How to get out of poverty
Until I reached my early 20s, I believed that my childhood had fewer financial advantages than the average childhood. Once I gained more life experience, I saw that my family hadn’t been as poor as I thought we were.
That doesn’t mean we weren’t poor, though. We wore hand-me-downs, didn’t go on vacations much, qualified for reduced school lunches, things like that. But we were “poor with potential.” When I arrived, my parents were in their very early 20s, and my dad was at the beginning of establishing his farm. While they didn’t have much money at that point, they knew how to manage it. And while they didn’t have much income coming in from jobs, they knew what to do to make that happen. Things started to change when I was a teenager. In fact, my youngest sibling remembers a completely different childhood — vacations and new carpet, but nothing about the really difficult times.
Through the years, my eyes have been opened to the ugliness of what it really means to be poor in the US (which is, admittedly, different from other parts of the world). My kids go to a school where 67 percent of the students are low-income. A couple of acquaintances have also taught me a lot about the cycle of generational poverty.
Brandon (as I’ll call him) became a single father while still a teenager, which immediately limited some of his career choices. And not only that, he has difficulty finding child care on second and third shifts. Last year, he wanted to borrow money from us against his tax refund to buy a different vehicle. We said no, but somehow he found the money anyway. He couldn’t afford to insure it, however, which resulted in multiple offenses, traffic tickets and supposedly even a night in jail.
And then there is Leah, who was raised by parents with drug addictions. She’s had some problems with drugs herself, and recently got out of prison for multiple felonies. Her new boyfriend beat her up last weekend, and her paycheck of $53 a week doesn’t even cover her rent, let alone groceries, and utilities. But since one of her felonies was for retail theft, it’s been difficult for her to find a job. So, her tiny paycheck meant she couldn’t pay the rent, or she faced eviction. There aren’t any homeless shelters in our county, and the next county does have a homeless shelter, but said that she would have to prove residency in that county to be allowed to stay there. Um, okay. The next step was to call family and ask them for her. Most of them have drug problems, and since she’s trying to stay clean, she wants to avoid them if possible. An aunt not on drugs refused to help. She has no community to help her.
I could go on, but do you need more information to see these two people have some challenges? We want to help — and I mean, really help — them. Although they’ve asked us for money, it’s just a band-aid for a much bigger problem. Our first idea was to help Brandon get through college so he could find a better job. Unfortunately, his idea of college was one of those for-profit colleges that, in my opinion, prey on potential students like Brandon. Next, we wanted to help him find a job. So we introduced him to someone with connections who eventually found him a job…that he lost a few weeks later. It was then we realized that teaching him to fish was going to take a lot more than handing him the fishing pole and some bait. He doesn’t seem to know what he needs to go fishing in the first place. Helping him requires more than just saving money through his (sadly) multiple job losses. He has no assets and frequently can’t pay bills like his phone bill.
Poverty
Unfortunately, Brandon and Leah aren’t alone. According to www.povertyusa.org, 15 percent of the US lives in poverty, including one in five children and 30 percent of single-parent households headed by women. I’ve long had the goal of somehow helping fight rural poverty, so I also wasn’t surprised to learn that a higher percentage of rural people live in poverty compared to urban populations.
Resources
It’s one thing to read statistics and it’s quite another to sit in dark apartments with empty refrigerators and wonder how to improve your life. How can people like Brandon and Leah dig themselves out of this hole their families have been mired in for generations?
Food
In 1964, President Johnson kicked off the War on Poverty. Before that, few programs were available to feed the hungry. Now there is, among others, the SNAP (formerly called food stamps) program, which provides food products for low-income households, the National School Lunch program, or WIC, a program that provides formula and baby food for infants. This doesn’t even include food pantries that are found in many of the small towns around me. My employer, a community college, has started a Food Share program. Employees can bring in shelf-stable food for the hungry students to take. It seems like no one should be going hungry, right?
Clothing
In my own community, there are multiple sources of free clothing, so this also shouldn’t be an issue. As I mentioned, my kids attend a low-income school. The teachers have a stash of snow pants, coats, hats, and gloves to hand out as needed.
Shelter
And then there’s shelter, a necessity in the sub-zero temperatures that most of the US has been having this winter. Unfortunately, rent is expensive, and even more unfortunately, eviction usually awaits those who can’t pay the rent. And eviction often leads to homelessness. There are government programs, like HUD housing that offer reduced rents to low-income people. But one thing that excites me is something that I’ve only just started hearing about: group homes with mentors.
A violence-free home is opened to women with children (usually). They learn budgeting, cooking, housekeeping, and eat meals together with the other people in the home. Mentors live in the house with them and are the ones who teach these skills. These women are encouraged to go to college, and child care is arranged for them while they are working or going to school.
I am still trying to think of ways to help, not enable, Brandon and Leah, but it feels like an uphill battle. Are these programs that I have mentioned enough to drive poverty away from them? I feel like the answer is more than a government program, but I am just not sure what it is.
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There are 149 comments to "How to get out of poverty".
I was really hoping that people would have responded to this. I think that generational poverty is a huge problem, as you point out. Recently a report came out showing what it takes for someone born in the lowest income bracket to make it to a higher income bracket as an adult. The people most likely to get out of generational poverty had help as children. Preschool, where children learn impulse control and how to follow directions, and access to birth control as teenagers, made an enormous difference in childrens lives.
I’m not entirely sure what can be done to help your friends get out of their situation. A lot of it sounds like poor impulse control, or a lack of willpower. Both of these are a muscle that needs to be trained. Not that I’m blaming them or saying that its all their fault, how do you learn these things when no one is around to teach you?
Jen,
I agree with you. When I was in Shanghai in 2007, I saw the biggest gap between the rich and the poor. And, unlike this country, the poor didn’t even have a chance to make it out!
I believe something has to be done with our educational system, starting with the preschool kids, because by that time, they already have the mental capacity to understand the concept of money. Why not teach it when they are still young?
As Warren Buffett said, “Chains of habit are too light to be felt until they are too heavy to be broken”.
Thank you for helping people begin to understand. I hate when people say things like “they should just go to school and get a better job” and ” we should teach personal finance in schools” when they have little or no understanding about the psychological effects of generational poverty.
I think sometimes it isn’t a matter of simply providing opportunities and resources — people have to want to change. They have to feel they are good enough, capable enough and deserving enough to make that change.
Teach personal finance in schools? Yes! But realize you have to address that poverty, consumerism and debt are the “norm” in many people’s families. Encourage people go get an education (whether it’s a trade or a profession) and get a job — yes! But beware that some people are wary of good things because they’ve had little stability in their lives are afraid they’ll screw up. (And that fear turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy).
My experience of poverty is very limited, but I saw enough of it when I was teaching to make me think that it’s a far more complex issue than many people realize.
I think you touched on an important thing here: helping those in poverty feel as though they are good enough to be successful. We can’t help anyone that doesn’t want help in the first place, but many times, we can’t just start helping those people in the normal sense. We need to start to build them up, show them that they are loved, that they can be something in life. Only then can they be taught lessons on how to be smarter financially, career-wise, etc.
Beth, you hit the nail on the head. Though I grew up in a semi middle class household, I attended schools that was anything but. I remember the conversations my classmates would have and they were all headed down the same path their parents went down. Potential options that had anything to do with getting out of their situation was only for others: “the rich kids” or “the white kids”, not for them. If you had a basic computer in the home, you were rich.
We had a teacher that would sexually harass us on the sly. Unfortunately we didn’t realize that was NOT ok. The girls thought it was sweet. They were looking for love, something they didn’t get at home.
Domestic violence was the norm. I’ll never forget seeing my 16-year-old classmate come to school with her jaw wired shut. She didn’t think it was a big deal that her boyfriend broke her jaw and blamed herself for it.
How could these kids not stay in poverty?
Again and again I see examples of poverty stemming from people having children before they can afford them and then those children falling into the same patterns. Maybe what we really need is better sex education and family planning resources.
While I think that more education may be a good start, it doesn’t erase the years of cultural norms. Most people know where babies come from, so while they may need to know prevention options, what they really need to understand is how much time, energy, and money children really require. Then, how does that child affect your life…not only today, but years in the future? And then, even more difficult, how does a product of generational poverty (and, say, teenaged parents) stand up and decide that they aren’t going to procreate for awhile? It’s really difficult, I am sure.
In Brandon’s case, he is doing his best to be a good dad, but he doesn’t really know how. He loves the child, and the child loves him, but the child is frequently dirty, smelly, doesn’t eat nutritious meals, wears dirty clothes or clothes that are too small or big.
Sometimes my heart breaks when I think about this beautiful child’s future. Will it be a repeat of the generations before? Or can we somehow break the cycle?
Tough stuff!
Most people may know where babies come from but it is absolutely clear that places with good sex ed have lower ages of first sexual intercourse, better utilization of birth control and lower STD rates among teens than places with abstinence only ed. Better sex ed and access to birth control really do help quite a bit.
Um, don’t you mean “higher” ages of first sexual intercourse? The way you put it, it sounds like you favor younger children having sex at earlier ages.
Preserving innocence as long as possible is best – and turning off the TV will contribute to that goal.
Lisa-
I admire your commitment to helping in a real way. Maybe your focus should be on Brandon’s child rather than Brandon? Can you take an active role in helping this child develop the skills/confidence/know-how to make it successfully in the world? Breaking the cycle with this child early may end up being more effective than focusing all of your efforts on Brandon. Not that you should abandon him, but maybe seeing his child develop skills and habits would inspire him as well.
To be honest, the only reason we are involved in Brandon’s life is because of his child. We babysit and give him everything we can (whether it’s a bath, nutritious food, reading to him, whatever we can do for him while he is in our home). I hope we can always be a part of his life.
“Last year, he [Brandon] wanted to borrow money from us against his tax return …
In the U.S., our tax RETURN is the form we send the IRS. If we have money coming back, it’s a tax REFUND.
[Editor’s note: Thanks, Hmphh. I’ve made the correction to the post.]
I grew up in a very poor area of the US–the Appalachian Mountains. All of the friends that I grew up still live there. All of the girls had babies in high school or shortly after.
Sex education may work for middle class and upper class kids who have options, but I don’t believe that it is very successful for impoverished kids who don’t feel like they can ever afford college and believe that making a family is the “next step” after high school. They find “love” in high school and aren’t that worried if they get pregnant.
So teaching them that babies take time, attention, and money doesn’t work well–unless you can provide options that they believe in. If high schoolers don’t believe they have other options and believe that they will always struggle financially, like their parents, you can’t say, “Don’t have babies until you are financially ready.” They will hear you say they shouldn’t EVER have babies–a message they won’t accept. Not to mention, they will recall that their own childhood wasn’t too bad (even though parents rarely share how stressful raising a family without $ is). So they believe that since their parents did it, they can too.
I couldn’t agree more with your comment. People assume that all young people want to prevent preganancy. While it’s true that many of them do, there is a shockingly high percentage who want to have a child. It’s what their grandparents and parent did, and it’s want their friends do. I learned this while volunteering for 3 years at a crisis pregnancy center. It was the number one shock that came from my experience there. The cycle of too-early pregnancy is rarely broken because it is as much a part of their reality as the expectation of college might be for other young adults.
More recently, I have become very involved with a local homeless shelter. While their mission in the cold months is to literally keep people from freezing to death, they tranfer their services to full case management in the summer months. I have come to see that this 360-degree approach is the most beneficial to truly ending the cycle of poverty – working with them on basic financial literacy, job coaching, substance abuse issues, and family/friend relationship building.
Having grown up in an impoverished area with very troubled schools, I could not agree with you more. Getting pregnant was a badge of honor for a lot of these girls. They wanted a baby that would love them and vice versa. I wanted to get pregnant at 15! Thankfully I didn't but I was in good company with how I felt.
Yes! I think people assume that all teen pregnancies must be unintentional–therefore, better access to birth control would solve the problem. But it’s way more complicated than that.
I heard an interesting study on NPR, that teen pregnancy was dropping directly because of shows like 16 and pregnant, Teen Mom, etc. They gauged it with social media data. Crazy stuff. Maybe seeing it on film changed their perspectives?
Yes! There were some girls in my high school classes who got pregnant because having a baby meant they had someone who loved them and depended on them, and maybe they got to keep their boyfriend too.
These girls had the same sex-ed education and resources that I did, and I saw the same thing when I was teaching. Teaching kids stuff in school isn’t a cure all — not when you’re battling the influences of family, friends and social “norms” in different cultures and income brackets.
Bear in mind that just putting off having kids until later doesn’t actually help with the poverty aspect, if you start with no resources and a limited ability set. (And by limited ability I include the ability to work 12 hour days in construction and live in a men’s homeless center in another state, as someone JD interviewed years ago did.)
