Manage Your Finances Like a Professional Gambler: Small Things Add Up
Published on - January 4th, 2007 (by J.D. Roth) Here’s a guest entry from Tynan. This is the first of a series of posts about how a professional gambler looks at money. Look for additional installments in coming weeks.
I was eighteen, and a freshman in college. For the past few years I’d been making a few hundred dollars a month selling Palm Pilots on eBay. It was a lot of money for a teenager with no real expenses, but of course I spent it all. My knowledge of personal finance was fuzzy at best. Naturally I squandered any money I made.
Then, through a strange series of events, I became a professional gambler. It happened fast, and soon my “studies” were being neglected for long nights of blackjack, roulette, and video poker. Eventually I dropped out of school to make serious money, and thus began my real financial education.
There are a lot of analogs between gambling and real life finance, which should come as no surprise since gambling is simply the bizarre intersection of fun and finance. I learned more about personal finance, discipline, and math during my six years as a professional gambler than any other period of my life.
My hope is that through this series you’ll receive the same education, without the inconvenience of making piles of money.
When a gambler plays a game, he receives a payout. A 100% payout is what he’d get from a perfectly even game like flipping a coin. No one has an advantage. A 99% payout means that the gambler will lose, on average, 1% of what he bets. A 101% payout means that the gambler will earn 1% on what he bets. This may sound like a slight amount, but when betting tens of millions of dollars a year, that 2% spread between 99% and 101% represents the difference between going broke and living very comfortably.
As a gambler, I would implement changes to my playing habits. Each alteration might only increase my payout by .05%, but each .05% pushed me closer to the promised land of 101%. When I understood this concept, I realized that life is the same way. Either your spending habits are building your wealth or bleeding it — just like gambling.
For example, do you take money out of an ATM every week? If you do, that’s costing you an average of $2.91 per week (according to Bankrate). People don’t feel good emotionally taking out $160 at once instead of $40 a week, but that emotion has nothing to do with the real financial costs associated with the extra ATM fees. This irrational emotion is exactly what fuels casinos.
The profit in switching to a monthly withdrawal schedule is $104.76 ($2.91 * 3 * 12 ) per year. That negative emotion some people have is costing them $104.76 per year.
What about tipping 25% instead of 15%? If you’re an average American, you’re spending an additional $440 per year to feel generous. I’m not saying it’s not worth it — I’m just saying that it’s costing you.
Switching a credit card balance from 25% APR to a newly opened 10% APR card can save $1250 on a $5000 balance.
We ignore these habits and expenses on a daily basis, but as a professional gambler, small improvements in our habits are the difference between making a living and going bust. I learned my lessons fast and was a successful gambler for six years.
In real life, if we pay attention to our small habits and adjust them, they too can make a big difference. I’ve listed three changes that an average person could make. The benefit over ten years? Almost $18k — that’s big.
Look for future installments from Tynan in the weeks ahead.
GRS is committed to helping our readers save and achieve your financial goals.Savings interest rates may be low, but that’s all the more reason to shop for the best rate.Find the highest savings interest rate from Ally Bank, Capital One 360, Everbank, and more.
This article is about Odds and Ends
Disclaimer: This content is not provided or commissioned by American Express. Opinions expressed here are author's alone, not those of American Express, and have not been reviewed, approved or otherwise endorsed by American Express. This site may be compensated through American Express Affiliate Program.
Discover is a paid advertiser of this site. Reasonable efforts are made to maintain accurate information. See the Discover online credit card application for full terms and conditions on offers and rewards.
SEARCH FOR RECENT ARTICLES



I’d also add…….
Just pay yourself first. Then everything else will take care of itself!
BTW – I never knew you could get a 101% payout in gambling. Interesting.
- Bryan
http://www.BryanCFleming.com
loading....
Pro gambling? Interesting. Look forward to more from Tynan.
loading....
This entry was a bit light on content, but I look forward to future entries by Tyran. It sounds like he might have an interesting take on some personal finance subjects. And by comparing personal finance topics to gambling topics, he might make something set in that otherwise we would have ignored.
loading....
Taking out a month’s worth of cash might not be cost-effective for everyone. Knowing that I have cash on hand would probably make me spend more simply because it’s there and readily available. It’s a psychological thing. My friends in France get paid only once a month, and they’re always complaining about how hard it is to budget so that they don’t spend it all before the next paycheck. They’re jealous that I get paid every two weeks, which they feel would help them spend more responsibly. I think the same reasoning applies to ATMs.
loading....
