Is your spouse hiding debt? Recovering from financial infidelity
Infidelity is always devastating. But if your spouse or partner has been cheating on you by hiding pricey vices or illicit spending sprees, the consequences can be far worse than an affair, for the simple reason that money — often large sums of money — are involved.
As one reader wrote to us, after a similar article ran on on DailyWorth:
My ex took out a credit card in my name and ran up $40,000 debt without my knowledge. Now I’m paying it off. I asked the credit card company to investigate the matter as fraud, but they didn’t. It doesn’t seem like I have many rights. As I found out, there were many secrets behind the numbers. Right now, I’m waiting for the divorce to come through.
Although incidents of identity theft and fraud are well-documented — and can be prosecuted — spouses who are the victims of their lying, cheating partners often have little recourse. As another woman wrote:
I just checked my credit report, and found out that my husband ran up $18,000 on one of our cards — when I thought we only owed $400. I confronted him, and he admitted it, but now what? He doesn’t have the money to pay it back.
To recover from financial infidelity, you need a two-pronged strategy. You need to shore up the non-financial side of your relationship and, at the same time, tackle the actual money mess.
The Mess
The first step is to find out where the money went and how much is owed, says credit expert Erica Sandberg, a columnist for Creditcards.com. Your credit report contains a list of all open accounts; ask your mate to show you all statements. In addition, your mate may have accounts opened in his or her name. These would show up only on their credit report, so ask them to come clean.
As you examine the statements, what you discover may be shocking. Your spouse wasn’t just deceiving you about debt; it’s likely that he or she was hiding habits (perhaps even vices) that cost a pretty penny.
To clean up the mess, you’ve got two main tasks:
- Your mate’s secret spending has to stop (and the habit itself addressed).
- The debt has to be repaid.
So, the second step is to make a debt repayment plan. While you may not feel that the debt is your problem, until it’s cleared up (or you split up, if that’s the case) it will affect you. First, have your mate sell any purchases they bought when they were cheating, and put that money toward the debt. Insist that they get a part-time job or work overtime.
Next, depending on the extent of what’s owed, credit counseling may be in order. (Two reliable sources for credit counseling are the National Foundation for Credit Counseling and the Association of Independent Consumer Credit Counseling Agencies.) At worst, you may need to consider bankruptcy.
Otherwise, create a budget, reduce spending, apply all excess funds to the debt, and stop charging until the balance is at zero!
The Marriage
As you address the financial problems, talk. Your partner’s financial infidelity is a red flag that you two are out of sync — and not just about money. Make time for regular discussions about the life you have and the life you want. As the great Russian writer and philosopher Leo Tolstoy once wrote, “What counts in making a happy marriage is not so much how compatible you are, but how you deal with incompatibility.”
Piggymojo is a new saving site, where couples can set a goal (in this case to save enough to pay down your debt), and find new ways to talk about money.
You may also want to seek professional help. Few relationships can survive this kind of strain without counseling. If you’re both invested in staying together, then it’s worth spending some money on a therapist who can help you, especially if gambling or other addiction issues are involved.
Lastly, if your spouse has committed financial infidelity, you may need to take a long hard look at your own money habits and head-in-the-sand behavior. As one reader described her sister’s loss of nearly $120,000 thanks to her husband’s secret gambling problem:
The moral is, you can’t afford to become a passenger in your own finances. Looking back, my sister said there were so many warning signs. But because her husband said he was taking care of the bills and expenses — and she believed him — she didn’t know what was really going on until it was too late.
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There are 53 comments to "Is your spouse hiding debt? Recovering from financial infidelity".
I agree! We all know when somethings going awry. If she works at walmart, but shes coming home with Prada shoes and your savings account balance HASN’T changed? Shes smoking that credit crack.
its all about communication. if there isnt any in your finances, then there most likely isnt any in your marriage. If there is trust in the marriage, any problems should pop up way before thosuands of $ of debt have accumulated.
The wakeup moment for my Mom, when going through separating/divorcing, was when her lawyer told her to check with the mortgage company to see if the mortgage was being paid as promised. It was but that was when she finally realized to take her financial matters into her own hands…
I thought I was pretty financially savvy – then my spouse opened a credit card without my knowledge and paid it with money orders. I only found out when I got his credit report. We are divorcing now but what I am finding is that even if a judge orders that certain debts are his responsibility in the divorce decree, if he does not pay the bills I may still be liable. Forget blood tests, make couples examine each other’s bank accounts before they can get married.
