Book review: Meet the Frugalwoods

Meet the Frugalwoods There are a lot of great personal finance books out there — here are a few of my favorites — but despite the diversity of titles (and subject matter), they all share a remarkably similar format. These books are money manuals in which the author shares prescriptive advice. They tell the reader how to get from point A to point B.

From time to time, somebody will publish a book like David Chilton’s The Wealthy Barber, which provides financial advice in the guise of a story, but these attempts are very, very rare. (It’s a bit ironic that one of the oldest, most revered personal finance books — The Richest Man in Babylon — is story based, yet few have followed in its footsteps.)

All this is to say: For years, I’ve believed there’s a hole in the market waiting to be filled, a place for a story-based book about money.

Enter Meet the Frugalwoods, the brand new book from Elizabeth Willard Thames. Liz writes the excellent Frugalwoods blog, which chronicles her young family’s experience with extreme frugality. (Her site also documents their adventures owning a 66-acre homestead in rural Vermont, a subject I love.)

Meet the Frugalwoods isn’t a money manual. It isn’t fiction. It’s memoir. The book covers ten years in the lives of Liz and her husband Nate, from their post-college job-hunting experiences in Kansas to purchasing the afore-mentioned Vermont homestead.

Through their story, Liz shows readers it’s possible to move from a life of consumerism to a life built around frugality and purpose.

In some ways, the book seems to contradict the blog. On the blog, Liz maintains that she and Nate have always been savers: “Mr. Frugalwoods and I have always been frugal — it’s just how we’re wired.” In the book, she paints a picture of a couple that succumbs to run-of-the-mill American consumerism before being liberated by a philosophy of extreme frugality.

A Regular Middle-Class Lifestyle

After graduating from the University of Kansas in 2006, Liz and Nate experienced typical young adult struggles. While he got job using the skills he’d developed, Liz struggled to find work that made use of her degrees in political science and creative writing. As a stop-gap measure, she took a position preparing files for digitization in a document scanning center. (This reminds me of the worst job I ever had, selling insurance door to door after I graduated from college. Haha.)

In a quest for more meaningful work, Liz took a position with AmeriCorps in New York City. Her job was to raise money for a small non-profit organization. The experience was formative. It taught her the essence of extreme frugality. (Her monthly food budget was her $120 food stamp allotment. She ate on four dollars per day!) Still, she managed to save $2000 of her $10,000 annual salary.

Liz lived in the Crown Heights neighborhood of Brooklyn, where people were poor and struggled to get by. During the day, however, she hobnobbed with billionaires, seeking contributions to her non-profit. It was a jarring juxtaposition.

In time, she moved to Boston to be with Nate (who had found work there as a computer programmer). She found a job doing fund-raising for WGBH, Boston’s public broadcasting station. They fell into a regular middle-class lifestyle, complete with lifestyle inflation.

I was promoted to senior development associate, accompanied by a raise, and decided to start getting my hair cut at a chic salon in Harvard Square that a woman in my office recommended. They massaged my neck, brought me herbal tea, washed my hair, cut and styled it, for just $120. The fact that I used to eat for an entire month on that same dollar amount didn’t register at the time. I worked hard, so I reasoned I deserved to treat myself. What was the point of this job otherwise?

Over the next few years, Liz and Nate moved to Washington, D.C. — and then back to Boston. Liz went back to school to get a masters in public administration. They bought a house. They got a dog. From the outside, everything seemed rosy. On the inside, however, it felt like something was missing.

“We stopped micromanaging our spending,” Liz writes. “By which I mean I had no clue what we spend in any given week, month, or year.” But the increased spending didn’t bring increased happiness.

Now that I’d experienced a life of spending $40 a week on artisanal cheeses and $120 on haircuts and $200 on dinners out, I realized it wasn’t what I wanted. What was the point of being able to buy whatever I wanted if I didn’t control my time?

Something had to give.

An Epiphany (or Two)

The Frugalwoods Like me, Liz notes the dates of important events in her life. On 21 May 2011, on a day she was feeling particularly flustered, Nate suggested that they go for a hike. “After an hour and half on the trail, I began crying with relief,” Liz writes. “I felt an absence of pressure for perhaps the first time in my life.”

Although this small epiphany led the couple to spend more time outdoors (and to question their consumer tendencies), they still had a few years to go before they’d experience their big breakthrough.

