ObamaCare (+Tangents Evolution, Religion, & Global Warming)

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Eagle
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Re: ObamaCare (+Tangents Evolution, Religion, & Global Warmi

Postby Eagle » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:31 am

VinTek wrote: And for the record, the destruction of wealth wasn't due to wealth redistribution. The wealth measured was the net worth of individual Americans, most of which was held in stock portfolios (including 401(k)s and IRAs) and real estate. The destruction of that wealth was already going on full force when Obama took office.


Stocks portfolios and the real estate bubble collapse did contribute. My investment balances reflect that. I agree Obama isn’t all to blame for the past. But he is responsible for his term of office. I just wish his die-hard supporters wouldn’t deflect all the blame off of our President.

VinTek wrote: If you were reaching your own conclusions and doing your own research, you'd have used a National Debt figure of $15T-$16T instead of $14T, which is currently closer to the present number. It seems pretty evident that you used somebody else's words and that those words were written some time back.


See the article and link I posted above from the Washington Post in response to kombat’s post. I didn't realize it was from 2011.

VinTek wrote: Edit: note that the graph doesn't defend Obama on the deficit. It clearly shows the deficit going up under him. But seriously, how can you blame him for the entirety of it when it was built on the debt of his predecessors?


Simple. I don’t. Oh and I drink my No Blame Kool-aid. ;)

VinTek wrote: Okay Eagle, let's see how you react to actual context and data that isn't addressed in something you can cut and paste. And don't even think of running off on an another tangent; I'll call you out on it if you do. Focus, m'boy, focus.


Conservatives are quite embarrassed by this performance, so they have invented a cover story: The Democratic Congress did it. Nice try. But for 12 of the 20 years the Congress was not Democratic..


Okay so assuming the data is true let’s say conservatives are 60% responsible and liberals are 40% responsible for that time period (Reagan/Bush). 5 Trillion added to the debt was under Democratic majority leadership. The honor of the tipping point of 100% still belongs to President Obama. What a legacy.

Sorry VinTek that's all I got.

Frankly I’m tired of this thread. |( More pointedly because I feel I’m the only conservative representative (handling over 200+ replies is becoming to cumbersome) and because I have a family/job to consider. We have made it to the 300 replies (is this a thread record?) mark (nearly 28% or 84 mine) and nearly 2800 views. My goal was to discuss these issues and get 300 replies. :clap:

Thanks all for your thoughts it has been great fun getting your perspectives. It has been a great stretching experience. I have realized I still have lot's to learn regarding economics, science, politics, and even exploring further into religions. To those whom I have offended or disappointed I apologize. It was not my intention. I will leave you to continue with the discussions on this thread. I will still be pursuing the personal finance topics and may check back from time to time. But 2-4 long (yes I admit it lol) posts per day is just not sustainable. Once again I am very grateful to all of you. I wish you all long lives and great success.
~ Eagle
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kaitlyn142
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Re: ObamaCare (+Tangents Evolution, Religion, & Global Warmi

Postby kaitlyn142 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:43 am

Insult me, say every fact I can prove is 100% because I drank Kool Aid and run away. Dude, no respect. None.

I declare the liberal side won!

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Re: ObamaCare (+Tangents Evolution, Religion, & Global Warmi

Postby DoingHomework » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:56 am

Eagle wrote:That was a false statement regarding it being since President Obama took office. I miss-spoke.


That's what keeps happening with you Eagle. Perhaps if you dug a little deeper into the talking points someone is feeding you then you will see the truth...and you will have more credibility.

In your post that I excerpted above, you corrected that it was not Obama who tripled the debt but rather (mostly) Bush Jr. Well that's a huge error, don't you think? Bush was president during a time of moderate economic expansion and growth. There was no reason to spend and increase the debt during that time. He should have continued the Clinton-era practice of actually having balanced budgets. Instead they had to cut taxes to start this whole mess. When will these numbskulls learn...tax cuts do not increase government revenue. I like them as much as the next rich guy, but they just don't help the government finances. If your family were deep in debt would you be trying to cut your salary to help the situation? This is one of those situation I've pointed out to you before. It is a failure to think critically and it is mostly accepted by a group of people, like you, who have been trained to accept things on faith and trust authority, even when what they tell you is patently ridiculous.

Now, once again, the newly monikered Mrs. K (or maybe more properly Dr. K) has marvelously addressed your 10 theses so I won't try to gild that lily. Ambition's post is quite good as well...and of course we can always expect sanity from Vintek and a good challenge from Kombat. Both of them have come through.