One study (http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2012/05/teen_moms_how_poverty_and_inequality_cause_teens_to_have_babies_not_the_other_way_around_.html) seems to indicate that the outcomes are not particularly different for young women who miscarry from those who carry their child to term. IOW, they really have nothing to lose by becoming parents. When will they ever be in a position to afford a child? One time is as good as another when all the times are bad.
wonderful thoughts on a very compelling and complex situation! this is the reason too many of the 1% don’t get it….they are completely out of touch and have never first handed witnessed or for that matter known anyone personally who has been there (poverty, struggling to get by, etc.) support groups are so important and the infrastructure that is lacking in too many communities that need it the most is appalling!! the rich get richer for a reason….they get the support and have the resources. schools are a wonderful place to start, as most teachers i know (no i am not, but am married to the best teacher) are caring and supportive. it is up to each of us to miond our own finances and also help others as best we can……every little bit goes a long way!!
To scotteeth (post #4):
You say “this is the reason too many of the 1% don’t get it….they are completely out of touch and have never first handed witnessed or for that matter known anyone personally who has been there (poverty, struggling to get by, etc.”
I’m not in the 1%, and know they don’t need me to rally to their defense.
But I’ll bet they’re not out of touch at all. I’ll bet a good number of them in fact had “been there.”
Frankly, I’m tired of the richest among us — who, by the way, pay most of our nation’s income taxes, who generate many of the jobs, who make possible low consumer prices, etc — are continuously castigated for the personal faults of those who continuously make all the wrong life choices.
Great comment. There are certainly bad apples in all walks of life and at all income levels. I totally agree that many of the “rich” have been there in the bottom rungs and to castigate them for their wealth is both counter-productive and wrong-headed. They are not the reason that others cannot or will not get ahead.
Churches are a great resource and have experience with networking. Our church belongs to a network that houses homeless families for a week at a time, and the office provides support like finding a job or an apartment. They also have a food pantry and clothing donations room. I believe that coordination between various resources is key, and houses of worship are already doing it. If someone wants to help, check with them. They’ll be grateful for the help.
Community is the biggest thing you’ve mentioned. In my urban area, we have a “good” side of town and a “bad” side of town. I volunteered at a non-profit that teaches young felons the construction trade and helps them earn their GED at the same time. I also spent a very brief period teaching middle school math to 6th grade boys at a school on the “bad” side of town. Why are we still so segregated (and I mean this from a purely economic point of view).
I was forced out of teaching due to a poor administration, but whether you are a teacher or not, the one and only thing that will help these kids before it is too late is to have a one on one mentor to help them get through the bad times. Some of the problems I’ve seen: 1) a student was not diagnosed as a poor reader because he cheated off another student on his computer based test, he was diagnosed with “bad behavior until halfway through the school year 2) special ed students who had very low IQs were “mainstreamed” when they should not have been according to their IEP. Before one of the special ed teachers took a stand against administration and created her own classroom, these students also caused behavior problems. One student later told me after the class was formed: “I’m so happy I can actually do the work now”. 3) one of the “good” students came in hungry all the time because his bus was late and he missed the free breakfast. My principal told me I was not allowed to hand out pretzels to students during class because we couldn’t “reward them with food”. This same student later brought in a bag of marijuana and got caught with it on the bus, showing it to his friends and telling them all about his uncle’s “job” selling it. This was an 11 year old boy who didn’t know there was anything wrong with bringing weed to school.
I can see why other teachers left the school of their own free will, but it broke my heart when I had to leave. I told the kids it wasn’t their fault, which is the opposite of what some of the other teachers had told them. Some of them asked if I would work at Walmart so they could come visit me. If we can’t catch these kids when they are young, it is much harder when they become adults. We have to break the negative worldview they have where sexual/physical abuse, drug use, and lack of education is the “norm”. The only way to do this is by re-integrating our communities. Right now, we have an affordable house on the “good” side of town, since we have young kids and I feel that their education is important. However, we are going to be taking foster care classes, so we can hopefully reach at least a few of these kids and try to help them break the cycle. Another option would be to volunteer in a Big Brother/Big Sister program, or start a similar mentorship during school (our church sponsors a “girls run” and boy’s sports/mentorship program at a local elementary school. Government is just a bureaucracy, this is something that takes a community to fix, and the community has been ignoring the problem or unaware of the problem for far too long. Thank you for bringing this to people’s attention.
A few things I think are important to keep in mind:
1) Society will always have, and frankly needs, the “have-nots.” These types of people do the jobs that have to get done, mopping the floor, picking the food, stacking the boxes.
2) While I’m all for supporting the people, and kids, that have a desire to succeed. I think the small chance you’ll train someone to finally think they are worth it is a loosing proposition. For every 1 person who’s life you’ll change, you’ll run into 50 who will never change.
3) I agree that it comes down to the community, but in modern society, way too many of the members of my community are the “give me what I want when I want it,” basically, greedy people. No matter how many doors I knock on, very few volunteers will be recruited.
4) The poor in America have it pretty good. If you can read and write (and at last check 98% of our adult population could) then you can find a job to make enough money to feed yourself and probably find a way to get a roof over your head. In much of the rest of the world, good freaking luck. You’ll be lucky if one of your kids doesn’t starve to death in front of you if you are poor in sub-Saharan Africa.
5) I’m sad that we have so many poor among us. I wish I could help them all hold down steady, decent paying jobs. I think we should raise the minimum wage to $10/hour. I think all children should get a good education, not just pass them through and toss them onto the street. But, I think it’s important to keep a realistic point of view. We cannot, no matter how hard we try, WIN a war on poverty.
2) While I’m all for supporting the people, and kids, that have a desire to succeed. I think the small chance you’ll train someone to finally think they are worth it is a loosing proposition. For every 1 person who’s life you’ll change, you’ll run into 50 who will never change.
I would argue that helping that one person is worth every ounce of effort “wasted” on the 50 who do not change.
There’s an old story about a man walking along the beach tossing stranded starfish back into the water. Another man comes along and asks why he bothers. There are far too many to throw back in. His time is wasted because he can’t possibly make a difference. The first man smiles, tosses one starfish back in and replies “I made a difference to that one.”
I grew up in a working poor household. My parents were non-union factory laborers. I was born when they were 19. They used birth control but unexpectedly got pregnant with my sister, who was born severely prematurely and was in the NICU for 7 months till she came home. My mom quit work for 3 years to care for my sister until my sister could start in the county’s special education program.
My parents always lived paycheck to paycheck but we always had electricity and something to eat, even if it wasn’t tasty or healthy. They had vehicles but not new or nice ones. We had a house but it was old, uninsulated and tiny. I had clothes but not cool ones and sometimes things like winter coat zippers broke and there wasn’t money for a new coat.
My parents always stressed for me to go to college so I wouldn’t have to work in a factory like they did. I did really well in school and I went to Northwestern University for my bachelor’s degree. I worked for a while doing genetics research and then I quit to work full-time on a Master’s degree. I finished my Masters degree in a year and then worked full time in state government for 8 years until I quit to be a stay at home mom to my three young kids.
My parents still live paycheck to paycheck but my husband, our kids and I do not. We still live on a budget but our house is paid off, we have two paid off newer vehicles and plenty of healthy food to eat and decent (albeit secondhand) clothes. We have what we need and some of what we want.
I have a sister in law who has made major financial mistakes and is always complaining about her predicament. Her parents funded her college education so no student loans whereas my husband and I had around $20k from our degrees. Her parents paid for several vehicles for them. They adopted a large breed dog and often complain they can’t afford its food. Then the adopted a cat and complain about its vet bills. They bought a house they couldn’t afford and complain about the cost of its upkeep. My sister-in-law’s husband has major medical problems and they complain about his healthcare costs yet they talk of wanting to have kids of their own. It seems to me that they want to live in poverty, given the choices that they make.
Actually sounds like they are at he root unhappy with their current lifestyle and are trying everything they can to fix it. Everything you listed (college education, dog, cat, house, kids, etc.) all are things that we are told will bring us happiness, but it is being content with life that will bring us the happiness they desire.
What is sad is instead of bringing them happiness it is actually causing more and more misery.
if they were doing “everything they can” to fix it, they’d sell their expensive animals, downsize to a smaller house, and continue to put off children until they can better afford them. you don’t get to have everything you want when your finances are fixed, like most people. i too, can relate to too many family members with messed up priorities who overspend and undersave then complain about it only to tell me how “lucky” i am to be a stay-at-home-mom…never mind it took years of sacrificing and saving (including delaying having kids) to now have the “luxury” of staying home. too many people want a certain lifestyle but aren’t willing to put in the time or work to get it.
When my father deserted the family, it threw us into poverty. My mother had been a housewife for 8 years. I was 4 years old and my sister was 6.
On top of the financial hit, my mother “shut down” emotionally. We never heard the words “I love you” or even “happy birthday”. We were not allowed to bring friends inside our home nor go to their houses.
I think the emotional scars of poverty are worse than the hunger. Even as a working adult, I always felt like I was on the outside looking in. This might be what your friend Brandon feels at his various jobs.
Once I realized that other people also have problems, I changed from being a job hopper to earning a pension. Going into adulthood without the required social skills really hurts people when they try to earn a living. The lack of social skills lowers self-esteem even more since they result in rejection at the workplace.
Thank you for sharing your hard story, illustrating so well that we all don’t start out at the same place. Some people have much more difficulty to even get out of the hole, let alone making it.
After my father died, my mother was a single parent. I had an uncle who abandoned his family, which made my aunt a single parent. The effect of single parenthood was different on each family. My family was more secure, because we knew our dad had not wanted to die and he made sure he did everything he could to make sure we would be okay, even after his death. My cousins didn’t have the same experience, and it has been so challenging for them.
In the US, there are ways to feed a hungry stomach, but, as you mentioned, feeding and healing a hungry soul is much more challenging, with long-lasting effects.
I would like to add that my mother never applied for any kind of social programs. She felt shame at being poor and chose hunger rather than ask for help.
I think it is more difficult for children who grow up in Section 8 homes to understand the pride in being self-supporting. They only see the example their parents set for them.
I lived in section 8 between my mother’s marriages from age 5 to 9. Chalking it up to parental example is very simplistic. The kids who have a shot at getting out–the smart ones, the ambitious ones, the talented ones–they often get dragged back by their peers and family. I can’t tell you how many times my own mother shouted “you think you’re so much better than us” at me as a teenager–even after we were completely independent of programs. She told me my professional ambitions were ridiculous. She didn’t want me to go hungry, but she didn’t want me to get too much further in life than her either. There’s pressure in the lower class to not be “bougie.” And it’s human nature to fear change (e.g., leaving the life you know). It takes tremendous guts to excel in these circumstances.
sorry but yet more money thrown into these programs begets yet more people lining up to the trough to get their piece. In my hometown of NYC it seems you are a sucker if you are not lining up to get all these social welfare programs that seem to be throwing money at the “poor”. WIC, SNAP, Medicaid, welfare, did you know in NYC that all you have to pay is 1/4 toward rent in a NYC housing project and 3/4 is covered? I would think that it would be the other way around but I guess that makes too much sense. You have now 4 generations of women making babies and living in this lifestyle of 48 year old great grandmothers and all they babies. There is no shame anymore as EBT makes it so easy and just do the bare minimum as to be able to get all your benefits!!
I always wonder why people like you have these massive assumptions of systemic fraud, when in reality welfare etc. fraud is a very small percent of the actual payout. Beyond that, though, is it so important to prevent the ‘undeserving’ from getting ‘handouts’ that it’s worth letting decent people suffer with no way out?
Where do you see fraud mentioned?
GWB is angry that all these enabling handouts are LEGAL.
You get what you pay for.
Subsidize out-of-wedlock births, and you get more of them.
There’s a lot of talk on this thread about “understanding” the trauma of being poor. It’s fine – but not necessary – to build up poor people’s self esteem. In previous generations the poor lived much worse – but certain behaviors were less prevalent.
Guess what – Self-esteem is directly related to behavior. And the two biggest correctives to selfish, short-sighted behavior are social pressure and suffering the consequences of the behavior.
Yes – there is a positive aspect for both individual and society when people feel the consequences of their actions – and social disapproval for those actions.
It’s quite telling that the original post speaks positively of the “War on Poverty” – but 60s era “social welfare” problems have disconnected negative behaviors from their consequences, and weakened social stigma.
The result is a sad parody of “compassion” that does more to keep people in poverty than any “self esteem” issues.
I see no “progress” in programs that steal the money of hard-working people to mitigate the consequences of birthing that bastard.
Such “compassion” has destroyed the African American family, and a lot of white middle-class families as well.
You are arrogant and yes, that makes you insensitive. How many times did you write “get it,” as if you knew it all and others did not. This is obviously a very complicated subject and you are so arrogant you miss out on all the nuances of this excellent discussion.
For the original poster and so many responders, it does seem like a 70-30 rule is being seen here. 70% people in poverty might get out if there are some resources there to help. 30% are “greedy” and maybe a lost cause. I still believe in the programs that offer help to the 70%.
As a manager of Section 8 housing for over 15 years, I’ve learned these lessens.
1. 30% in Section 8 housing, do not want to work (unless selling drugs is work), and that number seems to be nation wide.
2. A lot women will routinely have children, from different men, not have a job (I think it is their way to have a loving family), no one thinks this is bad.
3. Before the EIV System, Fraud was costing the tax payer, billions of dollars over the time (I can’t remember the total amount that the government said) as it stands now, the fraud in unclaimed income is very high (no one claims the boyfriend living with them).
