This guest post from Barry is part of a new feature here at Get Rich Slowly. Every Sunday will include a reader story (in the new “reader stories” category). Some will be general “how I did X” stories, and others will be examples of how a GRS reader achieved financial success. Barry’s post is also part of an accidental “real estate week” kicked off by Baker’s story.
For years I’d heard the rental horror stories, about tenants who refused to pay and landlords who couldn’t get rid of them, or tenants who trash their units so badly that the landlord gives up on renting altogether.
I’m sure these things can and do happen. But are they the norm? My wife and I had always wanted to own rental property, but stories like these made us nervous. Maybe rentals weren’t really meant for average folks like us.
Plus, there was the question of cost. My wife and I only make $60,000 between the two of us. Could we really afford to own a rental property? We’d always thought of rental properties as something for the rich. But maybe we had it backwards: Maybe the rich were the only ones smart enough to know that rental properties were good investments. Maybe we need to think like the rich do.
Doing our homework
With our limited income, we felt like we didn’t have the money to put in stocks. Plus, we thought that maybe the income from a rental unit would help us build a nest egg that wasn’t subject to the whims of the stock market. And we really liked the idea of having somebody else (the renters) setting aside money for us every month.
First, we did some homework. While the bank pre-approved us for a loan, we talked with our insurance company, local real-estate agents, and local landlords. This research gave us enough knowledge to go out and look.
We found several houses we liked, but most of them were too expensive. We couldn’t rent them out for enough to cover expenses. It seemed the local investors (rich people) were working closely with the real-estate agents. Agents get thousands of dollars in commissions through the investors, so my one purchase wasn’t anything that interested them. The investors are their bread and butter, so they got first crack at the good deals. I got the overpriced leftovers. My wife and I almost gave up. We couldn’t get a real-estate agent to work with us; we just couldn’t compete with the investors.
Evening the score
Then one day, there was an auction in our area. I went to see how much the house would go for. It went cheap! I’d been looking for long enough to know that if the house had been listed with an agent, it would have sold for a lot more. I wondered if this were a way to even the score.
We asked around and discovered the local investors get so many houses through the real-estate agents that they don’t bother going to auctions. They consider it a waste of their time.
Auctions are scary places to buy houses. There are no contingencies, no home inspections, and everything is final when the auction is done. You have to be sure of yourself when you place that bid. These things alone make it hard for the normal person to buy a home at auction.
The next few months we went to every auction around. We learned how to bid at an auction, and how much houses were going for. We knew we needed $5,000 for a down payment on the day of the purchase, and financing for the rest within 30 days. Because the houses at auction were selling for about 10% less than on the open market, this was our chance to get a good deal.
After waiting for a while, we found a house we liked that was going to be sold at auction. It was in a nice neighborhood. It needed some work, but we knew we could do most of that ourselves. We ran the numbers through our bank and found out interest rates had dropped to record lows because of the mortgage crisis. There seemed to be a perfect storm of low interest rates and people losing faith in real-estate. We felt that this was our chance.
Taking a chance
When we got to the auction, we were scared to death. We’d been to other auctions before, but this one was different. We knew this was the house for us. We wanted it more than any other house we’d looked at.
We arrived well armed. We’d done our math. We knew just how much comparable houses were getting for rent, what the taxes were, how much insurance would cost, and how much we could bid and still come out ahead.
As you can probably guess, in the end we were the winning bidders. We’d bought our first rental property. Now the real work began. We spent two solid weeks doing nothing but working on the house. When we were done, it looked great. We found a renter through word of mouth, signed a one-year lease, and now welcome the challenge of being landlords.
The property has been rented out for about six months now, and we’re very glad we bought the house. Our tenants have been early with the rent every month, and so far things are going smoothly. We did have some furnace problems and a problem with one of the doors, but those were minor. We knew there’d be problems, and we’ve dealt with them as we would have with our own house. It’s nothing the average person couldn’t handle.
Buyer beware?
Owning investment property isn’t for everyone. As with other investments, there are risks involved. But we felt that rental property would give us another form of income to help us on our financial journey. We know it’s not going to give us a quick payback like picking the right stock might. But we’re not looking to get rich quickly. We’re looking to build a nice solid nest egg, and rental property is just a part of that.
Is rental property for the average joe? We think so. What do you think? Do you own rentals? What advice do you have for others who might want to try this to make a little extra money?
Reminder: This is a story from one of your fellow readers. Please be nice. After nearly a decade of blogging, I have a thick skin, but it can be scary to put your story out in public for the first time. Remember that this guest author isn’t a professional writer, and is just learning about money like you are.
This article is about Entrepreneurship, House and Home, Reader Stories Sunday, 24th January 2010 (by J.D. Roth)


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January 24th, 2010 at 5:18 am
if only it was truly that “easy” but its not. it’s awesome that thus far your journey has been fairly smooth, but be careful good luck!
i do believe renting is for the average joe, they need to have a handy man that can be counted on. one day i would love to own rentals, my grandmother used to own property. make sure you have money set aside for problems like a leak in the roof, plumbing. do yearly pest control.
January 24th, 2010 at 5:28 am
Great guest post Barry! I bought my first rental property when I was 20 and my second when I was 22. There have been moments when I regretted it (having to evict someone) but overall they have been great investments that are building wealth for the future.
To people looking to buy their first rental property, I would advise that you have a $3-5,000 emergency fund for the property. No matter how well you plan and how much you check things over it always seems like there is several thousand dollar expense that comes up every year or two. For example, in my state they changed the regulations on smoke detectors and I have to hire a electrician to come in and rewire and reinstall all of the smoke detectors which cost over $700.
Now that I have been doing this for five years, I can say it seems like problems with your property come in waves. You will have six months with hardly anything going wrong and then two tenants give you notice and you are scrambling to show the apartments and fill the vacancy.
Overall rental property can be a great deal if you pay the right price initially and you treat it as a business.
January 24th, 2010 at 5:34 am
We were forced into being landlords. That is, our home was on the market for 9 months and wouldn’t sell and we refused to let it go into foreclosure, but also couldn’t afford the monthly payments on two places (we were relocating across the country due to a job). We have a renter in the home, but she never pays on time. We’re stuck with her though because the market still isn’t good enough to sell for what we need it to sell for. Being a landlord is not fun and we wouldn’t do it again.
January 24th, 2010 at 5:49 am
I too, am an unwitting landlord for a rental property I cannot sell currently. I have rented it for approximately 6 years and have had both good and bad experiences.
Most renters have been positive experiences however, I am careful to screen them thoroughly before I even consider giving them a lease. No pets, no smokers, no tenants <25 years old. Call me whatever ugly name you like, but my condo remains in great condition and I’ve never had any problem with collecting rent.
January 24th, 2010 at 6:25 am
I’m interested in buying a rental property, but don’t think the renter market is good enough where I live; I’d rather look in a city or college town. Does anyone know of reliable property management companies? Or, does anyone use one? I’d really appreciate some advice on this.
