Two months ago today, I asked my wife for a divorce.
I won’t be writing about the personal aspects of the divorce at Get Rich Slowly. In fact, other than some brief background at my personal site, I don’t intend to write it about it on the web at all. Kris and I are both emotional wrecks right now; the wounds are fresh and raw for both of us.
That said, I can no longer avoid sharing the truth with GRS readers. Too many of my financial decisions — present and future — are tied to the divorce. I’m hunting for health insurance, for instance, and I’ll have to re-evaluate my asset allocation. And ten days ago, I moved to a new apartment.
Living Small
For the past eight years, Kris and I have lived in an 1800-square-foot house on three-fifths of an acre. The place also includes a large garage, a workshop, and a couple of out-buildings. Plus, I’ve been leasing an office up the street. Despite working to reduce clutter in my life, I have a lot of Stuff. I’ve written a lot about wanting to simplify, about wanting to live in a smaller space, but I’ve been reluctant to take the necessary action.
Now, though, I’m moving. And because I’m moving, I feel obligated to practice what I preach. While part of me wants to find another house (Kris is keeping ours), I know it’s better to find a smaller space and to adjust my life to fit it. Thus, I’ve been looking to see how some of my friends manage to live not-so-big lives.
For instance, last fall Tammy — who writes about simplicity at Rowdy Kittens (and who shared a GRS reader story about the benefits of biking) — moved into a tiny house. The entire home is only 130 square feet! She and her husband had me over for dinner recently, and I shot some video of the space:
I loved Tammy and Logan’s tiny house. The floor plan is well-designed and functional. Still, I’m not ready to live that small just yet.
Instead, I opted to rent an apartment.
The Apartment
While most folks were spending Thanksgiving week, well, giving thanks, I was hunting for apartments. Some might consider going from house to apartment a step backward. I don’t mind. In fact, as I’ve mentioned before, I actually believe renting can be a great choice for the right person. In this case, I think I’m the right person.
While searching for a place to live, I tried to take a lot of things into account. Price was important, obviously, but so was the age of the place, the layout, and, especially, the location. Over the past five years, I’ve come to place a premium on walkable neighborhoods, and I know I wanted an apartment with a high walk score.
I found a place I liked in a good location near downtown Portland — the biggest drawback is that it’s right next to a donut shop (danger! danger!) — and signed a lease. But then I started to worry that I was paying too much. By comparing notes with other people, I’ve since decided that while I’m not getting a bargain, my rent is reasonable.
Best of all, the apartment has a walk score of 88 (very walkable) and a transit score of 73 (excellent transit). And because I’m an avid walker, I can reach neighborhoods that the Walk Score app doesn’t consider. (As a comparison, our house has a walk score of 49, meaning car-dependent, and a transit score of 32, which means it has some transit.)
I’ve been in my new place for ten days now, and I like it — but it doesn’t feel like home. Still, I’m trying to make the most of these 705 square feet. Instead of just talking about how much I want to cut back on clutter, I’ve been faced with tough decisions every day. Which books do I keep? Which comics? How many pairs of shoes? How many jackets? Do I really need (or want) my records and record player?
By making judicious choices (and with the help of some new furniture from Ikea), I think I’ve reached a good balance. My new place contains the things I need — but it’s not filled with a lot of clutter and junk. It’s my hope that this will continue for the foreseeable future.
Fear of the Future
Now that I have a place to live — and now that I’m mostly unpacked — there are other problems to tackle as a result of the divorce.
For one, how do I handle health insurance? For eighteen years, I’ve been on Kris’ policy. Not anymore. After the divorce is final, I have only a few weeks (or maybe even just a few days) before my coverage with her carrier lapses. I’m the sort of guy who might risk going without health insurance for a few months or years, but Kris won’t have it. “We are not getting a divorce until you can prove to me that you have health insurance,” she told me the other day.
Meanwhile, what do I do about my office? Does it make sense to continue to rent that space? Should I find someplace closer? More importantly, what about day-to-day stuff like laundry and groceries. Obviously, I’m capable of handling these chores on my own, but due to the division of labor within our marriage, I’ve always relied on Kris to handle most of these chores. Now I’m going to have to budget for food, plan meals, and buy supplies on my own.
Kris has lots of questions about the future too. She’s still in the house, after all. How will she handle the yard work? Who’s going to take care of her car? And so on. But she too is capable of handling these things on her own. Besides, we both agree that figuring out the chores is inconsequential to figuring out the big stuff, the emotional stuff.
For now, Kris and I are still in constant contact. We had dinner Friday night, I drove by the house yesterday, and we’ll have dinner together tomorrow night. Plus, we still plan to share a vacation to Argentina in a few weeks. If one of us gets into trouble, the other will be there to help. Our marriage may be ending, but our friendship isn’t.
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Okay, I havent read these comments but I want to say something here that bothers me tremendously.
JD, you are looking at this from a mans perspective. There isnt a woman around that wants to be all friendly with the man who just told her she doesnt fit in his new plan for the future. You are doing this for you.
Now listen to me on this one thing; every time you come around Kris is going to be trying to hide the hurt. She will be silently begging you for a hug and words of assurance that this is all a bad dream. Sure she is worried about your health insurance. The longer you are on her insurance the more normal it all feels.
You are hanging around for you, not her, because if she had her way you would be there every day to come home to. She wants you in her bed and your feet under her table. You, on the other hand, have somehow decided you have outgrown this marriage. BUT.. the little boy in you isn’t really ready to leave the girl you married in your youth, the woman you loved in middle age. She has been your comfort in times of distress, your pillow when your tired and need to rest, your music when your hearts without a song, the one real thing in a harsh world of pretend and greed..Kris has been all of this to you and the deep part of your soul is still reaching out to her. If you really want a divorce be a big boy and do this on your own without dragging her along behind. If you can’t bear to do this alone then for heavens sake, go back home where you belong! Kris will be waiting for you.
I can tell you one thing; what’s happening to you guys has made me take a new look at my marriage. Last night it was snowing. Greg came through the door exhausted from work and the commute. We spent the evening cuddled on the couch by the fire…content in knowing that whatever storm there is outside, in our home there is peace, in each others arms there is 25 years of contentment and there in that one word lies your problem. Contentment! There isnt anything better out there. You just got discontented. And no, dont be presumptious and say that this is a best for both you and Kris. It’s best for selfish you and that’s it!
Man, I love you JD, I really do, but this is beyond understanding. You’ve lost your Dad, your mother isnt in a position to be there for you, and now you cut Kris out. Whatever is wrong with you? You are going to need her in the future and you know that. That is why you are hanging on.
It’s like the little boy that sticks his unwanted Teddy bear on a shelf. He cant bear to part with him because he’s so much of his past, but he really doesnt want him in the present, so instead of giving him up altogether he puts him on a shelf so he can use him now and again. Kris is not a toy or a thing! You can’t do that to her. She’s either a vital, integral part of your life or she isn’t. Let her go or take her back. The twighlight zone is bad for her regardless of how you want to sugar coat it as a good for both of you.
Oh boy, I have to quit. Just go home JD. Go home.
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Best post ever.
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Yes. Very good post.
Either keep her close in your heart as your wife or detach and let her go.
And remember…wherever you go, there you are.
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All the best to you (and to her) going forward. Life doesn’t always go as we expect it to, but hopefully you will be happy and thrive going forward.
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Hey,
Blog Hijack – I have two younger sisters, one 19 and the other 22. They very little experience with personal finance and I want to help them on their way without coming off like I’m lecturing them. Do you have any old posts that lays out the foundational steps that I can email to them to get their feet wet and open lines of discussions between me and them. My youngest sister just opened her first savings and checking account and is looking into credit cards so I need something down to the basics but informative.