Could go on, but it is time to go back to work. 🙂
Since 70% of housing assistance recipients are elderly/disabled, your experience is outside the norm in 2014. The Earned Income Verification (EIV) system was a huge step forward and has saved the taxpayers millions, so I appreciate you pointing that out.
I have been in the business for about as long as you have, and while I’ll acknowledge that our reforms need to go much farther, I want so badly to point out all the good people our programs have helped. We help veterans, the mentally and physically disabled, the old (who for whatever reason, can’t provide for their basic needs), the parent who is finishing her degree so she/he can provide a better future to her/his children, and to the child (we have fantastic after school resources and sometimes even a Boys and Girls Club or like place on site).
You didn’t say what the 70% of the residents do who don’t sit on their butt/sell drugs, or who you think the programs should be helping. I hope you see the payoff from what you’re doing, because you do not have an easy job! Maybe you’re just burned out or manage a property in the south or a larger city where we have generational poverty, but my hope for you though is that you either start to become part of the solution or find a job that’s a better fit.
“as it stands now, the fraud in unclaimed income is very high (no one claims the boyfriend living with them).” [And no other examples given to substantiate the high fraud claim.)
Pardon me, but if no one claims the boyfriend living with them, how do you know there is an income producing boyfriend that they’re not reporting, and high numbers of them? You don’t say that x% (or even “a very high number”) of single women on Section 8 are found by due process to have failed to report all household income. It doesn’t even make a lot of sense, since very poor women are not all that attractive to boy friends. All the ones I know live alone.
I receive Section 8 benefits and I’m quite grateful for them. My health collapsed 11 years ago and I spent the first winter shivering under all the blankets I had (always had the heat on at night when I had money and only had 2 or 3 blankets when the axe fell, not enough to keep warm with no heat), terrified that I was going to be evicted and would die under a bridge somewhere.
Social Security and Section 8 saved my life and that’s no exaggeration. Don’t think my life was worth saving? I graduated summa cum laude from the University of Washington, in Theoretical Mathematics, also majoring in Physics, Computer Science and Electrical Engineering. All my work years were spent in in some field of engineering: mechanical at Crowley Maritime, mechanical at Ingersoll-Rand, and software at Microsoft. Wondering why I wasn’t prepared for this disaster? Well, I could have bought a house with all the money I spent trying to correct the problems caused by a failed childhood surgery, and the last 3 years before my health completely collapsed I spent every dollar I could get my hands on and saw every doctor who might be able to help, trying to stay healthy enough to hang on to my career at Microsoft, but I lost that battle and with it everything I had and hoped for. Now I am gradually healing and hope to get completely well and start over again. I’m planning to start in freelance computer work and want to help write open source software. I may do the open source first to bring my skills up to date with a razor’s edge before I make the freelance plunge. But one way or another I should be able to have my own company eventually. I do not plan to live this way when I’m 90 years old, and I have almost 30 years to get ready for my real retirement.
Anyway, I’ve endured quite a lot of misery and punitive injustice under Section 8 “management” of my living quarters, and I know all too well the kinds of prejudices they have towards poor people, and their willingness to believe and act on outright untruths.
So pardon me if I question the integrity of your observations as a Section 8 bureaucrat about the poor, which you only sketchily toss out without a shred of supporting evidence or logic.
Ely – you must work in the social services and hey, I would probably be fighting and supporting these programs if my job was threatened as well. Oh yeah, compassion and not being mean and cruel…yeah right, that pulls everyone out of poverty…
I find this sort of mentality frustrating. I find it interesting that your biggest problem seems to be on women with children. Yes, let’s deny children food and healthcare–what crazy benefits. Of course, if we want single women with children working, we need to provide daycare, because daycare costs much more than minimum wage–oh but that’s additional money being thrown at the poor. So in other words, you don’t want to provide any benefits to the poor, you want them working, but you just ignore that a person cannot leave their children alone unsupervised.
The reality of it is 76% of SNAP households included a child, an elderly person, or a disabled person, and these vulnerable households receive 83% of all SNAP benefits. People who are getting by on minimum wage just don’t have the extra money to save for retirement, for disability, or if one parent abandons the family, leaving mom to fend for herself and the kids. The middle class and upper class can set aside money for a safety net, but not everybody can afford this.
But let’s not raise the minimum wage–it might increase the cost of our Big Mac.
Where to begin?
Quote:
I find this sort of mentality frustrating. I find it interesting that your biggest problem seems to be on women with children.
————————
The problem is with women with children ON THE DOLE – women birthing children they are not prepared to support by themselves.
The problem – amply demonstrated by studies – is women with children WITHOUT A MAN in the picture… and that’s enabled by government handouts. It didn’t happen in previous generations of poor people because there was no easy government money.
Further:
Yes, let’s deny children food and healthcare—what crazy benefits.
————————-
Why should the government dispense these services? Who is “entitled” to receive them without paying for them?
Yes indeed – when I can’t afford stuff, I “deny” myself that benefit. Have you read this blog much – it’s about frugality.
Remember?
Why is encouraging people to pay their own way suddenly equivalent to “denying” benefits?
Shouldn’t parents wait until they can buy their kids food before having those kids – just as in previous generations?
Can you say “Entitlement Mentality”?
Further:
Of course, if we want single women with children working,
———————-
Nope.
We DON’T want “single women with children” to be prevalent or socially acceptable.
Get it?
There is a mutually reciprocal relationship between availability of daycare, school lunches, and other government benefits and the rise of “single women with children” in our society.
And that’s led to the sense of “entitlement” that you’ve demonstrated.
The benefits are paid for by taxing the people who got married before raising a family, and are working hard.
It’s “denying benefits” to THOSE people’s children. While entrenching the poverty of fatherless children.
Get it?
Further:
So in other words, you don’t want to provide any benefits to the poor, you want them working
—————————
— what do YOU want for them?
O.P.M. – Other People’s Money
– but you just ignore that a person cannot leave their children alone unsupervised.
—————————–
Why does “a person” have children before they complete school? Before they have married? Before they can support the child?
We now know that all a girl needs to do to keep out of poverty is NOT GET PREGNANT until she completes school.
If she marries before having children – she is almost guaranteed not to fall into the lower rungs of poverty.
There are plenty of “persons” going out to work while raising families – without government help. They are married and have job skills.
I definitely want to encourage that path instead of the dead end of single motherhood – see, that’s REAL “compassion”.
And part of the encouragement is not insulating people from the consequences of their negative behaviors. And dismantling “compassionate” programs that enable those behaviors.
That doesn’t make me “hateful” or “insensitive”.
Thank you for this. I couldn’t agree more with your comments. Your opinions are NOT hateful nor insensitve.
I agree with your menatilty; HOWEVER, who does not feeding the children hurt? Is it really punishing the person you want it to? or do you really want children to go hungry? These kids didn’t ask to be put into single parent homes. Also, I’m offended by the idea of needing A MAN (as you so eloquently put it). I believe in not having children until you’re capable of providing a stable, supportive environment, but how that hinges on the presence of a MAN (in capitals) is confusing. I make enough money to be a single mother, I don’t need some breadwinner coming in a rescuing my poor female self.
Nowhere in your post do you mention the men who are fathering these children. You’re right–they should be “in the picture.” They should be stepping up and taking at least financial responsibility. Perhaps your opinions are not hateful or insensitive, but they certainly are misogynistic.
I couldn’t agree with PawPrint more. Your obsession with young women “getting themselves” pregnant and wanting to make single mothers “socially unacceptable” is terrifying, and extremely sexist. Sexism in its most basic, Victorian, misogynistic form. I’m appalled by all the likes and supportive comments this has garnered.
Oh, please. The problem is that the MEN get the WOMEN pregnant and then they disappear and are not forced to be accountable for those children in any way. If the fathers were forced to pay all those “benefits” instead of the government, things would start to change. The single mothers are the ones who have to take care of the children. A family unit of a father and a mother in one household with those children makes all the difference in the world.
As the commenters above have said, it takes two to tango.
I agree with all those who commented on my post saying “it takes 2 to tango”.
However…. walk into your nearest Natural History museum, and locate the diorama showing our Neanderthal ancestors.
Guess which of the manikins has a baby hanging off its teats?
Reality is unfair…. but it is there to be observed. (one could say this is the flip side of “a woman’s right to choose”…)
This comes back to the “social pressure” I mentioned in my post – it requires social pressure (and an internalized moral code) to convince men to not just hang around, but to include involved fatherhood in their definition of personal success.
One of those pressures – and a great man-sorting device for women – used to be “waiting until we’re married”.
Welfare for unwed moms has weakened the justification for waiting.
So have changing social standards – for which women are equally responsible. Two to tango, etc…
If this were true, it’s just a drop in the bucket to the corporate welfare that’s dished out.
They’re both wrong, but we’re talking about poor people in this post.
GWB – comment 13 – Actually, that’s not correct. Residents in assisted housing across the country pay 30% of their adjusted income towards rent. That could mean they pay 90% of the total gross rent or 10%. People are considered rent burdened if more than 30% of their income goes towards rent. It’s the same reason that market-rate apartment complexes want you to make 3x the rent and it’s the reason that mortgages are underwritten with similar percentages. A huge percentage of Americans direct over 50% of their income towards rent or a mortgage, which normally leaves nothing for other basic needs. Check out the Worst Case Housing Needs study if you’re interested.
speaking as a teacher, inner city tutor, previous homeless shelter worker now stay at home mom who grew up in poverty but has no debt (other than a small home), a college degree, and a nice start on retirement savings, i think the BEST thing we can be teaching people is the value of delayed gratification. someone else wrote about impulse control…exactly. this applies to spending habits but also those things that spur poverty on (having unprotected sex when you have no way to raise a child (just say no), quitting a job for stupid reasons, dropping out of a school b/c it’s hard, etc.) nothing in this life is free and very little is easy, but future generations (and current) will improve their lot in life with paying for things as they go, finding contentment in the very little they have, and believing it’s their hard work, not a govt program, that will make life better.
Yes and thank you.
I find it troubling that no one has asked or mentioned why Brandon can’t hold down a job. Does he not have the skills required? Can he not cope in a work environment? Is he unable to get along with co-workers? Does he struggle with authority? These all require very different approaches. It seems to me that Brandon is not as disadvantaged as he is portrayed to be if he is able to procure all these jobs. Honestly, I believe that in most of these situations counseling and mentoring would do more good than government handouts and public assistance. People who has grown up with a distrust of authority and chronic instability need to be taught how to cope in this economic system. Otherwise, they will never be able to escape the cycle.
Chelsey, I am not sure of the reasons. I know what he tells us: “Not getting enough hours, I showed up late to work ONE TIME and got fired, I was injured and got fired…” You get the idea. But I am not sure of the truth. Does he have problems getting along with people, not understand that a job requires punctuality and dependability, or what? No idea. As far as I know, he doesn’t have any skills, so don’t be too impressed with the number of jobs he’s had. Most have been the gas station cashier, pizza maker variety. Dead end stuff.
None of those jobs have to be a “dead end” job. All of them can lead to advancement, getting money saved for more education, etc.
That is a good point. Thank you for reminding me not to be so dismissive of job opportunities. And thank you for reminding me that I have had several “dead end” jobs myself :).
I completely agree with what you’ve said. The problem I see is with expecting government to manage the “counseling”.
They would do it alright, given the necessary changes to current law, but it would be a disaster, quite likely as bad or worse than what we have now. For one thing, truly good and inspired counselors would not likely work for what a government office would pay them, and even if the salary was acceptable, most would not tolerate all the bureaucratic “guidelines” they’d have to work within. So, the needy who are crippled for lack of social skills, etc., would not get the quality of help they actually need and the problem would not be solved.
Add to that the probable abandonment of financial assistance programs in this shift of priorities, and we would likely be thrown back to a Dickensian society. From some of the comments here, it appears that’s what many people want. But if that’s truly the direction we as a country want to go, why even try to do anything about poverty? Just cut off all the benefits to poor and failing people and try not to bitch too much about all the beggars on every street corner and all tent dwellers who mar the neighborhood.
Dicken’s world was not a pretty or a sweet smelling place, where every home had neatly tended lawns and gardens. Most streets and residential quarters were squalid and dirty, filled with smelly people dressed in rags and lots of beggars. Even the ultra rich had to pay a bundle to avoid all contact with the great unwashed.
But, we could return to that if people truly want it.
Oh, you say, but what about returning to the America we had before the War on Poverty? Sorry, that ship has sailed. People had a self reliance and ingenuity then that people today don’t even remember.
Reliable transportation is another issue that is important in generational poverty. Even reliable workers who struggle with public transport or borrowed, junker or other unreliable vehicles are at risk for losing your job do to inability to make it to work. Community networks– specifically transport assistance through family, friends etc. — can really be vital. Reliable public transit, too, is something to work for.
I agree with you. When my father deserted the family, we lived in Philadelphia. It has always had excellent public transportation. My mother was able to get a job without a car because the buses/trains were so reliable.
Since moving to the south, I’ve noticed that people here seem to think that scum ride the bus. This attitude is probably why southern cities have inadequate bus service.
