Ask the Readers: How Do You Live Frugally Without Seeming Like a Loser?
Published on - March 21st, 2008 (by J.D. Roth) In Wednesday’s discussion about how to live on less and love it, Steve left an interesting comment:
One topic I never see covered is “extreme finances” or even simple frugality in relationship to being single. I’m not talking about being a cheapskate during dinner, but maintaining a low-powered lifestyle while seeking a mate. Like it or not, first impressions count and first impressions are often based on superficialities, even by nice and otherwise deep people.
Yes, there is always the rare person who will not care if you drive an old car or live in a cheap apartment, but other people don’t see old cars and cheap apartments as choices for a well thought-out philosophy, but as indicators that someone does not have his life together.
Is frugality beyond a certain point something that is for married people only?
This comment prompted Ben to respond to me via e-mail:
This is something that’s been on my mind as I try to improve my spending habits while preparing to return to an active date-hunting, mate-seeking lifestyle.
It’s not just about dating, though — if anything, that’s the easy part; just say “hey, how about the park?” instead of “Let me treat you to Chez Expensivique.” The hard part is trying to live your whole life frugally without seeming a) cheap, or b) a loser. (“No, honest, I choose to drive this reliable older car, it’s not that I can only afford to crawl along in my grandfather’s half-dead Gremlin!”) Frugal choices can make an impression that you don’t want to make.
Most discussion on this topic seems to focus on “Don’t worry about what other people think,” which is hard when you’re trying very hard to make a very good first impression on those people so they’ll want to date you. After all, it’s one case where we really are being judged by others — and should care about what those judgements are. The only other response I tend to see is “here’s some cheap date ideas” — which, like I said, is the easy part. After all, even wealthy, spendy-type folks go for walks in the park.
These gentlemen have a point: how does one live frugally without looking cheap?
During my last week at the box factory, a potential customer dropped by to make a surprise visit. When I know that I’m going to see somebody I need to impress, I try to look halfway decent. But on that day I was wearing a ten-year-old sweatshirt with fraying cuffs and a fraying collar. I had on a beat-up pair of sneakers. There was no simple way for me to explain to this man, “Yes, I know I might look like a slob, but it’s for all the right reasons.”
In dating and business and day-to-day life, people do judge us by superficial standards. How do you maintain a frugal lifestyle without giving the impression you’re cheap?
This article is about Ask the Readers, Choices, Frugality, Relationships
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Living frugally is an extremely laudable goal, but taken to extreme limits can be just as unattractive as extreme consumerism. What they have in common is money as the central obsession. I have encountered a few whose “extreme frugality” is quite off-putting, in that it appears that all they think about is saving a buck, and have lost any spirit of generosity. Maybe this is a difference between frugal and “cheap”
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Here is my comment on this as someone who spent about three years very actively on the dating scene. People should always be themselves. This is true. But as a woman in her 30′s, it was very important to me to find someone who was financially responsible AND who was financially secure. So, someone who only wanted to go to the park or who drove a wreck would’ve raised a red flag. You can be frugal and still be classy and interesting. But you will definitely have to try harder. Most importantly, women don’t want to think you’re living paycheck to paycheck and have no money in the bank. These are hard times, and we want to be with someone who isn’t going to be a financial burden on us. (This is from the point of view of a financially secure woman.)
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Since frugality is important to you, I would naturally assume you are seeking this in a mate. If so, make it a topic of conversation – I choose to live this way because I am focusing on paying down debt, or saving for retirement. Those are very admirable qualities when making judgements about the opposite sex.
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This is where “less is more” comes into play, I think. Owning less things, but those things being of good quality doesn’t come off as cheap or loser. The other factor is to maintain those quality things. You can have an older car that still looks nice. The care that you put into the fewer, quality things you do own will be an attractive quality to the kind of person you are probably looking to date anyway!
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The idea is to buy quality things that last forever.
For exemple, buy a nice quality pair of leather shoes (that can last for 10 to 20 years) and not a weak pair of sneakers that will be destroyed in 1 year.
First, It will certainly be more expensive but in the long term, it will be cheaper.
So, think quality, think in the long term.
I believe it’s something very hard to understand for someone in the extreme frugality. A big mistake…
The point is also to be very VERY carreful with the quality things you buy if you want them to last longer.
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When I first started dating the man I’m planning to marry, he was in his late 20′s, living with his parents, driving an older F-body and living, like, well, a broke college student.
He didn’t give me time to focus on the negatives, and pitched them as positives: the used car was sexy and fast, even if parts of it were falling off; his mom is a great cook and the woods behind their rural home are great for hikes, etc. Instead of getting down about those things (which was how I reacted when I was under the same circumstances) he focused on being the expert at finding exciting, unique, cheap dates.
