Over the past few months, the mainstream media has been filled with stories about the New Frugals and the return to thrift. People who once lived beyond their means, financing their lifestyle with debt, have “found religion”. They’ve begun to embrace frugality, and have discovered the joy that can come through spending less.
The new age of thrift
Not everyone is happy about this. The March issue of Redbook contained an article called “The Upside of Living on Less”, which profiled how four women are coping with the recession. The story prompted the following letter to the editor in the May issue:
While I love Redbook, something in your article “The Upside of Living on Less” rubbed me the wrong way. When describing the economic crunch, after rightfully blaming the banks and consumers who were charging more than they should have, the author wrote “Basically, we’d all been spending way more than we could afford.” I don’t appreciate being in the same category as overspenders. I am frugal with every cent, and I use every item to its utmost capacity simply because I don’t believe in waste of any kind. I always will be like that, regardless of the economy. Even though we’re all in this together, not everybody contributed to the country’s financial mess. — Darcy Bailey, Mount Holly NC
I’ve heard similar sentiments from GRS readers — and from my wife. To a degree, I sympathize. None of us wants to pay for the mistakes of others. When people make poor choices, they ought to face the consequences.
Still, I’m happy to see so many people discovering frugality. It’s an opportunity for us to spread the gospel of thrift. I don’t think it’s productive to spend time judging people for their past mistakes. If someone has a sincere desire to change, then I’m happy to help them do so. If these New Frugals possess the zeal of recent converts, perhaps they’ll spread the word to their friends and family, and maybe we will see a fundamental shift in American values. I believe that this country needs more frugality, not less.
Those with long-time habits of thrift should relish the current economic climate. Our smart choices will help us to weather the storm. Meanwhile, we should be glad to share what we know with others. The more people we can welcome to this way of life, the more likely it is to stick, to become a permanent part of our culture.
Gleefully frugal
A recent New York Times article explores this notion. Matt Richtel writes:
Millions of Americans have trimmed expenses because they have had their jobs or hours cut, or fear they will. But a subset of savers are reducing costs not just with purpose, but with relish. These are the gleefully frugal…The gleefully frugal happily seek new ways to economize and take pride in outsaving the Joneses.
One of the “gleefully frugal” profiled in Richtel’s article is GRS-reader Katy Wolk-Stanley, who writes a blog called The Non-Consumer Advocate. Katy’s goal is to help people learn to live on as little income as possible. She follows some familiar frugal practices (like hanging clothes to dry), and she tries to buy nothing new — except for underwear. I asked Katy how she feels about the New Frugals.
“I am seeing a profound increase of interest in frugality, which I welcome with open arms,” she told me. “Very few of us have exercised complete financial responsibility from day one, and sometimes it does take hitting rock bottom before we embrace change. Frugality is not just for the chosen few, but for anyone who wants to take control of their lives. Just because a person has been frugal for years doesn’t mean they’re more deserving of kudos than someone whose frugal journey just started.
Katy made an interesting observation: “I’ve noticed that the mainstays of my frugal life have increased in popularity. The library lines are longer and the thrift stores are consistently busy, but I don’t resent this. I’m happy to share my non-consumer tricks with whoever is looking to ratchet down their lifestyle. Frugality is for everyone.”
She also pointed to a piece over at The Frugal Girl about the “unriveting story” of a woman who was always frugal and never got into debt.
Why thrift matters
Now that we’re about a year into this recession, we’ve had time to see how people are responding. Honestly, I’ve begun to suspect that there won’t be a permanent shift in American values. I wish our culture would embrace frugality and the do-it-yourself economy, but I don’t think it’s going to happen — not on a large scale. But I do expect that some people will change for good, and that many people will at least try their hand at thrifty things like:
- Growing their own food.
- Shopping at thrift stores.
- Building and repairing things.
- Making food from scratch.
- Mending clothes.
If enough people do these things, if enough people see the benefits of these changes, if enough people retain a few of these skills once the economy improves, we’ll all be better off. I think frugality and thrift are about more than just saving money. They offer a chance to re-examine our lifestyles.
- Thrift teaches the value of things.
- Thrift provides for the future.
- Thrift allows you to focus time and money on what’s important.
- Thrift reduces consumption and waste.
- Thrift imparts a sense of accomplishment.
Thrift matters to me because it is a skill that I can use every day in many ways, big and small, to maximize the value of my money. But it’s not the money that’s important. It’s what the money represents, which is freedom — the freedom to write. This is why thrift matters to me: By being a wise steward of my money, I am able to pursue my dream of writing full-time.
Making frugality personal
In my own life, I’m delighted to see the changes in my friends. Smart personal finance has been a personal passion for me over the past three years, but I try not to evangelize outside the blog. Perhaps I don’t need to.
Last weekend, a group of us gathered for our annual trip to central Oregon. Every year, the women go shopping at the big-name chains: Old Navy, The Gap, etc. This year, however, some of them joined me and Kris for a trip to Goodwill. They had so much fun that they went back to do more shopping the next day!
This is just a small example — and I have others — but I think it’s telling. I applaud people making small changes like this. This is how we learn to be frugal, how we learn to embrace an ethic of thrift. We try one thing. Then we try another. And another. I don’t think that people can maintain habits when they try to go cold turkey. I think that it’s better to make incremental changes to your lifestyle.
How do you feel about the New Frugals and the return to thrift? Do these new converts bug you? Are you glad to see them? Do you think the do-it-yourself economy will last? When things turn around, do you plan to practice the new skills you’ve found? Or are you eager to return to the way things were?
For more on this subject, check out the following articles from mainstream media:
- Business Week: The new age of frugality — Especially the three-minute video at the top of the story.
- The New York Times: The new frugality: No passing fad — A four-person discussion about the new age of thrift.
- Fortune: Thrifty is the new frugal
- The New York Times has compiled a collection of videos related to what they’re calling “The New Hard Times“. These feature people who grew up during the Great Depression discussing how that compares with today.
