Three things the Amish taught me about money
Yesterday, a couple of readers pointed me to a CNN Money article about why Amish businesses don’t fail. Good timing, because today’s post is from the author profiled in that piece.
Most people associate the Amish with certain things: simplicity, rumspringa, funny hats. I’ve been fortunate enough to spend a lot of time with Amish over the past few years. And I’ve found there’s both truth and myth behind many of the perceptions.
But one thing that is accurate is the idea that Amish use money and resources wisely. I’d like to share a few observations from my time in Amish America — simple ideas for amping up your savings accounts, cutting waste, and maximizing what you get out of what you already have.
Lower Tech, Lower Costs
Contrary to common belief, the Amish do actually accept a good degree of technology. During a recent stay at my Amish friend Abe’s home, his three-year-old woke up one evening with a nasty bark. I first thought it to be whooping cough (sounds pretty Dickensian, I know) but turned out to be the “croup”, something less menacing.
The next morning, Abe asked me to pick up a medicinal vaporizer from Wal-Mart. The kind with a plug that goes in the wall. Abe’s home, of course, lacks the outlets needed for that type of thing.
You may be wondering how they expected to operate it. Well, the Amish do have a way of using plug-in devices. Diesel-powered generators coupled with an inverter (a device that creates 110-volt current) can produce enough juice to operate small appliances. It’s how they run their 1950s-era wringer-style washing machines and a variety of other implements.
Before you start to think that the Amish have sold out somewhere along the line: It’s inconvenient and loud having a diesel engine blasting in your backyard, so it’s not something you’re apt to overuse. And running one round-the-clock isn’t cheap.
And that’s the point: Amish allow certain technology, but the way they use it is costly and inconvenient, so they’re compelled to limit its usage.
Amish choose to restrict ownership of technology for a couple of reasons:
- First, owning cars and having new gadgets around the house both invite the world in and take them far from home, potentially threatening their way of life, affecting family and community.
- Secondly, accumulating all the latest gizmos (as many of us know firsthand) can get pretty expensive.
The takeaway? We’re not talking about trading in the Chevy sedan for a Yoder buggy. But it makes one wonder: How much cash does overuse of technology (or for some, an outright addiction to it) suck out of our pockets?
It could be anything from the new set of wheels every third year to the seemingly cheap iPhone apps to the value of the time burnt browsing the net for hours. Hang onto your laptop. But it’s worth thinking about how we use technology — not just in terms of the benefits it brings, but the costs it imposes.
Debt is a Tool — and a Bit of It is Healthy
Along the same lines, some Amish do use credit cards. It’s nothing near a majority, but those who use credit do so for convenience’s sake. Habit and a mentality that says you always pay back your debts means that Amish rarely carry a balance. They use credit cards as one ought to — as a tool that makes life easier, not as a way to spend beyond one’s means.
Much more common among Amish would be taking advantage of bank credit for a home mortgage or to fund a business. Not only does this help one reach life and business goals, but when used properly, it can even be a motivator. Having something to pay back gets you out of bed and gets you moving, as an Amishman once explained to me. So the right type of debt, Amish realize, can be healthy.
Lose the high-interest consumer type as quickly as you can by following the debt snowball method or the other great ideas detailed here on Get Rich Slowly. But do take advantage of the right kind of debt as a tool to build a future.
“Little Things Make a Big Difference at the End of the Year.”
This advice came from an Amish business owner who is also a bishop, so when I remember it, it comes with an extra dose of gravitas. (Amish bishops come with the gravitas built-in!)
Along those lines, another Amish entrepreneur brought up the impact of longer breaks. He figured 10 extra minutes a day added up to a week of work lost on an annualized basis. Writing this makes me wonder how many weeks of work I burn checking emails (like I did just now) in the middle of tasks where I’m meant to concentrate (there I go again) until completion.
Abe, an organic produce farmer who is also something of a coffee fanatic, brought a battered travel mug along on a recent road trip. “I guess I should probably wait a while before getting a new one,” he explained. This was just one of many little day-to-day costs that Abe was avoiding. Though it looked a bit beat-up, and maybe didn’t insulate as it once did, it still kept the coffee off my floorboards and in the mug. The bottom line is that if it still works, it still has value.