My mother has no idea that my father has over $120,000 in credit card + home equity debt… I don’t know that she wants to know – she has been a stay at home mom her whole like – and dad was a crazy spender. They will have nothing in retirement – but they also don’t talk about this and what they might do to change it. Really sad to watch. Because of this my wife and I talk almost daily about money to ensure bills are paid and that we are moving towards reaching our financial goals.
I have always been a strong believer in “you fool me once, shame on you; you fool me again, shame on me.” People get fooled early on in the game. It’s only when they stick with it do they really get hurt. Let go early and quick, especially if they could care less if you worked till the day you died paying their bills. I agree that this is a form of infidelity that easily turns spouses and partnerships into relationships of a spender and a cash machine. So would it really impact the spender if the cash machine told them to get another job, work overtime, or just stop taking out loans and overspending? The only reason why one partner was able to go overboard is because the other person let them. The reasons may vary on why whether it be the guilt trip with kids, not wanting to fight, etc., but they acted as an enabler. The advice in this column is too “therapist.” Give some real advice on how to unconnect or turn around your finances with someone out-of-control, because this is not just marriages, but mothers, fathers, sisters, etc. At the end of the day, you need to protect yourself and your assets from debt and bankruptcy. Get a trust in place!
Nate, don’t mean to pry, but what happens when/if your parents have health issues and can’t afford extra help at home, or a retirement home or other community? Won’t this fall to you? If so, you might have a legitimate reason to get a little more involved with their finances.
I am thinking about this a lot lately because my parents are divorced any my Mom has very little saved. My brother and I have decided to open up a joint account where we will be making small automatic payments each month. This will be there to help with Mom’s care later on, or (if not needed) to be used for trips or other splurges she might enjoy.
Cely,
I have thought a lot about that over the last 2 years. My 3 sisters and I have been trying to talk to my father for several years now about his overspending – he won’t listen. Honestly we haven’t many plans. One plan we have made was to purchase long term care policies for both of them the second they turn 60 (the odds get nasty after than point). Other than that – we will provide shelter and food if they need it (we have rental properties) – but we are not going to bankrupt our families finances with major healthcare costs. I understand what you are doing but small monthly payments for 10-20 years won’t even cover 2 days in the hospital without insurance.
Sad situation…
I have experienced this. However, my husband could not hide the bills since I was in charge of paying. He WOULD hide the purchases though, and I never knew how bad it would be until the bill came each month. And it was always bad. Now we are going to divorce and he has taken yet another CC in his name only and has the bill sent to his office. I see that he pays each month online from out joint checking, a round dollar amount which I assume is “minimum payment” (because that is his way) but I don’t know what or how much he is charging. He is still using the one I can see as well, also in his name only, but I have cancelled all the joint accounts.
I HATE that we are on different pages financially, it contributed so much to the breakdown of our relationship.
“The moral is, you can’t afford to become a passenger in your own finances.”
So true! I’ve seen this devastation first hand with a loved one who was over 70 at the time. His wife passed away suddenly and only then did he learn how much hidden debt she had. He has always been hard working and frugal but she was addicted to giving way beyond her means ( despite working hard all her life even into her 70’s).
He lost his wife, his home, most of his savings.
She was hit by a car, so at least he got some money from insurance to live on eventually.
I’m still amazes me that he managed to survive that big of a loss and betrayal at that age.
“The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for it.” Thoreau
My mother drummed this into me from an early age. She called it “sexually transmitted debt” and it was the main safe sex talk we got at home 🙂
Dad ran his own business as a computer programmer, he loved the actual work but sucked at the book keeping, billing etc aspects so we lurched between dire poverty and momentary riches whenever he got paid. We could go from being unable to scrape a spare dollar together for school supplies one day and receiving a cheque for $150K the next (all of which was always spoken for so it was only a short thrill). I was pathetically grateful when the country went into recession in the early 90s because at least then we weren’t the only broke people I knew.