Not sure about other cities in the south, but San Antonio, my ‘fair city,” has modern, clean, plentiful and on-time buses.
Just trying to set the record straight.
I have no idea how to save everyone, and I am skeptical that it is actually possible. These problems are heavy with theory I don’t know enough about (sociology, economics, education, etc). Besides, this debate tends to break down partisan lines and people get entrenched in their positions.
I’m wondering about a different approach that applies more directly to PF though– what measures can Leah or Brandon take to help get themselves out of poverty, if help isn’t coming?
If you were writing a survival+prosperity manual for the poor– like that “surviving at sea” manual in “Life of Pi”– what content would you put in it? I know we have our PF basics here (“spend less than you earn”, etc) but this kind of blog tends to cater to the middle classes.
How would you adapt the GRS principles for a 17-year-old single mom? How would you adapt them for a convicted felon? (No, you’re not allowed to say “don’t be a 17-year-old single mom/felon in the first place”— start from the assumption that these things have already happened.) What do you do when the odds are heavily stacked against you?
Only El Nerdo could say exactly what I meant in fewer words (and with more clarity). Thanks :).
El Nerdo, I want to see this happen! It would be so cool if someone could tackle this topic and write something that’s both compassionate and informational.
And Lisa, thank you for such a thought-provoking article. I plan to discuss this later today with a few people.
I’d be very interested in seeing something like this as well. I have a brother-in-law that moved in with us nearly a year ago ‘for a few weeks’ until he found a new place to live. In the year, he’s had 3 jobs and been unemployed and not paying rent for more months that he’s paid rent. I feel like I have the knowledge to help him out, but because he’s family, I can’t bring the subject up without hurt feelings.
I got a double dip of the generational poverty by living with two siblings from a family that has struggled with money for their whole lives. I’m making progress with my wife, but it’s taken 10 years to get there.
The cycle of poverty is a very real thing. It can be very tough to get out without help. There are some government programs that help but more financial education wouldn’t hurt either.
Your “Brandon” character sounds very much like my youngest brother, let’s call him “Jake”. “Leah” could be my stepsister, lets call her “Lauren”. I grew up in a family of four with some abuse. My stepsister grew up with an alcoholic mother(who was thankfully not my mother, thankfully).
Our combined income when I applied to college was $25,000 for a family of 6. I benefited from a program that 1)Allowed me to eat lunch when I was a child, and then, on private donations and federal programs that 2)Allowed me to attend college for a minimal cost with a comparably(to present times) modest loan amount of $40,000. Of course, I thought that was enormous.
My immediate family of three now has a combined income of ~200K. I have a Ph.D. in science. I could be making more but I chose to have a child after I was employed, and slowed down my career.
I have no college debt,and no debt except my mortgage. I spent my entire educational career eating PB&J, rationing pizza, growing vegetables in a windowbox or garden,and eating fruit in season. I washed my laundry in the sink and hung it to dry so I did not have to feed the machine quarters. I spent my first years post college and in graduate school with modest improvements of my state of living (laundromat and better food) until my loans were paid off. I continued to live that way and stock up savings because I never wanted to live with food, housing or medical insecurity again. I met my spouse a few years later. We have similar backgrounds.
At this point, we have had half of my family and his live with us at some point, in sort of a family financial boot camp (which included professional counseling offered as needed) after lost jobs, foreclosures, divorces, illness and all of life’s ups and downs that happen when people live paycheck to paycheck.
Perhaps because I have experienced real poverty, lived through drug and alcohol abuse around me, and endured physical abuse and become successful, I am very frustrated with articles like yours.
I am not suggesting programs should be removed. I fully support programs. Some people can be saved. There are programs that enable people; I am an example of that. However,the bottom line is people cannot be saved from destructive habits until they acknowledge that they are responsible for every decision they make, whether or not they were a child or an adult when they made their decisions. Sadly, many destructive habits lead to poverty, despite the many many opportunities given to those who are in the state, whether they started in poverty or got their through drugs, alcohol, crime,etc..
I say this with experience. My family gets three tries with us–they can take a loan (Which we put in our minds as a gift and cheer if it ever returns), they can live with us for up to five years and receive financial support and psych counseling from professionals and learn to budget and build up over a year of living expenses in savings before they leave, or we help them with their new career search or schooling, or all three at once. After that, we push them out of our community of people we will help for at least a year or two. We have a success rate of 50% so far.
There are people who choose not to do for themselves. I put Brandon and Leah in that box. I also put my brother Jake in it. He has cost me several years of savings and great sadness because absolutely nothing I’ve done has helped.I have repeatedly tried because I know how he grew up. He has had 15 jobs in 5 years because he thinks someone is treating him “unfairly” and he always has an excuse. My stepsister Lauren is of the same ilk. We’ve given them both every opportunity they asked us for, and once we gave them options, they still chose to sit on their asses. They are why we know have the three tries rules and a cooling off period.
It’s time for some tough love on your part. Ask them why, in the world, do they continue to choose to repeat their failing behavior. If their answer is it is not their behavior, after you have already helped them get jobs, welfare benefits, and other social assistance, find ways to help their children and move on. I do think the truth is, that although hard times happen, there are a few percent of people who are in poverty because they refuse to change their behavior.
First, can I just say how much I enjoy the comments this article has generated. As someone who is definitely not polarizing in real life, it’s really interested to see the variety of opinions/stories.
Since I don’t know anything about you, Sally, other than what you’ve shared, I am going to make some assumptions about you. You escaped a bad situation. Statistically, you should still be there. How did you get out?
You mention methods to save money, but how did you know to do those things?
I am going to assume that you’re extremely intelligent, that you are persistent, that you probably are stubborn, that you had goals, that you were encouraged by someone (an employer, a teacher?) that you really were worth something, you were intrinsically motivated, that you determined that you were going somewhere else, and it wasn’t where you were.
But why did you have those things? Were you born with those qualities? Did someone else develop them? I am not necessarily wanting answers, though I think it would be interesting. But I do think that you have rare qualities that made you into what you are.
I have experienced many frustrating moments. I vacillate between wanting to help and wanting to just ignore them, because it makes my life more complicated. It is frustrating to put effort into their lives and then see them make stupid decisions again. (Since the article has been published, Leah is supposedly back with the abusive boyfriend who at least (?) helps pay the rent.) It’s easier to go on with my tidy, uncomplicated, drama-free life, instead of remaining involved with them.
But Brandon’s child is very special to me. And I think that if we put the effort into Brandon, maybe we can help improve his life AND the child’s. We haven’t seen any progress in two years, but I am not ready to give up yet.
Lisa,
You’ve made several assumptions about me, which, not knowing me, makes sense, just as I only have your online material to form opinions about you.
I do consider myself smart, and as you say, stubborn, but since that word has a negative connotation, I prefer persistent or determined.
However, smart does not equal rich or poor. There isn’t a single person in my family who is stupid, although they make many many decisions that I find ill-advised.
As for how did I do better? I’d have to say, it started with the day I finally understand letters=words=amazing books. Several of my classmates around me had been reading in kindergarten. I did not learn until first grade–and I remember wondering what they were doing, and how much they were enjoying books. I didn’t get it, and then, suddenly I did. I read all of the time because it fed my curiosity and allowed me to see a different world, and it opened doors for me academically and obviously, socially. I became the only kid in the advanced classes with bruises, occasional dirty clothes, and no friends. Teachers made a difference because they treated me as an individual with valid opinions that they encouraged me to express and they cut me a break when I was unable to finish an assignment because I had to work or had a bad day at home. I received further breaks by my choice of a college, and from government programs that help the neediest of students and that support scientific research.
I see you are a passionate concerned individual, as am I. The hardest learning experience I had was with my brother, which, was a painful experience not fit for describing to strangers on the internet.
I may be wrong, but from your post, it sounds like you are grappling with issues of how exactly to best help your neighbors to what you see as an acceptable standard of living, and how to do so, and opening yourself to discussion on this. Obviously, the answer varies from person to person.
I had two thoughts I meant to get at yesterday, that I’ve now thought about how to say more effectively.
1)I wanted to point out that really, not everyone can change in a time frame that I could support, and that will probably happen to you.
2) I encourage you to think about how much financial and emotional damage you can take upon yourself, and set realistic boundaries. You can change a lot of the world, but not everything. Your idea of how Brandon or Leah should live and how they should achieve that may not match theirs. Do as much as you can and that satisfies you without putting yourself into harm’s way.
All the best,
Sally
Sally, you’re wonderful. Wish we lived nearby; I’d love to know you. (I was also dirt poor, also remember the thrill of books at an early age, also have ended up on top of the turnip heap.)
This week’s topic has made me fear for the future of our country. Doesn’t it seem that 1) it’s a self-perpetuating cycle, always growing, and 2) those getting benefits are outvoting those of us paying for them?
I think the problem is cultural. Vietnamese who came to America after the war arrived with little more than the shirts on their backs. Koreans, Jews, Chinese, Japanese, and others, have something in their upbringing that doesn’t permit the downward spiral. (Yeah, call me racist.) It’s not until the mindset is turned around — and not encouraged through government programs — that we’ll see any progress.
Excellent comment. Kudos to you for all the assistance you’ve provided to your family members. I don’t think I’d have the fortitude or patience to take on such challenges. You should be commended for both your helping and your tough love.
Between my husband and I we have been laid off from probably ten jobs in the last five years. Maybe more. I should probably do an actual count. Not being able to hold down a job can mean so many things. We are working our way out of poverty right now but still are very much in the thick of it.
I think the answer is absolutely more than a government program. I think hope is what is necessary. People have good days and bad days but when you have try and fail, every time you have to try again is a little bit more difficult and I have seen people slowly give up. It’s an insidious thing, you don’t notice it at first, and it sometimes looks like (and can actually be) depression.
But for one person it might be subsidized education with the knowledge there is a job on the other side. For someone else it would be a job that could pay the bills. It’s going to be as individual as the person because we all have different triggers. I’m not saying anything about inner-children but someone who was hungry growing up is going to have a different set of fears than someone who was homeless.
Security is something that we, as the impoverished, crave. I know that my level of wealth required for security is much lower than, say, my friend who lives in LA with a dual income. She still feels insecure, but I have trouble wrapping my brain around how that’s even possible.
This is an interesting post with interesting responses, and I would like to add one more from a different angle of “what to do about the poor”. It is: TREAT POOR PEOPLE YOU ENCOUNTER IN DAILY LIFE AS IF THEY ARE WORTHY OF THE SAME RESPECT AS RICH PEOPLE.
I was raised in a single-parent family (due to father’s death after parents married for 9 years and all children born in wedlock, thank you very much) that straddled the poverty line, so bear with me as I have a clue what I’m talking about here. The poor are treated like dirt by the middle and upper classes. Every day. In nearly every situation you can think of.
The barista at Starbucks? Spoken to like an automaton except to be yelled at if the coffee’s not hot.
The clerk at Walmart? The glance conveys disrespect that s/he is “only a Walmart clerk” and “obviously” couldn’t do anything better.
The unemployed person waiting nervously for a coveted interview? Who else in the office wants to acknowledge them beyond the necessity of moving them along?
The woman in the grocery store with several kids? How many people look at her in disgust before pushing their cart away?
The kid who delivers your pizza? Do you treat him like a human being, or is he supposed to serve you silently?
I can tell you from experience: if you’re poorly dressed (because you can’t afford new clothes), you are treated like you’re of less worth than somebody in an Ann Taylor outfit (which may have been bought on a credit card). If you’re a receptionist, people blow past without even a hello. That sometimes includes the boss. If you’re the maid, you’re invisible, not really there except your cart is annoyingly in the way.
While charitable programs and education are sorely needed, I think even more necessary would be for those of upper classes to treat people of lower classes as if they’re of equal worth. Here I will guess that some readers will choke up. “But I’m better than them! I saved money, they’re on welfare! I didn’t have kids I couldn’t afford!” That’s not the point. The point is, do you pass judgment with snide looks, or do you smile and say hello just as if that person was the CEO of your company or your most valued client?
Middle to upper class people do this ALL. THE. TIME. They don’t even realize they treat those of lower classes as if they’re invisible or simply an annoyance to society. But the poor notice. They’re aware of it every single day, and it reinforces the notion every single day that they are worth less, not fully human by our societal standards, and “deserving” of their poor status.
And when judgment is passed on them by some richly dressed person – someone who thinks if they act friendly and smile and say, “Good morning” that they must be condoning that person’s life choices instead of acknowledging a fellow human being – the poor don’t go, “Wow, that person thinks I’m screwing up my life and s/he’s obviously successful, I should emulate them and I’ll be successful too!” What they think is, “Another rich a$$hole. F them. I don’t want to be anything like them.”
The worst thing you can do with anyone poor or lower class is to act better than them. The very worst thing. Middle to upper classes do this all the time, and they have no idea how much the poor hate them for it. They don’t hate that you have money and they don’t. They hate that you treat them like they’re not worthy of normal human politeness.