He was also upfront with me about the fact that he was making broke student pay, and he was also upfront with me about the reasons – going back to college as an adult (women love a guy with goals and dedication).
If a girl’s having a good time with you and you’re an interesting, fun guy she’s not going to worry about how much you’re spending. Anyone can take us to a pricey dinner. Not everyone would think to suggest making a short film, range shooting or going to the local Harley-Davidson to sit on all the bikes. If you’re an expert on what places in your area have cheap food that tastes good (not gourmet, but tasty) this is also a bonus. We lived by delis and diners for the first 3 months we dated but it beat the hell out of eating at a pricey place and then getting bad food or bad service.
If you can save up every once in a while and take her out someplace a little nicer than usual, she’ll appreciate it because she’ll know it’s not a part of your routine but an effort you’re making just for her.
Confidence, creativity, a certain amount of upfront disclosure and thoughtfulness will get you everywhere. And in a guy she might get serious about, a lot of gals appreciate a certain amount of fiscal responsibility…
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I drove around a hyundai wagon while in my mid to late twenties. It was embarrassing at times, but I did it because it was paid off. My girlfriend and now my wife didn’t mind because we had a similar outlook on money.
That’s my suggestion… spend money as you see fit and if the woman doesn’t agree maybe you aren’t compatible. I’ve read that they biggest reason for divorce is money disagreements.
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Hmmm … I find it interesting that this seems to be far more of a worry for men than for women. Personally on the dating scene, I’ve have no trouble explaining to males that I don’t have a lot of free spending money, and that I prefer to do things the frugal way, and so far I’ve never gotten the impression that they are judging me negatively for it. On the contrary, they seem to like me all the more for it. What gives?
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I think that Karl is correct when it comes to dating. If the woman is very concerned about what kind of car you are driving and feels it (and you) are not worthy then you are probably not financially in tune and that will likely cause problems down the line.
What I do to fit in at work and with friends is to set aside a certain amount of money for non-frugal choices (i.e. lunch out at work or dinner club with friends or annual girls only vacations). I use that non-frugal money (or fun money) without regret and when its gone I stop spending. I also don’t use credit cards so I only spend money that I have.
I think it also makes sense to perhaps spend a bit more to buy quality over quantity. Buy a nice suit that you can mix and match or a really good pair of shoes vs. cheap stuff that looks cheap and doesn’t last.
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I totally get what they’re saying. At the same time, there is a difference between someone who drives a car that barely runs and someone who drives a vehicle that is newer (but not NEW) and in good condition. My husband had a small, humble apartment when I dated him. He drove a pickup that was 15 years old but well-cared for – as in, shiny like a new one. Had he driven the newest, fanciest car and had a high class apartment, I doubt I would have dated him because I didn’t have a lot of money myself and I would have felt uncomfortable. I dated a few guys like that, who could treat me to whatever I wanted, but it wasn’t very fun.
I remember he had a set budget every weekend, and if something came up – like a car repair – he’d just tell me he was short on cash and I’d cook rather than our going out to eat or something. We went out a lot more than we do now, but we were still frugal about it.
Like my husband says, there’s girlfriend material and wife material. You just need to date someone who is wife material.
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Rent a car.
A $40 car rental four times a month (a lot of dating from this geek’s perspective) is still less than a car payment and you can show up with a different car for each date.
And no stale french fries under the driver’s seat!
-=Skip
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I think the subject here isn’t “frugal lifestyle”, as you describe it: wearing beat-up clothes in a workplace is always a ‘danger’ of encountering a situation where you might have to put on a quality image. This is a situation of knowing how to be frugal (making quality purchasing choices) …versus wearing something until it falls apart …versus knowing WHEN to be out in public with those choices.
Example: I have fraying clothes also. But I’ll wear them painting a room or in the garden, not to a work environment – not even a casual work environment. However, I have a wonderful thrift store nearby which sells nearly-new and new (!) clothes for $1-10. It’s easy to have a decent casual-work wardrobe for $15 — for a whole WEEK. (I can buy a suit there also).
There’s ‘frugal’ and then there’s ‘anal-retentive’
I think people should understand the greys 
In dating, the whole picture is what to consider. Yes, there are guys with fancy cars who are complete jerks, ….and also wonderful, caring men who have an 8-year old car who want to picnic for a date. It’s the whole-picture which makes the difference, not the money.
However, if a man wants to date who won’t make any effort at all (with imagination, money, OR effort), that’s another issue altogether.
