Why I Drive a 13-Year-Old Car Print
Wednesday, 21st January 2009 (by J.D.)This article is about Cars, Choices, Frugality
This is a guest post from Joel Berry.
I recently had a talk with a friend about why I haven’t purchased a new car. He can’t understand why I still drive a 1995 Geo Prizm. I can afford to buy a new car, but I choose not to. The fact is, driving an older car saves me money!
To prove my point, I ran some numbers. I was surprised by how much money I’ve saved by driving this car for so long.
Used vs. new
I bought my Geo Prizm in 1995 with 5,000 miles on it. It now has 140,000 miles on it and still runs fine. I paid off the car in 1999. It is now 2008. I haven’t had a car payment in nine years.
How much has this saved? Our payments for this car were $250 a month. Over nine years, I’ve gone 108 months without making a payment. At $250 a month, that’s a savings of $27,000.
Over the lifetime of the car, I’ve spent less than $2000 in repairs. Subtracting this from my savings still leaves me with $25,000 extra over buying a new car right after the Prizm was paid off.
Using past history as a guide, I can assume that my car will need more repair as time goes on. The most recent repair cost me $1,000. Let’s assume the worst and say I would spend $1,000 a year for every year that I keep the car from this point forward. Now, let’s compare that to the cost of buying a new car.
Assume that I could buy a newer car for about the same $250 payments I had on my Prizm. (I think that number is a little low, but let’s just assume.) That means my annual cost for a new car would be $3000. If we figure that I’ll spend $1000 a year repairing the Prizm, it still saves me $2000 a year over buying a new car. If I were able to keep the car for four more years, that would add $8000 to the $25,000 I’ve already saved.
I will have basically saved $33,000 by driving my old car for a total of 17 years.
Other savings
But wait! That’s not all! I’ve also saved money in several other ways not accounted for in the numbers above. Some examples:
- Cheaper insurance
- No down payment
- I’ve freed up money so that I didn’t have to take on as much debt for other expenses
I’ve also kept the Prizm long enough that the items I did have to replace early on for the car are now covered by a lifetime warranty. Any time my starter, alternator, struts, or brake pads wear out, I can get replacement parts for free from Autozone. I can fix the car for just the cost of labor, or fix them myself.
There are some drawbacks to having an older car. I once had to have the car towed, and then was without a vehicle for five days while it was being repaired. I also spent a few weekends doing work on the car myself in order to keep costs down. The car is starting to rust. And, of course, it no longer has that new car smell.
I didn’t include the cost of oil changes or tires in the numbers for repairs. I figured this was normal wear-and-tear that would have occurred no matter which car I drove.
My goal is to drive the Geo Prizm for another four years. I am going to put away $300 a month. (I’m putting away $300 instead of $250 because the price of cars has gone up since 1995.) I’m putting this money in an ING Direct account to use for car repairs and a down payment on another used car. If this works out, I should have $10,400 set aside for a down payment on my next car, and will have spent an additional $4000 in maintenance for my current car.
I realize this might not work for everybody. And who knows? My next car might not be as good as the Prizm has been. But numbers like these are why I have opted not to buy a new car yet. I have better things to do with my money than to keep up with the Joneses.
J.D.’s note: I think Joel’s story is awesome. Though I complain incessantly about how much I want a new Mini Cooper, the fact is I’m following Joel’s plan, too. I’ll drive my Ford Focus into the ground. This story reminds me of Dave Ramsey’s Drive Free, Retire Rich. Photo by Jami Dwyer.

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January 21st, 2009 at 5:24 am
Great post! If there’s something that you don’t need to buy new, and to replace regularly, it’s your car. We’re seven years into the ownership of the car we bought when we first married. We use public transit and planning so that we have only one car (I know at some point we’ll have to get another one), and we’re hoping to keep driving our current car for another few years. We love that we have it paid off, and we love that the insurance on it is cheap.
January 21st, 2009 at 5:26 am
But your accounting is fuzzy, at best. By dispatching your car payment of $250 monthly after four years, you are now “saving” $250 monthly indefinitely? What if you had only financed the ‘95 Prism for one year instead of four? Then your monthly payments would have been close to $1000; let’s say $10,000 for the year. And you would have paid it off by 1996, right, so that’s 13 years ago, let’s see, carry the one…if you had just financed this for one year instead of four, by your logic you would have now “saved” $130,000 instead of $27,000. You can take this anywhere, and that’s the problem, it’s nonsensical.
The only way to do this is to do a basic accounting analysis starting with your capital investment (the initial cost of the car), its depreciation, and its current or salvage value. Yes, you should factor in the cost of carrying the debt to pay for the car, but don’t get too fancy.
If that’s too complicated, then just do this. How much did you pay for the car? How much is it worth now? The difference is your depreciation. That’s one cost. Now add up all your other costs (fuel, insurance, maintenance). Now you have your total costs. You can divide that by years of service (cost per year) or by miles driven (cost per mile).
If you compare it to a more expensive car, or a car that you would replace every two or three years, then absolutely, by all means, you’re saving a ton of money. But not really based on the way you wrote.
I’m not trying to be harsh, but the point of these sites is to make personal finances clear and understandable. Americans who are not necessarily strong at math are bombarded with this kind of fuzzy accounting by marketers (working in the other direction) all the time.
It’s important to understand how to account correctly.
Personally, I agree with all your principles. We’ve got two six year old cars that better have at least that same amount of life left in them.
January 21st, 2009 at 5:30 am
Don’t forget however that the repairs you are making for your old car are a sunk cost. On the other hand the monthly payments you will make for the new car are building equity (even though new cars depreciate very fast), so the equation isn’t as cut and dried as you might think.
January 21st, 2009 at 5:32 am
You are very lucky though to only have put in $2000 in repairs. I had a 1998 Saturn SW1 that last year alone I put in $2000 in repairs. This plan works depending on the car. If you have a car that is and will be dependable it works. If your car costs more in repairs it does not work. The $2000 I spent in repairs is about $166.67/month not to mention the time cost of going to the repair shop.
January 21st, 2009 at 5:34 am
JD,
About 2 years ago, I got my first real “career-break” and landed a job where I was being paid relatively well compared to what I had previously been earning. The job was a good 45 miles away, though (but with zero traffic). After 2 months at that job my ‘94 Mazda Protege gave out on me. It was going to cost about $800 in P&L to get her up on her feet again. I was faced with a decision - patch up the dented, rusting and ugly-looking (though I loved her dearly) Protege or get a new car…well like yourself, I had been wanting a MINI Cooper for a VERY long time. I decided to do it, and found a pre-owned 2006 which had only been slightly used (had like 4k miles on it) and made the purchase.
In retrospect, it was a very, very unwise thing for me to do from a money-perspective. I could afford the payments, but I was still ~10k in debt between student loans and CC bills and I had absolutely no emergency fund to speak of.
Luckily for me, I landed an even better job later that year and I was able to pay off the whole vehicle in a few months. Though I consider my personal finance “smarts” mucher higher now than it was back then, I would still do the whole thing all over again, even not knowing that I would be able to pay it off so quickly. And I’ll tell you why…
I love my MINI.
January 21st, 2009 at 5:35 am
I am following the same sort of plan. Our cars are considerably younger than the Geo Prizm (2004 and 2005) but they are both paid off and we intend to drive them until the fall apart beneath us. When the second car was paid off, we started putting the same amount we paid on the car payment every month into and ING account. That money is for a down payment someday but it is also to be used for any repair bills that come up. Not regular maintenance like oil changes etc. but for bigger, unexpected things.
The only thing I am somewhat worried about is because both cars are a similar age that we will have to replace them at the same time (or close to it). My hope is that we will be able to pay cash for at least one of them or at the very least have a significant down payment for both. Hopefully I won’t have to worry about that for quite some time though.