Manage money like a gambler…
Personal-finance site Get Rich Slowly doles out a few money-management tips from a professional gambler. The upshot? Small things add up. As a gambler, I would implement changes to my playing habits. Each alteration might only increase my payout……
loading....
“BTW – I never knew you could get a 101% payout in gambling. Interesting.”
As someone who has dabbled in sports betting (always use a betting exchange, never a normal bookmaker), I know this is possible, and as Tynan says it’s absolutely a key point. What you need to do is find opportunities where the odds are too generous for the real probability of an event occurring. To use the coin toss example, if it was a fair coin but somebody offered you odds of 2/1 on heads, you could statistically guarantee a profit by backing heads every time, since you’d have roughly the same number of wins and losses, but each win would pay out twice the amount of each loss. The gambling terminology for this is ‘value’, and value is just as important in finance as in gambling (i.e. if someone offered you Berkshire Hathaway stock at $1 a share, you’d jump at it). On Betfair, there are regular occurrences of horses being backed at 1000/1 during the race when they look out of it, only to have a strong finish and win.
Having said all that, you will not find value in a casino, since the odds for any outcome are a question of mathematical certainty, not judgment – and it’s poor judgment on the opposing side of a bet that lets you find value.
loading....
Dude, what you say about tipping is just silly. We don’t tip 20-25% simply to “feel generous” but rather because hardworking people who are serving us food (and who have to tip out to the unseen servers who wash our dishes and clean our table, etc.) depend upon this money. Would you tell our bosses to skimp us to save their own money? Please, grow a conscience.
loading....
My mother told me, “if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all”. But taking financial advice from a “professional” gambler is utterly ridiculous. Anyone with a rudimentary understanding of odds theory knows gambling is for losers. Gamblers personify a “get rich quick” mentality, which is the opposite of what this site is all about. Just from the comments above (“interesting”), you can see the evil “how can I make a fast buck?” oozing out of some of your readers. Gambling is the most certain way to end being psychologically scarred and financially broke. A better understanding of how the odds are stacked against us by the house is worth obtaining. But the implied challenge that the house can be beat results in desperate attempts that get us nowhere.
loading....
It seems even more cost effective to switch to a bank or credit union without ATM fees and finding an ATM that is free for your new account.
On tipping, if you are really trying to save money, eating out less is going to save a ton more than reducing your tips to the minimum.
loading....
Curious as to your methods. Card counting at blackjack and careful slot machine payout choice I can see, but how did you play roulette as a +EV game? Are you counting the value of comps received as part of your win? I tend to lump all three as pricey forms of entertainment that I just pass by on the way to the casino’s (nonvideo) poker room.
loading....
Taking financial advice from a “professional” gambler is utterly ridiculous.
While I can certainly understand this point of view, I’ve learned that I can get valuable insight from unlikely sources. Even if I don’t agree with a person’s viewpoints, I can often derive something from his methods. For example, I think Steve Pavlina‘s “psychic energy” stuff is hogwash, yet I find the principles he outlines to be fascinating and effective. Or, as I tell many people, Dave Ramsey’s personal finance philosophy is founded on Christianity, but most of his techniques are valuable for everyone, Muslim, Christian, or atheist alike.
I’m never going to promote gambling as anything other than entertainment (and costly entertainment at that), but I, for one, am eager to see what Tynan has to say in the future!
loading....
Not to mention that the differences between “gambling” and “investing in stocks” boil down essentially to issues of legality. If Tynan had made his living as a speculative investor you’d probably hear no objections!
loading....
Taking financial advice from a gambler is far from ridiculous. If he’s been doing it for a while, it’s obvious he’s been succesful. I assume he’s moved to a game that plays against others rather than the house b/c all of those have negative expected values. This means that his income is completely dependent on a strong understanding of statistics and long-term benefits.
That sounds like someone who can give solid financial advice.
loading....
I have to agree, that tipping %15 instead of %20-%25 is a really shady move. As a former server, I know very well that those nickels and dimes add up. It’s a crappy system, but if you don’t want to play in it, don’t eat out. Jerk.
loading....
This reminds me of lessons I took from being addicted to a MMORPG, specifically the PvP of Dark Age of Camelot. The top players pour a massive amount time into building ‘uber suits’ which to casual players seem tedious and unproductive. But an extra 10 strength here, +4% to spell duraction there and so on adds up and keeps the power-gamers pwning noobs!
