What can I do if my girlfriend isn’t serious about money?
In the Get Rich Slowly forums, DannyBoy has a question that I think many people face: “What can I do if my girlfriend isn’t serious about money?” He writes:
I’m the sort of person who essentially looks into every area of his life to save, start investing, and be smart about money as much as possible. Do you think that somebody like myself, who cares so much about where his money goes, can be happy with a girlfriend who doesn’t? Everything else between us is cool, fun, etc, But I don’t want the money issue to turn me off her.
We’re both young: I’m 19 and she’s 23. She says she doesn’t want to save for retirement because we could all die in a second, therefore it’s a waste of time and money to save if the worst should come around. I don’t really agree with this. I mean, chances are most of us will make it to retirement. (Unfortunately, some won’t.) How do you think I should handle the situation?
Should I talk to her again about how I feel towards this? Should I let it bother me? I’m into her, and I want to remain to be into her, but I don’t want something so simple as saving to get in the way of what could be. Should I grow out of it, get out of it, or just accept it?
It’s relationship questions like this that make money so complicated. What do you do when you’re in love with somebody, but you don’t see eye-to-eye on money? (Or any other issue, for that matter.)
The standard reply to a situation like DannyBoy’s is that this relationship probably won’t work in the long-term. If both partners are not on the same page financially, there’s trouble in the future.
On the other hand, Kris and I are proof that it’s possible to have a fantastic relationship despite initial differences. When we were married, Kris did all the right things with money. I did all the wrong things. (This is one of the reasons we maintained separate finances.) Eventually, I came around. Not everybody does.
Obviously, DannyBoy and his girlfriend are young yet. Is it too early for him to worry about money differences? Should he worry about them at all? Is there anything he can (or should) do to open his girlfriend’s eyes?
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There are 88 comments to "What can I do if my girlfriend isn’t serious about money?".
Let her do as she pleases as long as your finances are separate.
Honestly, what are the chances of a relationship when you’re 19 progressing any further?
Chances are these two will be broken up in a year and this guys worries about this financial situation will be moot.
My wife and I attended the MMI seminar in 2006 and we are now both on the same page when it comes to money. It took some time but we have been better off financially this year than we have any other year. We started using the JARS Money Management System over 18 months ago and it has done wonders for us.
Another problem is when your lover expects gifts all the time.
Our consumer culture has us on a rotation of expected gift giving events. Peer pressure purchasing.
I’m not a materialistic person so I have always had trouble with someone who expects to be showered with nice gifts.
I try to focus on toughtful gifts more than shiny gifts. If that isn’t good enough for someone, then that someone isn’t good enough for me.
I say let it lie for now but if the relationship gets serious (as in he’s thinking about proposing) then he definitely needs to revisit the topic. Money is one of, if not the, top cause of marital strife. It does no (financial) good to be a saver when you’re married to a spender because their bad habits will only counteract your good ones.
I disagree. If he plans for the worst with his girlfriend then the worst will quite likely happen. He’ll be no different than her not planning for retirement because she’s scared the end will come any second.
That being said I’ve been with the same person since I was 13, I’m 22. We’ve been in a relationship for 9 years. So it’s quite possible they could be together for a long time, depending on the type of people they are.
I was irresponsible with our finances up until six months ago. Once I saw how much it really bothered my fiancee I did a complete 180. Why? Because I care about her.
He’s really still quite young, though. My advice is to keep his finances separate and just be himself. If the relationship goes super long term she cares about him. And if she cares about him, she will at least make an effort to compromise or change. Personalities typically rub off anyway, she might pick up some good habits just being around him.
He needs to pay attention to this now. He doesn’t necessarly need to DO anything about it yet, but pay attention in order to keep a clear head in case the relationship does progress.
I was in a relationship from the ages of 18-23 with someone who couldn’t manage his money, and at times it was terrifying. When we began talking marriage, I finally confessed that I could not consider marrying him because of his lack of money management skills. I was afraid (legitimately, I think) that if we got married and I got pregnant and had to quit working, he would not be able to provide shelter and food for us. Our relationship ended a few months later, and he is still unable to manage money or keep a job. I am so thankful that I paid attention to my fears, because money would have been a HUGE issue in a marriage. I will never again date someone whose money values I can’t live with (they don’t have to match mine exactly, but we need to have roughly the same goals and attitudes towards spending, saving, and retirement).
Yes, it can work out. My Hubby and I are proof. 9 years and 4 kids later, we still don’t always see eye to eye in terms of money, but we always make it work.
That is part of a real relationship, if you truly love someone, you will become partners and learn how to compromise and make your finances work for you.
I used to be a spendaholic, and never saved any money when I was a newlywed. My Hubby convinced me to max out my 401k and it was the best thing I did to start my finances on a wiser path.
You have to learn to listen to each other and try to understand both sides of the coin before you jump to decisions. There will almost always be a solution that you both can agree to.
Take Care
LJ
First, when your girlfriend argues that it could all end any second, you need to acknowledge that she’s right. Because she is.
If you acknowledge this, I think she’d have a hard time denying that it’s a good idea to prepare for the future just in case you get there.
Remember, she’s just 19. It’s hard to blame her for tuning out talk of “retirement,” which no doubt conjures images of the gray old men on the TV commercials.
Maybe if you frame it more in terms of how much future buying power you could have, or how many fewer years of your life you might have to spend working, her ears would perk up. 🙂
It can work. I was in much the same situation with my girlfriend when we started out, she would spend every cent she earned usually several days or even a week before she could expect another paycheque. I just tried to lead by example and as things got more serious we had some discussions, at first she resisted heavily but she slowly caught on and now she creates a written budget and saves from every paycheque. That said, she’s still not particularily INTERESTED in money management and I handle the bill paying and give her investment advice but she realizes that she does need to think about this sort of thing and that’s really enough.
I was like that myself up until about 23yo when I realized that money is, you know, kind of important.
Like J.D. and his wife, my wife and I didn’t see eye-to-eye on money when we got married, but we’ve met each other in the middle and made it work for 10 years. My wife became more frugal, and I became less of a tightwad (her words, not mine!). I think all relationships require some compromise by both parties. If we were all perfectly compatible relationships wouldn’t be much fun.
