This is a post from staff writer Robert Brokamp of The Motley Fool. Robert is a Certified Financial Planner and the adviser for The Motley Fool’s Rule Your Retirement service. He contributes one new article to Get Rich Slowly every two weeks.
You know what I like to do on a beautiful fall day? Sit on a couch and watch other people exercise! Furthermore, I cheer for a bunch of people I’ll never meet, representing a team based in a city they didn’t grow up in. Heck, I myself haven’t lived in that city for many years.
Yep, I’m talking about watching professional football — in my case, cheering for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, since I grew up in nearby Clearwater, Florida. However, at this point, I’ve spent most of my life living outside of the Tampa Bay area. But that doesn’t change the emotional connection I have to a team I watched as a kid, taking the bus from Clearwater Mall to Tampa Stadium to watch Lee Roy Selmon, Doug Williams, Jimmie Giles, and those ‘70s-inspired creamsicle uniforms.
But I don’t watch football as much as I used to. I certainly don’t get the NFL Sunday Ticket like I used to, which allowed me to watch every and any game I wanted (at a cost of $299.95). With a bunch of kids, I just don’t have the time. And, frankly, I feel more and more like it’s kind of ridiculous.
I had this thought again as I read about the recent bankruptcy filing of Warren Sapp, the former Tampa Bay defensive tackle and likely future hall of famer. Despite earning (in his estimation) $60 million while playing, and despite current monthly income of $115,881, Sapp has filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy due to owing $6.7 million, which includes unpaid child support and alimony. Listed among his assets in the bankruptcy filing: a 58-inch high-definition TV, a boxing glove signed by Muhammad Ali, $560 worth of new Xbox games, and 240 pairs of Nike Air shoes. He once owned an 18,000-square-foot mansion, but not anymore. He also doesn’t own the Super Bowl ring he earned with the Bucs, or his University of Miami championship ring. He says he lost them.
For some reason, most people enjoy reading about the financial downfalls of the once-rich and famous. But this one has garnered extra attention in the Tampa Bay area, not only because of Sapp’s legacy as a player, but also his legacy as a jerk. He was notoriously rude to fans. As an example, here’s what happened to high school coach of the week Mike DePue, who had been invited by the Bucs to watch one of their practices (as reported by the Tampa Tribune in 2003):
According to DePue, he and two of his assistants, Rob Burns and Vaughn Volpi, were at One Buc Place viewing practice from the sideline when Sapp walked to an area near them and “threw a tantrum,” apparently for DePue making eye contact with Sapp.
“I was just looking around in practice and he [Sapp] said to me in a confrontational tone, ‘Do you see what you’re looking for?”’ DePue said. And as Sapp walked back toward practice, DePue said Sapp used foul language and said he would “give me more [verbal] grief if I looked at him again.”
Bankruptcy couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy.
Are pro sports worth the cost?
How can a guy like Warren Sapp get paid so much? Because professional football makes so much. According to Forbes, the average NFL team made $261 million during the 2010 season, which is a total of $8.4 billion for the 32 teams. Of course, that money doesn’t just grow on turf; we sports fans are footballing the bill, through the jerseys we buy, the games we attend (and $5 hot dogs we eat), the cable fees we pay, and the hours upon hours of beer and car commercials we endure. Yet here are five reasons why devoting so much time and money to professional sports may not be worth the investment.
1. We should be exercising instead of sitting on our butts and watching other people sweat.
Many writers would now trot out all the statistics about how we’re getting larger and lazier, except that trotting would exhaust them. Plus, you already know about the couch-potato crisis. As for me, I’ve managed to get more in shape, and the health and psychological benefits are far more rewarding than spending three hours in front of a TV to watch just 11 minutes of actual playing (which, according to the Wall Street Journal, is the amount of time that isn’t spent on commercials and players standing in a huddle).
2. Many professional athletes are horrible with money.
Warren Sapp isn’t the only athlete who blew through millions. According to Sports Illustrated, 78% of NFL players and 60% of NBA players are bankrupt within two years of leaving the game. I can’t help but feel that spending money on professional sports is a misallocation of capital.
3. Sports can bring out the worst in people.
Sports participants and spectators can get pretty ugly. In February, 79 people died during a soccer riot in Egypt. It generally doesn’t get that bad here in the U.S., but fans can still get pretty ugly. A few years ago, the Bucs were in town to play the Washington Redskins (I now live in the D.C. area), and I took my then-12-year-old daughter to the game. She was all excited, painting her face and everything. But as the game progressed, and the fans drank more, they became more and more obnoxious to those of us who were rooting for the other team. One guy yelled to my daughter, “Hey, little girl — come over here and I’ll paint your face.†That was $200 well spent.
4. It’s silly to care so much.
Back in the day, a poor performance by the Bucs could ruin my Sunday evening (and if you know the history of the Bucs, you know that was a lot of Sundays). Then, a few years back, they blew a huge lead and lost in overtime. I couldn’t sleep. My wife turned to me at 3 a.m. and said, “You need to emotionally disassociate yourself from football.†It was the wisdom I needed to hear.
5. Is one season really that different from last season?
I’m not much of a basketball fan, and when the folks in my office gather around a TV during March Madness, I’ll walk up and say, “Look, a guy threw a ball through a hoop! Oh, look — it happened again! Wow, there it is again!†But football isn’t really that different. The truly unique plays could be summarized in a five-minute highlight video at the end of the season.
Football, I wish I knew how to quit you
Despite all the reasons why it doesn’t quite make sense to expend resources on professional sports, I can’t help but spend an hour or two each week watching football. Even in the offseason, I’ll occasionally flip to the NFL Network. I watched football growing up, and I played it growing up (as evidenced the by the accompanying black-and-white picture — back when I played football, colors had not yet been invented). I guess it’s an addiction, or something. Right now at my desk, I have an autographed picture of Lee Roy Selmon and several old football cards. (Who remembers that Vinny Testaverde began his career in Tampa?) But slowly, I’m recovering from my addiction, and not devoting so much time and money to it. Warren Sapp will have to find someone else to pay for his shoes.
Cheesy self-interested (sorta) addendum: Want to support the young, creative innovators of tomorrow? Today’s your lucky day! My son’s fifth-grade Odyssey of the Mind team has made it to the World Finals, where they’ll compete against kids from more than 25 countries. The team is in the process of raising $9,000 for the trip. If you’d like to contribute, send a check, made out to Stratford Landing PTA (with OM noted on the check), to Stratford Landing PTA, attn: Terri Bell (OM), 8484 Riverside Road, Alexandria, VA 22308. All donations are tax-deductible! And if you know of great places to visit as we drive from Virginia to Iowa, please let me know!
Sports don’t just bring out the worst in us; they also bring out the best in us — teaching us about teamwork, responsibility, and hard work. It’s motivating to watch sports and exhilarating. And it’s entertaining to watch the feats of the human body– sure, I could exercise myself, but I’ll never be able to dunk a ball or run at record pace down a field because my job isn’t to keep my body in peak performance condition. It’s neat to see people whose jobs that is. Sports have been around since before humans recorded history, they’re important for us as a species for whatever reason, so maybe try not to think of them only in terms of today’s society.
There’s an important distinction to make between actually participating in sporting activity and watching the bloated hype spectacle of the main pro leagues. Professional sport is a massive waste of intellect and resources, and it becomes an unhealthy obsession for many fans.
Yes, amateur sports and athletics are part of our history, as there is an actual application for being able to run, jump and throw things accurately. This has mutated into a celebration of ignorance and waste on an unprecedented scale. Today, the athlete’s real job is to get people’s attention long enough to sell them junk food, drugs to counter the effects of eating junk food, and massive vehicles to haul around the ever-increasing girth of the modern sports fan.
I don’t like sports and don’t watch. But that’s common for women… So long as state support doesn’t outweigh support for the arts and non-professional local sports opportunities, I don’t care. People should enjoy what is fun for them, no matter what I think. There are lots of outlets and entertainments I don’t understand.
I hate it when people break out unhealthy behaviour. Like drinking, some people have healthy relationships with sports and some do not. Those who can’t, shouldn’t watch sports. Just like those who can’t have a healthy relationship with alcohol shouldn’t drink.
I don’t see how sport is any more wasteful than most other areas of modern entertainment. I went to a movie theatre showing of an opera performance at the Met, and it was funded through the same advertisers one might expect. Big car companies etc… Mainstream opera wastes resources. It pays its performers better than average. It relies on spectacle as well as talent. And I enjoyed the performance. I was very glad I got to see it.
Almost all our mainstream entertainments are funded through commercials. It’s an issue. Our culture is problematic and certainly there needs to be a better discussion around these issues. But I don’t think enjoyment of music, sports or movies etc. should be wholesale condemned because it is funded by junk food or car advertising.
Seems like throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
I don’t watch sports or opera. But I have NO doubt in my mind and heart that opera is at least a hundred times more worthwhile investment of time and money. The exceptional skill and talent (and gift) required for opera, the rich historical and cultural heritage of opera, the creativity in composition, music, narrative and singing …how this can even be compared with a commercially bolstered team sport spectacle as being on a similar level of comparision astounds me.
Just to clarify I am referring primarily to spectator competitive team sport – not at all about engaging in excersise. But there are far better ways to keep fit rather than team sport. And there are far far superior ways to experience community bonding, common goal achievement and working together for beneficial and productive outcomes en masse than team sport of all things!
