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“Why is it that giving money is good?” Plonkee asked in the newly-revived Get Rich Slowly forums. Brad replied citing a December 2006 article from the New York Times Magazine: “What should a billionaire give — and what should you?” (If this is behind a paywall for you, try this mirror.)

In this essay, philosopher Peter Singer discusses the magnitude of recent donations from the two richest men in the world: Warren Buffet contributed $37 billion to charitable foundations, and Bill and Melinda Gates gave $30 billion. What does this mean?
Philanthropy on this scale raises many ethical questions: Why are the people who are giving doing so? Does it do any good? Should we praise them for giving so much or criticize them for not giving still more? Is it troubling that such momentous decisions are made by a few extremely wealthy individuals? And how do our judgments about them reflect on our own way of living?
I expected Singer to pounce on rich men like Gates and Buffet, to criticize them for an unethical road to riches. Instead he writes:
Sniping tells us more about the attackers than the attacked. Giving away large sums, rather than spending the money on corporate advertising or developing new products, is not a sensible strategy for increasing personal wealth.
Singer philosophizes about our moral obligation to help the poor, and explores whether this is properly the role of the government or of the individual. He concludes that philanthropy is best left to the individual.
Unconstrained by diplomatic considerations or the desire to swing votes at the United Nations, private donors can more easily avoid dealing with corrupt or wasteful governments. They can go directly into the field, working with local villages and grass-roots organizations. Nor are philanthropists beholden to lobbyists.
The rich should give, Singer decides — the real question is, “How much should they give?” He compares Gates to the world’s sixth-richest man: Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen. Gates is worth $53 billion. Allen has $16 billion. Gates has donated 35 percent of his wealth to charitable causes; Allen has donated 5 percent. Each has indulged in seemingly obscene luxuries. Gates owns a 66,000-square-foot house in Seattle — Allen owns a 413-foot yacht that carries two helicopters and a submarine. In what way should we judge these men? Should we judge them at all?

As a comparison, Singer cites Zell Kravinsky. In his mid-40s, Kravinsky gave away most of his $45 million real estate fortune to medical charities. Then he donated a kidney to a stranger. “Kravinsky says that the hard part is not giving away the first $45 million but the last $10,000, when you have to live so cheaply that you can’t function in the business world.” This is noble, Singer writes, but should such nobility cause us to condemn the actions of men like Gates and Buffett?
Even if Buffett left each of his three children a million dollars each, he would still have given away more than 99.99 percent of his wealth. When someone does that much — especially in a society in which the norm is to leave most of your wealth to your children — it is better to praise them than to cavil about the extra few hundred thousand dollars they might have given.
Based on all of this (and more — it’s a long article), Singer performs a thought experiment: How much should the rich donate in order to ensure that the poor have a decent chance at life? His conclusions:
- The top 0.01 percent of U.S. taxpayers — 14,400 people earning more than $5,000,000 — ought to donate 33% of their income.
- The rest of the top 0.1 percent of U.S. taxpayers — 129,600 people earning a minimum of $1.1 million/year — ought to donate 25% of their income.
- The top 0.5 percent of U.S. taxpayers — 474,900 people earning at least $407,000 — ought to give 20% of their earnings.
- The rest of the top one percent — 719,900 taxpayers earning at least $276,000 — should donate 15%.
- The rest of the top 10 percent — nearly 13 million taxpayers who earn an more than $92,000 — should give 10%.
“You could spend a long time debating whether the fractions of income I have suggested for donation constitute the fairest possible scheme,” Singer writes. That’s not his point. He’s trying to demonstrate that these levels of charity are unlikely to impose hardship on those who make the contributions. He says that the rich in other countries should share the burden. Ultimately he believes that “it should be seen as a serious moral failure when those with ample income do not do their fair share toward relieving global poverty.”
This article makes several other notable points. Plonkee recently wrote at her site that atheists should tithe. Singer has something to say about this, too:
Interestingly, neither Gates nor Buffett seems motivated by the possibility of being rewarded in heaven for his good deeds on earth. Gates told a Time interviewer, “There’s a lot more I could be doing on a Sunday morning” than going to church. Put them together with Andrew Carnegie, famous for his freethinking, and three of the four greatest American philanthropists have been atheists or agnostics. (The exception is John D. Rockefeller.) In a country in which 96 percent of the population say they believe in a supreme being, that’s a striking fact.
Though Singer strays dangerously close to an irrelevant “moral superiority of atheists” argument here, it’s possible to derive a larger point: philanthropy is not the exclusive domain of a specific creed or set of beliefs. Altruism is a larger ideal, one that seems to be intrinsic in most ideologies (Ayn Rand aside).
