This is a guest post from Neal Frankle, a Certified Financial Planner and the blogger at The Wealth Pilgrim. Neal is a potential Staff Writer for Get Rich Slowly. His first post explored the benefits of starting a side business. For background on Neal's personal story, check out his recent article about how he went from homeless to homeowner.
Have you ever sat down at a restaurant, reviewed the menu, wanted to leave but stayed anyway? Did you stay because you didn't want anybody to think you were a cheap tight-wad?
Did you ever go shopping with a friend and bought clothes that were too expensive? Did you do this because you didn't want your friends to think less of you?
Did you buy the wrong car because you felt pressure to make an impression on the friend who went shopping with you?
Do you avoid going shopping or dining with other people specifically because you hate being in these situations?
If so you aren't alone. I struggle with these problems too.
Several years ago I went clothes shopping with some buddies and found myself in that situation exactly. I wanted to upgrade my wardrobe, and since these guys were pretty smart dressers, I asked them to take me out for a shopping man-date.
They are great guys so of course they were only too happy to help me out. They took me to all the stores that they shop at and we found some really neat items. I tried the suits on. I have to admit it…..I liked the way I looked in them. I tried on one particular Zegna suit that was especially snappy. I felt like a million bucks in it. But then when I saw the price tag, I just about had an aneurism.
I was scared and frustrated. I wanted to run for the nearest Ross Dress for Less I could find but when I saw my buddies giving me the thumbs up, I felt trapped. I worked up the best fake smile I could, unleashed my credit card, and took the suit home.
As it turns out, I'm glad I bought the suit and I still love it to this day. But the point is, I was definitely out of my comfort zone. And rather than say anything, I spent money I didn't want to spend because I didn't want my buddies to think less of me.
That suit cost me a lot of money and self-esteem. I felt weak because I didn't have the grit to tell my friends I didn't want to spend that much money. What could I have done differently?
- I could have been honest with my friends when I first asked for their help. I should have communicated what my comfort level was before we went shopping. When I think about the money these guys make and the professions they are in (both are actors) I should have realized that we define “expensive” differently. (Actually, these guys don't really have a definition of expensive). I should have thought about the kind of money they spend on clothes and I should have told them what my limits were.
- I should have been honest with myself. Part of the reason I wanted these guys to take me shopping was to show them what a big spender I was. I didn't realize this at the time, but thinking back, it's very clear to me what my real motives were. Had I spent a few moments to think about it, I would have understood this immediately and possibly done it differently.
Trying to impress somebody is a lie. It's inauthentic and it's dumb. Why should I try so hard to get other people to like a person that isn't really me? It makes no sense.
I believe that if I take these steps in the future, I won't find myself in this kind of awkward and dishonest situation again. But even if I blow it and wind up back in that clothing store (or equivalent thereof), the solution is still the same — honesty.
I think it's better to admit that I made a little mistake quickly than continue to lie and make a bigger one.
I'm a bit of a people pleaser by nature. The process I described above is sometimes difficult for me. I'm getting better at it even though I haven't mastered it yet.
Do you struggle with this issue? Do you spend money differently when you are around certain people? How have you dealt with this?
Photo by Danielle Blue.
I definitely do respond to peer pressure in regards to my spending. I order bigger meals than I really want, and I bought a nicer car than I really needed. My father was one of those uncomfortably cheap dads who picked up things off curbs and gave them to us kids as presents, and so whenever I start to feel that “don’t be cheap” vibe, it really pushes me to spend more, even though I’m not in line with my real financial goals and values.
I am pretty open about my finances and what I can and cannot afford so I don’t really feel any peer pressure at all. Honesty is really the key. The amount of money you have or make it not something to be proud or ashamed of- it just is what it is.
I understand how to avoid shopping situations like this, but meals at places with prices you don’t really feel are worth it are sometimes harder to avoid. Anyone have any tips beyond checking out the menu before agreeing to attend?
I used to fall into this trap all the time back in college. I think you’re right, the best approach is simply to try and avoid finding yourself in these situations.
Also of note: you said that “As it turns out, I’m glad I bought the suit and I still love it to this day.” I’ll bet that if you hadn’t bought the suit, you’d also be happy with your decision. One of those quirks of human nature–after making a tough decision, we set about trying to confirm that we did the right thing, no matter which route we took.
Maybe it’s the rebel in me, but I’ve come to a point where I feel a certain sense of liberation in not going along with the herd.
I make it a rule not to shop with friends! As far as eating out, my friends are a lot like me when it comes to money so we dine on the frugal side of town without much thought. A lot of the problems with spending come about when you’re over-bought on your social situation.
I have had this problem in the past. My new year’s resolution this year was “No in ’09”. I decided that I would speak up and say no when invited to do things that I couldn’t afford or to buy gifts within my means, etc.
One way that I’ve succeeded is that when I’m asked to do something like go out to dinner or to an event that I can’t really manage, I say no, but offer to do something else that is in my budget. (Ex. I can’t make it to the movies and dinner with you all, but I’d love to plan a picnic in the park for next weekend.)
I’ve actually had friends breath a sigh of relief when I admit that I can’t really afford it. It allows them to admit it too. Now a lot of my social time has been replaced with very cost effective, quality time. Our dinners out are now just hours lingering over coffee or a trip to the farmer’s market and then home to make lunch together.
It totally depends on which friends I’m with. I have some friends who are frugal, either by nature or by necessity, and so when I’m with them I spend less. It’s so relaxed and easy, and we still have a good time, going for walks or bike rides or to the park or a less expensive restaurant or vacation. I had a chance to be friends with someone who spends large sums of money regularly, and I knew I just wouldn’t be able to keep up with her so I did not accept invitations to do expensive things with her. It’s much easier if you have friends with similar spending habits as you, or friends who have spending habits you would like to have yourself.