If you want to make a difference, regardless of whether you think government programs are a good idea or not, regardless of whether you can or will volunteer or not, try instead treating the poor you encounter as if they were rich people instead. Treat them with the same respect as your most beloved friend. Smile and say “Good morning,” to the barista or the Walmart clerk or the maid. Say, “How are you?” and spend 60 seconds listening to the reply. Make friendly eye contact. Give an encouraging smile or a friendly, non-judgmental word to the overwhelmed mother.
You might be the only person all day who treats them like a human being.
Thank you for this comment. I think most people are unaware of how much these small things wear a person down, wear away their spirit and their willpower and their self-respect, when they happen constantly.
Yes and yes!
I’m not sure this has to do with class as much as it does status. I come from a (barely) middle class background and have worked several service positions. One thing I’ve noticed is that people can be inconsiderate jerks at any income level when they see you as a “servant”. You don’t just get it from customers — sometimes management treats you that way too! Even good income professions like teaching and nursing face the “not good enough” prejudice. (Well, you’re not a doctor or in a STEM career, are you?)
IMHO, no one deserves to be looked down on for honest work.
Okay, I realize that “class” and “status” are often inseparable, but I’ve learned that middle class people can be rude to other middle class people in service positions.
I see your point, and maybe it is a “status” thing rather than a “class” thing per se, although you are also correct that they’re not always separable. That particular post I made wasn’t edited; that was just what flowed out. I guess I feel pretty strongly about the topic. 🙂
I work in a school setting in the office. Some of the rudest people I’ve encountered have been those who could be considered poor. There is sometimes an entitled attitude and a chip on the shoulder that no amount of helpfulness, kindness, accommodation, etc. seems to soften.
I can see this. I live in a lower-class neighborhood and I see this a lot on the bus. When you’re poor, you get treated so badly so much of the time that you do develop a chip on your shoulder and you can act entitled in an attempt to force some respect from society. I think the difference is that wealthier folks might feel that respect is their birthright, whereas poorer folks try to demand it.
But yeah, you find jerks in every social class. 🙂
My original point is simply that the less social status one has, which is usually though not always tied to how much wealth one has (or, for sake of argument, appears to have), the more one is treated badly by upper society. And when you get it day in and day out, it’s hard to cultivate a mindset of doing better for oneself and embracing PF tools.
For myself, I had a chip on my shoulder for years that was more like a boulder. I also lucked into enough middle class jobs (the kind that are vanishing in favor of highly-skilled professional positions) to rub shoulders with enough middle class folks, some of whom acted as if I were still beneath them but some of whom treated me like a human being. Thus began a slow climb out of poverty. Getting rid of the chip/boulder helped, but it took a long time of being treated halfway decently in life instead of like a criminal for being poor.
Two things I find appalling:
1. That there are so many people who look down on others, if that is what they do. It is also possible that they are wrapped up in their own lives (as are we) and simply focus on getting done what they believe they need to get done.
2. That there are so many people who rationalize a chip on their own shoulder because of perceived slights from others. We all have the choice to react to what we perceive.
I choose to believe that most people are basically good people who may be having a bad day, or an indifferent day. That lets me respond in a kind way (unless I am having a bad day). If I meet someone in a bad mood, I choose to make it my goal to make her/him laugh before our encounter ends. If I can, great, we both feel good. If I can’t, well, it isn’t MY problem.
I also choose to believe that everyone has something to teach me, and/or that I have something to share with them. So I look for that in each encounter.
I also look hard for something to complement in everyone I meet. A piece of jewelery, an outfit, something they accomplished. If they made an effort to dress up, I tell them that they look very elegant today. I smile at everyone.
There are jerks in the world. There always will be. The choice we all have is whether or not we will give the jerk power over us. Generally, I choose not to give them power.
Wow. I think I agree with you , though, although I hadn’t though of it in exactly that way. I know and talk to people like the mailman, the janitor at my son’s elementary school, my trash and recycling guys. People are always surprised that I know their names, and then I’m surprised that they don’t. Why wouldn’t you know and greet people you see regularly? A little more compassion and empathy and friendliness would go a long way.
fantastic comment Laura, thanks so much for sharing your perspective. i do make an effort to be kind to people but sometimes get caught up in my own issues. thanks for this reminder.
I was JUST talking about this with my husband. This is so much on my mind right now and in my daily life.
I was raised in a low income household, but always knew I would get out of it, and college was my path. It took me a long time, and lots of debt, but I’m in a great space now, working as a nurse practitioner doing primary care.
Every day I see patients who are on a life trajectory that does not include upward mobility. I see the teen moms, and under-educated young men, and hear about their low paying jobs, and the difficulty making ends meet. I see homeless folks as well.
I am intrigued by this conversation, and wanted to bring up another point. I see so many folks who’ve worked in back-breaking labor type jobs because of a lack of the right education who use me to apply for medical disability. This is another program that people turn to when they have nothing else. I am shocked by the number of 30 year olds who are trying to get on this program. If they are judged disabled, they will receive about $1200/month and medical insurance. Not a lot, but better than nothing.
What do we do with the teenager who doesn’t want to do school anymore? How do you get them to understand that they are buying themselves a life of probable poverty? The physical jobs are great when you’re young, but then your body breaks down and what are you left with?
As a health care provider, I am always dismayed at these applicants for disability. The program was initially set up for the blind, those with other physical or mental ailments. But a bad back? I can say that person can’t do a heavy lifting job, but they could work in a phone room, or in light retail, or something. But there are no retraining programs here, and honestly, middle-aged people with no education have a hard time changing careers.
I believe that the gap between rich and poor IS widening, and that the lack of family wage jobs for the folks who aren’t college educated is driving more people to dependence on multiple “programs”.
No answers here, just wanted to comment on what I see.
Serena (post 54) —
Disability is a sore subject with me. It’s so clearly an abused program.
I’d want disability payments to be given only 1) to those incapable of any work at all, 2) to those disabled through no fault of their own, and 3) for a short period of time, not effectively forever.
As you remind us, that’s not at all how it works.
As a taxpayer and someone who’s been working the past fifty years, I find the disability program legalized theft of money from my wallet so it can be placed into the wallets of others.
Hey Steve,
You know what I think, every time I run into one of you short-sighted, small-minded and mean-spirited people who thinks you’re getting ripped off by taxpayer money going to support sick and disabled people?
I hope you get something really nasty, incurable, painful and that robs your ability to function. And I hope you get to find out what it’s like to live when you can no longer work or even function well enough to make money passively.
I imagine you’ll be singing a different tune then, and deeply grateful you paid into Social Security.
Deborah, you may be right, I might be “short-sighted, small-minded and mean-spirited.” But my wife of 44 years doesn’t think so, which is all that matters.
If you’ll reread my comment, I don’t have a problem with disability payments as long as they’re temporary and go to those who can’t do any work at all.
A larger question is why YOU should give ME money when I can’t work. Why don’t I use my life savings? Why doesn’t my family help me out? Why not my friends and neighbors, my church?
Why you?
So, Steve, how long will you give a permanently disabled person to live before you decide to cut them off?
No fault of their own? How do you define that? Someone who decided to go mountain biking and sustained a severe head injury? Someone who had the poor taste to be born with strong diabetic genes, never weighed an ounce over ideal, and still loses both legs and her kidneys? Someone driving carelessly who gets injured?
And are you going to force someone to hire them when they are “too old” or “too sick” or “too stupid” or whatever?
And when their life savings run out? Should their spouse be forced to die, too, without any income?
Wow, Steve. Just, wow.
Based on my own life experiences and observations, the only people who rise from poverty or very low income are those who want it bad enough. My mother had that spark, that burning desire to get out. She married young to escape, and had a child (me), and when that brief marriage ended, she found herself digging back out from the bottom once again. She did what she had to do to have a better life. And today she is comfortably middle class, while most of her siblings maintain the entitlement mentality, raising children who will continue the cycle.
I inherited that spirit from mom. I became aware that we had less than most when I was in junior high. It was mortifying to realize I was the kid who was being bused in. I knew I wanted much, much more. I worked through high school and college, often seven days a week, and frequently doing jobs no one else wanted. Early in my career, I worked three jobs at a time. My drive was relentless. It took me a while to learn that it takes more than hard work, though. When you don’t have connections, resources, or the right social savvy, it’s a lot tougher. You really have to fake it til you make it when you come from nothing.
Just as I was starting to learn those lessons, a divorce left me with nothing but debt. And just as I began to rise from that setback, a tragic accident left me physically and financially depleted.
As recently as three years ago I was collecting food stamps and disability. It would have been very easy at that point to play the victim, declare bankruptcy, and give up. But that’s definitely not the life I want. So I climbed out of that mess too. And today, I’m proud to say I’m doing pretty damn well for myself. Looking back, I know that recovery–physical, emotional and financial–was very much a choice.
For those who don’t really, truly want to succeed more than anything, there’s not much hope. People are afraid to stray from their comfort zone. And believe it or not, poverty is a comfort zone if it’s all you know. Most people have a distinct fear of change, any change. And nothing great happens until you set that fear free and face the unknown.
The only people who will ever rise out of poverty are those whose fear of the known is greater than fear of the unknown. If those individuals can be identified and cultivated, they have a real shot. And they often get themselves out. But the rest–I’m not confident there is any solution for them.
Thank you for sharing this. You are the reason that government programs exist, IMHO. The safety net was there to help you back on your feet. I, too, had to use that safety net for a year when I became a single parent because of domestic abuse. Like you, I was able to get back on my feet because I had access to that assistance.
My mother came from a family of nine children and they were very poor. They didn’t have indoor plumbing until she was 16. Every one of those kids rose out of that poverty and went on to better things, in spite of the lack of encouragement and support at home. My mom would point to those being the days BEFORE all the government programs. There wasn’t a choice then, you had to take care of yourself and make a life for yourself because no one else was going to do it for you.
While a federal welfare program was not implemented until the 1930s, relief was often available–usually funded by local governments–in the 1800s and early 1900s. Single mothers in particular were often given aid in many forms so they could stay home and take care of their children, able-bodied individuals were given labor jobs by local government, and the rest (elderly, disabled) could get assistance at a poorhouse. It’s likely that your grandparents and their children did get support of some kind in lifting themselves out of poverty.
They really didn’t (get government support). They had a farm, which they farmed and my grandfather worked, but it often wasn’t enough. The kids all had to work hard on the farm (and the girls, also, in the house). Some of the girls, when they were older, went to live in town with another family, working for them as babysitters/housekeepers and making a little money. My mom remembers sometimes being the only child in her class who couldn’t attend a special event during school hours because she didn’t have the 10 cent fee (so she had to sit out). They made do and often did without.
It doesn’t bode well for Leah, with her past felony conviction. She might be able to hook up with an organization that helps ex-cons.
One really good thing you could do for her would be to buy her a norplant or an iud. Otherwise, she might get pregnant and subject the next generation to her mistakes and her parents’ mistakes.
I just realized that my comment is sexist. As Brandon has proved, it’s not only poor women who need passive, permanent birth control. It’s men, too.
So, I would also recommend that you pay for Brandon to get a vasectomy. They aren’t that expensive and they are outpatient.
Scalzi talks about what it means to be poor:
http://whatever.scalzi.com/2005/09/03/being-poor/
“Being poor is people who have never been poor wondering why you choose to be so.
Being poor is knowing how hard it is to stop being poor.
Being poor is seeing how few options you have.
Being poor is running in place.
Being poor is people wondering why you didn’t leave.”
This.
Two thoughts on escaping poverty:
(1) You probably have to turn your back on your family and friends, at least for a few years, to really make a run for it to get yourself into a better position. You can’t try to help other people climb out of poverty until you’re safely over the top yourself. If you try to help them while you’re climbing, they’re far more likely to pull you back down. Petty remarks, constant “Who does she think she is” and “you’ve gotten so arrogant since you did XYZ” attitudes, etc. Surround yourself with success. Get over the top. Then look back and help who you can. Some of the people you love most simply can’t be helped, and that will hurt. A lot.
(2) You will need to learn how to identify and build trusting relationships with people who follow through on their word. This will take time. You’ll make mistakes. But for anyone who is attempting to class jump, from poverty to middle or from middle to upper, you need to understand how to perform asynchronous bartering (also known as, doing favors for each other). You’ll have to learn to break the tit-for-tat, immediate exchanges to build longer term, sustainable relationships. You don’t have to repay a generous favor in kind (dinner for dinner, gift for gift) but you should repay them at the same “level” of impact. For example, babysitting so one of you can work, exchanged for yard care when the other one has a back injury. It will be VERY hard to break the short-term thinking, but you need to develop relationships where the favor you give costs X but the value to the recipient is 5X.
Like X 1000. This is one of the smartest and most accurate replies to Lisa’s original post. You are absolutely correct. I definitely had to do #1, and in thinking on it, you’re correct as well about #2. It requires such a shift in mindset.
May I share an inspirational story about a poor guy getting out of poverty?
Kurt’s mother died when he was 3 years old. His father re-married, but unfortunately his new step-mom wasn’t kind to him. On the opposite, one could call the step-mom downright abusive, giving him a very, very hard time.
Kurt ran away from home several times during his early teens, only to be collected by the authorities and the circle started again.