Sorry about the hijack, but there were sooo many comments to this post, I thought I could get more feed back here from other commentors on other resources/blog articles I could send them.
Thanks!
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If you can manage it, probably the best thing to do is get them to read a book. Ramit Sethi’s IWTYTBR is great for young’uns, and Suze’s Money Book for Young, fab and broke is pretty good, too.
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Yea, I think it would be helpful if there was a tab for beginners with some resources to start. I actually posted the same hijack on 20somethingfinance.com and he didnt have any resources for beginngers either…
To Jane : My sisters aren’t the type to just start reading a book on personal finance because someone recommened it to them. Well, unless the Kardashians were on it, but that’s a whole other can of worms. I thought an article would be a better start since it would be shorter and to the point and maybe could get them interested. Any other suggestions?
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This is for Kris: I was in a similar situation about 10 years ago (also was my husband who initiated the divorce) – things will get so much better than they are now! A few years later I am with an amazing man who is a much better fit for me. The time between the two really serious relationships helped me grow too, I felt like more of a complete independent person going into my current relationship.
For now I suggest distance from him, moving away from where you both lived together, and indulging in the little things you have always wanted to do, but felt bad about. Please spoil yourself!
Also – think very carefully about taking him back if he comes asking for that in 6-18 months time, I think this only works where the split was due to a specific and traumatic event. Someone who drifts off once will most likely drift off again – they are coming back to you because change failed for them this time and you are “safe and familiar”, and they WILL try again later. What they really need is a successful ending to trying again with a different person. Love means letting go sometimes.
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My condolences to both you.
I agree with the comments about the house and especially travel differences foreshadowing this. (I do NOT agree with those who said the separate accounts had anything to do with it, even though I personally have joint accounts with my spouse). I have never known anyone who traveled that much alone, and stayed married. Still, “Do what works for you.” Who am I to judge?
On the other hand, compromise and concessions are part and parcel of marriage. I have heard that 75% of marital disagreements are never resolved. There is disagreement in every relationship; long term marriages, I think, tend to learn to live with the differences.
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Congrats on being able to keep things friendly with your wife. I’m going through the same process (moved out in late 2010) and we’ve also stayed friends while we finalize the divorce. Hope everything works out for both of you.
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J.D., I am so sorry that you and Kris are going through this.Divorces and breakups suck. I initiated the breakup of a seven-year relationship with a man I thought I would marry. He was my best friend before we became romantically involved and he still is. I liked your statement about divorcing the marriage, not the friendship. To those who criticize from their place of fear and judgement, how nice that you are so sure about what’s right not only for you but for everyone else. How nice that you knew exactly what you wanted from life when you were 22 and got to travel and have fun experiences before settling down to the Very Serious Business of Adult Life where no one is allowed to make mistakes or change their mind about what they want. I am 38. What I thought I wanted when I was 28 was very different than what I want now. I hope some of the more critical younger readers will grow more nuanced in their opinions as they gain life experience. Take care J.D. I enjoy your blog very much.
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When I read the news on your personal site, J.D., I was legitimately sad. As many people here have mentioned, although we do not know you, it felt as if the news came from a friend, and it came as both a shock and a blow (though, as others have pointed out, there have been small hints with regard to the traveling, so certainly it’s not as shocking as it could have been).
I think this is part of why some people are taking this so personally.
From my own point of view, as a 28-year-old who is hopefully soon to be engaged, it triggers a base fear. What if, someday, my husband asks me for a divorce? Different people can feel very differently about what the appropriate amount of effort to put in to save a marriage may be. And so I, unfortunately, feel a sense of betrayal that I have no right to blame you for.
Part of why this is coming as such a shock, despite the hints, is because for the most part, you have portrayed Kris so positively in your blog and displayed no actual conflict. Sure, the traveling seemed like a problem, but it seemed like a problem that the two of you were working to find a way to resolve. There was no mention of marital counseling or of conflict resolution.
As a reader, it is hard to tell if that is because there WAS no marital counseling or if it was just kept private. Likewise, whatever the conflict may be, there is no way for us to judge whether it is resolvable or not from your post. The lack of information leads one to believe that the conflict was maybe resolvable, but of course from the outside everyone’s relationship seems fixable until you know the details. There ARE some conflicts that no amount of counseling can fix.
So people are trying to understand how to feel. They feel sad, and maybe even a bit betrayed, because of how much of yourself you have shared on this blog in the past. It’s easier to be angry and place blame, particularly when the narrative being given here allows for it so easily (e.g. no mention of marital counseling, the clear statement that the divorce is your choice and not Kris’s). But the truth is, we don’t know you. We don’t know your life. We don’t know the conflict you and Kris have been having. And though you have invited us into your lives and minds from time to time on this blog, that doesn’t mean you owe us the whole story.
So, with that said: I may or may not agree with your decisions, given the story you have chosen to present here, but regardless I sincerely hope that everything works out for the best for both you and Kris, no matter what the story was or turns out to be.
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My new husband bought me a book for Christmas called “For Better: The Science of a Good Marriage” that the author, Tara Parker-Pope, wrote after her own marriage ended in an attempt to figure out what had really happened and also to gain insight on any future relationships she might have. She doesn’t dis her ex and the writing manages to boil down the science in a way that is very readable. You and Kris might find some good insights in there to understand what went on between you and move on (whether to another relationship or to being on your own). I highly recommend it.
FWIW, I also wasn’t surprised by this considering some of the changes JD has been making (and wanting) in his life, but agree with those who say that we shouldn’t decide that we aren’t going to pursue opportunities for personal growth because it might change our personal relationships. That’s part of personal growth.
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I’m sorry to hear this news, but I wanted to commend you on the way that you’re using this as a teaching tool for your readers. It’s a brave and thoughtful thing to do. Thank you.
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Good luck to you both. It is a scary thing to do, hurting a loved one and facing so much judgment, but I think better than the path of least resistance which might ultimately lead to a life of quiet desperation and unwanted hopes that your spouse cheats on you or worse, dies, so you can get out without the harshness of others’ opinions.
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I find it disturbing that you are not permitted to reveal who/what owns the blog now.
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I don’t know why he wouldn’t be permitted to say because legalese at the bottom of the page requires it.
http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/termsofservice/
Google the name of the company and voilà
http://quinstreet.com/
Finding this took less than 5 seconds total.
It’s not some deep dark mystery or something.
—
PS- the company even has a wikipedia page and GRS is listed among its properties:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuinStreet
all publicly available info, no cloak & dagger
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Thanks–just wondering about lack of transparency in responses to questions in comments.
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Wow. I had NO IDEA that JD didn’t own this blog anymore.
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neither did I…but there ya go. like another post said: some of the last year’s changes now make sense…
there you have folks…the ultimate get rich slowly formula: start a blog, create an audience, get a brand, capitalize on the relationship in side contracts, sell the blog, travel to unusual and interesting destinations on proceeds.
not too shabby and not too slow, only took him what…6-7years?
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But it’s just a “coincidence” he dumps his wife after all this success.
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I’m *guessing* that JD signed a legal agreement with QuinStreet that required confidentiality about the terms of the sale. It was probably a broad confidentiality clause that basically said ‘don’t say anything’. Generally non disclosure agreements I’ve seen basically require secrecy in general and don’t spell out specifics about what you can and can’t say. Then QuinStreet elsewhere has made it public knowledge that they own the blog. But that didn’t necessarily remove the secrecy clause from the agreement JD signed in the first place. So to be safe JD would need to ask QuinSteet to know for sure if its now OK to say things to be sure. Of course now its really a moot point, you don’t have to keep a secret that the other party states publicly. But I assume JD is just making sure he does it correctly.