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In the beginning, spend a little more, only if you can, but not a lot.
Do not veer into cheap. I once had a date ask me to pour my free ladies night drink into his purchased beer can to save money. Yuck!
DO on the second date or so explain why you are frugal. What are your financial goals? Travel? Owning your own business? Early Retirment? etc. Are you conscious of overconsumerism because of the environment?
If it’s meant to be, your reasons will impress your date and she’ll want to stick around.
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A guy asked me out on a date but I didn’t want to go because he’s so sloppy. In his frugality, he’s gotten used to wearing ten-year-old discolored clothes, et cetera.
I’m all for frugality, that’s why I’m subscribed to this blog. But there’s also a certain quality of life that I don’t want to fall below.
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I have to agree with Tana. When I met MrHolly he drove an older (but still safe and well-maintained) Honda Civic. He didn’t wear fancy clothes, he wore classic clothes that were clean and well-pressed. He didn’t take me a lot of expensive places.
Because he took care of what he had, and it was clear from looking around his apartment that he was willing and able to splurge on the occasional item that was important to him, I was smart enough to realize that he was in fact managing his finances. That was much more important to me than a guy who bought me flowers and took me to Chez Expensive every weekend.
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This is an interesting topic. When I was on the dating “scene”, I really hated that Dinner and a Movie or Dancing were standard. You don’t have to be cheap to be frugal.
Going hiking, a surprise romantic picnic, and taking a walk on wooded trails are all fantastic dates. For indoor days, you can play board games, cook a gourmet dinner together, or just watch DVDs on the sofa.
There is no trick to dating. Women LOVE when they feel you’ve put effort into planning a special time for them. Most of us prefer the thought to the expense every time.
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In my opinion, I’ve found it helps to explain what you’re saving for. Being frugal is well enough, but it can become special, and even endearing if its for the right reasons. Be honest when telling someone, but choose wisely. Saying you’re saving for a 4 week stint in Europe over the summer is different than saying you’re saving for retirement to a 20-something woman!
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Who cares if you seem like a loser? That’s about other people, not you.
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I’m going to presume that you are dating because you want find the woman you want to marry, rather than just go out and have a bit of fun with random girls (its important because you baisically have to be a spendthrift to impress the random girls). Anyway, similar to Tana said, no matter how old your car is, keep it clean. More important than how expensive your car and clothes are, is how they are kept. Be clean, neat and well groomed. See if you can find some solid classic pieces (Brooks Brothers, J. Crew, etc.) that are used but in good condition. (Try to figuring out where the nicest areas are around you and then go to the thrift and consignment shops right next them). Now, your real problem seems to be where to meet these girls who will respect your lifestyle and want to date you without throwing you into bankruptcy. I would suggest finding some cheap dance lessons. Where I used to live for $5 on a Friday nigh you could go to the local college and get an hour of swing dancing lessons and then several hours of danincing. My friends and I used to go to these all the time because it was cheap for us and we liked the idea of meeting guys who could dance. Unfortunatly (or fortunatly for you) there were never enough guys to go around at these things, but the ones who were there tended to be very nice and were out dancing rather than boozing it up, which certainly was a point in their favor from us. Another way to meet eligible young ladies is through your friends — I met my husband at a party thrown by a mutual friend. I don’t mean blind dates but group bbq’s or picnics at the park can be a great way to meet other people who want to have fun and meet people without breaking the bank. If things start to get serious with a girl then you can talk to her about your own financial philosophy and what you are trying to accomplish — you may be pleasantly surprised to find that she will respect what you are doing, and possibly even be excited about it. When it comes to women who want to get married they want someone who will provide stability and security. Your frugality will show her that you understand that and are willing to work for it. Good luck!
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Contrast two men I dated in the early 2000s:
- One shared a rental house with a friend while he worked a menial job and tried to get an entrepreneurial venture off the ground. He dressed simply but was always neat and his appearance was well-maintained. His house was clearly a bachelor pad, but it was clean and welcoming. He had learned to cook a few simple, excellent meals and our dinner dates were usually at his house. He knew a lot of free (or very inexpensive) things to do in his community and took obvious enjoyment in them, so they never felt like second-class dates. When he had a little extra money, he saved it or put it into his business.
- Another had a professional degree but was working temp jobs. He lived in a condo that his rich parents purchased for him; it was in a gorgeous building in a prestigious area… and he had covered the walls with newspaper clippings and posters, his furniture was stained and broken, and his kitchen was covered in years of grime. His hair was overgrown and his clothing was frequently stretched out or dirty. His idea of a good date would be to split one beer at a nearby bar and then eat serving after serving from their happy hour buffet. When he had a little extra money, he bought more of the model airplanes that filled every surface in his home.