Because sport for many who are not into it is an unchartered territory, it is given far too much lassitude by them re concerns about its place and value in culture and society. It is in fact an unproductive waste appealing to those of a ‘herd mentality’ bent and largely used as a vessel to influence commercial and political interests to a crowd who are in generally more open to a simple and blind loyalty, the type of people who never really managed to leave that somewhat immature phase of play engagement.
It is not geared for those who optimise their use of time and energy in life engaging in more productive and beneficial pursuits, people who have left behind the ‘sport / game / play mentality’ a long time back to engage in more mature, adult and stimulating and complex (and beneficial and productive) pursuits.
There are interesting parallels between the sport paradigm and militarism and the war paradigm and the winners vs losers mind set… it is a lesser evolved approach and hearkens back to a more primitive era of human development (the concept of ‘loyalty’ – almost religious like – towards a team hearkens back to this primitive instinct as well)…
masculine instinct “machismo” (traditional ideas of masculinity) – testosterone – aggression – combat – winning the ‘spoils of war’ violence and sexuality have deeply interlinked histories in the evolution of our species… but we have evolved to higher levels than to be completely in the sway of our hormones thus in effect it has been argued that spectator sport really serves as a ‘dumbing down’ of our species to a more primitive level
A more universal concern should be the tremendous amounts of money which is used to commercialise sport and not to forget a large portion of taxes we pay go towards funding many ‘national’ sports events. There is a common agenda between multi national politics and the employment of sport to arouse an illogical loyalty of the masses (and at a deep level that is specifically sinister and worrying).
The politically inconvenient truth is that sport really is an incredible waste of time energy and resources, and more than anything else this should be a primarily ethical concern for ANY responsible citizen of society.
So, your are okay with slave labor which is what college sports are period!
Haha, says the person who doesn’t care about the free education. That person will end up a slave in one way or another because of that attitude.
@TB – YES
@ Anne – You make some excellent points and here’s a hearty thumb-up! However– a lot of women love professional sports! Anecdotally, my wife loves to watch “soccer” (that’s the American name for football); her mom loves to watch basketball and American football; a woman friend of ours is a sports journalist, and if you look at the crowds in stadiums there’s always lots of women. Female fans of sports may not fit the common stereotypes of the sports fan, but they are out there in droves!
@ haters – watching “soccer” with my wife on weekends (or mid-week, or whenever) make for great family time in my house. and it costs very little!
Female fans are a minority of overall fans. But you’re right there are more than people assume.
I didn’t mean to imply that women who like pro-sports are either not real fans or unfeminine in any way. Just that my disinterest is pretty common amongst women. That’s important IMO to recognize when evaluating the worth a hobby or interest has. It is always easy to dismiss someone else’s interests. I would be really annoyed if a man agreed and dismissed a more feminine interest of mine as worthless because it was “silly†or cost money they were not willing to spend.
Oh no no, I never read that you meant that women who like sports are “unfeminine” or any of that– I was just saying there are lots of female fans of pro sports. Perhaps they are a minority, but they aren’t an insignificant one– just a fact. But I agree with your take on this issue though.
I read an article about this somewhere. How women’s dollars aren’t respected in the area of sports/entertainment revenue. Apparently NASCAR has a huge female fanbase that is largely ignored. Our money is as green. It may be that women spend more of their money on the home and less on their own interests. But then again, some may be seeing sport as a family activity too. (As you mentioned it is in your home.) It’s interesting how stereotypes can feed in on themselves.
Yeah, go and watch sports sitting like couch potatoes instead of going out with your kids and enjoy a real life. Keep making the same mistake I did and at the end you get many many hours lost in front of a tv without doing anything profitable (not talking about money) in your life where your kids will suffer same as you due to the same pattern going over and over again. There are all kind of drugs out there killing our society day by day and TV & Sports has become worst than cocaine and LSD.
Once you’re in Ames, Iowa, if the kids are pizza fans, head to Great Plains Sauce and Dough Co. downtown. They have terrific pizza and they serve honey with the crust. I’ve made the trip from Shenandoah Valley to IA, and I prefer going through Indianapolis because it’s a good halfway point and they have a nice downtown.
Congratulations to your son on attending OM! That’s really cool.
I second this suggestion! Great Plains is the best pizza in Ames. It’s at 129 Main Street – I highly recommend the thick wheat crust pizza, eaten with honey. Be sure to factor in a bit of time if you go – perfection takes a little time, but it’s worth it!
I will third the Great Plains Pizza suggestion! Yum! Also, for a sweet treat, stop at Cookies, etc. (at North Grand Mall) for one of the best cookies you will ever eat. It is a local store and the recipes come from the owner’s mother. Good luck to the team at OM and hope you enjoy Ames!
And on your way through Indianapolis, be sure to stop at Yats.
I’ll concur on Great Plains. As I’m from Ames, I’ll also recommend Hickory Park for excellent barbeque, as well as The Cafe, on the north side of town.
Congrats on making it to Ames – great opportunity for the kids! Good Luck!
Stratford Landing…I just moved from that area to Syracuse. Good luck in the World Finals!
I can factor in a lot of things why NFL or any sport have so many athletes, fans and more fans. Aside from being one of the best sources of entertainment in any country. Here in the Philippines, we like basketball, but soccer, rugby and dragon boat racing are catching on. I think I forgot to mention boxing.
Any sporting event, especially the ones with the climactic finish, game winners and come from behind victories stir up something inside the fans, advertisers, promoters and team GMs.
While there are definitely a lot of Cons with sports, not so ideal role models (especially with regards to handling finances), bad behavior (i.e., marriage/ handling relationships), over the top egos.
There are still a certain few who exemplify positive characteristics. I know a lot of people have a thing or two to say about my own opinions (and everybody is entitled to theirs). Tebow mania, Linsanity, Ali, Pacquiao. Rags to riches story, passion, underdog, positive belief and faith.
-Anthony
“In February, 79 people died during a soccer riot in Egypt.”
Well… that’s simplifying it a little bit. It generally doesn’t get that bad here because the US isn’t dealing with anything even remotely comparable to the political climate in Egypt.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with watching a couple hours of TV sports a week. It doesn’t strike me as even worth noting, really.
Thank you for saying this.
There are a dozen examples that could have been used to demonstrate Robert’s point; the Egypt one just doesn’t work. That riot was not about sports; it took place in a climate of severe political instability and a huge power struggle between the transitional military council and protestors.
The jury is [literally] still out on the role of security forces in perpetrating the violence — the trial is still ongoing.
Maybe Vancouver’s Stanley Cup Riots would be a better example? I’m still scratching my head over that one.
Still, saying pro sports are bad because they bring out the worst in people is kind of like saying don’t fly because people die in airplane crashes. Most of the time, there isn’t a problem.
He actually gave a number of reasons for having that opinion of pro sports, but you must have missed them all.
As a kid, my hate for the Yankees was unmatched. And the funny thing is I can actually enjoy seeing them win in my adulthood. I realized I loved baseball for the game, and not for some specific team. I still have my favorite teams, but if they lose it’s no sweat off my back.
I don’t see anything wrong with watching pro sports. But I think you hit the nail on the head with how we support the outrageous salaries. Every time I pay $15 to park at the Phillies, I just say, “Here’s your paycheck Roy.”
Many professional athletes are horrible with money.
OK, but that’s more of a reason for spending money on sports, not against. “They’re horrible with money,” sure, OK, but what does that mean? They’re not piling it up and burning it. They’re spending it. Creating jobs, generating income for companies to hire more workers. Producing work for the housekeeping staff at casinos in Las Vegas (sometimes a lot of work).
Wouldn’t it be far worse if they were good with money? How would it be better for society to have 1,000 super-rich athletes all hoarding their cash in hedge funds, rather than keeping the Ferrari dealership in business?
This is what I’d call finding the positive in a negative situation. It’s like the Hulk saving/keeping Dr. Banner alive.
and once they’re bankrupt, who gets to support their kids?
Money other than just consumer spending still enters/spurs the economy. Money invested becomes capital for businesses to build/invest/hire. Money saved at the bank gets multiplied many times in the forms of loans (when the bank loan system is working).
Consumer spending is just one part of the economy.
professional sports only cost you if you let them. It is a great way to get together with friends or ways to bond with your father/son, whatever it may be.
I can’t even tell you the number of girlfriends/girls I have had because we either were fans of rival teams or the same teams and had a great time cheering our teams on together or bickering with each other over our teams. It’s fun.
You don’t need to spend $100+ a ticket, $20+ to park and $50+ to eat/drink. You can do all the same on a couch and create some lasting memories.
I guess I don’t understand this article and based on the Super Bowl ratings, I’m probably not the only one.
Here in Philadelphia, you pretty much have to have cable TV to watch the Phillies. True, it’s not $200+ per game, but it is at least $60 a month.
Is that the only thing you watch on TV the whole month? And even if it is, that is about 2 dollars a game. To entertain you for 75-90 hours a month, if you so choose.
Sounds like the cheapest form of entertainment around if you ask me.
Truth be told, since we got the Roku and can stream video, the Phillies (and the sports recaps) are the only things we watch on cable. My kids are another story and do watch the cable, but I was just making the point that the cost of being an armchair fan isn’t as cheap as it used to be.