The article also features a number of quotes from Warren Buffett, each of which elevates him further in my eyes. (As you know, he’s one of my financial heroes.) For example, Buffett acknowledges that his success is largely a product of the time and place in which he lives. His financial acumen would be useless under other circumstances.
“If you stick me down in the middle of Bangladesh or Peru,” he said, “you’ll find out how much this talent is going to produce in the wrong kind of soil.”
I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t do enough charitable giving. For too long, I’ve been my own favorite charity. But as my situation improves, as I eliminate my debt and fund my retirement, philanthropy is going to take on greater importance in my life. For more information on this subject, please explore the following links:
- The charity navigator is “America’s premier charity evaluator”. Many people I trust recommend this for finding charities that are worth supporting. (I plan to review the charity navigator fully sometime soon.)
- Two charities I see praised often are Oxfam and Direct Relief International.
- At Money Smart Life, Ben has some simple strategies for donating as you shop.
- Free Money Finance, an openly Christian money-blogger, has an extensive selection of articles on The Bible and money. (In fact, he posts a new article on the subject every Sunday.)
- Trent at The Simple Dollar urges his readers to put their donations where they count.
- Some thoughts on the contrast between the ideals of Peter Singer and Ayn Rand.
All of this is interesting as a philosophical discussion, but what does it mean to you and me? Does it mean anything? How do we account for charitable giving in our daily lives?
Obviously, each of us is going to have “pet” causes to which we contribute. Singer’s definition of charity probably wouldn’t extend to some of the organizations to which I give money. (I contribute regularly to the National Trust for Historic Preservation, the Oregon Historical Society, and to the local classical music station.) My wife supports OSPIRG and public radio.
Where do these fit into Singer’s notion of philanthropy?
How does one decide which charities are worth supporting? Moreover, how do we find a balance between supporting charities with money and supporting them with time? For many organizations, time is the more valuable of the two. And even people without disposable income can find time to volunteer for causes they believe in.
[New York Times Magazine: What should a billionaire give — and what should you?]


April 11th, 2007 at 5:43 am
It is easy to say that some one else should give, but I is much more important to me how much I give.
I know you see someone and see that if they just gave 1/2 a percent more they could give more than I have ever made. But I don’t sleep better knowing Gates gave billions. I know that when I have done my part I have done the right thing.
April 11th, 2007 at 7:21 am
I would be more than willing to donate some of my earnings to the poor and needy if the Government didn’t already tax me 30% (federal & state)and give it away for me.
In my mind, I am already giving my 10-15% to charity which is the same or more than Singer suggests that someone making over 100k a year give away.
April 11th, 2007 at 7:27 am
This article is excellent. I agree with Singer’s conclusions. I believe that individuals are able to help the world much more efficiently than the government. I am fairly conservative not because I am greedy and want to keep all of my money but because I feel that giving the government my money to reallocate for the common good doesn’t work.
April 11th, 2007 at 7:40 am
To the “how much is enough to give” question… Our answer to this is simply “more.” When my wife and I got married we had a baseline percentage of our income that we wanted to give away. We also set the goal that every year that would increase that percentage. It takes some discipline, but there we have a lot of joy in actively working against our tenancies to be selfish, greedy, or materialistic.
The latest cause we’re excited about giving to is the International Justice Mission http://www.imj.org. Dedicated to freeing people worldwide from oppression and slavery.
April 11th, 2007 at 7:43 am
April 11th, 2007 at 7:50 am
Thanks for the mention JD. I have the same problem as you, I don’t do enough charitable giving but I’m working on different ways that I can give back.
April 11th, 2007 at 8:07 am
Doc, most of that 30 percent you cite in taxes does not go to support the poor and needy. Take a look at where your tax dollars go; I think you’ll be surprised.
Furthermore, Singer’s mainly talking about the truly poor and needy in developing countries, not the US where we at least have some systems in place to support the poor. Thirty thousand children die every day around the world due to avoidable poverty-related causes. That’s where Singer believes our donations should be going, although he’s not prescriptive on that subject.
April 11th, 2007 at 8:16 am
How your federal taxes are spent
April 11th, 2007 at 8:22 am
Thank you for paying your taxes and paying my salary.
I wholeheartedly believe in private charity. Gates and Co does more to alleviate suffering in Africa than any governmental entity. What Buffett and Gates are doing is reminiscient of Carnegie and Rockefeller.
It makes sense for individuals to give. We have a free market system that lets some very talented folks make ludicrous sums of money. Disregarding right or wrong, if these folks did not put back into the system, then the system would collapse. You let the wealth builders build, and then they take a portion for themselves, but return a much larger sum to the general populace than we otherwise could have done.