On 29 March 2014, Liz and Nate agreed to discard the life they were building and move to the woods instead. They crunched the numbers. If they embarked on a crusade of extreme frugality, they figured they could be financially independent by 2017. And when they achieved financial independence, “we’d have enough money to move to a homestead in the woods-filled countryside of Vermont.”

They dove into extreme frugality with gusto.

On their quest to squash as many expenses as possible, Liz and Nate employed a variety of methods.

  • They used barter and trade, exchanging goods and services. When Liz decided she couldn’t live without yoga, for instance, she trained to become an assistant at the studio she attended. In exchange for her time, she saved $288 in class fees every month.
  • They became masters of DIY. With the internet at their side, Liz and Nate learned to remodel their home, repair and upgrade appliances, and give each other haircuts.
  • They became Craigslist masters, patiently waiting for the things they wanted and needed to be offered for cheap. This saved them big bucks on furniture — and more.
  • They started salvaging — or “rescuing”, as Liz puts it — used items, such as lamps and dressers set out for trash pick-up.

“These types of frugal substitutions and alternatives were all around us,” Liz writes. “We marveled at everything we’d been unwittingly overpaying for. By bringing creativity and ingenuity to our consumption, we were able to drastically reduce our overall spending.”

She continues:

I don’t think the route to successful frugality entails brutally slashing everything from your budget, because you’re bound to end up in that deprived state…Rather, the key is to identify less expensive options that’ll yield the same or a similar end result. Thus, you end up not feeling deprived, you save a boatload of money, and you are then motivated to find more opportunities for dramatic changes…

And then she makes what I consider the most important point of the entire book: “Since we were working toward an ever-crystallizing goal of decamping to the woods, frugality wasn’t about what we were giving up; it was entirely about what we were going to gain.”

Exactly.

Finding Freedom

In Twilight of the Idols, Friedrich Nietszche wrote, “He who has a why to live for can bear almost any how.” This is why I’m so insistent that GRS readers take some time to think about what they want out of life, to craft a personal mission statement.

Their new-found frugality allowed Liz and Nate to regain control of their lives. “Frugality gave us options,” she writes. The less they spent and the more they saved, the more control they had over their destiny. She continues:

It’s a virtuous cycle of low spending and high saving that’s self-perpetuating. The less money you need to live on, the more you save, and the less you need to earn.

The next two years brought a lot of changes. Rather than resenting the process of extreme frugality, they found that they enjoyed it. (“Like, a lot.”) They began prepping their Boston home to act as a future rental property. They diligently scoured the Vermont real estate listings, hunting for suitable properties. And they welcomed the birth of their first child.

Along the way, they documented their experience at a blog they dubbed Frugalwoods.

In late 2015, after just over eighteen months of saving, Liz and Nate toured an almost-perfect property. Located on 66 acres in central Vermont, it was close enough to civilization that they’d have access to everything they needed (and wanted). It wasn’t crowded by neighbors, was wired for high-speed internet, and included lots and lots of trees. They bought the place. In January 2016, they moved in.

Liz and Nate’s story is inspiring. I like reading how people find purpose, then restructure their lives to achieve their goals. And I like reading about evolving relationships with money. “Money doesn’t make you happy,” Liz writes in Meet the Frugalwoods, “but money provides the freedom to find out what does make you happy.”

The Frugal Homestead

A Missing Piece to the Puzzle

Meet the Frugalwoods isn’t perfect. To my mind, it’s too much of a memoir and not enough of a money manual. Because it’s so much about Liz and Nate’s story, there’s very little information on how others can do what they did. In some ways, it seems like a black box: “Cut back on spending for 21 months and you can buy a farm in Vermont!” Obviously, there’s much more to the process than that.

“There are actually only three variables in the financial independence equation: income, expenses, and time,” Liz writes. Yes! She talks some about time in Meet the Frugalwoods, but the rest of the book is all about expenses. The book focuses far too much on “defense” (expenses) and not enough on “offense” (income). In fact, there’s nothing about income here. It’s like giving a recipe for baking bread but failing to mention you need yeast.

Liz doesn’t share detailed income and spending numbers after 2008 (at which time they were earning $69,730 take-home), but it’s clear that their household income grew quickly from these entry-level positions. Despite a consumer lifestyle, she and Nate were still able to save a ton.

Before they began their excursion into extreme frugality, while they were enjoying $120 haircuts and $200 restaurant meals, the couple was already saving between 40% and 50% of their after-tax income (and that doesn’t even count maxed-out 401(k) contributions and mortgage principal!). Once they kicked their frugal efforts into high gear, their saving rate peaked at 82%. (According to the blog, their saving rate was over 93% if you count 401(k) contributions.) They were able to achieve financial independence in just over eighteen months.