Father/son bonding…I actually believe that’s an underlying reason so many people, especially men, are so extremely emotionally attached to professional sports: the only times their own fathers were nice to them was when “duh Bearsss” or whoever were winning a football game. When they lost or there wasn’t a game on, it was back to the usual neglect and/or abuse.
Please quit amateur psychoanalysis and find a new career. This is asinine and offensive.
OM! I had so much fun in OM. Glad to hear that your son enjoys (and that his team is excelling) being in it!
100% agreed! That’s a great experience. Good luck to your son and his team!
So much to say on this topic: Back in the mid 90’s, I worked in the front office of an NFL team. I doubt back then it was anything like it is now, but even then I was exposed to the underside of the sport (greed, sexism, etc.) not just in the office, but at the games too. Although I still look back at those days fondly because it was a great learning experience (and who am I kidding- it was fun!) as I was fresh out of college and had never worked in a corporate environment. I think we were a bit ahead of the curve: We had a former player (HOF now) who assisted the current guys with money management – if any of them bothered to listen. That being said, I’ve never been a fan of pro football like I am baseball. And I love my home team. I just hate it when it gets ugly at the games when certain teams with traveling rude, fanatical fans (who seem to outnumber the home team fans when the home team isn’t in a pennant race) ruin it for me by being jerks. And, although I see huge problems in NCAA ball, esp. for the students, I still love it.
A lot of kids in the Philadelphia area are growing up with a “road tripping” fan experience. It’s been so difficult and expensive to get good seats to watch the Phils in the beautiful new ballpark, spending an overnight in Pittsburgh or DC is a fun and surprisingly inexpensive way to create lasting memories.
Don’t forget the game that’s played on ice in June.
Being emotionally attached to a sport is exponentially worse when one is in a fantasy league. My DH is completely useless to me for every football Sunday and Monday night. So to add to the author’s list of costs, I would add the time lost with one’s family.
and when the folks in my office gather around a TV during March Madness, I’ll walk up and say, “Look, a guy threw a ball through a hoop! Oh, look — it happened again! Wow, there it is again!â€
Oh man, don’t be THAT guy, Brokamp.
I also believe the SI statistic is slightly misleading, in that they lumped together bankruptcy and “feeling financial pressure” or something along those lines. That article also detailed how pro athletes are easy targets for financial scams.
Side Note: Is there such a thing as Strategic Bankruptcy that wealthy people might use to preserve their net worth?
you ever hear about the female tennis player who had 60 million in career earnings. She funneled a lot to her father, whom she trusted to invest reasonably and keep safe. The father gave her a reasonable allowance and the rest was not talked about.
Years later the whole 60 million was gone, parents had blown it all. Every single penny. It isn’t always the “dumb jocks” fault. It’s lonely at the top. Hard to trust anyone, even though it’s all you want to do.
Exactly. There are so many pro athletes who trusted their parents to make sound investments, usually because the athlete was too young to know to speak with a financial planner. Heck, if I’d been a pro athlete at 15, I probably would have trusted my parents to invest my earnings, too.
I read an article on pro athletes (it may have been the SI story referenced above) who invest in their friends’ businesses. They feel they “should” – good fortune came to the athlete, so they should literally spread the wealth and help out their friends.
Great article, though some die-hard football fans will take the hit hard (pun intended). Mostly because their minds are clouded by propoganda from sitting in front of the TV for hours on end, mindlessly flipping through the channels.
People use to play sports becasue they loved the sport. Now people play for the money. Takes away from the game… imagine if every player in the league was as passionate about the sport as say Ray Lewis or Peyton Manning. Would make for a different game.
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Originally from Iowa… if you will be in Des Moines go eat at Zombie Burger and check out the downtown farmers market. If you are there during the arts festival go to it, rated top 3 in the nation for several years in a row now, and for good reason.
They are getting paid huge sums of money to play a game. Why do entertainers and athletes make so much but the people that truly work and are productive in society get paid mere pennies in comparison? Something is backwards here.
No fan of professional sports here, I prefer playing over watching (still play and now coach volleyball).
they’re getting paid so much because most of americans either enjoy watching them play, or enjoy the elitist feel of attending games and sitting in the front rows or saying the went to such and such last night. if you can make people appreciate your job and work that much then by all means, take the money. don’t criticize sports for common societies decisions to support it. you play and coach volleyball- i understand the desire to play more than watch, as I have the same for basketball- but I also can’t perform at the same level as a professional and enjoy and appreciate watching them on occasion.
I don’t criticize the sport, I criticize common societies decision to support these entertainers and pro athletes.
It’s because they entertain millions.
I find it interesting that people harp on professional athletes for playing a game for huge sums of money. But you rarely see anything regarding TV personalitys getting paid much larger sums.
Dr. Phil $80 million
Letterman $40 million
Katie Couric $15 million
Judge Judy $30 million
All they do is talk??!!?
And the Kardashians too? Seriously, so bizarre and puzzling that they are making so much money too.
Just plain odd that our society places such a value on entertainers and sports people. The worst is when sports players are called “heroes”.
Save that for our troops, please.
I am not a sports fan, but I can see value in it for a community, children learning teamwork, etc. What puzzles me is the overinflation in value for their paychecks…same goes with movies stars, “celebrities” like Snooky and the Kardashians… I don’t get it, it just seems so out of proportion to what the real heros (firefighters, teachers, nurses, etc) make that it just strikes me as absurd. And the emotional investment of fans??? Because someone lost a game (and it is just a game)it it is going to ruin your day?
People who are the best in their respective career earn far more than the average worker(almost always, but not quite).
There are maybe 400 NBA players in the entire United States, for example. Thats a little better than 1 in a million odds. They deserve the money they make for being the best in the world.
After all, LeBron James might make $16M a year, but Jamie Dimon, CEO of JP Morgan Chase, makes $23.1M.
True, but part of that is what the market can bear. I don’t think all CEOs or pro athletes in the U.S. are “the best in the world”, but market conditions certainly mean they are better paid.
Incidentally, some of the best athletes in the world are women. How come they’re not commanding the same high salaries?
I dont want to come off as sexist, but the best female athelets in the world are still slower, shorter, and less atheletic than their male counterparts.
The WNBA, for example, has shorter rims and still has far fewer fast break dunks or put-back dunks than the NBA. Its a less athletic brand of basketball that doesnt appeal to the mostly male sports-watching demographics. And yes, some men would refuse to watch women’s sports simply because they are women. I recognize that fact, but those individuals are in the minority.
The thing about teamwork and sports: The teamwork is only internal to the team – outsiders are the enemy. This is only good to a point. Some people can be great teammates, but absolutely cruel to the opposing team and they will be encouraged, and praised.
It is possible to be competitive and positive, most Olympic athletes are, but professional sports seems to be far skewed the other way.
Our NFL team is currently throwing a temper tantrum about getting a new stadium, mostly at tax payer’s expense, because their 20 year old stadium is ‘old’ and not up with the NFL’s wish list. People are out of work. There are so many priorities above and beyond football and now our state legislature is in over time trying to find funding for this team. Not things for the good of the state. The news reported secret meetings…..It makes me frustrated and angry.
Skol Vikes!
Especially after yesterday’s topic here on GRS, for sure.
And made even more maddening by the rich owners that think we the tax payers need to pay for it.
The NFL should be like any other business and build their own stadium. The problem is that other cities will cough up money to steal away the team. Until there is a united stand against the NFL’s ridiculous stadium demands, this will continue to be an issue.
Not the NFL either, but the NBA as well(see Sacramento).
I am in Indianapolis. Taxpayers paid for our giant Colts stadium with a retractable roof….all while we are struggling economically. Our priorities are completely out of whack. I hate the greedy Colts. I am always happy when they lose.
Don’t travel to Phoenix. You will get to pay for their stadiums by the highest visitor taxes in the nation!
Living here in Mpls, MN, where the Vikings and the Mpls mayor are trying for the 2nd time to have the public buy a rich guy his playground. Mr. Wilf just bought a $19million condo in NYC. Meanwhile my tiny little condo has dropped 50k in value, the taxes have gone up, and basic city services are not being met (potholes, efficient snow removal, etc. etc. etc.).
Last I heard, the team was the MINNESOTA Vikings, yet only the city of Mpls is having this jammed down their throats to pony up the money. Of course the legislators pushing this nasty, one-sided deal are Republicans from outstate MN. They’re fine with a deal like this, as their constituents aren’t on the block to pay. All I see from here is a pack of lies. It disgusts me to no end. If the team leaves, that would be just fine with me, and not affect the quality of my life in any way.
To answer the article’s question: I don’t give a rat’s ass about pro sports. Spoiled millionaires and their collective attitude of entitlement makes them pathetically sad human beings.
This was a terribly opinionated post…bashing on someones appreciation for the athleticism, abilities, among other things, of pro sports players is awfully biased. that’s like asking someone why they waste time reading someone else’s book. either get up off the couch and go exercise, or go write your own book and read that. or…why pay your mechanic to fix your car the right way- get out there and fix it yourself.
And, for the most part I agree with you. It is a waste of time in my eyes as well. but i still appreciate the skill level involved and was downright disgusted when D. Rose blew out his knee a few days ago.
but I know many a people that live or die for a sports team, or even a sport in general.
what’s wrong with to each his own?
I agree with this comment. Would we see an article asking why people “waste” hours reading about fictional characters?
Also, if you’re watching sports at home, can’t you exercise in front of the TV? You don’t have to sit on the couch the whole time.