This extends to the things we might normally toss. The coffee grounds from that morning brew end up on Abe’s flowerbed to fertilize the plants. The eggshells from our 6 a.m. breakfast go back out to the chicken house, where the birds like to peck at them for calcium. Once picked, Abe’s produce is housed in an old semi-trailer converted into a cooling unit. Nothing gets wasted and new uses are found for seemingly tired and spent items.
Even Abe has his weak spots, though, and he lets himself off the hook with a small treat from time to time. For this health-conscious Amishman, that means those fresh-squeezed store-bought juices that cost triple the regular price. He’ll splurge occasionally. It makes him happy.
The point: Little savings matter. But even the Amish don’t take things to extreme extremes. If you’re consciously living a frugal lifestyle, treat yourself from time to time, so you don’t end up resenting it and regressing to old habits.
Not Reinventing the Buggy Wheel
This isn’t revolutionary stuff. But it doesn’t take revolutionary ideas to amp up your savings and slash waste from your life. Simple ideas work — one reason Amish businesses have shown a 5-year survival rate of over 90%, roughly twice the US average.
Applying these ideas, whether in business or in life, doesn’t take an MBA or even a GED, as 8th-grade educated Amish prove. Rather, it takes a choice, or rather a series of repeated choices, in the way we think about things like debt, spending, and what we throw away.
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There are 65 comments to "Three things the Amish taught me about money".
It’s funny- I’ve always been teased that my family is Amish. I’ve had a slight obsession with them and would love to live on a farm! Of course, I would miss the internet too much. 🙂
Oh, and another thing: They do their own “health insurance” and pay cash at doctors and hospitals.
wrong
when its bad they sponge lots of expensive care from hospitals. especially cancer patients
OR, they just die with no care
It’s a sad ass life they live as they do not think about the future except when screwing others for money
Fascinating post!
I imagine being part of a tightly-knit community also goes a long way towards saving money. Being able to borrow things, and trade services, can cut living (and business) expenses dramatically.
I’ve read the book and I love Erik’s blog. It’s a pretty cool thesis about to work.
I have a very high level of respect for the Amish. I think they can teach us alot! Especially about community, frugality, and appreciation for simple things.
I don’t think I could live quite as strictly as they do, but I think their simpler way of life is what I’m constantly striving for (without a whole lot of success I might add.)
I used to think the Amish were admirable. Then I read about their puppy mills and how they exploit and neglect dogs for money.
Changed how I feel a lot. Not saying everyone has to feel the same way but I do.
I blogged on it once:
http://tomschreck.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/conspiracy-tuesday-amish-puppy-mills/
I agree with you, Tom. I still think the Amish have lots of good qualities, and are a very frugal culture, but their treatment & breeding of dogs and puppies is horrendous. While they may treat their horses fairly well, they don’t treat their “profits” (puppies) well. Dogs are housed in small cages, bred, and puppies are houses the same way, and then sold. Generally no medical treatment. All in the name of making as much money as they can.
I have a lot of respect for the Amish, but with that being said I sometimes wonder if we over idealize them.
Every point made here is good. But recently when I came across a similar article I was able to read some comments from people who have lived and worked with Amish that weren’t as complimentary. One that stuck with me as an engineer is their view of education. I don’t know if there is a comfortable way to be an Amish engineer, dentist, or medical doctor. Yeah, the Amish don’t really have a need for IT specialists, but if you are an Amish Einstein, do you simply have to leave the community? You can’t be half Amish: living without electricity at home and driving into the city on work days.
Once again, I agree that there is a lot to learn from that way of life about life and family as well as finance, but as with everything if we over idealize it we wind up missing the whole story.
I love Amish furniture. After getting an Amish chair we were no longer able to spend less money on overpriced crappy furniture… so we’ve still got empty rooms as we slowly save up to buy at $1 to $2K per piece. There’s just such a difference in quality and craftsmanship. You should see our gorgeous filing cabinet.
To Mrs. Money’s point @2: I suspect that the Amish aren’t rich enough to pay cash for all their medical problems, even as a large group doing some sort of self-insurance. Chronic diseases and cancer treatments can cost thousands of dollars each month (the treatment I’m on costs the insurance company almost $5,000 every three weeks and it would cost more if I didn’t have insurance). Those kind of situations can only be afforded if there is a large pool providing funds that are reinvested at high enough returns to support the payments.