But honestly, I did learn something from playing, small things add up and they’re the best/easiest/first place to start. Most refuse to do even the simple stuff (like buying purple ROG gear for their bg toons) and end up losing more than winning, much like personal finance. Often it’s not your gameplay/job, it’s all the other factors =)
loading....
Hey guys – thanks for reading my article and taking the time to comment on it. A few points that have been raised that I should have made more clear.
1 – Why has tipping been inflated? 15% used to be the standard, and now it’s 20-25%. The thing is, restaurant prices have gone up with inflation, so keeping a steady 15% tip should be pacing inflation. If a waiter does an excellent job, I tip more, but raising the standard tip from 15% to 20% has no economic basis.
2 – People who discredit professional gambling are simply naive. I would argue that having such a closed view on making money is in direct opposition to the spirit of entrepreneurship. The fact is that on roads less traveled by, there is a lot more money to be made because there’s less competition. During my six years as a professional gambler I made hundreds of thousands of dollars every year, and worked an average of 15 hours a week.
If you’d like to read more about how I became a professional gambler, check out the article on my blog.
Tynan
loading....
I always take out cash on a monthly basis. Based on my budget I know what out of pocket expenses I will have (mainly just bus fares and the very occasional meal) plus my budgeted entertainment expenses. That cash is in my pocket from the day after I get paid and that is all I ever spend in cash that month.
loading....
I think this guy’s full of it…heck, just take a look at his site! While I agree w/ JD in thinking that perhaps some of his concepts are decent, someone who drops out of school to become a gambler, then a rapper is definitely not someone I’d think to take advice from. His articles seem ficticious (or sponsored as in the link he provides above for his gambling venture).
I’m interested to see the next article, but only because it’s a part of this site.
loading....
I really enjoyed this article.
I have been cleaning up finances for an estate, and I noticed lots of nickle and dime expenses that would have accumulated well over 40 years.
And for tipping, the gambler just wants us to make an educated purchase of their services. I tip 20% because I want to, but I pull out $300 at a time from the ATM because of the fees. It is a smarter thing to do if you will spend the same amount of money.
loading....
Wesley – All of my stories are completely real. I don’t ever exaggerate, so I resent the assumption.
The Casino On Net link is a sponsored link which I chose because it is by far the most reputable casino. You’d think that on a financial blog readers would be particularly supportive of people earning money from their hobbies (and I think most readers probably are…)
I hope you enjoy the next article.
Tynan
loading....
Just read the post Tynan cited above. Sorry, but I can’t lend any credence to a gambler who considers any form of a to be mathematically rational.
loading....
[...] Hey everyone… one of my favorite sites for personal finance is a site called “Get Rich Slowly”. I just wrote an article for them, which was published today and also featured on Lifehacker. You can read the article here, and make sure to check out some of his other articles as well… lots of good stuff there. Read These Related Posts: [...]
loading....
This was a good article, but I think I missed something regarding the ATM figures.
The ATM fees for taking out $40 a week add up to $151.32 ($2.91 * 52-weeks). Changing to a monthly withdrawal system drops that number down to $34.92 ($2.91 * 12-months). This results in a “profit” of $116.40, not $104.76.
Did I miss something? Why did Tynan use the formula “$2.91 * 3 * 12″ to determine this profit margin? All that formula says to me is that you spent $104.76 on ATM fees over three years.
Please help me understand.
And I agree with what GG said: switching to a local credit union is a great option because they have fee-free ATMs. As an added bonus, since many credit unions “network” with each other, finding an ATM is hardly an issue and you never have to worry about fees.
loading....
Oops — the words “Martingale system” got trimmed out of my post before the Wikipedia link.
loading....
Jason, you’re right. 2.91 x 3 x 12 means ATM FEE x Difference in times per month (4-1) x 12 months.
I was approximating 4 weeks per month, but your method is, of course, more accurate.
Tynan
loading....
Sorry, he sounds kind of dogey. The “Martingale System” system is crap (if it wasn’t obvious.)
The point that the little expenses add up to a lot is very important though.
loading....
Sigh… if you read the article you’d find that I tried the martingale system before I knew about gambling, and quickly realized that it was a disaster. Its only significance to me is that it was my introduction to gambling. I would never recommend that anyone use the martingale system.
loading....
@Tyan
Thanks!
Cheers!
loading....