I’m ok being honest about what me and my husband can afford. We go to thrift stores and invite people over for dinner or coffee and cake. Most people are very happy with that.
My struggle is being honest and not being heard by two longtime acquaintances of my husbands’. I told them I’m out of work and struggling to pay for rent and food. The wife says ‘it’s not that much money to fly jetblue and visit us in Florida in the winter’. The husband is equally obtuse and a braggart. I wish they didn’t live in our building! LOL
I am going through this right now. I just moved closer to a lot of my friends so I am hanging out with them more, and as a result spending more money. Eating out more, spending more on groceries (for parties and potlucks, etc.) Before, I spent a lot of saturday nights home alone with my dog, which is ok once in a while but really gets lonely. But, my friends want to spend money (and spend time complaining about how little they have) How do you deal with that?
As far as the suit goes, I’m gonna say that one thing I learned from my friends is that sometimes its ok to buy good quality stuff. I used to shop at the standard suburb mall stores and buy stuff cause it was cheap and not because it necessarily fit well or looked good on me. I ended up with a lot more clothes that I didn’t wear. Now, I’m much more picky, I shop at better quality stores, and spend more money on single items of clothing so the quantity bought has gone down, but now I have stuff that lasts longer and that fits me right and looks good on me.
The fact remains that you do love the suit. Sometimes I look at my pathetic wardrobe and want to cry. I cannot bring myself to buy myself nice clothing. And it shows. I think that deep down you knew that you would have gone to Ross, and bought something that looks like you bought it at Ross, and you didn’t want to do that again.
This is a great post, and something that I struggle with from both sides of the equation. We have friends who have not been as financially successful as we have as well as friends who have seriously ridiculous amounts of money….and it can sometimes be a very tricky situation to manage. As you mention, “expensive” can mean very different things to different people. I hope, however, that I never default to the ‘easy out’ of only hanging with people who earn a similar amount of money as I see that happening more and more as people get older.
JCos (3)–My wife and I try to make it a policy to eat only in restaurants that offer coupons.
Not only does this save money on the bill, but it seems that most coupon offering establishments are in the low- to mid-price range to start, and are trying to reach out to their cost-conscious patrons and potential patrons.
We haven’t seen many coupon offers by high end restaurants.
We pay attention to the circulars that come in the mail, and if we find a restaurant that offers coupons we’ll check it out on the web, where they often have a current menu.
I’m with Mike Piper. Once upon a time, I used to do this constantly. It usually involved buying event tickets to charity events. Good causes, yes – but budget busters anyhow. Not that we HAD a budget. So I didn’t know that we couldn’t afford it …
So yeah, the biggest problem wasn’t the $100/here, $75/there – or the $12 martini before or after the event. Or even the $300 dress to wear.
But I did think “I just can’t say no to the Good Cause Cocktail Hour because so-and-so is the chair …”
No more! We still donate to charity, but now we usually just write the check that we can afford and stay at home with our Netflix movies and our sale-bought, coupon-applied treats. Not as glamorous, but the better choice.
I never understood what was wrong with being seen as cheap/frugal. To me, money is the means to an end. Money is not what I’m after, the experiences that the money can get is.
I enjoy food and drinking, so I spend a premium on eating good food, whether I go out to eat or I am cooking. My bill is always the highest when I go out with my friends, and when my pantry and full of spices so I can make almost anything. I don’t eat to live, I live to eat, so I’m willing to spend more here.
On the other hand, luxuries like a 50 inch plasma TV or the latest consoles and games don’t excite me as much. Would I want one if I had a million bucks? Sure, but that’s not gonna happen any time soon.
The key is to find your comfort zone. Figure out what you’re comfortable with and live the way you want. If you know what you want to splurge on and cut back on things you don’t care about, then you don’t have to try to be frugal, you just are.
On a side note, splurging like that is nice once in a while. You get to experience things you never would have otherwise, and Trent, you got a suit you really loved. I’ve gone clothes shopping with a friend and girls before to buy new clothes and they “expanded” my comfort zone. They opened my eyes to things I never would have looked/chosen/combined on my own. Yeah it cost me more, but I enjoyed the experience hanging out with friends, and the next time I went to Ross, I found new items I liked that I probably would have ignored before.
There comes a point when you have to go against the flow or it will swallow you up. If you don’t have the money, don’t create debt which you may or may not be able to repay depending one whether or not you job will go south in this economy. If it out of your paygrade stay away from it. Chances are someone else in your group is in the same position.
Go have a beer instead.
No doubt that the company we keep has a big impact on our financial lives, but all aspects as well.
I find myself spending money to go out to eat when I hang out with my friends. I hate going out to eat, but enjoy conversing with everyone. Last week, I started a new habit of cooking at home instead, with a budget of less than $50 a week.
I’ve had some conflict between some people on my decision, especially my girlfriend’s mom. She says that I need to take my girlfriend out to eat every week. I told her that I enjoy going out for entertainment, but not to eat. I have even planned most dinners to accommodate my girlfriend, so I’m not excluding her.
Ever since I started becoming more financially smart, my girlfriend’s mom seems to expect me to absorb more of the costs my girlfriend incurs. She comfortably throws out the idea of me paying for this or that…
It really peeves me because I am a young adult in a position without any support. I’m stuck paying my own school tuition and medical needs that my parents pushed off from my childhood. I can’t afford to support someone else too.
Sorry about the rant, but basically, I’m standing my ground now, and anyone who has a problem with it can complain all they want. I don’t care.