I assume the confidentiality clause is more of a ‘standard procedure’ thing so that people don’t know the terms of the sale such as the amount paid, etc. Clearly Quinstreet is making it public knowledge.
Honestly I bet they wanted to make the transition gradual. If JD & Quinstreet announced to the world abruptly that JD sold then the blog might have lost a flood of readers. Gradual transition gives them time to switch over things without the readers freaking out. Again just my opinion / guessing.
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I’m very sorry to hear this – it always saddens me when anyone breaks up. I’ve heard before (and witnessed) that breakups are contagious. Here’s an article with probably dubious statistics about it – http://www.newser.com/story/94753/divorce-is-contagious.html. The article talks about the likelihood of divorce increasing among friends, but I imagine the same effect would be observed between a person and someone they look up to. I wonder how many of your readers are freshly considering de-cluttering their emotional lives after reading this?
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J.D., I’d like to comment on the friendship aspect, because I’m in a similar situation right now. My husband told me he was unhappy three months ago, told me he was leaving two months ago, and moved a month ago. None of it was my choice. It was a unilateral decision on his part.
He left me with almost everything – the larger house, the furniture, the dogs – and moved back into our little rental house. He says that the separation was his choice, and he doesn’t want me to suffer for it.
We still live near each other, and we have mutual friends and activities. I maintained that I wanted us to remain friends, and that’d I’d be O.K. with our relationship transitioning to that level. I believed that this was what I wanted, and congratulated myself on how mature and brave I was for walking that high road.
As the weeks pass, however, I’m realizing that this is very difficult for me, and my motives aren’t as clear as I’d told myself they were. In my heart, I think I do want him to see, through our continuing friendship, that he’s making a colossal mistake in throwing away an eighteen-year relationship. I want him to look over at me when we’re out with friends and wonder why he straight-armed me out of our marriage. I want him to realize that he should have let me support him while he went through his introspective emotional work, that we could have remained a team and come through it stronger together. I want him to come over and see how fabulous the house looks, how great I look, how everything appears to be working out for the better. I want him to see this because I want him to want all of it back.
He was my best friend for the better part of two decades, and I thought I wanted to keep that as well. Lately, however, an underlying doubt has started to creep in. This is the same person who emotionally abandoned me and stepped almost completely out of the life we’d built together. They’re not two separate men, my best friend and the man who betrayed me by throwing up his hands and leaving when he started to feel unhappy. So, while I started off being generous and understanding, I’m now becoming resentful and angry.
I’m not presuming that any of this is the same for Kris. I just wanted to put it out there, because I thought I wanted all of the things that you and Kris are saying that she wants, and now I’m finding those wants are subtly shifting as I recognize that the motivation behind them isn’t entirely healthy.
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Add me as another reader who is no longer interested in reading this blog. Like many others have said, I’ve disliked the direction you and the blog have taken over time, as I find the lifestyle design/World Domination stuff unrelatable, self-centered, and off-putting.
Additionally, the readers don’t even know who owns the blog anymore or who really controls the content — is it still all you talking, or is it some of you and some of CitiBank, or PayPal? GetRichSlowly used to be a trustworthy, non-corporate alternative source of financial information. Maybe it is still, but how can we know?
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While I certainly will keep reading GRS, I agree with this comment. This post is the first I’ve heard that JD sold GRS.
Was there an announcement made about this that I missed? An article explaining the implications of it for GRS, plans to maintain the site’s integrity in the future, etc etc? I believe that a basic level of respect for the readers demands such a post.
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And actually, having just researched the company, I don’t see *how* this could mean anything good for GRS. (perhaps that’s why they insisted JD not be allowed to talk about the sale)
It looks like it’s basically an online marketing (ie advertising) company? Which means they want GRS… in order to make it a better place for their clients to place ads? I don’t quite understand it; the business lingo they use is gobbledegook to me.
I encourage other readers to please check it out yourselves – quinstreet.com, specifically What we do / how we do it.
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JD & Kris;
I’ve been through it too after a 30 yr. marriage, life goes on but there are a lot of adjustments to get used to. I wish you both the best and your great common sense concerning finances is a huge part of a sucessful parting. Please be patient with yourselves as you move into the new versions of your lives, the passage of time will help with all that you have to deal with.
JD, shop well and get health insurance, don’t go without it even for a short time. The cost of health care is too expensive, especially for emergencies and serious conditions which hopefully you will never have.
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it’s also sometimes nearly impossible to find insurance if your previous insurance lapsed. lapsang souchong.
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Or they can argue that you had a preexisting condition and refuse coverage for a procedure, even if you get coverage.
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Becca,
You’re right, I am uninsurable and my state-mandated BCross/BShield policy costs me $854./month w/a $2500. deductible. My insurance also increases by about $100./yr. My total monthly health care costs are well over $1200, inclusive of insurance and out-of-pocket. If JD is healthy, he should be able to find insurance that is way cheaper than mine but will be obviously more expensive than being a part of his wife’s policy plan. Paula
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HealthCare reform will not allow insurance companies to get away with that starting in 2014.
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JD,
I think many of us are sad to see the news about your divorce (especially those of us who fall more in line with Kris financially of dealing with someone who acts like you used to) because we had hoped if you could do it we could too (and figure out how to create the trigger). However, a divorce is not the end result most of us want.
Just a comment on the sadness of this news for two people whom I have never met and had looked to for advice for several years
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I’ve read this blog since 2009 but never posted, so this is my first and last post. I read The Millionaire Next Door based on the recommendation from Get Rich Slowly, and among their many pearls of wisdom, the authors noted that the vast majority of millionaires they interviewed were married and never divorced. The authors posit that is no accident, as marriage creates wealth and divorce destroys it. For me, the very concept of divorce as a lifestyle choice (absent abuse or infidelity) is anathema to the idea of “getting rich slowly”– to say nothing of the broken vows and emotional and psychological costs– and therefore I think I’ll find someplace else to inspire me to live frugally and build wealth. This blog has lost its way.
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@ JD
Okay, thanks for your reply to my previous post. I was looking for it to retort once more, but with 300+ posts I got lost in the pages. So here it is:
Alright, since there is no triangle, then why be such a blockhead? You want to live differently, you want to try new things, whatever. Divorce over living quarters or vacation time or whatever is like burning the house to get rid of the fleas. That, and everything other people (especially women) said about you looking at this only from your own perspective while believing erroneously it’s for both of you.
Anyway, you’re lucky to have such a great cousin. Maybe she can give you the boot to the head you so much require.
I know you think you’re not fucking it up (your words), but there is such thing as being ignorant and naive or falling prey to wishful thinking– you were once ignorant about money and got into debt, now you’re being ignorant about relationships and how they operate and are about to plunge into full bankruptcy.
Don’t fuck it up man. Go see a good shrink before doing something irreversibly stupid. Best wishes.
–
ps- read this: http://www.newyorker.com/archive/1996/06/24/1996_06_24_128_TNY_CARDS_000375157
not the visible summary but the full essay. i read it in print ages ago. it’s damn good.
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Why exactly is he about to plunge into full bankruptcy? Particularly if he has no debt and got what I surmise he got for selling the blog?
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it’s a metaphor. maybe i should have written “you’re about to plunge into full relationship bankruptcy” so that the parallel was perfectly clear, but the editing runs out at 30′.
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I was afraid this was happening. Even the way you phrased things in your column I could see yourself distancing yourself from Kris.