Nineteen is too young for a man to marry. And if he’s having doubts now, while love’s still blind at the garden gate, he’d be best advised to put the brakes on this relationship.
Unless she’s in the habit of drinking or doing dope and driving, her philosophy that there’s no point in planning for tomorrow because tomorrow may not come suggests she’s not the brightest light in the proverbial marquee. And if her point of view is realistic because she’s self-destructive, then she’s not marrying material. Our hero will have to take over all the money management and see to it that his wife never gets her hands on a credit card; otherwise, she will torpedo any efforts he makes to save money and live frugally. How very early twentieth-century…
Trust me about this, DannyBoy. When talk turns to marriage with this one, find the door, open it, and run out through it!
DannyBoy — I’m almost 36 years old, and one thing I can understand now is the cyclic nature of things, the fact that things take time. I mean, you guys are *kids*, your girlfriend is *young.* Try to use that understanding to your advantage. If I look back at myself at 19 years of age, it feels as if I’m looking at somebody else’s life. Your girlfriend will probably “shape up” w/ money in a very natural way, in a very natural progression given time. In other words, she’ll probably start to worry about this stuff on her own given enough time. Just be patient w/ her. Keep talking about this stuff, maybe even give her a copy of The Total Money Makeover by Dave Ramsey, so it’s not like all this advice is just coming from you.
My boyfriend and I are around the same ages (I’m 25, he’s 21) I’m very interested in finances and have a pretty aggressive debt-reduction and retirement savings plan. He gets his tax refund and sees Playstation 3 dancing in front of him.
Over time, simply by talking about my interest in finance and sharing my successes with him, he’s started to come around. The other day he actually complained about how going out to dinner is a financial waste! Then he asked me to help him come up with a plan to lower his interest rates on his credit cards (totally possible with a phone call, by the way) and pay them off.
We’re all capable of change and sometimes just by modeling good behavior, your partner will notice the benefits and want that for themselves.
Good luck!
Control is the key here. You’ll notice for people above who say “it can work”, someone takes CONTROL of the finances and the other person relinquishes it. That way you can still have different views on money, but the actions taken are controlled by one person in the couple. If you’re fighting tooth and nail on what ACTIONS to take with the money, you’ll be miserable and a marriage will not be successful.
For example, my husband does not see the point of saving for retirement. He thinks he will NOT live to retirement age (still not sure why this is, I think he just doesn’t want to think about it). Money burns a hole in his pocket and he does not see the point of saving. He will spend everything he has.
But when he comes home with money he hands it to me. I hand back an occasional $20-50 and he happily spends it on things. He doesn’t care if he has $1000 or $100 or $10 in his pocket, as long as he can spend it all without input. He has a retirement account of about $5000 and doesn’t know it – in fact he has expressly asked I NOT TELL HIM how much is there. We have a binder with detailed financial information in case I die. And he is at peace with having retirement savings because he figures if he does die before retirement, I can have it and will inherit it. The downside is that if I pass away he will suddenly have a windfall and have to manage his own finances, but I advise him to talk to a financial planner if this ever happens.
It sounds funny like he is a pet or something, but he recognizes that he will spend us into the ground if he controls money the way he wants to.
Some differences are okay, but drastic differences – like this guy seems to have – are far more difficult. I just watched my BIL go through a divorce over this issue, and he could have written the same letter back when they were dating. His wife just got worse and worse and worse and drove them further and further into debt. He got extra jobs, was very thrifty, and so forth, but now he has a divorce and half of her debt to show for all that effort.
My husband and I weren’t exactly on the same page, but we had much more similar values to begin with and as our approaches to money have changed with time and circumstances, they’ve come to be much more similar.
I think this guy has way to drastic of a different approach from his girlfriend – it ain’t gonna work in the end, so better to call it off now than later. He can find someone with similar qualities – fun, great to be around, etc. – but who shares his values and he will ultimately be a lot happier.
Money is a huge issue in a long term relationship. I’ve been told it’s one of the leading causes of divorce – although I can’t point you to any real statistics to back that up. Even at 19, he should be aware of the problems that can arise if you’re not on the same page, financially.
You know what? I have to say it again: Get Rich Slowly commenters are the best I have ever seen. I’m always amazed at the level of thought you folks put into what you write. I appreciate it. Thank you.
People can change! When I was her age I had $7,000 in credit cards, $20,000 in student loans, had the same feelings about retirement as she currently does and came from a family that always lived hand-to-mouth. My boyfriend at the time (now husband) was great with money and really inspired me with his financial behaviors and I started reading about personal finance and got myself educated. We now live debt-free, frugally and I’m usually the one who takes the initiative to review our budget, get the best deals on things, cut out expenses, etc. You might just inspire her through her actions! Maturity tends to really open your eyes to reality as well. It definitely hit me hard when his parents retired comfortably in their early 60s and mine will never be done working. Here’s my best advice if you do stay together long-term: agree on your savings goals together, what each of you will contribute to saving for a house, retirement, etc., compromise, and as long as you’re meeting those goals, never monitor each other’s day-to-day purchases.
Thank you for this post, J.D. I’m 31 and my boyfriend is 39, and we’ve been dating for almost two years. I’m concerned because he has no money saved for retirement (his job doesn’t offer a 401K). He also has just a few thousand in savings and at least 5K in credit-card debt. For the past year or so I have been working harder and harder to eliminate my own CC debt. It’s difficult, though, because his view is, “People are always going to have a little debt.” I don’t see things that way, and it’s hard when he wants to go out to nice dinners, concerts, etc., and I’m trying to make do on less and eat “beans and rice, rice and beans,” as Dave Ramsey says.
Since the girlfriend seems to be focused on the risk of saving, maybe you could talk about the risk of not saving?
It would definitely suck to die before you spend your savings. But it would also definitely suck to get old, retire, then live in poverty because you never saved anything. The question is, which is more likely? Most people live until retirement age, so the latter is more likely!
Or you could talk about the middle ground. You don’t have to choose between living like a prince and living like a miser. Even a small amount of saving can make a big difference when you’re very young.
I’d just like to say kudoes to a guy who is 19 and is already paying attention to his finances, and thinking about how things will work with his girlfriend having different financial values! I think that alone is a sign that whatever happens, he’ll be able to work it out one way or another.