January 21st, 2009 at 5:36 am
here in Brazil things are a little more complicated. you buy a new car for like 10.000 dollars and after 10 years it is still worth 60% of that amount.
this happens because most people dont have money to buy new cars, so the used ones have great value.
i have a 1995 chevrolet vectra cd, which is worth some 6.000 dollars.
crazy, isnt it?
at least the good about used cars here is that most people dont have insurance on it. i dont. and the annual tax over cars is like 4% of its value. less tax too.
and my car has a 2 liter engine, air-conditioner, all whistles and bells, stuff that new and cheap cars dont even dream of having.
ah yes, i was almost forgetting: here we dont have the habit of leasing cars and be paying them every month for all our lives. people who have more money do that, but most people buy used cars, either cash or financed, and then keep them for several years. we dont put car payments as a monthly expense.
January 21st, 2009 at 5:38 am
I’ve driven a 98 prizm for 7 years and recently graduated college with a well paying engineering job. All my friends are buying new cars and laughing that I’m still with the Prizm. I couldn’t care less since I’m saving so much. I took it in stride and created the PrizmPimp screename as a joke.
Good choice on the Prizm, it’s such a reliable car. Aside from tires and oil, my repairs have probably only averaged $300 a year with the exception of one year when I spent $1000.
January 21st, 2009 at 5:46 am
I bought a brand new honda accord last year after driving my 93 camry into the ground (225k miles). I’ve already paid it off and plan to drive this one into the ground too.
Oh and if you’re worried I overpaid for a new car, don’t. I was well below invoice and for the first 6 months I could have resold the car for a profit at private sale.
January 21st, 2009 at 5:50 am
Our cars are 10 and 22 years old, we can easily afford new ones, but don’t because the ones we have are perfectly sufficient. The 22 yr old car, ferries my wife back and forth from the train station, and the 10 year old car does the rest. On top of the savings, driving older cars is incredibly green. The manufacture of cars uses vast amounts of fossil fuels. The cost of replacement parts was a tiny fraction of that.
Alas the 10 year old car is getting less reliable, and we feel it is time to buy a new one. But I feel like a new car every 10 years is pretty reasonable.
PS We will probably keep all 3 cars. Put the newest car in the garage for family time and long trips, Give me wife the 10 year old sedan for trips to the station, and I keep the 22 yr old car for daily things around town. That might enable us to get 12-15 years on the new car!
January 21st, 2009 at 5:53 am
My wife and I are following this philosophy now too.
We are still paying off my 2002 Subaru Forester we bought used in 2006 (about $5600 left on that loan), but we are about to switch our debt snowball to that loan with the goal of paying it off this year.
My wife’s car just died (a 1997 Dodge Neon that we road into the ground), but my grandparents decided to give us their 1993 Saab 900S Convertible that had been in storage for over a year. It has 160k on it, but is free and it runs great. Needs a few things here and there, but for a 16-year-old car, it is in amazing shape.
My goal after the Subaru is to never have a car payment again. After this, its monthly payment goes into the debt snowball to pay off our student loans.
January 21st, 2009 at 5:54 am
Yep. That’s why I drive my 1995 Geo Metro. It’s mine, it’s paid for, and it runs fine. That’s all it needs to do. I’ll drive it until it falls apart.
January 21st, 2009 at 5:57 am
I agree with keeping a car past the end of payments - to a point.
If I’m going to drive a 20-year old car, it is most certainly *not* going to be a domestic econobox.
As a husband and father of four children, safety is sometimes more important than saving money, so I’m willing to pay a wee bit more for maintenance on a larger car with a better safety record.
(e.g. a previously enjoyed Accord or Camry)
January 21st, 2009 at 5:58 am
I drive a 13-year-old car, too (it’s a ‘96 model, but it was manufactured in November 1995). The way I see it, when you buy a car, you might get a good one and you might get a lemon, but when you have 170,000 miles on a car, you know you have a good one.
January 21st, 2009 at 6:00 am
I LOLed at the lack of “new car smell” comment.
Here’s a (currently) unquantifiable benefit to driving your old car:
The “new car smell” is actually the off-gassing of VOCs (volatile organic compounds). These are bad for your health. Some VOCs are thought to trigger cancer.
So by driving a car that’s done off-gassing, you’re saving your body too.
January 21st, 2009 at 6:05 am
@Ryan2 - excellent points, thank you.
I agree with the post wholeheartedly except for one issue which isn’t mentioned directly: it partly depends upon where you live and to a degree, your family situation. If my wife were still in her 30’s and was carting our two young sons around, I would not feel comfortable with her in a 13 year old car driving down I-80 in the middle of Nebraska. In the winter.
Other than that, of course it makes sense to hang onto older vehicles and get your money out of them. But when the car’s proclivity for breaking down exceeds your tolerance for risk, you may want to consider a late model used replacement.
Good post.
January 21st, 2009 at 6:08 am
Buying used is also the way to go as well. Two years (especially cars just off a short lease) can be some of the best deals around.
A car depreciates (depending who’s doing the talking I imagine) around 30% in the first two years. So just rolling a new car off the lot as the first owner costs you about 15% of the sale price.
Two year old cars are generally still fully covered under warranty (except the new 2-year Tesla bandwagon others might jump in on), and if you can find one with low KMs (say about 16 000KM or 10 000 miles per year) you can get a real winner of a car. I won’t talk to much about our - but do your research!
We saved about $10,000 buying our used car and nothing other than regular maintenance (oil + brakes + regular checkups).
On the flip side, this gem of a car I’ve been going on and on about replaces another used car that was the opposite.
Bought at 13 years of age, it was a cheap Camry. It was a money pit. By the time I’d sunk my first $3000 into it, I had tricked myself into thinking that every problem thereafter was the last. I got rid of it for a huge loss. In that particular case, a $250 investment (or less) in a mechanic looking the car over pre-purchase would have been the investment to make.
Still, I do love me the automobile even if both my wife and I mostly use our legs and public transit now.
January 21st, 2009 at 6:09 am
Our car was bought used in 2005 (it’s a 2003), and we paid it off last year. We’re now saving cash for repairs and/or the day we may need a second vehicle.
When my husband’s truck was rear-ended and totaled, we decided not to buy a second vechile just yet, which has saved us a ton of money. It’s not always an easy arrangment b/c we don’t live near public transit routes, but it’s been worth the effort.
January 21st, 2009 at 6:11 am
I may not have time at the moment to write articles, but I can squeeze in a few minutes to leave a comment.
As I mentioned at the end of this post, although I do very much want a Mini Cooper, I’m satisfied to drive my Focus into the ground. I bought it new on 08 December 2000. It’s got a ways to go, I’m sure. (I hope.)
My wife is doing the same with her car, too. She has a 1996 Honda Civic (with only 60,000 miles on it!). She wants a new Prius. But she, too, is content to continue driving her vehicle until it runs no more.
Right now, I figure about $1000 a year for maintenance on the Focus. That’s a lot, but it’s less than what it would cost to buy a new car. And the thing is, since I’ve been working from home, my driving has declined significantly. I’m driving about 500 miles per month!
All the same, if I manage to obtain some sort of windfall, I just might by a Mini…
January 21st, 2009 at 6:12 am
This plan only has one loophole I can think of: safety. Safety features have improved since 1995. How can one only consider monies saved when safety is involved?
January 21st, 2009 at 6:13 am
I love this article. I’m 23-years-old and drive an eight/nine-year-old car (a year 2000 model, which I don’t consider old) that I bought used in 2006. I plan to drive it until it falls apart. I get disgusted when I see my friends who, like me, are starting their first real jobs out of college, and who are buying new cars “because they deserve it” - like graduating college is such a hardship (get over yourselves…) that the only way to reward yourselves is to put yourself into debt, paying off a car you can’t afford.