I know I should be supportive, but I’m more of the until death do you part, versus, until I don’t feel like it anymore.
I think your mind is set so go ahead with your plans, but I think it’s a bit much to expect Kris to be friends with you after this, kind of like having your cake and eating it too. This is a deep wound you are giving her and asking her to overlook just to make you feel better.
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Amy wrote: “From my own point of view, as a 28-year-old who is hopefully soon to be engaged, it triggers a base fear. What if, someday, my husband asks me for a divorce?”
Fortunately, you’re not married yet. That “base fear” can serve as sort of a wake-up call prompting you and your significant other to have the conversation that J.D. and Kris may wish they had had 20 years ago … indeed, the discussion that every single couple considering marriage today should have.
What do you believe marriage is? If you’ve got a traditional understanding of marriage as a vocation, as a permanent act of self-giving (“through good times and in bad, till death do us part” and so on) … then you need to find out whether your SO shares that understanding. Find out whether that’s what he wants, too.
The modern conception of marriage as an affectionate relationship between two people, which is not necessarily permanent (though it may turn out to be, so long as both people find it beneficial), is a radical departure from the older concept of marriage. Yet it has quickly replaced the more ancient concept, in huge swaths of western society. Many young people in the U.S. today may not ever even have considered the way the traditional institution was supposed to work.
Yet for some reason, often people beginning this sort of “modern marriage” will go ahead and use the traditional vows. It’s almost like they see it as a ritual – reciting beautiful old poetic words, but without meaning behind them.
This may be okay if both parties know that they’re not really taking vows, and they share the desire for the “modern marriage”.
The devastating problem arises when one person really believes the couple is taking vows, and the other believes they’re just using a traditional ritual that hangs on from an outdated concept.
So, TALK with your intended about marriage. Really it’s best to have this talk soon after a relationship gets serious, before becoming engaged.
You, Amy, are in exactly the right place at the right time. You need not be afraid.
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Thank you for your words, Teresa. In terms of my own situation, my boyfriend and I have had many talks about what marriage means to us. I have no intention of walking into things blindly. Unfortunately our situation is tough because he grew up in a broken home with no good male role models, so his own view of marriage is different than mine is. Hence the base fear triggered by J.D.’s post. That said, my boyfriend has already said that if things started not working that he would absolutely go to couples counseling with me and work hard with me on fixing things.
Ultimately, getting married is an act of faith (even for the non-religious, like us) and hope. You can go into things with the best of intentions, with a strong understanding of your partner and a firm, deep commitment, and that doesn’t mean the marriage will work or that someday your partner won’t leave you. But you hope it will work, and you try your damnedest to make it work, because the commitment means something.
I don’t have a very good understanding of what J.D.’s marriage to Kris has been like. I don’t think any of us really do. Maybe they did everything they could, and maybe they didn’t. I just hope that things work out the best for the both of them, regardless.
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I think it’s good that you at least understand what the differences are between how you view marriage because of your upbringing and what your expectations are. This is a pretty common secular way to view marriage (i am not saying that in a negative way, i think secular marriage can work great if you both are on the same page. studies show it’s agreement over values, not particular value systems, that matter for the most part). In my case, my ex saw marriage as a partnership based on love that just had a legal seal and could be dissolved if one partner became dissatisfied, but not without an attempt to salvage it for the children and the “idea of marriage”. This is a perfectly normal definition shaped by a modern view of marriage as an institution dedicated to self-realization where you both come together to achieve personal happiness and achieve individual goals and dreams
I promised myself with my next partner I would marry someone who shared my commitment to a Christian idea of marriage where it is really an institution dedicated to service to the other, a challenge to lose yourself for your husband and both of you to sacrifice yourselves for your children and family. This isn’t always a “happy” view of marriage- it means giving up a lot of things, putting yourself after others, learning to discipline yourself sexually, financially, personally. It means not always being happy, not necessarily achieving all of your goals and dreams. It’s hard, but like hard work it can be very fulfilling when you see the growth of what you have created together and how you have grown yourself. That’s why we end all of the vows in the Episcopal Church with “I will, with God’s help.” Marriage is rough, I don’t want to go into it without the image of Christ’s love, service, self-sacrifice and grace as the center of my union. I know that I couldn’t do it alone, and I wouldn’t want my husband to face it alone either. I am now dating someone who shares my faith and the difference is HUGE. I have so much peace knowing that the marriage wouldn’t just be about ME- am i making him happy? is he satisfied? is he getting everything he needs?- I think we put too much on our partners in modern marriage. there isn’t a perfect person out there who will completely fulfill your every desire and dream. we aren’t perfect people! we shouldn’t expect marriage to be either. I suggest Timothy Keller’s “The Meaning of Marriage” or the book “Sacred Marriage” if you want to understand the difference more.
but again, its agreeing about the definition that matters and the values that shape that definition of marriage
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i second that. make sure that you know what your partner thinks marriage IS exactly. would you go into a contract for a business with someone without discussing what your expectations were, what the contract meant, why it should be dissolved etc? NO. you should take marriage at least as seriously. I almost married my ex until the subject came up and he said something along the lines of “its just a legal contract” that makes a relationship official. For me, it wasn’t, and that conversation opened up a wide divide between us in terms of values. I want a partner who thinks of marriage the same way that I do and who shares my commitment to that definition of marriage. That’s what husbands, not boyfriends, are made of.
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This!
Now I just have to find a phrasing for “till death or whenever we want it to be over do we part” that doesn’t sound so jarring.
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Our vows said something like “I take you, XX, as my (husband) (wife), from this day forward…”
Neither of us vowed “till death us do part.” It IS possible to say vows you actually mean.
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But “this day forward” INCLUDES every single successive day after the day you got married. If anything, your vows are even MORE perpetual than the standard “till death do us part!” At least with the traditional phrasing, you’re free to move on after one of you passes on. With your vows, you’re hooked for eternity, even BEYOND death.
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I would like to add my voice to adding some distance instead of hanging out and going on vacation together. Of course she wants to – because she still hopes. When she realizes that hope is in vain she will not feel good at all, and you can’t really stand around saying “it was your choice” or “told you so” without being a real nasty bastard. Distance now actually gives you a better chance of being friends later. Buying a ticket for a different friend to go with her on her trip would be a wonderful gift (not at all frugal, but very kind and thoughtful).
You are moving on so move on already! Saying its not your fault she doesn’t want distance is cowardly and awful. Time for Get Rich Slowly to be Get Some Balls Now.
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Sorry this had to happen. Hope you can stay friends.
Health insurance: Try calling her provider and see if they have something basic you can roll over to. It worked with BC/BS when my son left home.
(Don’t know if someone suggested this. Not reading through 338 comments to find out.)
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Did you explore all avenues before asking for a divorce? Counseling? Talking things out?
Reconnecting? I guess that’s why you went on your trip to SA alone.
Try to explore all options before signing the dissolution of marriage doc
Anyway, best of luck.
To those that find it so quick to judge:
“If someone isn’t what others want them to be, the others become angry. Everyone seems to have a clear idea of how other people should lead their lives, but none about his or her own.”
The Alchemist.
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Loved the quote. Stole for my own blog’s header:)
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I’m sure this has been a long and painful decision on your part and I hope that you both come out the better for it.
Since this is your decision and not Kris’, you need to stay away from each other for a long while. Complete your “table divorce” and walk away. You can’t leave the marriage and still ask her to remain friends it’s too soon. She needs to go through the grieving process, and right now she’s in denial and hopeful that you will come to your senses. Until she gets through the stages of loss, especially the hate, and ultimately acceptance, you will not be able to truely be friends.