When I was DannyBoy’s age, I dated a girl with very similar values. She was extremely fun to be around, go to parties with, etc. Boy am I glad I didn’t stay with her! I went to my HS reunion to find that she’s still the exact same way many years later…no money, lives with 20 cats…still fun, but a bit scary.
My wife and I have always been penny-pinchers, and I can’t imagine being in a relationship where money could be a huge issue. My advice is to have fun for now, keep an eye on your money, but be careful long-term. Best of luck in the future DannyBoy…sounds like you’ve got a great financial philosophy and will do quite well.
This is a hard question. Half the anecdotes here will demonstrate people can change. And half the anecdotes here say people often get worse. (Experienced the 2nd myself.)
So DannyBoy, sounds like a trip to Vegas. 50/50 odds whether it’ll work out for you. 🙂
I agree with what the pps said. While there are the rare cases where people marry someone they met at 14, I’d say more of us are really glad we are no longer in contact with anyone we dated before the age of 24!
19 and 23 are indeed very young ages — most folks at that age can’t picture the next 10 years, much less the next 45. I think most people start thinking about savings more when some parts of their lives settle down a bit — career, job, friends, marriage, house, kids, etc.
I totally agree that if you have a long-term relationship that combines your finances, you and she have to work out a system for handling money that works for both of you. Step one is to figure out if you want to make a future together (if you don’t want the same kind of future, that’s a “No”). Step two is figuring out what kind of money management is going to get you there — your way, her way, or a combination of the two. Good luck!
As a pastor I have done hundreds of hours of counseling with married couples and / or premarital counseling over the last 15 years. The 2 biggest reasons I have seen for marriage trouble revolve around money and sex. You don’t have to be on the exact same page, but you certainly need to be in at least the same chapter to maintain a relationship that is not constantly in conflict.
Hey.
Another thing to remember is balance. Financial planning is not all about long term pain for even longer term gain. It is about balancing what you need right now with what you need for the future. If you’re living in a cardboard box, showering once a year and eating rice every meal, perhaps you’re being a little bit too austere. On the other hand, if you live life with no plan, you’re going to find that your finances go down the tubes pretty fast.
You don’t need to win her 100% to your way of thinking. It is a relationship, figure out some compromises. We can argue about who’s way of thinking is “right” but ultimately if you stick to your guns and don’t find a place that the both of you can inhabit comfortably, you’re going to wind up living their alone.
Like: we can do That, if first we do this. Yes, let’s go down to Hawaii, but we’re not going to do it on credit. So, first we need to save for it. So, you’re still living a good life, but not on credit.
Yes, work on bringing her around. Don’t hammer her over the head, but do little things to help her understand. As she grows up, you’ll find, as has been said before, she’ll probably naturally grow into this way of thinking.
I think the key here is to recognize the differences and respect that you two have come from different places.
However, I also think there has to be an effort made by both parties to work out the problem together and come up with a plan together. Then, implement it. As one’s life improves the other will benefit.
Over a short-to-medium period of time if one doesn’t “rub off” on the other for a positive, then the answer is lying in front of you.
I think the problem is that even though they are both young, they are on totally different wavelengths. Marriage is enough work without worrying about constantly battling over money. Dump her. Cut your losses now.
My wife and I got married when we were 21 and have progressively been working on our finances. I have to say we’ve both been on a similar page since the beginning. When I was 19 I had an unfortunate crush on someone who was destructive with most areas of her life. No savings, always partying, ‘could die tomorrow’ attitude. I can tell you right now I’m glad I never pursued it the relationship.
Since that time I’ve seen incredible growth in my family. I’ve owned a company from 19, got married at 21, bought a house at 22, had our first child at 23 and have been fine tuning our finances all along. It makes a world of a difference when you’re on the same page. You’re not always going to agree on everything but if you’re down to earth and she’s fatalistic then run away like your life depended on it. Good looks aren’t worth anything if they’re expecting to die tomorrow.
Learn from the experience in all the ways you can. We know eventually, if you don’t watch your money, you’ll find yourself in situations where you will wish you did. When that time comes for her, you’ll be there to help her out and show her how to do better.
i recently got married and my now husband wasn’t always so great with money. a couple of year ago he sold his 1973 BMW CSI and he had two car loans, paid one off but let the other one hang around and blew the rest of the money on “stuff” – he has changed SO MUCH since then though… we bought a home together last december and we have been aggressively working our way out of debt. I think sometimes, it can help for people who aren’t that great with finances to be coupled with someone who is a better money manager because it helps them to learn by example.
i think often making poor financial descisions at a young age (early twenties) is a result of immaturity and people can (sometimes) grow out of that.
i know that my husband regrets some of the decisions he made when he was younger – he used to have really cheap rent and a lot of disposeable income and now he looks back and wonders where all of that money went that he was working so hard for!
Counseling is the way to go. Find a good financial counselor and a good couples therapist! That’s what my spouse and I did. It’s really helpful to have experienced people providing objective guidance on such an emotionally charged issue.
Lisa
FYI, it is the 52nd Day Anniversary of my new Blog. I just needed to tell someone! Thank you , thank you. 🙂
All I can say is that choosing your spouse is probably the single most important financial decision you will ever make, period.
Bringing it up will most likely just cause her to be uncomfortable and feel threatened. Just let it go until marriage, then offer to take the burden off her and handle all the finances.
Wow, I wish I had been thinking like DannyBoy when I was 19! I can tell you that my life today would be lot different, with no need to try to play catch up. I was thinking more like the girlfriend in this scenario.
Lots of good advice about strking a balance and finding middle ground in the comments, and I agree. I would defintely take it into consideration before becoming more serious with her.
I used to be a serious spender/ money waster. Then I read Smart Women Finish Rich (David Bach) and my whole outlook changed. It made me passionate about my cashflow and I started reading whatever books I could get my hands on to learn about how to fix the problem. Now I have no credit card debt, I have an emergency fund, I’m on a snowball to quickly pay off my (huge) student loan, and I have a substantial start on retirement savings. I recommended to my fiance that he read Smart Couples Finish Rich, and now we’re both on the same page. For some reason, seeing the reality in print was enough to snap me out of my destructive spending habits. Maybe that would have a positive effect on this couple as well.