Problems abound when a few rotten apples spoil it. That, and the Jones-Factor
April 11th, 2007 at 8:26 am
Thanks for the link to the charity navigator. I’m happy to see that the charity I give to most often has four stars.
I’m a tither, myself. I can’t always give ten percent, but I always try to give something, on the belief that God won’t allow me to starve or miss a crucial bill payment for doing my part to help out the less fortunate, which has yet to happen. I often feel like I am one of the less fortunate, but once I start counting my blessings I realize how comparatively well-off I am, despite all of the debt I’m still carrying.
April 11th, 2007 at 8:40 am
I’m looking specifically at the comparison between Gates and Allen’s giving, and the topic of whether anyone should judge them.
No one should judge them. See Matthew 7:1-3. God will take care of that.
April 11th, 2007 at 8:43 am
How many people were employed building Gate’s mansion or Allen’s yacht? That money wasn’t just thrown away, a lot of people are grateful for those jobs.
April 11th, 2007 at 8:56 am
If you help out in poor nations, is there a chance you are drawing out the inevitable problems with overpopulation or populating places that are not really habitable?
April 11th, 2007 at 9:07 am
As for judging others: I’ve learned that, for the most part, it’s folly to judge what others do with money. You can say, “I don’t think I would do it that way,” and that’s fine, but just as I don’t want somebody saying, “I can’t believe J.D. doesn’t give more to charity” or “I can’t believe that J.D. spends so much on comic books”, I’m not going to condemn Allen, Gates, or Buffett for what they choose to do with their riches, especially if their actions are not directly harming somebody. (I don’t believe that harm through inaction is the same thing.)
Now, judging people because they fritter away their millions on fast cars and loose women? That’s another matter. I’ll mock them all day long!
April 11th, 2007 at 9:12 am
I’m a huge fan of giving. It keeps you grounded and focused on other people instead of yourself. Remembering that it’s really about people and not money is really important.
-limeade
April 11th, 2007 at 9:14 am
…or loose men!
April 11th, 2007 at 9:24 am
I think we as Americans are more overstimulated than a culture has ever been. As a result, our media and thoughs are focused on the extreme poles of any topic. (Man am I glad I know who Anna Nicoles babys daddy is!). And we are very comfortable telling others how they should live with no inclination to look in the mirror.
I recently came back from central america and once again was awestruck. These cultures are poor however, they are incredible giving, hardworking and functional. While down there you really understand you can make a huge impact on someones life with relaively little by US standards. However, the first step to help for most is to realize our own materialistic ways and aknowledge that the kid in Haiti without an IPod is probably just as happy as anyone in the states.
Do consider doing what you can close to home or abroad for no other reason than to help another person. I am not religious, however I do believe the attitude of giving does bring charity on you.
April 11th, 2007 at 9:26 am
This is an interesting discussion about a question that could easily be described as perverse. Why do Bill Gates and Warren Buffet have so much money is the first place? Is there something wrong with a system where a few individuals have such obscene wealth? Many of the super-wealthy will give back. But the majority of them will not.
Why do we continue to support a system that provides for such absurd disparities in income and wealth? That is the fundamental question. Asking how much (of a percentage of their net worth) wealthy individuals should give back is an exercise in decadence. I can’t help but see the whole thing as patently ridiculous.
April 11th, 2007 at 9:45 am
“If you help out in poor nations, is there a chance you are drawing out the inevitable problems with overpopulation”
If you want to cure overpopulation problems, you need to educate people. If you look at every westernized nation, the more people are educated, the lower the birth rate. Places like Germany and Sweden are experiencing population reductions because people have so few children.
So bringing food, education, birth control, etc to poor nations won’t cause a population explosion due to better living conditions, it’s much more likely to help combat the problems of overpopulation in the first place, by reducing birth rates.
April 11th, 2007 at 9:57 am
Great post!
My husband and I started tithing a few years ago. I think of it as our “schedule T” since we use a gross income figure from our tax returns, subtract all the taxes we pay, add some benefits, and it gives us a number for the following year. You can read about this in more detail at http://www.moneychangesthings.blogspot.com
It’s a great system, because it fixes charitable giving in your life as a line item in your budget, not just a this-would-be-nice category.
April 11th, 2007 at 10:46 am
In many ways, giving really helps not only the receiver but the donor also. It feels good that you are doing something that will help others, and it isn’t just giving money either. Whether it’s for charity or even helping your friend move, it always makes you and everyone better off.