[Thanks to Nancy, who asked me to write about this subject, and who pointed me to the Redbook articles. Goodwill photo by Scurzuzu.]
This article is about Economics, Frugality, News, Odds and Ends Monday, 4th May 2009 (by J.D. Roth)


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May 4th, 2009 at 5:10 am
“I wish our culture would embrace frugality and the do-it-yourself economy”
I too live a life of frugality and relish the opportunities to make the most out of every cent I earn.
BUT don’t you think the economy would be even worse off if EVERYONE adopted this philosophy. The country would need a radical shift for everyone to survive. If everyone lived like this, whole companies would go out of business…even more jobs would be lost… One hopes companies will adopt but I don’t think Nike will start making $8 shorts and $25 sneakers
May 4th, 2009 at 5:15 am
Matt, I was just talking to my husband about that the other day. I’d love to see a post about how frugality affects the economy. Sometimes I think that maybe if we all learned to live on less, we wouldn’t need to have a booming economy and so many jobs, but I’m hardly an expert on the economy.
May 4th, 2009 at 5:25 am
I find myself getting very tired of the “thriftier than thous” that seem to be popping up on every blog/in every media outlet/you name it because there’s a lot of mindless smugness about it it all. I find a lot of the thrifties, old and new, remarkably stingy in other ways as well. I wish people didn’t just trot out the hackneyed nostrums about frugality - growing your own food isn’t always cheaper, thrift stores don’t always make sense to everyone, etc. I wish there were more discussion of spending in alignment with the things that matter. Oh well. That doesn’t sell blogs and books and magazine articles, does it? I’m not the most frugal person on the planet (I buy new clothes and take trips! Gasp!), but I’m ok with that and will continue to spend as I see fit, economy or no.
May 4th, 2009 at 5:31 am
There was a good piece on NPR’s talk of the nation in March:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=102246996
They touch upon the ramifications of shoppers moving down a level.
May 4th, 2009 at 5:44 am
Learning to live on less is basically learning to get more out of life whether or not you have a lot of money to spend. It’s learning how to be truly happy and satisfied with life under any circumstances.
A downturn in the economy simply points out to everyone that we can’t count on money to make us happy. When the economy is booming, it’s easier to live under that facade. Now suddenly everyone is facing the reality of losing a top source of “happiness.”
Seeing people cope with this reality(and coping with it myself)is most important to me. I am spending less than ever but I am also more happy than I have ever been in my life. But it’s not just because I’ve learned to be frugal. I’ve also changed the way I think about life, so I don’t need a lot of money to make me smile each day.
But the truth is, if my situation changes and I have more money to spend, I’ll relish being able to spend it (and save it). The only difference is now I know it’s not the money that’s the source of my inner joy–it’s my everyday choices in how I think about my life.
I hope, when this economy improves, that people take away how to achieve real joy in life, with or without the money. Money can’t provide happiness by itself, but neither can frugality.
May 4th, 2009 at 5:58 am
I guess the more people that realise that the thrifty options can be great, the more competition there is for them…and some of them may become less thrifty than before.
This definitely seems to happen with cuts of meat. Lamb shanks were once pretty cheap in the UK but after they got lots of publicity as tasty but cheap alternative, demand went up and they seemed to creep up in price.
This may tie in with the comments others have made about whether we can all be thrifty. For some of us to be thrifty, does it require others to be profligate?
May 4th, 2009 at 6:05 am
I have to agree with KS - there are a lot of frugal people (new and longtime) who remind me of the South Park episode that featured “smug-emitting” hybrid cars.
Some people have made the choice to be frugal (or always have been) - most didn’t make that choice - they just ran out of money and credit.
May 4th, 2009 at 6:25 am
A few of you have mentioned the “paradox of thrift”. We covered it briefly in February. In short, I don’t think there’s any danger of long-term damage to the economy from this because I don’t think enough people will make the shift. But even if more people did make the shift, I think it would be a good thing. It would be a one-time shift to a more sustainable economic model.
@KS (#3)
I think that you (and Four Pillars #7) are spending the way it should be done — cutting back where it doesn’t matter to you, but spending on the things that are important. That’s what I do, too. It’s no secret that I’ve never really cut back on my food expenses. Kris and I grow our own food to help defray some of the costs, but we eat very very well. On the other hand, I don’t spend much on clothes because that’s not something important to me. You’re right that personal balance is what’s required.
You mention smugness associated with the thrifty people in the media. I wonder if that’s real smugness or whether it’s media-created. I’ve worked enough with mainstream media now to know that they often go in with a story in mind and then find content to fill the gaps. I wonder if they don’t intentionally seek out a smug sort of tightwad. Most of the frugal people I know aren’t smug about it. They just live thrifty lives.
May 4th, 2009 at 6:39 am
JD, I think you are right that the media picks and chooses their “interview” subjects for maximum effect - most frugal people are not smug about it.
Another problem with the whole frugal thing is the definition of “frugal” - what is it exactly? I don’t know the answer.
For some, ‘frugal’ means living on as little as possible, for others it simply means living on less than they used to (ie they have cut back at least a little bit). For others still it means spending a lot of time being frugal (ie making your own soap etc).
I don’t consider myself frugal - I like to think of myself as “financially responsible” - whatever that means.
May 4th, 2009 at 6:52 am
While I of course agree with your assessment that a return to thrift would be a wonderful thing for our country, I don’t forsee this being a lasting trend. I wrote an article about this on my website if you are interested in reading it. Essentially it discusses a study which was done by the National Foundation for Credit Counseling which says that 45% of people are only spending less because they have less to spend and that once the economy recovers they are going to return to their old ways.
Here is a link to my article: http://hundredgoals.com/2009/05/01/bad-news/
May 4th, 2009 at 6:56 am
I think that for some, this Frugal shift will last. Some people start being frugal and really find it fun. I’m one of those- I used to spend money and buy things and not really think about whether I was doing it wisely.