Seperate. Bank. Accounts.
Do not let her anywhere near your money. Do not put her as a beneficiary, do not cosign anything for her.
I am speaking from painful, horrifying experience. As in next week I will finally be done paying off the bills my girlfriend rang up on ‘our’ credit card in 2002. Including our engagement rings.
I was going to say the same thing as Mary Sue. And then I read her words.
Don’t cosign, don’t do any credit, don’t ruin your future for her present.
Credit is easy to get when you’re young, and very difficult to rebuild if you make poor choices.
This is a huge issue. The differences you have in how each of you look at the future reflect a significant difference in your values.
This isn’t something you should ignore. If you proceed, I would do it with much caution… and protect yourself.
Change the terminology. Put it to your significant other this way: a dollar is a unit of choice. Being rich is a combination of the things you are able to do and the person you are able to be – not the the stuff you have. It costs money for Spanish lessons or your kid’s education fund. Everyone knows that but for some reason do not think they are choosing new pumps or a superman comic over private school or being fluent in Spanish. Try to change their outlook to “if I save I get to do or be X!” rather than “if I save I’m just denying myself Y.”
From my experience Its all about wether you can accept her money issues or not. She may change them, she may not. You have to be ok with it either way. My fiance spends a lot of extra money and I’ve tried to get her to slow down. She does well for a while but always slips back. I’m decided I’m ok with it. I will just have to be extra good with my money, which I am ok with. You have to decided if the positives out weigh the negatives.
First off, you’re 19? You shouldn’t have a girlfriend. Especially one who is 3 years older than you.
Since that is beside the point, lets talk about the issue of finances. You girlfriend is irresponsible. Since she does not care about her future, and assumes she is going to die tomorrow, this is definitely not her only problem. She almost certainly does not pay her bills on time, carries a large credit card debt, is a terrible driver, is generally selfish, etc, etc etc. At some point in your relationship, probably most days, in some way or another, she will look to you to save her.
Now the good news. As she gets older, after you throw her out (remember you’re only 19), and she is on her own for a while, she might mature a bit. Eventually she will grow up, and will realize the importance of a stable financial state. She will be influenced by someone who has the patience to teach her. My wife used to be like her. She had an $80k dollar job coming out of school, invested in her 401k (probably unknowingly). She spent money hand over fist (80k was a lot of money in the late 90’s), and when she left that job to travel and bum around, she spent the cashed out 401k check she received… After we met in her late 20’s, and I taught her a few things, she now understands, and I can say she has the desire to be secure…
This isn’t even really about DannyBoy’s girlfriend, but about Danny himself. We’ve all jumped onto the ‘financial prudence is good’ bandwagon, but really, in the interests of self-development, Danny should give himself a little leeway to experience life before getting quite so stuck into planning for a retirement which is probably around 50 years off.
He sounds like a sensible chap, so isn’t likely to end up mired in debt, but to hold back on life experiences (he’s wondering about dropping someone he may love- what other pleasures he’s forgoing I hate to think) is just, well, wrong!
First of all, congratulations to you DannyBoy, for being such an enlightened and obviously intelligent young man. I’m impressed with the maturity you’ve displayed with this question.
I have to agree with the readers who encouraged you to keep your finances seperate and continue living responsibly. As a wife to a husband who does not respect money- I can atest to the strain it can have on a relationship– but you’re still dating, and marriage is a whole other can of worms. Am I right?
I think that you should enjoy your relationship on the level it’s at now– there is no need to worry about this until your relationship reaches the stage when you’re considering marriage. And that point, write again, and take a long hard look at what kind of person you want to spend your life with.
Best,
Dannyboy,
I would recommend that both you and your wife read “Smart Couples Finish Rich” by David Bach. It’s a great book that could possibly change your girlfriend’s views.
Danny,
As others have mentioned it’s great that you are thinking about these things at a young age. It means time is on your side and that makes a huge difference. That being said, you should first look at your self- are you saving too much and enjoying life too little?
I would suggest that you both try to find a happy compromise. If neither of you are willing to do that it spells trouble for your future togeather! She values living well in the present while you value living well in the future. Both are important so this is a great area to try for a compromise.
First communicate to her that you value her opinion and want to understand her perspective. Listen to her reasons why she doesn’t think she will live to retirement. Use active listening- after she tells you something try to paraphrase it and repeat it back to her. Once you understand her position and she knows that you have listened to her. Ask her to listen to your reasoning and why you value saving for retirement.
You may want to show her the magic of compounding for 45 years from a calculator like http://www.moneychimp.com/calculator/compound_interest_calculator.htm.
Suggest that she try setting aside a small % amount automatically say 5% for a few months toward retirement- either a 401K through work or a Roth IRA with an automatic monthly deposit. I suspect she would NOT notice a 5% change in income. If she doesn’t feel a 5% pinch after a few months suggest boosting it up to 10%. If she starts at age 19 and consistently saves 10% it should insure her future.
Your part of the bargain is that you have to be OK with her spending all of the rest of her $ for whatever she wants. You could also offer to cut down on the amount you are investing perhaps 5% and put that money into an account used for fun things.
Getting into consumer debt shouldn’t be an option, but once you have taken care of a reasonable amount of savings you should both be free to enjoy the rest without worry.
Good Luck!
-Rick Francis
Danny…run…run while u can…and please, please don’t try to “rescue” her from financial difficulties…nuff said.
i didn’t read all the comments, but Courtney I’s story is very much like mine.
my husband was big spender/big debt-holder prior to the time we merged our finances. he ended up not wanting anything to do with the money, because he saw how well we lived on what we had when i managed our accounts. all our money went into the accounts and i took it from there. he was happy to get a few bucks a week to play with, and to not have to worry about it. i do discuss with him things that i think are important- and he will listen to me and understand what i’m doing and why. but i could make all the decisions with or without his input and he wouldn’t care either way.
he has also cut out a lot of expensive bad habits, and i have lightened up a little. and every time commercials talk about financing deals on tv, he always gripes about how much it really costs you in the end. i’m rubbing off on him slowly 🙂
not all relationships can work this way though. there is a lot of trust that goes on in a relationship that works like this. over the years, we had a lot of time and many trying life experiences that built an incredible amount of trust and love.