My Own Millions Blog
April 11th, 2007 at 10:50 am
I am continually astonished at how many people accept the Gates “philanthropy” story at face value. There is much that people do not know about this situation.
Bill Gates has never given one penny of cash to any charity. His “philanthropy” consists solely of one huge transfer of Microsoft stocks to the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. From there, the Foundation does not give cash to charities, it loans them MSFT stock, which they are allowed to invest for the duration of the “grant” and they must return it at the end. BillG is loaning them money which they can invest and keep the interest, but the big public announcements of millions or billions of dollars of grants is nothing but hype.
In return for this phony “grant,” BillG demands membership on the board of the charity. This is not philanthropy, this is assimilation of charities into his Foundation.
Furthermore, the massive weight of the Foundation, now combined with Buffet’s contribution, has created a monopoly amongst charities. No other charity can hope to fund any activities without aligning their efforts with the Foundation. The world will be remade in BillG’s image.
But there are even more reasons to loathe BillG’s phony philanthropy. Currently the Foundation’s primary efforts are to distribute AIDS drugs in third world countries. Nobody noticed that BillG has been quietly selling massive blocks of MSFT stock and purchasing major stakes in big pharmaceutical companies.. the very same companies that will profit from selling AIDS drugs to countries that cannot afford them. BillG is a drug pusher, the first hit is always free.
Ultimately, there is one big question about BillG’s “philanthropy.” It could not happen except for the massive amounts of money sucked out of the wallets of ordinary individuals, corporations, goverments, schools, etc. by Microsoft’s illegal monopoly. What charitable acts could WE have done with those billions of dollars, if they had remained in OUR wallets?
April 11th, 2007 at 10:53 am
There is a very strong arguement in the thought that the world cannot live like we do in the US, especially how it is portrayed we live via the media outlets in other countries.
There was a relatively famous quote that I cannot think of the author ‘the scariest thing I have ever seen is a chineese boy eating a cheeseburger’. Strange, but does speak volumes as to the sustainability of our lifestyles on a global level. With this said…. I am just as guilty as anyone with a rural home and a 20+ mile commute in my SUV.
April 11th, 2007 at 11:05 am
As a utilitarian, Peter Singer would be committed to calling moral whatever actions maximized the benefit to others and minimized suffering. While we are all able to make some contribution or other, we have to maintain our own status as well or we become part of the population that is unfortunate and in need of aid. Likewise, billionaires such as Gates and Buffet do so much to stimulate the economy that if we criticized them for being billionaires, we run the risk of the entire population suffering due to the lack of a strong economy. It is a matter of finding the right balance between maintaining one’s own financial house, maintaining our economy so we don’t all suffer more, and preventing the suffering of others as much as possible. On this view, then, criticizing billionaires alone is misguided. Anyone who doesn’t contribute some of their excesses at the expense of others would be morally suspect.
April 11th, 2007 at 11:52 am
Every day I type many medical reports about patients who never have and never will make any functional or useful contribution to anything. These are people who are fully dependent for care and require a host of medications. The cost for this care is insane. They all seem to get money through various programs without anyone doing anything but filling out some paperwork. This annoys me.
So I donate money to the local dog park.
April 11th, 2007 at 12:28 pm
Great post to mull over J.D.
I think how each person goes about choosing what organization to support and what cause to give money to is linked with their hearts. Whatever we are passionate about, we will more likely be moved to the particular needs in that niche.
Hopefully the organization or cause people are giving to is being a faithful steward of the money. Bigger organizations will publish reports that spell out what percentage of the donations go directly to the efforts. I tend to choose organizations that are very efficient, and +90% of my donation goes directly to the cause.
If people don’t have a particular niche they are interested in, I strongly urge them to travel. For example; go to a third world country and visit places with great need. It is one thing to read about poverty or oppression, but it is another thing to see it in person. I think there is great value in the experience, and will be a strong motivation to give (and to pray) for years to come. Also it’s more comfortable to give money to an organization that you have an existing relationship with.
I think the greatest hinderance to giving and being generous is that we truly don’t identify with the needs around us. I remember a scene in Hotel Rwanda where the camera crew guy was explaining why no one in America was doing anything during the Rwandan genocide. He said, “people watch the highlights of the news in their comfortable homes and say, ‘oh, that’s terrible.’, and then go right back to eating their dinners.” Instead of inaction, we should place ourselves in places or situations where we can be more aware of these types of needs.
April 11th, 2007 at 12:40 pm
How much money should one give to charity when one’s net worth is negative? I wish Singer had offered figures for the not-rich. Not that I can’t decide my own numbers, but I would like to have more input.