I thought the article was pretty entertaining. Spending hundreds of dollars a year watching professional sports can be a waste if you don’t enjoy it. Spending $5 watching professional sports is a waste if you don’t enjoy it. Just walk away.
I can’t wait for the follow-up post that talks about how spending $9,000 on Odyssey of the Mind is not all it’s cracked up to be, either.
Me personally, I do try to cut things from the budget if I discover I am no longer getting any benefit from them, regardless of how popular they are to others.
The problem isn’t making the choice, it’s accepting that other people will think less of you if you don’t value what they value (sports, music, art, fashion, charity, conscious spending, whatever). The road less-traveled is sometimes lonely (sorry, Robert!).
The only one of your points that makes any kind of sense is number 1. I don’t care what the athletes do with their money…and I am not sure why anyone else would either. The US Government is terrible with money so maybe we should stop investing in them?
Number 4 may be the most ridiculous, as who are you to say, “it’s silly to care so much” about anything? Some peope live and die with their sports team, other’s treat their cars like living things or love going to weekly competitive trivia contests, etc. Generally people care about something that may be “silly” to an outsider looking in, but that doesn’t make it wrong or a “waste of time, money, and energy.”
Long-time reader, first time commenter because this is one of the more poorly thought out/written articles I have seen.
I was born in Liverpool England. Back in the day when I was born the first three things you learned were whether you were male or female, catholic or protestant, and a Liverpool FC or Everton supporter.
I have lived most of my life as a Liverpool fan and closely follow one other North American football team. I have enjoyed the emotional rollercoaster of both teams I support, but now I am questioning why?
I was indoctrinated as a catholic, as most children born to catholic parents are. I was also indoctrinated as a Liverpool FC fan. (I believe most children follow their parents in team choices as well.
It took me 20 years to see through the silliness of religion, but it seems to have taken me another 40 years to begin to question the place of professional sport in my life.
It isn’t that I want all that viewing time back, but perhaps the world may be better served by putting the hundreds of billions spent on professional sports into things that may help humanity, like clean drinking water or better health care.
Professional sports fans are members of team “tribes.” Tribalism has not served the world very well, particularly in modern times.
We don’t typically think in terms of the “male” tribe, or the “American” tribe or the “Catholic” tribe or the “NY Yankees” tribe. Some of these tribes separated us from our humanity more than others, hence the tribal wars in the Middle East right now.
I may not give up being a LFC fan very soon, but I think it is worth thinking about what we do without blindly doing it.
I’ve been a season ticket holder (at various levels) for the last 11 seasons for an NHL team. This year I am not renewing. Clearly the savings was a huge factor, but I realized that my having a “ticket plan” did not really get me any particular advantage (the team I support is in a non-traditional market) as tickets for most games are readily available. Each season I ended up giving away a few hundred dollars worth of tickets when we weren’t able to go. We also used to subscribe to Center Ice (which is not as expensive as Sunday Ticket, but still 150-200/season) but I just hated seeing that expensive cable bill bump and I realized I was getting sucked into watching games on regular basis when I could have been doing FAR more productive things (reading, interacting with family, evening chores, sleeping).
While 5+ years ago I probably wouldn’t have even considered that I would make this change, it seems ridiculous to NOT.
We’ll still manage to get to an occasional live game but it will be on our own schedule and likely via much cheaper tickets via promos or stubhub.
Now to make sure that savings doesn’t get absorbed by other lifestyle creep. :)
That’s why I only watch college football.
Well, I’m not really a pro sports fan. You would have to pay ME to watch a football game. However, some of my happiest Saturday mornings were spent watching my pre-teen daughter play house league basketball. Didn’t matter if they won or lost, the main thing was that the girls were active and enjoying themselves.
I think it’s just sad that the pro sports players burn through their wealth so quickly. Certainly they could afford to get sound financial advice. What a waste!
Hard to think about saving for a rainy day when you come from the backgrounds some of these kids come from.
I don’t know what I would do without the role models I have in my parents.
OM sounds like a great concept and a great alternative for the kids like me who couldn’t throw a ball worth crap.
I also don’t like how team sports are so divisive. You either one team or the other. I prefer individual sports. It seems that you can support one participant without feeling the need to be ‘against’ all the others.
I’d recommend becoming a high school or college football fan.
Look, I know college football has its ethical issues, but in many cases it can be MUCH cheaper (and much more enjoyable) than the pro game.
Take my city, Chicago. Currently, it costs as much for a near-to-Soldier-Field parking pass for ONE GAME (nearly $200) as it does for SEASON TICKETS to Northwestern football (which you can get to on public transportation via either the El or Metra, and where they have free parking on the campus with shuttle buses to the stadium).
So for the cost of parking at a Bears game, you can watch a team that has gone to 4 straight bowl games, led by a dynamic young coach (Pat Fitzgerald), with student-athletes who graduate (Northwestern has the highest academic standards for athletes in the NCAA, pretty much) and stay out of trouble, and with all the hoopla of college sports (bands, cheerleaders, alumni, students, mascots, tailgating)….oh yeah, and do all of this on Saturday so you can still relax, rest, and watch the NFL on TV on Sunday.
If you can check out your local college football team….sometimes, they can be a GREAT alternative both for fun and financially.
The ethical issues of college sports make the pro leagues look good. Check out the article “The Shame of College Sports” by Taylor Branch in the October 2011 issue of The Atlantic.
Joe Nocera of the New York Times has also been writing an interesting series of op-ed pieces about the arrogance and corruption of the NCAA.
At least pro athletes are handsomely compensated. College players are recruited with lies, used up and discarded without a second thought if they can’t perform as expected, and by and large leave college with no education and no prospects.
I’ve read both articles, and have many disagreements with them — college players are paid in free educations, room and board, tutoring, advanced level physical training (to help them towards their professional goal of playing sports, if that’s what they want), medical care, and even contacts for their post-playing career with influential alumni, etc.
And while there are college programs that mistreat student athletes, my school/team (Northwestern) is one that graduates 100% (or close to it) of its players, offers and honors 4-year scholarship commitments (and because they frequently redshirt players, many get 5th years paid for as well and actually earn a masters degree), promotes a football family atmosphere that greatly reduces off-field issues with players (I really don’t remember the last player to be arrested/suspended for off-the-field transgressions), and generally does things the “right” way.
If the seediness of college sports turns you off, you can/should root for the teams (like Northwestern) that do things right.
My comments on this one are pretty simple
First, you dont have to have the nfl ticket channel to watch good football. I have basic cable and manage to watch football all day long on Saturday and Sunday.
For every football player whose and idiot and a poor role model, there is none who is not (spoken by the mom whose son has followed payton manning since college). Football players are real people just like the rest of us. some make poor decisions, some dont.
If watching football for a few hours on saturday or sunday means you dont get any exercise, thats a problem. YOu cant do that before or after footbal? During the week? In the real world what would you be doing on sunday afternoon if you werent watching football.
Football is a business. as such it feeds the economy. Football teams spend money and pay taxes. We spend money when we buy football gear. Hello capitalism!
As far as it being silly to care, silly is relative. I care who ins the superbowl. However, I dont give a damn who wins dancing with the stars, american idol or survivor……
It’s all part of the Government’s plan to keep your focus on bread and circuses. Over 40% of Americans don’t pay taxes (bread), and you can choose your mindless entertainment (circuses) from the list. Pro sports, Dancing with the Stars, 30 Rock, The Voice, whatever.
What Americans should be paying attention to is how the Fed is baking inflation into their futures… but instead – look, the circus is on. :)
Absolutely. Rome fell after its empire became overextended, corrupt, and its citizens focused on entertainment (circuses).
Makes complete sense!
Also watching professional athletes – at the pinnacle of their prowess – compete, is a sight to behold. That makes one aspire to become one.
Incidentally, the most bang for the buck (playing duration/amount paid for ticket) for a team sport is real football (read ‘soccer’).
Great piece! I’m a diehard college football fan, but you’re right — the older I get, the sillier it feels to live my life vicariously through others. I once heard a millionaire talk about characteristics of successful people, and he pointed out that very few of them are big sports fans. Instead, they are out making their own dreams come true.
I did OM for a few years in elementary and middle school, and loved it and always had a blast. Best of luck!!!
This article sums up pretty well why I stopped watching the NFL last year. I grew up just outside Philly and have been a diehard Eagles fan since birth. However, the ridiculous amount of advertising in games, the egos of the players and the fact a guy like Mike Vick can get $100 million (dog killing aside, he is not that good).
I’m a bigger hockey (GO FLYERS!) fan. The players are far more humble, the action is much faster and constant, and it’s the under dog sport in this country. Sure it has it’s fools (Tocchet, you gambling ring running SOB), but overall is a much better product than any of the other big four sports in the US.
Plus I love the sport so much I took it up after graduating college. Despite not being very good, I love playing it more than anything. I gladly spend at least $1000 a year on equipment and ice fees.
GO FLYERS!
I live in Ames. My husband and I are ISU grads. Let us know if you need any help with local travel details.
We’ll actually be in Ames at Iowa State – any tips would be greatly appreciated! Also, we likely will stop somewhere east of Ames for the first night. Any sights in eastern Iowa that a curious 11-year-old would appreciate? Thanks!