Both men were handsome, intelligent, and living on very little money, but the way they handled it was a world apart.
As a single female, I dressed neatly and tried to choose classic rather than trendy styles, but I never looked high-maintenance, so I didn’t attract the sort of men who expect their date to have fresh pedicures and designer clothes. Good! We wouldn’t have compatible ethics. I wouldn’t mention my coupon-clipping, but I was upfront about the fact that I was actively paying off my home and managing my investments. That intimidated some guys and impressed others; and I don’t have much patience for those in the first group anyway.
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(And yes, I’m the Ben from the original post)
Tana’s post seems to be the usual kind of comment I see on this topic – in that it refers to an ongoing, long-term relationship. It’s not that it’s untrue, or incorrect – but a lot of the difficulty here relates to the earlier part of the dating game, when you’re *not* proceeding in a relationship, but trying to find people, go on dates, etc – ie, make a first, or maybe second, impression.
“Who cares if you seem like a loser? That’s about other people, not you.”
That’s the point! By definition, dating requires that other people judge you. Specifically, that person you’re trying to date. So the answer is: That cute girl over there cares, and by extension, so do I.
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In response to Rika:
There are still traditional roles that are associated with men and women even though they are more muted in today’s society.
Men are seen as a provider and thus looking like you aren’t willing to provide looks bad. Women the care giver. You don’t need money to take care of someone and showing that you can do a lot with less is an attractive quality in a mate. Due to being PC most people don’t talk about the perceptions of male and female roles but I think they are still there in most peoples minds.
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1. If you’re going to be cheap you need to be creative and entertaining. You’ll need to put effort into planning fun activities. Otherwise, she’ll be afraid that if the relationship goes anywhere, you’ll be stuck at home on Saturday nights, rolling coins.
2. I agree with the people who said that frugal is different than cheap and lazy. I do not mind an old, well-maintained car, but I do mind guys that still wear their sweatpants from college. It’s okay to save money by spending extra time and effort to keep old things lovely. It’s not okay to have stuff that’s dirty or ratty, and to justify it by saying it’s some sort of economic policy. I mean – learn to sew and fix those clothes if you want to hang on to them – that’s free.
3. When I lived in an expensive city and was trying to keep to a budget, one of my tricks was to either only eat out or only drink out. If the main entertainment was drinking, I’d eat at home and not order food when everyone else did. If the main focus was the dinner, I’d pack a flask and order diet cokes with my food.
It sounds goofy, but it’s really expensive to eat AND drink out.
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I am very turned off by flashy men. Expensive new cars, furniture, and clothes make me suspicious, especially if I know what that guy’s job is and that it wouldn’t afford such a luxurious lifestyle. I assume this guy has bought these things on credit, and that he is not financially secure. The first thing I think is that he is probably irresponsible with money, and that does NOT impress me.
When considering potential dates, the bare financial minimum for me is that the guy can take care of himself. If we live in a town where public transportation is not reliable, the guy has to have SOME sort of car so he can get around without depending on me for rides. He has to be able to self-sufficient enough that he has his own place to live and pays his bills without a problem.
Expensive clothes don’t matter. As long as they are clean and well taken care of.
I am old fashioned in that I don’t like to go dutch on dates, but I don’t care if the dates are inexpensive (a movie on a Saturday afternoon, picnic in the park, etc.). I’d rather go to a free gallery night or a free concert on the town green than have to pay 1/2 for dinner out. I understand if you’re saving money– just don’t ask me to more expensive places than that you’re willing to pay for. (And if you have a coupon for a cheaper admission or buy one get one free for dinner, please have the tact to not present it in front of me. It makes me feel like you’re only with me that night because it’s such a bargain!!)
All that to say, you don’t have to spend money to impress every girl, just the shallow ones. And I’m not a “hippie girl,” either. I am one of the “cute girls over there” and surprise! I don’t care that you have a late model car or designer brand clothes.
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1. Pay cash. It doesn’t matter what you’re doing or buying. If you pay cash for it, you’ll feel richer and you know you can afford it.
2. Buy substance over style. Second date? Say you’re a great cook, and back it up with some good cooking. In fact, cook better food for yourself than you’d ever buy.
3. Buy quality. Maintain quality. Those expensive sweaters come with extra buttons and some thread for a reason. Use them. It’s cheaper than replacing them.
Lives are built, slowly. Too much too soon has never been a good prescription for what ails you.