It all depends on her adaptability. Some people rub off from each other. This was evident with my girlfriend. She is a frugal person and I was not. Everytime we would dine out, she was conscious about the prices unlike me. Its been about a year and I value and respect what she has taught me, but then again, I’m the type of person that loves to learn and have an open mind. “Dannyboy”, you have to perform a personality-assessment and see if there is a spark of possible change. Keep in mind, some people will not change. None of us in this blog can tell you what to do since we do not know your gf.
Honestly, if she’s 23 and hasn’t learned that saving (at least) some of her money is important, then she’s not mature enough to handle yours.
You have to understand, our world today is one of the first to deal with women having a pronounced impact in the working world. Women no longer need that much support from men. Women are as independent as men and they can be just as successful, if not more so. Our parents and grandparents didn’t really grow up with this experience. If the new woman of today cannot manage her funds well, then there’s a problem. And, she most likely has a ‘Paris Hilton’ mentality towards money.
I’m harsh, but if she’s not willing to listen and learn your value on money, it won’t work. Money issues are the biggest reasons for divorce …and divorce just causes even MORE money problems. You’ll find that someone special who’s willing to listen, and even teach you a thing or two.
To directly answer Dannyboy’s question.
“Do you think that somebody like myself, who cares so much about where his money goes, can be happy with a girlfriend who doesn’t?”
NO.
Looks like the key question to ask is this: is DannyBoy’s girlfriend open to changing her mindset about handling money? If she is even the tiniest bit willing to try out something different, then there’s hope.
Just wanted to chime in here. Don’t give up on teaching her about saving but take the cue to learn more about what she wants from life.
She has a point about not knowing what is around the corner, but lets take this one step further. It could be that she likes the excuse and uses it because it is convenient, after all, 20s are a great time to have fun and assume less responsibility. It could also be that she really buys into the excuse and will take you down a bumpy road before she thinks about the future and hitching hers to yours.
Talk to her about what she daydreams about and her to-do list. Perhaps you can point out that wanting to travel the world takes money. Everything takes money, even if you’re not going Dutch. How would she do that if her funding sources (like Bank-of-Parents/current job) suddenly vanished? They won’t be there for her retirement or maybe even tomorrow. Her own money is the most certain thing. A long life isn’t “the worst”.
You’re friends, right? So wanting to teach a friend how to save and plan for the future is a great thing. Even without the possible partnership aspect, look at it as a way to improve a close friend’s life.
I think DannyBoy is a little more mature financially speaking than his girlfriend is at this point and it should be a dealbreaker for their relationship if they can talk it out and come to a consensus. She’s right, there’s no insurance we’ll all make it to retirement age but statistically most of us will. We’re staying alive longer than ever (not counting Methuselah) and we’ve got to figure out how we’re going to pay for it. We can’t rely on Uncle Sam so that leads back to us. We need be responsible for ourselves.
I think their views on money are so far off that the chances of it working out are slim. For those who say it can work…consider how different your situation is from this couple – that can determine whether or not it works. If she thinks there’s no purpose to save for retirement, I say, run for the door. Let someone else support her in retirement…shoot, with her way of thinking, it’s going to be the Tax Payers of America.
With this being said, I agree with most other posters…odds are, due to their age, they won’t be together for ever. Yes, it works for some, but not for the majority.
I am in the exact same boat as comment #14 from Courtney. I run the whole financial side of my wife and my life. I give her money for ALL of her needs and make sure she has some money that has no strings attached to spend how she wants. Just like Courtney it doesn’t matter much to my wife how much it is just that she has freedom to spend without regret (these days it is $50 bi-weekly). She love the fact that one day we will be “rich” and that $50 could turn into $500 or $5000 because I’m managing the money well, but she just does not have the drive to do it herself.
For your situation, just keep your finances separate and do what makes you happy. Don’t make it a constant topic of discussion, but be open about how you use (or SAVE) your money. Let he see how the balance grows over time and talk about the activities and luxuries that can be made possible later in life by being smart with money now. It is very likely some of it will rub off as you two are together. She will see how saving hasn’t made you “miss out on life.”
If it does come time when you want to get married then you should probably get a prenuptial agreement in place and have a serious talk about how the money will be handled. Certainly take those steps before buying a house together and wait a couple years after that before starting a family. There should be no reason you can’t strike a balance in your lives that works for both of you.
The term “girlfriend” reveals two important facts: first, that they’re not married, and second, that he has not proposed marriage.
If you’re dating, and you enjoy each other’s company, who cares about philosophical differences.
But in terms of marriage (ie, a legal contract under which one person’s poor financial choices can adversely affect the other) he should absolutely not even consider marrying anyone who does not see eye-to-eye with him on this topic.
Dating is supposed to be the process by which we find the person with whom we are compatible for something more. He’s dating. She’s apparently not compatible.
DannyBoy’s real issue here is that she’s *close*, and rather than keep looking for someone that fits, he’s growing attached to someone that does not and trying to shoe-horn her into the role.
Man up, DannyBoy. You’ve got a long life ahead of you. Keep it casual with this girl, and keep looking for the right one.
This doesn’t sound like a financial problem so much as a maturity problem–she wants to be young and crazy and not care about tomorrow, he wants to be sensible and plan stuff. Since she’s older than he is… well, she might grow out of it, but I don’t think it’s usually a good thing to bet on… I’ve seen very bad things come out of those gambles.
Sorry if someone covered this already, way too many comments to read at work.
This immediately made me think of the global warming video I just saw that uses a grid to make decisions. The columns would be “Save” “Don’t Save” and rows would be “Die Young” “Live to be old”. Then write in each of the four boxes the results, you can’t control the rows, but you can control the columns. Pick the column that avoids the worst possible combination. Which I would think would be living to be old and not saving, but maybe not, I guess it depends on the person’s priorities and what they consider “worst”.
Also, he could use this method for deciding what to do if she doesn’t see eye to eye with him. The columns would be stay and go, and the rows would be she changes and she doesn’t.
There are very many retired people who struggle to make ends meet because they failed to plan. Or people who end up in state subsidized homes because they can’t afford medical care. Maybe opening her eyes to how difficult it is to be on a fixed income later in life will change her feelings.