January 24th, 2010 at 6:26 am
To each his own I say. I have a friend who owns a small rental property and he was telling me a little bit about all of the hard work and the minimal return he was making. He was happy with the return and I was glad I didn’t have to tell him how much more I make from the comfort of my own desk and internet connection. But he can fix plumbing and I can’t and I can build websites and he can’t, so we all need to do what works.
January 24th, 2010 at 7:00 am
My parents had rental property and had to evict a tenant (in a nice neighborhood). On their way out, the tenants left the gas burners in the house on full blast. Thank goodness when my mom and sister went to check on the house days later no one was hurt. That scared me enough from ever entertaining the idea of rental propety!
January 24th, 2010 at 7:13 am
Here in the Boston area, multi-unit housing is very common. These look like regular detached houses but either each floor is a separate unit, or two floors are one unit and the other floor is a smaller unit. When I was looking to buy I specifically wanted a multi-unit house, because that was the only way I could afford to own anywhere near the city.
So far it’s worked out really well. I don’t use an agent to find tenants (Craigslist is cheaper for them and for me) but I do use a credit check agency to make sure they’re financially stable. The tenants give permission for this on their application.
The one-bedroom unit on the third floor is rented out by a tenant who’s on her third year here now; the second floor tenant is on his second year. I’m on the first floor and take care of the landscaping and so on myself, and I try to be very responsive if (when!) it’s time to call the plumber / electrician / whoever. I want my tenants to take care of my property; trying to save money by not fixing things isn’t savings if your good tenants leave.
There were existing tenants in the house when I bought it, and one of them “forgot” to pay the rent about half the time. So yeah, choosing the right tenants is everything. At least here in Massachusetts, rental laws strongly favor the tenants, so with bad or destructive tenants, you could be really stuck.
January 24th, 2010 at 7:27 am
I think this is a great story. You did you research on prices. You figured out financing ahead of time. You researched how auctions work. And it seems like you are renting in the same town you live in. And you know how to do minor repairs on the house.
Congrats on the due diligence you put into buying a rental. It paid off.
January 24th, 2010 at 7:29 am
My parents have been landlords for many years. They bought in area’s that they were familiar with and did most of the work themselves. Now that they are aging, they are selling the properties because the upkeep between tenants (repainting, recarpeting, drywall work, possible rent court etc) is too demanding and too expensive to hire out.
DH and I would love to buy a rental but we want it close to home and homes are still overpriced in the area. We keep an eye on the auctions and foreclosures but out of town banks who own the properties seem willing to keep a property on the market for 1 year+ rather than drop the price.
January 24th, 2010 at 7:53 am
I don’t understand the comment: “With our limited income, we felt like we didn’t have the money to put in stocks.” You didn’t feel like you could afford to contribute to an index fund, but you had no qualms putting much of your personal portfolio into an illiquid, highly volatile, high maintenance investment like rental property? Seems like this is only something you would think about doing AFTER you’ve maxed out your options in areas like stocks, bonds, etc., and even then I might consider investing in REITs other than rental property. See this post for more details on this strategy:
http://badmoneyadvice.com/2009/07/owning-rental-property-or-owning-reits.html
January 24th, 2010 at 7:53 am
My wife and I have also considered owning rental property, it really sounds like you did your research to make sure you made a good investment. My BIL rented out his house for two years when he was in grad school and never had a pro lem. He used a property management company though since he was out of state. I am
curious if you use a lawyer to do your leases
or how that whole process even works.
January 24th, 2010 at 8:05 am
Wait… did I miss the second part of Baker’s story?
January 24th, 2010 at 8:28 am
I agree with Kevin 100%. What happens if you’re renters give you trouble? What happens if they move out and you can’t find a new tenant right away? Can you afford 2 houses by yourself? You’ve probably thought of all these things, and that’s fine if it works for you. I wouldn’t want to deal with it myself. But I’d like to offer an alternative view of rental properties - not from the tenants point of view, but from the non-renting neighbors. I’m tired of “averages Joes” getting into rental properties. Actually I’m tired of rental properties period. I actually own my home and it gets really frustrating to see other houses in my neighborhood put up for rent. The turnover in these rental properties is high and the tenants have no vested interest in keeping up the quality of the neighborhood. Sure the property owners are still responsible for following the covenants, but getting them to comply is a hassle and they are never going to put more than a bare minimum of effort into a property that’s not their primary residence.
January 24th, 2010 at 8:31 am
I’ve been toying with the idea of rental properties for a while. As a recent college grad with tons of school loan debt (>100,000), buying a duplex and living in one half seemed like the easiest way to minimize my monthly required spending, while also building my net worth at the same time.
It’s reassuring to hear success stories from regular people. I hope everything keeps going well from you, and would definitely look forward to any follow-ups on your story!
January 24th, 2010 at 8:31 am
There are lots of resources for landlords, and as a landlord I use all of them. One example is a website called mrlandlord.com. They have a section where you can post your question or problem for free and other landlords will offer suggestions on how to handle.
Being a landlord is not for everyone. There are problems. But one thing that most - in fact just about everyone - fails to consider is this: How much time and effort does it take for a person to get up, get ready, and go to work every morning? Do you believe that amount of effort is more or less than the amount of effort it takes to manage rental properties?
I work all day and have four rentals on the side. And the problems do come in waves and tenants don’t pay and etc etc etc - but if you treat your rentals like a business and screen your tenants (don’t rent to scum!) and put the fear of God in them when they sign your landlord-friendly lease, your tenants will treat you right.
But if you are afraid, no worries! More rentals for me.
Barry - are you ready to buy another if the right one comes along?
January 24th, 2010 at 8:38 am
I’ve always wanted to invest in real estate - so far it’s just been my own - this is a great story!
I had a colleague who bought her first home - cash, then continued to live like a college student and saved her money to buy her second home - cash. She rented it, and used the money to buy her next home. She has ~10 now… took her about 25 years. She just sent her first child to the college of her choice - she told me that - if she needed it - she could just sell one of her properties to pay for it. I was envious. (She still eats PB&J everyday… knows where every penny goes - a good GRS story)
In retrospect, I wish I would’ve approached my parents to help me buy a place when I went to grad school… That would’ve been 6 years of paying myself (my family) instead of renting… I’m hoping to be able to do this when/if my kids decide to live in a college town.
January 24th, 2010 at 8:40 am
Hey Barry, thanks for your post. I own a couple rentals, one which I manage, another which the resort managers. It’s not a walk in the park I agree, and there’s an added layer of tax understanding to it.
However, after the first year or two, it really goes on autopilot, and you can start seeing the benefits owning rentals have to your retirement portfolio by year 3 at the latest. Value of the property is nice, but the real value is in the CASH FLOW.
Economy sucks, people rent and rent holds steady or even goes up sometimes. Economy is good, people buy, and rent goes up because people can’t buy due to outrageous prices.