When one is healthy, it is easy to think that health is something that can be somehow accommodated on a cash basis (or perhaps, as a Nevada candidate has been suggesting, via bartering with the doctor!). But when chronic or serious problems occur, things change. And it’s not just “end-of-life” care that is expensive; it’s things like a serious heart problems, or an aneurysm or even a car accident with multiple injuries… There are many things that can’t be avoided even with the best self-care and good health habits. My treatments have kept me feeling completely “normal” for more than a year now, and have kept others feeling healthy and fully functioning for 8, 10, even 17 years so far. Even though my spouse and I have saved consistently throughout our working lives, and still live frugally, we could not afford my illness without insurance.
Interesting. I took the train to California from NJ and met a young Amish couple on their way to Mexico for the husband’s back surgery. Sounded like this was not unusual in their community.
Yes, the Amish do contribute to their own health insurance plan – handled by an experienced investor – and when needed – they negotiate with the medical facility for a discount as much as 50% because they pay cash within 30 days – this means a lot to the facility and are willing to make a deal like that.
End of Life is usually at their homes – not in a nursing home or hospice – however, not to say in some cases they might use such a facility.
Unlike some “English” think – the Amish do use doctors and medical facilities when needed. But they live a “healthy lifestyle” and are perhaps healthy overall than the general population.
Unfortunately, they also suffer from certain conditions and diseases related only to their heritage (mainly European).
For the purposes of the post I have tried to accentuate a few positive aspects of Amish culture here, but Amish have ‘warts’ as well, which they’d be quick to point out.
You make a good point on education, and some Amish do leave for this very reason. A formal education limited to 8th grade would prevent any of the occupations you mentioned being pursued by an Amish person.
At the same time the values system is a bit different as well. We tend to perceive formal education as a high value–which I consider it to be–though Amish often derive satisfaction from other roles and do not necessarily perceive formal education in the same way we might. At the same time they appreciate the fact that they benefit from formally educated outsiders (doctors, etc).
And of course there are definitely many highly intelligent Amish people, who might funnel talents into other areas such as entrepreneurship or innovation, for instance.
I know one individual who has incredible technical prowess in designing machinery, for example. In another life he might have been a certified mechanical engineer. But he derives a lot of satisfaction from what he is doing now as a very effective chief equipment designer at a sizable business, with his own part time business on the side.
The Amish also seek education in non-formal channels. This often means a hands-on, learn as you go approach, learning from mentors, and other means.
Thanks for bringing this up!
Funny that you posted this right after your post about buying a new computer 🙂
Fantastic post, thank you. Amazing how I saw it in my feed the day after I have put my iPod up on eBay (too many gizmos.)
“Much more common among Amish would be taking advantage of bank credit for a home mortgage or to fund a business. Not only does this help one reach life and business goals, but when used properly, it can even be a motivator. Having something to pay back gets you out of bed and gets you moving, as an Amishman once explained to me. So the right type of debt, Amish realize, can be healthy.”
I’m not so sure I agree with this. If you have to feel motivated to get out of bed and work in the morning to repay your debt, you’re probably in the wrong business. Drop it and go after your passion, the one that keeps you up late at night, the one that you can’t wait to get up in the morning and get after. Debt should not be used as a motivator. Bad recipe.
Hi Dustin, fair enough. I definitely agree with your point on passion. I would clarify by saying that debt is not the ‘main’ motivator, but ‘a’ motivator–most Amish I speak to are passionate–some highly so–about their chosen field, whether it be furniture making, construction, etc.
But I don’t think it can be denied that knowing you have a monthly payment to make can help to get you moving.
interesting article. I’m sort of a tech geek nerd, but all my other tech geek friends make fun of me because I run an old dell laptop, a hand me down desktop at home and an old cell phone. my motto is if it aint broke, dont spend money to replace it. I’ve done some minor upgrades with RAM and such, but keep the costs down by using what I have.
Dustin, although I agree that debt isn’t the best motivator in my book, not everyone has a passion that pays.
I go to work to get my paycheck. Period. I love blogging, but it takes a LOOOOOONG time for that to pay well enough to replace a salary. I also love volunteering, which of course pays nothing.
If that Amish dude needs debt to get out of bed, I’m not going to judge.
I guess my point in all of this is to simply avoid the debt in the first place. You shouldn’t feel the need to have to go to work so you can simply live. Having recently paid $21,000 of debt off (I have absolutely no debt), I find it amazing that we would encourage people to go into debt to use it as a motivator to go to work. It just doesn’t make sense in my mind. If that suits you and that’s how you want to live, I’m fine with that too.
