

    I don’t plan to make drastic cuts, but there are plenty of places I can reduce. I’ve been wanting to put more into savings and clearly the money is there, if I just cut out a few things per month.

    Once again a GRS post has prompted me to do some work on my finances! I love this blog.

  379. Karen says 12 January 2010 at 12:39

    Very interesting post!

    Last year I spent about $1200 total on eating out. It’s by far the biggest item in my “personal entertainment” budget (which includes $128 on books, $80 on music, $120 on DVDs). This budget category doesn’t include vacations, so I always feel like the eating out expense is too big. On the other hand, I never go to bars and only rarely see a movie in the theater. I do spend on jazz clubs and the occasional play, however.

    Similar to you, while I worry about the expense of eating out, I also hate to give up something I love doing and that I feel is overall a very positive part of my life (I can easily afford it, it just seems like a lot of money that perhaps I should be saving instead).

    I especially like eating out because it’s social—I’m a divorced mom, and eating out means spending rare quality social time with adults. And you don’t have to plan ahead like you do if you try to get tickets to a play or concert!

    I also take my 2 kids out to eat several times a year (to places like Olive Garden & Rainforest Cafe) and besides being fun, I consider this an educational experience because I use it as a way to help them learn how to behave appropriately in public (This training has helped them in many social situations. They are now 11 years old (I have twins) and I can take them anywhere and feel confident they’ll behave).

    I suppose I should note like others have here–when I eat out, I always bring home at least another meal for myself in a “doggie bag”. The portions are always huge. So maybe that helps justify the expense?

  380. Mike says 12 January 2010 at 12:41

    Regarding the tangent, if you’re craving some good pizza and beer at a cheap price try Sparky’s Pizza on SE 8th & Morrison. My GF and I can get two slices each, a pint of beer, and a glass of wine for about $16. They also show Blazer games on 4 flat screen TVs. I’m glad you like Cha Cha Cha, the Big Mama is great! Ole Ole is good too, it’s on NE 20th & Burnside and you can get a massive burrito for $5, bring cash.

  381. sandy says 12 January 2010 at 13:04

    If you are going to France this year, you may want to consider the price of most restaurant meals in your eating out decision. Restaurants are quite expensive on the other side of the pond, unless you know where to go. I would think about starting a special fund for Restaurants in France. you’ll be glad you did. Keep an eye onthe exchange rate, too. What seems to be one price there, can turn into a “WHATTTT????!!!!” when you get home and see the bill.

  382. Suzy says 12 January 2010 at 13:09

    As others have indicated, if you are trying to lose weight (isn’t that another of your goals this year?) eating out less is a good way to do it. I would guarantee restaurant meals are loaded with calories even if they don’t seem like it. I inspect restaurants for a living, and between seeing how things are made and the poor food handling practices I sometimes see, you’ll be wanting to eat at home a lot more often!

  383. V says 12 January 2010 at 13:21

    I find Portland to be a very cheap city compared to other places I’ve lived. To make it cheaper sign up for Groupon which gives you one killer deal everyday. I’ve gotten 50% off at Siam Society, Branch whiskey bar, and Delta Cafe. Also check out the Merc Perks page on the Portland Mercury site. Similar deal with 1/2 price gift certificates.

  384. Christine says 12 January 2010 at 13:38

    Good job J.D.! On books I know that Trent from the Simple Dollar mentioned paperbackswap and I know it has definitely saved me hundreds on books and I only have to pay postage!

  385. Gholmes says 12 January 2010 at 13:40

    JD where you paying $14.23 for the both of you in 2005; or did both of you go out 50 times?

    If you were only paying 14.23 for 2 I think you earned the right in 2009 to pay 49.91 for 2.

    Stop with the buyers remorse. Wife and I will grab a Costco Dog and coke $3.00 for dinner but it doesnt really compare to the Pier 101 (Lincoln City) prime rib and seafood ($50+).

  386. Rich says 12 January 2010 at 13:44

    Most people are commenting on food budgets and/or great places to eat. But I want to comment on the power of something else J.D. said — the power of simply putting something you want on a list (instead of just purchasing it.)

    This is something very important I learned from the classic work of Getting Things Done by David Allen. As we humans try to juggle all the items in our life, get organized and get things accomplished, it can be very stressful. Even when we aren’t actively in the midst of thinking about it, part of our brain is constantly dealing with all the unresolved items on our mind.