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I agree with the previous posters. As long as you’re clean-cut and take care of yourself, women will give you the benefit of the doubt (at least worth-while ones will) and hang around to get a feel for your real situation.
My husband is a frugal guy and that was part of what attracted me to him. I didn’t want a guy who knew how to blow every dollar he made on “stuff”.
It probably helps, though, that my husband is more frugal with himself than with me. He has no problem with me going out for an occasional pedicure, but he knows that since I’m frugal, I won’t take advantage of his generosity and get a pedicure every week (or month for that matter).
I guess my point is, don’t worry about it too much. If he/she doesn’t stick around, they weren’t the right one for you.
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Cleanliness is a big factor, I think. Yeah you might not be driving the nicest car, but if it is well maintained and very clean, you get an A+ in my book for not being a slob.
Same thing with clothes. Even if you don’t wear the nicest clothes, if you are clean and well kept it goes a huge way to making a good impression with me.
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About the workplace: whatever clothes you need to look good are just job expenses. You shouldn’t dress down. You can wear your good clothes more often & mix and match.
About dating:
LET’S FACE IT–the vast majority of people don’t get the kind of frugality that readers here subscribe to. What good is it to attract people who aren’t going to buy into one of your deep values?
Statistically, you’re only going to “make it” with 1-2% of the possible single people out there. There’s no real benefit in attracting the people that are you are SURE not to stick with
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As a single woman, I feel the OPs pain. Personally, I just maintain a groomed, clean appearance for myself and my things. I buy quality/classic clothing with a few trendy (but inexpensive) pieces to keep me up-to-date. I pay someone to perfectly arch my eyebrows but clip and file my nails myself. Oh, and I smile a lot. All this tends to present an image that I’m comfortable, happy, and approachable. Not rolling in the dough, but not struggling either.
This tends to work for me in the dating world as I try to maintain my budget and my sexy. ;-D
For dates, I tend let the first date be just a meet-up. That’s mainly a function of getting a lot of dates online. The first time I meet someone, it’s pretty short because you’re just meeting them for the first time. So it’s just usually a coffee or something while we hang out. If things work out and we want to spend more time together, we can grab something to eat at the local sandwich joint or something. It’s low-pressure for both of us, emotionally and financially.
So bottom-line, to not convey the “loser” vibe is for me to present myself in classic clothes that flatter, keep my things in clean and running order, and be happy and confident in what I have to offer to a potentional companion.
Hope that helps.
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@emily: I live in a big city and almost all my friends carry flasks! I don’t because I don’t go out that much, but they do and that’s how they are able to keep costs reasonable when they go out.
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Don’t worry guys. When you save enough, the girls will notice. My fiancee said she liked that our first date was different than any one she has ever had (we played Scrabble and ate free food) and I made it clear my frugality was a mission to accomplish something bigger (large amount of savings.) If you make it known that you are saving, and for what reasons, you’ll earn respect, not ridicule.
It’s hard to fathom, but do know it’s possible.
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@Momma – read her post, twice! I also agree that good grooming and well-cared-for possessions make a huge impression. For example, an older model car that is clean inside and out tells me a lot about a person’s character, and perhaps even how they “take care of” a relationship!
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I am a single woman in my 30′s. I am very frugal (although I spend money on things I really want or care about). I’ve done well financially. But I have to admit I would be wary of dating someone really frugal….I would need to really look at what kind of frugality is it. Is he frugal or cheap? Is he frugal all the time or are there things he would spend money on. I’m a pretty cheap date, but I don’t live “cheaply” like my grandfather did who saved the best for himself, but was cheap with his family. I would love to marry someone who is responisble with money, has something to show for that responsibility, but isn’t going to get in my way the times I do want to spend money. My motto is be frugal with what you don’t care about so you can spend on what you do care about.
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So what you are essentially asking is how to trick a woman into being your mate. Nice. What are you, John Cusack?
Why don’t you get your nerdy-hot-but-considered-unattractive-by-the-jocks- because-she-wears-glasses friend to coach you on how to trick the stereotypical vacuous blond chick into sleeping with you, but you’ll find out right at the end that you can’t go through with it because you really love the nerdy girl after all and she loves you?
Life isn’t a romantic comedy. There’s no secret to attracting women, other than to show genuine interest in them, pay genuine attention to them, and don’t dress like a slob. You’re not trying to purchase a piece of property, your trying to find someone who is going to be your best friend for the next 60 or so years.
And I guarantee you that no matter how hot you think she is, she has her flaws that she is trying to hide from you as well.
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The solution: Be a tough on yourself, and generous with others.