Currently, I do $50/month. When my net worth is positive, I will increase that some. And when I’m done with graduate school and debt, I will work up to 10%. Giving money to charity when I’m currently in the hole is not the most logical choice, but it helps me feel more in control of my money, which helps me continue improving my financial situation.
April 11th, 2007 at 12:42 pm
I find criticism of the free market system a mite unwarranted. Were it not for such a system, we’d be mired under mercantilism, dictatorship, or communism, and we know how badly that worked out.
In fact, it is this system that has given us opportunities to actually do something about suffering throughout the world. Only paranoia, misquotes, and mistruths, which are often easily soundbytable, muddy the waters we’re looking at.
For instance, one poster above says that most rich people won’t donate. I wonder where the statistic is for that. Are we measuring percentage? Are we measuring nominal values? Does either measurement matter?
Folks, our market system gives us opportunities our ancestors couldn’t even dream of. The faults of charitable giving or inequality do not lie on the rich alone, its a burden we all shoulder, because we all pass the homeless guy on the street, or we don’t support a homeless shelter. The inequality is in part, a cultural issue, not a market one.
How to conquer the cultural issue? Well, that would imply we’d be able to interact more often, thus reducing free riding and other behaviors that take advantage of anonymity. How do we do that? Million Dollar Question.
Charles, you have a major axe to grind with Gates, but I don’t think its appropriate to this conversation.
April 11th, 2007 at 12:57 pm
Business Week annually puts out a list of the largest donors, and it barely matches up with the Forbes list of the richest. Most superwealthy people give a pitiful pittance of their assets. They literally have more money than they know what to do with. There was an article about this in the NYTImes. It’s linked at http://moneychangesthings.blogspot.com/2007/03/what-is-money-for-billionaires-dont.html
April 11th, 2007 at 1:23 pm
Humans are one of the very few species that regularly extend altruism to unrelated individuals. In most other species, altruism generally happens only within extended families; it’s not a behavior that could have evolved otherwise. (It’s only in the last 30 years or so that scientists have figured out how altruism could have evolved at all; it’s through a mechanism called “kin selection,” in which traits for a behavior are passed down through related individuals.)
Anyway, I see extended altruism as one of the key challenges in our cultural evolution, and one of the primary features distinguishing us from other animals. Clearly it’s not a behavior that is hardwired in most of us; it’s something that needs to be learned. It’s far easier to just look after yourself, your family, and your own interests. But I for one would feel more proud to be human if more people started to practice extended altruism.
April 11th, 2007 at 1:35 pm
Allie writes, “Every day I type many medical reports about patients who never have and never will make any functional or useful contribution to anything. These are people who are fully dependent for care and require a host of medications. The cost for this care is insane. They all seem to get money through various programs without anyone doing anything but filling out some paperwork. This annoys me.”
I was the child of a person like this. My mom became disabled as a result of mental illness when I was a pre-teen. She was (is) a single parent.
Suffice to say that my life would have been radically different as a child without the social safety net that paid for her hospitalizations and medications, not to mention the roof over my head and the food on my table. Some of this was a result of private donations and family support, but the bulk of it was Social Security Disability money.
Not to mention that I never in a million years could have gotten the education that I did (also largely supported by taxpayer dollars, as well as private charity) if I’d had to work from my teen years on supporting my mother. Whatever contributions I am empowered to bring to society as a result of my education are due to the support of the social safety net…for her.
All this by way of saying, the money that’s supporting those good-for-nothing people is has a big impact on those around them as well.
April 11th, 2007 at 1:36 pm
To the other DC (Economist): I tend to agree with you that we only have ourselves to blame for turning our cheek to the homeless and insanely rich. The free market system seems to be the best that mankind has at the moment. The problem is that the system poorly deals with the corruption of human values. The original model as keenly promoted by Adam Smith was balanced and sensible. Unfortunately, the “invisible hand” is now around our collective neck. I’m hopeful that humans can organize themselves in a way that beckons our most positive traits and denies our most decadent. The way in which resources (including money) are currently allocated leaves very little to be desired.
April 11th, 2007 at 2:11 pm
DC Econ, my issues with BIllG are at the center of this topic. The question was asked, how much should a billionaire give to charity? It doesn’t matter how much he gives, if the “philanthropy” only serves to accumulate more power for the donor. Is it proper for one person to accumulate billions of dollars through illegal acts, then use it to rehabilitate their public image through publicity-seeking philanthropy?
April 11th, 2007 at 2:25 pm
@Charles
Then you must prove That Buffett has commmitted illegal acts. That is quite the daunting task.