    One of the most important things is to get this subconscious junk out of your brain, where it is haunting you and taking up your energy. Put the items you think you MIGHT want somewhere secure: on a paper list, on Amazon’s wishlist, anywhere that you know it is secure, you can look at it anytime you want. Then it is LITERALLY off your mind, and you can focus on something else.

    Putting your desires/wishes in a safe place might help you stop thinking about it and feeling the pull of whatever it is. This is really a secret weapon against over-spending: stop fighting with yourself and just write it down somewhere. Later, when you are relaxed, you can make a well-informed decision about it.

  387. Frank says 12 January 2010 at 13:51

    There are too many great places to eat in Portland that making it cheap limits you. What we do is get a low cost appetizer and share an entree. Actually making it a portion fit for a healthy diet.

    Sometimes we’ll split a beer. But the cost of that has reached a point where I’d rather pass on it completely.

    Also making it a bi-weekly outing instead of a weekly one should keep the costs down.

    Check online for new recipes and make something at home that you love to eat while you’re out.

    Thai food can be pretty easy.

  388. pdxdayhiker says 12 January 2010 at 13:57

    Something to keep in mind: Often when you’re going out for a big meal and getting apps and desserts, you’re taking home leftovers and getting one or two more meals. You don’t get that at Dairy Queen.

    There are so many inexpensive places to eat in Portland, I don’t even know where to begin. I’m sure you’re familiar with Yelp to find reviews.

    I find Thai food to be my go-to inexpensive dining out. Most items are around $10 and when you order family style, 2 entrees can feed 2 people with leftovers.

    Also, Happy hours are a great way to save money if you can get to them in time-not easy when everyone doesn’t work nearby, but some places serve happy hour until 7, which is great. Later Happy hours include The Night Light on Clinton and all the BJs brewpub locations.

  389. Becky says 12 January 2010 at 14:13

    I agree with Jane #68 about eating out more often (I’d prefer more often with less outlay each time as it gives me indigestion to pay too much to eat out and intense feelings of guilt when I think about people who are hungry)–and Tyler #82 about your curbing the spending habit.

  390. Amy says 12 January 2010 at 14:32

    La Buca
    http://labucaitaliancafe.com/

    Best cheap place in Portland and right around the corner from the laurelhurst theater if you are looking for a date night.

  391. Marie says 12 January 2010 at 14:49

    Our two favorite restaurants are BYOB and next door to liquor stores. We get more for the money by finding hole-in-the-wall individually-owned places. They tend to look run-down but serve amazing food, and the lack of atmosphere also keeps the screaming brats away.

  392. Brigid says 12 January 2010 at 14:51

    I’m not sure I see a problem. Like someone else mentioned – did you adjust for inflation? I also see the pattern of eating out less often at higher quality places – maybe enjoying a cocktail or glass of wine along the way. Its more of an experience than just shoveling food in your face. In my opinion – that’s the way it should be. You make enough money – you should do this if you find it enjoyable and it’s not sinking you. There will always be a cheaper way to live but what does that get you? Technically you can eat off the $1 value meals at all the fast food places, but YUCK!!

    When I was a kid, my parents took us out once a week. I still try to hold to that guideline. it helps when I have something ready to go. I’ll usually take something out of the freezer the night before and have some sort of plan for it for the next day. Keeps me on track most of the time.

  393. Not My Mother says 12 January 2010 at 14:59

    I’m another who thinks quality over price when it comes to food. My criteria is that if I’m going to pay for someone else to make my food, they’ll have to do a better job than I can, and as we are both pretty good cooks that means that places like Dairy Queen just don’t cut it.

    Another issue is that where we live maybe we don’t have the discounts on food that Americans have. Our entertainment books give a maximum of 25% off ‘quality’ (ie not fast food) restaurants. Here you’d struggle to get two baked potatoes for lunch for $15, and that’s without drinks .I think $50 for dining out for two is good value; ours would be more like $100 for a good restaurant and $200+ for a great one. (In London, dining out for forty pounds – about $90 at the time – was good value!)

    But for all we love going out to nice restaurants we do it less than once a month, which is good for the budget but unfortunate because there are so many great restaurants that we haven’t tried yet!

  394. Jim says 12 January 2010 at 15:04

    Do you guys drink a lot? I’m a foodie and a $50 average is pretty high, but my wife and I usually limit ourselves to one or two drinks (and often we have soda or water).