Two mortgages on the house, a car repossessed, gifts like the nice parkas dad got for my brother and I that we joked were gifts from Amex (paid off eventually but I dread to think what those cost, I think my grandchildren should wear them to get our money’s worth). I went to private school but we were so broke that after a growth spurt I didn’t have any clothes besides my school uniform and some scruffy things barely suitable for hanging around the house. It was crazy. My parents divorced in the end. Dad now has a regular salaried job, thank god, but none of us has any money. I’ve never been in a situation where shared finances with a partner has come up, and even though I’m bad enough with money, I’m scared to pair up with someone worse! I find it so hard to get out of the ‘spend it while you have it’ cycle. I read GRS regularly for therapy 🙂
Hi all,
Really interesting thread.
My parents split amicably with my mom saving and my father spending. He died broke. My mom will have a comfortable road ahead.
Both of them gave me the same advice: always have separate accounts. Of course, this is much easier to do when without kids. As they would say, the relationship should not be based on the wealth of the other. So far, I have not had to worry about this… yet.
is there anyway to prevent a spouse running up credit cards you would be responsible for? I have to admit in this day and age, my biggest fear of marriage is that they will not end up to be the person I thought they would be and I will end up with financial troubles as well as marital… (No I’m not in a relationship now so its not a matter of not trusting a particular guy, just hearing too many horror stories) Get credit reports and go over them with each other before getting married, I get that, but is there any way to actually keep one’s finances separate while married? (I mean obviously you can have separate accounts, but that doesn’t keep you from being responsible for any crazy over the top debt they might rack up, nor does it keep them from taking property that was yours – I know in at least some states if you inherit property, it automatically becomes your spouse’s as well even if it was left only to you) I understand why anything that would keep this from happening could be exploited, but it really just doesn’t seem fair (and truthfully it rather scares a lot of us off relationships and marriage because of it)
5-6 years ago I ended a relationship with my girlfriend of 5 years as we were both stuck in dead-end jobs and while I was willing to complete some postgraduate study to improve our odds, she was happy with her lot (working in a shop).
This would have been fine but for the fact that she earned close to minimum wage, lived beyond her means and *frequently* lied about the status of her debts.
It was the difference in life goals that led to the split, but the fact that we’d had 3-4 years of arguments, lies and constant worries about money due to her inability to face up to reality didn’t help things.
Pleased to report that I’m now in a happy relationship where financial honesty is the norm, not a pipe dream 🙂
If one or both members of a couple can regularly lie about their finances, they can lie about other things, too. Honesty in all things!
It’s not the relationship you want to protect yourself from, but the creditors. each state is different on what property they view as exempt from creditors when you put assets into a trust. That is why I recommended looking into trusts. A much more extreme, but potentially option is to transfer ownership to another family member to protect assets if you and your partner should have to file bankruptcy. I think retirement plans and whole life policies are pretty much untouchable anywhere you go. Whatever you do, don’t pay a penny if it’s in the thousands of dollars. You’d pay it, get bitter and resentful, and wind up breaking up anyways. Know the laws, put all your income into accounts that are protected and make yourself “broke.”
I am convinced that THE single most important financial decision anyone will make is who they decide to marry. A bad choice can damage you for years to come in every way imaginable.
My ex husband was a financial infidele, with hidden credit card debt and years of failing to pay or even file taxes. He kept this hidden from me (I signed prepared tax returns, he secretly did not submit them), until one day I came home early from work and in the mail I found a notice of lein on our home from the IRS. I discovered that of our 7 yrs of marraige, he’d only filed taxes for 3, and hadn’t paid a nickel towards any. Things only got worse as his bank account got repeatedly cleaned out by the IRS and we had difficulty paying bills. We debated and bickered and argued endlessly to no avail, he refused to communicate with the IRS or try to resolve the issue. He was dooming us financially, and I could take no more.
Only because of the kindness & generosity of his mother was I able to leave that marraige with a nickel in my pocket. Fortunately, I was able to file innocent spouse for several years of taxes and I actually got refunds. One year after our divorce, my credit rating was restored to excellent and I was able to buy my own home.
It was such a painful experience, but provided real incentive for me to educate myself on PF. I took classes, read all sorts of books & articles, and got active about managing my money.
I cannot emphasize enough how important it is to understand that marraige isn’t just a romantic merger, it is a financial merger, a very serious business deal.
I agree with Saya — it seems completely unfair that people should have zero way of stopping this from happening, but 100% of the responsibility. Anyone know about this?
Also, #7 Cely, how responsible of you! What a thoughtful thing to do for your mum. It is too bad you have to be the parent in this situation.