T: The only part of the explanatory article on your blog in which you go into any specifics is the part in which you use a Martingale strategy. Insofar as we then fast-forward to your dropping out of college and then spend six years gambling with this self-designed but undescribed method, there is no strong impression that you broke with the Martingale method, only perhaps that you came up with a new application of it. At least one other reader came to that assumption (see above).
To counter this impression, would you consider fleshing out these 6 years in the level of detail you use in describing the first few days of your gambling career? This might better distinguish the change in method to which you allude briefly.
loading....
“Professional Gamblers” don’t play roulette or video poker. The only way to get a true, lasting, mathematical advantage over a casino is to count cards in blackjack. Period. End of discussion. Without card counting, you can expect a 100% payoff from an odds bet on the craps table, but that needs to be paired with a regular bet with a negative expected value. The mathematics behind it all have been done to death. There is a .00000000001% chance that you thought you had a system and somehow lucked your way through it for a few years without going broke, or a 99%+ chance that you’re telling stories.
loading....
From your website – “There’s a lot of debate over whether or not the Double Martingale System has a flaw or not.”
There is absolutely zero debate. Any Martingale system, requires an infinite bankroll, infinite time, and most importantly … wait for it … a table without limits. This final condition can never be met. This is the very reason that casinos have table maximums. Why else would they restrict your gaming?
I’m also confused on how you talk about buying cars and planes on your website, and mention in the next paragraph that your world collapsed when you lost $5,000.
If you’re a professional gambler, I’m a professional pilot. I flew a plane, twice actually, with my friend who is a flight instructor. Would you take advice from me about aeronautics?
loading....
I think I am not risky enough in poker to make an money in personal finance. I think I am more aggresive in my investments (oddly).
loading....
[...] Get Rich Slowly » Manage Your Finances Like a Professional Gambler: Small Things Add Up (tags: finance lifehack) [...]
loading....
Kinda rude to bring up “overtipping” someone who depends on those tips to live without mentioning eating at home as an option.
Really… why not just not tip at all?
“I’m just saying that it’s costing you.”
Rude.
Judging tips by % is for rich stingy old people. Tip by service.
loading....
Seconding the commenters above who suggested the bold move of picking a bank with convenient ATMs so you don’t *have* to pay fees.
Aside from vacations, I haven’t paid an ATM fee in the entire time I’ve had a bank account- and my main account isn’t even at a credit union.
loading....
Regarding Ty’s system, I can verify for certain that it did indeed work. I worked with him for about a year on it and also made my living from working with him.
I’d always had some doubt about the legality of it all, but it was in no way the Martingale system mentioned above.
I made a promise when we started that I would never disclose details of the system, so you’ll have to ask him yourself if you want specifics.
loading....
I agree with D and alejandra, it does seem rude, and tipping a larger amount to the waiter/ess that is being paid below minimum wage is the proper thing to do. If you are going to eat out, that tip better be in your budget to. If you can’t afford to tip, then don’t eat out.
loading....
It sounds like he’s playing poker from the phone call from his mother. Is that right Tynan?
It’s not an easy life, but its very possible to learn to get a middle class salary if you chase good games all the time in poker. There is an entire group of people who do it both on online poker rooms and in person in Vegas (during trade shows) and elsewhere around the country.
I’m not talking tournament poker, although many people do that too. I’m talking about “ring game” poker, which is 10 guys sitting around a table, with a dealer raking the pot. If you play at a reasonable limit, and manage your money well, you can survive, and even live decently like this.
The issues with the lifestyle:
1. You have to play when the game is. With the online people, that’s most of the day. With the Real Lifers, its odd hours from the rest of society
2. If you’re not playing, you’re not making money. Like many businesses that require direct application of your skills, gambling only pays when you’re doing it.
3. It takes years before your expenses are tax deductable. This is huge. You have to pay all your expenses with pretax money for the first 3 years you’re in business. For people barely not making it, this really hurts.
4. In many places (but not all), you are playing against at least one person who should not be gambling with the money they are. (This alone has really curtailed my willingness to play cards many places).
–Michael
loading....
Every waitperson I’ve ever met feels entitled to generous tips. My response is always, “Get a better job.” I won’t even tip 15% unless the service is sensational. It’s not my problem you work a crummy job.
loading....
Re: tipping – what’s wrong with you people?