If you are in Eastern Iowa with any type of baseball fan. You need to stop in Dyersville and see the real “Field of Dreams” where the movie was filmed. The corn will likley just planted, so you will not get the total effect. But it is free. http://www.fieldofdreamsmoviesite.com/distance.html
email me at 1217topher2 at gmail dot com
Iowa City is about 2 1/2 hours away from Ames. The Devonian Fossil Gorge outside IC is pretty cool. It’s small, but there’s also hiking around the reservoir and you can go into IC for dinner (and there are plenty of hotels in the Iowa City/Coralville area). Go to Short’s for burgers, or Jon’s Ice Cream in Tiffin, which is the only thing I miss about Iowa.
http://www.mvr.usace.army.mil/coralville/devonian_fossil_gorge.htm
I think sports has a great place in teaching all those things that people say they teach (sportsmanship, teamwork, etc.) at the grade school and high school level. After that it is pretty much non-sense. Playing these sports teaches you that, watching NBA players shove the ref does not.
The NCAA should be ashamed of itself about how it makes a profit off the backs of 18 year olds then don’t graduate them or remotely even help them. Most pro athletes are complete jerks. I still enjoy sports, it passes the time. I will go to a baseball game if I get free or severely discounted tickets somehow. But other than that I don’t spend a dime on it. The last jersey I bought was in junior high.
When I’m at these games I talk to the people around me and they all have some form of season tickets. They don’t seem to have the money to do so. This is the wranglers and timex crowd, not the clothing boutiques and Rolex crowd (I know I’m making assumptions).
I think it is entirely possible to greatly enjoy sports while minimizing your costs. The claim that sports teaches “teamwork” doesn’t make it worth 3k season tickets.
I’ve never been able to get into sports, really. I tried with pro hockey once. I made it through one season, then never went back. It was an experiment, and it left me feeling pretty “meh” about the whole business.
Then again, someone might look at my visceral reaction to the music of the Ramones, Robert Johnson or Rachmaninoff and wonder why I’m so into THAT. But I also make my own music, and I still spend way less bread on the art/hobby/habit. I’d put my lifetime music expenses against five years of a hardcore pro sports nut’s expenses any day. I bet mine don’t even come close.
The only time in my entire life I’ve had an actual argument about sports was in fourth grade, after the Hoosiers won the NCAA championship in 1987. One of the usual stars had been pretty lackluster during the game, and I was trying to rationally point this out, but my friend just wanted to believe that everyone on the team had played the most amazing game in the history of everything, even the ones who spent it on the bench. The disconnect was already in place, I guess.
Have to say, didn’t really enjoy this article. It’s very one-sided and I could pretty much argue against all of the points. It also annoyed me that at the end of the article I was solicited for money. Won’t be reading another article from this writer.
It is very ironic that the author considers being a sports fan a waste of money, but then wants us to donate to something that he considers “important.”
I may just have to write a blog post about why people shouldn’t “waste” their time, money and energy on something like Odyssey of the Mind. Inevitably some of the kids involved will eventually be bankrupt and not contribute to society so why should we care so much? (sarcasm).
Having personally participated in Odyssey of the Mind, I feel it fits much better with the philosophy of this website than the excess and waste of Professional Sports. Odyssey of the Mind encourages creative problem solving using minmal funds.
For example, one year, my team’s task was to create a vehicle powered by 2 different kinds of power sources to pickup objects from a rather large area without touching the floor. Objects, costumes, vehicle and everything had to be constructed for less than $200.
It’s amazing how snobby the anti-sports and anti-television people can be.
I think arts/music are a complete waste, but if that’s how you want to spend every Friday night I’m not going to judge you.
He’s not anti-sports. He’s anti watching pro sports. It’s amazing your inability to read. Keep watching. Have another beer and hotdog. Go Bears! Durrr
Robert,
I don’t know how JD feels about links, but I wrote a blog post about why you shouldn’t care about athletes and celebrities.
http://joedegiorgio.com/2011/11/07/why-you-shouldnt-give-a-damn-about-athletes-and-celebrities/
Having said that, I’m still a big Yankees and Giants fan, and my son is following in my footsteps. As far as attending games and spending my cash, we have a local minor league ball team that is a great value and a lot of fun. We love supporting them the most!
For me, pro sports and especially football are entertainment that can be shared with family and friends. Yeah, pro athletes get paid a lot, but so do movie and TV stars, talk show hosts, radio show hosts, singers, and many others in the entertainment business. Pro athletes also put their health at risk, which IMO should rightly carry a premium. Pro sports are an industry unto themselves. They keep millions of people employed worldwide (fan paraphernalia, television broadcasting, sports reporting, etc.), they bring business to sports bars and stadiums, and the athletes themselves employ their own posses of lawyers, agents, security, and yes-men. Just being realistic, but teachers and the like are not an industry unto themselves.
As for your points…
#1 there is plenty of time to exercise throughout the week and spend all Sunday watching football (or work out in the morning before kickoff). My wife and I get together with her family and occasionally friends to watch NFL games. That is our thing. It’s a great way to socialize. We get Sunday Ticket because we’re way out of market for our teams, and we budget accordingly.
#2 so what? It’s their money. They earned it, they earned the right to blow it.
#3 yes, I can see that. But for me it’s not a reason not to watch. If the criteria for supporting some form of entertainment was that your team/band/cast and all your fans had to be entirely made up of upstanding role models, well…..have fun at the opera I guess. Some people are jerks and it can’t be helped. Water’s wet, and the sky is blue.
#4 this I agree with 100%, but I’ve always been fine with watching my teams lose in spectacularly bad fashion. Once the game is over, it’s over for me. I had no influence in the outcome, so why go crazy over it? That’s what fantasy football is for, so you can stew over losing by one point and blame it all on some guy on some team you couldn’t care less about.
#5 ? I don’t watch a game wishing I could fast-forward to all the highlights. I watch for the experience, for the banter, for the analysis, and for the camaraderie with family, friends, and other fans.
PS – I’m 34, and yes I do remember Testaverde on the Bucs.
As an opera fan I can assure you there’s plenty of bad behavior in that world as well.
I miss OM! I loved the 2 years I got to participate WAAAYYY back in the day in the mid-80s. Congratulations to your son’s team, making world finals is incredibly difficult and I hope they kick butt!
Great article! I know this is not a popular view to have but you are not the only one that feels that way. Thanks for being so brave as to post that!
Bethany, I don’t know why it’s so “brave” to post this. But I’ll admit, as soon as I saw the headline I knew what most of the comments would be like.
What I don’t understand is why one person expressing an opinion touches such a nerve. Hmmm…
I love this post. Being in the bay area, you’re pretty much exposed to every professional sport (baseball, football, hoops, hockey). It’s pretty hard not to get emotionally attached to your team.
I get invested into the teams I follow because at times it’s the only thing consistent in life. Win or lose, they are always there. That being said, you have to find a balance too. As long as you have common sense, I don’t see what the big deal is. I don’t spend money on sporting events as much as I used to. I’ll maybe go to a game once or twice a year, but that’s about it. I especially won’t spend money on a team or owner I feel is incompetent either. I work too damn hard to throw my money away.
As few have mentioned too, it’s a good way to meet people. I’ve met and hung out with a lot of cool people during games and tailgates.
I admit a lot of times it is a waste of time and energy. I could be doing something else productive. But like I said, you just have to find that balance.
HOW TO BE VIRTUOUS IN 2012 NEW PURITAN AMERICA
– Exercise, religiously. Yoga is the preferred choice, as it merges exercise and religion.
– Buy only organic, local and sustainable or be shunned from social life.
– Don’t eat meat (or, alternatively: Don’t eat grains or legumes and eat only organic meat)
– Don’t spend any money whenever possible
– Give to charity, or be shunned
– Condemn profit
– Buy clothes only from thrift stores
– Save everything for the future, die without having any fun, leave all unspent money to charity
– Go everywhere on a fixed-gear bicycle. Walking is good too (but it’s too low class).
– Express solidarity with the poor, but feel above them in every possible way.
– Don’t drink before you’re 21. Don’t drink after leaving college.
– Don’t watch sports, but be there to annoy your kids at every sports practice.
– Don’t eat snacks. Unless it’s edamame.
– Be “offended” as often as you can.
– Don’t have any fun except for fun that has been pre-approved by the virtue police, such as voluntary farm labor and highway litter collection.
– If you’re having any fun, replace fun with remorse and condemn yourself in public
– Find evil everywhere you look! It’s a sign of virtue.
—
Seriously people– you’re boring.That’s no virtue. I don’t want your horribly dull life. Please keep your boredom to yourself.
I wonder why people get so touchy about ONE man expressing his OPINION?
Why, I am just ONE man expressing my OPINION too. :P
But if you must know, this wasn’t about Robert’s article alone. This is kind of the last (or latest) straw of silly nihilism disguised as personal finance. And by nihilism I mean the impulse to devalue everything good in life with lame moralistic condemnations.
As for Robert’s article itself, it was annoying, dull, and very poorly argued, but I didn’t address that specifically in my comments– other people in this thread have done a better job of it already.
lol about going everywhere on a fixed gear bike, that is a big fad here
Ha ha yeah. I wanted to catalog more trends but I ran out of time :D
(maybe: “walking is low class unless it’s done in minimalist shoes” :P )
Like the Vibrams?
This is so funny! At least I assume you are writing “tongue in cheek” and are intending it to be funny?