I understand it when you say it’s the best for the both of you, even though it’s a unilateral decision. It’s because you know the hurtful person you could become if you stayed and “made it work” if your heart wasn’t in it.
Since you’re the initiator, and it’s not mutual you’re the “bad guy” so I’ll share this proverb:
“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.”
Best wishes to you and Kris.
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As a long time reader of GRS, I have observed the creeping selfish tone of this blog over the past year. I am now unsubscribed.
Middle age male crises are oh so boring. JD, you are a selfish, self-absorbed man.
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I had to do a reread of this post. JD you are so brave. Thanks for sharing!
I am glad to hear your friendship will remain with Kris.
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I wish you both the best. With big transitions, where you end up is not always where you planned, so try to stay open. If it wasn’t working for one, and it had continued, it would have been unfair to the other, who would have been getting less than they deserve.
Thank you for being brave enough to admit this in a public forum.
Best wishes of health, hope, and happiness to you both going forward.
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I’ve been trying to figure out how to word this (and yes, I know you have gotten alot of crap from all of us here. I’m going to try and see if I can put into words what many here are trying to say. You may or may not agree.
The thing is, even if I transcend everything, and accept that you truly believe this is for the best, that your motives are altruistic and this is hurting you as much as Kris (doubtful) there’s still this: Put simply, because you are the iniatator and the cause of pain, you have a responsibility, the only responsiblity here, to be the one in charge. YOU are the one responsible for causeing no more pain. Right now, Kris has the emotional intelligence of a split pea (and if youre reading this, I dont mean it unkindly-I’ve been a the leftee in a divorce, as well as a widow). She should not be making ANY, I repeat ANY emotinal decisons at the moment and only those financial ones as required. You know, the old change nothing for ninety days thing?
what that means is in terms of travel, especially, YOU have to grow a brain, and a backbone. Think about what will happen in Argentina. YOu will a. sleep together, leaving Kris an emotional trainwreck, or you will b. Kiss her on the forehead and go to separate rooms. Seriously??? The woman you have been involved with for twenty some years? She CANNOT think for herself. for God’s sake, think for both of you. While SOMEDAY you may be able to travel as friends-seriously, on this one, you have GOT TO BE KIDDING? Has no one in your real life told you this? That you will tear your wife apart in firendliness? If not, you need some new friends and family. period.
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“Discussion”? “If it’s better for her”? Get your head out of your butt and man up – do the right thing and don’t put this woman you used to love through any more crap on top of your selfish decision to leave her.
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I’m actually replying to JD. You wrote:
While I’m not going to write online about my reasons for choosing this path, please understand that I wouldn’t be doing this if I didn’t think it was in the best interests of both of us. (Kris disagrees, obviously.)
Then you wrote:
Why shoud you, a complete stranger, get to decide what’s right for Kris? Why shouldn’t Kris get to decide that?
You didn’t seriously type both of those statements after any thought, did you?
You already decided what was best for Kris. Why not continue in that vein?
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J.D.’s response to this comment hit the nail on on the head – there’s an undertone that has been going on with many of these comments that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Kris is fully capable of making her own decisions as to what is in her best interest. For J.D. to completely cut her off while she’s going through this without consulting her is paternalistic and could be cruel. She is not a child, she is not “emotionally incapable of acting rationally” because her husband asked for a divorce.
The fact that J.D. recognizes this and seems to be getting a little offended on her behalf says more about his character than anything else I have read on this post or in the comments. It also says that some of these projections and soap opera narratives people are berating him for in the comments are completely unrelated to the actual situation.
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Im trying to be polite and tell you that this is not a “discussion” issue. This is a “you man up and make the decision issue} because the other party cannot. One of the absolutes with it comes to make no decision that is not absolutely required for six months. Kris is going through that grief, and the same rules apply. While obviously some financial decisions have to be made other than that no onus should be put on her.
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While I’m sad to see a marriage of 20+ years ending; I’m glad you two are trying to do so in an amiable manner. I wish you both the best of luck and and I hope you two can find peace on your new and forking road. May you both be surrounded by people who care for you and support you through this difficult time. Finally, thank you both for sharing this intensely personal event online to strangers. That takes incredible courage and I hope you both can carry that courage into your new futures.
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I, too, am gracefully bowing out of this PF community. The direction of the site over the last year has left me cold, to say the least. The articles have been frivolous and boring, and the staff writers are frankly not that good. And now we find out that the site has been sold four months ago and nary a word to your loyal readers? Not cool.
I’m saddened by the news of your divorce, and am torn between not judging and well, judging. I’ll just say this – I have been where Kris is now. It’s horrendous. It kills a part of your soul. And until you’ve been thrown away for a midlife crisis, a pile of money, a younger women, youth-chasing, insert grass-is-greener scenario, you have no idea how much another person can damage you. And it never goes away. Sure, she can move on with her life, but a part of her will forever be broken.
I’m sorry, but reading about your new life of adventure (or whatever this is), coupled with the downhill slide of the posts, and now this corporate takeover…well, you get the idea.
Best of luck to you, JD.
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The site was sold far longer than four months ago.
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I agree with you lola, being tossed aside for something “better” is a horrible feeling, you feel lost and worthless. Only to emerge out of it later a stronger and harder person, knowing you were none of those things and the real problem was them. It takes a long time to convince yourself that. It is funny how you can say money doesn’t influence that but it does.
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All I can say is wow! As a long time reader and an infrequent commenter I feel I know you and Kris. In the past year I have noticed a difference in your plans for the future per your posts. But it breaks my heart to hear this. I always felt your advice was so spot on. Plus like me and my husband you and Kris are dual income with no kids, which is hard to come by in personal finance. I hope you both the best of luck in your future lives without one another. I. Please proceed with caution in regards to how friendly you will be together. And thanks for sharing!
I do see how your blog has envolved as you have and I love it! I guess the reason is I have grown too so my interests and priorities have changed.
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One more thing, seize this opportunity for either Kris or you to talk about this situation from a financial point of view.
I know I can relate to the pros and cons after a divorce.
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Looks like you’ve gotten enough sympathy, anger, and advice to go through the cycle of grief 50 times, so I won’t bother with all that.
I wish both you and Kris nothing but happiness as you transition to a new type of relationship that will (hopefully) provide opportunities for tremendous growth for both of you.
No matter how much we feel we know about you and your life, you’re the one who lives it.
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I know I am in the minority, but I am NOT in the camp of marriages are forever. Being 24, by the end of highschool it was weird if your parents were still together. I’ve seen cheating (my brother caught our dad in a mall with the other woman(About 400 miles away from home, isn’t that just good luck.(Long story))), to falling apart (parent completely changing from who they were when they met), to parent realizing that they married and had children because that was what they were supposed to do. On the other hand I’ve seen parent stick together through illnesses, parents still in love after 25 years, and even parents happy with their respective ‘other’ people who have a successful and joyful family gathering every single Christmas.
I’ve been with my partner for 8 years, purposefully unmarried, as we both carry some emotional baggage, but we don’t carry logical baggage. Every single day is a choice. Does this relationship still work? Do I want to be with this person today? So far the answer has been yes. If the answer ever becomes no, then the emotional side will hurt, badly, but the logical side says that for how ever long a time we had, we both got things out of the relationship, that we would have been poorer without. On a personal (projecting) note, I have resented people getting angry because Kris ‘stuck by’ you, and that this decision to divorce is selfish. Having ‘been in Kris’s shoes’, sticking by my man through some very tough medical issues, unemployment and now being a sugar momma to a college student (he helped me while I was in school) I can say that I would not want to be with someone that felt the relationship was no longer working. I would cry, get angry for a while, and then realize that I had made the decision to stay as well, every single day. Both sides can take the responsibility for choosing to continue in the relationship. Doing anything else is assuming what will happen in the future, and feeling selfish themselves (I deserve something because I did…).