Once I started to be frugal in one area of my life (I started coupon shopping) I saw how much fun it was to try to hunt down the deals and how much nicer it was to do more with my money. That spread into other area’s of my life- I now think it is way more enjoyable to hunt through thrift store racks than to go to the Gap, and when I walk into Banana Republic and Ralph Lauren and see some o the prices that I used to pay without questioning them, I wonder whether I was out of my mind.
The new frugalists who catch this mindset and think that it is actually a challenge and enjoyable to try to do more with less will stick with it.
On the other hand, those people who are driven to frugality by the economy and/or their own foolishness (people who tapped out their credit cards, bought more house than they can afford, etc.) are likely to come into frugality with a resentful attitude and/or the view that their economy is a sacrifice. These people will never stick with it. Just like the dieter who puts on 20 pounds after the diet is over, these people will eventually go back to their free spending ways.
May 4th, 2009 at 6:57 am
I don’t know if I consider myself frugal, but we paid off all of our debt last year, and we were well on our way before the recession.
When we were paying off credit cards and car loans, we cut back a lot. But now that we’re debt-free and have an emergency fund (hit our EF goal this month!), we are doing what JD described above–cutting back where it doesn’t matter to us, but spending on the things that are important.
Few eaxmples: We spend on food from the market, but we don’t have cable TV because neither of us care about it or want it. We only have one car, but I’d rather travel than spend money on a second car (and no, we don’t live in the city with public transit or stores we could bike to…we live in the country). I put three times the amount of money into our travel fund than I do into the car fund.
May 4th, 2009 at 6:58 am
Great post JD. I really enjoy your blog and the theme of common sense, hard work, and time. I tend to be impatient and give up easily. I like how you remind us that hard work and time go hand in hand. Thanks!
May 4th, 2009 at 7:00 am
I’m skeptical that the new fixation with frugality is going to last much longer than the recession. I can’t help but think that a lot of it is a fad.
There are too many people running around acting like undertaking Herculean efforts or ascetic self-deprivation to save a couple of bucks is the greatest thing in the world. The thing that really suggests that it’s a fad is that I never hear anyone say “wow, that’s a complete waste of my time” or “saving a dollar isn’t worth that much effort” when a new frugality tip is mentioned. Rather people mindlessly embrace everything with the frugal label attached.
The one thing that I do hope sticks around is an aversion to buying everything on credit. It would also be nice if more people took emergency funds seriously and maybe had a savings rate above 0%.
Personally, I don’t like being called frugal. Too much of an association with being cheap or miserly. Frugality for me is nothing more than a way to divert resources away from things that don’t imbue my life with meaning and value and towards those things that do.
May 4th, 2009 at 7:01 am
I’d like to see the episode with the “smug-emitting” cars.
I agree that some of the smugness is created by the media, but I’ve found some bloggers (present company excluded, of course) are pretty smug and self-congratulatory about their lifestyles without any outside help. (Like insulting “menial jobs” while promoting making your own soap, for example).
On the other hand, it’s almost a nice reaction to the “I’ve got bigger, better and more stuff than you” version of smug. I think people are going to be smug regardless of their spending habits.
May 4th, 2009 at 7:09 am
Like Four Pillars, I consider my self financially responsible.
May 4th, 2009 at 7:26 am
I define frugal as wasting as little as possible, rather than as spending as little as possible. Frugality has me buying a whole chicken, roasting it and eating it in various dishes for a week, making broth that I freeze and use over the next month. I buy an expensive, free-range, organic chicken and still spend less than if I’d purchased boneless, skinless breasts for a single meal, then needed additional meat for the future meals, and needed to buy cans or boxes of chicken broth as well. I could do it more cheaply by buying a cheaper chicken, but I still consider myself frugal because I didn’t waste a single bit of the chicken I did buy.
Likewise, cable would be a waste for me because I hardly watch television, but for someone whose entertainment comes mostly from TV, it might be a frugal option. Ditto for video games or books or whatever gives you hours of satisfaction for relatively low cost.
In all this discussion of frugality, we should remember that it’s called “personal finance” not just because it covers the personal realm of the economy but because the decisions we make have to be personalized to our own values and choices.
May 4th, 2009 at 7:36 am
From where I stand, there is still a distain for those of us who are frugal who might not ‘have’ to be. My husband and I, though not the most frugal people in the world, certainly seem to be some of the most frugal in our social groups. While some of those in our networks have been leaning more and more toward the frugal end of the spectrum in recent months, it doesn’t seem to be from any shift in values so much as a shift in available funds. That’s okay - I’m not judging them (except with they complain about not being able to afford x, y, or z while spending $400+ a month in new clothes, or whatever the case may be…that kind of blindness is just frustrating to me), but I do find that they seem to be judging me. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve gotten comments from people who ask why we’re buying clothes at a thrift store, or bring our lunches to work every day, or (gasp!) pay off our credit cards every month or only go shopping when we actually *need* something, or any of the other apparently frugal things. They ask because they know that we could afford to do just about any of the things that they do at any time, but we choose not to because we’re working toward long-term goals. To most of our circle, this seems crazy, even in today’s economic climate. They think we have no fun or are scared of spending money. For us, this is just the normal way to function.
So it’s interesting that there’s been all this coverage in the media of a return to thrift…perhaps it’s relative, but I haven’t really seen it. I’d welcome it, if I did, because maybe then I’d get fewer questions from my friends as to why we live our life the way we do. I guess to me, thrift isn’t just about spending less; it’s a state of mind. I get sucked into the commercial machine from time to time, but I try to be more conscious of my spending - ensuring that it’s something that *I* have deemed I desire, not just something that someone is trying to convince me I need in order to sell it to me. I don’t know that it’s any better or worse than any other way of living, it just works for me (and, thankfully, for my husband, too).