Kurt joined the army at the age of 17, back then the legal minimum age of joining the forces. He participated in several conflicts until he was 25.
At the age of 25 he left the army without any formal education of any value outside the forces.
He married and was starting a family while making ends meet as an unskilled labourer.
He raised 6 children and somehow managed over his life time to build and pay off a family home. He also managed to buy, rent out and pay off 2 investment properties, all while raising 6 children and working his butt off being an unskilled labourer.
All of his children received some form of post-secondary education.
It is worthwhile to mention that Kurt’s wife wasn’t working in any form of paid employment. One could argue that raising 6 children was the equivalent of 6 full-time jobs.
Kurt died at the age of 87 leaving 5 children (one died of cancer in his 40s) and 18 grand-children. He also left assets exceeding $1 million.
Despite having such a bad start in life and being a prime candidate for the poverty-cycle, Kurt broke the pattern.
RIP Kurt, my grandfather, you are always an inspiration: never complained, set goals, worked hard, and achieved them.
Sometimes a country’s systems let the people down. As a Zimbabwean, I have seen how corruption has created poverty and made it very difficult for even the most motivated entrepreneurs to succeed.
I like lending what I have via kiva.org. It’s a great way to get critical finance to micro business owners who are desperate to make a living. It’s my hope that these small businesses will grow thereby demonstrating to others how to get out of poverty.
Very thought provoking. Generational poverty is very hard to break without the support of the community or a mentor. I would hope the government would look at this issue and resolve it somehow.
Nick —
“I would hope the government would look at this issue and resolve it somehow.”
Anyone but the government. It’s government policies that have us in this mess in the first place. And where in the Constitution does it say it’s the government’s responsibility to teach self-discipline, having children after marriage not before, and paying your own way?
I submit it’s the responsibility of our churches and our media. Maybe also our schools, though the liberal mindset of most educators makes this unlikely.
The family has fractured. The rate of out-of-wedlock births are staggering. “Among non-Hispanic blacks, the figure is highest, at 72.2 percent; for American Indians/Alaska Natives, it’s 66.9 percent; 53.5 percent for Hispanics; 29.4 percent for non-Hispanic whites; and a mere 17.1 percent for Asians/Pacific Islanders.”
The voices of dismay need to be louder within our own communities. (Reverends Sharpton and Jackson, are you listening?)
But please, let’s keep the federal government out of this.
I don’t know that i have any answers. Life is very hard for in poverty. I know someone in and out of shelters. .. he can’t afford to wash his clothes. When he looks for work, he’s wearing the same clothes he has for a month. He gets food stamps but nothing more to help with other things. There are many other issues at play. In his family no one had worked consistently. How do you teach those skills to people who’ve never had working ingrained in their families? Who should do it?
Also this post did not show up in blogger yesterday. .. you might have had a technical problem.
what’s going to help end generational poverty is PARENT EDUCATION. all research shows that when parents actually parent their babies and young children, achievement gaps can close. as a kindergarten teacher, i know that when i get a student at age 5 who hasn’t been read to or engaged in conversations, but instead saw a tv as a babysitter, there’s nothing any school program or curriculum can do to bring that child up to speed. that child will always be behind in life. drs need to start including this kind of information in prenatal visits, delivery/hospital stays etc. our govt is better off throwing money at programs to educate parents on quality parenting. how to do well in school (and life) isn’t a secret. babies in low income homes hear 30 MILLION fewer words than their peers in professional homes by the time they start school. this is a huge problem.
There is a program called Bridges out of Poverty that has been very successful. There is an entire website and much of the information is free. It hits a person hard to read some of the issues because you know it’s real when you read it. The program pairs people with mentors over a period of time who help teach them how even the simplest of actions has a large impact.
Ruby Payne has a ton of info and books out there on just this subject. Here is a PDF file that addresses some of the issues: http://www.jalc.edu/cbi/meth_conference/2010/pdfs/bridges_out_of_poverty.pdf
Hello! Weird question… but relevant to this post. I am a social worker and I work with adults with disabilities, such as mental retardation, cerebral palsy, mental health diagnoses, etc.
I work with a young lady (in her late 20’s) who has a legal guardian and should not be able to obtain credit without her guardian’s consent. Unfortunately creditors don’t know this, and she has agreed to pay for cell phones, credit cards, home shopping network items, and college courses that she cannot afford. She has racked up debts in the thousands that her guardian is ultimately responsible to pay, and can’t afford to pay. Her legal guardian is working really hard to get her out of debt, and I was wondering if there is any way to notify credit bureaus that she does not have the legal authority to apply for accounts without her guardian’s consent? This is causing a huge financial burden for her guardian.
Any suggestions are welcome!
I fail to see how the guardian is in any way legally responsible for the debts. If the guardian did not apply for the credit, there should be no legal liability.
She should freeze the credit so that nobody can open any more. And get an attorney if necessary to dispute the bills.
I grew up “poor” (knowing that the little I had would seem like enormous wealth in other countries) and in the early years of my first marriage qualified for WIC and other welfare benefits. As you point out, sometimes poverty is a result of a mindset, not lack of opportunity or even skill. There was a time when I believed that there was no way out of the pit I was in and was tempted to resign myself to staying there forever. Fortunately, I was helped to understand the alternatives.
But that doesn’t work for everyone. I have a son who wants to be rich, but he doesn’t want to work in any way toward that. My husband and I were vilified for turning him out when he was of age. The “compassionate” family that took him in let him live rent free, encouraging him and counseling him — basically loving him like a son — until they also realized that he was simply sucking them dry. They gave him the opportunity to stay with them IF he kept a job for more than a month. He wouldn’t even have to pay rent; just stay employed.
He chose to be homeless.
It’s not always a choice for people, that is certain, but often it is. I think the real question is, are the people who choose to remain in poverty content with that choice? Sometimes we try to cure people of situations that aren’t a problem.
Thanks for your post. I have lot of interest in understanding this kind of thing.
I work with an organization similar to the mentor in a shelter program you mentioned and I’ve seen the success of the mentoring relationship helpful. There are definitely no quick fixes when it comes to generational poverty, but trying to help someone reframe their situation with the future in mind is the only thing that works. People in poverty are always in fight or flight and their choices reflect this – if I can eat today and feed my children today I don’t care about poor decisions (moral or otherwise). If we can help stabilize them and then consistently ask them about the future, how they’re saving what their dreams are then we can work toward a mindset that isn’t all focused on survival. I’ve noticed trying to develop a sense of gratitude is huge too. Trying to talk to someone about the importance of saying thank you to anyone who offers food, shelter, clothing, etc. is a great tool in changing the attitude. It’s tough work though, with lots of set backs and disappointments.
The author’s heart was in the right place, but forgot to leave the forwarding address for his brain to follow. People will find ways to be however they wish to be – whether poor, rich, healthy, sick, fashionable or sloppy. There is no legitimate arguement to be made about how “there’s not enough education!” Regarding these issues – rather, it’s a case of the individual not placing the importance on seeking/applying the information.
Best example I can come up with off the top of my head; go to any interactive/community type web forum and you’ll find people asking questions that a basic websearch could answer – but they can’t be bothered to look up the answer themselves. Ask any teacher how many of their students care abput getting an answer right the first time.
Until “seeking knowledge” is valued, the issues described in this article will continue.
Our community took a several prong approach. We had a teen pregnancy class for teen mothers to be. When I first moved here, the teen pregnancy was 20 in that year and went from that to 0 within ten years. Now the class is mostly preventative, but we still get one or two teen pregnancies still yet.
We also started incubator kitchens for low income persons. What we learned was that it wasn’t enough to get them into the kitchens to start their businesses. We often times had to solve basic issues like child care, transportation. These were people who were motivated to get out of poverty, but they had to be taught that they are expected to be on time, they had to be clean, and they needed to do the work. We taught them basic budgeting, bookkeeping, business, marketing, food safety, etc. The real problem was solving their personal problems and attitudes so that they could finally get to work.
I would like to see real answers. How does one get out of poverty? Maybe in another post we can see some answers to this question. I’m disabled and live with my (nuclear) family. We don’t always get along, but it does help with finances.
You pose an excellent question, Anne, one I puzzled over for many years after my health collapsed and I became solely dependent on Social Security disability. I really had no choice since my illness was so severe I couldn’t even do light work. I sold stuff on eBay for awhile, but as my health continued to decline even that became physically impossible.
I still don’t have a good answer to your question, though I’m becoming more hopeful and and I’m seeing some positive movement in that direction for myself. I’m definitely living better, saving more and getting more ideas about what I can do to increase my income than I was a few years ago, and miles better on all fronts than I was for several years after my health collapsed 11 years ago.
But it’s a long, hard road even if you’re not fighting against the restrictions of disastrously bad health. I started, about 10 years ago, by first keeping meticulous track of every penny I received and every penny I spent. For a long time that’s all I did – watch it come in and go out. And then I naturally started to see ways to let less of it go out, and to get more for what did go out. And from those observations my budget grew, tailormade to exactly the income I had and the things I needed to spend it on. No luxuries of any kind here, my goal was simply to have everything I needed, and no more than that, with at least a little bit left over. That little bit left over is what I saved.
I’m still a long ways from considering myself out of poverty, and I’m still well below the poverty line, but I have saved enough to start thinking about investing it. I’m looking at gold and silver, also I’d like to have at least one share of Exxon stock – and yes, many sidelong glances at Bitcoin. With the opportunities to arbitrage Bitcoin these days, one could make quite a bundle with only a miniscule initial investment. Or you could lose it all, but if it was only a miniscule initial investment, you haven’t really lost anything. (right???)
In the end, how one gets out of poverty is a highly individual thing. We each have to find our own way out, and paying attention to how people who aren’t in poverty advance themselves is a solid plan. The same principles still work, even if you only have a little to start with. But it is harder and it takes longer.
I also feel fairly confident in telling you that waiting for the government, your community, or the tooth fairy to hand you everything you want is utterly and totally useless. You can survive on those things, but don’t expect any more than that.
Good for you! For what it’s worth, I would just like to suggest that you take a look at this link before considering investing your savings: http://www.boglehead.org/forum
This is a site run by and posted on by people from all walks of life who invest in Vanguard Mutual Funds (Vanguard.com). I invested with Vanguard long before finding the Boglehead site. I am not a poster on the site, but have learned much from the various questions asked and answers given. I strongly caution you against investing your hard earned savings in silver/gold/bitcoins. Silver and gold can be a part of one’s investments (I have none), but they should be a very small part. As for bitcoins – not sure about them at all, my sense is to stay away. Good luck in whatever you decide going forward. And congratulations on your perseverance and determination.
Aw, come on! Where’s your spirit of adventure?
If I spend $10 to buy some (tiny) fraction of a Bitcoin, parlay that into a million bucks, then lose all but a few thou, what have I lost? I would lose $10, in any imaginable outcome.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
I’ve never had a big spirit of adventure! You can probably tell that from my response to you. You’re right – investing $10 is minuscule and if you should hit it big, good for you. My concern was that you were only looking at investing in silver, gold or bitcoins.
@Jeannine:
“My concern was that you were only looking at investing in silver, gold or bitcoins.”
Oh, I’m interested in investing in other things alright. As far as I can tell, with only Social Security for income and very limited capacity to do real work, the only way I’m going to get anywhere is by investing – speculatively and hopefully with perspicacity. I’ve always mistrusted the stock market, and will warm to that very slowly. Even making good in precious metals is a lot more risk and luck than maneuverability. But I come from a mathematics and engineering background, and Bitcoin is something I understand and can work with. There was a neat blog post recently (can’t remember who wrote it or where I saw it), “In math we trust”, and it was a brilliant exposition on why Bitcoin is the ultimate money. The trick is to stay as close to the math as possible, because as soon as people and particularly exchanges get into the picture you’re trusting them and not the math. (I’m looking at you, Mark Karpeles and Mt. Gox.) And staying close to the math is something I can do, although even the mental energy to do it will be difficult to come up with, since my illness drains even that away. But it can be done and I think I’m going to do it.
Good luck. I hope it works out for you.