I also don’t get this power, thing. What I’ve seen of the Gates charity is that it is doing ALOT in Africa. I have several friends who are out there right now on grants from that charity, and its doing alot more good than WHO or the UN, or whoever else is out there.
I can’t talk about Gates, because I used to work in Anti-Trust. If we keep it on Buffett, we need more evidence than hearsay, coincidence, and correlation to convict.
@Portland
Yes, but I think this breakdown is attributable to the greater anonymity we have. The world is larger, so thusly our actions are more hidden. In Smith’s time, there were still villages.
Regressing towards non-market systems wouldn’t help. We learned that this century. It would seem that its much more likely than education, education, education, is where efforts are needed most.
April 11th, 2007 at 2:31 pm
Let me just throw in a plug for Kiva.org as a really great philanthropic organization. It’s not charity, it’s microlending; you donate $25 or more to an entrepreneur in a poor area of the world, who uses the money to expand his or her business, and then repays you. (They have a staggeringly high repayment rate, especially compared to what I know of Americans’ default rates, but I’m told that most microloans, even not ones administered through Kiva, are repaid.) You can then withdraw the money or lend it to another business owner. I really love it and have been throwing money their way whenever I can afford it, which isn’t often.
Anyway, loved the post!
http://rkaufman.wordpress.com
April 11th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
It irks me when we only look at money as part of charitable contributions. I regularly volunteer and mentor and I sometimes discount my fees for charities. Shouldn’t we value those sorts of contributions? Imagine two people earning $100k a a year. The first donates $10k a year to charity. The second donates no money, but provides 100 hours of volunteer work. Who’s the better person? If we just look at money, it’s the first person. However, if the second person normally gets paid $125 an hour for their time, they’ve actually given away $12,500. And exactly how do we value time, anyway?
April 11th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
Suppose I lend someone a million dollars. After a while they pay me back the million, plus $50,000 in interest. I give the $50,000 to charity and keep the original million.
Have I been generous and philanthropic? It could be argued that I’ve actually used my wealth to make other people give to charity.
This is the major difference between Gates and Buffett. Gates keeps his money in a foundation, which invests, and then gives away the money it makes from the investment. Buffett actually gives his money away.
April 11th, 2007 at 3:26 pm
Like many of you, I’m a bit uneasy contributing money to causes that directly promote human overpopulation, etc., so most of my charitable giving goes to environmental groups and human rights groups.
For the neediest people, or for people for whom money only goes so far, perhaps the best form of charitable giving is the gift of time. It’s nice to send $50 to a senior home so the residents can have a holiday dinner, but (to me, at least) there’s something much more permanent and socially involved in volunteering occasionally and being there. Of course, we’re such a busy society, but I hope to do more of such things when (if?) I retire….
April 11th, 2007 at 3:34 pm
I find that volunteering my time is an even better way to help out. It doesn’t cost me any money and also allows me to have more control on what is done with my offering. If I just wrote a check to some charity, I have no idea what is actually done with it.
Rob
April 11th, 2007 at 6:22 pm
@Charles:
Umm… wow. I don’t really care about your issues with Microsoft, or the AIDS conspiracy. However, I’ll go ahead and stand up for the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. I manage grants for a charity that receives millions from the Foundation. We don’t receive our funding in the form of MSFT stock, nor do we repay anything at the end of a grant term. Nice try. You don’t have to lie to be cool.
April 11th, 2007 at 7:06 pm
In response to DC Portland. The reason why we continue to support such a system is because questioning their wealth isn’t accompanied by a legally sanctioned one way trip to siberia.
Just ask the 35 million souls buried there.
People themselves know best how to allocate their own resources and - nobody - is a better judge or more justified to do this than they. If they so desire it, it will be, and this is the best way.
April 12th, 2007 at 12:03 am
I personally believe that the best thing wealth-creators can “give” is the creation of more wealth ( or perhaps helping others create their own. For example, helping those in disadvantaged situations create their own micro-businesses).
This benefits society more than any charitable gifts will.
April 12th, 2007 at 12:34 am
tort47: show me your “grant” contracts with the Foundation and I’ll show you the fine print. You may see cash but the Foundation only saw a short term loan of the stock. Your charity doesn’t repay anything because it never possessed anything, the MSFT stock was transferred to a third party that paid you the cash up front, then held the stock in trust, returning it when the term was over. You got the interest, while the Foundation gets the stock back.
DC Econ: I never accused Buffet of doing anything illegal, although you surely know Gates did, it’s a fact of law. My remarks are primarily aimed at Gates. I can, at worst, accuse Buffet of making a poor choice in aligning with the Gates Foundation.