May 4th, 2009 at 7:39 am
I think that people living a more sustainable lifestyle is a good thing. I also think it has legs and the ability to last for a lot of people. Some people will make a temporary change until things get better, but as many of us know - living a frugal lifestyle becomes part of your value system and tends to just become another part of your everyday life moving forward. I think this will change the way we live for years to come. It may hurt the economy in the short term, but in the long term I agree that it will lead to a more sustainable lifestyle. The market will still find a way to sell things that there is adequate demand for. More money saved could also mean more money invested, and those invested dollars will go toward making those things that people (including frugal people) still want.
May 4th, 2009 at 7:45 am
I’m in college, and many of my friends are just starting out with their first real jobs. I had expected to see a lot of lifestyle inflation — moving to nicer apartments, buying new clothes, upgrading their cars — but instead, my friends seem to be embracing thrift instead of bling, and keeping the “student lifestyle” longer. I don’t know if it’s a symptom of the economic downturn, or if this is part of a trend towards low-impact living and simplicity, but I like it.
May 4th, 2009 at 8:03 am
JD –
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said “It would be a one-time shift to a more sustainable economic model.”
A more sustainable economic model will be better for us in the long run.
There may be some “growing pains” in the short run… but that is bound to happen when making such a drastic change.
MLR
May 4th, 2009 at 8:10 am
As “thrift” is in the news more, I frequently see people assert (as in this post) that thrift allows us to focus time and money on what’s important.
I do not find that to be true. Being more thrifty means not hiring a housekeeper — and having to spend time cleaning. It means hand-making cards — when I’d rather spend time with cuddling on the couch with my husband. It means spending more time on-line looking for the best deal on a dress I need for a wedding –when I would rather buy the first cute dress I find and get some sleep.
I’m quite thrifty, and believe it has many benefits — but allowing me to focus more time on what’s important is not one.
May 4th, 2009 at 8:22 am
In bad times, we form good habits…
In good times, we form bad habits.
It is my hope that this economic crisis is severe enough to remain clear in our collective conscious — and we are enabled to maintain these good habits that are now being discovered or re-discovered…
“The purpose of learning is growth, and our minds, unlike our bodies, can continue growing as long as we live.” ~
Mortimer Adler
May 4th, 2009 at 8:28 am
The best thing I’ve read of late on this topic was a quick blurb describing a few interviews with teens/college aged people who were thinking in terms of debt avoidance and savings - that was heartening to hear for someone who made her worst choices during those stages of her life!
May 4th, 2009 at 8:29 am
I think that when you can CHOOSE to be thrifty you have a whole different attitude than when you are FORCED by circumstances to spend less. Thrift just isn’t going to have the same level of enjoyment when you don’t have the alternative — that’s why so many of us have some “free money” worked into our budgets, money we can spend without thinking about it. When you don’t have some level of choice, thrift can be really depressing.
May 4th, 2009 at 8:52 am
I was having this discussion with my financial advisor on Friday, who said he and his company believe the recession will take longer to get out of than the common wisdom says, based on their belief that people have learned from this crisis and will not go back to their free-spending ways.
Despite my investments and low 401k value, I’d like to believe him, but I told him my experience with my own clients in probate and bankruptcy cases says otherwise. I’d really like to see people living within their means, and saving enough to continue living their current lifestyles or better in retirement, and I’ll continue trying to convert people to this way of living.
On the other hand, most people have a hard time delaying gratification, so I have to believe that when money’s available to them, they’ll spend it.
I remember people sewing and mending their own clothes in the 70’s, and growing their own alfalfa sprouts and vegetables, and then replacing the vegetable gardens with pools in the 80’s. I remember a lot of articles announcing the end of the extravagant 80’s during the early 90’s recession, yet extravagance came back in style awfully quickly.
At best, I’d think some peoples’ lifestyle deflation changes will become permanent, and that’s not a bad result.
May 4th, 2009 at 9:01 am
I have to say I’m definitely with KS and Four Pillars, plus I suspect many more people. I’ve found that buying new clothes smartly can cost me less than buying a bunch of used clothes. I’d rather cut back on what doesn’t matter to me so I can splurge where it does matter. (Like buying a bunch of cheap groceries and eating noodles most of the week so we can eat out when we’d like.)
I’ve already said on my own blog (tiny and nonexistent as it is. :P) that I don’t believe any of this will stick. For whatever reason, thrift and frugality are “en vogue,” and will go out of “style” as soon as people can loosen their belts without worrying.
I’m just thankful this is happening while my husband and I are so young. We’ve managed to get out of consumer debt and build savings all in the midst of this, and I think that’ll help us out even more as the economy starts to recover. If we can develop such good habits in this sort of economic climate, I’m excited to see how much we can do in the rebound.
May 4th, 2009 at 9:03 am
I think that whenever people are *forced* to change, those changes won’t necessarily stick once those people are out of the fire. Lots of people who “have it in their nature to spend” are cutting back now because they have to. They’re enjoying it now & trying to see the positive side, but I almost don’t think they’ll stay that way once things go back to normal. For now though, I welcome the new converts, and enjoy hearing more about frugality from a wider variety of people.
I come from a frugal household, so I was raised by parents who stressed the importance of saving, staying debt free, turning off the lights, keeping an emergency fund, using coupons and not eating out. I’ve driven the same vehicle since 1991, have a lot of the same clothing, and spend about the same now as I have for years: Frugally. So I can relate to the writer of that Redbook Editorial Letter. Not of all us were overspending!
EDIT: A small edit after reading comments: I don’t say the above as a matter of smugness. I’m not being smug about it, it’s just a matter-of-fact way of life for me. Plus, there are plenty of frugal people who also are very giving. My parents also raised us kids with the whole concept of tithing and giving to others who are less fortunate (we were never ‘rich’ ourselves). We were just taught to stay discreet about giving and not to be demanding a standing ovation (figuratively speaking) every time we gave something. So yeah, frugal people aren’t always ’stingy’. There is a difference!