Sam
January 24th, 2010 at 8:48 am
Oh JD - your comment was unnecessary because this post was extremely well written.
I read this with a lot of interest. My hubby and I bought our first home-got a great deal, but live in a middle-lower income neighborhood. We have horror stories from the rental property next door (drugs, handguns, fistfights, etc.). That house was recently foreclosed upon and is now going for $99,000 on the real estate market. If my husband and I were in the financial condition to do so, I almost want to buy it so we can have control over who our next neighbors are going to be (or else bulldoze the house and have a super big lot.) It’s just nice to know that some rental properties have a “happily ever after.”
Thanks for sharing Barry!
January 24th, 2010 at 8:59 am
@Kevin
I don’t think he wrote this post to ask for advice on how he should invest his discretionary income, he wrote it to tell how he used his. The point of when and how you should invest is specific for each person to decide for themselves.
I do agree if you plan to be a landlord you should have some handyman skills (and I don’t mean changing light bulbs) and a savings fund large enough to deal with repairs. We’ve been considering purchasing a rental as well, but just haven’t found the right property yet.
Regarding property managers: I wouldn’t purchase a property, rent it, then rely on property managers to oversee the property for you. It goes back to the basic rules of personal finance, nobody cares as much about your money as you do.
January 24th, 2010 at 9:23 am
Here in the UK property according to my valuations is very over priced. I’m therefore on the other side to that of Barry. I’m a renter.
Now I’m looking to save as much of my gross earnings as I physically can as part of my retirement investing strategy and so I am looking for every way to reduce my monthly outgoings.
So when my rental agreement came up for renewal I took advantage of what Barry mentions in his first paragraph. The fact that I pay on time and don’t trash the building. I was therefore able to negotiate a nice rental reduction freeing yet more money for my retirement.
January 24th, 2010 at 9:25 am
Thanks for the interesting post. I’ve been thinking about rental properties, but Central New Jersey is just really expensive to buy in. In order to make some money (or break even), I would have to buy a duplex or a triplex. A handyman special goes for between $250-300k.
January 24th, 2010 at 9:45 am
Barry, thanks for sharing your story. I also hope to have a rental property someday (more along the duplex-that-you-live-in-too lines).
DP, my initial reaction is that you’re discriminating on the basis of age. Now I know that as a landlord you can discriminate against smokers and pets, but I’m not sure your age requirement is legal (I guess it depends on your state - anyone know more?).
I guess since I’m 23 I’ve trashed every place I ever lived and never paid rent.
January 24th, 2010 at 9:50 am
Really nice article Barry! I hope you have a great side business for years to come.
i am with @21. I plan on renting after we are done with the mid section of our retirement. We have always been great tenants- paying before time, fixing small things ourselves.
We built a house three years before my husband’s military retirement and rented it out. Our property manager knew it was nice- so advertised by word of mouth. In Arizona it is difficult to legally “cut people out”. In fact @24- you cannot discriminate because of age (I think that is a federal law). He only told people he knew would take care of it.They all rented and then bought a house from him:>) Sweet deal for all.
We have toyed with purchasing a house that our daughter’s family could live in. They cannot get into the market. Later, when they have the money- they could buy it from us. Not sure it is going to happen. We will see after the payments they are making for money they borrowed works out….track record- even in families:>)
January 24th, 2010 at 9:51 am
We’re renting our house for the year… it was kind of a nightmare. We learned that background checks on tenants are very important… people who offered us the full rent had no means of support, smoked, had arrest records for non-payment, etc. (Some prospective tenants just evaporated upon hearing the words “background check.”) If we weren’t locked into a home owners association it would have been much easier because we could have rented to 3 unrelated medical students or 4 unrelated PhD students.
It would also have been easier if we didn’t own such a nice house– there seems to be a maximum rent that a working class or graduate student couple can pay and our mortgage is well over that. In the end we’re getting less than our mortgage amount, but it is better than nothing. And it would have been easier if we were renting out long-term rather than for a limited amount of time (apparently there are a lot of 2 year contracts for professional people, especially in construction).
Our case is different because we intend to move back to our house in a year. We mostly learned what not to do if renting out a place. I really hope that our house is in reasonably good shape once we return and we’ve allotted some emergency funding for fixing things if necessary should they need it.
I’m not sure how legal this is, but one of my colleagues recommended advertising in churches of the LDS– he had had good success with Mormon tenants in the past. (You’re not allowed to make decisions on who to rent to based on religion, but you might be allowed to advertise that way. We never got around to posting a flier there.)
January 24th, 2010 at 10:11 am
A friend of mine was left a small house by her grandmother. It was converted into a duplex and she lives in one unit and rents out the other.
We live in a college town and she gets a lot of college students as tenants. However, she has had some of the worst tenants - ones who pay late, ones who trash the place, ones who are loud, etc, and, the worst, ones who move out after two months providing only two weeks notice. It tends to have a vacant room a lot. I’ve been trying to convince her to institute an annual lease instead of letting tenants rent month-to-month, and up the notification time to at least a month.
She’s actually being sued right now over a deposit she didn’t refund because of the state the tenant left the place in. Unfortunately, she didn’t make any documentation - just cleaned it to get it ready to rent again, so she’s trying to round up witnesses who will testify to the state it was in when the tenant left.
My wife and I have toyed with the idea of renting a larger apartment next year and sub-letting a room. Based on rents in the area it’s a financially good idea. However, based on the problems our friend is having with tenants, we are rather skittish.
January 24th, 2010 at 10:15 am
My grandmother came to this country from Spain before the Depression, unable to speak English, not educated.
After she married (on the boat coming over!) the first thing she did was take my grandfather’s meager pay, save it and buy up (very) small houses in the neighborhood. And they had 8 kids!
When she died at 92 she left 12 houses in her estate.
She used to say to me as a little kid, “buy land, they don’t make it anymore”
January 24th, 2010 at 11:11 am
Great post! I am a Realtor (have been for 22 years) and I just wanted to say that not every Realtor makes a killing off of investors… Many of my clients over the years have purchased one income property from me, and I appreciated their sale each time, and treated each one as an important transaction, no matter what the price of the property ended up being.
Congrats to you on taking the plunge and starting to build wealth for yourself…welcome to the club! If you are in the market for a nice 2-flat in Geneva, IL call me… I have 2 great ones!!
January 24th, 2010 at 11:24 am
Owning a rental property can be a very good thing, but there are a lot of caveats and not something to be taken lightly. I had 2 rental properties, one of which was a duplex which I resided in. On site management was fairly easy since - not much more difficult than owning a single family. If you have a good tenants - it is almost too easy. Bad tenants can be a nightmare.
When you sell a rental property - Uncle Sam is your partner! You are taxed on the gain unlike a personal residence. The best option is to convert the property back to your personal residence for the requisite period of time and save on the taxes, if possible.