Last year JD posted a link to a fascinating article about Amish hackers (you can use the GRS search function to find it). The typing of “hacking” described in the article provides a creative outlet for Amish folks who are mechanically/engineering-ly inclined, but who choose to remain in the Amish community rather than pursue higher education.
Huh! Interesting. Learned more about the Amish this morning than I ever have…
I see an awful lot about how people should follow their “passion” in a career and I think it’s mostly bunk. People who follow their “passion” all too often end up supported by other people. In fact, this is so common that I’d love to see one of J.D.’s thoughtful posts on it.
But back to the main topic: The Amish lifestyle sounds all bucolic and lovely, until you remember that buying in means buying into living according to a religious dogma that I, for one, wouldn’t tolerate for a minute.
And let’s not assume that their ethic of “community” extends beyond the boundaries of their own settlements. It very well might, but the fact that they remain so strictly segregated says a lot.
So sure, we can look at certain aspects of their system and say, these are good points to apply here on the outside; but these lessons are not unique to the Amish.
Hi Dustin I would agree not to take on debt if you don’t have to, depending on the circumstances of course. But in some cases debt can make things happen where they otherwise wouldn’t (owning a home, starting a business). Many Amish do try to avoid debt totally though, by starting a business slowly, but sometimes it is a necessity.
The point I was making was definitely not “encouraging people to go into debt as a motivator to go to work”.
It was rather that some Amish see the motivation you would have to pay it off as a secondary “benefit”, if you want to call it that–but the main point being that debt is not bad if used wisely–as a tool to own a home or build a business.
Nastia I hear you on gizmos! People sometimes laugh at my ancient Nokia cellphone. But, a) it still works and b) it has big buttons–two big pluses for me! Just have never felt the need to upgrade, though it might be coming soon if the thing ever conks out.
Those 10 minute breaks are where I really struggle. It is so easy to get sidetracked on other things, especially when you’re working online. There are numerous programs out there to shut off access to the internet. One that I’ve tried out is Freedom (http://macfreedom.com/). It allows you to disable the internet for up to 8 hours at a time, completely removing it as a distraction.
The real take-home lesson from this blog post is that one should live according to one’s own values. Far too often we say that we would like to live a less hectic life, more family time and more physical exercise but then do not implement it in real life.
Life is what we make of it. We should search for what kind of life we would want and work towards it. Of course, there would be a lot of course corrections but it would life on our own terms (not what our parents, friends, co-workers, the Joneses etc think).
Chacha I think I know what you mean, ie taking passion too far with no regard for practicality, and would like to hear what JD has to say too. But I personally wouldn’t want to discount passion too quickly. You have to be realistic about things like making an income, of course. And a passion may manifest itself on the side while you do something else to pay the bills, or in other ways within an income-generating career. Just my two cents.
You make a good point that these lessons are not unique to the Amish, and that’s one I try to emphasize. It’s not revolutionary stuff. There are some benefits as well as advantages of being in the community, and it’s not for everyone, which is why a relative handful of people have ever successfully joined the Amish (I could never do it!). Though you might be surprised at how Amish are tied into the outside world. In fact most Amish live neither the bucolic nor the closed lives we sometimes see them portrayed as having.
If you have to feel motivated to get out of bed and work in the morning to repay your debt, you’re probably in the wrong business. Drop it and go after your passion, the one that keeps you up late at night, the one that you can’t wait to get up in the morning and get after. Debt should not be used as a motivator. Bad recipe. Having recently paid $21,000 of debt off (I have absolutely no debt), I find it amazing that we would encourage people to go into debt to use it as a motivator to go to work. It just doesn’t make sense in my mind.”
<<I’m SO glad you brought this up Dustin! We live in a country that encourages debt as a good thing then judges Greece for being in crisis over uncontrollable debt, criticizes those who took out home loans that they couldn’t afford, turns their backs on a celebrity who comes out and acknowledge their personal debt crisis and even more amazing of all – a country that forgets OUR OWN deficit & debt levels are approaching unsustainability.
The point is, the term “good debt” is a fallacy. Debt was meant to make the borrower a slave to the lender, simple as that.So voluntarily taking debt on is like running into a gun fight with a knife. Why short change yourself for a low possibility of winning..just to say you can?