Tell her that saving $5000/yr for the next 10 years will be worth $115,000/yr in income for 25 years in retirement. That just might do it.
I’m not a materialistic person so I have always had trouble with someone who expects to be showered with nice gifts.
I am sorry, but I really have a problem with this comment. Nowhere in the post does the author (or boyfriend) indicate that the girlfriend is materialistic and expects to be showered with gifts. This is a truly negative stereotype about women and one that is portrayed in credit card commercials, “news” articles, etc. Just because someone is irresponsible with their own finances does *not* mean they are golddiggers or materialistic!
That said (sorry…it was really bothering me b/c I see similar stuff on other finance sites I read), I think it’s wonderful that this man is thinking about things so early on.
I am now 29 and believe you me, just out of college, I was extremely irresponsible. Not massive CC debt or not making ends meet or anything, but just didn’t save like I wish I had b/c my expenses were a lot lower!
I think that communication is key. People can and do change their ways of thinking about such matters, and you are *both* young. A lot of people your age and your girlfriend’s age don’t come around to a more responsible way of thinking for a few years time (and some NEVER DO!)
My best advice would be: don’t nag her about it. Don’t pressure her. Try to find some blogs by younger people about finances who may currently be in or have been in the same sort of situation. Send those to her every now and again. I think it’s probably a bit early on for couples therapy or whatever, but it is something to consider if you’re planning on marriage.
DO NOT enter into any sort of financial commitment with her, though. Do not get an apartment together. Do not get a joint account. Don’t buy a car together. If those are things you both would want to do, make it abundantly clear that you won’t until she begins budgeting and sticking to it, and allocates money to paying off consumer debt and to saving. Don’t try to force her into it – baby steps are fine! Even if you are panicking and thinking “you aren’t saving enough!” you are both young and let her take it a step at a time. First, work on eliminating any debt in conjuction with accruing a modest savings. If she can do that, she will eventually come around to retirement savings, too.
Good luck!
When people say to me “Why should I save when I might not even make it to retirement. What if I’m hit by a bus…”
I then ask “What if you DO make it to retirement?”
I think people would be able to think more clearly about retirement if we didn’t call it “retirement”, as if it’s some product you consume when you reach a certain age. Instead of “saving for retirement”, we could say “saving for the future.”
Retirement is simply financial freedom, or being able to live without having to work, either because you can’t work or because you don’t want to.
I think that may be one thing that is obstructing her from thinking reasonably about her future. It may be indicative of other immature traits, or maybe just a radical world view, but I wouldn’t want to speculate too much without knowing her. The relationship may work, but maybe not.
Oh, although they are young, it’s not too early to think about their perspectives on money. If I thought someone was my soul mate I wouldn’t reject her because she doesn’t follow a frugal lifestyle, but it’s one thing I would definitely consider at the beginning of a relationship.
Also, it’s best not to get too attached, only to have to deal with big problems (money, politics, religion) later on.
The best thing he can do is be an example. I grew up with terrible examples of money management from my parents; my husband grew up with excellent ones. For many reasons I’m grateful he’s in my life, and one of the big ones is that I have skills I never thought possible in that area.
That said, it’s also possible that the two of them are in different life stages that make it difficult to see eye to eye on these matters.
Dan, do this.
Put her out of your mind for a while and go some place quiet without distractions.
Think about the kind of woman you would like as your future wife and mother of your children. Write down every quality that comes to mind that you would like your future wife to have – values, personality, experiences, mindset, etc.
Then ask yourself, does your current girlfriend fit this picture?
“Another problem is when your lover expects gifts all the time.”
This is a much bigger problem, I think. There are a number of ways to work around different philosophies about money, the simplest being to keep your finances separate.
There’s not much you can do except end the relationship if you’re frugal and she expects expensive, non-utilitarian presents on major holidays. She’ll feel you don’t care about her if you don’t spend enough, and you’ll feel you’re squandering money if you do. There is no win-win scenario.
I had a friend who broke up with her boyfriend because he refused to buy her a diamond for their one-year anniversary. He was a janitor and she worked at a hotel, so this was far from a trivial request. And furthermore, she had no intention of spending a similar amount on him. I just had to shake my head when she was telling me.
Wow. I never understand why people think they will die before retirement. I actually think the exact opposite. While I agree you could get hit by a bus one day, my family history has very long life spans. And medical science is improving every day. My great grandmother lived from 1899-2003. That’s 104 years old. When she was born in 1899 people lived to be something like 40 maybe even 50. She lived twice that. So if anything I’m worried what if I live for 200 hundred years? Or if they can download your brain in a robot and live forever. That’s why my retirement plan is to save enough to live off the interest. My wife is with me, but I think she’s a little doubtful of the live to 200 thing.
if she isn’t serious about money and jokes about retirement, have the ‘ol boy take a look at the girl’s indebtedness as far as non-student loan debt. how much she owes on credit and how she spends will tell volumes about what kind of a person she is with her finances. ‘ol girl probably burns through money AND spends credit faster than ‘ol Georgie Bush dealt away our national surplus like it was a game of monopoly!
I can relate to the girlfriend 100% because her attitude was my attitude. Her attitude has been my attitude for the past two decades and, while I do have something to show for it, my credit score is shot due to constant late LATE payments and a laissez faire attitude. I have no savings and my partner has no savings because I have spent all the money. I am finally getting with the program because I am about to lose everything, so Dannyboy can take a look at me and ask himself if he has the guts to stick it out for the long haul in this relationship? As in, decades.
“Tell her that saving $5000/yr for the next 10 years will be worth $115,000/yr in income for 25 years in retirement. That just might do it.”
Are you serious? How do you figure that? What investment vehicles would you be using?
“She says she doesn’t want to save for retirement because we could all die in a second, therefore it’s a waste of time and money to save if the worst should come around.”
That is a lousy attitude to have. If that’s the case, why do anything? Why cross the street? You could be hit by a car. Why practice any sport/skill? You could die tomorrow and that time would be wasted.
What you need to do, is have her read a book like the Automatic Millionaire that shows what saving and compound interest can do.