What I am trying to get at here, it doesn’t just matter how much you give to charity, it also matters HOW you give it. Philanthropy should not be an opportunity to cover oneself with laurels, or to soften the public image of a robber baron. Neither should it be used to accumulate more power, even if it is power within the world of philanthropy. The goal of philanthropy is not to benefit oneself, but to benefit others.
April 12th, 2007 at 4:29 am
I choose where to give regularly based on the values that are important to me. The main things that I stand for are fairness and equality. This translates (for me) into choosing to donate regularly to an international development charity and a human rights charity.
This year, for the first time, I have a target for charitable/philanthropic money. This target is about a third more than I will be giving automatically.
April 12th, 2007 at 5:59 am
Congratulations Charles, you’re smarter than everyone else. Unfortunately, your desires to see the bad in people have blinded you to the overall strategy of the Gates Foundation.
Living off the interest is a common technique that leads to long term sustainability. I know my college did this, and I’m sure nearly every University does the same, for all of the grants it gives. That’s the whole concept of trusts and foundations.
So what’s better? Giving a one time lump sum of cash to a bunch of charities, or donating the interest for (theoretically) the rest of time?
I don’t know why you’re so bitter, but there’s no need for it. There’s no grand conspiracy to take over the world, so why not reserve the judgments for yourself and do what you think Bill Gates isn’t doing?
April 12th, 2007 at 7:51 am
Egads, this thread has a lot of posts. Seems interesting to me that people interested in getting rich slowly also tend to be generous (according to the posts).
Today I gave to Eugene’s NPR affiliated radio. It felt good.
I give to my own nonprofit. Does that count? I almost feel like I’m not contributing as I have a self interest in helping kids with autism.
April 12th, 2007 at 9:08 am
Dickey47 wrote: “Seems interesting to me that people interested in getting rich slowly also tend to be generous.”
Maybe we’re just interested in getting rich as slowly as possible!
April 12th, 2007 at 10:09 am
@Charles:
One last try.
a) You’re contradicting yourself. Again. Go back and read your first post describing the Gates Foundation financial structure, and compare.
b) The Gates Foundation receives transfers of stock and other assets from Bill. No doubt much of this is MSFT stock.
c) Stock does not bear “interest.”
d) The Foundation does indeed have two arms - one that does the grant managing and a separate one that manages its assets. They’d have nothing to give if they didn’t sell off assets. And you don’t have to dig deep to see that they own stock in a wide range of companies around the world.
e) It’s not even true that the Foundation is living off interest or gains on its assets - it’s set to expire (as in expend all its assets) in a limited number of years, and further Buffett’s donation has to be spent each year in its entirety.
f) As you might guess from my screen name, I’m an attorney, and doubt you could tell me much about my grant agreements that I don’t already know backwards and forwards.
g) Reaching back to your first pack of lies, although we’d love to have him, Bill isn’t on our board of directors.
April 13th, 2007 at 2:25 am
I think giving should be a proportional thing. Bill Gates and Warren Buffett have worked extremely hard to earn all of that money, just like many people have worked hard to achieve their own wealth.
The issue is that people think that Gates and Buffett are “lucky” but they’re not lucky. They’re just shrewd and know how to play the game.
Hopefully in time, a lot more people will wise up to financial literacy. I guess we’ll see.
April 13th, 2007 at 2:58 pm
This is an interesting topic and I read the entire article. I think there are a variety of reasons to give to charity or to give time to a charity. Each person that makes up a community has some responsibility to make it a better place. The taxes that we pay should be doing the job of taking care of our most vulnerable citizens but it just doesn’t happen that way. I’ve always given to charity (even when I made $16,000 right out of college) and I give to charity now (and also give of my time) even when my husband and I are in the middle of a $55,000 debt paydown. Budgeting to give to charity was something that my husband and I did not really see eye to eye on. He felt that all our disposable income should be directed to debt reduction, saving, or investing and I felt that giving to charity was important and needed to be part of our budget.
The most important reason for me to give to charity is to help the people that my favorite charities help. The second most important reason is b/c I feel that I have a responsiblity as a member of my community to help those less fortunate. And the third most important reason (and I find this a good reality check) I give to charities is to keep my budget, money management, investing goals in the context of the greater world. Thinking about people who live in my community that are homeless or don’t have food to eat puts our debt reduction plan in perspective (we are paying down my husband’s MBA debt). The fact is my husband and I are in the top 10% and I agree with the article we should be giving 10%
April 14th, 2007 at 3:52 am
Peter Singer received a lot of letters after his NY Times article was published, and many of them raised issues that were also raised in comments to this blog post. You can read his answers here
April 19th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
[...] and save smartly. The blog also seeks to present moral and ethical issues involving money such as “What Should a Billionaire Give, and What Should You?” and “How One Father Taught His Son About Money.” You may or may not agree with the [...]