    I would recommend concentrating on ethnic restaurants. My wife and I can stuff ourselves at the local Vietnamese or Mexican places for $20-25 with tax and tip. Indian or Thai places are usually pretty reasonable, and Chinese food shouldn’t ever be THAT much.

    Also, fine dining is great and everything, but there’s something wonderful about simple, local specialties like a $1.50 authentic Mexican taco, a perfectly crafted Philly cheese steak or Italian beef sandwich, or a steaming bowl of Vietnamese pho.

  395. bethh says 12 January 2010 at 15:11

    Ah, Portland food, how I miss it! I still get back a couple of times per year but don’t eat so much in your target area.

    I spent $2268 going out last year – this category includes just a beer, or an ice cream cone, so the numbers are a bit hard to crunch. I estimate I go out about twice per week, and I live in the Bay Area.

    I second the Portland recommendations for:
    No Fish Go Fish
    The Italian Place (corner of SE 32nd & Hawthorne) – it’s delicious but tiny so it’s best if you’re already going to be in the area.
    Hoda’s

    And highly recommend:
    * Toro Bravo, especially if you can go with friends, since it’s tapas/small plates. Wow was it amazing.
    * Pied Cow (coffe/tea/afternoon snack, especially if it’s a nice day and you want to sit outside in their lovely garden area)
    * my favorite sandwich in all of Portland is Grand Central Baking’s mediterranean tosti
    * if you’re willing to go to E Burnside for lunch one day during the week, there is a MOST amazing little Greek lunchplace somewhere between 12th & 16th or so. It’s on the south side of the street, has a blue awning, and was still there when I was in town this summer. I used to work near there and got lunch there occasionally. The gyro is so freaking good.

    Those are all quite affordable spots!

  396. RetirementInvestingToday says 12 January 2010 at 15:13

    $3,443.61 is a lot of money. Compound that up for 15 years at 6% and your staring at over $74,000.

  397. Sarah says 12 January 2010 at 15:26

    If I’m going out to eat, I want it to be worth it. What’s the point of paying someone $8 to make me something I can probably make for myself, better?

    I think your data just show that your tastes have been refined.

  398. Jim says 12 January 2010 at 15:29

    I prefer quality over quantity.

    Try searching in Yelp.com for restaurants. THey have almost 2000 restaurants reviewed in Portland and you can filter by neighborhood and cost levels.

    Inflation didn’t cause much of the increased spending. Prices for eating out have only gone up about 3.5% a year since 2005. So that $14.23 spent in 2005 would cost about $17 today.

  399. J.D. says 12 January 2010 at 15:37

    @Sarah (#121)
    Are you saying I’ve experienced taste-bud inflation? 🙂

  400. Early Retirement Extreme says 12 January 2010 at 15:59

    If your budget is representative of the average, you would be spending 5.4% of your income eating out. So if you’re indeed spending that, you’d be spending 3443/0.054=$63759 annually overall. That’s about 10 times my annual budget or 5 times ours if the $3443 is counting both of you. I spend $50/year tops each year eating out for about 3 times total.

  401. Mark Gavagan says 12 January 2010 at 16:15

    Dear Early Retirement Extreme (Jan 12th, 2010 at 3:59 pm),

    While I’m sure most readers of Get Rich Slowly appreciate a good measure of frugality and agree that spending much less than you earn is essential for building wealth, spending the absolute least amount of money on everything is not necessarily the best path for everyone.

    If three $17- meals out per year works for you, that’s great, but it’s not the only way to go while still being responsible.

  402. Bananen says 12 January 2010 at 17:04

    Oh, lol. You spend an equivalent of almost 30% of my annual income on dining out. Except for _very_ rare occasions I only dine out when visiting the in-laws in Central/Eastern Europe, where food is still very cheap (but great).

    The good thing about being a low-income student is that you learn to make your own food for a low price. I hope this habit will continue long after graduation.

    Edit: I should add that using the Amazon wish list is a great tip. I have a LOT of books on my list, and just adding them makes me feel that I almost own them. Once in a while I go through the list to see if there is a good (used or new) offer and to remove a few books that I don’t really want anyway.

  403. chacha1 says 12 January 2010 at 17:30

    Y’all quit taunting me with Dairy Queen! I love it and there’s not one anywhere near me!!!

    Managing wish lists: I would be lost without my Amazon list. As another commenter noted, once you write it down you don’t have to keep it in your brain. And knowing you can get it *whenever* takes down the temptation to get it *now*.