Thanks for a great post, as it reminds me of how much time I used to spend shopping with friends as a recreational activity! It makes me glad that in my town (Pahrump, Nevada) there are very few outlets for this except thrift stores and garage sales. When I lived in London and Paris, it was an entirely different ball of wax…no wonder I ended up broke!
Hi,
This was a good post (clear idea, well-written, etc.). However, I was not able to relate to this guest blogger as much as AJ and Jason. My friends and I are in the “poor grad student” phase of our lives, so convincing one of them to buy anything really expensive would be just plain mean. We just flat-out wouldn’t do this to each other.
I try to be conscious not only of other people’s wallets as well as their values/priorities. Personally, I’m much less willing to risk my cash on a band I’ve never heard of than a meal at a new/interesting restaurant — not interested in paying $12 plus drinks to see that show, but I’d be happy to meet you for a meal before or after. :]
When planning a dinner outing I try to send people a link to the restaurant menu ahead of time so guests can take a look and suggest an alternative if that’s not going to work for them due to price, diet, etc.
Sometimes I find myself spending a little more than I would on my own when I am with a group of friends. To solve this, I try to plan my days a little more than most people so I don’t always end up in a situation where I’m at an expensive restaurant then end up at a movie theater spending $12 to see a movie, after buying some new clothes at the mall of course.
Fortunately for me, most of my friends are pretty broke right now. That doesn’t mean they don’t spend freely even though they shouldn’t, but it’s easier to get them to go along with me when I think something is too expensive (like certain restaurants).
Stick to your guns, and if your friends treat you like an outcast because you actually care about your future purchasing power, start spending less time with them.
-DC
Most of my friends are bigger spenders than I, though ironically I can more easily afford such expenditure (in part because I don’t regularly indulge).
I find that the same negotiation skills that allow me to obtain better deals on my purchases can also be applied to avoiding excess when with friends. Remarking that a restaurant is “overpriced; let’s find somewhere more reasonable” often elicits relief from my friends.
That said, when I’m entertaining friends, I do tend to spend a bit more; once my needs are cared for – retirement plan in place, emergency fund… funded – what else is money for but to use for the enjoyment of life? The difference between “frugal” and “cheap” is the saving of money for saving’s sake.
I definitely spend more when I’m out with friends and discover their tastes are more expensive than mine. I try to counter this by talking and writing a lot about my efforts at frugality. I’ve become kind of the “frugal gal” in my crowd, the person people expect to spend less. That means people seek me out for free fun, and I get invited less to the expensive outings.
Mostly this is great for me, and my friends. Quite a few people talk to me about their own money troubles or transformations. On the other hand, giving up frivolous spending is like dropping any other bad habit: I’ve lost touch with some friends because I no longer do the activities that formed the basis of our time together.
Loved this post! It really gets to the psychology of money too. So often money is used an extension of ourselves and our ego, instead of merely a tool for meaningful living. I know that I am prone to spend more when I am feeling emotional or hormonal (ladies, am I right?).
Posts like these remind me that I am not always a rational being and it’s good to reflect on why we spend, and whether we are really getting what we want/need out of the experience.
Spending reveals character, doesn’t it? How you regard yourself, others, and your image…
#3 JCos – we go out to eat very rarely, maybe once a month, twice on occasion. We use Restaurant.com. We can get $25 gift certificates for $10, or like this week while they are running a special we can get $25 for $2. The restaurant choice is limited, but there are some good ones in our area. Other limitations – must spend minimum amount, such as $35 to use $25 GC, one GC per party, some will add in gratuity automatically, some limit the days the GC can be used.
Great article! Some of my friends make quite a bit more money than hubby & I, and for a while we tried to keep up with them. Big mistake (part of the reason we are working on paying off debt)! Now we have learned (mostly) how to say no thanks, not this time & our friends will compromise on some occasions (instead of eating out, let’s do some grilling, rent a movie, etc).
I’m improving on this front. In college my friends were into sporting events, eating out, big TVs and video games. Me, not so much, but went along often enough to keep me broke.
Since then, I’ve been consciously choosing my friends based on our ability to spend time together without spending money. A hard bike ride, followed by a good discussion about books, is a lot easier to maintain in the long term than a baseball game and beers. Like Sierra @23, some friends slip by the wayside when you realize your relationship was built on buying stuff instead of spending time.
PS – Trent at the Simple Dollar had a really good post on this a while back – http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/10/11/stop-trying-to-impress-other-people/
@ Shane:
Good for you! Don’t give in to your gf’s mom’s pressure.
I can’t stand those kind of manipulation games.
I’ve never felt pressured in any situation to spend money… I just don’t do it. Shopping for me isn’t spending money, it’s spending time (alone or with someone else) browsing stores and either thinking about life or talking about it.
Of course, it helps that most of our friends make about what we do. On the rare occasions that we join other people for dinner or going out somewhere, it’s something that’s comfortable for all of us because our incomes are close.
Then again, I’m sure we can make some people feel weird… We spend a lot on our cars, and it’s rare when something new isn’t in the works. Then again, our house is pretty dang empty… It’s just a priority that people can see, so we get some interesting reactions. (Mostly negative from people who don’t understand it’s only a priority, and bemusement from our friends because we spend so much on the cars.)
My friend group has actually gotten more frugal. A number of my friends rush to tell me about the good deals they’ve gotten because I am the group appointed Coupon Queen. I think it’s much easier when you surround yourself with people who will help keep you in check. If you want to be rich, do what rich people do: Save your money. That’s the kind of friends I want to have.
A lot of times it’s natural to spend more money when with friends. The combine group can convince another that it’s acceptable and you can find yourself spending more than you would like.
I totally agree that we need to be up front and not let peer pressure lead us to spend more money than we wanted.
But to me the most interesting part of this article is that you love the suit, wear it to this day, and feel great in it.