Make no mistake -sure there are those who manage to thrive and maintain very low levels of debt and high net worths but if you ask any of these people,(ie. Warren Buffett) they’ll also quickly point out to you that they are aware the risk reward for playing such games is and always has been extremely low. So you can get the new 3 series bmw before everyone else because you refuse to work for it? I’ll pass. Thats disrespect to those who are actually in debt because of medical issues beyond their control or other catastrophic consequences.
For instance- Dustin, you mentioned you paid off over $21 in debt recently. If you mind sharing, how much of that debt was spent on things you absolutely MUST have had at that specific time of purchase?
Erik and Chacha– Totally agreed. A lot of my friends have been reading YMoYL recently (we’re all in the mid 30s career crisis stage) and one of the big things they say jumps out at them is how it talks about how a job is a way to make money, and that is all it is. Your vocation can be aligned with that or it cannot be aligned with that.
As an economist, the idea of all or nothing is really foreign… of course you should balance how much you like a job with how well it pays and fits into your life in other ways and alternative ways to pursue said passion. Sometimes the passion is more important, sometimes security and a comfortable lifestyle is… we all have different utility functions that we’re maximizing (or satisificing if you want more difficult math modeling but easier decision making) over.
I would love to see a thoughtful discussion from JD on those topics as well. My money is on him talking about balance and individual differences since that seems to fit in with the direct financial advice on GRS. But it would be interesting to see and I’m sure very thought provoking.
I am with Tom on this one….I help out with a dog rescue and I am sorry to say that the Amish are some of the worst puppy mill offenders out there 🙁
@thisiswhyubroke
I would say 18k of the 21k of debt was consumer debt. 3k was for going to school. Debt is not a tool. You find that the only people telling you that it is are usually the ones benefiting from you going into debt.
I heard the Amish are supposed to be particularly cruel toward animals.
Then again we have kill shelters for homeless pets, Hunington Life Sciences which has tortured dogs, NASA which is shooting chimps up into space, the US Military which has been using dogs and pigs for target practice and last but not least our factory farms ( google on “Earthlings” )
How can you ignore the fact that the single most profitable business enterprise of the Amish is Puppy Mills? These people exploit and torture dogs for profit, and I think it’s irresponsible of this author to write an article in praise of the Amish- and even more irresponsible for GRS to publish it!
Is GRS saying that making money at any cost is ok?
@Babs (#31)
Do you think that Get Rich Slowly is saying that making money at any cost is okay? Do you think that Get Rich Slowly is condoning puppy mills? Do you think that praising the Amish for certain traits means that we have to praise them for all traits? Do you think that I agree with everything every guest author writes? (Hint: I don’t.)
I know I shouldn’t respond, but your comment pushed my buttons. Life is complex. People and issues are complex. It’s not as simple as Amish == Puppy Mills. Nothing is that simple.
If you want to base your worldview on these sorts of black-and-white mono-issue judgments, then go ahead. But don’t expect everyone else to, and don’t expect this blog to. I believe the world is filled with nuance and subtlety. I’m not a fan of puppy mills, but there’s far far more to the Amish than that.
I haven’t heard that the Amish were the worst with the puppy mills. Could someone point me to reliable data on that?
Copied from a New York Post article: “Inside the picturesque barns and wooden fences of Amish country, pedigree puppies are bred by the tens of thousands, many living in a hellish world of filthy, crowded cages. They are ‘puppy mill’ puppies, and they bring in $4 million a year for the 100 Amish and Mennonite farmers who supply boutique dog-shop markets, including at least two New York dealers, the ASPCA says. ‘It’s not just some cottage industry by people who sell bread-and-butter pickles by the roadside,’ said Roger Caras, ASPCA executive director. The farmers sell 20,000 puppies a year to wholesalers for an average $223 a pup, government records show. And it’s making some of these quaint farmers quite rich. U.S. Department of Agriculture documents show that one farmer in the town of Blue Ball sold 1,293 puppies last year for an estimated $290,000 though federal inspectors have cited his farm for numerous violations since 1992 including overcrowded cages and inadequate sanitation, pest control, feeding and watering of animals. ‘Then these sickly, genetic nightmares are delivered to the upscale pet shops,’ Caras said. ‘They given them a bath and blow dry them and fluff them up and pray they don’t die before they’re sold,’ for $1,000 or more each.”
1.Like most people, I love dogs, and unethical breeders are a bad thing.