I am 55 and have been single all my life by choice. This is rare for an Indian woman (rule #1: All Indians are married….). Lately Ive been thinking a relationship might be nice, but, after having struggled all my life with money and finally having established my finances on a decent foundation (GRS helps a lot!), I honestly dont think I ever could or will be married, finances being one issue I simply cannot now either share or consign to another. I agree with the posters who say that it is crucial to pick the right person…..but being old and cynical, I am much more aware that I could be hoodwinked and much less willing to let that happen. At the very least Id have a prenup and keep the bulk of my finances separate.
My brother in law-a lowlife if ever there was one- died in 2006, leaving my sister with kids and a mountain of debt: he had even signed their house away to a “friend” to finance a business that failed to bring in enough to pay the mortgage. Clever! It is now foreclosed and my sister is on the street-and she STILL says she loves and misses him! She is in complete denial.
Sorry but I think sharing finances is really dumb, even in a marriage, and agree with Saya on this, even more so if anything.
I disagree with Saya and Honeybee. I think it’s a GOOD thing that marriage binds two people together financially. It’s part of what makes it such a solemn and serious commitment. I think people have gotten the idea that marriage is just a fun little adventure you jump on with whomever happens to be near you, and when it stops being fun, you just sign a couple forms and walk away, free and clear.
I’m GLAD that marriage has consequences, and I’m GLAD that people are starting to realize that maybe they should take such a commitment a little more seriously.
How about another post on parents’ poor financial habits and how they rain down on the responsible child. And nine times out of ten, the one responsible child in the family is the one who the parents neglected to help ensure their future. I think it’s ridiculous. Some parents can be so selfish and not have any concern for their child’s future.
I know this sounds bad, but all I can say is, parents better cover their own asses because I will have my own children to worry about their future.
My parents would be so hesitant to invest a dime in me, how can they expect to fall on me in rough times?
How about the opposite? Keeping savings secret from your partner. My wife and I have different philosophies when it comes to money. I’m frugal, watch how I spend, and save aggressively (more than 60% of my salary) while still doing the things we like and having multiple vacations per year, etc, etc. My wife feels that if you work hard and make good money, you should spend accordingly and not worry so much about saving. I have accumulated a nice chunk (around 500K) but do not mention it. Wife thinks we have 100K in the bank. I’m saving the money so we can retire early and to give our children a good education and a decent life.
Is this as bad as the financial infidelity as it relates to debt?
I think what you are doing is great…I have been in so much trouble financially from the day I got married…my husband spent all his money for 20 years and then went bankrupt…since then I have cleaned up the mess and taken over the finances…I am a saver like you although I don’t have as much as you saved…but it is because of me that we didnt loose everything…I worked like crazy to pay things off…but this has taken a toll on my feelings for him…too much crisis and not enough peace in my life with him. I dont have any love feelings for him but I am concerned about the children so I don’t push for divorce..He doesnt want a divorce.
@Saya #12 – there is one way. Don’t get legally married. Get married in your church & do the paperwork you want (will, ownership agreements, etc.) and don’t go for the state-sanctioned agreement.
Of course, there are difficulties with that too.
The funny thing is, a lot of people think like Kevin – there ought to be no legal protections between married people. But what happens is that people who really believe in marriage and want to do it all-out forever get victimized. Sometimes, the debt-hider isn’t even trying to do anything bad – they just can’t control themselves or have bad judgement or bad luck. But the spouse suffers anyway.
I’m guilty of carrying debt that my husband doesn’t know about from time to time($100-$5000). I plan the budget, pay his card in full, but pay only a set amount each month on mine because it makes the budgeting/balancing easier. (fewer variables.) I don’t want to compromise our other goals of saving, so I live with it for now.
In our family, I was the one who did it. None of the purchases were hidden – it’s hard to hide a 2-week family trip, or a new car – but the source of the funds were. I was using our home equity to pay for dinners out, travel, home remodeling (with outrageous cost overruns), even vehicles, and not telling my wife that my salary wasn’t covering it. I insisted on handling our money, so I controlled the transparency of the records. Even now there are several tens of thousands of dollars which I can’t determine for what they were used.
What we coped with together was that I am a debt addict. The reasons for that came from my childhood. There was a big disconnect in my mind between buying things and taking responsibility for them.