Isn’t it worth it to get stuff that is exactly what you want, that you will use and cherish and take care of, even if it costs more?
I think that spending more on a quality item is a wise and frugal move, and though you weren’t used to it, it ended up being a good expenditure.
I wrote about this from an environmental context on my blog last week. What if everything we bought was exactly what we wanted, beautifully made, and constructed to last? How could that benefit our finances, our quality of life, and the environment?
Less stuff, but markedly BETTER stuff.
One good thing about getting older, you figure some of this out. I know which friends I am comfy telling about my great buy at the consignment store and which ones not to. I also know which friend to avoid dinner out with because it means an expensive restuarant that is “the place to eat” but I am uncomfortable in. Funny during this economy I really see a lot. Some friends, we are sharing savings stories and a few others that would die first before making any cut backs. Even though they are hurting financially and it must be exhausting trying to keep up?
I don’t shop as a social activity, so that’s not a problem for me. I *do* play a game called “credit card roulette” with my co-workers, which some of you will probably find insane, but it’s never really been a problem for us. We all (a group of 4-6, usually) go out to lunch every day (I’m in the office three days a week), usually at a place where the bill will come to about $12/each, plus or minus a couple of bucks. Anytime we eat at a place that brings one check for the entire table (as opposed to everyone paying separately at the counter), we’ll play credit card roulette. A credit/debit card is collected from everyone in the party. One person shuffles the cards under the table, and hands the stack of cards off to someone else who deals, one card at a time, last card left in the stack pays for lunch.
In theory, if you do it regularly, the payments should all even out, it is a little bit painful when you go out with 8 people and end up losing for $100, though.
Most of the people I know aren’t bigger spenders than I am, though, so in general, I don’t have a problem with this.
Before going out with friends, I try to get an idea of what they have in mind before we go. I like to check out the restaurant online to get and idea of the price points before hand so that don’t I get sticker shock. Most friends are not very spend happy by nature (regardless of their financial situation) anyway.
There was this one time where another couple invited us to spend the weekend with them up in Napa. They chose a hotel that was about $350/night and we politely told them this was beyond what we wanted to spend. They were more than happy to accommodate us with choosing a less expensive place. If they are your friends, they will accommodate.
I have to thank my mother for not having to struggle with this issue at all. She always hammered it home to us that we had two choices, swim downstream with all the other fish and become weak and ineffective or swim upstream against the current and become much stronger! That and the usual, “if they jumped off a bridge would you do that too…” comments (LOL) drilled it in my head that a successful person was someone that had personal confidence and was true to themselves regardless of what the rest of the “stream” was doing.
Neal – I took a moment to read your “homeless to homeowner” article. Another nicely written article. I’m actually surprised that someone who had to face so much adversity early on that spending peer pressure was an issue for you. You seem like someone who must have great internal fortitude and discipline to accomplish what you did when you were so young. Thanks for your sharing and talking about how you overcame these issues!
I definitely do some things socially that I wouldn’t do on my own, the way some people drink only socially. I see movies out, eat at sit-down restaurants, and go to malls only socially.
On the other hand, many of my current favorite things to do are things I tried only because my friends wanted me to. So it works both ways. Ideally you can find friends who provide the sort of peer pressure that actually makes your life better.
I like your strategy of describing to your friends better what it is you’re looking for. And it can be difficult in that moment when you’re getting surprised by what they think you want to say, “Actually, I was looking for something more …”
When it’s your friend’s idea rather than yours, sometimes you can accompany them without spending much yourself (just get a soup or salad or coffee at the restaurant, don’t get any snacks at the movie theater, don’t actually buy anything at the mall even though you still try things on and joke about the poor fit).
One more hint: it may help to tell your friends (and remind yourself) what your priorities are. “Wow, this suit makes me feel like a million bucks! But, yikes, I don’t actually have a million bucks! I’m afraid buying this would set me back two months in my question to get out of debt.”
We had a problem once, meeting for dinner for a friend’s b-day. The restaurant chosen was waaaay out of our range but we didn’t realize it until we got there. The friend was a dear one we don’t see often, so we sucked it up; the restaurant was chosen by his clueless wife. It was painful and we were very careful about eating out with that crowd for a while.
These days most of our friends are cost-conscious and most fun is had at someone’s house. When we do go out, the worst offender is my husband; he has champagne tastes and can’t bear sticking to his beer budget. It doesn’t happen often though so we can deal, esp. since I am a cheap date and can counteract him pretty effectively. :D
My mother in law says that there is a difference between shopping and buying, and on this I agreee. We can go shopping as a group, but I usually won’t buy until I’m on my own. And there is always a return policy.
I almost feel more pressured to have great meals for people here at home! I love to make new things, my family doesn’t love everything. It is nice to have company over to share it with!
@Shane #17, hold your ground! And watch out – manipulators can take the low road like you would never imagine. Use condoms RELIGIOUSLY with a girl from a family like that. It appears you have ambition and they want to hitch themselves to your wagon.
To the commenter who has friends who insist on going out … when you’re young, it can seem like going out is the only way to have fun. But a lot of fun can be had doing things at home; for example, set up a home cooking project where you all can learn to prepare a dish for a dinner party (include some guy friends!), or find a craft you all enjoy and schedule a play date. You get to have the conversation without the $5 beers or $7 martinis.
Re: dining out: you can usually have an appetizer and soup, salad, or side dish for less than the cost of an entree, and it will be plenty of food. Don’t order alcohol, the markup is outrageous. And the desserts are usually all from one maker, you see the same ones all over. If a “nice” restaurant is suggested, go and enjoy the experience, just make sure your friends know this is a special treat for you and not something you can do all the time.