It’s a kind of mixed bag really. I did start with satire, making fun of middle class hipster values, but in the end I was so mad I couldn’t help myself and let the anger come out. Hey, I’m only human, and can only be preached at so much before I snap.
Thank you El Nerdo, your commentary keeps me coming to this blog. Other than that it is mostly a new post every day about how the way I live is wrong and the things I like are stupid and a waste of time.
I still find a lot of good stuff in this blog, but when drivel like this article gets posted I feel it’s my civic duty to speak up, ha ha.
Okay, let me nip this in the bud. Yes, there are certain recurring themes on this blog. Yes, there are certain values that the writers hold that go counter to popular culture. However — and this is a big however — so what?
Why do you care what other people think? If you value something and you’re making a conscious decision to pursue that passion (whether it’s professional sports, television programs, or a Ford Excursion), then who gives a rat’s ass what other people think of your spending? I mean, I spend money on COMIC BOOKS, for goodness sake.
More than that, here’s a secret: I am not judging you, and I don’t think any of the other writers are either. When I write about something, I’m trying to get people to think. I know perfectly well there are no one-size-fits-all answers. That’s why the motto at this site has always been “do what works for you”. In other words, take what you want and leave all the rest behind.
But it frustrates me when people start leaving comments about how all this site does is make them feel bad. If that’s the case, why are you reading it? Go somewhere else. We’re honestly trying to provide useful information for people, or to make them think. If that’s not working for you, then maybe you’d be better off at The Simple Dollar or Bargaineering or one of the hundreds of other personal finance blogs. Get Rich Slowly can’t be all things to all people. Rather than sit around and complain about the fact that it doesn’t work for you, either leave or contribute something productive. But to stick around and bitch about things doesn’t help anyone — not even you.
But dude, the values that the writers hold aren’t really outside the mainstream. This isn’t a nest of radicals. These are actually very mainstream middle-class first-world liberal late-capitalist values; one part Cotton Mather, one part Whole Foods.
The thing though is that when things get repeated without question they begin to solidify into rigid ideologies, and critical thinking gives way to conformity, and the old revolutionary becomes the new fascist.
Frankly, reading Robert’s article is like witnessing one of those self-criticism sessions where Maoist militants castigate themselves for not being revolutionary enough. You ever heard of those? I have too often, I’m afraid.
Anyway, I’m verbose by nature and enjoy arguing, but just because John R is laconic or lets others do the talking it doesn’t mean he’s not on to something, namely, that “enlightened” writers can often be annoyingly patronizing, and even patently wrong. Why alienate readers?
Why alienate readers?
Especially readers who haven’t figured it all out. Readers who may still be trying to find a way to balance a desire to backpack through South East Asia and enjoy a round of golf every week.
Calling something ‘silly’, especially something as mainstream as enjoying pro-sport is clearly a call out to be contradicted.
Fankly, I do think watching pro-sport is silly. So why aren’t I nodding along with Brokamp?
BTW, this wasn’t the article I thought it would be when I read it.
Yeah people are taking things way too personally, if it’s not about you (you have a healthy relationship with your entertainment choices) don’t make it about you.
Gadfly lol
THE LAST WORD
Ok, maybe I’m here a bit late but here’s how outside the mainstream this blog is– so outside the mainstream fits smack right into this funny website:
http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/full-list-of-stuff-white-people-like/
Let’s see how many checkmarks we get!
farmer’s markets – check; organic food- check; gifted children! (and begging for them)– why, right in this article, check; non-profit organizations– check, yoga–check, traveling–check, not having a TV… wow, i’m dizzy keeping count!
[edit: 101- being offended, 99- grammar, 87-outdoor performance clothes, 82- hating corporations, 75- threatening to move to canada, 55-apologies…making you feel bad for not going outside… oh, the list is ENDLESS!]
This isn’t outside the mainstream, it’s 100% predictable!
ps- I’m not drinking any hemlock! :D
Nerdo: ?????
I defend you, and then you go all…well, crazy on me?
For one, I’m not saying this blog is outside the mainstream. YOU folks were complaining that sometimes GRS makes you feel guilty for liking the things you like. I pointed out that sometimes the writers hold values that are counter to popular culture. And it’s true. We do. I get ripped apart every time I mention tiny houses, for instance, which isn’t very often. (But the readers make me feel like I mention them every week!)
So, you guys are complaining that we’re taking counter-cultural positions, and then when I respond that sometimes that’s true, you turn around and start complaining that we’re all “stuff white people like”? That’s crazy. You know that, right? You’re arguing both sides of the issue. We at GRS can’t possibly win. You’re telling us we’re too extreme but also that we’re too mainstream. Which is it?
My point remains: We’re doing our best to help people. Occasionally there will be articles you disagree with or which don’t help you. Fine. When that happens, ignore the articles or complain productively. But don’t be obnoxious about it. For the most part, you (El Nerdo) aren’t obnoxious. But a veces? A veces sÃ.
Alright JD you are right. I have been reading your blog for over 2 years and used to enjoy it a lot but it has become far to preachy lately. I think that it would be more honest to change the description of the blog from personal finance to ‘west coast’ lifestyle. But since only positive comments are appreciated around here I wont comment any more and wont bother reading anymore either.
John — I sent you e-mail, which is what I should have done in the first place. I apologize for engaging you in public, which was poor form on my part.
EDIT: OH CRAP CRAP CRAP. I DIDN’T SEE JD’S FOLLOWUP BEFORE I POSTED THIS. DAMN PAGE REFRESHES!
————
Well, duh, of course I was being obnoxious! You think I live in The Nile or something? (not the river in Egypt)
I was making fun of you and letting you have it for going unwarrantedly apeshit on one of your readers, you big dolt. Of course having a ready-made hilarious website as a source of parody helped.
And no, this wasn’t because he likes my comments. I usually don’t get into rows like this for insults against me. But injustices get my goat in a major way–so there.
I think you got defensive and went too far with him, even singled him out though he had a bunch of thumbs up– but eh! It’s your blog, not mine, so kill every messenger if you feel like it.
—–
EXTRA-EDIT: LOL @ HILARIOUS BAD TIMING.
i take some of this back. if it doesn’t make sense, just imagine JD’s note right above this one wasn’t there. cuz it wasn’t when i started writing! :(
but yeah, it made perfect sense at the time.
You forgot to mention hostel travel !
Ha ha, yeah, I didn’t forget, I meant to include it, I swear, but it got lost in the edits (the 30 minute window got me first).
lol! You forget one though:
– use perfect spelling and grammar at all times (and correct other people’s spelling and grammar whenever possible).
Oh yeah, that one. I wish I would write a whole article about this ha ha.
(Who remembers that Vinny Testaverde began his career in Tampa?)
I Do! Loved Vinny!
I remember a great quote by John McKay while they were losing all their games in their first season. The reporter asked the coach ‘What do you think of your offense’s execution.’ To which McKay replied ‘I’m in favor of it.’
Vinny was the man!
I don’t watch or participate in sports, but I do not like this article, I can’t help but imagine the author to be some sad-faced hipster sitting on a really expensive and uncomfortable chair. My opinion is that Americans are so bored with their lives of plenty that they turn on themselves and/or their friends and start their own sport of extreme nitpicking and out-frugalling each other. Using every logical fallacy possible they make hundreds of silly little personal rules and then pass them along to their neurotic children.
People who work very hard to survive like to be able to lose themselves in something other than their daily struggle for a few days a month and sports is one way of doing this. It also lets people dream, like a very poor kid with a worn ball kicking it in a very dirty street, but in his mind he is elsewhere.
Think globally, stop solving problems that are only in your head.
This post is not just about one person’s odyssey sitting before a box and taking in a game.
It is about the history of a person, the source of interest, experience in participating in a game, memories of friendships with people now gone, and pride in the worth of a team or player.
I agree, there are lots of mistakes made by players, owners, and viewers. But, after all, we are speaking of human beings. People make mistakes. They don’t always win.
As for me, I will continue to watch what is available. Our family will still forgive the unforgivable errors sometimes made. We will hope for a better performance tomorrow.
You can make these same kind of arguments about many other leisure activities, like movies (and actors), tv shows, etc. Yeah, they are all a “waste” of time, the highest levels are paid obscenely, the people involved in those endeavors may go bankrupt…
Personally never been interested in watching sports (except for an occasional US open or Wimbleton) but I think everyone has to weigh the pros and cons of how they spend their leisure time for themselves.
As a woman, I LOVE watching sports, specifically baseball and physical art (figure skating, gymnastics, dance, etc).
I am also very physically active. I really loathe articles that paint a specific subject or type of person into the same box. Stereotyping isn’t cool.
This is a great write-up and I’ve been contemplating delving into sports and our obsession with them in an upcoming post.
I played sports ALL THE TIME as a child and there is no doubt that it can teach you certain principles that you can use throughout life: leadership, teamwork, sacrifice, discipline, hard work, etc.
However, it is AMAZING how much emphasis parents place on their children’s sports these days. The amount of hours dedicated to practicing and playing games. Kids these days (even at young ages of 6 or 7) practice multiple nights a week and have multiple games on the weekend. What if you used that time to spend quality time with your kids, or better yet, what if kids actually spent as much time studying as they do on practicing sports?
I’d venture to say that our country would be headed in a better direction if that was the case.