  404. Shelley says 12 January 2010 at 17:49

    Every time I go down to Portland (I am near Seattle) I hit two places – Powells and Old Wives’Tales. It is a fabulous restraunt that is not very expensive and has a great menu. One of the things it is know for is its soup bar (the creamy russian mushroom is amazing – like mushroom stroganoff) that also has several types of bread and crackers. They do a chocolate mousse that is wonderful. The menu is somewhat modular in that you can order may of the meals as vegitarian or choose to add chicken, salmon etc. to the plate. I took my Mom and she loved it so much that before we left town I took her again for breakfast.

  405. Shelley says 12 January 2010 at 17:50

    Oh – a quick add on – Old Wives’ tales is at 1300 E Burnside St. 503-505-6079

  406. Toby says 12 January 2010 at 18:15

    I think food carts are one of the best ways to try a huge and (hopfully) fantastic variety of foods for relatively minimal expense. I like the low risk factor for new culinary experiences. Sometimes the atmosphere leaves a little to be desired. Delicious food doesn’t always taste as good when eating it in front of homeless people.

    Here’s a decent site to assist – Portland only:
    http://www.foodcartsportland.com/

    The other tip I would second is the “every other week” dining out. Our spending didn’t go down, but the quality of the dining experience sky-rocketed. We were willing to travel further and make a bigger event out of the meal – appetizers and cocktails.

    Once a month is not frequent enough for a meal out for us, otherwise I can only imagine the meal a month’s restraunt budget would buy. Joel Palmer House, DOC, EaT, Paley’s Place – all great, but all too expensive except for very special occaisons.

    Also, amen to Screen Door. If you’re lucky enough to brunch there early, the fried chicken and waffles is enough food for an entire day. Maybe two. Brunch there has been slammed lately and I’m too hungry to wait an hour in the drizzle. You might also try the Delta Cafe over on Woodstock. It’s got a little more…character.

  407. Jolie Guillebeau says 12 January 2010 at 18:48

    FYI, No Fish Go Fish is lunch only, but it’s terrific. There’s also the Waffle Window– they’re not just for breakfast anymore. And the happy hour at 3 Doors Down is fantastic.

  408. J Brown says 12 January 2010 at 18:51

    Just for comparison – we spent $2460 for 88 meals, family of 4 in 2009. My records were a little shady in 2008, so I do not have much to compare.

  409. Barb says 12 January 2010 at 18:55

    Wow, my food bill is much lower, but then I’m single and living podunk Tx where the cost of living is less.

    I spent an average of $124/mo in ’08, and an average of $175/mo last year. My goal is to get down between the two this year. But as much as I love to cook it’s so boring for one, so I’m working on eating heathlier/organic food as much as possible, that I cook myself.

    Instead of being a ‘wanter’ I’m the opposite, I have trouble spending. Both positives and negitives to that though. Good luck to everyone this year!

    We’ll see how it goes.

  410. grrlpup says 12 January 2010 at 19:01

    For a cloth-tablecloths happy hour that’s a good deal and feels a bit fancy, I like the Springwater Grill, near Bybee and Milwaukie Ave. in Sellwood. After nine p.m., last I checked.

    Sometimes I take a modest “eating-out” amount of money and go to Fu Bonn, the giant Asian supermarket, to spend it on frozen steamed buns, dumplings, and other convenience foods. That way with my ten or twenty dollars I’ve bought a stash of pick-me-up snacks and small meals, usually a mix of favorites and foods I’ve never tried. It stretches out the fun for a few weeks. I often use something from Fu Bonn as a “give me the energy to cook dinner” snack. Then I can face cooking beans or veggies or whatever, and get the benefits of staying home.

  411. David/Yourfinances101 says 12 January 2010 at 19:57

    Now that is definitely beaking it down.

    I wonder if you avail yourselves of all the discounts restuarants are offering these days. They’ve been so hard hit by the slowed economy that almost all of them are discounting now

  412. Sheila says 12 January 2010 at 20:25

    No longer live in Oregon, but still have my favorites: Hoda’s middle eastern on 34th and Belmont, Riyadh’s Lebanese on 13th and Hawthorne, Wong’s King Seafood on 80th and Division (that one only!) for awesome dim sum and Thanh Thao on Hawthorne at 40th (although I really like the Thai place right across from PSU), Il Piatto on 23rd & Ankeny (kind of spendy). Haven’t had good Mexican food since I left Colorado except when visiting New Mexico, of course.