May 4th, 2009 at 9:05 am
@ Beth:
Come on, are you telling me you’ve never shared an ice cream cone with your son to enable you to finance a new Prius? :O)
May 4th, 2009 at 9:31 am
I hope there will be more of shift to thinking of money in terms of investing in one’s priorities, not just spending.
Most of the population has been focused on immediate gains/losses, whereas people who’ve been thrifty/frugal throughout the good years tend to be more perceptive about what lies ahead. I’m not sure that even this recession is enough to cause a permanent shift, but I do think that financial caution will persist for several more years than the media seems to imply.
May 4th, 2009 at 9:38 am
According to Austrian economic theory, thrift would not harm the economy in the long run, because it would increase the saving of capital. Such an increase would make more capital availible for investment in new technologies, infrastructure, companies, businesses, etc. This cannot happen without thrift / savings.
We NEED saved capital. The trifters / savers are the ones who provide the capital needed for economic recovery. This economy is already overloaded with massive debt. More debt will not help. We need thrifters and savers. It is their capital which will provide the investments that will lead to long-term recovery and growth.
The Federal Reserve and Federal Government is going about this all wrong.
May 4th, 2009 at 9:48 am
These are all great citations, but something critical to notice in this new wave of frugality is the hipness of it - I have friends that grow their own food in a small organic garden, form dinner party groups that regularly cook and share the costs of sit-down meals together, caravan to the beach or mountains for camping - the ultimate cheap getaway vacation.
May 4th, 2009 at 9:58 am
I don’t think we, as a society, need to go back to canning our own veggies and fruit (unless you really like to do so) and living off the land. But I hope that we return to the saving rate of 10 or 20 years ago. I don’t think there is anything wrong with spending money on things or experiences that you truly enjoy but I think the over reliance on debt and credit has turned out to be unhealthy for our country and society as a whole.
To me, frugality and thrift, doesn’t mean that I don’t spend money it means that I spend money in a different fashion (we save up for larger purchases, we don’t use credit, and we live within our means while also putting aside savings in our emergency fund, retirement accounts and other sinking funds).
May 4th, 2009 at 9:59 am
Regarding “One hopes companies will adopt but I don’t think Nike will start making $8 shorts and $25 sneakers.”
I read Naomi Klein’s “No Logo” about five years ago. Nike was
making $2 sneakers then (off-shored labor, special manufacturing zones). The added costs were in the “logo” — the advertisements that made the sneakers a status symbol (absurd-sneakers that some actually killed for)! So the profits were very high for Nike. The boxing and shipping probably cost more. There is a description of all of these sports shoes thrown in a big pile in a dusty outdoor shed after they are “manufactured” in Asia.
Truth is, we don’t have any additional planets to consume. We need to be conscious of our effect on the one planet we have. Switching to a sustainable economy where people had more leisure and community and knew when enough stuff was enough (and what was purchased was well made enough to justify the resources and the inevitable land fill space) is a much better way to go then to continue to fill up storage sheds and garages.
May 4th, 2009 at 10:13 am
@ Joey — If that comment was for me, I can honestly say yes. I don’t have a son and I can’t eat dairy
(There are two of us Beths commenting here).
I get your point though. But the reason I thought the South Park episode would be so funny was because I used to work for a company where the execs drove hybrids. They heavily promoted hybrids and offered incentives like specially reserved parking spaces, but the funny thing was that they paid us so poorly that none of us could afford a hybrid anyways.
I still find it funny that some people with hybrids think they are better than everyone else — especially those of us who barely drive our cars or who take public transportation.
May 4th, 2009 at 10:15 am
A consumerist economy is unsustainable. At some point, you’ll need to incur debt in order to sustain artificial growth, which is exactly what happened. This contraction we’re experiencing is merely normalizing to the ‘real’ numbers. The US used to be the world’s largest creditor nation. Other countries borrowed from us because we had liquid capital. Now we’re the world’s largest debtor nation. Which means we’re borrowing from other countries who have capital. We need industry, and we need more savings. We have a whole generation of people who rely on credit cards. That’s not good.
May 4th, 2009 at 10:44 am
I’ve always been thrifty, too, and feel like I’m NOT to blame for the current economic crisis. But instead of moaning about it I’m taking action. I’m buying more into the stock market while its low. I’ve bought new furniture and other commodities (like a new toilet) that I’ve needed. I’m getting great prices. I haven’t bought anything I didn’t need, but I’m buying them at much better prices then I would have gotten a few years ago. I’ve always done the opposite of what everyone else is doing and it pays off. I’m glad I’ve been frugal all these years - its the main reason I’m not in a financial predicament now when so many other are.
May 4th, 2009 at 11:18 am
I’m often bothered by people’s thrift when they neglect to focus on the low hanging fruit and instead they prune items from their budget that hardly have an impact on their overall savings, but sadly have a large impact on their happiness and the people around them.
Mortgage/Rent is generally the largest financial outlay that one makes in a month. A 20% reduction in this category will afford you all of the little things that you have cut back on.
I wrote about this a few weeks back and I think it is worth sharing:
http://www.twentysomethingsense.com/2009/04/why-do-people-spend-so-much-on-rent.html
May 4th, 2009 at 11:23 am
I think that frugality and thrift are definitely the story du jour. But I agree with J.D. that to project a long-term shift in the national character is overly optimistic.
As others have noted, many people are either not able to choose how or when they spend (when’s the last time you saw a farmer’s market in an inner-city neighborhood? Most of them don’t even have a proper grocery store) or not able to apply good judgement to their purchases (everyone who bought a house with zero down).
The fact is that in the U.S., the majority of the population lives in cities, and of those people the majority are either not homeowners, or do not own homes where they are permitted to use solar power, xeriscaping, composting toilets, graywater treatment, or even their own choice of window coverings. Many people do not have the option of planting a garden, because they don’t have yards.
In Los Angeles, public transit is not a realistic option for many, because it would double or triple already-punishing commute times - if we were able to get on the bus/train at all. (See http://www.crazyauntpurl.com if you’d like to read some horror stories about public transit in L.A.)