JD, I am sorry that so many people are projecting on you, or that they have such moral views on marriage that they can’t see you being a person through it. I hope that Kris got as much out of the marriage as you did, and that you can both move on with what you have gained from each other.
Good luck to you both, and yes, I still have you bookmarked. =)
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Annie – I think the same way as you, that marriages are not forever, and I’m 30. I’m starting to think that this is a generational thing, as many people in this age bracket grew up with divorced parents. I recall quite a few of my classmates parents divorced after their kids went off to college. I think many couples of our parent’s generation got married after college because it was time.
Granted, I have been married to my husband for 6(?) years, and we’ve been together for 12(?) – neither of us can remember because we don’t judge the quality of our relationship by the number of years we have been together. There are many levels of compatibility and I have never bought into the only one person for everyone. Perhaps if one doesn’t believe in one true love and for ever after, than you are more willing to accept the reality of life being two completely separate people choosing to go through life together for a period of time, rather than some type of unhealthy (IMHO) merging of two personalities into one personality with two heads.
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JD while I’m not happy that you’re divorcing your wife, I do think that she deserves to be loved and wanted by a man who is passionate about her, whom not only wants to be her husband but also her best friend.
I wish you would think about this for at least a year before you file to divorce. Think about what you’re doing before you officiate the divorce. However if after counseling, considerable thought you don’t love her, then don’t stay married to her out of pity.
She’ll probably resent you for not truly loving her. But if you’re going to ask for a divorce, get your own health insurance, don’t make her pay for it anymore. That’s abusing her kindness. Let her go on the trip with a friend.
While some “rare” people are able to be friendly after the divorce, most people don’t end up that way. You should get someone else on your will besides Kris, because what if she gets married?
What new couple wants to see the ex unless they have kids? Don’t make it any more painful.
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I’m not generally a commenter on GRS, but I’ve read your blog since my 2nd son was born. This post earned a rare expletive from me, and ended up waiting 24h before saying anything.
You’ve had a lot of important people depart from your life lately, and now you’re systematically destroying the rest of your support system by distancing yourself from the blog&readers via the sale, and now Kris.
I sincerely hope this period of being adrift lands you safely, and I don’t have to read an in memoriam page if I find my way back here.
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Just wanted to add my support. I moved out 10 months ago and our divorce was finalized 6 months ago. And while I have wanted to remain friends with my former husband, he wants a bit of time and space to pass before that can happen.
I’m glad for making the decision, it has been one of the most difficult that I’ve made but it really was for the best. I also found a small apartment for myself and I’m much happier in a smaller place. I’ve also worked on taking control of my finances (hence why I have read your blog for the last several months).
Oh, and one thing that my dad suggested to me that has helped. Make sure every meal that you have at your place is an event. Set the table, sit down, enjoy the food. I was in the habit of just grabbing something to eat and sitting in front of my laptop. Changing that pattern has helped my mood and attitude immensely.
Good luck and best wishes to you!
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I’m terribly sorry to hear this news. I’m praying for you two and hope that your relationship with Kris can continue. Best of luck. I don’t know everything, and I’m not trying to, but I hope you don’t make any rash decisions without evaluating all the consequences and hurt feelings. I’m sure you won’t. Thanks for being open with us.
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J.D., have you tried _absolutely everything_ you could do, over a long duration, to make this marriage the best it could be?
I am filled with emotion for you and Kris. I don’t know where to begin my thoughts.
I accept the possibility that you are making a good decision here. Only you and Kris know what your relationship is like. But I still think the more likely scenario is that you’re making a HUGE mistake.
However, I also think that the greatest success of GRS would be if you listened — really listened, with an open heart — to what your internet community’s collective voice is telling you in these comments, listened and reconsidered your decision, saved your marriage.
Go home. Now, tonight, before it’s too late, if it isn’t already. And start a new blog, a new project, tonight. The new project should be:
***putting all your effort into making your marriage to Kris the best it can possibly be***. (Get Bliss Slowly?)
You are clearly in some kind of relationship debt right now and have a LOT of work to do before you can even start building positive equity in the relationship.
But you can do it J.D.! You are the guy who got out of debt and changed his habits and reached great heights!
You know from experience that sometimes you have to put yourself out there, publicly on the line. Make this a public project.
Instead of tracking your budget, track at least 10 things you do each day to make Kris happier. Do tons of research like you did for money management. And learn from the best — in addition to interviewing Awesome People, interview people who pulled their marriage back from the brink and are grateful for it every day. In addition to famous jugglers, talk to un-famous people who successfully juggle careers, marriage, [children], positive world change, etc.
Become a world-class relationship partner. Bring her joy. Do small favors. Learn more about something that she cares about, even if you don’t (yet) care about it yourself. Find time to write her a letter everyday — even a short one — that comes from your heart. Make her something beautiful. Do one of her chores for an hour and give her some extra time to spend as she wishes. (Ahem, start doing all the laundry.) Listen to her. Then study listening and listen some more.
From where I stand, you don’t know a damn thing about love. But you can learn with Kris — if she’ll let you.
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Now the above is most likely true for your situation. But you don’t think it is… based on the secret knowledge of your relationship that only you have and will ever have. Thus you can safely brush aside this comment and all the others and go merrily on your reckless way.
It’s true, only you and Kris know the inside of your relationship, and I admit I’m being presumptuous… however, the information available to me leads to these conclusions. You are privy to all kinds of classified information that we don’t have.
But, J.D., let’s talk about that secret knowledge you have. It had better be EXTREME in order to support your actions here. There are some situations that could warrant your decision to divorce, for example:
(1) One of you only has attraction to same-sex partners, this was not disclosed before the marriage started, and you’ve already put in 1+ year of counseling. What can you do, it just sucks.
(2) You have some kind of bedroom incompatibility that is monumental and have been in counseling for years about it. This really strains the imagination but it is possible that one partner is just plain unwilling to accommodate in the slightest what the other wants/needs, and the other just can’t accept their partner’s unwillingness.
(3) One partner is mentally ill in a particularly dysfunctional way and the other partner, despite their best efforts over years and with the support of counseling, can no longer cope and, in the situation, is not even staying sane themselves.
(4) Emotional of physical abuse.
(5) One partner exhibits a pattern of lying that can’t seem to be broken.
(6) At least one partner no longer respects the other or cares about their well being.
I could go on, but I hope you see the pattern of extremity here.
Now here are some situations that I believe are insufficient reasons to ask for a divorce as you have, when the other doesn’t want it, and when you haven’t already made a GIGANTIC, LONG-TERM effort to fix and/or accept:
(A) “We’ve grown apart.”
(B) “We don’t have anything in common anymore.”
(C) One or both partners aren’t attracted to the other anymore.
(D) “I can’t forgive her for ___________.”
(E) “We got married for the wrong reasons.”
(F) “We want our lives to go in completely different directions.”
(G) “I’m holding her back from being her best self” / “She is holding me back from being my best self.”
(H) “I don’t like the person I’ve become with my partner.”
(I) “I’m happier when I’m not around her.” (or vice versa)
(J) “I’ve been thinking/wanting a divorce for a long time and just need to try it.”
(K) “She doesn’t know/understand me.” (and/or vice versa)
(L) Differences in politics, religion, belief in God.
(M) “We disagree about everything.”
(N) “We are always fighting and I hate it.”