We went into counseling together, Debtors Anonymous, many books, and she took over the handling of our finances. It took me several very rocky months to truly take responsibility for it. I am incredibly grateful that my spouse stuck with me through it. And incredibly lucky.
I have now had four “crisis points” in my life related to debt, and unless I stay on top of it I know it will happen again.
The bottom line? I believe that the mechanism behind hiding debt from a spouse or partner is rooted in debt addiction, and the problem will continue to surface until you dig out the roots, with or without your spouse.
Spouses – I hope what I wrote above helps you to understand the mechanism, though that isn’t necessarily going to help the sense of betrayal. Whether you can cope with that is up to you, but until they get to a place where they can take responsibility for what they have done (or are doing), you won’t get through to them. I hope that talking about this can help you work with your errant spouse rather than feeling opposed.
“Sorry but I think sharing finances is really dumb, even in a marriage.”
Whether you share finances or not, as many have discussed above, legally you are usually responsible for your spouse’s debt even if you had no part in incurring it. In that sense, it makes more sense to share finances and have everything be transparent. That way it is harder for one spouse to hide spending or credit problems. I think you could still have separate accounts if you like, but I would prefer to have access to those accounts – at least so I could view the balance and the payments. My husband and I share everything – credit cards, retirement accounts, etc. Of course, one of us could open an account without telling the other, but overall I’m pretty confident in our partnership. For either of us to deceive the other, we would need a P.O. box or have mail sent to work, because anything at the house gets opened by the other.
@JohnQ
I find what you are doing fascinating and I really can’t blame you. You are doing what you think is best not only for you but also for your wife and children. I don’t think that’s amalgamous to infidelity at all but rather a sign of your commitment.
Jane, the problem is that you can think you have complete transparency, but your spouse can have a whole other account that you would never know about, unless you check their credit report regularly. Which seems like a lack of trust issue – except that I’ve known several couples who shared everything…except the accounts he gave his work address to, so she wouldn’t know about them. There are people who hide assets because they’re preparing to abandon their families, and people who hide debts because they can’t control their impulses.
I had a boyfriend who I supported while he worked in a startup for no pay. My only stipulation before he started was that he make the other partners show him the cash flow statement and sign formal partnership statements. When he asked, they brushed him off, and he was more worried about them being mad than me, so he lied to me. He got scammed – and so did I, of those months I was supporting both of us and pinching pennies so he could follow a con man who offered him a fake version of his dream.
Still, it was minor for me, because we weren’t married – the other partner was married and his wife ended up owning half the debts from the business because, along with not keeping any sort of real books, of course it was all funded on private credit cards, not incorporated so the business owned the debt.
@JohnQ
My husband and I have separate accounts, and right now we don’t have savings because we are aggressively paying down debt, but he used to ask me to hide savings from him. When I have money in savings, I tend to spend LESS (for whatever reason), but he tends to spend MORE. So I tend to keep my savings amounts to myself.
@Kevin et al
The problem is that it can be very hard to admit to a frivolous purchase, even to someone you love and trust. A few years ago it got out of hand, and I ran up a couple thousand dollars on my Amex, so I gave it to him and told him I had been irresponsible. It was very hard to do, but I’m glad I did.
We continue to struggle with this, and always have; we aren’t very open personalities, and it’s hard to communicate. Early on in our marriage, my husband actually shoplifted something he couldn’t admit to me he wanted. He got caught and the penalties were 4x the amount of the item. A couple years ago I found out he had a secret credit card (he claimed he used it to buy me gifts, but I still asked for 3 years’ worth of statements, and proof that he kept a zero balance most of the time).
We have to consciously sit down and figure out our incoming/outgoing expenses every couple months and make sure we are on the same page. It’s hard and stressful and I hate it, but it has to happen. Doing this has saved our marriage, but trust me, it isn’t easy, and it’s hard to have to ask for “proof” in a marriage built on trust. It’s easy to point a finger, hard to do the work.
That being said, we both have separate investment accounts, savings accounts and retirement accounts. This isn’t a trust issue, it’s more of a legal issue; in some situations, the death of a spouse can mean the loss of pension or retirement if the account isn’t in your name. We are beneficiaries to each other, but keep our accounts separate so that I will always have something if anything happens to my spouse, and vice versa. I read a book about finance for women in my 20s, and it recommended this strategy, so hopefully it works. 😉
Oh, Rosa, I completely agree. If someone wants to hide something from you, they will find a way. I’m just saying that it makes it harder if you have a relationship in which it is okay to open each others’ mail and in which you have joint accounts.