January 21st, 2009 at 6:15 am
I learned two things about cars from a friend who was an investment advisor:
1) Most of his $1 million (and up) net worth clients drove to his office in old cars. Some were beaters.
2) “The only thing that depreciates faster than a car is food.”
This is why I drive a 1997 Honda CR-V with over 127K miles. I hear Chad sitting on my shoulder talking me down whenever I visit edmunds.com.
January 21st, 2009 at 6:17 am
I am right with you as I have a long since paid off 1994 Sentra that is quite a spectacle to look at, but continues to run without any repairs. I only paid 5k for it 7 years ago. We have two children and the two door and very small nature of it are an inconvenience, but how really cares. I have bigger dreams and things to focus my energy on.
We have 3k-5k saved for a new used car whenever it should go.
Somehow I take solace and pride in the fact that I drive a junker. It also helps curb materialism!
January 21st, 2009 at 6:23 am
Great post! I drive a ‘92 Sunbird and as a 26 year old I get a lot of looks from my peers who ask me “why not buy a new car,” to which I respond much the same as you did.
I also work with teenagers…who thought it was kind of lame until they got to know the why behind it. Now they think it’s cool because it’s “retro.”
I have money to buy a “new” car (Read: used, but new to me) but will wait a few more years to see what I can get out of my Sunbird.
On the whole, the less you rotate through cars the better (unless you get an occassional lemon).
January 21st, 2009 at 6:25 am
We do it slightly differently in our family.
We keep one nice car (a Mercedes) and use it when we go on trips, want to be comfortable, etc.
For the daily stuff, my wife drives a 5 year old Toyota Corolla that is still in excellent shape and probably has at least another 3 to 5 years on it.
Maintenance has been less than $1,000 per year, BUT I’m expecting that I’ll have to probably put in more than that over the next few years (but it’s still worth it).
SO, we have an every day car that my wife can drive (which she loves) AND we have a nice car to use for business and pleasure . . .
Plus, once every year or two my business requires me to do a cross country driving trip (about 10,000 miles or more), so it’s nice to do so in a VERY comfortable car.
January 21st, 2009 at 6:28 am
I drove my first car, a plymouth neon, for 10 years. I’m amazed your maintenance costs were so low, mine on that little car were definitely higher. Lots of little things broke and I finally got tired of all the problems. I then bought way too much car! I finally paid that off this year and I hope to drive this car another 10 years. It will be great for when we have kids, has all the safety features and still makes me smile. Buying a car that you will be happy with for years is part of that equation.
January 21st, 2009 at 6:32 am
There is a guy I work with who is a really cheap guy. Not frugal but cheap. For me frugal = good. Cheap = bad. He has a 95 Honda accord, which is starting to break down on him. His windshield cracked and it cost him $800 because he has to get some rust around the window fixed first. I have trouble investing $800 in a car that is probable worth $50. I told him to get rid of the car then. Well the next week his break lines went. Guess what I told him. After he spent just over a thousand dollars fixing that. The engine started making a bad sound and it quite on him. I am not sure what it cost him to fix. Oh he also had new breaks put on it.
Now let’s say that nothing else goes wrong with the car. Can you put a price on his life? What is your life worth? It was one thing after another. Can you trust a car like that? He makes really good money 6 figures. He lives for free with his brother. He has been making the 6 figures for 8 years now. Never lived on his own. I don’t think that he has ever paid rent. I think that he is 43. Anyway’s I am all up for saving money. My last car was held together with rust but I trusted the car. As soon as I thought it was not safe I ditched it. My Life and my families lives are worth way more then the cost of a new car. That is just my two cents. There is a time and a place to save, but not when your life could be at risk.
Just a thought.
January 21st, 2009 at 6:34 am
This post is pretty relevant to me. I have a ‘01 Nissan Maxima with 180k miles on it. These things seem to run forever, and at this point, I might as well run it until it dies, since the resale value is pretty much nil.
The plan is to save money now so we have $10-$15k banked up when we do need a replacement car. Trying to avoid payments at all costs!
January 21st, 2009 at 6:39 am
Good idea and inspiring, but as Ryan2 (above) posted, unfortunately, the calculations don’t make much sense.
When you buy a car, it is worth some amount of money initially, and then depreciates over time with use. So each year that you have it, you’re “saving” less money, because you can only “save” the value of your car. Once it’s worth practically nothing (i.e. only scrap), you save nothing. And in fact, it may actually cost you money, because of upkeep expenses.
The calculation that you need to do is: how much did I initially spend, how much has the car depreciated, how much can I sell it for now, how much does it cost for upkeep, and how much will it cost me to replace it.
As Ryan2 pointed out, it’s important not to get confused by the numbers.
January 21st, 2009 at 6:42 am
We have two beaters, a 1991 Chevy and a 1995 Honda (40 mpg), both pass the 240,000 mark. Even though they both were running fine, we took them to a local mechanic for a maintence workover this past summer.
We have the cash to, but never have and never will buy new.
January 21st, 2009 at 6:44 am
That’s a AMAZINGLY silly way of calculating the cost of a car. There is no direct relation between the cost of a car and the payments.
The correct way is to say that the cost of a car is equal to value-loss, plus repairs. So a new car will generally have a larger value-loss, but less repairs.
A new $20K car can easily lose 20% of it’s value in the first year, or $4K, which makes it expensive, even if has zero repairs needed.
The most inexpensive car to drive, is the one where the sum of value-loss and repairs is the lowest possible. That’s hard to know beforehand — you can get lucky and have a $3K car work for a year with zero repairs, or you can get unlucky and buy a $20K car that nevertheless requires significant repairs.
What is certain is that the first 2-3 years are expensive. Buying a 3 year old car and driving it until it’s 13 is almost certainly going to be better than buying a new car and driving it until it’s 10.
On the other hand, buying a 15 year old car and driving it for the next 10 years probably isn’t a smart idea, quite likely the repairs will cost more than you save.
In addition to this, a newer car can be more fuel-efficient, safer, more dependable and more comfortable. The first of these is directly financially important, the rest also has some value to people, how much depend on personal preference.
January 21st, 2009 at 6:49 am
Another advantage to driving an older car–less likely to have it broken into or stolen! I typically drive my cars for 10-12 years (around the time that the cost of maintenance and the inconvenience of breakdowns begins to eat into the benefit of driving an old car). Driving an old car isn’t a guarantee it won’t be broken into or stolen, of course, but I do think it lowers your chances! Also, I tend not to be stressed about little dings, worried about having the car “keyed,” etc. I always feel more stressed out the first 2-3 years driving my “new” car.
January 21st, 2009 at 6:51 am
I think I’d rather be broke than drive a Geo Prism.
January 21st, 2009 at 6:58 am
My dad used to always say that there was never a good reason to take out a loan to buy a car. Thus far in my life, I never have. Of course, I’ve driven some pretty junky cars, especially when I was younger.
I recently bought a new car (to me). I sold my 95 mercury for a nominal value and purchased a 2004 Toyota Camry. I paid all cash for the purchase. I don’t know if it was a good decision or not. It would be nice to have that 11k back, but I also have a car that starts every morning and gets me to work. Plus, I work in a field where clients may make judgments based on your appearance (including what you drive).
January 21st, 2009 at 7:01 am
I employee this exact same philosophy!
I currently drive a 2000 Jeep Cherokee. I bought it used & currently still owe on it, but plan on driving it well after I’ve paid it off.
Great article…people should REALLY take note of this article. Yes it goes against popular opinion, but isn’t that what we have to do to “Get Rich Slowly”??
DebtFreek!
