A One-Term Proposition? Do we accept?

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iDude
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Re: A One-Term Proposition? Do we accept?

Postby iDude » Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:48 am

fantasma wrote:
iDude wrote:
Northern light wrote:Glad to finally have that out there. So, Tea party finally found someone who could read and actually read a book about politics? Great! Always very furfilling to see other people learn and evolve. Oh, sorry. Forgot - we don´t (evolve).

Anyway. Don´t read too much. You just might end up a liberal.


Nice. There are exceptionally literate people in the Tea Party, too. Like, say, me.


Why pick such an extreme platform?


Good question. What is the Tea Party's platform? I'm not being snarky; I just did a quick websearch to confirm my sense that... there isn't one (at least not an authoritative one). This forum thread is the closest I could find to confirming that: http://www.politicaljack.com/forums/sho ... y-Platform

More later, gotta go to work. |(

bpgui
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Re: A One-Term Proposition? Do we accept?

Postby bpgui » Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:49 am

VinTek wrote:Here's a serious answer and to keep it on-topic, it also address the fact that gas prices aren't necessarily high because the Obama administration rejected the Keyston XL Pipeline, but for other reasons. In fact, the interview addresses your exact question, almost word for word.

Of course. some people don't really want to learn the facts. They'd rather watch a biased "documentary" and accept what it says as...um...gospel, and form opinions based on what's spoon-fed to them.

Thanks, but that is specifically about gasoline rather than oil.

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Re: A One-Term Proposition? Do we accept?

Postby bpgui » Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:51 am

iDude wrote:
fantasma wrote:Why pick such an extreme platform?


Good question. What is the Tea Party's platform? I'm not being snarky; I just did a quick websearch to confirm my sense that... there isn't one (at least not an authoritative one). This forum thread is the closest I could find to confirming that: http://www.politicaljack.com/forums/sho ... y-Platform

More later, gotta go to work. |(

There's a lot of FUD disseminated about the Tea Party/its members as well.

kombat
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Re: A One-Term Proposition? Do we accept?

Postby kombat » Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:06 am

This whole thread is pointless and moot. With each passing day, Romney offers up ever more outlandish gaffes and soundbites, the latest being that 47% of Americans are lazy, entitled freeloaders who pay no income tax. He may have been right, but a lot of those folks happen to be retirees and veterans who would have voted for him. The guy is shooting himself in the foot with a howitzer.

It's all but over, folks. This one is not even going to be close, so why waste your time navel-gazing about an election where the outcome is already a done-deal? Face it: The Repubs picked the wrong horse and handed the Dems 4 more years on a platter. Even Palin would have gotten more votes than this guy will.

VinTek
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Re: A One-Term Proposition? Do we accept?

Postby VinTek » Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:18 am

kombat wrote:why waste your time navel-gazing about an election where the outcome is already a done-deal?

Because the Senate is still in play. The election is as much about where each party will take the country. It goes beyond who is a the head of each respective party.

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Re: A One-Term Proposition? Do we accept?

Postby VinTek » Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:22 am

bpgui wrote:
VinTek wrote:Here's a serious answer and to keep it on-topic, it also address the fact that gas prices aren't necessarily high because the Obama administration rejected the Keyston XL Pipeline, but for other reasons. In fact, the interview addresses your exact question, almost word for word.

Of course. some people don't really want to learn the facts. They'd rather watch a biased "documentary" and accept what it says as...um...gospel, and form opinions based on what's spoon-fed to them.

Thanks, but that is specifically about gasoline rather than oil.

<shrug> Gasoline is just the final form. What is gasoline? Processed oi..

bpgui
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Re: A One-Term Proposition? Do we accept?

Postby bpgui » Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:01 am

VinTek wrote:
bpgui wrote:
VinTek wrote:Here's a serious answer and to keep it on-topic, it also address the fact that gas prices aren't necessarily high because the Obama administration rejected the Keyston XL Pipeline, but for other reasons. In fact, the interview addresses your exact question, almost word for word.

Of course. some people don't really want to learn the facts. They'd rather watch a biased "documentary" and accept what it says as...um...gospel, and form opinions based on what's spoon-fed to them.

Thanks, but that is specifically about gasoline rather than oil.

<shrug> Gasoline is just the final form. What is gasoline? Processed oi..

yes, but oil is also used for other things. Are we a net exporter of oil or gasoline or both? And it doesn't really answer why we buy gas/oil from other countries and sell our own to other countries.

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Re: A One-Term Proposition? Do we accept?

Postby DoingHomework » Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:52 am

Eagle wrote:While Romney's religion in Mormonism, in my opinion, is unfortunate I believe he's the lesser of two evils.


Why does the president's religion matter so much?

This reminds me of a story I read on CNN in the last couple of weeks - a woman on the street, somewhere in the Bible Belt, was asked about which candidate she was going to vote for.

Here answer, and I'm paraphrasing, was that Barack is a muslim, Mitt is a mormon, neither are christians but Romney is just going to help his rich friends so she'll vote for Obama because he understands regular people.

Wow, and her vote counts as much as mine...

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Re: A One-Term Proposition? Do we accept?

Postby VinTek » Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:35 am

bpgui wrote:yes, but oil is also used for other things. Are we a net exporter of oil or gasoline or both? And it doesn't really answer why we buy gas/oil from other countries and sell our own to other countries.

Apparently, it's gasoline and other petroleum products.