The right kind of faith will move mountains. In WW2, many prisoners survived dire circumstances. The right kind of faith gives hope that we will not be tried beyond what we can bear. Honesty and humility. Many has lost jobs for various reasons. Rarely the extremely honest and hardworking employee. And of course the poor will always be amongst us. But the same principles applies to them too. Keep in mind that all forms of government has already being tried and tested. Not one of them has solved the problems of humankind. In many cases they took from Paul to give to Peter. But, there is always a but. Is it not the duty of every citizen, to finish school, not just scrape through your grades, but really applying yourself? That is not all. How about every individual making a point of staying out of jail, by NOT doing the crime? be honest. Really honest. Every system globally is maxed, overloaded. Big and small crimes, speeding, drugs, violence, abuse, accidents, the list is endless and amounts to billions of dollars or pounds or rands. What can you and I do to stop this insanity? This is taking a very large chunk of government funds. And flip the coin and you may find corruption and etc. Again a long list. What is the cause? Some thread mentioned selfishness. Add to that greed. And you may as well add ego. The “me first” syndrome. Life is really easy. Teach first ourselves a keen understanding of the Scriptures, and know where we are going, and why, and then we can lead our children. The root of the problem facing us stems from a lack of love for our neighbour. Brotherly love. The kind of love that breeds strong family ties and in its turn, strong communities. Look at the youth today. They do what they are taught. On television, movies, violent or seductive music, books, computer or arcade games. Poor role models, would you agree? No actor or singer or beauty queen can be a role model in the true sense of the word. Children needs strong positive examples from both mother and father. Its their right. Teach them that hard work is honorouble, self confidence stems from accomlishments, respect is earned, to give is better than to receive, look after yourself in a healthy way, to make it possible to achieve the optimum in nearly every situation. Hard work gives satisfaction and is an effective stress reliever. And remember a valuable lesson please, woman (wife) was given to man for a reason. As his complement. And they were given instruction to fill the earth. The earth would not be inhabited if Adam was given another Adam as a complement. Just a thought. I realise that in extreme situations it is logical to expect an answer to help generate an income. Sadly, though, in many cases we bring hardship over ourselves. Many would rather buy cigarettes instead of bread and milk. I know someone who is always borrowing, but she confesses to buying expensive lady magazines each month. and the smokers kiddies are regularly ill, frequently in hospital. And they (the smoker)also don’t plan for the emphezema or maybe cancer that will hit at a time when it can be ill afforded. When we are over fifty years of age, do we really want to work with everything we have for every breath we need? And then battle even more financially? What can we do to improve our circumstances? Can we be brutally honest with ourselves? What are we willing to sacrifice to live another day. And what are we making other peoples problems? Are we allowing our circumstances to control us? I have found personally that bringing my life in accordance with Bible principles has helped me in a number of ways to change my situation. There are many a blessing in prayers, but only when we act in accordance with what we ask for. What is written in this thread is not meant as criticism, it is not aimed at any group or individual. Most is from personal experience. I am putting it out there. Someone did it for me. It makes me happy to tell you, reader, to not just scratch the surface, but to find the root cause. Then we can equip ourselves to do something about who we are as an individual. And just be our absolute best, because we care.
@Steve,
This is where the short-sighted, small-minded and mean-spirited come in:
Short-sighted and small-minded, because you think all illnesses and disabilities are temporary and many of them aren’t. Do you think the guy who got both his legs chopped off by a machine is magically going to grow new ones? Or someone who has MS will magically defy all scientific odds and have a miraculous recovery? Also because you think everyone can have sufficient savings to live on for the rest of their lives at any point in their lives. If some medical catastrophe were to hit you today, do you have that much in savings? Maybe you do, but there’s more than adequate statistics to show that only a paltry percentage of Americans do. Most people don’t have a 6 month emergency fund, let alone a 6 year fund or a 40 year fund or a 60 year fund.
You wonder “Why doesn’t my family help me out? Why not my friends and neighbors, my church?” And the simple bald-faced truth is that they don’t want to. And I know that from hard, icy cold experience. They might help a little bit for a little while, but if you’re in it for the long term (I’ve been severely ill for 11 years and counting), they tire of it quickly – both giving you the money and you for not getting well.
A century ago family, friends and church rallied behind sick people, but we don’t live in that world any more. If Social Security Disability were discontinued today, millions of Americans would be dying under bridges. I know because that’s what would have happened to me, and I spent a lot of icy cold nights my first winter, shivering for lack of heat (and enough blankets), terrified that was exactly what would happen to me. A person doesn’t forget an experience like that, but people like you apparently don’t even have the imagination to realize that it could happen. And it would happen to almost all the seriously ill or disabled Americans if there was no disability support today. We live in very selfish and self-centered times.
Try it. You won’t like it.
Mean-spirited, because you would wish this fate on millions of Americans. (Or small-minded if you haven’t thought it through to realize that this would be what happens.)
“Short-sighted and small-minded, because you think all illnesses and disabilities are temporary and many of them aren’t.” Of course I don’t think all illnesses and disabilities are temporary. But many, maybe most, are. Unfortunately many/most of the payments go on forever.
“…the guy who got both his legs chopped off by a machine” should get a year or two of disability payments, and then get on with his life. Might sound cold to you, but countless others have overcome greater handicaps. Some of the jobs he could do without legs are, after getting trained or certified, working in a library, help desk, office, classroom, etc. In fact, I bet he’d rather do that than stay at home the rest of his life and wallow in self pity.
“…someone who has MS” is a sad situation, but again, it doesn’t preclude that person from being employed or cared for by family, friends, community. More to the point, though, that person’s affliction is not another taxpayer’s responsibility.
That’s the real philosophical issue here. You think government should take care of us, and I don’t.
“A century ago family, friends and church rallied behind sick people, but we don’t live in that world any more.” We don’t live in that world precisely because government programs have come to “replace” family, friends and church. I believe if we throttle back on government, we’ll return to family, friends and church. (And lower our national debt, which will ultimately beggar our children and grandchildren.)
Deborah, you probably think of me as some cold person with no empathy for others. I know myself well enough to know it’s not true. I voted for McGovern. I used to be a member of ACLU. I’m still a member of SPLC.
But over the years I’ve personally seen too many examples of disability payments given to those who don’t need or deserve them. The system is broken. I’m not saying we should close it down completely, I’m saying it needs to be reformed.
And that’s all I’m going to say on this. I have a feeling neither of us is going to persuade the other to change his/her mind, and I’ve got other things to attend to.
Hope you have a good life. Really. I know it’s no fun being poor. I’ve been there.
— Steve
Thanks for your response to the comments, Steve. All good points. I, too, have witnessed too much waste and believe things need to be reformed. It has become unsustainable.
Jeannine —
So there’s two of us who are short-sighted, small-minded and mean-spirited.
I appreciate your support. Maybe it’ll make the “haters” open to the idea there’s another side to this issue.
— Steve
Ok, I didn’t see this one from you until just now.
I’m very happy to see that you’ve put at least some thought into it, unlike a lot of others of your persuasion that I’ve met.
My problem with your point of view is that it’s too hard nosed, although I do see your point and agree with it to some extent.
It’s wonderful when someone who’s suffered a tragedy like losing one or more of their limbs manages to pull themselves together and get back into the swim of it. But to set a deadline by which they must, or just go die under a bridge somewhere is extraordinarily cruel. And likely to be ineffective as well. It’s hard enough to get on top of things when you’re that bad off, but to have to do it while you’re terrified that you won’t succeed by the deadline would spell disaster for most. I couldn’t have done it. It’s taken me 11 years to get this close to pulling myself out of the hole, and if I’d had to deal with the terror and the anguish that on day X I would have no more money, I just wouldn’t have made it at all. And I’m a fighter and a bulldog, which is the only reason I’ve done as well as I have. Very few people could do what I’ve done, and I’m proud of it. But I never would have done it in 2 years. Or 4 years or 6 years. And that’s the problem with setting arbitrary deadlines. Who is so all-knowing that they can say with certainty how long each individual will need to take? And everyone who has been struck down that low wants to get out and fights for it every day. If you don’t believe that, you don’t believe in people. (So why help them at all? Just make it a dog eat dog world, if that’s what you think it is to begin with.)
I do agree that Social Security Disability is being abused, and that many people receiving disability benefits don’t really need them. Partly that’s because it’s extremely difficult for Social Security to be sure how damaged a person actually is when they apply for benefits, and it’s their policy to err on the side of the applicant, so they won’t be guilty of turning someone away who really will die under a bridge in a year or so if they are turned down. I know when they reviewed my case and interviewed me they were very thorough and painstaking, and yet very compassionate. I certainly wouldn’t want them to be any more hardnosed about it. The entire ordeal plunged my health even further downhill for a good year or more as it was. Healthy people really don’t understand how draining and damaging it is on an extremely sick person just to have to show up somewhere and give an accounting of themselves, or wait in line, or perform tasks demanding energy and presence of mind. And it’s even worse for one who’s been starving and suffering for a good year or more already. Just how much do you want to abuse the sufferer to determine that they really are suffering?
So the problem of what to do about the abuse of the system is a sticky one. Certainly they could crack down on the shady lawyers who’ve found a new income stream in getting people approved for disability. I think that’s responsible for a lot of abuse. And everytime I’ve read investigations into these scams, I’ve wondered why they don’t simply bar lawyers from getting involved. I certainly couldn’t have afforded or have been able to hire a lawyer and deal with him or her when I applied, and I have a hard time imagining anyone in those desperate straits who could. Anyone who can afford a lawyer and is able to jump through all those hoops quite likely does not need disability support. And with Social Security’s compassionate bias, anyone who genuinely does need the help wouldn’t need a lawyer. Eliminating lawyers from the application process wouldn’t get rid of all the abuse, but it would get rid of a lot of it, without denying the help to those who really need it.
So these are all sticky problems, but running to the extremes to answer them is not a solution that will work.
” I certainly couldn’t have afforded or have been able to hire a lawyer and deal with him or her when I applied, and I have a hard time imagining anyone in those desperate straits who could. Anyone who can afford a lawyer and is able to jump through all those hoops quite likely does not need disability support.”
Oh Gods you poor, poor thing!!!! No. Oh, you did it the hard way for no reason, and you’re ignorantly condemning people who don’t needlessly do things the hard way.
NO ONE needs to go through the disability process WITHOUT a lawyer. NO ONE SHOULD. There is literally NO reason to do that.
Fact 1. Disability ‘credit’ accumulates from the day you apply, until you are approved as long as your claim remains “active” (this includes being denied and re-applying, as long as you do it before the stated deadline). If you are awarded disability, you get this amount in one lump sum, as “back payment”.
Fact 2. Most disability lawyers do not ask for any money up front, and do not take a fee unless you are approved for disability.
Fact 3. Federal rules state that they can’t take more than $6K or 10% of your first payment, whichever is LESS.
… You poor thing. :c
@Steve,
Oh there’s another side to this issue alright. It’s the short-sighted, small-minded and mean-spirited one. Apparently you don’t mind being on the pig sty side of the fence.
I support Steve. Too many people taking advantage of Social Security Disability. In my opinion, if no one cares enough to take care of you, then you should get the bare minimum to survive from a government program. And when I mean the bare minimum. I’m talking like $75 a month. This is quadruple the amount a huge percentage of the world lives on, so that should be plenty for someone to live on. There are free meals aplenty all over the united states. And, if you get cold enough, you’ll start walking south, to somewhere warmer. If we give everyone enough to have their own house, cable TV, a cell phone, and fast food every day, we are only doing them a disservice; not to mention robbing the rest of the hard working Americans that are supporting this hand-out. I give a large chunk of change to my church every week. And much rather take the % of my taxes going to social programs and funnel that through a hands on organization who know who really needs what; instead of some bureaucrat mailing out $1000 checks.
Why bother giving them $75 a month? That would still be a death sentence, so why don’t you man up and say what you really mean?
You’re obviously a stupid and ignorant person, if you think a person can survive in America on merely quadruple what people survive on in other parts of the world. More stupid when you say a severely disabled person can just walk to a warmer place.
You “hardworking” stupid people really should have to live in a world of your own making, just the way you want it. Unfortunately that’s not possible in this completely discovered and mostly already governed world we live in today. Unless you want to go subject the natives of some habitable island in one of the oceans that no one else would care to rescue from your grimy grip. But if there still is one, I suggest you all pack up and move to it. That’s what the Puritans did.
Let me be clear.
I am a social libertarian. I think our government is power drunk and out of control, and it needs to be reined in.
But I also believe in social responsibility, and that we have collective stewardship of our fellow citizens. This is only possible because we as a nation are wealthy enough, so it is a new social order in the world. Without this element of social responsibility, millions would die in horrible filthy ways, and precisely because the great majority of Americans are so comfortable and well off that they all expect someone else will take care of this grimy duty. Even family, friends and church.
You people who keep wishing for the pipe dream that family, friends and church will circle round to pick up the slack, like they do in less prosperous societies and did in ours before we became as prosperous as we are now, are simply ignorant of simple economics and social organization principles, most easily learned in school, but you could also learn them from paying attention to the world around you. (I think you could anyway. I didn’t do it that way.)
This whole discussion was depressing. It also made me realize that there are a high number of Americans that are selfish and arrogant weasels. To watch as people who have never been poor speak so knowingly about what should be done with the poor is nauseating…
I am about to embark on an adventure.
In just under two weeks, I am bringing a poverty stricken family of five into my home in an attempt to help them crawl from the economic abyss that has become their lives.
I will bookmark this article. I will revisit for advice from some of you that have come to understand this situation.
I will also post of the young famiy’s progress.
Pray for me or wish me luck, whichever fits each of you.
I will both pray for you and wish you luck. I hope you are able to make a difference in this family’s life and that they grow from your good counsel. I don’t think I could do what you are doing – you most certainly are a good Samaritan. I pray that this works out well for everyone involved.
Howdy All,
It has been over a year since my last post. That post discussed the poverty stricken family of five I took “under the wing” in an attempt to teach them how to live.