Robert, just for the record, I appreciate that you tossed out such a contrarian post. :-)
I give thanks on a weekly basis that my husband does not watch televised sports. He is one of those who would rather play than watch. And he would rather watch something on TV that I am also interested in watching, so we can enjoy it and talk about it together.
He also likes to BE active. Our sport now is ballroom dancing, which has the benefit of being truly social as well as physically challenging.
On the macro scale, I don’t think professional sports are necessarily any worse of a business model than many others. There are plenty of relatively harmless ways people waste money, watching sports is one of them. People can take any hobby to extremes.
I do object, pretty strongly, to tax dollars being spent on facilities for professional sports teams, and to public education funds going to college sports programs (which are mostly just farm teams for the pro leagues) at the expense of actual academics.
“public education funds going to college sports programs”
Thats a common complaint.
A few points :
– Athletic subsidies are probably around 1-2% of university spending as a whole so its not a huge percent of their money.
-Football and basketball usually make profits. So if you’re upset that the football team got a big stadium upgrade then that may be unwarranted. Usually football and basketball subsidize all the other sports which all lose money and the net to the university is still a loss. e.g. the Florida state football team makes a $2 million profit, the FSU basketball team makes $600k and the rest of the sports combined loses $3 million so the net cost of athletics for the school is $400k.
– If you look at public schools around top 10% are self sufficient and get no subsidy for their sports. So those colleges there should be no complaint about at all.
– Still that leaves ~90% where the athletics get subsidy. But a lot of that subsidy goes towards an expense category labeled ‘student support’. That means free college educations for college kids who happen to be the athletes. Much of the tax dollars subsidizing athletics goes to pay for tuition for those athletes. If you don’t consider the student aid as a negative then the subsidy isn’t nearly as bad and probably closer to half of universities are really just using the ‘athletic subsidy’ money to give kids free tuition. Going back to Florida State, they have about a $400k subsidy for athletics. But their athletics programs put $7.7 million into student support. Thats not a bad deal for tax dollars.
After the points above there are still the bottom half of universities that use tax dollars to subsidize the university athletic program yet the athletic program doesn’t generate any profit and spends money far above what they use to give students free tuition. For THOSE schools, I do agree they really should be cutting back on athletics.
I forgot one other item: A whole LOT of the olympic medals brought home by US athletes are around the necks of college students. So subsidy of college athletics also helps subsidize our olympic athletes.
I think Brokamp made some good points. I don’t think he’s telling people to stop watching professional sports, just to consider how much money/time they’re spending and if it’s worth it. Many of the points could apply to any form of entertainment. What I got out of the article was the importance of balance. Don’t let yourself get obsessed. Although I’ve known people obsessed with all kinds of things, I’ve known more football-obsessed people than any other type. That’s probably just due to the local culture.
5. Is one season really that different from last season?
I’m not much of a basketball fan, and when the folks in my office gather around a TV during March Madness, I’ll walk up and say, “Look, a guy threw a ball through a hoop! Oh, look — it happened again! Wow, there it is again!â€
Your coworkers must adore you.
I also love the “I judge how you spend your time and money….now give it to my son!’ plug.
Wish I could like this comment multiple times
I added one, I hope it helps.
Congrats on making it to World – my sister’s team did that twice :) Good luck to them!
I don’t care if someone watches any sport, but the meme that the fans pay the players salaries is mostly false. TV revenue pays the players salaries. Advertisements cost the fans nothing. Ticket sales and merchandise goes to the owners.
So get off the idea that fans pay the players salaries. It’s just not the truth.
Sports are fun to me and a way of entertainment. I know that a lot of people go way too far when it comes to professional sports but I think they are fine in moderation.
I can’t believe someone thought it was okay to say something to the OP’s child.
“Hey, little girl — come over here and I’ll paint your face.â€
Really?
I used to have be the same way. My teams meant everything to me. Going to the games couldnt get any better. Some of it is having a child’s innocent perspective. However, now that I am older and honestly more jaded. I care less and less about my teams success. Sure, its fun when they win, but I find no anger in a bad call or a missed shot.
A great article is Justin Halpern’s Your Favorite Team Doesn’t Give a Damn About You
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7654198/the-writer-sh*t-my-dad-says-why-your-team-give-damn-you
I recall seeing somewhere that some teams offer money management courses to their athletes, but maybe it should be mandatory. Pro athletes are anywhere between 18 and 22 when they suddenly start earning huge sums of money. Of course they get into trouble.
The NFL players are at least fortunate that they’ve attended some college, and may even have a degree, but how do you go from being on TV every week playing a game to working at a desk in some corporate office? On top of the brain damage and other injuries that some suffer. If the teams are going to reap major paydays off these young men, then they owe it to their players to prepare them for life after sports.
I can’t say I’m rooting for your son – I happen to know the parents of a rival…
What I can’t figure out is how on earth soemone can justify it costing 9K for this OM thing. That’s a lot of money for elementary kids to cough up.
I could think of a thousand worse things to watch on TV besides pro sports. Dancing with the Stars, anything involving the Kardashian plague, “political punditry”, the Weather Channel, “Reality Shows”, I could literally do this for hours.
If your point is to exercise more and get off the couch, fine. But if your point is to stop watching sports just because you are jaded, pissoff. It does sound like you have a fanatical relationship with sports. Face painting and ruining your whole day becuase the Bucs are terrible. The Bucs? Really? And Warren Sapp is an asshole and you are suprised? Lemme guess…your world crumbled when Tiger turned out to be a drug popping womanizer?
The bottom line is that only a small percentage of fans take it to that level, the rest of us just enjoy the game…whatever that game may be.
I usually really like Brokamps articles but I honestly don’t like this one.
I don’t like articles that really just serve to effectively criticize someones choice of pastime or leisurely pursuits. Thats not personal finance.
If you want to point out ways to save money while watching sports then thats OK. You can save money by not buying stadium tickets and by limiting your cable TV bills. Thats not condemning sports but is instead suggesting a frugal option. Declaring pro sports to be a ‘waste of time, money and energy’ entirely however is not really the same as being frugal.
I also don’t agree with the logic of the points made.
1. exercising versus watching sports is a false dichotomy. Its not an either-or choice between those two things.
2. Why does the financial skill of athletes have anything to do with whether or not I might enjoy watching some football on Sunday? THe two things are really not related. I’m not buying a share in their company.
3. Lots of things can bring out the worst in people. I would list off hand : driving a car, alcohol, debating politics, the internet and xmas shopping. That doesn’t mean that any of these things are bad. Some people are jerks in the shopping mall the day before Xmas… that doesn’t mean we should abolish the holiday. People just need to relax and not be jerks to one another.
Riots in Egypt have absolutely nothing to do with my choice of leisure pursuits.
4. OK you have a good point that YOU shouldn’t take sports so seriously. Most of us don’t take it that seriously. If you or someone else has a problem where you get far too worked up about sports then thats a good reason to do something to address that situation.
5. No, every game is not the same. And I honestly hope you aren’t that obnoxious to your co-workers unless they return the same and its all in good fun. But I don’t think if something is consistent or repetitive that is really a condemnation of it. Evertime I listen to the Beatles its the same song and same recording. Does that mean I should stop listening to Beatles music since I’ve already heard it? Of course not.
None of the points made are a good argument that watching pro sports is a waste.
I’m a really big sports fan. I think you make a lot of valid points. Especially the one about not getting so emotionally attached to professional sports. I’m definitely guilty of that.
http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/01/20/9-making-you-feel-bad-about-not-going-outside/
http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/01/22/17-gifted-children/
I have to comment because apparently I’m in the minority here. I do NOT enjoy watching sports, never have. Neither of my parents enjoyed watching professional sports, so it is not something I have any nostalgic childhood memories of.
I spent 12 years or so living in the Pacific Northwest, where it seems a lot of the GRS readers live, and so I relate-for lots of them, sports is a relatively low-key entertainment. Then I moved to the Midwest, specifically to Nebraska, where Cornhuskers rule EVERYTHING. As someone who doesn’t give a you-know-what about sports, I found myself distinctly in the minority. I don’t think liking sports is wrong, but why am -I- wrong for not giving a crap about a bunch of men in tight pants and padded jerseys bashing each other up and down the field? I wouldn’t say I’m judging those who like sports poorly (one of my closest friends here is a die-hard Nebraska football fan), but I am kind of mind-boggled by it! It seems SO boring to me!
It truly is an obsession here for a majority of the population, and I just can’t identify for all the reasons Robert listed: expensive, brings out the worst in people (like that guy that got beat up and put in a coma at the Dodgers game last year in California by fans from the opposing team!!!), involves a lot of sitting vs. actually enjoying being active, and frankly, it doesn’t seem to change that much from season to season.
So, thanks, Robert and JD, this article resonated for me!
Although I didn’t agree with the article, Junior Seau’s death yesterday highlighted one of the misgivings I DO have about professional sports, specifically football: that we’re watching men destroy their bodies, and sometimes their minds, for entertainment value. If Seau turns out to have suffered brain damage from multiple concussions, as has happened to several other NFL veterans, the league will really have to reexamine the way it does things. New rules have been put in place to try to stop the worst hits, but are they enough? It kills me because I love pro football. I want to see the game evolve and become better, not be tarred by an ever-increasing number of tragedies.
“Sports can bring out the worst in people”…..Indeed, BUT it can also bring out the best in people.
The financial problems defined here (not being able to manage finances) is IMO not related at all with sports.