January 24th, 2010 at 11:27 am
We, too, got caught on the front end of the bubble. My husband lost his job and had to take another in another state and our house was in the middle of a remodel. We couldn’t sell it without taking a huge hit, but couldn’t rent it for full fair market value because of its condition. We ended up renting it out for about half of the monthly mortgage, and the tenant was sort of OK. She was late twice, bounced the rent check twice, violated several terms of the lease, but at least we had someone IN the house (which was apparently REALLY important to our insurance company). We ran the numbers and she would never have been able to buy the house outright anyway, although she said multiple times that they might be interested in buying it. Long story short, it worked as a temporary thing, and when my husband ended up losing the new job and finding one here, we moved back in to our house. I would do it again, but am hoping that it will work out a little more in our favor financially in the future.
January 24th, 2010 at 11:34 am
I’d been wanting to buy an apartment to rent it out (in France).
When I looked into them, they were way too expensive, and the bank wouldn’t give us a credit because the rent couldn’t count towards our available income, so they thought we “couldn’t afford it” (even though we could twice over, even before being paid rent).
That, and the average property took about 12 years to pay for itself (that is, we’d get our money back after 12 years of rent) which seemed too long to me.
And I guess I was right since we ended up moving to Canada, if we had sold the apartment we wouldn’t even have gotten all of our money back due to the interest rates.
January 24th, 2010 at 11:38 am
Great story! I accidentally entered into being a landlord. My company transferred me one year after I had bought a house, so I decided to rent it rather than sell it. It has worked out well. I actually spent quite a bit of time finding someone to manage the property for me. That adds costs, but I was too far away to do it any other way.
I’ve since gone on to buy and rent another property as well. The thing I learned in all my rental experiences is that there are multiple reasons to buy a property and rent it. You can buy and rent a property for income, in which case like you did, you make sure what you can charge for rent is more than your costs. However, you can also buy a property for appreciation. My 2nd property I bought for growth potential in a foreign city I happen to know well which has great growth in the 8% per year range. Additionally, when the costs exceed what you take in, you have capital loss. For other investments, it is beneficial to have some capital loss to offset the capital gains.
January 24th, 2010 at 11:50 am
While you may have had a good experience with auctions, that is not always the case - even with thorough due diligence. Some owners who know that their house is going to be put on the auction block will literally destroy their property, selling their appliances, ripping out the carpet and cabinets.
In California at least, would-be auction buyers are not allowed to inspect the property whatsoever. So what you see (from the outside) is what you get. There could be extensive damage on the interior of the house so it really is a gamble and while you can get a great deal there also is the chance that it may cost you more than you bargained for.
January 24th, 2010 at 11:50 am
I am one of those “average joes” that owns a rental property. I have been a landlord for almost 4 years now and I have been very lucky my first time out. I have a great tenant that I’ve had since I first rented the property. She has only been late with the rent one time in the last 4 years and she doesn’t call me for minor repairs. In fact, she calls me so rarely, when she does call, I start to freak out a little because I know something big is wrong.
It can be a good experience or it can be a nightmare. Luckily, I haven’t had any nightmare tenants (yet).
I wrote a post about how I became a landlord. Hopefully, JD doesn’t mind me posting a link to it.
http://www.singleguymoney.com/2007/10/how-i-became-landlord.html
January 24th, 2010 at 11:55 am
I think I’m with Kevin @11 on this. As someone who has owned both stocks/mutual funds and real estate, I think stocks are a bit easier to manage than real estate - and they are easier to get out of if things head south. That being said, I think real estate could be a good way to diversify your finances (once you’ve got the foundation of your financial life set up).
I would hesitate to go back to renting for the reasons others have mentioned. But if we did, I’d definitely (1) do the due diligence that Barry did on the property, PLUS (2) the due diligence that others mentioned on the tenants AND (3) work with properties near where we live. Long distance landlording for the average Josephine can be painful.
January 24th, 2010 at 11:58 am
We own multiple rental properties.
We keep to single family homes that are cheap enough that if empty we can cover the morgage.
Background checks are important. Mr. Sam does the vast majority of the work himself. It takes time and energy which means that some times weekends are just house projects.
The best part of real estate investments is that our tenants are building our equity for us.
We keep our properties well kept and most of the time our property is the nicest one on the block.
We learned real estate from my grandparents who at one point had 20 properties.
There is also a great tax benefit to real estate investments but we are being audited by the IRS so we’ll see how it turns out.
January 24th, 2010 at 12:36 pm
Interesting story - thanks for sharing.
I have to say that the idea of a couple who only make $60k wanting a rental property bought at auction is very risky.
King of like buying junior mining stocks. Nothing wrong with it, but it’s not a great strategy for the “average Joe”.
January 24th, 2010 at 12:49 pm
This is a really interesting post. As a renter I always find it kind of interesting to see the perspective of the landlord, especially people who just have one or two rental properties.
I had no idea people were so afraid of tenants! When I think of the ideal landlord/tenant relationship I always remember this great 4-plex I lived in in Oakland, CA. The landlord/owner lived in the unit next to us on the top floor, and the bottom two units were mature, long-term tenants. When we went to look at the apartment my roommate and I were really impressed with how clean and well kept the outside areas were. I know a lot of owners are afraid of renting to younger people, and it’s true that we tend to move around more often so we may leave after a year or two, but seeing how much respect the owner had for her building made us respect it too. She wasn’t so much interested in credit and background checks as she was in our references, and I think that deterred a lot of shadier characters from applying. I think a lot of renters are wary of “average joe” owners because they think they might be slum lords, so the amount of care you put into maintaining the property really matters when finding a responsible tenant.
January 24th, 2010 at 1:13 pm
For me, owning rental property is a good fit. I can fix anything, and I mean anything that goes wrong. And my wife is an attorney who can deal with the other end of the business.
Before I met my wife, I got very lucky in RE. I never made much of a yearly income, but with a few RE investments, I did quite well.
Living in SoCal properties though are still way too expensive. If they were to drop another 50%, I may start taking another look.
PS. A short comment to GRS. I really like that I can go back and get a chance to re-edit my comment. How do you do that?
And I thank you so much for your blog. I get tremendous value. I wish you success in your book also.
January 24th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
I rented our townhouse for 5 yrs. My advice is the following:
- no matter how nearby\handy you are, get a property manager. They become the required 3rd party to act according to the lease/law.
- be creative to keep good tenants. No matter how hard you try, you lose at least 1 months rent btw tenants. This is a fact. We offered a better price for a longer contract. In addition, we offered reduction for other items like carpet cleaning and such if they stayed on longer. It is always cheaper to keep a tenant.
- have your own handy man fix things.
- know where your house’s weaknesses are. I mean know what you may have to fix while renting and plan for those items.
- know your area and the avg rent, you have to change your price with the market.
- expect damage. However, write it into the lease that every 3-6 months a physical inspection is required! This only takes 30 mins to complete.