With friends, I don’t really feel pressure to spend more than I can afford. Though I do sometimes go places that I wouldn’t pick. Being a good friend means sometimes being flexible. I’m lucky that my friends are just as happy to find something to do that saves them some money.
But my sisters are another story. This year we’ve had several fights about money. They wanted me to give them a large sum of money for a joint present for my parent’s anniversary. I love my parents, but I just couldn’t afford it. Mine and my husband’s pay has been cut. And I was on expensive drugs at the time.
When I told one of my sisters this and asked if we could look at alternatives, I got hell. But I’ve put my foot down and decided that it is more important that I feel safe and secure financially.
Friends you can ditch if they become a pain, but being the family cheapskate is forever. I know I’ll be hearing about this for a LONG, LONG, LOOONG time. But, I can handle that.
Gee,
I’m with you – as I’m sure everyone else is. Your sister is off base. Just because she doesn’t see it doesn’t mean it isn’t true.
Good for you for sticking to your guns. Bravo!
I understand Gee- it is the family in our lives who I feel more pressure from than friends. Maybe because I’m at a point now of feeling comfortable with myself and my decisions and if I start to feel that friend peer pressure I try to reflect
a- the person is usually NOT peer pressuring on purpose- they just have different priorities
b- how I react to the situation is my choice, and if that means not hanging with that friend again then so be it.
However, with family it is much more difficult. A few weeks ago I was given a gift certificate for a spa. I knew I wouldn’t use it because the value was only $25 and looking online there was nothing at this place under $50. It was a gift I knew would just go unused because I wasn’t interested in paying the extra $25 for an unplanned and unnecessary experience. Turns out my SIL was going to this spa a couple weeks later and asked if I would babysit my niece for a few hours. I asked if she’d be willing to buy the gift certificate off me since she would be spending the $25 anyhow. She agreed, but didn’t neglect to tell me that I have become “so cheap”. To me it wasn’t just about cheapness as much as it felt like not wasting. When she made that comment I told her she could just have it because I just thought it was dumb to let the thing go to waste. Then she tried to convince me to just stop being so cheap and go myself!
The thing is, the more and more that we face these experiences and stick to our guns, the easier it is to not actually feel the pressure as much.
@JCOS My group of friends are all in the same boat and we have just moved to going to each other’s houses and doing stuff. In the winter it was Friday night poker with the host covering a dinner for all but it was usually cheap dish that fed a small army. For the summer, we have moved to Saturday afternoon horseshoes that leads into an evening around a firepit and food from the grill.
@Gee,
Good job for putting your foot down! Also, I think your parents would be happier knowing your family was financially secure versus receiving a present, especially since y’all took a pay cut. And if you have kids, they should always be your #1 priority!! Just imagine the poor little guys not having anything to eat if an emergency happens! :(
Great article. I have made this mistake back in my college days. Since then, I have decided to be honest with me and everyone around me regarding what I can afford and what I can’t,and make my preferences be known ahead of time.
If people accept me for what I can afford and go along, I accept such friendships. If not, I simply move on. I have a good circle of friends whose value systems vibe with me.
For those others, I still respect and move with them, but don’t go shopping with them.
I’ve been in this situation before, but with a slight twist. Although I may not dine out with friends if the budget doesn’t allow, I’ve found myself avoiding hanging out with a certain portion of friends and acquaintances. You see, they are in a better financial place than I and I really feel uncomfortable about not being able to participate in the conversations about travel, being a stay-at-home parent, other luxuries, etc. The aftermath of these encounters leaves me feeling resentful to myself for not being in a “different place” and also feeling resentful to my husband for not providing more so that we could be in a “different place.” Then I feel awful for even feeling that way. With today’s economy, I should be happy about our tiny apartment, two cars that work, steady income, and groceries in the ‘fridge, but I have to admit; it can be a struggle for me.
I find this to be a VERY relate-able post. There’s so many psychological components of society associated with money beyond it being simply viewed as a materalistic form of trade. Many times self-esteem, impressions, acceptance, social status etc. seem to be unjustafiably tied to the money we spend. Being a frugalist is DEFINETLY not easy; it doesn’t mean individuals must scrimp and save continuously and deny themselves all outings with friends, but I find once the frugal mindset begins, it is your PERCEPTION and ATTITUDE towards money that changes.
You tend to value your money so much more than you did before, that you often balk at the outrageous amounts other people will spend to buy the “latest and greatest” items. You probably also find yourself a little more hesitant to indulge in what others feel is “deserved.” However, sticking to your financial goals frequently involves having to plan things out a bit differently than friends do(as they undeniably tend to have such a powerful influence over most of us) such as heading to more affordable events and not always purchasing the EXACT same items or brands as they do.
Like Neal said, at the end of the day, the most important thing is to be true to yourself and to remain within your financial comfort zone while enjoying life. I believe THAT is the true path to financial freedom :)
It only hurts to tell people you can’t afford something the first few times. Once you get used to saying it, you’ll do it without even thinking about it.
If people are your friends, they’ll work with you, and may even be relieved that SOMEBODY has the guts to take a stand. If they ditch you because you can’t keep up with them financially, they’re weren’t friends.
Friendships shouldn’t cause you stress. If you have to spend a certain amount to impress them (and you don’t have it to spend) then you’re putting yourself in a stressful situation. Enough of life is complicated, friendships should be easy.
I can’t even imagine buying clothes I don’t really want, let alone a car. Are people really that weak-willed? When I bought my car, I already knew what I wanted and what I was willing to spend because I’d been researching it for months. I went by myself but there’s no way it would’ve made any difference if someone else was with me. I went to the lot to look at one specific car, and was either going to buy it or not.