(O) “After so much fighting, nagging, ignoring, and hurting over so many years, there is just nothing left in this relationship to salvage. We are both miserable and we’ve tried too many times to fix it and it just needs to end.”
(P) “Life is short, she is just not part of my dreams anymore and I need to pursue the life I want to live without her.”
I’ll stop. There are a million more. While bad, the situations in the second list could still be fixable. Please look at the two lists and think about that secret information you have about your relationship. Either way, you have my condolences and best wishes.
If things look like 1-6 or are similar to that vein, I admit you are most likely doing right, hard as it is.
If things look more like any of A-P than they do like any of 1-6, then you should immediately contact Kris, beg her to consider taking you back, and begin your major project of becoming an amazing, Awesome, and selfless partner in your soon-to-be strong marriage. You will find the journey far more fulfilling than the GRS project.
p.s. so many good comments here, many substantive. Thank you especially everyone who has shared their own experiences.
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This is a really lovely, open-hearted idea. It gave me a lot to think about, and my marriage is a very happy one.
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My heart goes out to Kris – having to read about how strangers on the Internet “saw the writing on the wall” about the end of her marriage must be a winter’s worth of salt in a deep wound.
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http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2011/06/20/big-house-little-house/
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I skimmed some of these past posts, thanks to you, and yes, JD has to march to the beat of his own drummer, as he has changed, which will keep him feeling passionate and alive and happy. To sell his soul for others, even those he cares about, would result in him losing his essence, his spirit, his soul — who he is. No one should do that. It’s HIS LIFE. Many do though because to do otherwise takes so much COURAGE. I have done the same thing, marched to the beat of my own drummer, realizing that I would rather have others hate me than have ME hate me for not being true to myself. To honor your essence like that and forge ahead does take courage, and conviction; it takes an inner strength – it’s hard, but the reward is feeling alive and happy and passionate each and every day, with lots of healthy habits, as opposed to slowly withering away and dying a little each day, which in time would result in a lot of negative, unhealthy behaviors. Interestingly, as we honor our essence, we learn to become our own best friend. We love ourselves first ahead of anyone else, and that is the hardest thing to do too, and when we reach that state, then wow, do we have so much more to give. From this state where we are fully self-actualized and happy, we give to others with no hidden agendas or strings attached. And we arrive at a place of extreme peacefulness and contentment. (I’m always sorry to hear of a relationship ending, especially when such good people are involved, and yet for JD to not honor who he has become, by how he has changed, would result in him withering away and dying a little bit each day.
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always loved that house…Kris should open a B&B. What a blog that would make eh?
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El Nerdo-
I wasn’t saying whether those who foretold a divorce were right or wrong; nor was I questioning whether or not there were “clues,” as it were.
Rather, I was expressing empathy for Kris (who, we are told, doesn’t think a divorce should be in the cards) hearing that total strangers knew her marriage was ending before she did.
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Big assumption there. When there’s a problem in a relationship – both parties know.
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Wow. I was shocked and saddened to read this. Unlike some of the other readers who saw this coming, I never would have guessed you and Kris would get divorced. The kind of relationship you two appeared to have always appealed to me, as you seemed to be a strong couple but still had your individual identities. I considered Kris to be a part of Get Rich Slowly, and I sort of feel like I’m losing a friend.
I’m sure this is a rough time for you, but I can’t help but have a hundred times more sympathy for Kris because this was your decision, not hers. Perhaps you will consider giving a bit more information about why you made this decision, because I know we are not seeing the whole story. With what little information you’ve provided, it appears that Kris stood by you while you made some irresponsible decisions, and now that you’ve improved yourself and built a successful career, you don’t think you need her any more. Perhaps we readers could be more understanding if you explained why you think this is best for both of you. It’s your life and your blog, so you can write what you wish, but it’s clear from the comments that some of your readers are pretty upset about this. I hope I’m not being too harsh because I can’t imagine that you are taking this decision lightly, but like it or not, your relationship with your readers affects your business.
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JD, Sorry to hear the news. I am an avid reader of your blog and comments that people people post. So wasn’t surprised after reading your note as many months ago, one of your readers did see the divorce coming and has posted it in the comments. Whatever you do , I hope works out well for both of you. All the best.
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Holy guacamole that’s a lot of comments!
I’m only going to comment on finding health insurance since that’s the stuff I know about.
You can stay on Kris’ health plan until the divorce is finalized. In fact, they probably won’t allow you to drop it prior to then. Once it is finalized, she will have 31 days in which to request the drop.
From that point, you’ll be eligible for 36 months of COBRA. Depending on your age and health, it may or may not be cheaper than an individual plan. Additionally, you can drop COBRA at any time if you find something cheaper.
In your case, you’ll have two choices for a health plan, an individual plan or else you could get a business plan as a sole proprietor.
So don’t feel like you have to get everything figured out immediately. You have time on the health insurance front.
Good luck to both of you with everything. No matter the circumstances, it’s never easy.
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I was involved long term with a man who was in every way my “one true love”. We were best friends, connected in a way I thought could never be severed. During our relationship he underwent several personal hardships that drove him into deep introspection about the shape he wanted his life to take. I was privy to his philosophizing and personal development and emotional upheaval, but was unfortunately left out of most of the process. I should have read the writing on the wall, but stuck around to the bitter end out of unconditional love. When it finally came completely unraveled, his unilateral decision to leave was explained in much the same words you are using here. He continued to care deeply for me, but couldn’t complete his personal journey alongside me. He was doing this for both of us, as I deserved more than what he could give. As for me, I just wanted HIM, warts and all. I agreed to all the contact he suggested. We said we’d remain close friends. We had weekly lunch dates. We even went on a pre-planned trip together with friends 2 months after our breakup. It was awkward and horrible. I remember him saying at the end of this trip, “I hope I’m not just f*cking everything up. But I really believe that this is how things have to be.”
Fast forward 1 year. After realizing I was torturing myself by trying to still give my all to someone who had turned down my affection, I cut out contact. I spent a lot of time doing my own self-reflection, coming to terms with my enduring, yet unrequited, love for this man. So after about a year, I ventured timidly back into the dating fray. And met my husband-to-be soon after(!) who DID give me what I deserved: an enduring, loving partnership.
But 6 months into dating hubby-to-be… guess who showed up at my door? My old flame, whose year apart from me had not resulted in much revelation. In all his soul-searching, he had come back around to the one stable and enduring relationship he had known. But he had come too late. I now had two men that I loved, but one who had given me every reason to question his love for me. So, after many tears, we parted again.
Fast forward 10 years. I’m happily married, with children. I think of my old flame from time to time, wishing him the best. We’ve seen each other a few times in the past decade but we have nothing like the closeness we had when together and certainly nothing like what we had both hoped for at the end of our relationship. He has yet to marry but has been wildly successful in his career and takes many exotic trips. He has a look of wanderlust in his eyes, wanting to find something out there to complete himself, to explain his existence here. I still wish that he would have let me support and love him as he struggled to find that inner peace that he is searching for.
J.D., I don’t mean to project my story onto your life. I hardly know anything about you, let alone your marriage with Kris. But with many similarities, I thought there might be some lessons learned here, for both of you. I just hope that you understand what a big bet you are taking. Please don’t imagine what your new life will be like with Kris as a good friend, instead imagine what your life will be like without Kris in it at all. Because that is what you are risking.
And to Kris: Knowing that you have not turned love aside is a powerful source of inner strength. There will be much grief, denial and anger to get through before acceptance. Please be patient with yourself, but know that it is possible to continue loving someone who has left you, while fully accepting the end of that relationship and moving forward with your own life and renewed happiness.