Liz and Nate embarked on their adventures into extreme frugality on 29 March 2014. They submitted an offer for their Vermont homestead on 23 November 2015 (and closed the deal on 15 January 2016). That’s a pretty quick turnaround.

The only real acknowledgement of the role income played in the process comes during the book’s introduction: “In order to save large amounts of money, you have to have a sufficient amount of money coming in,” Liz writes. “You can’t frugalize income you don’t earn.” That’s great, but it comes in the midst of a seven-page apology for “privilege” and not in the meat of the book. I think it’s a vitally important point, and the fact that the subject is wholly missing from Meet the Frugalwoods is a mystery to me.

Tell us more! Give us details! Show us how others can do the same thing! There’s no shame in earning a lot of money. Why hide it?

A little sleuthing turned up some numbers from which we can make some extrapolations. According to this Forbes article, during 2014 Liz and Nate spent $13,000 on non-mortgage expenses and their mortgage payments amounted to around $24,000. Because their saving rate was 71%, that means this $37,000 represents 29% of their take-home pay. Plus they maxed out their 401(k)s, which is another $35,000. More math shows that the Frugalwoods’ after-tax income was probably around $162,000 in 2014 and they were able to save in the neighborhood of $125,000. Nice!

The Bottom Line

Look, my complaint about the lack of income info isn’t meant as a knock against Liz. She’s one of my favorite people in the financial blogging universe. What it does mean, however, is that the target audience for this book is not a person struggling to get by on a low salary, which is what you’d typically expect the readership of a frugality book to be. (If that describes you, check out Your Playbook for Tough Times by Donna Freedman.)

If you’re in a two-income household with typical salaries, however, you can apply the book’s lessons (perhaps on a smaller scale) to pursue your goals. And if, like Liz and Nate, you’re well-educated with high incomes, you can absolutely achieve financial independence in a short time — if you’re willing to make the short-term sacrifices necessary to get there.

Meet the Frugalwoods is a welcome addition to the ever-expanding library of personal finance literature. It covers a relatively new topic (financial independence) in a relatively new way (story). Liz and Nate’s story will be relatable for many people. It’s my hope that through her experience, she’ll help a lot of new folks discover the path to financial freedom.

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There are 36 comments to "Book review: Meet the Frugalwoods".

  1. S.G. says 07 March 2018 at 08:45

    Frugalwoods is probably my second favorite financial blog, behind GRS and tied with Physician on FIRE. I’ve noticed the same thing about seeming to shy away from reporting on income. My other complaint is that they consider themselves retired, but I believe Mr Frugalwoods is still working, or at least he was the last time I took note of their status (though I freely admit I could have read between the lines incorrectly). But I’ve already confessed to being a member of the “retirement police” (a subset of “word police”, of which I am also a member).

    I also find it interesting that I am not entirely sure what Mr. Frugalwoods does. I believe he is some kind of network administrator or other programming or network geek. This is nice because that is a job you can do remotely and take advantage of geographic arbitrage, AND make significant amounts of money, even working PT. There is nothing wrong with this. But I think you are right that it feeds into the “income” side. I assume they don’t share it because a) they seem sensitive to their privilege, and b) it leaves them open to the classic “of course it’s easy for you. You have advantage [xyz]” attack so prevalent on FI stories.

    • J.D. says 07 March 2018 at 09:20

      I love Frugalwoods too. It’s a great site. And having met Liz (and Nate) in person, I think they’re awesome. Based on the book, Nate does something that combines both political science and computer programming. Not sure what they means exactly…

      Based on what I know of Liz, I suspect the lack of income reporting is primarily due to what I’ve called the guilt of wealth. She’s very sensitive that other people are not as fortunate as she is. They haven’t had the same opportunities and they don’t make as much money. This fills her with angst (I’m guessing). I get it. It’s something that many people wrestle with. I’ve wrestled with it myself. But the conclusion I’ve come to is that feeling guilty doesn’t do any good.

      And yes, you are part of the retirement police haha. I’m actually glad that you are. Even though you and I disagree on this, I like having your perspective so prominent around here.

      • Cory J says 11 March 2018 at 17:06

        I read the preview of her book and was immediately put off by the soapbox she jumped on about privileged.