The bottom line though is that, while I agree that Obama has not done the best job in some areas, I think most of what you have said are simply right wing attack points that have no merit. You'd have a much better case if Congress had passed a few of his bills and you were criticizing the outcome. Instead you are attacking him for the failings of Congress and his predecessors.

And to your point about him being an embarrassment around the world. That's simply not true. I have been overseas twice this year and talked to quite a few people. Every single person I talked to thought Obama is doing a great job, partly because he has thrown out the American hegemonic arrogance that has dominated our foreign policy for decades in favor of an approach that might actually lead to better relations and improved international cooperation. Because the fact is, American is not going to be the biggest economy in the world in just a few years, we no longer control the critical resources like we used to, and in general we do not have the stature we once did. We need to adapt to that new reality rather than simply denying it and sticking our head in the sand.

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Re: ObamaCare (+Tangents Evolution, Religion, & Global Warmi

Postby DoingHomework » Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:02 am

Eagle wrote:My goal was to discuss these issues and get 300 replies. :clap:


I suspected this. You are a shill for some organization and you've met your quota. Good for you. But I hope you realize you've done far more damage to your cause than you can imagine. The search engines will find these posts. People will read them and conclude that the position you are arguing is just vicious attacks without merit. Many of them will realize that the whole right wing you represent is full of it and just vote for Barack Obama. Thank you for that.

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Re: ObamaCare (+Tangents Evolution, Religion, & Global Warmi

Postby VinTek » Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:11 am

Eagle wrote:
Conservatives are quite embarrassed by this performance, so they have invented a cover story: The Democratic Congress did it. Nice try. But for 12 of the 20 years the Congress was not Democratic..


Okay so assuming the data is true let’s say conservatives are 60% responsible and liberals are 40% responsible for that time period (Reagan/Bush). 5 Trillion added to the debt was under Democratic majority leadership. The honor of the tipping point of 100% still belongs to President Obama. What a legacy.

Sorry VinTek that's all I got.

That's because you're being willfully blind. If you look at the graph, Obama is responsible for 15% of the deficit problem (as measured against GDP). And much of that 15% is due to tax cuts he didn't implement and wars that he didn't start. I'll cut you some slack on the cost of the wars; 9/11 did happen and we did have to do something about it, although I don't think we did an optimal job at it. But seriously, if 85% of our deficit problem came from Republican policies, you actually want to go back to those policies and believe that things will get better?

Eagle wrote:Frankly I’m tired of this thread. |( More pointedly because I feel I’m the only conservative representative (handling over 200+ replies is becoming to cumbersome) and because I have a family/job to consider. We have made it to the 300 replies (is this a thread record?) mark (nearly 28% or 84 mine) and nearly 2800 views. My goal was to discuss these issues and get 300 replies. :clap:

You got over 300 replies because you kept changing the subject whenever the facts turned against you. And you're not the only conservative representative on the board. You're simply the only conservative representative who cherry-pick facts to support your contentions, ignores facts contradicting your positions and then takes flight to another topic when things get tough. It really hurts your credibility. I like you, Eagle. I think you're a good guy and well-intentioned. But you really need to be more open-minded.

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Re: ObamaCare (+Tangents Evolution, Religion, & Global Warmi

Postby Eagle » Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:15 am

kaitlyn142 wrote:I declare the liberal side won!


One word: November. I hope and pray you are wrong.

DoingHomework wrote:
Eagle wrote:My goal was to discuss these issues and get 300 replies. :clap:


I suspected this. You are a shill for some organization and you've met your quota. Good for you. But I hope you realize you've done far more damage to your cause than you can imagine.


I'll admit I looked up the word shill. No, I wasn't paid to do anything. And I'm glad to say I din't profit from this lol. It was just a personal goal after looking at the length of replies through all the various threads. Once again, it was great fun. Good luck and great success to you all!
~ Eagle
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Re: ObamaCare (+Tangents Evolution, Religion, & Global Warmi

Postby Jethro » Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:17 am

DoingHomework wrote:When will these numbskulls learn...tax cuts do not increase government revenue. I like them as much as the next rich guy, but they just don't help the government finances. If your family were deep in debt would you be trying to cut your salary to help the situation?
I think this is the perfect quote to end this thread on.
If life gives you tomatoes, make pico de gallo.


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