January 21st, 2009 at 7:09 am
Not everything is as nice as it looks at first glance. Firstly, here in Europe (at least in Poland) owning an older car actually makes your insurance more expensive. The insurance company assumes that the older the car gets the more accident prone it is. Secondly, having an older car may save you money only when it is a fairly dependable car. Sometimes buing sth new is more profitable because it brokes less often. What’s more, older cars tend to have less economical engines, which means you’re going to spend more on gas. However, this post is still a nice tip as upcoming legislation from EU will derogate earlier regulations which forced car manufacturers to publish car specification in order to allow anyone to produce equivalent spare parts. If the new legislation will come in force, only the authorised service stations will have the proper parts and knowledge to repair the car. Driving a rusty, old diesel may then proove even more frugal.
January 21st, 2009 at 7:09 am
I drove an 89 Nissan Stanza from 93-05. My parents bought the car for me used and I just pocketed the money saving for my next car. In 05 I got rid of the Nissan w/150 mi on it. I bought an 01 Acura for $18k. I paid cash. I’m still driving the car and its still a very nice car. And its still worth $7k or so.
Last year I did put about $1600 in repairs in it. First off I bought a new set of Michelins in January (good for another 65k miles). Then in December I had the timing belt, water pump and 90k mi service done (at an independent mechanic I know and trust). So I fully plan to drive this car for about 4 more years when I should be at 120k miles. I’ll reevaluate my plan at that point.
My husband prefers to buy a new car for himself - as long as his “wants” are modest he comes out ok if he drives the car 12 years or more. We basically try to keep the cost of the car (minus repairs, gas, maintenance) to less than $2k per year. In other words I paid $18k for the Acura I have to drive it 9 years. He paid $24k for his Camry - he has to drive it 12 years. OF course things will happen - like accidents and family changes that might require a different type of car. But we try to stick to the $2k/year cost.
January 21st, 2009 at 7:10 am
Great post! What’s great about driving your car into the ground is that it’s a strategy that everyone that drives can implement. Put it in your plan to drive your car for at least 10+ years and watch your savings account grow!
-Jorge
January 21st, 2009 at 7:15 am
Ryan2, Gunnar,
I think it’s a perfectly reasonable way to calculate the savings. Here’s my justification:
The geo was worth what $13,000 new? After 4 years, maybe it’s worth half $6,500? But, what most people do is trade it in (trade in value $4,000), they get a more expensive car, maybe $17,000. They have the same loan, $13,000, and the same payment, and only one car. They 2nd car might be nicer, but it still has 4 tires and one steering wheel.
That’s the argument made, and if you look at the expenses that people incur when they get into the car swapping cycle, this is an extremely good estimate.
The problem with the depreciation estimation is that you described is that it tells you how to estimate the cost/yr or cost/mile of his geo, but there are a lot more steps to calculating the cost of the new cars each year, and you’d end up with almost the same number, if you get every step. Finance, dealer vs FSBO price. In Ryan’s counter example, if the alternative to the geo was buying a new car, with the same car payment at the end of ten months, then the geo will save you $130,000.
In my experience, buying used, and keeping in the long run means that you can buy your way out of almost any mechanical problems. I think it’s a given truth that repairing a car is going to be cheaper than buying another car (even if it’s used).
January 21st, 2009 at 7:21 am
Hi,
why drive a car at all? I commute to work by subway, which is cheaper then the gas only. And faster.
From time to time I’m renting a car for the weekend. Which is about 90€ for the whole weekend.
And I’m a member of a car sharing community. I can pickup cars anywhere in the city. This costs about 2.30 € an hour plus 0.24 € per km. Including the gas.
So my annual costs are less then 2500€. And I’m always having a car that smells new
January 21st, 2009 at 7:23 am
I actually like your way of thinking ’saving’ the car payment every month. It’s using the same philosophy as Dave Ramsay’s snowball method of paying off lowest cc debt first to gain a sense of accomplishment which leads to more confidence and less liklihood of abandoning your new and improved budgeting ways. Guess the critics are not seeing the philosophy behind it!!
Concrete thinking is depressing.
January 21st, 2009 at 7:23 am
Great Post! My car is going on 10. And until it no longer runs, it will be my car. I think though when you do have to buy a car, you should try to find something not too old to make sure you get the benefits of the milage and hopefully some warranty. Just not new.
January 21st, 2009 at 7:24 am
We try to avoid investing in depreciating assets, too. Most cars are transportation, not investments.
Our current cars are a 1994 Toyota Corolla (165k) and a 2002 Honda Odyssey (80k). They look a bit trashy, but we’re OK with that. They run fine.
We’ve had a few expensive repairs on the Corolla over the past 3 years, but they’ve been a lot less than a replacement used car.
I remember someone asking Click and Clack when it’s time to stop paying to repair a car, and they said that when the repaired car is worth less than the repair *to you*, then it’s time to give in. We haven’t gotten there yet, but we set a ceiling estimate number whenever we take one of the cars in for repairs.
January 21st, 2009 at 7:25 am
Or you could ride a bike, walk and take public transportation. If you have a gym membership, you won’t need it if you bike and walk. If you skip using your car even 20% of the time, think of the money you’d save, the wear and tear you’d save on your car, and the health benefits. I won’t go into the environmental benefits!
January 21st, 2009 at 7:26 am
As some of the comments above have mentioned, this type of money savings is highly dependent on the individual car, but it also depends on where you live.
In 2003 I was driving a 1994 Dodge Spirit with 169K on it. The engine still ran perfectly, and it never gave me any problems. My problem, however, was that I was moving from New York to Pennsylvania. In New York they use a ton of salt on the roads in the winter, and everyone that lives there knows that no matter how much you was your car it will eventually take a toll on the sheet metal. So the car had some rust holes in it that were completely cosmetic issues and was perfectly legal in New York. When I had the car inspected in PA (one month after getting it inspected in NY), they said in order to pass state inspection I would need to get body work done on the car that would have cost me in excess of the car’s worth. Even though the car ran perfectly and still had plenty of life in it, I was forced to give it up because it had rust on it. Every time I drive up to NY now and see 20-yr-old pick-up trucks with only a third of the rear fender left due to rust, I am always a little bitter.
January 21st, 2009 at 7:29 am
@Emily; and yet I think it’s important to look at things we do in as large a frame of reference as possible, because everything you mentioned should weigh into any decision.
And it’s a pretty easy, logic argument to make for decreased dependance on the automobile.
OFFTOPIC Warning
I bet if one were to chart the easy access to car loans, with the popularity of tvs and cross reference to obesity we’d see a pretty big increase around there.
I got pretty chubby after I got my first car. I used to bike everywhere. It was a challenge to work back towards what I had going right in the first place.
January 21st, 2009 at 7:30 am
We just bought a new (to us) car this past fall, we saved up and bought the car with cash. I had been driving a 1999 paid for car that I hated. In the same time period that I owned the 1999 car I have a friend who leased two cars (her first least cost $500 a month and her second lease is $700 a month and she still has student loan debt) and I have another friend who is on his fourth car. Those car payments add up my friend leased her first car for 3 year years and then renewed because she wasn’t sure what to do, she spent more than $25,000 on that first lease (I bought my nused car for less than $20,000).
January 21st, 2009 at 7:31 am
I was able to pay off a new 1992 Honda Accord within 6 months, and it was still going strong in the fall of 2008 with 252,000 miles when I hit a deer :(. While I had some high maintenance years (up to $2000 on a really bad year), all maintenance costs (including oil changes) averaged to less than $70/month for the life of the car. And my insurance was down to less than $50/month. And I did splurge on occasional detailing (~$130 and worth every penny - I only did it 2 or 3 times over the 16 years), so the car didn’t quite have a new car smell, but it was close :).
Unfortuntely, with my current circumstances I did have to go into debt to buy a used car, but my payments are only $139/month, and I work at home now, so maintenance and gas are really low for me.