        > Nate does something that combines both political science and computer programming. Not sure what they means exactly…

        You piqued my interest, so I looked into a bit. It seems he worked the DNC’s fundraising arm “ActBlue”

        https://secure.actblue.com/about

  2. Fervent Finance says 07 March 2018 at 09:54

    I’ve been reading the Frugalwoods blog since the beginning. Love their story. I plan on reading the book as well. With that said, I definitely agree with you on only sharing half of the equation. It’s tough to sell a lifestyle and frugality when income isn’t shared as well. I believe from an older post Liz shared they were both six figure income earners.

    Also, a reason that pushed them into FI so quickly is they bought their home in Cambridge and realized a ton of appreciation in a few short years. That enabled them to rent it out and I believe it’s cash flowing for at least couple thousand per month. Not everyone will be able to buy a home, turn around a few years later and rent it out for way more than their mortgage. (Apologies if I got any of this incorrect)

    All this doesn’t take away from their successes. They have a great story to tell. I just think you need to know these things as well. Frugality alone won’t get you a nice house in the country on 60 acres if you don’t have a high income (or you’re patient and willing to wait 30+ years).

  3. Cindi says 07 March 2018 at 10:16

    I found that anyone dispensing financial advice, without also divulging their actual numerical numbers are just people to pass by. Otherwise, whatever they say makes no sense. If, for whatever reason, actual figures aren’t dispensed, then to me, that means they aren’t telling the truth, the whole truth. They have something to hide. Are ashamed of something or other and are not authentic.
    Why would I take advice from people like that?
    MMM (Mr. Money Mustache) not only gives you his dollar amounts, but a spread sheet to go with it!
    I’ve read this couple’s blog. Once or twice.
    Then I moved on.
    To reality.
    Frugality got me a nice home ($135K) in the Hamptons.
    I held on to that home for 16 years, as hubby and I fixed it up.
    Sold it for a very high six figure and retired a millionaire in 2001.
    Figure it out.
    So, yes! Frugality will get you a nice house if you don’t have a high income.
    I never made more than $28,000 a year.
    I have two college degrees (AA and AAS).
    Happily retired @50 and live on $30 to $35,000 a year.
    And I own two vacation homes now. No mortgages. No debt.
    It’s people like me, who made less than $50K (combined with spouse) a year, that made themselves FI that I am interested in.
    Their stories IMHO are amazing.
    Someone earning $162,000 a year, on 60 acres in Vermont is a joke.
    Sort of like Donald Trump going frugal.
    Ridiculous.

    • NotCindi says 07 March 2018 at 12:34

      I’m not quite sure where the hostility here is coming from (“Someone earning $162,000 a year, on 60 acres in Vermont is a joke”), but the reality is, they don’t owe you an explanation. Their experience IS reality. They went to college and got degrees, worked at real life jobs in a region where their skills were in demand and paid accordingly. Lots of people out there like them.

      Living in the Hamptons is great, but you likely sacrificed earning power for lifestyle at the beginning (ie before retirement) as opposed to post retirement. and so what if he is still working? Good for him that he was able to eliminate his commute and move to an area where they have a lifestyle they enjoy.

      I’m sure you were VERY happy living in the Hamptons all summer with trust fund kids driving daddy’s Porsche.

      • notCindyeither says 07 March 2018 at 18:53

        Didn’t a first marriage into money and a later inheritance play a large part in your money over time? Yes, you and your second husband have worked hard and been frugal, but that leg up is an important (and good) part of the story. There are many paths to FI. There are many ways to stay FI once you reached a major goal. Being frugal and resourceful is what I take away from the Frugalwoods.

    • ISR says 07 March 2018 at 19:11

      Cindi, you say “It’s people like me, who made less than $50K (combined with spouse) a year, that made themselves FI that I am interested in” – but then you say you admire MMM and his blog. He made a lot more than that before he retired if I remember correctly. Yes, the Frugalwoods were privileged and had good incomes, but so do many if not most people in the FIRE community if you read their blogs carefully. That doesn’t mean that they don’t have something to share. I don’t quite understand why you specifically hate the Frugalwoods, they have one of the best blogs out there if one is interested in early or partial retirement.

      • J.D. says 07 March 2018 at 20:36

        Reading your comment made me think, “I wish I were more like Liz and less like me.” I think she (and Nate) model a life and lifestyle I aspire to. I’m still too consumeristic…

    • Tom says 15 March 2018 at 08:56

      Cindi, congratulations to achieving what you have achieved.
      And yes, you are completely right about this “Mrs. Frugalwoods” pseudo early retirement “scam”. Not only make they 162k, but in 2014 he mad alone 230k. Its published as he is the executive director of Actblue. Therefore the entire Frugalwoods story is just a “story” made up to gain revenue.
      Congratulations again to you.