January 24th, 2010 at 2:20 pm
Would-be purchasers need to do their homework before buying at auction. My brother nearly bid on a condo with a lien on it that would have turned his investment into a real nightmare. He didn’t know about the lien beforehand, he claims that his “intuition” prevented him from making a bid on the condo on auction day.
But it’s good to know that, once someone has navigated the potential minefields, being a landlord can be a rewarding and profitable experience!
January 24th, 2010 at 2:48 pm
I’ve lived in places where housing is so affordable and stable, even during the past couple of years, that owning was the only way to go. I’ve also lived in places where the volatility and housing prices are so high, renting would be a great choice. There’s no blanket answer for everyone… but both are great options depending on one’s abilities, needs, situations, etc.
January 24th, 2010 at 3:50 pm
What happened to the second part of Baker’s story?
January 24th, 2010 at 4:28 pm
The second part of Baker’s story hasn’t gone up yet. He hasn’t given it to me!
January 24th, 2010 at 4:43 pm
When we bought our house we were moving from a rented duplex. Our new house had an apartment in it, and our old neighbor offered to move with us — it was a great deal for both of us; he paid half of the mortgage which was below-average rent, and we got tax benefits and paid down our mortgage faster. When he left to move to another state, we had two different friends who moved in for short periods of time (a year or so each), and also paid a modest but beneficial rent. When they moved out, we converted the apartment into space for ourselves — turning the extra kitchen into a laundry room probably reduced the value of the house, but by that time we had almost paid off the mortgage so we didn’t care. I don’t think we’ll ever want to be “real” landlords, but our experience was really good for us.
January 24th, 2010 at 5:13 pm
My husband and I have three rental units. We always take dated photos of the empty clean unit when we do the walk-though with new tenants. We give them a copy of the photos. We also take dated photos of the unit at the final walk-through when someone moves out. This has kept disagreements about the condition to a minimum.
January 24th, 2010 at 5:33 pm
My husband and I bought a duplex in a college town and lived in one side for two years. It was a great deal for us. Our tenant’s rent paid 3/4 of our mortgage and the work was not much more than would be required for a single home. Four years ago we moved out and rented both sides. It’s certainly harder to keep up on things now. Over the past four years we’ve financially broken even on rent. With the lousy economy there have been no true capital gains (it’s worth a little more because we got a good purchase price and made some repairs). It would be difficult to sell right now, though. Some tenants have been better than others, but we have had no nightmare scenarios. This, I think, is partly luck and partly diligence. Assuming things go as planned, we should have the mortgage paid off in about three more years. At that point, it should turn into a cash cow.
I think the “average Joe” can make money at rentals, but it isn’t exactly “passive” income. It requires capital, work, knowledge and risk tolerance.
One piece of advice: follow the 1% rule of thumb. If you can’t get at least 1% of your purchase cost in rent every month it’s probably not a great deal.
January 24th, 2010 at 5:35 pm
I currently control 18 units and have owned as many as 21 units over the past 15 years. I have had tenants attempt to squat in one of my properties, I have had tenants trash a unit, someone drove a car into one of my buildings and did I mention, I have been sued? I don’t say any of these things to discourage anyone from going into real estate, I only mention these things to say that craziness can be a part of any business! The truth at least for me is that real estate is and should be part of a cashflow strategy for building income in retirement. The tax advantages simply cannot be beat! I would recommend to Barry that he place his property in an LLC and that he purchase a liability umbrella. This is a very inexpensive path to peace of mind for anyone wishing to own real estate.
January 24th, 2010 at 5:37 pm
I like what the writer had to say about his rental experience.
After the last few years in the stock market, who can argue that diversification is a smart move. There are a lot of advantages in rental property - the depreciation and other tax write offs are important up front. Plus, once it is paid off, who would not like a extra rent check to supplement things.
There are bad experiences, and of course the unwanted repairs - like the AC unit going out in July. You have to be willing to accept that, but otherwise there are definately a lot of advantages to having rental property.
January 24th, 2010 at 6:13 pm
Interesting that nobody challenged the statements “Auctions are scary places to buy houses. There are no contingencies, no home inspections, and everything is final when the auction is done.”
We bought the house we live in at auction through Tranzon, and we were allowed to do a home inspection post-sale, found the finished basement hadn’t been permitted through the county - and negotiated a $10,000 price reduction from what we had bid at auction (because this clearly was a defect not readily apparent to walk-through inspections by prospective buyers). So, buying at auction was fine for us (although we spent $27,000 improving the house in the next 3 years - mostly to undo the half-baked “handy”man work done by previous owners).
Regarding rental properties, I have two relatives who were burned by renters (one in the past that vows never to own a rental again, and another who currently has a tenant who has been more than 30 days late with the rent on two separate occasions, which results in eviction processing costs for the owner that cannot be recouped when the tenant suddenly pays past due rent and is allowed to stay in the rental). With rentals, it all comes down to how thoroughly you screen your tenants up front. And, how good your lawyers are when tenants turn bad.
Rent in haste, repent at leisure, to paraphrase an old saying.
January 24th, 2010 at 7:16 pm
My wife and I felt we were unable to comfortably purchase the house we thought we would like to live in. We were able to purchase a Duplex, with the extra income from the rental. We found out that being close to your rental is extremely important. Ten years later we were able to purchase the house of our dreams. My advice to anyone looking to own rentals is to read your state’s Landlord Tenant laws very carefully. As a matter of fact I keep a copy at my desk always. I charged the maximum deposit, and gave it back on the last day possible, usually 30 days after move out. We took pictures of before and after. Sending someone digital pictures of before and after, who has left you with a mess to take care of stopped lawsuit threats. Sometimes it seemed that I check my prospects too close and would go a month without renting, but it paid off. We would go over the entire unit with our renter, noting every scratch or dent on appliances or walls and doors. Both the renter and I would sign the handwritten document, and we each got a copy once the rental agreement was signed. That document paid for its self many times over. I think someone here said treat it strickly like a business which is the best advice possible. Per your landlord Tenant of your state, start eviction notice on the exact day you are legally able to after not recieving rent. For me in my state, it was 15days after the due date. If rent was due on the 1st, I gave a 5 day grace period with a 5 dollar per day fee. On the 15th if I had not recieved rent, an eviction notice was give, and they had 30 days after to catch up. Everything was done in writing, and 99 percent of the time, because you had done everything in writing and pictures to back up, the bad renters did not even try and fight.
January 24th, 2010 at 7:20 pm
Great post.
I had thought about getting into the rental game, but it seems to me that you’d need a ton of fix-it-yourself type knowledge in order to keep costs down (at least in the beginning). That’s one thing that made me steer clear of it.
But again, great post.
January 25th, 2010 at 6:28 am
My husband bought a house on some land in a commercial district before we were married. He uses the commercial property for his business and also rents out two of the spaces, which is a nice source of income. His son and daughter in law have lived in the house about two years now. They have financial difficulties and recently were laid off. We’ve received one month of rent in two years. Do we kick the kids and grandkids out or just let it slide? My husband owns the property so we don’t have a payment on it. Just wanted to know how others handled relatives living in the rental properties.