May 3rd, 2007 at 11:20 am
I am so grateful for this incredible conversation. It is really enjoyable to come to a place where people with different values can have educated discussions without such negativity you see elsewhere.
I think no one can doubt the unfathomable amount of money that was given in this event. 37 billion. Imagine a parking lot full 37,000 Bugatti Veyrons with just Buffet’s donation, tithe, offering or whatever you wish to call it.
I love what Matt said, “How many people were employed to build their houses.” Or clean and upkeep them? Thats a lot of grass folks. And you know the neighborhood children don’t knock on his door and ask to cut it.
Me personally, I am impressed that someone in this world has that kind of heart to give away billions. So unselfishly. They worked hard and changed the world with their innovation, you solve the billion dollar problem and you’ll get the money too.
And now the infamous but…I always think about the final scene of Schindler’s List were he was
heart broken over what more he could have done.How many lives he could have saved by selling a pin on his lapel. That scene will stick in my head forever when I make my first million, ten million, and hopefully billion. What will I do with what I have? Or, as us christians ask, what do I do with what I have been given?
Gos has blessed America. Just a side note, I dont believe its the govt’s job to manage my livelihood. They have enough on their hands trying to make sure people don’t blow each other up and attempting to take care of those who can’t help themselves. What a world we live in.
A little story I received via email…
A Sad Parallel…
I bought a bird feeder. I hung it on my back porch and filled it with seed. Within a week we had hundreds of birds taking advantage of the continuous flow of free and easily accessible food. But then the birds started building nests in the boards of the patio, above the table, and next to the barbecue. Then came the poop. It was everywhere: on the patio tile, the chairs, the table…everywhere.
Then some of the birds turned mean: They would dive bomb me and try to peck me even though I had fed them out of my own pocket. And others birds were boisterous and loud: They sat on the feeder and squawked and screamed at all hours of the day and night and demanded that I fill it when it got low on food. After a while, I couldn’t even sit on my own back porch anymore.
I took down the bird feeder and in three days the birds were gone. I cleaned up their mess and took down the many nests they had built all over the patio. Soon, the back yard was like it used to be…quiet, serene and no one demanding their rights to a free meal.
Now lets see…our government gives out free food, subsidized housing, free medical care, free education and allows anyone born here to be a automatic citizen. Then the illegals came by the tens of thousands. Suddenly our taxes went up to pay for free services; small apartments are housing 5 families: you have to wait 6 hours to be seen by an emergency room doctor: your child’s 2nd grade class is behind other schools because over half the class doesn’t speak English: Corn Flakes now come in a bilingual box; I have to press “one” to hear my bank talk to me in English, and people waving flags other than “Old Glory”, are squawking and screaming in the streets, demanding more rights and free liberties.
Maybe it’s time for the government to take down the bird feeder.
August 28th, 2007 at 11:07 am
Yikes. I know I’m late to the convo, but I have to reply to this last post — it’s sad that someone needs to make up such a dramatic fiction like that to get their anti-immigration point across, and it’s similarly disappointing that this be the “note” that such a lively and thorough discussion of the beauty and ethics of giving should end on. There are so many things wrong with that Forward that I really don’t know where to begin — but I have followed that bit of vitriol off-topic as far as I am willing.
The Schindler’s parallel is very apt, I think. So many Americans who believe they cannot afford to give their money or don’t know how to give their time may think that they do not have anything to offer. How untrue this is! I have found that the more I give of my time, the more time I find that I have to use for myself. The more I give of my money, the more my personal Plenty seems to grow. Tangible or no, the difference it makes to one’s psyche when they give time or resources to a worthy person or group has a distinct impact on their life, and should be encouraged at all levels of life, all religions, and in all families.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:08 am
Former billionaire Chuck Feeney gave it all away while still alive. There’s a new book out about how he made his money and then gave it all away. I wrote about it here: http://smartstartup.typepad.com/my_weblog/2007/10/how-billionaire.html
December 28th, 2007 at 11:04 am
I know I’m resurrecting a long-dead conversation here, but I was shocked and appalled at Allie’s statments about “patients who never have and never will make any functional or useful contribution to anything.” Was that some kind of weird sarcasm, or do you think disabled people don’t deserve to live because they don’t “contribute” to society (through working)?
How can you blame them? What are they supposed to do? Don’t they have as much right to life as anyone else? It’s a sad day when the only value a human being has is in the amount of work s/he can produce.