I’d also like to bet that for every person who successfully makes a thrift shift in their lift, there’ll be another person who spends a few hundred dollars on tools for the thrift shift, only to abandon it because they find they can’t make it work in terms of time and skill level. You can’t just come home with a sewing machine and start making clothes, or bring home a tool set and start rebuilding your engine.
If thrift requires high levels of DIY skills, plus space, time, and property, most people aren’t going to be able to take it very far. It’s not a personality flaw, just reality.
That said, if thrift is only about how and when you buy and save, it becomes simpler and more sustainable - and definitely something that should remain part of the national conversation.
May 4th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
What we follow is the 50/20/30 (Must-Haves, Savings, Wants) rule by Elizabeth Warren, except that our must-haves are less than 50 and savings are higher than 30 with a sizable portion for wants.
We do not think of our selves as frugal, but we do buy most of our clothes, furniture etc on sale. We terminate subscriptions we find we do not use. No credit cards are used nor do we own any car. But growing our own food? Baking our own bread? Sewing our own clothes? Hell no!
For more on Elizabeth Warren on 50/20/30 in a review of her book All your worth”:
http://www.mdmproofing.com/iym/BMF.shtml
May 4th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
I agree that if everyone became thrifty it would hurt our economy, but if everyone one was thrifty is would also help our environment (which is more long term). I don’t think thrift require a lot of gadgets or purchases. Thrift can just mean that you’re not going to have 20 pairs of jeans…just wear the same 3 over and over again. I don’t think you really have to fix your clothes, but don’t toss them out before they’re done. I also think it makes sense to donate items that still have some wear in them. I live near a college campus, and it’s ridiculous the amount of stuff that is thrown away because kids just don’t want to pack it.
May 4th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
If this downturn continues for two or three years, we *might* get a statistically significant number of folks (especially those just out of college) to change their habits permanently. Lots of people changed their habits involuntarily but permanently during the Depression.
I agree with those who are thinking, despite the “paradox of thrift,” that a trend toward saving and moderate consumption could actually be good for the economy, both from a capitalist perspective and from a sustainability perspective.
However, I think such a large economic shift would also require some leadership at the national level, and given that Obama is broadcasting the message that things are “returning to normal” as a way to keep up morale, I can’t envision him urging us all to consume less and save 10% of our income. It’s too bad. If any American politician has the clout and the rhetorical ability to inspire us to think outside the box we’re now in, it would be Obama.
May 4th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
Somehow (/sarcasm), back when thrift was the norm, we all managed to keep the economy going. It’s not suddenly going to turn the world upside down if we return to that state.
May 4th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
I’ve been trying to pay down debt and stick to a tighter budget since long before the economic tidal wave, but as the irrepressible optimist that I am, despite personal impacts, I think I’ve learned a bit from all this…
My job was eliminated last summer, which forced a drastic change in spending habits. I am NOT a hobby shopper, but once in a while when I found something I liked I would impulsively buy it. On unemployment, there simply wasn’t a choice anymore. I didn’t spend any money unnecessarily. Now that I’m re-employed, I’m trying to keep some of that fiscal self discipline in place to achieve other, more aggressive financial goals.
I would like to reinforce the comment Mary made re: thrift not necessarily meaning more time to do things with family. In addition to a full time job, I now have a part time job. This part time job has tipped my time balance severely, and I find all my time on weekends is spent trying to catch up. Since I make dramatically more at this job, and wish to keep it for the long term, as soon as our last bit of debt is paid off this summer I am hiring a housekeeper!
May 4th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
As a “thrifty convert”, I’m all for it. I personally made the connection between wasted merchandise sitting in the closets unused and the money I wasted acquiring and storing it. However, at the weekend I received not one but two text messages from my peeps at the mall basically saying, “Recession?? What recession?!” Apparently, money was flowing like water and the wait lines were a mile long …
May 4th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
I am an abysmal failure at frugality in the traditional sense. The traditional notion of frugality seems to be this: “I want a new 17″ Macbook Pro, but I can’t afford it, so I’ll get the 13″ regular MacBook.”
This is viewed as a triumph over the irresponsible version: “I want a 17″ MacBook Pro, but I can’t afford it, so I’m going to finance it,” which results in a worse, debt-laden financial position.
I don’t do either of these things. I would say “I want a 17″ macBook Pro but I can’t afford it, so I’m not going to buy anything at all. Maybe later when I have more money, if I still want it, I’ll get it then.”
I never buy things I don’t actually want, and I end up spending less than the people who do things like go to thrift stores and buy used items to save money.
Does that make me thrifty? I don’t really do any of the things listed in the post: grow my own food, shop at thrift stores, mend clothes. I fix things because I find it satisfying, and I occasionally make my own food, but I go out just as often. I have basically *no* practices I follow that would be viewed as a ‘frugal’ lifestyle. But I don’t own a TV, nor subscribe to a cable service. I don’t have a stereo. I have no landline telephone. I have no dishwasher. I have no air conditioning (except in the car). My cell phone can’t get on the internet.
I did buy a brand new car two years ago. It cost about $24,000, plus taxes. I could have gotten a cheaper one, but this was the one I wanted. I have a $1500 bicycle. I own a boat. These aren’t frugal purchases, but they’re the things I wanted, and I haven’t borrowed any money for anything in the last four years (except the car, but if I had that to do over, I would probably wait on that, too).
Frugal? Not Frugal? Differently frugal? I don’t know, but I do know that if I did net worth calculations, they’d be going up each month, so I can’t be doing too badly.
Sorry, I haven’t answered any of the questions posed. No, the DIY economy wont last. It’s inefficient. On a large scale, it makes people poorer, not richer. Factories make goods cheaper simply by economy of scale, and you can’t (when factoring in your time) make a shirt cheaper than the Gap, or a car cheaper than Ford, or a television cheaper than Sony. DIY will remain largely done as a hobby or for a sense of personal satisfaction, not because it’s an economic improvement.