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My advise with frugality would be to not to impose it on the another person. I had dinner ordered for me by my cousin because she thought I should eat just that and everything else on the menu is too expensive. I was shocked and felt that it was too cheap. She should have just told me she was on a budget and allowed me to make a decision!
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One thing I’ve heard about how to know if a guy is not into you: he talks about numbers a lot. If he is worrying a lady’s pretty little head with how much his car payment is, that rent is coming due, and any other numeric amounts (not ideals, goals, and abstract values), he is not looking to marry you.
If a man wants to marry you, then he’ll manage his money, and may say things like, I’m making sure to save enough to capture the company match for my 401k, or things like, I feel that there are very few things that require a brand name for me to buy them when the generic is just as good… that is different. If he is talking about trying to live on $10 a day until he gets his next paycheck, or talking about his $123 phone bill, and actually saying numbers, bad sign. You are not a potential life-mate. Abandon ship.
So guys, if you are saying numbers to women, stop. Not because women can’t handle it, not because women aren’t financially geniuses, some definitely are, but really, discussions in the early stages of a relationship should be about goals and values, not dollar signs and phone bills.
And girls, cheap dates are fun. Don’t order the most expensive thing on the menu, even if you are worth it. It will be a lot more fun when he can order it for you when you have been able to build the dream life you wanted together because you’ve worked towards and met your goals and have achieved financial security.
Men want love and comfort from their wives. Wives want support and security from their husbands. Seek mates accordingly.
PS – If you want to look great at any price point, check out “What Not to Wear” on TLC, they have great tips on how to clean out your wardrobe and not look like a slob. They focus on classic pieces that will last and be staples in your wardrobe. Highly recommended. (Nominate yourself online for a $5000 shopping spree.)
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I’m pursuing a frugal lifestyle so I want someone who is doing the same. I once dated a guy who drove a late model SUV, dressed to impress, and wined and dined me at fancy places, etc. His philosophy was spend it now ’cause he may not be around to spend it later. He remains a friend but I would never go back into that relationship…our philosophies are too different.
I’m dating someone now who drive’s an older car, dresses impeccably, though not in the latest trends, and is always looking for a bargain. That’s more up my alley. Our philosophies are about the same… actually, he’s more frugal minded than I am. His focus is quality over quantity and I like that. He has less ‘stuff’ but will pay more up front so it will last and in the end he’ll end up paying less.
I want to ‘live life’ with my family. When you’re buying all the latest doo-dads, you either have to work many hours to pay for it (hence, not enough time enjoy your family and the things you enjoy outside of work), or you’re deep in debt, ducking the bill collector and nursing an ulcer ’cause you’re spending what you don’t have to keep up with the Jonses.
I think if you’re at the point of dating to find someone to settle down with, compatibility in life philosophy is what matters. The number of women I see as posters here is a testament that there are many of us out there that are interested in a frugal lifestyle.
@ Ben, I agree that first impressions counts and if you’re trying to get a date you want to impress that cute girl across the room. Second, third, etc impressions also counts. The guy who gets the girl because of his fancy wardrobe, car, expensive dates, etc. will not hold her for long if their personalities and philosophies don’t match.
There was a point in my life where I wore wrinkled t-shirts, jeans, sweat shirts, etc. all the time. My work wardrobe was a slight step above that (I couldn’t wear jeans to work). I had an ‘aha’ moment when I realized that the guys I was attracting was not the kind I wanted to date. My first impression was not representing me very well
I had to make a change.
Is your first impression saying what you want it to say about you?…and I think this goes beyond whether you are frugal, cheap, spend – thrift, etc.
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Wow, there have been some incredible responses! Price vs. cost is something to consider when being frugal. Yes, do pay more for something of higher quality because it can last longer. Maintain it and yourself and your appearance will always look sharp.
Biggest thing for attracting people? Confidence. If you believe in yourself and have that confidence shine, you will be noticed and meet more ladies. You can wear inexpensive clothing (well kept), drive an older lower-end car (well maintained) and be confident about them and yourself. Women will notice this and you can get those first dates and meetings from it.
Eye contact, good posture, smiling,and mimicking their movements are things that will cause the ladies to notice you. Be confident, kind and respectful. Then get that first date. Show them how fantastic you are, and for that next date offer a nice romantic dinner at home that you will cook.
Good luck Ben! I wish you the best success in finding that special someone who understands and appreciates you.
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A lot of the women here have made the point that it’s not necessarily how much you have, but what you do with what you have. I’m also actively dating — and, ok, not getting very far — and I’ve noticed that a lot of men who have little, give even less. (I’m making the point about men because that’s who I date. Women are probably just as bad.)