2.The vast majority of Amish are not dog breeders. I’m also not certain where you are getting the information that this is the “most profitable business enterprise”. I’m fairly certain that would be furniture.
3.Amish I’ve spoken with condemn the unethical breeders who run operations where dogs suffer. As you might imagine, conditions vary between breeders.
4.The majority of dog breeders in America are non-Amish. Amish tend to be an easier target, however. One reason is because they are a clustered, easily-identifiable group and tend to avoid media, court, and other outlets where they might defend themselves.
5.I also wonder, what exactly is a ‘puppy mill’. Is it any pet breeder, or just one that houses dogs in horrible conditions, or…I think this is a valid question in order to know what we are talking about because I’ve seen some broad brush strokes on this issue before.
6.Dogs as animals are afforded a higher place on the animal ‘totem pole’ in our society. They are our companions and for some, best friends. They also tend to evoke a very strong emotional reaction for this reason. Amish tend to see an animal as an animal and a human as a human. I’m not saying this is the ‘right’ way by many people’s standards to look at it, but there is an inherent cultural difference.
7.For that reason, it’s probably a good idea that many Amish breeders are getting out of the breeding business, even though they may be running completely legitimate operations. Amish I’ve spoken with tend to agree.
8.Painting Amish as a group as evil based on some highly-publicized though deplorable cases, is maybe not the best approach.
Interesting article, especially as it relates to the cost of keeping up with technology and the value of being conservative with one’s finances.
I found the following NY Times article interesting: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/08/business/smallbusiness/08sbiz.html?pagewanted=2. Especially the following:
Professor Kraybill said … that he knew of no business that had closed in the last six months. “I doubt if many will,” he said, because “the church usually comes in and takes over failing businesses before they fail.”
Not so different from what the secular world has been doing with “too big to fail” companies, eh?
technology is good in a sense that it makes things easier and convenient for us, but when we depend on them fir everything, I think it can backfire and make us even lazier
Or rather, “too small to fail!” 🙂 Yes it is interesting, I mention that practice in my book, the Amish call it ‘trusteeship’. It does happen occasionally but it’s fairly rare. Typically 3 experienced people are selected to help guide a business in a mentor-like way.
great post, always interesting to see how different cultures handle money, as this is something that is not often covered. i knew they were frugal, and this just shows that they dont take it to the extreme. the fact that the success rate is 90% for business is astounding, and i dont think that is entirely due to their use of credit. i think they are raised differently, work harder, and are less drastic in their decision making. maybe they just take more time to make decisions in their slower lifestyle, something all of us could probably use a little more of.
Preferred Financial Services
Money Green Live @36
I have been reading some doomsday people lately fretting over what would happen if we got a neutron shower, or terrorists took out a major electrical supply, etc. I don’t worry about being ‘too dependent on my laptop’. But while I think some of their fears are far fetched,I do worry about what I would do for water if our electricity went out for an extended period of time since I’m on a well. From this perspective I think we have taken a huge risk as society being dependent on people we don’t know working in a system we don’t understand to provide basic necessities like food, water, sewage, heat, etc.
Stephen @38
I would also say they are less likely to have the higher levels of risk that many people take on to START the business in the first place. I think the 90% success rate isn’t as much about brains, community, working hard, or anything else as much as a culture that is much more risk adverse than most of society.
Hi Erik,
DH/we are looking at buying a franchise, and the failure rates of the best-run franchisors run less than 10% as well — the mentoring and buying back failures sounds like a similar business model to what you describe for the Amish. The franchisors we’re talking to are very supportive and very fiscally conservative.
It’s fun to find how successful patterns propagate, even among different cultures.
Hello Erik!
I come from Lancaster County, PA, and grew up on a dairy farm. No…I am not Amish (everyone always asks me that), but my family has close ties to them. In fact, my father is employed as a driver for the amish when they have to go to doctor’s appointments, or take trips to Montana, or visit family members in Indiana–he loves his job.
Also, I wrote a Best of Money Carnival-winning post called Amish Finances you might wish to check out (on my website, under “Best of Frugal Confessions”). It was featured here on Get Rich Slowly.
Thanks for sharing!
I don’t want to generalize all Amish but some have good businesses but at the expense of animals. I am talking about Puppy Mills. I live in Ohio and there is an animal rescue group that regularly rescue dogs from thei puppy mills. They use and abuse these dogs to make their money and then discard them as if garbage. I believe there was even a Dateline special on this. So if being “a good business person” means not being humane I would not want any part of it.