  4. Anne says 07 March 2018 at 12:12

    I have read the Frugalwoods blog a time or two and they seem like lovely people and I would not want to denigrate them in any way.

    However, the message I’m getting from your summation of their book is that they have had a great deal of trouble finding happiness in life. They moved and changed jobs a number of times in a fairly short period of time.

    I’m happy that they’re happy in rural Vermont, but they have only been there a couple of years. How is this going to play out in the long term? Will this phase seem boring and perhaps not what they want? I think I will be more impressed if they are still there in ten years and still quite content with their change in lifestyle.

    Of course, none of this takes away from their tremendous savings effort to get there. We have to applaud them for that.

  5. FoxTesla says 07 March 2018 at 14:04

    Does the book (or the blog; I didn’t find a search option to look myself) discuss health insurance? A quick perusal shows pictures of their children being born in a hospital, so insurance has come into play…I’m curious what their approach is, especially since this falls on the cost side of the ledger. Keep employment to have an employer-provided plan? Is there an affordable state marketplace? Have $XX cash on hand to pay after negotiating a lower payment?

    • J.D. says 07 March 2018 at 14:48

      Both Liz and Nate have health insurance through their current employers. (That info was in a recent blog post. I think the August 2017 spending update?)

  6. WantNotToWantNot says 07 March 2018 at 14:10

    I’m always gobsmacked by how much hostility, envy, resentment, and second-guessing, there can be in the FI community. Geez. Money, by its very nature, invites comparison and therefore brings up a lot of negative emotions. These FI/FIRE blogs and people’s stories are individual and personal—I say good on all of them for putting themselves out there to show how they did it, in hopes it might be helpful to others, whether they include their numbers or not. Their choice; and I can choose whether to read them or not.

    As far as Frugalwoods goes, I’ve always been impressed positively by Liz’s recognition of privilege. The couple is white, from stable families, middle-class, and with college educations, and living in the U.S. If you think that’s not privilege, you haven’t done much traveling, reading, or thinking. Rather than seeing her recognition of privilege as a hyper-sensitivity or apology for wealth or high incomes (yes, six figures = a high salary, although not for a city like Boston), I consider this sensitivity a form of compassion and lovingkindness. Liz has written a lot about gratitude. That is an element sometimes missing from the more self-congratulatory FI blogs.

    But hey, everyone has his/her own story to tell in unique ways. I prefer to remain nonjudgmental in order to keep an open mind to all approaches and philosophies.

    I can learn something from every person I encounter, and from every story I read.

    • J.D. says 07 March 2018 at 14:50

      Yes, absolutely. And I hope this review didn’t come off as judgmental. For me, I was puzzled as to how Liz and Nate were able to accomplish what they did through sheer frugality. The numbers just didn’t make sense. As I say in the article, it’s as if she gave us a recipe but left out the key ingredient.

      Also yes, Liz is perhaps the leading voice in acknowledging the role privilege plays in the ability to achieve financial success and she is to be applauded for that.

    • Steve says 07 March 2018 at 17:10

      I didn’t notice any hostility or envy in these responses. Rather it seemed to me that mostly people had more questions about their lifestyle and exactly how they were paying the bills.

      Some people go out into the country and really get off the grid. Sometimes they find themselves in really teeth-grinding poverty. I think most of us are just trying to figure out exactly where the Frugalwoods fall economically. I think they are just a bit further up the ladder than one might think by reading their blog. No one is resentful.

    • S.G. says 07 March 2018 at 18:54

      There’s a difference between counting your blessings and being embarrassed by them. There are definitely people who do well and feel like they somehow cheated. Guessing at their politics from reading them I get it. But I’m with JD that their story is their story and holding back a significant part of it almost makes it more conspicuous. Omitting their income doesn’t change their story, so what is the purpose? They don’t want people to read it and feel bad? That seems…weird? Pointless? Psychological? I’m not entirely sure.

  7. Lady Dividend says 07 March 2018 at 14:17

    Wahoo! I have this book on hold at the library and I’ve enjoyed all the press about the Frugalwoods lately. What they have done is certainly respectable and I enjoy Liz’s sunny outlook on things.