I went bed shopping with a friend, probably the biggest purchase I’ve made with another person. We had a great time trying out all the beds, but it didn’t make any difference to my decision having another person there. The only time I’ve felt pressured to spend money was by a girlfriend, but that’s a different dynamic.
My fiance and I are house hunting, so having a big goal that others can relate to (“Sorry we can’t make it, we are saving for a down payment”) helps when explaining to friends why we can’t go out with them. If you still want to go out sometimes, one option is to find the best happy hour deal around and be strict about leaving when it is up! The hard part of that is actually leaving when you need to and not ordering the full price drinks later on.
Actually, now that we are saving for our house I’m regretting how I was on the other side when friends of mine were saving a few years ago – because I’ve always been in a comfortable finacial situation and have been able to save a good chunk without much effort, I’m sure I contributed to their pressure to spend instead of being supportive in their efforts to save. Lesson learned!!
I’ve been struggling with this exactly problem lately…although not with friends, really, but with coworkers.
I recently relocated for a job, and even though it’s to a similarly-priced city, I left my roommate and frugal friends behind. I expect the resulting increase in rent/utilities, but what I didn’t expect was that my food costs have more than DOUBLED since I moved.
I do cook at home quite often, and bring my lunch nearly every day. But when you’re new to a city AND new to a team at work, you can’t turn down every invitation for dinner or lunch out. The few times I’ve hesitated or suggested alternatives, I’ve been called “cheap”…and this is from people who earn a similar salary to mine, so they think if they can afford it I can, too. With friends, it’s easy for me to be honest and talk about my savings goals and spending plans…with coworkers, it’s much more difficult.
The difference in environment really rang true for me a few weeks ago, when I visited some friends in my hometown. I picked out a restaurant on-I thought!-the less expensive end for our reunion, but several of them told me it was out of their price range. I was annoyed at first, until I realized it was ME that had changed so much. Wow.
Thankfully, I have friends who are at the same level as I. All of us when we go out as a group, prefer eating out at decent restaurants (where a regular entree costs not more than 15-16$). And I have never been in a situation like that. With clothes, yes I am tempted to buy the brands and the works. Its okay to indulge once in a while too. But, again I shop during sales and if I have to be able to afford ‘Nordstorm’ or ‘Bebe’ clothes, I wait until I get a decent price. If not, I think GAP, Kohl’s do have stuff that can look gorgeous especially if you one knows how to accesorize!
I would not spend a fortune on clothes just because I am obligated to. Its important to be frank about your economic status. You are the one who pays the bills and not the friends.
On the other side, why did’nt you go return the clothes the next day when your friends weren’t there? Its other thing that you felt awesome in that:) but if it was going to add more debt that I would be cautious
I’ve been having this issue but related to bringing items to share to a casual dinner party. My friends mostly make more money than I do (like 2-3x more), but I don’t feel pressure to keep up in terms of material goods or eating in nice restaurants. But they like to have dinner parties, and I have a hard time sticking to a budget when I have to bring something to contribute. I feel like if I don’t bring wine or something special to eat, my friends will start to think I’m mooching off their hospitality. Really I’m just trying to keep to a budget when I don’t have time to cook a dish. How can I explain this without sounding defensive or apologetic about my disposable income?
I don’t recreationally shop. But I have a mother in law, sister in law, sister, and couple colleagues that do. So yes have had the experience of buying something I wouldn’t have normally but did after having someone go “you HAVE to get that! It looks PERFECT on you!!” or “you deserve it you work so hard!” or other nonsense, or times where I would leave a favorite store of their choosing and the person would seem hurt I didn’t buy something.
I’ve loosened up a bit and the people who know me know I’m not much of a “shopper”, and who knows maybe because of the economy people seem more sympathetic to my beliefs.
Oh yes, I do have a story with my mil where at a store, tried on a black jersey dress and it was extremely flattering but more than I would spend ($70?). She said it would be a shame if I didn’t get it and so I was swayed and did. And I’m glad I did; there have been many times I needed something nice to wear and the dress saved me.
I firmly believe that if your friends are truly FRIENDS, they won’t care what you spend. Fact is, I suddenly find myself in a much better position than most of my friends, my husband and I are still working while many, many friends are unemployed or have spouses who are unemployed. Recently my good friend told me proudly that she hadn’t used her corkscrew since my last visit (over a month before) and I asked her if she stopped drinking wine–she laughed and replied “No! I buy my wine in boxes now!” And then we proceeded to have a great evening with boxed wine and a frozen pizza. We continue to be creative about spending time without spending money. Break out the board games!!!
Cookie (55)–Sometimes it’s a relief to friends when we “come out of the closet” with our frugality. A lot of people are needing to watch the nickels and dimes these days, appearances notwithstanding.
This is a situation where it may pay to be a leader!
I feel the pressure when a salesperson has been working me for a while. I feel like I owe it to them at that point to give them the sale (and possibly the $$$ if they are commission-based) because they are at least somewhat deserving after spending valuable time with me as opposed to another potential customer who might have made a purchase. It’s harder for me to decide *against* buying something from their store when a live human being has been sincerely helping me; on the flip side, it’s much easier to walk away guilt-free when there is minimal personal involvement and I’ve been doing all the browsing solo.
LOL! I used to hang around with a woman who had a million-dollar appetite on a ten-cent pocketbook. She also had a credit card.
When we would go shopping, we’d head straight for the designer department at Saks. She would buy designer outfits–NOT on sale–like they were thrift-store specials. Being the malleable type, I would end up trying some of the stuff on and ultimately (because it DID look good on me) buying far more than I could afford.
Then when I got it home, I’d think “what on EARTH were you doing?” And I’d wrap the stuff up and take it right back to the store.
This would give me the social shopping experience at, unknown to my friend, no cost.