January 25th, 2010 at 7:25 am
I agree with Kevin - how does an $80,000 combined income preclude investing in stocks? I don’t understand that statement at all.
I would say that this is a very risky venture - you have put all your eggs in one basket.
And it has only been six months since you bought the place. I would hardly write this as a success story just yet - you have years and years before you can say whether this was a good idea or not. Huge repairs down the road, bad renters, or too much rental competition can eat into your profits and turn a good investment, bad. You just don’t know yet.
I do hope everything works out for you though.
J.D. - I would prefer to hear stories from a landlord with years of experience, instead of a flash in the pan story that has yet to be concluded.
January 25th, 2010 at 7:51 am
I’m another one of those live-in-one-side-of-the-duplex, rent-out-the-other and it’s been a good deal for me. I originally purchased this place as sort of a mortgage subsidy for myself as well as to get experience in learning to be a landlord. I very nearly purchased the duplex next door as well but that deal fell through due to some shady dealings on the part of the seller/realtor.
Anyway, I think doing the duplex thing is a great way to get your feet wet in the landlording business. I’ve had some tenants that were better than others but no nightmares really. One way to keep the emergency calls at bay is to maintain your properties. All of the issues I’ve had so far have been minor and by me living next door it really makes things convenient.
I would also advise you to screen tenants very, very well. I tend to take my time finding the right people by doing income verification, landlord references, credit checks, etc. and have turned down many, many people. You have to be careful though that you’re not discriminating (like the guy above who won’t rent to the <25 year-olds…he’d better hope he doesn’t get sued because that is completely illegal). The best way to do this is to come up with a set of criteria and apply the same criteria to everyone that comes through and keep the supporting documentation for a while in case a scorned applicant causes trouble. I use the standard set of criteria put forth by my local apartment association so I’m sure my criteria are legal. Use Craigslist to advertise: it’s free and you get a higher caliber of tenant than using a lawn sign and/or the paper.
I’m enjoying the reader submissions JD. Great idea!
January 25th, 2010 at 8:14 am
I have a house to rent but the authors should write an article on how to choose the tenants….That’s what I am interested in.
January 25th, 2010 at 8:40 am
Kudos to Barry for taking the plunge.
I have owned a multi-unit house (the area sounds similar to #2/Lise’s post) for 2 years now and it’s been quite successful. It’s not generating much cashflow (around even), but the mortgage is payed in full each month, and the rent also covers basic maintenance/management fees.
It’s been successful so far thanks to:
1) Good tenants - to get good tenants, we bought a house in a friendly, safe area, and made sure both flats were in great condition and above average spec. We’ve had multiple options for tenants whenever there has been a vacancy as a result - creating demand is key!
2) Good managing agent - they take 9% off of the rent, but our agent has kept the place filled (no vacancies in last 12 months), has adjusted rents to market (upwards!), organises prompt maintenance and gives us complete peace of mind - well worth the expense. Money is a tool after all!
3) The Bottom Line - in our local market, multi-unit buildings give better return on investment. It’s a lovely house, but we bought it knowing how the numbers stacked up. Don’t even think about buying without extensive local research into rates.
January 25th, 2010 at 8:52 am
My husband and I plan on buying a rental house as soon as we can save up a 20% downpayment and an extra emergency fund…probably another 2-3 years. We’ve rented out our spare bedroom for the last 2 years and haven’t had any major problems. I’ve also seen how my parents’ rental has worked for them.
We’ll be close to paying off our own home and will be able to handle both mortgage payments at the same time if necessary. I feel comfortable becoming landlords since we also have a pension, 401k, two Roth IRA’s, our Scottrade account, and regular savings…as long as our bases are covered, I’m good with branching out.
Plus, it feels good to know that we are doing all of this in our late twenties with a combined income of about $78,000…it is possible for average people to save extraordinarily if they successfully prioritize their wants and needs.
Congrats and good luck to the poster!
January 25th, 2010 at 9:16 am
As a landlord of two properties, my opinion is that now is not a great time to invest in rental property. Sure, interest rates are low, but the problem is that the rental markets are flooded everywhere with the recent housing-bubble collapse.
This is not to say that investing in rental property is a dumb move right now. I am merely saying that the rental market conditions are lousy. Investing in rentals could be a smart move for you, depending on your situation (i.e. have large savings for expenses, have the opportunity to buy a great house on the cheap, etc.).
As for myself, I have two properties that I bought while I was in the military. As a single guy, I held onto them when I moved because I could control my personal expenses and still cover rental expenses.
For my situation, the tax write-off has been phenomenal, allowing me to drop at least one tax bracket (and claim additions credits in doing so). However, that is a double-edged sword, I am able to claim a large deduction because I am also posting a large loss for 2009 ($16,000 for the two properties). Note that this is the “paper” loss (includes repairs, interest, insurance, warranties, payments/utilies during vacant months, etc), my actual “out-of-pocket” was much lower.
Personally, I prefer to have a property manager handle the day-to-day management. This is mostly due to the fact that the properties are out-of-state. Also, I can deduct their fee on taxes (typically 10% of rents received), which is well worth it to me (to avoid the headaches of dealing with the tenants on a daily basis). The most important step is to research the firms in your target area and not just blindly choose a manager. A bad property manager can allow your property to be ruined. I prefer smaller property management companys because I feel they take a greater interest in managing your property (due to the fact that your property is a greater percentage of their overall accounts).
Rental income appeals to people for a variety of reasons, but the most prominent is consistent, recurring income. However, you need to realize that unexpected expenses can and do happen, which can reduce/eliminate that income stream.
The bottom-line is: if you do not have the time/money to invest in a house for 30 years or so, you should seriously look into investing in REIT’s or the ilk.
January 25th, 2010 at 9:49 am
We bought a house when we moved to this area, moved out two years later, and now it’s a rental. We managed it ourselves the first three years and now we have a management company. We have had problems with every single tenant and have learned a lot about landlord tenant laws (and even more about bankruptcy as two declared bankruptcy after leaving us with unpaid rent, and the third declared bankruptcy while in the house to avoid paying rent for five months).
The first tenant was actually a landlord himself and moved in as he sold all of his properties and got a divorce. His credit was great, but it turned out that it was great because his wife paid the bills and all of his houses were leveraged to the max. He declared bankruptcy as his house of cards was falling down.
The second tenant was a nurse with a single child. She had middle of the road credit and fell behind by lending money to family that didn’t pay her back and she couldn’t ever make it back. She was only a month behind in rent, but she left quickly leaving us scrambling.
The third was the worst. We were vacant nearing the holidays and they had good references. The said they were going through bankruptcy, but that turned out to be a lie (if they had already been IN bankruptcy we would have been protected as a post-bankruptcy debt if they defaulted). They filed bankruptcy two months after moving in, and we found out later they were ineligible and it took five months to get it dismissed so metro-court would hear our eviction.