Peace to you both.
J.D.’s note: There have been many great comments in this thread, from all ends of the spectrum. But this, in my mind, is the best one so far. Thanks for sharing your story, May. I’ll make sure Kris sees it.
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JD, I’ve been reading since 2006. Looking at the archives, it was the Gasbuddy post that introduced me to your site. It has been great–really inspiring–to read about your journey out of debt for so many years. Getting to know Kris in a very small, filtered way via your blog was a delight. A dozen times or so, I have thought how cool it would be to meet up with you and Kris for dinner in Portland, as both of you seem like interesting people. So, alas, that will not be happening.
My heart goes out to Kris, and I hope that both of you will find yourselves happier when all of the chaos of change subsides. Like so many here, I would love to see you two work it out, but it’s none of my business what goes on in your personal life.
As to the direction of GRS, I was surprised that you had sold it, but then the trends I have been seeing for a while made more sense. The staff writing has generally lowered the quality of the site–a lot of posts are no better than what content aggregator sites have, and blatant errors and misrepresentations are pretty frustrating to see. It’s the GRS community and their comments that are most interesting now. I like to think in retrospect that your (reasonable) preoccupation with your personal life meant you had less time to exercise editorial control.
I hope GRS keeps going, and that you reconnect in a way that is interesting and enjoyable to you. A few people have mentioned wanting to see some of the old-style personal financial advice from you as you navigate newly found singleness post-divorce. Even though that topic doesn’t apply to me, I’d be much more interested to read it than the vacuous drivel that makes up most of the posts here these days.
tl;dr: best wishes to both of you, and I hope GRS returns to the level of usefulness it was at several years ago.
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If we are as awesome as you say we are, and we add as much value to the site as we give ourselves credit, you owe it to us to us to disclose the fact that the site was sold and the implications therein.
Absent of doing that, you are using us. We have a pretense of what this site is, who runs it, how it makes money, etc – all based on years of what you’ve posted and said. Then behind the scenes, all that changes… and we are left in the dark.
Now my comments aren’t benefiting your site, but some unknown companies site. What do they do? Is my email address now going to the corporation? are they making money off the links? Are the links for banks and credit cards JD-approved (which i assumed they were), or now they just pretend to be so that the mystery company can make money?
I don’t care that you sold the site. I feel used though that you did it without informing your readers and discussing the changes. No one forced you to sign a non-disclosure agreemment, and you should have said something to you readers
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Am just now reading this post today – am a couple weeks behind in Google Reader. I believe it was the Hypermiler post ( http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2007/03/05/extreme-personal-finance-the-most-fuel-efficient-driver-in-the-world/ ) I stumbled across a few years back that soon made me become a regular (if slightly behind) reader. Reading over this makes me appreciate just how much my wife means to me.
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I thought I’d leave some practical advice here for JD and Kris, in case it’s helpful. I’ve commented previously on this post about my conflicting feelings, but as someone who went through a divorce myself, I thought I’d try to be useful.
1. Both parties should print out a current credit report to share with the other person. If there are any joint accounts, cancel in writing, or remove one party in writing. Then get another credit report in 30-90 days to confirm the cancellation/removal occurred. This can save a lot of headaches even years later.
2. Get copies of tax returns and other paperwork for your files.
3. Decide how to handle wedding photos and sentimental items. In some cases it’s best for the “initiator” to remove everything or box it up for later. It is so hard to stumble across a photo or memento in a drawer when you’re not ready for it.
4. Forward your mail, change your address where applicable, and update your phone number if you have a landline — remember how many websites might have it. Don’t leave Kris getting calls for you months from now.
5. You’ve probably already done this, but communicate with family and friends and let them know the situation, and how/when you want to be in touch. You may need a “quiet period” where people aren’t hounding you.
6. Go on a trip, alone. This especially applies to Kris — doesn’t have to be exotic, could be a hiking trip, yoga retreat, renting a house somewhere to just BE. She needs time away, and you need to realize what life is like when there is no possibility of running into her, talking to her on the phone, etc.
7. On a related note — even though (actually, *because*) you want this to be amicable, you need to cut off contact for set periods. No calling, no driving by the house, nothing. See each other once a month or only as much as needed to move the process forward. It’s the only way to make this a reality for both of you.
8. I know you’ve moved to an apartment, but make sure you are 100% moved out of the house as soon as humanly possible. Don’t drag that out so that you “stop by” to pick up more stuff. I realize there’s a mortgage to sort out but if Kris is keeping the house, then the sooner your stuff is removed, the better. Yes it might mean a storage unit but do it. Until you’re really moved out it’s still a married house and Kris can’t start the process of letting go. Change the locks — not out of lack of trust, but because it will be *her* house now and that solidifies it.
The process is so difficult and so much more complex than you probably expect. When I look back on my own divorce it is a bit of a blur. Holding it together all day at work, then driving to my (new) home in tears every night when any sappy song came on the radio. I couldn’t eat, felt scared and wound up all the time, drank a few too many glasses of red wine, and pushed myself too hard at work and at the gym. And I was the initiator. This was years ago now but I still carry it with me. Take it one day at a time and realize that it WILL take time, feelings you may not be expecting will come in waves.
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Women are the “leavers” seventy percent of the time. When men do the leaving, they rarely leave to be alone and usually have someone waiting in the wings.
Kris might think she wants to stay married but end up much happier in the long run with someone else. The public exposure via this blog of myself and marriage would leave me ice cold–I’d want a partner who wouldn’t desire that.
This comment section on their divorce is probably bringing tons of wanted traffic to the site.
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One comment that I think is worth making….
You say that you disclosed the divorce because you would have to be making decisions (and potentially posts) that stem from your new situation and how that affects your finances.
However, you didn’t seem to do a big post letting readers know about selling your blog to Quinstreet. Some commentators have implied that you made a considerable amount of money from the sale, yet you haven’t addressed that part of the sale, or how it’s affected your financial outlook/decisions.
I’m frankly surprised that you would make a sale with these kind of conditions, given your apparent transparency with readers in the past.
It’s this decision more than the one to divorce that leaves me feeling a bit confused. But then I guess you can’t address any of this given the apparent gag order that you are under.
Do you find that chafing at all? Now that you are in a different life-stage of personal finance, is their less motivation to be forthcoming in the way that you started the blog?
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I completely agree. I had no idea the blog was sold. This is relevant information in a way that your divorce is not. Like Christine I find it interesting that you would feel the need or desire to disclose something to your readers that is clearly not any of our business but would withhold more pertinent information. I have no idea what to make of that.
No one should begrudge you professional success, but at some level don’t you think selling your blog to a marketing company is important information to disclose (and not just in the fine print but in an actual blog post)? Trent at the Simple Dollar did so, and from what I understand he just hired someone to help him manage his site.
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Reading between the lines, I have to wonder if the sale and the divorce are related. As part of any divorce settlement, Get Rich Slowly is an asset that would be difficult to divide without selling it. By selling it, it will make sure that Kris gets her fair share of this valuable asset.
Considering everything going on in JD’s personal life, I think the readers should forgive JD for not being as transparent as we are used to with regards to the sale of GRS. With the context we now have on what is going on in his life, it helps shed some light on why he might have sold the site without being more upfront about it.
That being said, I wish JD and Kris well, but feel that this blog does not speak to me as it once did. Over the past year I have found the posts on the site not connecting with me as they once did.
I wish you well JD on your journey, but I will not be able to continue on with you. Right now, my concerns focus around my wife and young son and leads me in a different direction.
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So much talk about Stuff vs. Experience on this blog, and in the end you chose Experiences over People.
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