Now, this is in large part my issue; I’m stubbornly independent and low-maintenance and find myself men who think that means no-maintenance. But it’s something I’ve seen a number of times: people who can’t make big gestures dismiss the small ones, even when they’re told it’s good.
The little stuff matters. Never underestimate the little stuff. An old car that’s clean and neat is better to a lot of women than a new car that’s messy and unwelcoming. A well-chosen, inexpensive gift ($5 worth of nice cheese to share? $2 Dalek cookie cutter?) is worth a lot more than an expensive flower arrangement that makes her sneeze. Calling in the morning because she’s said she’d love that? Not any harder than calling in the evening. And you’d be surprised how many men dismiss simple courtesy.
Some people really want big gestures. But if you’re trying to be frugal and looking for someone who is at least sympathetic to that, then you might want to be weeding those out anyway.
And while the first-impressions bit is true, there’s not a whole lot someone can really tell from the first few dates if you keep them low-key. The car is the only one I can really think of. Interesting restaurants can be cheap. Museums, ditto. Conversations about goals are free and can clue her in. Nice, well-made clothes are a worthwhile investment for the frugal. Keeping your fingernails trimmed and clean should not be a big deal for a normal adult. By the time you’re taking her back to your apartment to show off your etchings, she’s probably already decided whether you’re flakey-poor or frugal, and whether she likes that.
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always make sure that you wear very nice shoes. it’s easy.
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First, thanks to J.D. for creating/maintaining this site and for everyone who writes and/or comments on it. I have been lurking around here of late and all the information, whether it pertains directly to me or not, inspires me daily to be frugal.
As for looking frugal vs. looking like a cheapskate when dating, yes, clean, well-cared for clothing makes a difference. (This applies to making a good impression at your job too.) No, it does not have to be the expensive and/or the latest trend. Classic pieces that are well made can be purchased for less if you watch for sales, etc. as mentioned by others here. I am all for hole-filled jeans on a Saturday or casual dates, but if a guy is in that for every date, it makes me worry that he does not take the time to care for himself.
Lastly, I offer up my father’s old dating trick. You can only do this if you happen to have a good friend around the same size. My dad used to have 3 suits. His buddy had 3 suits. Together, if they shared clothing (which they did), they could have six suits to alternate. My mom, though wondering why a few of my father’s pants were a wee bit shorter, thought she had found one snazzy dresser! Needless to say if I’m calling them mom and dad, they ended up together—but part of that is due to the fact that after she found out about his trick– she saw it as being saavy and not “cheapskate-like”. Granted, we do not live in the 50s anymore and clothing is much more casual– but it’s an idea that could possibly be used in a different context.
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Talk about it with her!
If you are living a frugal lifestyle, it’s because it’s because saving and or investing is one of your core values. If you’re dating to find a “mate” it should be one that you can communicate with; one who hopefully shares your values.
If I were sitting across the table from a man who started talking about his portfolio and retirement goals and how he bought his used car with cash, I would swoon! Because I would have found someone who I have something very important in common with.
Just my 25 year old, female 2 cents….
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There’s ‘frugal’ and then there’s ‘anal-retentive’ I think people should understand the greys
Amen! Sorry, Dave, wearing a frayed sweatshirt isn’t a sign you’re frugal- it’s a sign you’re too lazy to buy cheap clothes that look nice, which CAN be done. And sorry, Ben, but I don’t believe most women will judge you if you drive an old car- but they will judge you if the car you have looks uncared for. There’s a difference, and it doesn’t have to do with how much you spend, so I don’t like to hear people cry, wah wah, nobody likes me in my dirty car and schlumpy clothes because I’m *frugal*.
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J.D., if you’d met the potential customer when you weren’t on the clock, your point would be valid. As it is… I don’t think so. I can’t think of any job where clothes that are falling apart are appropriate.
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My first inclination was to say “You are not a loser, you are smarter than others.” But then I realized that isn’t the point. I’m a 34 year old married person and I know by being frugal I’m going to have an easier and more fulfilling life. But when you are younger and single it isn’t that easy.
Everyone wants to go on nice dates. But my advice to you is to be yourself. Without a doubt the man should pay on the first date (or even first couple of dates). It is a matter of respect. In that case the male shouldn’t go to Chez Expensive, but rather a nicer, less expensive place – maybe choose a unique Mexican restaurant in the Bohemian part of town instead of a bland chain restaurant. Or even a nice chain place like Olive Garden isn’t bad. On the other hand the female shouldn’t expect Chez Expensive either. When I was dating my future husband in college I knew he had a job and money wasn’t easy come to him – so I didn’t expect the world – I accepted him for who he was.