After we got them out we hired the management company. It took them three months and a drop in rent to find a tenant (our market is really weak right now), but we haven’t had a problem getting our money, there’s just a bit less of it. I have found they spend my money quite a bit more freely than they would if it were their own. But I expected that.
Right now the managers are worth it because we don’t have enough time. We could find the time to call plumbers and fix stuff on weekends, but as soon as you have to evict, or sue for damages, or anything that requires your presence, you have to fit it in with the rest of your life. That can be a problem depending on your job. As a previous poster said: You have to stay up on it. You can’t file eviction ’sometime this week’, you have to do it now, or your tenants aren’t going to take you as seriously next time.
I also found that many renters are like children. They will get away with as much as you let them. Tell them they can pay you a couple days late this month, they’re likely to try it again next month. That isn’t to say you need to always be a hard-ass. But most people I know err on the side of being too nice, expecting their renters to want to do the right thing and pay their bills. The truth of many (not all) renters is that if they were more diligent about paying their bills they would be home owners. People rent for a variety of reasons, but there is a home owner mentality and a home renter mentality.
January 25th, 2010 at 11:05 am
I wonder if somewhere here has done the math to calculate the ROI of their rental properties? Not just “rent divided by purchase price”, but also including maintenance costs, expenses to find renters etc., plus any work you have to put into management (at what hourly rate?)
I’d be surprised if it’s substantially more than what riskier bonds would yield.
January 25th, 2010 at 11:17 am
Here is a question for landlords. Lately there have been a recall notice on those roll type blinds, is it the responsibility of the tenant to notify the landlord, or should the landlord know what type of blinds are in the house and be pro-active in replacing them himself without the tenant having to tell him?
January 25th, 2010 at 12:49 pm
@Lars/#61 - absolutely - I think it’s essential for people do to that before going in!
My own spreadsheet is now eye-wateringly complicated, but very useful.
I initially invested $68K (downpayment, closing costs etc), and have factored in all costs - upkeep, insurance, water bills, etc.
Last year was the second year we owned the house. The ROI was 4.90%. This year will (hopefully) be slightly higher (projected to be 5.21%, barring emergencies etc). ROI generally improves year-on-year as your mortgage is paid down (this depends on exact amortization schedule - I use Excel PMT formula, which gives a good approximation).
This doesn’t include capital appreciation of the property. That has been going up steadily as well, but isn’t something we’re looking at actively because we plan to hold this as an income property for retirement.
January 25th, 2010 at 12:52 pm
We just picked up 2 rentals out of state. Me and my lady are just average joes punching a clock at a manufacturing plant, both in our mid 20’s.
Both houses have been rehabbed and occupied, professionally managed (out of state). I have never owned a piece of real estate besides these first 2 rentals. I even rent my own living quarters. It’s scary at first, but if you realize that in this business you learn on your own mistakes/mishaps, you’re much better off - because there will be issues from time to time.
I would say I’m much better off than investing in stocks, due to the fact that I’ve lost money in stocks in the past. But at that time I did not know how to insure my positions.
It has been 6 months now, and I haven’t seen my properties in person, but the checks keep coming in - that’s all I care about. And no I don’t think I’m a slum lord, both properties have been somewhat extensively rehabbed with 8-12k worth of work per house, hence I don’t stress over it. That and the manager makes it real easy for me to sleep at night.
January 25th, 2010 at 1:30 pm
I own two rental properties and use a property manager to rent them. I recommend this at first because they will check the credit score of the tenant and previous payment history as well as manage they daily activity it is more expensive but most everythiing is a write off. I aquired both of my properties by buying the house living in it for a few years, fixing it up, paying down the morgate with additonal payments and refinacing for the lower amount thus reducing the monthly payment and make the rent affordable. This allowed me to create a positive cash flow in the house. I would also set up a bank account that directly desposits the rent and leave the profits in the account until you have about $5,000 for repairs ( after I have a repair fund I leave the money in the account and use it for the down payment on my next primary residents turning my current house into a rental as well) I have used this method for 6 years and am going to buy my fourth house in about another 4-6 years. This will allow me to have retirement vechicals seperate from stock, bonds, mutal funds and a city pension.
January 25th, 2010 at 2:28 pm
Ouida,
Thanks for the advice on getting an LLC. I will look into that!
January 25th, 2010 at 2:59 pm
I was a part time property manager of 26 units for 7 years and decided to take the plunge. The first property I bought was a 4 unit for about $9,000 out of pocket, which showed good income but was in a poor end of town and needed constant attention, either collecting rent or doing repairs. It took work, but I was prepared to endure it and put every dollar back into the property. I saw a chance 4 years later and sold the property and walked away with $32,000 which I used to purchase an 8 unit in a better area. This was 15 years ago, so I guess you could say I have quite a bit of experience. I bought another duplex 7 years ago with the profit from the 8 unit. My first rule is that the deal is made on the purchase. My second rule is that I never rent to friends or family. My third rule is that I do not disclose to the tenants that I own the property. I am merely a “Manager”, so I do not get emotionally involved with the situation and they do not try to give me a sob story. I also have an ongoing contest with my wife to see who has the best tenants to put into a unit, (we alternate and have to deal with the tenants we choose). We have no problem leaving a unit empty for months until the right tenant comes along. It is better to get a good tenant up front than have to deal with a bad one on the back end of the transaction. Also, when you have a property with multiple units you are not hit so hard on a vacancy. If you have a single family rental and no tenant, then you have no income, but if you have a 4 unit and a vacancy, then you are still getting 75% of the income. I am now looking at purchasing another 9 units, and all of this work will be for my retirement and my childrens education expenses. I am not getting rich quick, but I will retire securely, and yes, it does take some work, but if it was easy everyone would be doing it. I have tenant horror stories, but me and my wife treat it as a business and do not get emotionally involved.
January 25th, 2010 at 7:47 pm
We have been a landlord for 14 years and have had up to 20 units at one time. We have been very blessed with only one with $500 damaged which we took to court and received 1700 which was garnised from their wages. I am also a auctioneer and a real estate agent and have help many find very good auction and other properties to buy as well as managed some. One repo. I help a customer purchase for 55000, which I sold for him 10 months later for 96000 and all the while he was renting it for 600 a month. Auctions are a great way to buy properties, In our area we allow you to look and inspect anything you want before the auction. We also have the seller fill out a sellers discloser to be as open as possible.
The true money is made by being patient and purchasing at the right price with the intent to keep it for a rental. Let a good real estate agent know that if he comes across someone looking for that type of house you will sell it at the right price.
We have made more in real estate then any and all other stocks,mutal funds and other investments combined.