He’s giving tips about saving money, not saying to bilk service people out of tips they deserve. You’re the ones being rude here – the expectation for tips is 15-20% for standard service, therefore if you follow his pointers and pay that instead of more unless you get exceptional service, you’re not shorting a waiter…it’s what they expect, and what you should expect to budget to eat out.
I know lots of you are just anxious to be rude online, but find a better target.
loading....
[...] Dit is interessant om eens door te nemen: Manage Your Finances Like a Professional Gambler: Small Things Add Up [...]
loading....
It never stops to amaze me how much the average American DOES NOT know about money. The few tips Tyran gave is something every adult should know… something every parent should teach their kids with when they receive their first piggy bank.
Note that I said “know”, not “follow”. As long as you are fully aware of what tipping another 10% means to your wallet–and you still choose to do it–it’s fine.
On ATM: my bank has no monthly fee and doesn’t charge me any transaction fee for using one of their ATMs. Hence, as long as I’m not using other bank’s ATM, I’m actually better off drawing money weekly instead of monthly. The benefits are twofold: I earn some interest on the money I left in the account, since interest is calculated daily. Secondly, by not drawing the money in lump sum, I have a lower risk of losing the money to theft/lost wallet/feeling like a big spender. Personally, having a large stash of cash in my wallet makes me less conscious about my spending. YMMV.
On credit card: the rule of thumb for credit card usage is pay off the balance every month before it’s due, period. As long as you pay it off, it doesn’t matter if it’s 5% APR or 35% APR, because the credit card company won’t see a cent of the interest they’re so eager to charge. Also, find a card with cash-back, or with rewards you’ll use regularly. Preferably a no-fee card, unless the extra reward you’ll earn on the for-fee card will exceed the annual fee–which depends on how much you put on your credit card.
loading....
I’m a semi-professional gambler with a very strong understanding of the math behind what I do.
I play poker, that’s where the money is. I also started out clearing casino bonuses.
One thing I must say though is that TYNAN WAS NEVER A PROFESSIONAL GAMBLER. He was (and is) foolish, thinking that he could turn a -EV wager into a +EV wager through changing is bet sizes. This is not possible. It is possible to run well for a long period of time and still be up money, but a guy saying he quit school to play internet roulette… well he’s not a mathemetician, let’s just say that.
Money can be made through bonus clearing though for sure, but he doesn’t talk much about that, instead acting like it’s a betting “system.”
-EV is -EV. I’ll bet you guys $1k straight up that whatever betting system you came up with is -EV. Easy, free money.
I think you’re probably just telling stories though.
loading....
Not unless you find a hole in the Internet gambling casino site (and get better odds)…
loading....
He obviously was bonus-whoring. Duh.
loading....
Interesting take on things, I’m looking forward to reading more in the future.
loading....
He was not obviously bonus whoring. Read his entries about gambling, he mentions some secret system and whatever else. Not bonus whoring.
A secret system that can make -EV +EV, incredible!
loading....
I have been reading Tynan’s blog for a little while now, so there is a couple things that I think you should know about him:
- First is that he seems to dedicate himself completely to whatever it is he decides to do. That explains why he dropped out of college to become a professional gambler. Although he may have initially started gambling with dreams of getting rich quick, he took the time to learn the games and to become a master. I believe that some games are set up to have a house advantage against a basic strategy. If you take the time to learn a complex strategy (which very few people do), then it is possible to gain the advantage.
- The second thing that you should know about Tynan is that he is not going to give you his secret. There seems to be some provoking to make him prove himself, but he’s been asked before and he’s not going to tell.
- On a side note, I did some calculations over the Summer on the expected return from the Martingale strategy. Your overall expected return from the stategy remains the same, but it postpones your losses. Although you will win more often, when you lose, you will lose big. That is why that strategy does not work.
loading....
[...] – Money-management tips from a former professional gambler* is worth a read, if only because it reinforces what I learned from Your Money or Your Life (best finance book ever)– Mindfulness is the key, even in matters financial. Hell, if that’s true, and if it’s also true that mindfulness can help even people with nasty eating-problems, then maybe mindfulness is the answer to everything! (Yes, I’m being snarky. Shoot me.) [...]
loading....
Don’t make the blanket assumption that paying a credit card balance off every month results in no fees. I have read rumors that some affiliation credit cards have recently zeroed their “grace periods” – presumably meaning you would start paying finance charges immediately upon purchase.
Obviously, one should check their statements for fees they don’t understand. If any of my credit card companies were to make such a change, I would cancel the account immediately.
loading....