  413. Deb says 12 January 2010 at 20:30

    If you love Sushi, nothing beats Saburo’s on Bybee. Yes it’s $$ but the portions are so huge that you can each split an order of rolls, a few bites of sushi, and even a salad (try their salmon skin salad, it is to DIE for) and be plenty full for way under $40 total.

    Also:

    Woodstock area, Pizza Roma – a big slice, salad and drink will set you back less than $8 a person and it’s such good pizza.

    Papaya Thai near Bybee, on 17th. A light supper of spring rolls (theirs are fabulous) and spicy soup won’t set you back much at all.

    Another well kept secret in da hood – go to the mexican pastry shop on the corner of Johnson Creek Blvd & 32nd ave (Tacoma up to Johnson Creek to the blinking red light – it’s there next to the convenience store). It’s nothing special to look at, but their food is moi bueno. They have expanded their mexican bakery, which btw is fantastic, to other foods including take out tamales and flans, etc. This place is packed with hispanic customers (imo, the best barometer for a mexican taqueria or bakery), and we have been die hard customers for years.

    Ever slipped into Kay’s place for a chicken fried steak? Pretty killer! (just have your defibrillator handy later).

  414. E says 12 January 2010 at 21:20

    HA! I figured I should post to make you feel a little better. I just compiled my quicken report for 2009, we dined out (breakfast, lunch and dinner) a total of 499 times with a total expense of $9,402.

    Sounds like we should focus on scaling back a bit I think in 2010.

  415. Sean says 12 January 2010 at 22:48

    The Waffle Window at 36th and Hawthorne

    http://wafflewindow.com/

    Great place for a late breakfast on a Saturday.

  416. Nicole says 12 January 2010 at 23:12

    Man… all these restaurants are making me wish I lived in Portland.

  417. StackingCash says 13 January 2010 at 00:22

    Thanks for another 3rd stage of personal finance article regarding food. Being fans of the Food Network and living in Las Vegas we tend to spend too much money eating out. We can “afford” it but I always say to myself, “How many meals could we have had if we applied that money to groceries?” It’s usually a minimum of 3 delicious meals prepared at home to the 1 at the restaurant. With that kind of ratio I always feel like we are wasting our money eating out. I wish we could find better balance when it comes to enjoying life without feeling guilty.

  418. peter says 13 January 2010 at 02:18

    I spent 1400 on restaurants last year (this includes buying friends a meal). As some other readers, my opinion is also that the restaurant food has to be better than what I can cook myself, or something don’t cook myself. So I don’t go to a restaurant to eat a spaghetti bolognaise. My suggestion would thus also be: Dine out less often, but spend more when you do. I generallyy spend $50 a person and more, but don’t eat out often

  419. Pam says 13 January 2010 at 09:18

    There are lots of cheap, good places in North Portland (not SE, but it’s where I live so I’m more familiar). King Burrito has great cheap Mexican (and a surprisingly great burger). Monsoon Thai is great too. Also previously mentioned Montage is great.

    Local weekly The Portland Mercury has a new thing they do call Merc Perks where they have weekly specials with various local restaurants where you get gift certificates for half price.
    http://post.portlandmercury.com/portland/Shop

  420. Marcy says 13 January 2010 at 10:11

    I’m not sure which types of restaurants are your favorites, but I love yelp’s map search feature.

    In our area, have you tried Frog Thai? It’s near the Value Village on McLoughlin. It’s quiet and good for a date.

    Also we love Elk Rock – everything there is homemade. It’s a bar experience not a dining experience, but the food is great and reasonably priced. It doesn’t look like much from outside, but we are glad we stopped in and it’s become one of our regular breakfast places along with Hale’s & Bob’s Red Mill.

    Old Wives Tales on Burnside is delicious. Last time we went I ordered appetizer, espresso, dinner, & dessert so we spent $40 including tip, which is a lot for us.

    Flying Pie on McLoughlin is great too. I have been told by several people that Hot Rod has great pizza, but I am gluten intolerant so I can’t testify to that.

    We love the local businesses!

    We were so disappointed when Cabaret II went in, naively hoping it would be a new restaurant.

    “Groupon” is another suggestion in addition to the entertainment book and restaurant.com. I got a half off deal for El Palenque which is on 17th.