My neighbors are Amish. They do what it takes to keep their community going. Last year one of the guys became an E bay power seller selling little wooden goods they make. This year they are cutting oak and shipping off to another Amish colony. They would like to get beck to making furniture.
Give me technology anyday. Have you ever tried washing out menstrual rags? I have and it isnt fun.
“How can you ignore the fact that the single most profitable business enterprise of the Amish is Puppy Mills? These people exploit and torture dogs for profit, and I think it’s irresponsible of this author to write an article in praise of the Amish- and even more irresponsible for GRS to publish it!”
This is easily the most idiotic comment that I’ve seen in almost three years of reading GRS.
I’m very familiar with the PA Amish as I live very close and have dealt with and been around them my whole life. And the most profitable business enterprises of the Amish would be tobacco and furniture (although the furniture part is dwindling to things like selling carved trinkets on eBay and moving into things like construction), not puppy mills.
Just because a few Amish have chosen to run unethical operations that are despicable does not mean that you should paint the other 99% into that same corner of unethical sleaze.
If you would actually talk to real Amish people, you find that while their views on animals are not the same that most Englishmen have, they are mostly disgusted with the stigma that the puppy mill “industry” has spread on their culture as a whole.
They are no different than any society anywhere. You have 99% of the people doing what they are supposed to and the 1% who sully and stain the other 99%.
There is no exploiting of anything except your obvious ignorance and hatred towards these people.
My sister rents from an amish person.
They bring their tools and freezer to her garage and plug it in for free
and basically use her modern day stuff.
Then they charge exhorbitant rent and refuse to repair anything on the house. I believe a lot of it is they are simply too ignorant to understand electric and plumbing.
They DO understand getting top dollar in rent though!
I have lived in Lancaster County most of my 60 years and I can say
nearly all the so-called ‘religious’ beliefs of the amish are simply ways they can take advantage of the system we have in place today.
From not paying road taxes and destroying our roads with steel wheels and horseshoes to using the hospitals when they get sick for free. They pick and choose which laws they want to follow as per cost. I come from a Mennonite background and I can tell you it’s all about the MONEY for the amish and the Mennonites. Tight with a dollar and totally devoid of compassion or human understanding towards others is part of their culture.
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#31 @Barb
I think restraint is called for as JD and the author probably, like most people aren’t even aware of the issues.
#34 @Erik
Huge numbers of completely wonderful companion animals are killed every year simply because there are not enough homes for them. There is a massive pet overpopulation problem. Any animal breeding is unethical breeding these days.
#46 @beforewisdom
Definitely, that is a good point. I am far from an expert on the dog breeding issue in general but have read reports on how many dogs are killed, and one thing that surprised me was that some dogs meet their end in shelters as well. But I think that’s a separate, much larger issue outside of the question of the Amish involvement in the industry.
Another issue would be the ethics of breeding designer dogs or those breeds which have developed inherent health problems by selective breeding over time. I’m personally not a big fan of that but I understand there is a huge consumer demand that drives it.
#40 @TosaJen
That is neat to hear that you are seeing some similarities there. It is an interesting model.
#41 @ Amanda
Hi Amanda, thanks for letting me know about your article! It’s funny but it sounded familiar and when I found it I realized I had come across it already, a few months ago. Great article, you really did a nice job.
Your comment on Amish taxi drivers was interesting too–Amish seem to often develop close relationships with their drivers, as you’d expect when spending enough time in the car.
One thing I noticed though: they all tend to drive fast (at least faster than me!) Giving a friend’s son a ride home from the PA Dutch market recently, we were passed by 3 or 4 vans loaded with Amish within about 5 minutes of leaving. Or maybe I just drive too slow?
A good point about using the things other people normally toss: I also use coffee grounds as a fertilizer for my house plants. And shopping bags as garbage bags. And an old tooth brush to clean my kitchen cabinets. So many items in our household are actually reusable, not only we save by not buying new ones to replace them, we also contribute less to the crazy amount of garbage our civilization produces on a daily basis.
Sorry for the long post, I’ve got a lot to say!
First of all, if anyone is interested in learning more about the Amish, I recommend reading Plain Secrets by Joe Mackall, which is a great book that neither idolizes or condemns Amish life, just tells it how it is.