My guess is that she still has some growing up to do, and when she feels more mature, she will start paying attention to this stuff. My opinion is to not bother her about it or it might make it worse. Proceed with business as usual on the guy’s side, and perhaps she’ll see some positives and start thinking more about her future.
It takes people a while. I did not start thinking about things like retirement until this year, now that I actually have money, and I’m 26. My little sister is just about 22, dropped out of college, and only just now is mature enough to land a decent job where she can support herself.
Good luck.
I am in a similar situation, but ultimately you need to find the balance. The worse thing you can do is nag or talk over and over about her spending habits.
I like to used examples like credit card debt with my gf. I tell her the interest you pay is probably close to about 2-3 weeks working for someone else. That is a one or two of nice jeans or shoes that you giving away every year. And she picks up on these things. After 2 years, her credit card debt is nearly gone and now she is saving,she may not be investing but least she is not creating debt.
My girl is changing to be more money conscious but still she have her splurges but she is changing. Patience, cant happen overnight, all about nurturing and influencing.
Norm
Communication is the key. If couples don’t talk about what the expect from each other, they are doomed.
This sounds trivially obvious but it’s actually deep and dangerous territory. Our spending habits are hugely linked to parental example. What else is? A relationship, and how we interact with our partners.
It’s for this reason I think that money worries and relationship worries so often intersect (okay, and because not having money isn’t much fun!).
What should DannyBoy do? Talk – and listen. Don’t expect changes for a good while, and don’t preach.
Run Forest Run oh I mean DannyBoy.
I have to say I’m in the same boat, though a bit older. It’s sad (and perhaps a bit offensive) to say, but my girlfriend is from a different ‘class’ than me, and in her much harder life than mine, she’s had to struggle with bad relationships and with little hope for the future. As such, she’s a bit older than me, and has no money. No savings, no 401k, and limited education because she didn’t see the point.
I, on the other hand, came from safe middle class family and have operated since birth under the positive guise that we can better ourselves if we try hard and get a proper education, and it’s mostly come true.
My hope, and I’d like to think it will work out, is that she will gain hope for the future with me and see the value in savings and education. The things that make me feel this way are that (in no particular order)
1. she has no money, but she doesn’t have negative money, so that’s good.
2. i can be a positive and safe influence in her life
3. I can help her fill out loan apps to get her more education, which will lead to a better job.
4. she doesn’t engage in dangerous activites that i’ll have to get her to drop (ie no drug use, no hobbies that when caught involve jail time, etc)
5. I love her very much, so i think she’s worth the effort.
6. she is gainfully employed and spends every cent she makes (mostly on things she doesn’t need), but mostly lives within her means.
So with all these factors combined, i think it’s a fair bet. if any of those factors weren’t working out in my favor, then maybe i’d reconsider. would it be easier (and fiscally advantageous) for me to marry within my class? Yes, but we don’t really get to choose who we are attracted to, do we?!
Anyways and back to the point, i’d say build out your list of the reasons you can help your SO with their less than fiscally sound ways, and then do your best to help them.
Wow! This is a tough subject. But
it’s one that shouldn’t be
overlooked.
You should keep your finances
separate but, this doesn’t prevent
trouble from happening. Odds are
she’ll get herself into financial
trouble and talk you into bailing
her out of it. So, you still
loose.
To help prevent that, you need to
make sure she never knows how much
you make or how much you have
saved. NEVER. At least not until
she changes her attitude toward
finances.
Kick her ass to the curb.
I don’t like to give advice based on my personal experiences, as we all have different situations, but they are what they are.
When I was 19 I also had a 23 year old GF. We had completely different beliefs on just about everything. It went a lot further than differing future time orientations. We were really together for other reasons, and I’ll let you imagine what those were.
However, at the time I really thought we would get married and things would work out. At some point I never saw any other possibility.
In retrospect I should have known things would not end well. Perhaps now I am a bit cynical and I cannot imagine ANY young relationship with such disagreements endup working out. I hate to say it, but these situations are usually doomed to the “starter relationship” pile.
FWIW I am now married. I disagree with my wife about some of the same things. But I guess there is just an understanding and a level of maturity and responsibility at this stage where we are able to deal with differences and not really have it affect us. It has probably helped that I have grown to be a better listener and more open minded.
It might be too early to worry about these things ( I would also say Dude, dont get married until you are at least 50..okay maybe 25)and things might just work out naturally. It might become an issue or might not. In the meantime keep separate finances and I guess come to an understanding and decide whether to accept your differences.
I would be extremely careful if I were you.
On the one hand people are saying something that sounds quite reasonable, but is in real life almost impossible to do : keep your finances separate. I’ve never seen this work when the male made more money, only when the female did. Look around – women are very pragmatic and almost always marry up. Men are programmed to treat women as equals except when it comes to money. So while I’m sure people mean well when they say this, I seriously doubt you will be able to do it. But I could be wrong. IF you can keep your finances separate then I’d agree that you can see where the relationship will go. She might be lots of fun and a good complement for you, you two might even find yourselves moving closer to one another’s viewpoint.
IF that doesn’t happen, and if you guys decide you want to get married, I would DEFINITELY go to marriage enounter counseling (whatever they call it) where you meet with someone who asks you questions about tough real issues and how you both will handle them when, not if, they come up. I’ve seen cases where people come away from the counseling completely sure they had found ‘the one’ to marry, and cases where people were extremely relieved knowing that they had just narrowly avoided making the biggest mistake of their life.
You are right to be concerned about this issue, good for you for recognizing it and looking for more information. If you keep following your gut and don’t compromise what you truly believe in I think you’ll do fine.
Best,
Mike
I agree with those that point out that she probably doesn’t want to think about retirement because it seems so far off, like something to deal with later.
As their relationship matures, and their life plans are discussed, their are other issues that will come up long before retirement:
Whether or not she beleives that she will live long enough to retire in 40 to 50 years, I’d bet she expects to have children in the less far off future, within 10 years or so, and she may hope to stay home with them for some period of time. This is, in essence, a mini-retirement. Savings in hand will make it more pleasant, and can make up for the earnings hole of those few years. Having saved beforehand means you can buy a large enough house and vehicle beforehand, means you can choose what nifty items you want, rather than be subject to the whims and preferences of family gifts and hand me downs*. Means you can NOT WORK for 1, 2, 5 years.