Will this new thrift trend stick? Probably not. Very few trends do. I don’t actually know that’s a bad thing. less reliance on credit and debt would be good, but beyond that, I think people should be able to enjoy the fruits of their labors. If they want to work hard for nice things, why shouldn’t they? As long as they’ve actually done the work instead of borrowing for their lifestyle, what’s the problem?
May 4th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
For thrift to stick there would have to be a paradigm shift, which I’m just not seeing. A large number of people from boomers on have a problem with instant gratification, and that isn’t just with money but with everything. The “free-love” and “hook-up” are about instant gratification rather than building lasting relationships.
Part of that is also a loss of the feeling of personal responsibility. People want the rewards of being adults (like spending their money how they like) without the responsibilities of adulthood (like paying one’s current and future bills).
Most people I know spend what they have. In a tight economy if they have less they will be more thrifty and do with less, but when the cash flows again they will seamlessly accommodate the change. Their consumption isn’t conscious.
However I DO think external forces may curb the consumption. The banks, being more trigger shy, won’t allow as much of a negative saving rate. In order to buy a house one will need more capital (more savings to buy) or renting from someone with enough capital, driving cheaper cars because financing is limited, etc.
So more thrifty living may be more of an effect of living on less credit than less debt is a result of living thriftier lives.
May 4th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
I have to agree with Tyler @46. I only learned the word “frugal” a couple of years ago, and thrifty - like a few months? While I just think of it as “not wasting money and resources”. Food has to be used before it goes bad, and eaten off plates fully, packed for lunch if needed (I do have 2 kids, here goes my lunches). I used to saw and knit and mend my clothes - but that was back in Russia. Obviously, I can buy things here easier - but most of my shopping is at Goodwill, sales in Old Navy or hand-me-downs from friends. I don’t buy anything I can’t pay for at the end of the month, but the fact is - I really don’t need anything. How much do we need? Yet I don’t grow my food - I don’t like gardening (I do, however, cook from scratch, but again, I am used to it). Will this whole thing stick for the nation? I heard after depression most people stayed savvy. It’s a game for many “new addition to the camp of frugality”. Is it a life style change? It takes more than a year to make it so. But it could be an addiction developed (money saving game that is), and addictions do stick.
May 4th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
Well, let’s just look back to WWII. As soon as it was over, people were so sick of scrimping and saving and doing without that the trend became buying, building, and going out. I think the same thing will happen when this recession is over, except for a small percentage of people who change their mindset.
May 4th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
I have to agree with the thought that if nobody buys, then the economy is doomed to never flourish again. People need to buy and businesses need to lower prices. I really believe the concentration needs to be on saving the earth if we want to change our ways on something.
May 4th, 2009 at 8:36 pm
I get annoyed with all the cover stories on these magazines/newspapers about being frugal. I was frugal before frugal was cool, as I am sure the majority of GRS readers were. Maybe this frugal lifestyle will rub off on the politicians and they can start the Ramsey baby steps on the massive federal debt. That is what I am waiting for.
Imagine if they were as careful with their money as we are with ours….
May 4th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
Katy here from The Non-Consumer Advocate.
Frugality and thrift are so ingrained in my family’s life that it’s almost without thought at this point. But please don’t think our life isn’t rich. We have everything we need and then some. We vacation, eat fabulous meals, see second run movies, watch DVD’s from the library and wear expensive (Goodwill) clothing.
We do everything mainstream America does, we just pay 10% the price.
Katy Wolk-Stanley
“Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without.”
May 4th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
It’s a good concept and I think we all should follow this, living in efficient way and only buy things that are basic needs.restrain yourselves from credit cards…lol
May 5th, 2009 at 7:33 am
Why have the terms thrifty and frugal become synonyms for cheap? I also don’t appreciate the poster here claiming that frugal, thrifty people are not charitable. In fact, by not buying,buying, buying and taking care of what I have, I have given a lot to charity- money and time. I find that is the same for many of my friends. I could shop at the “best” stores but cannot see how most of what they have is worth anything close to the price. I travel(yes, we had an international trip this year), paid two college tuitions for our kids, have a paid off house(and this is in the suburb of a large city) and we have 2 paid off cars.
May 5th, 2009 at 11:07 am
The only thing that bugs me is people doing it because it’s “fashionable”, or people talking about everything they’ll spend money on as soon as the economy is better.
It just makes me think they don’t get it…
May 5th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
In a way I can see your point about people taking it as being ‘fashionable’ and reverting to their old ways as soon as things get better. The fact is that not everyone will get it but I think it would be fantastic if “keeping up with Joneses” meant outsaving them. I’d love to wake up in a world where people were doing their utmost to be frugal and keen savers because let’s face it this ’spending money as a way of asserting your status in society’ has gone so far.
The thing is if this goes on for long enough (and I mean several generations) people won’t know about ‘overspending’. Hopefully it’ll be a foreign concept that they never need to know. After all there are still people still saying now, “I didn’t realise how much water is wasted by leaving the tap running whilst brushing my teeth” or “I can’t believe how much money I waste by leaving my TV on standby.”
May 5th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
I also take homage with those who are doing it because it’s the trendy hip thing to be doing like “going green”(to much of this trend smacks of insincerity). Getting the most out of the things we own is a way to show appreciation for everything given. It’s that simple!
May 5th, 2009 at 7:39 pm
I’m not sure if the ‘new frugality’ will stick, but I have enjoyed the new trend towards open conversations about financial matters. The recession has a lot of folks feeling like ‘we’re all in the same bucket’ and I think that is broadening the financial discussions between friends and family. Now we sit around the dinner table instead of a restaurant table and shop at goodwill instead of the mall, but we also talk about how much we spent and how much we saved, something that I witnessed very little of before.
May 6th, 2009 at 6:53 am
Personally I think its a fad. Once the economy recovers people will go back to being the way they were.