  8. rosarugosa says 07 March 2018 at 15:38

    Health insurance: “We are extraordinarily fortunate that Mr. FW’s generous and progressive company pays not only for his healthcare but for mine too! Babywoods will be covered in full as well. Can’t tell you how grateful we are for this!”

    http://www.frugalwoods.com/2015/09/02/august-2015-expenditures/

    • FoxTesla says 08 March 2018 at 07:14

      Excellent, I had tried looking under the “health” tag and “kids” tag, but hadn’t dug through the spending tags. Thanks.

  9. dh says 07 March 2018 at 18:55

    “That’s great, but it comes in the midst of a seven-page apology for ‘privilege.'”

    Which, to my mind, renders the book unfit for reading.

  10. Frogdancer says 07 March 2018 at 22:22

    Hello!
    As an English teacher, I was absolutely gobsmacked to read an honest book review from someone in the FI community. It seems like you all know each other, so anyone who publishes a book gets fawned all over by their mates when it’s released. That’s ok; it’s human nature to want to support your friends, so I was expecting more of the ‘same old, same old’ when I came home from work, poured a shiraz and sat on the couch with my dogs and my laptop and started reading.
    I was skimming through and then was pulled up short when you said, “Meet the Frugalwoods isn’t perfect. To my mind, it’s too much of a memoir and not enough of a money manual.”
    “Wow,” I said, and then settled in for a far more attentive read.
    Honestly, I’m impressed that you gave a balanced and clear review of the book. You gave both the positive and negative as you see it, which exactly what a professionally written book review should do.
    Hats off to you, sir!

    • Mike in NH says 08 March 2018 at 04:15

      I don’t comment often, but I came to specifically make this same point. For what it’s worth, I think the FI community has cost themselves some credibility to me lately in that regard. Everyone is very smart/mindful so if I can’t chalk it up to herd mentality. Like you mentioned it’s understandable to want to support your friends but seeing everyone churn out the equivalent of a puff-piece advertisement to help sell books is disingenuous. Buy this because my friend wrote it and it’s great makes you no better than go buy Nike because Lebron said so. It leaves the reader feeling manipulated or used by the community for their own gain, similar to how when someone reviews a site or app they have an affiliation with I really have to consider what is in it for them and what impact that has. Thanks for keeping it real, JD.

    • J.D. says 08 March 2018 at 07:16

      In the olden days, book reviews were easy. I was some random guy sitting in his living room writing about books written by people who seemed like celebrities to me. If I’d have met the authors, I would have been in awe.

      Back then, if I didn’t like a book, I generally just didn’t review it. What was the point? It served no purpose for me, for the author, or for my audience. I made exceptions for huge bestsellers like Rich Dad, Poor Dad that everybody was going to read anyhow. But if I didn’t like a smaller, “no name” book, I just ignored it.

      Now, things are different.

      Over the past twelve years, I’ve come to know many people in the personal finance community. Folks who used to seem unapproachable are now my colleagues — sometimes even my friends. Most of the books I read about money are written by somebody I know. This makes reviewing them a delicate balancing act. I want to write about the book to help my friend, but my primary aim is always “readers first”. (“Readers first” is my business motto.)

      I cannot lie and say I loved a book if I did not love it. It’s just not in me. But telling a friend you don’t like their book is like telling your spouse that you think they’re overweight. It’s a hurtful thing, even if you intend for it to be helpful rather than harmful. I’ve read some bad books from colleagues, but have never told them. (One of my closest colleagues has written several books. The last few have been pretty bad. Instead of reviewing them, my solution has been to talk about interesting concepts they contain. That seems useful to readers while not hurting my colleague’s feelings.)

      Most books are like Meet the Frugalwoods. There’s good in them, but they have flaws. In this case, I think it’s important to point out both the strengths and the weaknesses. (In the case of Liz’s book, this was easy because the major flaw was a glaring one. To me, anyhow.) With a decade of distance between me and my own book, it’s clear to me that it falls into this category too. I’m proud of what I produced in Your Money: The Missing Manual, but I can see that it lacked an overall coherent structure. I think my “Money Boss manual” is much higher quality. I would love to merge the two together, to take the material from YM:MM and hang it on the frame of my Money Boss ebook. I believe that would make an excellent book.

      One thing I won’t do is provide a blurb for a book I don’t like. So, if you see my gushing about a book in the endorsements on its cover — Kristin Wong’s upcoming “Get Money”, the new version of “Your Money or Your Life”, etc. — then you can be certain I’ve read it and liked it.