Often the stuff I’d returned after having bought it at full price would later show up on the sale rack. At the sale prices, I could afford it. I still have a couple of outfits acquired in that roundabout way…she has no idea I didn’t pony up the full price for them. ;-)
This is a huge problem/issue for me. THANKS for talking about it.
I do this more often than not with restaurants, especially with friends I haven’t seen in a while. I tend to pay for them. It’s not that bad because it doesn’t occur too often. Plus, it seems like good manners to me.
I’ve found that friends I have that make more seem to use me, at least seems that way to me. When dining out with them or meeting for a drink & snacks, they want to split the whole bill. Fine, if they were frugal like I have to be, but they make more money & splurge on fancy drinks & expensive food, then expect me to split it with them, when I clearly don’t order the more expensive things. Is think each should pay for their own choices, but they think this is being a cheapskate. I have no answer for it as yet, other than not going.
This comment has to do with all of the audition posts so far. Not one of the posts has interested me at all.
I think there is a huge temptation to spend more when you are out with friends because you don’t want to be seen as holding the rest of the group back when you are out socializing. People tend to hand out with others in their own income bracket, but I have several friends and family members who earn large sums of money (including a couple of actual millionaires). It just doesn’t make any sens for me to try to keep up with their spending. There is no way I could do it, and it wouldn’t make any sense. This hasn’t been an issue for us, largely because they have simple tastes and enjoy doing a lot of the same things I do, and those things don’t require either of us to spend a lot of money.
Unfortunately, I agree with Jordan (#62).
I also have this problem at work. My department does lots of activities together, ALL of which involve spending money. Whether it is going to a hotel for the weekend or going out to eat, they expect all department members to attend. But it’s really expensive! I make less than most of them and almost all have husbands who are in a financial position to give them them money if they have none. I’m not married and live at home to save money and this habit of theirs is driving me crazy. The one woman who even suggested that, since she was getting married in 3 weeks, couldn’t afford to go out with us, got so much flack for it that I’m not even sure now how to let them know that I don’t have the money. Further more, I’d prefer to use that money to go out with my actual friends.
The worst for me is when I went out to bars with my friends. I would have a drink or two. They’d be pounding back shot after shot after (expensive!!) shot. At the end of the night, hey! let’s split the bill evenly. Anywhere we went, bills were split evenly, with no regard to who ordered a tiny salad and who got the filet.
I have since stopped hanging out with that crowd. My good friends and I like to just sit around, watch bad kung fu movies, and drink beer. Good times, though we do splurge on the good beer.
Of course, all of my frugality goes out the window when one of my family members wistfully sighs that they’d love that new dress/expensive sushi dinner/random thing. I won’t do any of that for myself, but I am a sucker for them and they know it.
Friends make SUCH a big difference on how you spend and save money. Hanging out with wealthy friends definitely makes me spend more on food and random things. I have a friend who asked me to bring home a $6,000 IWC watch he bought overseas. I was smitten, and proceed to buy my own $6,500 watch the very next week! I sold it to a colleague, and then proceeded to buy 3 more rare watches for a total of $25,000! I did sell one for a $1,500 profit (Rolex Daytona Cosmograph stainless steel), another I kept and am wearing now, and the other I just returned for store credit.
If my friend wasn’t into watches, I would NEVER dream of spending more than $500 bucks on a watch! Rich friends blow holes in people’s budgets. Beware!
Rgds,
RB
RB30RB40
At my high school reunion, I told everyone I was “trying to find myself while in between jobs” and still mooching off the parents just for kicks. So, no, peer pressure doesn’t do much for me.
But I grew up dirt poor and was mocked for it on a regular basis, so I learned at a young age to not care about other people’s opinions.
I am in a peer pressure situation right now.
My girlfriend’s mother’s 60th birthday is coming up and the family wants everyone to go away on a weekend trip. I calculated that such a trip would cost me just shy of 100€ (that’s about 140$). That’s almost as much as I spend on food for a month (130€). Me, I have money saved up so technically I wouldn’t have problems paying that. It’s just that I don’t want to. To me, that’s just an unreasonable amount of money. I know I’ll have to bring it up but I’m hesitant because of the s**t storm I expect it to cause.
@Neal: didn’t you ask those friends along because you knew deep down that they would push you out of your comfort zone? That way, you could ‘blame’ them for persuading you to do something you really wanted to do, but needed a little push for.
With regards to the dinners-out with friends: we usually all pay for ourselves and go to inexpensive restaurants.
Last year, I quit my job to go back to University. My old colleagues had a dinner a few months after that and invited me along. I talked to the organizer about my finances and we agreed that I would pay for myself and that the rest would share the bill. I had fries and a coke. As the rest were drinking cocktails and specialty beers, this saved me around €30 ($45)!
This happens all the time when I get drinks with my differnt groups of friends. In one group someone always grabs the bull by the horn and just gets the first round for everyone, regardless of size of group. With another group of friends, it becomes an akward moment early where each person voices what we should do (People being honest that they dont want to buy for the group). And with another group, the moment we walk in the bar, everyone disperses and we meet up 10 minutes later, everyone with a drink in their own hand. Group dichotomies at their finest!
LOL! I have a friend who is uber-frugal. I spent an afternoon with her at the mall and we dug around the cooler at a couple stores in order to find a big diet beverage for 99-cents, then walked the rest of the time. Had I been alone or with anyone else, I would’ve happily sat and paid to eat :)
When I’m out with this same friend at a bar, we drink whatever is on special. Period. I don’t bother with most drink specials when by myself or with others.
So I think I need to spend more time with her because I come away having a blast but without spending much or any money at all. She’s a good type of friend to have.
I think that everyone to some extent responds to peer pressure. Especially when stuck in situations such as this where you go out shopping or dinner with a few friends.