Thanks Jane. I forgot to mention I also got life insurance of 1MM (in addition to the 250K provided by my employer) and didn’t tell wife either (she’s 75% beneficiary, and my parents the other 25%). My father and someone else close to me know about this and my hidden stash, and it’s all clearly delimited in my will.
I got the idea of being quiet about this 10 years ago when I saw the movie Sabrina and their driver was worth 2 million dollars and kept it a secret from everyone. I said I want to be that guy. I was 24.
At some point, I will tell my wife about all this; perhaps when she starts adopting a money lifestyle that closer resembles mine.
By the way, I’m not blind or oblivious to the fact that this (despite its good intentions) is a lie and that it reflects poor communication in my relationship.
Lastly, I used to believe in prenuptial agreements for people that come from wealthy families who must protect it (not for me). My thought on this was if my daughter inherits 3 or 4MM from me and then marries a donkey and divorces and has to give Mr. Donkey 2MM, that’s gonna hurt. Some cases I think they are necessary. Then I read something Dave Ramsey says “don’t get into a realtionship with someone who cares more about their money than they care about you”. Somehow I like this. Any thoughts on this?
@JohnQ: My 2 cents, take or leave.
I think choosing not to communicate with your spouse is setting yourself up for some serious relationship difficulties down the road. Open communication is the only way a marriage survives. In essence, you are telling us that you don’t trust her, when you really should be telling her that and working it out.
Best of luck
This post makes me feel very thankful for my spouse. We may have quibbles but I feel like we are on the same page.
My parents did not fare so well. My mother is conservative with money, but my father, whenever they saved any money in the bank, would play russian roulette on another business venture (without consulting her). Of all the money he made, he never saved any for retirement. They are divorced now, but neither has any money for retirement, my father from failed business ventures and my mother from being a homemaker most of her life with only a part time job in her retirement years. If only they worked as a team (for example my mom being in charge of a retirement account) they would have done so much better.
I run the finances in our household. I work while my wife is finishing school. One thing that was hard at first is that despite making a decent income, between the cost of living and my student loan payments, there’s a lot of money that goes out the door, and used to make my wife ask me, “if you make so much, why do you keep telling me we’re broke?”
Fair enough. So… one thing we started doing this month that I so far like a lot is using mint.com. I like the fact that it automatically updates when you log in, and I like the web-base because my wife can log in from home and I from work. That way she knows where I am spending “our” money 😉 (Sorry for the quotes… I’m still getting used to the notion that just because I go to work and earn it every day, that it isn’t really just “mine.”)
Beyond that, *we* (no quotes there!) have a rent budget, food budget, entertainment budget, yada yada yada, and it really is nice to have a centralized place to keep track of all of our spending with little effort. (I can put with the 24-48 hour lag in transaction updates at the expense of the effort of manually tracking all of the receipts.) That way, she knows what we’ve been spending, more or less up to the minute.
For me to hide money from her, I’d have to have a separate checking account and split some of my paycheck into it. But that’s not a perfect solution, because one peek at my pay stub would show two different deposits.
Oh, all that said, I/we are still learning the joint finances thing, and I think it’s working out pretty well.
Re: protecting yourself: I believe if you write and request each credit bureau to freeze your accounts, nobody, not even your spouse, can use your name to open a new credit line.
And married people, you have your spouse’s SSN, right? So pull the free credit report once a year at the same time you do yours. If they are the type who would consider that a betrayal of trust, you especially need to do this!
You can order copies of past tax returns as well, just to verify what (if anything) was paid. It’s not free, but only about $25 I think. If there’s any question of doubt … best to know.
Maybe “protection mechanisms” would be a good post topic!
@Jane – that makes total sense. I was responding as much to the “if you don’t share a checking account you’re not really married!” crowd as to anything else.
I have accumulated a nice chunk (around 500K) but do not mention it. Wife thinks we have 100K in the bank. I’m saving the money so we can retire early and to give our children a good education and a decent life.
JohnQ, I actually think that’s really cool. It sounds like you both still enjoy the things money buys (regular trips etc) and I’m assuming your wife doesn’t feel that life would be better if only you could afford X. From her perspective, when you tell her it’ll be like you’ve won the lotto.