As for cars I respected those who had older, well cared for cars. I was the same way and I knew why they were doing it. I’m the same way today and I respect it in other people who I know are driving older, nice cars in order to get ahead, too. In fact we just had to choose and accountant and I actually choose the person with the 5 year old well-maintaned Accord over the guy with the 5 series (likely leased) BMW. I just felt my lifestyle was more in common with the well-maintained Accord. And I just couldn’t help but think that the guy in the BMW had to come up with that money from somewhere – probably his clients.
So again be yourself. IT will be reflected in your dates. You’ll end up with a mate in life who shares the same goals as you. Don’t think of yourself as being cheap, think of yourself as having a quality relationship.
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Eh. Everyone seems to be attacking this as if they have THE answer. Some woman like men with money, some don’t care. Some woman who like men with money are honest and sweet and kind and loving. Some woman who don’t care about money are not sweet and kind, etc. You have to make a choice about how you want to live your life, and then understand that that will necessarily limit who you can date. Period. You won’t be attractive to everyone, whether you’re rich, poor, skinny, buff, brainy or dumb as a stump. Some people will dump you because of your bank account, and some will marry you because of your biceps. Some people are ATTRACTED to men who lie to them. I have a friend who was attracted to her husband because he looks like a big Teddy Bear. I don’t see it, but whatever.
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First impressions are hugely important. Don’t wear clothes that are not your size, pay attention to fit: the shoulder of the garment should line up with your shoulder, crotch should be close to your crotch, not slouchy, baggy and messy-looking. If you wear clothes that fit, you will automatically look more presentable. If you are a medium, and wearing an XL t-shirt, you don’t look like you care about what people think of you – and maybe you don’t – but your future wife or husband might!
IMHO, Women love flowers more than expensive dinners, and a single pink rose is just as nice as a dozen, especially in those first few dates when it is super sweet and thoughtful. There are probably some decent vases at your local dollar store that will hold a single rose quite nicely – and why wouldn’t you want to deliver it yourself to see her face light up and that big smile! Delivering it to work, too, is a major way to win points. Ladies love to have flowers on their desks, they get asked over and over who sent flowers, and they’d be saying your name over and over again until that thing dies!
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If the purpose of dating is to find and select a long-term mate, I think that seeking out someone who shares your frugality would be wise.
How many relationships have been destroyed by incompatible views about money? How many couples have sunk into financial crisis because of an unwillingness to address these differing values?
But while you’re still looking, I think the best way to pitch your frugality to a potential mate is by casting it as resourcefulness.
A friend of mine has an absolutely encyclopedic knowledge of all the free happenings here in Chicago, and I am consistently impressed by her ability to find and seize these opportunities.
Knowing where to find the gallery openings, concerts in the park, restaurant openings, etc. demonstrates a creativity, spontanaiety, and resourcefulness that I think would make a favorable impression on just about anyone.
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Reading through all these posts, I think Ben may leave this blog somewhat frustrated. He most certainly already knows cleanliness is a virtue, especially in dating. That’s not rocket science. But his original dilemma and struggles have really not been solved. Having been single not to long ago myself, I sympathize with the issue of being judged. We all make snap judgements about people early on in dating – even the quality girls worth keeping do! I think his struggle with frugality looking cheap to a girl is valid and not an easy thing to fix, despite what everyone here has said.
I liked the suggestion of someone to do an initial low-key (and cheap!) get together (coffee is best) to determine if there might be sparks. Don’t blow much money on a completely unknown quantity or a blind date. If you still are interested and see potential (and think this might be reciprocated), then take her out to dinner. Personally I think it’s too intimidating that early in the dating process to cook for someone and have them at your place. The reality is, you will have to spend money early on, more than your frugal side might like! But if you don’t, you run the risk of seeming cheap. I’m not saying take her to the most expensive restaurant in town – middle range is good. Perhaps somewhere that just opened or had a good review in a culinary magazine (or Zagat). This shows you are thinking and have good taste.
Perhaps another frugal way to spend time with someone early on that won’t be construed as cheap is to invite her to be your date to a party a friend is having. If you have good friends, you can even force them to have a party mainly for this purpose (I’ve done it!).
I don’t see easy answers to Ben’s dilemma. Dating tends to be expensive. There are ways to mitigate it, but like you say, you have to be careful what message you might be sending. Certain people were rescued from the trials and tribulations of casual dating by meeting the right person elsewhere, but others have to struggle through it and make difficult (and financially challenging) choices. I wish you luck!
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