It can be worse if you have kids and say you and your buddy go out to the ball game with the little ones. Your friend buys his kid a jersey at the stadium, and your kid likes it, and wants you to buy him one too, but you know you can get it much cheaper at the local sports store or online. Yet your kid is insistent and your friend sees this and says something like, “give the kid a break he’s a fan.” If you don’t buy it you’ll look like a cheapskate in front of you friend and to your kid as well.
Situations like these are really tough to deal with.
I really hate it when that happens. How have you dealt with those kinds of situations in the past?
@Tyler #33:
“One person shuffles the cards under the table, and hands the stack of cards off to someone else who deals, one card at a time, last card left in the stack pays for lunch.”
I’m sure your friends wouldn’t do this, but for any con man worth his salt it’s easy to mark their card and ensure it’s in the middle of the stack so they don’t end up paying. If they only do this once out of 6 times, it cuts their bill by 17% over time. If they “shuffle” every time, they never pay!
I’d recommend cutting out the payment game, and pay only for what you eat and drink.
I really liked this post. You can tell it comes from the heart, and it really resonates with a lot of people because they’ve experienced this problem in some form. Keep up the good work, and I hope you get the staff writing position!
Jo #53, I’m starting to have this problem with my family. We like to go out to eat and lately my dad or my brother will pick up the check since they make good money in a strong industry. Last time my sister’s bf picked it up – he’s not in the same field but is similarly secure and well compensated. Now there’s no way my husband and I could afford to reciprocate, and I don’t think my family would expect it of us, but now I feel like a bit of a mooch and like there’s nothing I can offer of anything like comparable value (ie I can’t cook, have no unique skills etc). Used to be I could always host, but now dad & sis both have new houses in the same area, and ours comes up way short. It’s a yucky feeling.
@ 10: Just want to defend ross(and stores like it). They have some great name brands for cheap prices. Obviously not an extensive section of mens’ suits, but ya can’t look down on a place that sells great women’s brands @ a portion of the price.
I used to work in a shoe store. I knew when customers were making a dumb purchase of uncomfy shoes that they’d regret later. (Well… at least, if I were them, I’d regret it. It turns out I have an unusually low tolerance for shoe-related discomfort.) I could see they were not all that comfortable. But, I was on commission, and it was their choice. I tried not to pressure, inasmuch as one can do that with a boss lurking over who pressures you to do the pressuring.
When women would come in (it was an all-women’s shoe store) with their friends, they made much better choices. They probably also purchased more often. But they didn’t buy uncomfortable shoes, ever. They also looked better in the shoes they did buy. Probably, if they were browsing with others in tow, they only asked to try on shoes they were truly interested in buying (whereas the shoe salesgirl’s worst nightmare is the woman who wants to play triesies on 6 different pairs, or more, with no intention to buy — no joke).
#62 + #64 — can you explain why not?
I make a *point* of being a cheapskate around my friends. Those people who mock me for it don’t stay in my social circle for very long, and the rest tend to come to me for financial advice.
If you can’t help but give in to peer pressure, make sure you’re associating with the right peers.
Solomon (80)–You’re raising a crucial issue. We need to be LEADERS in our social circles, especially when it comes to doing the right thing.
None of us need to be cowering in fear of what our friends might think of us if we dare to reveal that we can’t afford to keep up with what may be nothing more than a spending contest.
Going along to get along is a poor way to live life.
First, I work in a very nice wine store as my “get rich slowly” second job, and I find that being honest up front serves people well. When customers come in and start off with, “I’m looking for a bottle of wine for $15 or less” followed by a description, it really helps our staff find a bottle that is right for them. If your friends are truely friends, then starting off with how much you want to spend, will set the tone for an appropriate spending adventure. You can smartly dress on any budget especially if you have friends with a keen eye for putting things together.
Hi Neal, I liked this post, to clarify a small medical point though, the correct spelling is “aneurysm”, and having an aneurysm is not necessarily much of a problem unless it ruptures, you might have one now for all you know… But I knew what you meant.
I was in a similar situation specifically one time, all my friends are frugal like I am, but I was out with my husband’s friend who is a big shopper. She was purchasing this and that at the mall and I got tired of just walking with her and watching her buy things, so I started buying things too. Very unusual for me since I usually shop at the Salvation Army and so anything for over $15 gives me sticker shock, clothingwise. She seemed pleased and said “quinsy, I never knew you were so into shopping.” Well, I’m not… I got home and realized my mistake, and that I already had plenty of clothes, and that I could buy similar things just as easily at Salvation Army for $5. I snuck back to the mall the next day and returned everything.
I think if you realize you’ve made an error, be sure to hang on the receipts and you can always return items so you don’t lose face right in front of your friends (if like me you were silly enough not to just stick to being frugal all along). Also, if you end up at a restaurant that’s too expensive, you can split a meal with your spouse or say “oh, what a shame, I just ate or I’m not feeling well right now, so I’m just going to stick to a soup or salad.”
For those commenting just to say that “they’re not interested in any of these posts.” What are you doing on this blog then? This is the kind of thing we talk about. If you don’t like it, move on. Or at least provide constructive feedback about what you would like to see on the blog. Come on.
Quinsy,
Thanks……I used spell check but maybe I should upgrade to a better version! :)
I appreciate your point. I wrote this article about an isolated event that happened several years ago. Your story is similar to my own. This type of thing can happen to most any of us.
To your point. I find it fascinating when a few folks find little value in certain posts. I have enjoyed all the guest posts. Even though I may not relate to the specific example of each writer, I certainly have learned something from each one – and even more from the comments.
Having said that….it’s not a point I’ll argue. To each his/her own. But I agree with your sentiments….
I really think that’s the true “gold” at GRS.