    Finally, having people over for dinner doesn’t always save us money over going out, because we want to serve fancier food to guests – it depends if we are planning to drink or not. Drinks really add up when you go out. But a rotating potluck is fun and frugal – one of the local food bloggers has monthly themed potlucks where they choose a foreign cuisine and everyone gets to try to find a dish to bring.

  421. J.D. says 13 January 2010 at 10:23

    Marcy!

    Apparently you live in my neighborhood. 🙂

    We haven’t tried Frog Thai, but have talked about doing so. Nor have we tried Elk Rock.

    We do go to Hale’s from time-to-time, but mostly for dinner. Prices are reasonable. Our favorite breakfast (and lunch) place is Sully’s in downtown Milwaukie, across from the lumber yard. The food is awesome, if unassuming. (I love the tuna melt.)

    And I agree that Flying Pie is great. I actually eat lunch there once a week (out of my cash allowance). Much of my book was written in Flying Pie. 🙂 I’m also quite fond of Imperial Garden, in front of Ace Hardware.

    Since you know the area, I’ll point out that Gino’s in Sellwood is the source of much of our restaurant spending. I’d eat there every night if my belly and budget would let me.

  422. SandyFS says 13 January 2010 at 11:02

    Wow! I never realized I was in such a minority. I don’t love to dine out, since I generally can make better food at home, and I’m not fond of noise and crowds. The few times we do go to a restaurant, it’s because of a special occasion, and it will be a four or five star restaurant–quiet, excellent service, and food I can only dream about being able to make. This only happens maybe 6 times a year, but if I think about it, it probably adds up to $1200 – $1500 per year out of our budget.

  423. pdxKate says 13 January 2010 at 12:43

    If you just want deelish food and don’t mind taking it home (or eating it outside, provided it isn’t raining a bunch), try the carts on hawthorne! dude. burrito cart is where it is at!

    Otherwise, are you opposed to going to bars occasionally? Try getting there for happy hour. Usually there are some good eats at decent prices (plus people -theoretically – aren’t all wasted and annoying yet)…check out FARM (now has HH wine/food specials), Maiden in the Mist, Night Light, C-Bar, Gladstone Pub, Bar of the Gods, Tennesse Reds even has BBQ HH food…etc. The only thing is that sometimes they make you buy a drink to get the cheap eats.

    More on the cheap…
    – Por Que No
    – Cha cha cha
    – Ole Ole
    – East Side Deli (DEELISH and HUGE sammies towards 50th/Hawthorne, by Angelos)
    – Justa Pasta (best pasta in all of portland, nice atmosphere, worth the drive to NW Overton & 19th, and CHEAP!)

    There are more, but most of SE stuff is covered above!

    Woot! PDX REPRESENT!!!

  424. Ben says 13 January 2010 at 15:13

    I agree that the restaurant.com coupons are great. We have found them to be a much better option than the Entertainment book. As previously mentioned, don’t buy them full price, look for the coupons (often 80% off) and get $25 off a meal for $2. In SE Portland, I would recommend the following places that use restaurant.com coupons:

    Mezza Middle Eastern Cuisine (Woodstock and 55th)
    Dingo’s (Hawthorne and 46th)
    Blue Pig (Division and 50th)
    La Calaca Comelona (Belmont and 23rd)

    You might also try Hawthorne Fish House (Hawthorne and 43rd) as they have fantastic lunch specials. And for those indulgent nights, fried cheese curds!

    There are lots more on restaurant.com if you are willing to drive a bit. We just went to Lorenzo’s in Mississippi and had a fantastic meal for $38 (including tip, drinks and the coupon!).

    Best of luck J.D.!

  425. Jessica @ Life as I See It says 14 January 2010 at 11:42

    My husband and I enjoy eating out too – mainly because we enjoy cooking and recreating the recipes at home. We recently spent a weekend in Atlanta and we found all the restaurants we ate at via tripadvisor (I am featuring some of our favorites on my blog tonight!)

    I highly recommend checking tripadvisor for your local city to find the hole-in-the-wall but good places! Price ranges are posted on tripadvisor too.

  426. Sandy says 14 January 2010 at 17:53

    Ok, more Portland area suggestions:

    for Lebanese, I really recommend Habibi’s downtown around morrison and 10th.
    Henry’s Tavern on 12th has fantastic happy hour food deals M-Thurs.
    Pad Thai Kitchen around Belmont and 23rd is the hands-down best Thai food in Portland.
    The Berlin Inn near Powell and Milwaukie is reasonable and delicious, especially if you split the fondue.
    Sheridan’s grocery store near MLK and Stark has a fantastic deli that changes daily, they put a menu up online every day.
    Casa de Tamales (Asparagus Farm) in downtown Milwaukie can be delicious and relatively inexpensive.
    Other places in SE Portland that I love for relatively cheap: Daily Cafe, The Side Door, Kyoko Teriaki.