I dont find the idea of shopping at Goodwill helpful. I have a position that requires me to be well dressed and well groomed-I am a senior professional fundraiser and manager at a very prestigious institution. While I dont raise $$ from high net worth individuals, being in a different area of the field, I do need a professional wardrobe and to look like I am a credit to the institution. Getting a $20 haircut and buying work clothes at thrift stores is simply not acceptable. There is not enough inventory and I am all too likely to end up sitting at a table with the former owner of the clothes….. I have found some of the tips here helpful, but not on issues like maintaining a professional wardrobe. My own solution has been to hire a personal shopper, set a clothing budget, and buy a lot of clothes twice a year and NO OTHER CLOTHES SHOPPING. THis suits me as I hate shopping anyway. I need nice evening clothes for example-its hard to be thrifty in this area. Being Indian however, I have switched back to wearing saris, which I have loads of-one size fits all-but I still need to get blouses custom tailored-and it isnt a solution that applies to everyone. Frankly at my age there ARE very few interesting clothes out there and saris are very flattering if you are over 25 and have a normal body. I have focused more on raising my income than saving $$. I do use a budget, which helped enormously in saving to buy a house. I am now using a zero based budget to build an emergency fund, but thats about it-I dont clip coupons-I rarely buy the stuff coupons are good for, but I do cook from scratch and always have, so my food budget is not too bad.
May 6th, 2009 at 8:27 am
1. I fear that a lot of “the new frugals” are viewing it as a fad, won’t really learn anything, and will just go back to their old, unssustainable ways when things turn around or when it’s no longer “cool” or “in.” (I feel the same way about being green, sadly.)
2. It IS all about balance and priorities. There are some areas in which I don’t scrimp, because I feel it would affect my quality of life, and I feel that what I spend in those areas does not negatively impact the rest of my financial life. I have no credit cards and no CC debt, and I plan to keep it that way. When I want a luxury (like travel–you CAN do it not on credit–or collecting art,) I budget for it.
I DO believe one can be too tightfisted, and that one can get too careless with one’s money, but I try not to judge others or preach to them. I know what matters to me, and I stick to that.
Jen M.
May 9th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
@ Beth:
Loved your comment about being paid too poorly to buy a Prius. I think there’s a separate issue about the “luxury” of being all green and correct — but I digress.
Prius-smugness is a category all its own. I personally know people who bought Priuses back when gas (here in Calif., anyway) was $4 a gallon. Now that gas prices have dropped, and they’re stuck with financing that Prius, I wonder if some aren’t regretting the decision as a not-so-frugal choice. It would be too politically incorrect to say so, I suspect.
May 10th, 2009 at 11:01 am
Thrift is making a comeback! This is one of the good news of the economic downturn we are experiencing. It is about time that the average American is getting a little more careful with money again.
May 11th, 2009 at 9:02 pm
Let’s see how frugal people are after the economy improves– people have short memories . . .
May 12th, 2009 at 6:04 am
@Kate,
I totally agree with your point about the luxury of being green and correct. Alas, my former company refused to put in a company recycling program (we had recycling bins, but they were picked up by the garbage company) and the execs flew around the world in a private jet.
I didn’t own a prius, but I’ll admit I felt a little bit superior taking all of my recyclables home with me.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:49 am
Hi,
No offense meant to the americans, but In india we never grew up on the notion of living on credits or enjoying on borrowed money. USA is a corporation where this century’s statesmen have ruined the whatever little culture was there. I wonder how you have reached to a point where you have to be taught not to be living off on credit money!
Boy, this is what a 1st grade student or an infant kid learns–to be neat about belongings. I am from Mumbai, when i was in USA i visited few households, where i was appaled at the items you people have lying uselessly around. So many caps [like 2 dozen] collecting dusts, belts, different shoes, stashes of books, piles of branded CDs.. and from whatever i see in movies, seems the ladies in USA never cook at home! i hope that is not true.
Yes, India is still not a developed country due to corruption, dynastic-politicians, etc. but the average Indian Joe is far smarter in savings, frugality and conspicuous consumption. Also, in most educated middle class [people who have actually lived well according to the standards] the parents have a lot of retirement funds, most even have a house in their name and other ornaments, jewelery. I guess this is equal comparision because an american earner has much more wage and high standard of living that an Indian middle class earner.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:39 am
@Pranay Sanghavi
I recognize you weren’t intent on offending but I fear this will cause people to be offended. As an outsider of the US I cannot adequately comment on your evaluation of Americans but I do have to say it sounds much too generalised. You do realise there are 306 million americans so having visited a few houses I don’t think you can say that ‘you people have so many items lying around collecting dust’. Perhaps the media has made out that every american is useless with their money but if you look at the number of people who are a part of these ‘personal finance’ communities then you can see there is a portion of people who aren’t like this.
You also have to take into account that a higher pay packet usually goes in line with the area in which you are living and how high costs are there. Americans may earn more but they also have to pay more.
May 16th, 2009 at 9:03 am
Looking at the big picture is part of being thrifty. Sometimes you have to spend a little more up front to save a whole lot more over time.
Take laundry as an example: The new front-loading horizontal washing machines cost more up front BUT they use less water AND spin the clothes so fast that they are almost dry already when you take them out. Then you can take those ‘almost dry’ clothes and finish them up on a good clothes drying rack which means you save a lot by not using that energy hog clothes dryer.
December 10th, 2009 at 7:16 pm
I discovered a way to live frugally after I went through a divorce and then lost my job. Having to support a child on my own, I quickly turned to shopping at thrift stores to clothe my child and I. To my delight I found really great items that would invite people to compliment what I was wearing and have them ask, “where did I get that, I like it.” This inspired my new business, because I want others to have access to great fashion, but still look and feel great about their purchases. As I am slowly paying off my lawyers fees and getting out of debt. I have learned some great lessons and even when I am doing better financially, will still continue to live a frugal lifestyle. This time with making smarter decisions about my money. For more about my story and to see my store, go to http://www.lethrift.com, I would love to hear from you feedback and comments!