I would have driven that car another 10 years if I could - not just because of the money, but as others have mentioned, it’s actually really nice to have a car that you really don’t care if it gets banged up, or even totalled (so long as no one gets hurt - I mean, I really do feel for the deer, but no one else was hurt). It was awesome that I knew for years that no matter what happened to that car, I was already so far ahead by keeping it for so long.
So many people didn’t get why I would continue to drive the same car for so long - but that’s okay, I don’t get those people, either.
January 21st, 2009 at 7:33 am
I too have an older car, a 1993 Honda Civic. I bought it new in 1993 and paid it off in 2.5 years. It has been the best running car I’ve ever had, only about $2500 of repairs in the last 16 years. I simply like my car, so that’s one reason I haven’t updated, the other reason is I can only put so much away per month, but I am almost there so when my Civic finally gives up, I’ll be ready. Great post.
January 21st, 2009 at 7:38 am
We do basically the same thing. DH drives an ‘01 that has 120k and runs great. I got a “new” car (2002 with 60k) in April ‘08 and sold my ‘92 with 185k very cheap.
January 21st, 2009 at 7:53 am
Good post, good plan. We are working the same plan. The only thing I see is that you said you “saved” $27,000. That is only true if you actually saved the money. I assume from the later comment that you are now putting $300 a month into an ING account and that you will have about $10,000 for a down payment soon, that you weren’t actually saving your savings. Had you done so you would have had around $40,000 in four years. That would have allowed you to pay cash for a pretty sweet new car.
Not criticizing. I made the same mistake. We haven’t had a car payment in seven years, but we also weren’t saving the savings until a couple of years ago. I now have almost $10,000 set aside for another car, but I’m kicking myself for not saving my savings for the past seven years. $10,000 is great, but I have come to love the no-car-payment life and $10,000 won’t buy a new car. We will keep driving our old one as long as we can and hope to get as close to a paid-off new one as possible.
January 21st, 2009 at 7:59 am
@anne (36) and jeffeb3 (35),
You’re basing the amount that you’re “saving” by not having a car payment on what seems to be a standard amount for a car payment. So what happens if Americans suddenly start spending alot less on cars, as is happening now? Are you now “saving” less than you were previously, because the average benchmark has gone down? No, of course not. You can’t calculate what you’re saving based on some potential arbitrary cost that you’re avoiding. The person who buys a bunch of Stuff with coupons didn’t save money, he spent it, albeit for somewhat less than full price.
If the way of thinking “I’m saving a car payment” works for you, that’s great as far as mental motivation. I understand that personal finance is as much mental as it is mathematical. And to a certain extent, you’re right to do that when you’re tempted, looking at a new car, for example. It’s good to say, “Well, by not buying that new car, I’m saving $300 each month.” What you’re really saying is “Acquiring that new car will cost me $300 additionally each month, and I would rather save that money instead.”
You save money by setting actual dollars aside and putting it in the bank (or whatever).
It’s a tough argument to make to try to claim that you’re saving money whenever you spend less than what the average American spends on a similar product or service. And that’s basically what you and the author are trying to do. Well I would/should/could be spending X, and now I’m not, so I’m saving $X. Maybe.
Many people go to the movies; I prefer Netflix. So I’m saving, let’s say, $30 a month. Many people take yearly vacations for $5,000 a year. I don’t always do that, so that’s ALOT of money that I just saved. Wow, I’m doing great, aren’t I?
If you haven’t made a deposit into an account, you haven’t saved anything. You may have avoided a potential cost, I’ll grant you that, but that’s not the whole picture.
I don’t mean to attack the methods that work for you. We’re all in agreement here about the importance of frugality issue. This is simply nitpicking the details, and I’m doing so because the author told the story in a very numbers and accounting style, and that’s just not accurate.
The easiest way, at least for me, to think about cars is as an expense. They’re an expense I have to endure in exchange for the transportation they provide. For me, I like to manage these expenses similarly to how a business would–a capital investment that has a tangible but depreciating value that provides a useful service.
January 21st, 2009 at 8:05 am
Great post! I am from a family of “drive that car into the ground”. Yeah!! There’s others like me!!
My last used car (pd cash $5300) looked pretty bad after 10 years of driving it. After one accident I was left with an off color replacement hood. I suffered years of jeers from friends for the two tone car with the paint splatter flanks (drove over a wet line on the road). I didnt care! Why? Because I saved 30k in 10 years driving that ugly (yet v. reliable) car.
It is nice to see the post break it down. I never did the math other than the “car payment” to savings + interest. I didnt subtract repairs because I only had one major one and all cars eventually need maintanence/repair. When I did need the (only) big repair, new the part was $1100; salvage yards, $700 + labor to fix. Everyone said “Oooh buy a new car! $700 is like TWO car payments!!” I’m like, uh, yeah, two out of SIXTY! ACK!!!
Frankly, I’m afraid of car payments. I’ve never had one and dont want to start now.
PS: My current car is a 1996. I dontated my 1993 car to charity. It was still running fine, but a family member had the ‘96 car to give. Also in good condition, low miles. I’m hoping to at least get three years out of it *knock on wood* if not more.
I do miss that old ugly car though *sniffle*
January 21st, 2009 at 8:09 am
Point of trivia for other readers: This post did not start out as a post. It was an e-mail that Joel sent to a friend. As an afterthought, he forwarded a copy to me. I polished some rough edges, and voila!
What I’m trying to say is: I think this real-life stuff is awesome, and if you have similar stories to contribute, I’m happy to share them with GRS readers.
January 21st, 2009 at 8:10 am
You can do all the calculations you want, but, honetly, the one thing you’re not likely come up with is a financial justification for buying a new car over the one you currently own. There are only two reasons that it really ever makes sense to replace your car:
1. It is no longer safe. This is a very important reason and must not be overlooked when performing your calculations.
2. You really just absolutely can’t stand your car anymore and it makes a negative impact on your quality of life. Happiness and general satisfaction with life are things of value. If you can’t stand waiting 45 minutes in the winter for the interior of your car to get warm or you can no longer stand the uncertainty of wondering when you’ll have to make your next repair, get different car.
Just make sure you stay within your means and don’t plan on trading it in as soon as the new models start showing up in magazines. In my experience, an ill-considered car purchase is the one thing that most commonly sends people over the edge financially.
January 21st, 2009 at 8:10 am
I have a 2000 focus, which I have had for 4 years now with over 120,000 miles on the clock.
Bought second hand for £3500, current price about £2900, which is pretty good for deprecation.
It looks good, and even with client visits, never lets me down on the appearance front. Some subtle accessories (beautiful new large alloys £150 from eBay) help.
I have always kept my cars for as long as possible, and done repairs myself, apart from a recent non-insurance claim accident.
I also find I can get around £500 - £750 for breaker parts for the old vehicles I strip. This also helps in terms of the overall running costs for the vehicles life, there are always bits in good condition left over and people to buy them, no matter how old the car.
I look at around £500 per year in maintenance, eBay is brilliant for getting the prices down (dealer quote, £900 for disks and pads fitted, me in the garage with branded pads and about an hour, £50).
NB: The focus is not know for rusting, but one of the rear doors had some internal flaking, replacement off eBay for £35, mate painting it as a favour for some work I did for him, (professional indistinguishable job, free)
January 21st, 2009 at 8:21 am
My 1998 Honda Accord EX(Bought new)has less than 68K miles!
Though the dark blue paint has badly faded from the roof,,trunk and hood due to the unforgiving Miami sun,the car still runs great,with just some minor aches like noisy power windows on cold days.
I bought new tires and replaced brake pads at 38K miles(In 2003!….may have to do that again soon).Had the timing belt and water pump replaced at 60K(In 2007)..Oil changes and other maintenance performed on it every 8K miles or so….All these things bringing my maintenance expense to around $400/year on average since I paid the car off in 2003.