I think we import oil because we can refine it more cheaply than other countries. We process the stuff, then sell it at a value-added price. Evidently, the demand here has declined to the point where we have a surplus to sell. The reason prices don't go down is because the rest of the world bids it up. What oil refiner would sell his wares in the US at a lower price when he could get more money for it overseas? This is one of the effects of having a global economy.

CNN wrote:The United States is both an exporter and an importer of gasoline at the same time. It's like we're two different countries. A lot of the oil produced in the U.S. gets refined into gasoline in Louisiana, Texas, and Mississippi. It then goes into pipelines for distribution to East Coast states and other areas where gas is consumed.

But those pipelines, Rob Smith says there are too few of them and they're not big enough.

SMITH: These pipelines are essentially filled to the brim, so to speak, and yet the East Coast markets still don't have enough gasoline. So they're forced to import.

GJELTEN: The East Coast imports gasoline even though there's more than enough gasoline available down south. So the gasoline down there gets exported, mostly to Latin America. And now the U.S. is officially exporting more gas than its importing.

In part it's because the U.S. is producing more gasoline; more importantly, we're consuming less; ethanol is displacing some gasoline; we have more efficient cars. Plus, we are driving less, for reasons ranging from the economic downturn to the aging of the U.S. population.

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Re: A One-Term Proposition? Do we accept?

Postby DoingHomework » Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:22 am

VinTek wrote:I think we import oil because we can refine it more cheaply than other countries. We process the stuff, then sell it at a value-added price. Evidently, the demand here has declined to the point where we have a surplus to sell. The reason prices don't go down is because the rest of the world bids it up. What oil refiner would sell his wares in the US at a lower price when he could get more money for it overseas? This is one of the effects of having a global economy.


And that's a good thing. The US has a comparative advantage for refining while others have a comparative advantage for extraction. The margins are in refining if I'm not mistaken.

We also import aluminum ore and export airplanes, etc. etc.

(Now, since this positive development occurred during Mr. Obama's reign, he gets the credit, right?)

bpgui
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Re: A One-Term Proposition? Do we accept?

Postby bpgui » Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:34 am

DoingHomework wrote:
(Now, since this positive development occurred during Mr. Obama's reign, he gets the credit, right?)

I would like to be able to say, "It depends on whether or not his policies brought about this development" but we all know Presidents often take the credit or blame for things they had nothing to do with and likewise often don't get the credit or blame for thing that they did.

Northern light
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Re: A One-Term Proposition? Do we accept?

Postby Northern light » Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:30 am

iDude wrote:Nice. There are exceptionally literate people in the Tea Party, too. Like, say, me.

Well, you fine folks "over there" have been so preoccupied hating comunism you have been neglecting to study what it actually is. That said, is not a very charming proposition as such. I am just saying many center/left americans are. Noam Chomsky for one (quite left there). Paul Krugman is another.

Obama, regardless what you think of him, is quite "right" as far as political spectrum goes - even though he might not be in a US context. Conservatism and liberalism outdate the USA, even though socialism might not.

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Re: A One-Term Proposition? Do we accept?

Postby DoingHomework » Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:42 am

iDude wrote:Good question. What is the Tea Party's platform? I'm not being snarky; I just did a quick websearch to confirm my sense that... there isn't one (at least not an authoritative one). This forum thread is the closest I could find to confirming that: http://www.politicaljack.com/forums/sho ... y-Platform


I try to be open-minded. Really. I am registered to vote with no party affiliation. I'd probably be a libertarian if the members of that party were not a bunch of...well...I digress.

A couple of years ago I thought that the tea party might be something of interest. I tried to find out what they really stand for. I also had great difficulty finding a platform statement. When I found one it turned out to be illuminating. I truly could support many of the individual policy statements but taken as a whole the platform was inconsistent and moronic.

It was then that I decided for myself that I do not believe it is possible to be both intelligent and a supporter of the tea party movement. Literate? Yes. Even morons can learn to read. I would even go so far as to say that someone who supports a subset of the tea party ideals could be intelligent. But as a complete platform, you'd have to either be disingenuous or a moron to think it could work.

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Re: A One-Term Proposition? Do we accept?

Postby DoingHomework » Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:52 am

bpgui wrote:
DoingHomework wrote:
(Now, since this positive development occurred during Mr. Obama's reign, he gets the credit, right?)

I would like to be able to say, "It depends on whether or not his policies brought about this development" but we all know Presidents often take the credit or blame for things they had nothing to do with and likewise often don't get the credit or blame for thing that they did.


I was being facetious. I think giving any president credit or assigning blame for anything but broad policy that they effectively implemented is ridiculous.

George W. Bush did not cause the recession that began in 2008 during his term

Barack Obama did not cause the unemployment rate to stay so high.

BO did not make oil and gas prices go up.

We've seen it demonstrated that a huge portion of both the deficit and the debt escalation are attributable to the GWB tax cuts. So he gets much of the blame for those.

BO was effective at getting health care reform implemented. Since it has not completely gone into effect yet we do not know the long term impact. But once it is known, BO gets much of the blame or credit.

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Re: A One-Term Proposition? Do we accept?

Postby VinTek » Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:03 am

DoingHomework wrote:It was then that I decided for myself that I do not believe it is possible to be both intelligent and a supporter of the tea party movement. Literate? Yes. Even morons can learn to read. I would even go so far as to say that someone who supports a subset of the tea party ideals could be intelligent. But as a complete platform, you'd have to either be disingenuous or a moron to think it could work.

This is new? Rick Santorum himself stated to a group of conservative Republicans that "We will never have the elite, smart people on our side..."


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