Always inspect the home at least two times a year,Take pictures with a date before you rent it and when they move out, charge a big per day late fee, and have a great lawyer that your not scared to call at anytime. Done right it is a great way to get rich slowly
January 25th, 2010 at 8:35 pm
I really enjoyed this post, as I have read on a number of blogs about the idea of owning rental properties as a way to provide a second source of income.
Along with a few of the other commenters, I wanted to make sure to provide a renter’s perspective. I am currently 25, finishing my master’s, on to a PhD next year, and have been renting since I was 20. I can understand not wanting to rent to someone <25, but it’s also very unfair for those of us who actually are responsible. In my case, my parents had to co-sign the lease of the first place I moved into, both in case of damages, and if I could not pay rent. So that’s one option. Also, many landlords in the Boston area ask for references from previous landlords, and that is another good way to screen any, but especially young, tenants.
My view of landlords - I will never trash a place, but your level of respect for the apartment will determine my level of cooperation with you. A decent looking place can still have a bad landlord, and there isn’t a good way to find that out as a renter. Case in point, I lived in a 5 bedroom apartment, with four other grad students, all in the same program. A sewer pipe in the basement burst. Long story short, we ended up paying for the cleaning because she stopped answering phone calls ($2300, who is the irresponsible party now?), and we were almost at the 24 hour period beyond which the cleaning company would have had to contact the health department and we would have been forced to stay in a hotel (the landlord has to pay for that, but it’s not the best option for 5 students, with 1 cat and 1 dog). Did not receive any response until we contacted with a lawyer, that finally got her attention. The worst part is that a sewer leak is covered by home owner’s insurance, and not something an insurance company can really argue about. So I guess they must not have had appropriate home owner’s insurance.
So please, be responsible landlords, be attentive to your renters. If I complain about the water not staying hot, I’m not being picky, it’s probably a sign of a maintenance problem that just hasn’t gotten to the point of being broken yet (I say this from experience).
Sorry for the semi-rant, but there are issues on both sides of the line. I am sympathetic about one of the commenters’ points that the rental properties near them are not taken care of. That 5 bedroom had the grass cut twice a year. Sorry, but I’m not about to buy my own mower when I’m paying to rent. I did plant flowers, but when the absentee owner decided to do some outside renovations, the workers tore them out. So guess who won’t ever be putting effort into landscaping on a rental property again. And just a note, if you are doing outside work on a house, you should still notify your renters. I didn’t enjoy the high powered washer in the middle of the summer with all the windows open.
January 26th, 2010 at 12:58 pm
Thanks for sharing your rental story. I have been reading and looking into the RE market for over a year now in an attempt to improve my cashflow. I think this is going to be a key part of personal finance for me and my family in the upcoming years and I look forward to more from GRS on this topic.
And I have to say that the commentors are very polite around here. You’ve built a great blog JD.
January 27th, 2010 at 11:50 am
Bought a rental property 9 years ago…best decision I ever made. I wouldn’t be where I am financially without it. Is it work at times…yup. But worth it. I agree with the comment that things come in waves.
January 27th, 2010 at 2:56 pm
Lars@61 said: “I wonder if somewhere here has done the math to calculate the ROI of their rental properties? Not just “rent divided by purchase price”, but also including maintenance costs, expenses to find renters etc., plus any work you have to put into management (at what hourly rate?)
I’d be surprised if it’s substantially more than what riskier bonds would yield.”
I did, and started a blog (see link above) to share my findings with others.
That spreadsheet saved us and prevented us from buying a Duplex at the peak of the market, when everything was overpriced. Luckily I listened to that sheet and the advice of the Wall Street Journal Guide to Real Estate Investing that differentiated between investing (cash flow) and speculating (relying on appreciation).
I’d be happy to share the spreadsheet, just contact me through the blog.
January 27th, 2010 at 8:13 pm
When I met my wife in 2003, she had been living in a two family home that she owned while renting out the other unit. It was in an area of the city I wasn’t familiar with even though I had been a resident for 30 years. I also never knew anybody else who had done that. I discovered that the rent from the other unit covered her mortgage, insurance and taxes except for $84 a month, I was intrigued.
In August of 2003 I bought another two family home a mile away from her with no money down and got $751 back at closing. It seemed like a smart deal at the time, but the fact is, No Money Down typically means you really just financed the normal downpayment and closing fees. In six plus years, I’ve been fine, and it cashflows $250 a month so I’m knocking on wood. The only issue is that I bought a home for about 10% more than it was worth…but someone else (my tenants) is paying off the mortgage.
Then in November 2003, I did the same thing again, but this time got a pretty good deal on the home so that I didn’t own more than it was worth. This third home cash flows $200 a month.
In March 2009, we bought a single family home with Cash and we moved there, thus renting out my wife’s initial two family home. So that home now cash flows $420 a month. In six plus years with three properties containing six apartments I’ve only had one vacancy that lasted 45 days. I think I’ve been lucky so far, but it’s working and we’re in our mid thirties, with a paid off primary home, a year and a half away from paying off one of the other houses and we cashflow just under $900 a month. All this on my Project Manager’s salary, while my wife now stays home with our baby triplets.
So, it definitely can be done. It’s not always feasible in every area of every country, but it can be done.
- Charley
January 28th, 2010 at 6:03 pm
Charlie,
I love that story! I hope to be in your position in a few years!
January 29th, 2010 at 8:47 am
I have been a landlord for almost five years now. I have two properties in my home state and I live about four hours away now. I have had about five different tenants with only one being a nightmare one. I am fortunate in which my father used to build and rent properties back in the 80s, so I learned a lot from him.
I will keep this short and to the point of what I have learned so far…
1. If you want to have the least amount of headaches, have a management company handle the day-to-day business of renters. Mine charges me 10% of rents per month. When the renters pay late, they get charged $100, and I get that too. This method provides the least amount of headaches. Management companies are pretty equipped at weeding out bad renters.
2. Don’t get emotionally attached to your properties. They are not there for you to fall in love with. Case in point: the nightmare renters I had were in the first house that I purchased and lived in. They guy sublet my house to other guys and they destroyed it. It took about $5000 to get it back to normal and when I saw the damage I felt personally abused. My dad reminded me that it was part of the game, so I quickly got over it.
3. If you have an LLC, move the properties under it and take advantage of the tax breaks. If you don’t have one, create one.
January 29th, 2010 at 12:32 pm
@#75 - That list has served me well. I totally agree on no emotional attachment. I treat my houses just the same, they are a vehicle for my money to grow. Having a manager makes this a cake walk most of the time, if he knows what he’s doing. Also, insurance and protection is also a priority. That is why I have a LLC, insurance, and about to look into an umbrella policy just to give it that extra razor sharp edge.
February 5th, 2010 at 8:14 pm
I’m a below-average Joe. How can I get one of them thar rental properties?
February 24th, 2010 at 5:08 am
The government just suspended the 90 day flipping rule. As such, it is the ripe time to buy an REO home that is for sale. We have many on our site and see the rise of this activity at http://www.gohoming.com.