I still carry full coverage including comprehensive,for which I pay $956/year(Miami is an expensive city for auto insurance)…I may drop the comprehensive portion and save about $300 a year.
The interiors still shine with semi-annual Armor-All treatment(which does leave a “new car smell”)
On hind-sight, I realize it was a good idea to have bought a higher-end model like this one instead of a cheaper model,though I took a lot of slack when I admitted buying it brand new on
the various frugality newsgroups at the time.
I admit that I may feel slightly embarrased when I park next to all those shiny Escalades,Lexus and Audis that abound in Miami. or if I had to use valet-parking..but then…I think of so many people I know with $600 a month car payments and leases…. and I do the happy dance!
January 21st, 2009 at 8:21 am
I have a 13-year old BMW 3-series which I bought brand new. 13 years later, and 130,000 km it still looks great and drives great. And most of all I am happy that it has survived this long, and cost so little to maintain. I’ve owned other cars previously (and drove them into the ground too) but they were far more expensive to own than this little guy.
January 21st, 2009 at 8:22 am
I found things a little different when owning a car. My first car purchase was 1994 for around $10.8k, Nissan. I kept the car another 14 years. I managed to sink roughly $11k in maintenance–I’m very surprised (suspect) of your $2k repairs. But mine included all the tires, 4 sets or so ($500 each time). But not fuel–major expense. Changing clutch, starter, water pump, etc is like another $3k. So, it adds up quickly. A timing belt replacement is $600 alone. Bottom line, allocating at least $500 a year for a car is required. Another $1000 on fuel, another $500-750 for insurance, etc. I estimated any car is at least a $3k per year cost. Also, as a car gets older so do repairs. At 8 years my car cost $3k to keep. But cost went down after that. At the 14 year mark I figured keeping it would start costing too much money so I sold it for $2.5k, a good deal for 1993 (15 year old) car. Did buy a new car, but paid cash…good thing too, and sold stocks/mutual funds that would have lost 30% had I not done that. So, I actually have come out ahead by buying new even when you account for depreciation lost (10%) driving it off the lot. I will note, that next time I will buy used (~4 years when our 10 year old car needs replacing). New is nice…but not necessarily better.
January 21st, 2009 at 8:25 am
Nice breakdown of the expenses. I have a 2001 Saturn SL1 that is fully paid off and have not had to make any payments in almost two years. I hope to drive it for at least 10 more. My only concern is that it doesn’t have the safety features that some of the newer vehicles have. However, this car is used to drive to and from my work (60 miles per week). As long as you keep up with the maintenance on the vehicle, you should be all set.
January 21st, 2009 at 8:31 am
My van is 46 years old (1962 Ford). I put in a new (someone else’s old) engine last year for $300. I do all the repairs myself. I feel grateful to have a vehicle.
January 21st, 2009 at 8:32 am
I agree, it so depends on the car. My ‘88 Volvo 240 had to be donated this past spring. I was LUCKY that it lasted the six years I had it and that I only put $400 in repairs during the time I owned it. Not to mention driving a 275K+ mile car on some of the steepest city hills in the country (San Francisco) on an original clutch That is extremely rare. I don’t expect to be that lucky again!
My grandmother’s ‘87 Nissan Maxima retired a few years ago at 350K miles and she never put more than $1500 in repairs. I dont expect to see that again!
January 21st, 2009 at 8:40 am
no time to read all these comments! so many already!
I just wanted to say that i drive a Kia Hatchback which costs NEW only 15K. a Kia 4-door can be had for only 10K. So, the author could just buy a brand new car that has a ten year warrenty with the money they’re putting aside when they’re ready.
I like the idea of running a car into the ground. I just didn’t feel comfortable enough to do my own car work, and i don’t have a garage do to that in, which are the two main reasons i decided to go with a brand new car, but only one with a ten year warrenty.
Everyone have a good day! (won’t be following up)
January 21st, 2009 at 8:42 am
I’m sympathetic (and drive a 99 Saab with 150K miles that I paid off many, many years ago), but I think you’ve missed out on two or more generations of safety improvements. It appears that your car has one airbag per front seat passenger and may have abs. I think the relatively modest cost of moving up to a used vehicle in the 2002 range, with at least some type of side airbags, abs if you don’t have it, and perhaps one of the stability programs (ESP, ESC), let alone simply better engineered passenger compartments, frames, and doors is well worth it.
January 21st, 2009 at 8:45 am
I bought my 1999 VW Passat used in ‘01, for about half of what it would’ve been new. Back then I knew I wanted something sturdy so that I could drive it until it fell apart– and doing my research up front really paid off.
A lot of newer VWs (and other cars) have flimsier construction, based on where they’re manufactured, but I made sure to double-check the VIN number and got one that was manufactured in Germany. Once you’ve narrowed down your car choices, car forums are a terrific resource to figure out what problems others have encountered 5-10 years down the line, and what to look for if you’re buying used. (Another commonly-known fact re BMWs is that each model gets updated every 7 years, and you don’t want to buy the first year of the upgrade since they correct most of the kinks after that.)
I also bought a stick shift to save on gas, and I’m sure that’s contributed a fair amount of savings over the years. My car’s still going strong, and even though I might upgrade a little when it gives out, my next “new” car will only be new to me.
January 21st, 2009 at 8:48 am
I agree with the commenters above that it really depends on the car.
My 1997 VW Jetta cost me over $3,000 in repairs over the last eight months I owned it, and I sold it, at 190K miles or so, with another $1,000 of repairs outstanding.
I was planning on trying to keep it on the road longer, but it just wasn’t an option. The funny thing is, I’d started to feel unsafe in the car right around when the maintenance expenses really ramped up. In retrospect, I wish I’d listened to my gut feeling about the car.
January 21st, 2009 at 8:50 am
@#64: My horrible VW experience was with a car from one of their Mexican plants, FWIW. We had much better luck with the 1980s models, which were all made in Germany.
January 21st, 2009 at 8:50 am
Just this week (!!!) we paid off our 2000 Honda Accord that I bought used in 2006. My husband and I were just talking about how we’ll keep it around for our kids to learn to drive on.
Our kids haven’t been born yet.
Great post!
January 21st, 2009 at 8:51 am
When I left my job to go freelance last year, I put some serious thought into what to do about a car. I’d had company cars for the previous 5 years (the last one being a Mini Cooper Convertible).
My original plan was to lease a car, and allowing for servicing etc, I planned to spend £350 per month for a fairly standard hatchback (a Seat Leon), so that’s £4,200 p.a. for the 3 years of the lease.
Instead, I bought an 11 year old BMW 316 for £1,500. I’ve spent £800 having some work done to bring it up to scratch, but I figure I’m still ahead by £1,900 after the first year. And the best bit? Compared to the Mini, it’s more comfortable, more economical, more practical and believe it or not it has a better turning circle (which can be important on our narrow roads here in the UK).
January 21st, 2009 at 9:05 am
I own a 2003 Honda CR-V with 78k miles on it that is fully paid off, but I now live in a city where I rarely drive it. It’s a major hassle to deal with moving it for street cleaning and difficult to find a parking space when I do use it. I’m debating if I should sell it or just keep this car forever since it is a nice car and it’s nice to leave the city every now and then. Any thoughts?
January 21st, 2009 at 9:06 am
Hi all, I’m probably at the low end of the spectrum, with a 1983 Saab 900 which is coming up on 500k miles. I feel it’s a sound economical decision (one of the things that really matters here is that it’s worth so little, that any eventual expensive repairs will send it to the scrapper instead of me sinking money into it) but I can’t rely on it 100%. Probably not the best decision for the environment to keep it, but I can’t afford a more expensive one at the moment.