  11. KLE says 08 March 2018 at 08:03

    Clearly Liz loves “joyful frugality” and she loves writing about it. In a consumer obsessed culture, her enthusiastic and concrete examples of finding what you want but not always via usual price, are welcome and useful. I have saved hundreds of dollars from her recommendations (ie internet mattress for <$300).

    Every blogger has to decide how much they want to reveal about their own lives, and since Liz doesn't want to tell the world her income numbers, she doesn't. I respect that she has a boundary and keeps it. While I agree the book could be stronger (I'm about a third of the way through my pre-ordered copy) with a more frank discussion about income, I doubt she started Frugalwoods to be everything to the FI community, and I think she rocks her niche. I enjoy the transparency in her spending numbers and her reflections on spending on what you value. I don't need to know how much they make.

    What I think both JD and Liz do well is advocate in authentic ways for living the life you want regardless of what other people think. I have enjoyed the self deprecating style and honest journey to finding the-life-you-want elements of the book.

  12. Jaime says 14 March 2018 at 04:11

    I don’t think there’s anything wrong if life has given you certain advantages. That is not anything that anyone can control. It’s part of the lottery of birth.

    Also when your grandparents and parents worked really hard for several generations, just so Liz and her husband could have a nice middle-class lifestyle growing up and go to college, what is wrong with that?

    That’s why most parents work so hard, so the next generation can do better. Pretty sure that generations and generations ago, their families were struggling. That’s how most family lineages start off.

    Until someone in the family line says, “Enough of this. One day I want to live and enjoy my life, and help my family enjoy theirs, and set up future generations to be debt-free, and have freedom.”

    Then they start working hard, learning, and taking actions to make better lifestyle choices.

    In the money blogging niche, there is a lot of defending and explaining your money choices to readers. That’s the one thing that kinda annoys me about the PF niche.

    That is why I refuse to blog about money. In this niche there is a lot of judgement from other PF bloggers, readers, etc. It would drive me nuts.

  13. Dicey says 16 March 2018 at 04:33

    I appreciate the honest review, JD, and the interesting comments. What I don’t understand is why no one gets the distinction that their “yeast” was not always so, well, “yeasty”.

    Apparently the FWs are making big bucks now, but they didn’t start out that way. People seem to be watching them cross the finish line at the end of their marathon, but failing to appreciate the work it took them to get there. Who cares if they make big bucks now? There are literally thousands who make more and have nothing to show for it.

    One could take the critic’s logic and apply it to JD. Just because he got a big payday when he sold GRS doesn’t mean that his story suddenly lacks value.

    C’mon, people! Both stories are interesting because they are not the norm. I am happy for their success.

    • Louise says 18 March 2018 at 12:24

      I love reading the Frugalwoods blog, but I have become a little disillusioned…

      I reserved a copy of the book at the library and started reading through the Amazon reviews. Someone pointed out a link to Act blue’s IRS filings and Nate (whose actual first name apparently is James) made $225,000 in 2014, the year that they decided to be more frugal.

      I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with them making a great income (including Liz’s income from when she worked full time for a w-2, I bet their income was around $300k). But I feel a little cheated when she talks about her anxiety over things like being able to stay home with her child and how she could make up for her lost income.

      That’s so disingenuous. Anyone making the kind of money their husband does can stay at home with their child with absolutely no difficulty. Even on half of that income!

      I also have no problem whatsoever with them sourcing out used items. It’s awesome for the planet. But now what I object to is her description of things like getting her stroller-

      “As we pulled into the thrift store parking lot, I spied my dream stroller sitting out front. Resplendent with 20 inch wheels, there it sat. I leapt out of the car and rushed over to claim it.”

      I am all for sourcing out used things, but when you make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, maybe one shouldn’t be so anxious to get the used item that someone else making a lot less money than you might need.

      In summary, I think it’s awesome that they make great money and it’s awesome that they are frugal and help others to be frugal. But the tone of the blog makes it sound like their frugality was the key to their success, when really it was only a small part of the equation. She does talk about privilege, it’s true, but not enough in the right way. From her blog, I would have guessed they made around $150k or so. Not approaching likely $300k

      • Kstar says 25 May 2018 at 18:35

        This response is perfect. Thank you.