  427. Beth says 15 January 2010 at 07:43

    Hey JD, We have eliminated eating out from the budget right now while we pay off the house (which is a sacrifice in a city like Portland! But a couple of our favs: Hawthorne Fish House; Fujin; and the Barley Mill. At the Fish House and Barley Mill, if you can limit yourself to one pint of beer, it’s not too expensive. Oh! And for Mexican, El Tapatio on 82nd and Divison.

  428. Clayton says 15 January 2010 at 09:03

    I really like the index card idea and the 30 day waiting period. I think that makes great sense and I’m going to try that for myself.
    Thanks

  429. julie says 15 January 2010 at 14:40

    Some of my cheap (when compared to your average!) favorites around your designated area are:

    – Hoda (Middle Eastern, Belmont/34th)
    – Jam (Esp breakfast, Hawthorne/20th-ish)
    – Portabello (vegan Italian, SE 11th and Harrison. It shares a storefront with Cellar Door Coffee Roasters, which is also amazing. Get a reservation!)
    – Los Gorditos (the cart is at SE 50th/division, and they just opened a restaurant on 12th/Division!)
    – Genie’s (Breakfast/lunch, 12th/Division)
    – Monsoon Thai (Way out of your area but my favorite – Thai food in PDX – N. Skidmore/Mississippi)

    Also, I would suggest getting a Chinook Book!

  430. Diana says 16 January 2010 at 22:36
  431. Aaron @ Clarifinancial says 18 January 2010 at 07:56

    I just love it when you say “Holy Cats!” This is an under-used phrase in the English language.

    My wife makes up a menu for us each week and she utilizes my culinary skills to their fullest sometimes. So this means I’m putting together $20-$30 plates for $7 or less a lot of times. I think you’re right about saving if you do eat out – avoid the extras and find local deals you both love.

    And thanks for reminding me we have a gift card to DQ we need to use up.

  432. Marion says 18 January 2010 at 12:43

    We usually eat out only once a week, usually Friday evening, as a reward for a week of hard work.Our favorite restaurant is “Old Country Buffet,” where you can get a fresh salad bar, entrees, beverages, and dessert for about $13 per person. Sometimes they have coupons in the local papers.

  433. Justine says 19 January 2010 at 23:56

    I know it’s in SW but if you can make it over to Porcelli’s. They have 3-close Tuesday happy hour. It’s solid italian food and they have good wine and $2.50 cocktails. It’s a great neighborhood place.

  434. Jadzia says 25 January 2010 at 21:42

    Co-sign the Arabian Breeze recommendation. I am the furthest thing from a vegetarian (my Frenchy husband would totally divorce me!), but the vegan pizza is AMAZING.

    Also, Campbell’s BBQ, which is right in SE.

    Is there a Pizzicato near you?

    And now I am planning my meals for next week’s trip to Pdx. : )

  435. Chase says 01 February 2010 at 19:09

    I have found that with eating out, sometimes the cheaper stuff is better in terms of food quality. And it is usually MUCH easier to get coupons, as well.

  436. Kristy says 05 February 2010 at 10:36

    Try Dragon Inn (just south of Elk Rock on McLoughlin). It looks like nothing from the outside, but the food and service is great! It’s my favorite Chinese food place that we’ve been going to for about 10 years now. Get the sauteed green beans along with your meal.

    Nicholas’s on Grand is my very favorite inexpensive place.

    Also, I went to East Burn (on Burnside, obv.) a while ago and the food was great. Not cheap but not too expensive.

    Bob’s Red Mill is fantastic for breakfast. I love their scratch biscuits. Also, there is always a coupon in the mail at some point.

    Try FORKFLY http://www.forkfly.com/newsite2/users.php for some deals – my best friend just told me about this. It works with your phone, but you can also search it online through the website for coupons. I am going to try the Country Cat (which I’ve heard is AMAZING but a bit spendy) in one week and will use this coupon:

    “Receive one entree for half-price with the purchase of a full-price entree of equal or greater value**Limit one coupon per table”

    I’ll also second Springwater Grill in Sellwood as a great place to go.

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