Hope I can give you some perspective =)
January 21st, 2009 at 9:09 am
I have a 2000 Saturn SL Series Sedan. I bought it used, and I have just two payments left on it. I plan to drive this car as close to forever as I can. The car has no rust and is in excellent running condition. I look forward to no car payments and lower insurance rates. I plan to divert most of the money I save to a “Tranportation Savings Account”. This money will be used for any necessary car repairs and maintenance, or to replace the car (with another used car, of course),in the event it up and dies and repair does not make financial sense.
It goes without saying that should the car become unsafe, it will be immediately replaced. I have also thought about whether I would trust this car on long road trips. The solution I have come up with is to rent a car on those few occasions. There are great deals to be had on weekly rentals and I figure it still far outweighs the cost of a monthly car payment!
January 21st, 2009 at 9:10 am
I’m doing the same with my current car. It’s only 5yrs old and I hope to reach 15. It’s a Corolla so the odds are with me. After I paid it off, I put the same amount into a saving account each month. It builds up the emergency fund fast!!
January 21st, 2009 at 9:17 am
Great post. I try to do it somewhat more simply. In my area you can usually find a well maintained import (usually Honda or Toyota) with about 100K miles on it for $3-4000. With proper care and maintenance, you can get another 100K miles out of it. Then do it again. that’s 200K miles for $8K Even if you buy a new car, for $20-30,000, take care of it and get 200K miles out of it, you are ahead of the game, even with any needed repairs. If you $3000 car blow up, buy another and you are still ahead. And that doesn’t take into account costs for insurance and interest payments. Anyway, buy a well maintained import for 4K, take care of it, drive it to death, rinse and repeat, bank the savings.
January 21st, 2009 at 9:28 am
Our “new” car is a 1995 Subaru, which we bought 3 years ago with 235,000 miles on it. As with all our vehicles, we paid cash and do repairs ourselves.
The best advice I ever had about using credit was to only buy assets that appreciate, never something that depreciates, if I’m making payments over time. When GMAC was cold calling me trying to say I had a bad loan with them (it was some other Steph) I was able to say that I knew they had the wrong person because I’ve never had a car loan. It stumped the supervisor and they quit calling.
January 21st, 2009 at 9:29 am
I’m in this with you. I have a 1996 Pontiac Sunfire GT. I paid it off early and have had no payments for 10 years. Of course, the LCD for the clock and radio doesn’t work anymore and there is no air conditioning unless I decide to charge it each year, and the passenger window doesn’t roll down, but it’s paid for and drives well. That’s all I could ask for. I just hope I can get a few more years out of it. Great post! Thanks!
January 21st, 2009 at 9:33 am
I was 22 when I bought my first car and it’s a slightly rusted, lots of cosmetic quirks 1992 Honda Civic… and I’m totally in love with it!
I’ve had it for almost a year and *knock on wood* haven’t had a single repair (tires and oil change don’t really count). I do drool over the newer Civics but I plan on driving mine until she either becomes unreliable or unsafe. For me, not having a car payment and paying for my first car with cash has been a great feeling. I’m hoping to do the same with every car I purchase, pay entirely in cash, or at the very least 50%. The ‘new car’ extras (power windows/locks/seat controls) just aren’t worth the stress of a car payment.
January 21st, 2009 at 9:37 am
I never understood why some people change cars every few years.
I was looking at buying a Mini last summer. All of the used Minis on the lot were almost exactly 4-5 years old, and/or 50,000+ miles. Mini has a 4 year/50,000 mile warranty. People are driving them out of their warranty and trading them in! I couldn’t believe it.
January 21st, 2009 at 9:43 am
That guy is lucky. As others stated it really depends on the car and not everyone can do their own repairs. Besides I think there is a line between being thoughtful about your money and just being cheapskate for its own sake.
January 21st, 2009 at 9:47 am
Everybody makes fun of my little 2001 Ford Focus Wagon. They ask me, why don’t you get a new car? My little Ford Focus (aka Little FF) has 171,000 miles on it and runs great (knock on wood). My goal for my Little FF? To get to 250,000 miles! How excititing is that?! So, I’m figuring about 3+ more years. I love everything about my Little FF - even the rusted roof. Sure, there are things I don’t like (like my dogs window won’t go down), the scan button is busted, it doesn’t have 4 wheel drive (which by the way, I’ll be getting when I get my next car). But that’s okay. My Little FF and I will ride off into the sunset.
January 21st, 2009 at 9:48 am
I have previously run the numbers (on this site in fact) for the *cost* of owning a car. And we all agree that we need to keep that cost A.L.A.R.A. (”As Low As Reasonably Achievable”, a familiar term for those of you who work with hazardous materials). The current culture of buying a new car every couple of years is silly.
But at the same time I don’t expect everyone to wring every last penny of value out of a vehicle. My expectation is that people understand the cost vs. value:
*What do you need?
My husband is 6′8″. I am 6′. I got rid of my first car (a 1999 Mazda Protege) after I got married because getting him in and out of the stupid thing was like working with the clowns at the circus. In a similar situation we got rid of a sedan for his current truck when we had our first baby because putting both of us into a standard sedan left no room for an infant seat. And if we have too many kids for our standard 5 person seating we will have to get a still larger vehicle.
*What do you want?
Safety straddles the line between needs and wants. You NEED a safe vehicle, but you want the MOST safe vehicle. I want a reliable vehicle. I don’t worry about the expense of repairs as much as the time commitment. I have to get it to the repair shop, get to work, coordinate pick up, etc. I don’t mind it if I do it once per year, but if I’m doing it every few months, even for small repairs, that isn’t reliable. And the repairs i have the know how to do myself will take a time and resource commitment as well.
*What can you afford?
I’ll drive a junker if it’s all I can afford. And even if you can afford it, buying a new car every year or two is wasteful. But this is part of the frugal/cheap balance. After a point the expense and affordability need to be weighed against the needs and wants of safety, reliability, comfort, etc.
January 21st, 2009 at 9:51 am
Good motivation, JD. Been 2 years of no car payments. Was frustrated with having to do a major overhaul.
You are correct, the cost to repair is less than my car payments when I look at it over the year. Thanks.
January 21st, 2009 at 10:09 am
Other intangible benefits of owning an old car:
1. Leave it parked in front of your house. People will assume you have no money, and they are less likely to break in. Also, you’ll have more room in your garage for storage.
2. No more worries of door dings. My kids routinely lay on and play on the hood and trunk of my old car and eat and drink in it. I’d never let them do this on a new car.
3. The cushy seats of my old American car are more comfortable than the stiff seats of my mother-in-law’s ‘07 Accord.
On the other hand, my old car is not much fun to drive. My wife (a nurse) is always sharing stories about folks cut down in their prime by illness or accident. This makes me want to go get the MINI while I’m young enough and healthy enough to enjoy it.
January 21st, 2009 at 10:17 am
for mhb, who hopes her yet-unborn children will drive her Honda…
it might happen.
We brought our newborn son home from the hospital in 1996 in our 1990 Honda Civic. He’s 12 now and wants to learn to drive it…
(If that car isn’t around in three years, our ‘89 Civic just might be — it has lower mileage, since the AC went out 10 years ago!)
January 21st, 2009 at 10:26 am
Hello
I fail to follow the basic principle that a new car cost more than keeping your old. Just before the holidays, I got a new car.
I had a rented a Honda Civic 2006. Signed up in march 2006+ for five years and planned to buy it back at the end. Last december, my vendor called to offer me a deal : Rent a 2009 Civic for the same condition in my contract for five years, starting now. He wants my car to sell it as a used one.
After some negociation, I said yes. I think I had made a good move cause :
- I successfuly negociated a lower payment.