Amish sects vary wildly, even within individual counties. I live in a very conservative Amish area in Ohio…the buggies with windshields that you see on TV? Not here. You won’t even see the orange slow vehicle signs on their buggies. Don’t be quick to lump all the Amish together, because they are very different.
I have never, ever heard of an Amish puppy mill. In my experience, the Amish don’t baby their animals…it is a farm community after all, and the animals work for their keep…but at least in my area you don’t hear about Amish animal cruelty cases either. Animals are used for work or for food, but it doesn’t benefit anyone to be cruel to them.
As far as money…the Amish tend to be loaded because they keep their expenses down and they work their fingers to the bone. I did have to deny a home equity loan to an Amishman because the property did not meet our bank’s collateral standards for equity loans. (He had wanted to build a greenhouse). Since his property did not have running water or electricity, underwriting wouldn’t approve the loan. So while the Amish save on property taxes by essentially living on “undeveloped” property, they sometimes have trouble getting financing if they need it. Don’t get me started about opening bank accounts for people without tax ID numbers or any photo ID! Thankfully, most of the younger Amish folks are starting to realize that ID and social security numbers are a necessity.
Regarding self insurance…a good Amish friend of mine was in a bad car accident last year. He works construction, and his crew hired a driver to take them to the job site and back home. Their van was hit by a kid running a stop sign, and of course, the kid did not have insurance. As a result of the car accident, my friend’s son had a broken back, meaning he couldn’t do construction or farm work for well over a year. My friend paid most of his son’s medical bills out of pocket, to the tune of $25,000. If he couldn’t have paid the medical bills, the Amish church would have.
I think the important thing to remember about the Amish is that there are good folks and bad folks, just like in our community. There are some I am happy to be friends with and others I don’t like at all. You can’t judge a community as a whole…you must decide on an individual basis.
Debt is indeed a tool, if used wisely as used poorly it is very dangerous. It can make you both rich and poor depending on how you use it and your level of financial intelligence.
Go the Amish
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/7.01/amish_pr.html
may also be of interest to people reading this post.
I live near Amish in Eastern Indiana. I do know of at least one Amish family that filed bankruptcy and had his farm and land auctioned off. (I went to that auction) They got into too much debt. Another Amish family has had so many business failures that they may too have to file bankruptcy. So it does happen. In Eastern Indiana, Amish befriend their modern neighbors and pay them for modern conveniences , such as driving them in their vehicles to Aldi’s or having an electric freezer in the neighbors basement or garage. They cover up their modern phones by having them in outhouses, and actually do have modern plumbing, run by a generator, in their homes. The Amish around here can have a lot of the “modern” things, just not on their own property where the “outside” world can see.
You people have no clue. I lived among the Amish for 8 years. I drove them everywhere they needed to go. They are nothing but a glorified government sanctioned cult. Did you know at their speciality shops the have two prices for their goods? A much higher price for YANKEES and a lower price for their own kind. They laugh at the stupid Yankees and told me if I want to sell my crafts put Amish made on it…thats what sells. They put their children to work at 14, when they complete school at 14 with their certificate of completion they are handed a work permit. Until they reach the age of 20 and a half they HAVE to give their parents their paychecks. That is one of the biggest reasons the have so much money, thet spit
The Amish are exempted from paying Social Security. They may not collect but they don’t have to pay either. I am self employed and I have to pay Social Security for myself and from the employer’s side too. I’m not exempted. There was an article in Wall Street Journal about intermarriage among Amish communities and this has created genetic defects in their children. Many Amish don’t believe in carrying insurance and these genetic defects are carrying a high medical cost that many Amish are having difficulty paying for with cash (even when the community pools it’s resources) and they are applying for charity care with hospitals that treat them even though they have businesses and own farm property that is valuable. According to the article, they don’t feel that they should have full liability for their medical costs even though they chose not to carry insurance.
my computer is 500mhz
I am in UK we are a multicultural society with all sorts and nationalities and that is all good, but thank goodness we don’t have to put up with Amish and their cruelty to animals. I don’t think we would tolerate it.
I have been driving and working with Amish for a while now and I love it. They treat me like family and welcome me in there home for lunch every day. I happy with my career choice. I have learned alot from them but still don’t understand there language tho. The Amish are truely family to me, they took me under there wing and have took good care of me.
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