  14. Jen says 17 March 2018 at 17:24

    I have read the Frugalwoods blog periodically, but I have read it less since the move to the farm. I’m glad they are living their dream, and living frugally for many reasons. But their situation is so unique – renting out real estate that appreciated super fast, working remotely for what seems like a fairly high income, etc. Also, buying a 66 acre farm isn’t super-frugal, but it is in line with the life they want and I’m glad for them. But now their expenses include things like tractors, which isn’t super-relatable to me. I’m happy they are happy with their life, but I haven’t been able to connect with it.

  15. Chris says 07 May 2018 at 10:55

    Refusing to mention an income of $250k+ isn’t like “a bread recipe that negates yeast,” it’s more like a bread recipe that fails to acknowledge the need for an oven, making people believe they’re toaster will do the trick in the same amount of time.

  16. Sara says 18 September 2018 at 06:36

    Living in the Ct/ Mass area of the country, I see many young, educated couples making $300,000 or more a year and struggling to pay their bills. Keep in mind the state and federal tax burden, property tax bills of over $1000 or more per month on their McMansions, big mortgages, vacations to keep up with the Jones’s, food services because both work outside the home, eating out, expensive haircuts, manicures, furniture, etc. basically keeping up with their social peers. And these folk could learn an important lesson from reading the Frugalwoods blog and book. These young people are on the never ending treadmill of paycheck to paycheck, never deferring instant gratification for long time stability. Kudos to the Frugalwoods for recognizing this and reining the excess in!

    • Kstar says 03 October 2018 at 12:50

      I like your comment and agree. I, too, have observed this with a few people. I could also learn a thing or two (husband and I order take out way too much).

      But I would also like to point out the flip-side: I live in MA (have been here for 35 years) and MOST people that I know are doing a lot of the things that the Frugalwoods blog about (DIY, cutting their own hair, buying used goods, cooking at home, etc.) and it would NEVER have occurred to them to blog about it because it is just a way of life.

      The Frugalwoods have a lot of wisdom, but Liz sometimes treats their behaviors like epiphanies that have led to some kind of enlightened metamorphosis that the “rest” of the middle-class should try too, without realizing that their pre-frugal behavior was (sort of) abnormal.

      To exemplify, I gave up cosmetics 6 years ago after we bought our house, and it wasn’t transformational; I just needed to re-prioritize, so I did it. I have friends and coworkers who have done way more than paint their own cabinets (building a garage from the ground up, laying their own hardwood floors, building a kitchen nook, refinishing furniture, I could list more). My mother-in-law sewed her own curtains 30 years ago and they’re still in her home. My family (which was solidly upper-middle class and I grew up in a nice neighborhood) did our own cleaning and yard-work; in fact, most people did (even the engineers, physical therapists, and entrepreneurs). My father-in-law has always done his own car maintenance. Even my mother (who is not at all frugal) shops yard sales. No one is bragging about it, blogging about it, or making a big deal about it; it is just the way most people I know are living and the conversations surrounding these behaviors are fairly commonplace (not–let me share this new tip I learned: You can unclog your own drain! How empowering!).

      I am not trying to say that the Thames experience is inauthentic; I recognize that for them it was transformational, they are more than welcome to share their journey, there is wisdom in it, people LOVE them, and certainly they’ve accomplished a GREAT deal that they should be proud of. I thought Liz came across really well in that clip above (not so much in the On Point Interview).

      But overall this book hit a weird note for me. To circle this back to J.D. Roth’s review, frugality isn’t the key to their success. It was one of many tactics. And their definition of “normal” is being warped by their high-earning colleagues and the progressive (even somewhat radical) FIRE community that they’re surrounded by. Without numbers to contextualize their success, it can be a bizarre read for someone like me, who is not already familiar with her brand, but was rather introduced to it (and this whole FIRE movement for that matter) from this book.

  17. Sara says 18 September 2018 at 06:39

    A followup to my comment, as my Dad always said: it is not how much you make that matters, it is what you keep!!!

  18. Jason Raivern says 04 November 2018 at 04:00

    I was an avid reader of the blog. I’m out, I feel like I was scammed. Would have been nice to know from the beginning that hubby made a quarter million annually by working at a non profit.

  19. Spencer says 21 April 2019 at 22:39

    Sorry Frugalwoods, to leave income out of the equation is too curious to overlook. You make it sound as though I could retire to a northeast “homestead” if I could only stop buying $40 cheeses and $7 lattes. You people make $300,000 a year! The irony is that this book is clearly being marketed to the masses when in fact the masses make like $55,000 a year and were never buying $40 cheeses in the first place.

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