The problems mentioned here are exactly the same with actors and musicians.
I found nothing of value in this particular article. Why? Because anyone can crunch numbers on why another person’s past time is a waste of time and money. There is no objectivity in this piece at all. That’s unfortunate.
While I understand the general point, I think that there’s a huge leap between losing sleep over a football game and then playing the “oh that guy just threw a ball through a hoop game”
Like anything else it’s all in moderation. I find my level of excitement mounting March 1 because I know I will soon be in Florida watching my beloved Cardinals in Spring Training and then a few weeks later Opening Day (yes it’s capitalized here in St. Louis) will be upon us. Now do I spend money on the Cardinals, yes but it’s money that I budget in for my entertainment expenses and as long as I keep within that, I’m fine with it.
I am a sports nut and grew up in a sports loving family. Both my brother and I played college sports and continue to pursue athletic endeavors today. I have incredibly fond memories of games, tournaments, teammates, etc. To date some of my closest friends in adulthood are those teammates I had in high school and college. I think when done correctly, sports are an integral part of youth where you learn about perseverance, commitment, teamwork and teaching the concept of graceful defeat.
As to the situation of retired athletes, I think this has more to do with education than anything. Very few players graduate from college or even have proficiency in the core subjects because they were always helped along by those who saw the dollar signs behind them, which is one of sports’ greatest downfalls, but applies to less than 1% of all people actively participating in athletics in any given time.
I agree with much of what this is saying and that’s why, during football season, I find myself extra motivated during the week to get my work outs done so that I don’t have that feeling of regret on Sunday because football just is something that is important to me and that isn’t going to change.
I think you’ve overlooked the fantastic social aspect that football provides. As a Seahawks season ticket holder I look forward to and enjoy spending time with my tailgate group and 67,000+ other fans. There are over 30 million people who play fantasy football (me not included) and I think a lot of the joy in that is the trash talking and interacting with your fellow competitors.
I do however take great exception to the statement “watching other people exercise”. It’s been said that being involved in a football tackle is like being in a small car crash. With the news this week about Junior Seau and all that is happening around football that is visibly changing the game America loves, I think it is more apt to say that these guys are out there killing themselves for our entertainment, and probably the rush they get from a raucous stadium, but I for one am thankful. Warren Sapp is hardly a unique story when more than 70% of the players get out of the league face financial troubles or, like Seau and Dave Duerson, face unimaginable medical consequences.
I can only guess what kind of exercises you must be doing but in this case it is a GROSS understatement.
I never got why so many people are attracted to watching sports. I understand why it’s fun to actively participate in a sport but it’s impossible for me to understand the pride that some people feel when a team wins, simply because the team happens to be located nearby my home. This widespread collectivist approach to sports has always puzzled me. Why so happy that “we” won if all you did was watching other people play?
Exactly. These people are simple minded, lazy people looking for anything to represent them. Sad.
So you are okay wit slave labor, which is what college sports are period!
Why judge atheles harsher tnan we do people that are responsible for killing innocent women and childern. Ooh Yeah most of them are black. I wish George W Bush was not a hero to our childern, and that Regan guy…? Please!
What people do with their well-earned (?) time and/or money is basically up to them, as long as it’s legal of course. It’s however interesting to notice that with the invent of machines that take over physical labour from us we seem to be either moving less and less (if we watch) or if we move make useless moves (if we play). On the other hand, the sports people can also be considered to produce pleasurable experiences in watchers so their play (=work as they’re getting paid for it) definitely seems to serve some purpose. The dislike or contempt we can observe in a lot of people of healthy physical exercise or labour is disconcerting in that it’s not healthy if combined with unhealthy eating and drinking habits. So, although there only seem to be benefits to using machines as much as possible there are also disadvantages that are not taken into account by many people. Two wrap things up, I enjoy doing the dishes myself although I could use a dishwasher myself, and there’s probably some other things that I like to do myself instead of using a machine instead.
I couldn’t agree more. Sport is something most people just watch. It feeds into the self serving entity of economic growth. Whilst we invest our time, emotions, finances into mindless fluff the world dies around us. We are distracted from reality because if we woke up we would turn from this illusion and face the reality of what our choices are causing. Our brothers and sisters are experience more pain, fear and suffering caused purely by our conditioning which none of us would choose if we were looking in the eyes of our victims. At some point we will all wake up. How many have to suffer for us to realise?
Apples
Pro sports are BORING!! All they represent today is cheating, eliminating the rules, blown out athletes and overpriced tickets. I used to be a football, baseball and hockey fan. Tell you the honest truth? Sports have run their course. Who cares anymore. Especially when you are watching a game that has no rules. Isn’t that the point??? I was always on teams and competitive myself, but as far as pro goes – WHO CARES!!
What would society be WITHOUT sports?? Absolutely BORING. In fact, what would society be without sports, music, TV, & any form of entertainment in general? What would society be without anything that’s FUN? Is that the kind of society you folks want to live in? A world that’s “boring” & no fun??
Sure, there might some issues in sports, but sports can be inspiring, motivating, & just pure entertainment. Most of you people here sound like SNOBS that have no interest in doing ANYTHING fun in life. You just want to sit there & gripe about how problematic the world is.
Sports ISN’T going anywhere. It’ll be around forever, & there will be MILLIONS of sports around the world whether you like it or not. Sports can bring people together. We can bound over various sporting events, even get to know people because of sport.
BTW, I’m watching sports right now as I speak, Does this bother you? Are you going to tell me how dumb I am because I watch sports? I LOVE watching sports & so do a lot of people in today’s society, regardless of whatever issues exist. Because we LOVE sports, both watching, & playing. Facts are facts. Learn to live with it.
Can you read? The author didn’t say anything about getting rid of sports. He’s only questioning WATCHING PRO-SPORTS. Maybe you should pick up a book and put down the remote. I have a book for you. It’s called “Dick and Jane.”
I needed this article to day! I watched my Auburn Tigers lose the BCS championship and it rocked my whole day.They had such an awesome season but couldn’t pull it off. We don’t realize how easy it is to start ‘caring too much’ about a sport and how much of our identity can be related to the win or lose of our team. I need to emotionally disassociate with college football…gotta get free. War Eagle!
Some comments here are a perfect illustration of what is wrong with competitive team sports and the people who are unbalanced/unhinged about them. There are many people that have a healthy relationship and know where to draw the line and how seriously to take things, but others obviously don’t.
For the unhinged, how would the author DARE say watching some sports were not worthwhile for the payoff to them, personally? Of course that person must be a *communist* or even worse a *hipster*. Oh horror!
We all should know that anyone who doesn’t like sports or doesn’t want to drop their money on it anymore should be shouted down. Oh yes, also lets beat some fans of the opposing team into pulp and turn them into vegetables after the game. The game is the most important of all things.
The level of involvement where someone starts hurling personal insults at someone they don’t know and don’t know anything about indicate a problem and an unthinking and stupid tribalism. I’m looking at some posters here. This is what is wrong with some people in sports fandom and it’s sadly all too common and often much more common than in other pastimes.
I also agree that people all like different things. But I don’t see the same out of control behavior from people who go to movies or who read fiction or go to opera or theatre or whatever. Sure they might disagree about what is good or bad, go to great lengths to attend and other things. Maybe I missed the last opera riots or spouting ad hominem attacks against anyone who disagrees with your taste?
Competitive sports people, can you keep the crazies in your camp under control if you don’t want to be painted with the broad brush as being the same as them?
Religion and politics has this problem, also, but I don’t see it to the same extent in other areas. Why is it that these groups of people generate such extremism and what can you do to get it under control?
Let’s make it simple: pro sports are for the peasants these days. They’re for lazy, boring, uninspired, easily-amused people and their like. What reasonably intelligent person would be inspired by these athletes and the system that created them? What family man would want to take his children to a game with the losers that fill the stands, getting drunk, fighting, and wishing to be twelve years old again? And with all the other avenues for entertainment these days, I’m going to sit on the couch for four hours and watch this? Don’t watch. Do. Do something with your life.
I’ve thought this way for years. Pro Sports are for the peasants. With so many options for entertainment, and the lack of inspiration in sports these days, who is watching this crap? Poor people? Who are the ones getting wasted at the stadium, in the parking lot, starting fights? Poor people. Who would rather sit on the couch than go out and exercise or get more education? Poor people. The athletes, most of them, come from poor backgrounds, so this makes sense, but do the athletes represent the poor? Hell no, they want to look like millionaires! And do middle class and rich people have anything in common with these players any more? Do the players represent the city? Does the team? The owners? No. Nothing wrong with being poor and working hard, but the point is, do these sports entertain anybody else?
[As] for comparing professional sports, a pastime, to art forms like music and visual media… There’s a reason those are actually important and celebrated, they’ve furthered mankind in ways professional sports never will…. Like lets compare the value and contributions to humanity between Socrates and Tom Brady, [not] in the same boat. ..
Simple minds care about people, average minds care about events, great minds care about ideas.
I agree about tribalism, but in many ways sports are a way to channel this need for tribalism into a form that’s safe and nonthreatening (usually) for society.
I look at video games, sports, television and most other forms of passive consumption of entertainment as big wastes of time.
I spend my free time coding and building up projects.
A good way to appraise the value of where you send your time is whether it is focused on creating something for others to consume, or whether you are just consuming the work of others.
Finally someone with common sense.