The scenario as of February 1, 2015:
The family of five had fallen to the bottom of the economic abyss. They were about to be ejected from a single motel room where they had been living off the American Red Cross, the local town trustee, and an area church. They had over $23,000 of debt(didn’t know it), no money, one part-time job between the two of them, $90 in their pockets, and relied on other government funds for food and health care. They had no car. They were about to move into a one bedroom shack with no heat (Indiana winter) to live with yet another poor family of four. The one bedroom shack was about 14′ x 20′ total sq ft.
Fourteen months later:
With my support, and of course my support comes from hours of study, experience, and communication with good folks on sites like this…………the young couple/family has many successes.
I also moved them to Florida. This is far, far away from past influences
Today, Daddy is working two part time jobs and could possibly provide a gross income for his family of nearly $30,000 in 2016.
Mommy has a full time job and will earn roughly $22,000 gross. Recently, she also qualified for all the full time benefits and participates in her company’s health care plan.
Today, and for the first time in the NINE YEARS this family has existed as a family unit, they are receiving no government benefits of any kind.
Their total debt is now under $11,000 and as an individual, Mommy has completely cleared her personal debt. Her credit score should rise to about 720 by July of 2016.
They are completely supporting themselves (still with my help in childcare and commutes(I have not allowed them to buy a car yet). They ride bicycles to work.
In February 2016, I had the young couple enter into a contract mandating change in their lives. These changes have been a major struggle for them. However, there obviously have been some successes.
To Date Observations (What I have learned and did not know about the poor):
First, they make more money not working than they do working. This is the most difficult thing for them to digest.
Secondly, there is more greed in poor people than in the wealthy class. I know that sounds crazy. This is the third young family I have attempted to help. Their personal selfishness overwhelms their ability to clearly think. They have no desire to sacrifice anything for anyone. They have never learned sacrifice.
For instance, the Daddy/Husband in this program sometimes refers to himself as a “paycheck and a babysitter” because he is working, coming home, and dealing with his own children. The entire story of this Daddy is a 500 page book.
Third and last for this post:
Teaching these two young adults to become functional citizens and parents is about changing nearly all their viewpoints of life. They were not born to be dysfunctional. The learned it. Now, they must learn the opposite.
Like Milo said in his post, this is a marathon. I thought I could do it in three years. It has become obvious. It will take longer.
And also like Milo, I will write a book when this is done no matter the eventual outcome.
I do not mean to sound arrogant or proud. There are probably Fifteen Million couples in the U.S today like my wife and me. If those couples would take a few years to help these poor families all over the U.S, nearly all our domestic problems would be solved.
My original contract with my young couple/family was a three year contract/program. I will try to post a bit more often to update readers. For now, we are on the road to real change.
Lord, this has been tough on me.
Another thing to think about is, people who have literally no money to start out with and possibly already have some debt may be terrified of adding to their debt. Sure, you can get loans and get a degree. But what if you don’t have what it takes to get the job to pay off the loans? A $20,000 dollar education is one heck of a sum for someone who currently can’t afford $300 a month for rent…
As a late comer to this conversation, a lot has already been said. Having been one of those poor kids in poverty, I recognize a number of comments that directly capture my situation when young. In the book that I’m writing about finances,in the editing process, I dedicate two chapters and numerous other parts to those in poverty. My parents struggled in poverty and excaped it about the time I left home. I was 4th of 5 kids. I’m now 60, soon to retire and have a networth of $3/4 million. It is possible not only to excape poverty but excel financially.
I think four things do more to help escape poverty than anything else. I will only comment on the first one here. This is directly from the book.
“One has to come to believe that it is possible to escape. It starts with hope. If one can truly believe that they can achieve getting enough money to eat, sleep, and pay all the bills, it will motivate them to do the difficult work of acquiring the skills, knowledge, and making the effort to accomplish the tasks to escape poverty. The challenge to them is to see and gain that hope and the challenge to the rest of us is to help them see and gain that hope. I don’t believe I have the finesse to inspire everyone to gather that hope. But to those wishing to improve the lives of those in poverty, this is an area on which to focus. Those in poverty need to learn, i.e. change their way of thinking, and begin to see opportunity where they only see shadows.”
This is the most important of the four and until those in poverty find their hope many of the things we do to help will for the most part be futile.
It took nearly 20 years after leaving home to change my thinking sufficiently to begin to truly build my wealth slowly, essentially over 20 years. So good luck with any support given. But it is a marathon not a sprint. Plan on at least 5 and more likely 10 years to make a real difference.
They don’t just need money, they need the love of someone(s) that is willing to get up close and personal and provide them the emotional security to begin to see and feel their world is a place of caring and hope.
hi Id like to know how you did this, for me it seems to be some type of fear, I can do alot of things so all I need is confidence in my self, when the economy went down this last time I went down slowly, never been here before, sincerely, Jim
Jim,
Please send a note to my email address and I will be happy to send you my book which will provide a lot of how I did it. [email protected]
I’m in Afghanistan right now but once home in a few months I will be asking up to 10 families struggling with poverty to work with me to see if we can help move them from poverty to wealth.
Looking forward to talk to you more.
Milo
Possibly set up a assembling products business on a huge scale with government assisted funding.Large conglomerates would ship products to you and have their products assembled.Quality of workmanship skills could be taught.Entrepreneurship and business development skills could be taught.All kinds of skills could be taught.Have profit sharing to keep them there.Run ad on what you are going to do and possibly someone will help with a building.Sort of press release.Many start on a small scale at a community center and grow to a full scale high profit business.
Just a idea.
I’m struggling to get out of poverty. At 32 I still hadn’t made it out the hood despite getting several degrees (computer science, computer engineering, database management, business administration, information systems & information technology). At the time (2005), I couldn’t find work because no one wanted to hire a black female programmer. (They assumed I was Caucasian she they saw my name. I know the look she I come in smile do the interview and hear we’ll all you back. They never do.) No matter how well I spoke or dressed or studied until my eyes bled for multiple credentials I constantly got passed over for someone with weaker skills. I kept hacking away at it settling for secretary and database jobs until they dried up because either I was overqualified or company sent it overseas for cheaper labor. I even worked at factories and the folks there surprised I was even there. Bills don’t pay themselves.
I pinch pennies, wear old clothes take the bus and ride my bike, I even moved back in with parents. But after dad died of cancer it was up to me to help. Natural disasters fire robbery and a house falling apart around you that should be condemned with a sick elderly mother in it is highly stressful. Her pension pays the mortgage and my checks cover bills (even with cost measures, like better bulbs and using the heater only she it gets to freezing, it don’t mean much when you have leaky basement burst pipes every winter and leaky roof). I’m lucky if I have 5$ if something else doesn’t break.
Then I hear go back to school or get better work or move somewhere cheaper. My mother can’t do stairs and those that are cheap usually have stairs. I keep looking hoping to find something. But Impossible when you’re working nearly 140 hours a week. Now I’ve been getting sick more often and there aren’t agencies or churches to help (no funds). My mother gets food stamps and we have staples rice veggies beans meat sometimes if there’s extra. We go to food pantries but most times there isn’t much there since alot of folks got their stamps cut off. I tolerate eating once a day since the food has to last a month.
It annoys me when folks tell me I’m not trying hard enough. I don’t spend what little money I have on extraneous bs because I can’t afford to. I’m at my wits end. My doctor told me if I don’t reduce my hours I will either have an attack or stroke out. I was on disability before due to getting seriously ill but I had to go work to not end up homeless again. I can fake being well. But my body won’t take much more. Even if I quit and relied on disability I’ll be in worse shape than where I am now.
And don’t tell me to put my mother in a home. I did that to my grandparents and they were abused at the facilities we put them in. I don’t trust the system and my mother deserves to live out her years in dignity. Is there any other way to get out of this cycle before it literally kills me?
Thanks for the info. I am one of those individuals that was never taught about money or the importance of saving or how to save. Now I am an adult with adult children that are making some of the same money mistakes that I made. What can we do to stop the cycle? I’m not sure how to turn things around. Am I too far gone for help. Is there still help for my children? I have a 15 yr old that I don’t want to make the same mistakes that me and my adult children have made. The struggle is real…help!!!!
That’s just it its additional help we need! it’s unity we need but God first I’m a witness to poverty single parent with two children age 26 lack of education but have to work to provide needing assistance to steer to the next level of Success
The question Jen asked is a question that needs to be addressed. How do you learn these things when no one is around to teach you? We have many teachers in this world, from parents to outsiders who have been in situations and came out of those situations do to wanted a better life. Seeing how i was raised and having a mother and step dad who played a great role in my life helped me. I myself love people, and i do what i can to help them. My team feed the homeless, give clothes and pray for the ones who receive. We also have women sometimes men group meetings once a month to communicate and help others with resources. I believe, where ever your heart is do it and thank God for making you able. Thank you and God Bless.
Ugh. I’m really confused on where this was going. You started off like you understood the problem, and then went straight to “all these resources are available so there shouldn’t be a problem.” That’s not even accurate or true. First the food programs that you mention (that I and my family are currently on) doesn’t magically pay for all your groceries. They even tell you in orientation its to supplement your food budget but not replace it. They expect you to pay for at least 30%. So the formula to determine how much aid you receive purposefully undercuts a families true need. Imagine being Leah and being told you still have to use that $53 a week on the rest of your food. She wouldn’t be able to and would still be living in a form constant hunger. It’s very hard to make good decisions on anything when you are battling hunger. Also, housing….ovey! It’s a FIVE YEAR waiting list for government housing in my area. What is a family suppose to do during that time? (we ended up evicted). Also, several non-profits that you mention to give away free clothes, etc. are so special interest focused they exclude a large portion of the population. Once we faced eviction we called many non-profits for help and were turned away by quite a few because they only catered to Hispanic families (I guess if you are white you are immune to poverty, all that “privilege”). Anyway….I think you need to re-evaluate your ending. It’s not at all a charmed ending like you suppose. The programs are only there to basically keep you from dying, but not thriving. It takes a huge effort from other devices, community support, friends, etc. to get to a place where anyone in the situation can truly “overcome”.
Sue,
Currently, I am working with a young family of five in an attempt to help them find their way out of poverty. My project began in February 2015. I brought them into my home and promised to train them using my education, life experiences, and business experience.
They were literally being supported by the American Red Cross, a local church, and the local town trusteed in the days before their “contract” with me.
I had been attempting to help them for years. They resisted for some reason. Today, I understand the reason.
This the third family I have attempted to work with and help.
They say the third time is a charm. We will see in a couple of years.
What I have learned about the poverty stricken (or so-called poverty stricken)
A. Most of these families have more in financial resources through government and private assitance programs than can be earned through hard work.
B.Working a full time job (commute plus work) takes nearly 50hours of their free time from them. They do not like this. They are accustomed to a very relaxed pace of life with their only emergency being a visit to a government office or hosptial emergency room.
C.Many Mommies and Daddies are pefectly fine bumming off their children. In reality, that is what they are doing when they live off all the handouts………especially the big Tax Credit Check they get each year from the government.
D.The Mommies and Daddies in these situations are very selfish. Seemingly every thought in their mind revolves around the personal outcome for them as an individual. I spent much of my life working with millionaires. Millionaires became what they are because people liked working with them (well, most of them). In my experience, empathy is much more common in the wealthy than it is in the poor.
E. I am familiar with the SNAP programs and distribution amounts in two states. The alloted amount for food (only food) is enough to eat very well. The states allocated roughtly $32/week per person. With eight people in my house, our “store” bill per person which includes cleaning supplies, laundry, toiletries, and OTC medicines, ALONG WITH FOOD, is $38.23 per week per person. We eat nice steaks at least once per week. We eat lots of fresh veggies. We eat very balanced meals. We eliminated most worthless foods such as tater chips and soda pop. We seldom use refined sugar. We are currently working to eliminate processed foods all together. That’s tough to do.
F.Most, not all, poor people lack a personality characteristic necessary to escape poverty. The have no personal discipline. However, I think I covered that when I discussed their overwhelming selfishness.
G.The poor are experts at external blame. Seemingly, they have no ability to understand how their actions lead to a result. If I am wrong about this point, then they are simply expert liars. It is either one or the other.
The last 560 days trying to help these people has been one of the most trying periods of my entire life.
To date:
They have full time jobs.
Their pay allows them to contribute their fair share of household expenses. (my contract prevents me profiting off them during our contract period)
They have removed themselves from all government assistance programs
They have their own health care plan through employment
They have eliminated 60% of their debt and all of Mommies debt.
However, given any opportunity to handle any money, they continue to fail. In 560 days, they have made about $7,000 disappear off the face of the planet. Not $1.00 of that $7,000 went to anything for their children.
I may seem harsh or even bitter. I spent several years of my life in the consumer finance industry. About 25% of that segment of my career was spent in the consumer collections arena. I have seen and heard nearly every lie a person can hear in a persons life.
Poor people think differently. Until someone, somewhere finds a way to change how the poor think, nothing will ever change.
Then again, Jesus said, “the poor will always be with you”. I just wish he would have said a little more about helping those who refuse to help themselves.
I don’t understand the point of this article. Even if you have a job like Mc Donalds you will live in poverty. It’s like being in a sinking ship. You will never prosper. Teaching people to be poor is useless. That’s something globalization teaches. Only a few prosper.