- My insurrance didn’t raise enough to nullify the savings. In the net, I save 30$ a month.
- I wast late in my savings to buy back the car in 2011. Now I can save less each month to buy back the car in 2014 and allocate the difference to other purpose like an emergency fund or laser operation for my eyes.
- It feels good to have a new color that reflect the new dynamism in my lifestyle wich I build around tips found here at GRS and elsewhere like AONC and Zen Habits. Taffeta White rocks
However, buying back the car is a plan B. Plan A is to go out of the enslavement of needing a car at all. It’s a project by itself and now I have five more years to implement it.
January 21st, 2009 at 10:35 am
I’m proud to report that I just paid off my 7% Auto Loan today. No more car payments! Actually, I’m officially debt free. Timely Post, great advice that I will take to heart.
January 21st, 2009 at 10:35 am
i hope i can stay away from a car payment for at least another couple of years.. i haven’t had one in about 4 years.. both my cars are over a decade old (1996 and 1998)
January 21st, 2009 at 10:40 am
In this context, it’s interesting to mention a stimulus package planned by the German government: if you bring your old car to a certified wrecking yard and buy a brand new one that fulfills the highest environmental standard, the government will pay you the equivalent of $3,300. So far car dealers have reported a lot of interest by potential buyers, even thought this plan isn’t in effect yet. A good way to help struggling carmakers?
January 21st, 2009 at 10:51 am
I bought my “new” 2004 Sunfire in Oct, ‘06 and plan on driving it until the wheels fall off.
After this car is paid off I will never get another auto loan. Starting the month after its paid off I’ll start putting my $200/mo “payment” into my ING account to suppliment my emergency savings (for repairs, etc) and, when the time comes, to be able to pay for my next car outright.
I’m 24 years old now. I want to still be driving my Sunfire until I’m at least 30. The only way I’ll consider changing cars before that is if my family situation changes and I need a bigger car (I drive a coupe with a tiny back seat).
January 21st, 2009 at 10:53 am
I miss our ‘89 toyota camry wagon. We got that in ‘95 for 3600, drove it until 2006 (It ran like a top with minimal repairs and typical maintenance). Unfortunately a mishap occurred that made it never quite work right after that(friend borrowed it for a long road trip, forgot the oil cap so driving without oil until the car stopped). We tried fixing it but ended up selling it to the mechanic for $400 : ( If that mishap didn’t occur we would probably still be driving it.
January 21st, 2009 at 11:07 am
As the proud driver of a 19 year-old van I can appreciate Joel’s willingness to make sacrifices in his choice of transportation. Here’s to many more miles!
January 21st, 2009 at 11:08 am
Longtime reader, first time poster
I have been lamenting with you about your Mini Cooper Desire, hoping you will pull the trigger and enjoy something for a change ;-). Admittedly, Car things are my passion. My thoughts:
-There is a high level of enjoyment you will get out of a car like a Mini Cooper including social interaction with the wonderful car clubs and people you will meet through it(promise!).
-You forgot to put a value on reliability in a newer car - missed meeting because of a breakdown can be a huge lost opportunity cost.
-I think you are over-estimating the cost to have what you want. ESPECIALLY right now, you can get a nice Cooper S with ~35k miles in perfect condition for around 13k. With the great credit union rates, your payment should be under $250 a month, and with such low interest rates, why not add an extra year if you need to to get the monthly cost you want.
-Performance - I consider this a safety feature.. being able to get out of the way can truly save you from accidents or damages.
-Airbags and other safety features - basically any newer car is going to be dramatically safer than the Geo. Can you put a value on your life? Have you considered the cost of injuries that would be prevented by side airbags, dramatically higher side-beam crash standards… and on top of that obsessive BMW-designed safety in the Mini?
You might live in a safer area than me.
Another thought for you: Keep the Geo. It’s not worth much as a trade-in. Why don’t you keep it as your ‘beater’ car. You can loan it to friends in need. You can drive it when you are doing high miles tasks and keep the mileage low on the Mini. You won’t pay much more insurance with 2 cars and 1 driver, or 3 cars and 2 drivers because the way the ins. co rates it will be minimally higher - mini as “pleasure vehicle”.
Lastly, life is so short. You need to enjoy it. There is an unquantifyable joy in driving that compels people to buy nice cars every day. Maybe they aren’t as smart with money in their purchases, but you are
It’s the fruit of your labor!
January 21st, 2009 at 11:09 am
man up and buy a decent car. 95 Geo Prizim? you sound like a total wuss. I agree with paying cash for a car but you are going way too far. its like you are saying: “look at this nice sweater with holes in it, I am going to wear it everyday! i am saving so much money!” but you look like douchbag. think about it.
January 21st, 2009 at 11:26 am
isn’t the age of consent 18 yrs old? so you are an autophile and should be a registered auto offender.
January 21st, 2009 at 11:26 am
When I bought my 1st car in 1970, a 1961 Plymouth, it seemed so old and worn out at 80,000 miles, but a bargain at $186. My latest purchase was September 2008 when I traded a 1996 Sentra for a 1993 Accord. Yes, 3 years older, but an ACCORD with less than 130,000. In my mind this 16 year old car has more life left than that first, 9 year old Plymouth. Times and car quality have changed, but the principle of “buy good-used and drive it as long as you can” still makes sense.
January 21st, 2009 at 11:28 am
Cheers to Kris for driving a Honda!
I currently have a Honda Civic and it is awesome! 1999 model (bought brand new), at 110K miles and 10 years later, I only had to replace batteries, brake pads, oil, air filters, fluids and tires
These are typical wear and tear stuff. My other Honda before this approached 200K miles.
In my experience, Hondas, Toyotas and Jeeps have the longest lives. I don’t want to turn this into a brand debate. Just wanted to share my opinion.
See how many commenters here own a HONDA?
My husbands Jeep now has 140,000 miles (1998), same as the Honda above. Just typical maintenance stuff. Previously, he had a Jeep also with 200K+ miles.
We sure hope it stays this way for a few more years. We plan to save up for the next car and buy nused with cash hopefully.
January 21st, 2009 at 11:33 am
I love this philosophy and enjoyed it for many years. I recently bought a new car and have a payment for the first time since 1996. A Wise man once said you should never finance a depreciating asset. Being a Finance major, I get his drift.
However, I sure am enjoying my sweet, new Mustang!
January 21st, 2009 at 11:41 am
Except for the very first car my husband and I bought after we were married ($5000 1980 Ford Fairmont), we have bought all used cars. We have also made it a practice to pay in cash so that we won’t have any car payments (Even the new one we paid for in cash). We have a 1990 Oldsmobile 98 with 264,000 miles on it (had it since 1999). We have money saved up to buy a “new” used car, but that Olds just keeps on going! The longer it goes, the more our money grows. Our philosophy about cars is the same as with anything else: If you don’t have the money, then you don’t buy it.
January 21st, 2009 at 11:43 am
I think a few other people have touched on the fact that the make and reliability of your car can greatly change the chances of actually being able to drive it until it dies.
My first car was a Pontiac that I paid for in cash from money saved from side jobs, but the car was either a complete lemon or that brand is just a money pit. In the 6 years I owned that car (from 1997 to 2003) I had to spend 15,800 in repairs besides regular maintenance. When I finally was able to have a friend sell it for me in 2003 (90,000 miles) it needed ~$7,000 in additional repairs.
Instead of spending that money on repairs I used it and some other earned money to buy a Honda Civic Hybrid and I am so much happier now! Besides saving 80 to 100 a month in gas, I have only had to spend $1,200 in additional maintenance in the now almost 6 years I have owned the car.
January 21st, 2009 at 11:45 am
“I fail to follow the basic principle that a new car cost more than keeping your old.”
Tell us what your payments are (down payment, and monthly) and I’ll show you.