And, following that realization should be the one that, if she has children and does not live to retirement age, would she want savings and investments for the childrens sake?
*hopefully, by the time the issue is pertinent, she will have learned to appreciate the savings to be found in the whims of family gifts and hand me downs. But cross that bridge later!
My fiance and I are both 23, and although neither of us is TERRIBLE at managing money, we have very different ideas of what to spend it on. He buys the cheapest groceries and most expensive technology, and I’d rather have quality wine with our meals and no flat-screen tv. It would not have been appropriate to argue about it while we were just dating, but now that we’re committed to each other it’s important. So this is what we’ve decided:
We’re going to have separate accounts plus a joint account. A certain percentage of each of our salaries goes automatically into the joint account for shared expenses (we’ll have to make a budget to work out what percentage), and another percentage goes into joint savings for a house deposit, retirement, emergencies or kids’ education. The remaining disposable income stays in our separate accounts, and we can choose to spend it on whatever we like or save it separately. That way I can’t complain if what he’s spending is not my money, and vice-versa (it works because we’re both graduating as professionals and will make a similar amount of money, but if one spouse makes significantly more than the other a different compromise might be needed). We may have to re-think in the (distant! distant!) future when I’m on maternity leave. I guess while he’s earning all the money he’ll have more say in how the disposable portion gets spent.
I don’t think it’s necessary or appropriate to argue about money while you’re just dating, but if you’re thinking of committing to one another you will need to reach consensus. With as differing views as yours, I’d recommend getting a marriage or money counsellor to act as a mediator. But until that time, all you can do is scold, and all she can do is try to loosen you up a bit.
I feel for you, Danny Boy.
I’m in the same situation… except I’m 26 and she’s 23, and we live together. Every week I get lectured about how we’re not having as much fun as we could be, and we’ve never been to India, and there’s no time to travel if you have a 9 to 5 job. I’ve been leaving newspapers and magazines around the house open on stories about economic recession, job loss, misery indexes, inflation– to see if they will act as subliminal messages, and impact her psyche. I try talking about it. She thinks I’m paranoid, or old. I also get the “what if we die tomorrow” answer.
#85, pasta a fagioli,
I’d figure out a vacation you _are_ willing to go on, however large or small that is – when you are entirely honest with yourself, then ask her to plan the trip in its entirety – including all of the budgeting. When she has all the planning completed, review it, and only after you’ve approved it – tell her you’ll be happy to go when he has half the money for the trip which she has just budgeted.
If she grumbles I’d either go to counseling or leave her. These kinds of problems only get worse, it’s probably the biggest cause for divorce, and you’ve probably noticed that there is absolutely no way you can win this argument. If you’re too lacking in vision, imagination, or aren’t adventurous enough for her maybe she’d be happier with more of a vagabond free-spirit type.
If you’re really attached to her you might consider reading ‘The Four Hour Workweek’ and seeing if you can work while you travel. Not many people can, but it might be an option for you.
Good Luck Bro!
I like Mike@86’s suggestion, about her planning, budgeting, and SAVING half the money for a vacation together. That’s a creative, painless introduction into a different way of thinking.
I think it’s very possible for her to change, especially with someone as sensible as you to work with, DannyBoy. It is painfully true that some people just don’t change. I’m sorry to say that Hydes Like Us and I had similar stories and similar problems, and that, in the end, it was a large part of what cost my husband our marriage. I married very young; I’d met him when I was a teenager and married when I was just out of my teens. The kicker is that he’s about twenty years OLDER than I am, and NOT a money manager, not a saver. I was a kid who didn’t know much – scratch that, I didn’t know ANYTHING – doing the best I could, with a husband who wanted toys, and changed his mind weekly about the toys he wanted most. I broke my 401K three times to get us out of debt, and after years of working hard, currently have NOTHING to show for it. He, on the other hand, was spiteful about the house I gave him – yes, the house that I gave him, bought and paid for without a penny of his – and he was bitchy because the house … needed some work. It was good enough to live in when I was paying for everything, but apparently I should have given him a better house. (I was well-trained at that point to think I was responsible for taking care of him, which is why I gave him the house. And the car. Which I was still paying off at the time.) He wasn’t interested in saving for the future; he had a wife who was 20 years younger than he was, who has taking care of him, and by the time I was ready to retire, he’d probably be dead, so why should he worry about whether there was anything for ME to retire on?
So it depends on the underlying causes prompting DannyBoy’s girlfriend’s attitude. Is she selfish and indifferent? Or is she afraid of growing old, and is that what she associates with “retirement”? I know I’d be in a better position today if my partner had been more like DannyBoy. If he can convince her that what’s being saved for is their FREEDOM together, rather than a doddering old age, she may look at it in an entirely different light. If she can see the value of being able to spend their time as they want in their 40s onward because of wise choices made now, there’s considerable hope for their relationship. If she’s otherwise irresponsible – late payments, bad credit, irresponsible driving, etc., as posted above (reflecting the “we could die TOMORROW!” attitude) – the relationship is better as a friendship, nothing more — and NO shared debts!
After 46 years of marriage and four children with someone like this, I have finally filed for divorce.
I know I am most likely older than anybody writing here, so I think I can safely say that I know where I am coming from. I’d give the person a chance and a certain amount of time to get their act together. If they can’t, forget them. Do it before you have a bunch of kids to support and raise.
Believe me, it gets harder, not better, as far as I can see, 90% of the time. In case you don’t know, your best efforts at birth control can fail abysmally.
Do what I did, say, “You’re better at some things, I’m better at others”, so since your always helping me _________, I’m willing to help you, so WE can build our future together:)
It really works, you learn, she will learn, you will see if she is serious about you and the relainship???
You have to ask yourself do I want the other person to change? If so, than how are you really able to love that person for who they are instead of what you want them to be. I was in the same situation with a two year relationship. I love him dearly, but he is happy working a part time job, living simply, not going into debt and not saving. I would rather work two jobs and save for the future. I know that because I want him to change and save for the future I am trying to change him. But changing him would make him a different person. I had to end it. It is hard, trust me. But I know after the heart heals my future self will thank me.