I see it just like Maharani.
I know a guy spending all the money on his Wii, flatscreen TV and other electronic toys, telling his girlfriend that he won one of the above on ebay for 50 instead of buying new what he really did. He keeps things secret from her and has to borrow money from her for decent clothing to go to a job interview. He had fixed-term contracts the last couple of jobs, totaled his car and blames the evil world for his misery.
I know another 40something who had to borrow 250 from his dad to have his car fixed to be able to get to work – I don’t know what the heck he does with his regular income.
I know a couple that bought their electronic gadget of 220 bucks on monthly installments. I had to fight the intense urge to tell them, go take the money from your savings account. If it’s not in there yet, save a year to make sure it’s there in 12 months time.
(Please do not get into a discussion regarding “building my credit score”. If you have to finance 220 for a year, that tells the lender you do not have any funds, not even an emergency fund and YOU ARE EASY PREY for them. And, of course, getting a Wii after having an PS and a laptop does NOT count as an EMERGENCY in my eyes).
I financed two items in my life: A used car to get to work (and my mom lend me the money for 0% interest after I showed her how much my stocks were in the red, but that I had hopes they would do better in a year’s time which they did) and I financed my first home. I paid (including the down payment) 33% off in the first 3.5 years. According to some online calculators that is saving me 50 grand over the lifetime of the mortgage.
I doubt that I will be able to find a husband that lives up to my standards of financial responsibility. I guess we will have to keep outside of marriage to make sure he does not mess with my financial intentions. I want to retire before 60 and I want my home paid off before 50. I have not found any guy yet that shares these weird ideas of mine.
Just for the record – to Kevin – I agree that you have to deal with the consequences of marriage… (Its pretty hard to find anyone who takes marriage more seriously than I do really) – I have just seen too many people who thought they really knew the person – went through all the premarital counseling and all – and didn’t when it came down to some of these things like finances. Scares the daylights out of me.
Re: getting married in the church and instead of a legal/civil marriage:
Truthfully I do not understand why the two have been coupled in our culture – I could care less whether the state considers someone married than whether God does… Unfortunately that opinion (even though based on what I believe are valid theological reasons) is not understood at all by almost anyone in my segment of Christianity. I can almost guarantee that if I ever had a religious marriage ceremony only, they would view me as “living in sin” and not the other person who went and eloped at the courthouse. (Personally if I ever didn’t want a big wedding I would be married at the minister’s home or in a very very small church ceremony – no court house for me because of it not being a specifically religious ceremony)
Like Nina sometimes I wonder whether it will ever happen or if it will be worth risking everything for…
This is one of the best discussions I have read on PF in a long time. Thank you everyone for sharing.
We struggle with this in our marriage. I am the saver, my husband the spender. He constantly buys things, doesn’t tell me, and lets me find out only because I monitor the checking account closely – which I do because he constantly uses the debit card. I don’t want to stop for gas and discover I have overdrawn our account – which one day has $300 and the next none because he went shopping. I have tried everything I can think of, short of divorce after 30+ years. I would really like to hear from someone who has overcome this. I love my husband, but feel like I can’t trust him at all 🙁
Hi,
I’m having similar issues. My husband had to go away for work, and were were all going to go as a family, until he said we can’t afford it. As much as I wanted to go, I knid of respected him for the decision, because we are not good with saving, and we need to start. I look after all of our finances, pay all the bills (he works, but we have a joint account), and sort out how we are going to pay for everything. I saved and gave him oney to go away with, and while he was away, I received a statement from a credit card that he had gotten without telling me, spending $2,000 while he was away, and even before.
He says he’s sorry and it won’t happen again, however if he’s lied once, he is capable of doing it again, and now on top of so many other debts, his credit card is another bill I have to pay!!
I am considering ending our marriage- it’s tough with kids, but I think I also need to teachthem the right way…
i am so confused on how to fix our problems… we have run up a chunk of debt. i have lost whatever little inheritance i have and we are living in my in-laws’ place which makes it even more hellish for me…
my husband seems to have a debt addiction… i was a co-dependent and did nothing for the first few years.. but it has snowballed into something unmanageable now
back then he was making most of the money while i made supplemental funds here and there while taking care of the kids…so he run the show and never consulted me. when things tipped over… voila i have to be part of the solution
i wish i could just go away and leave all these troubles in his lap but i am just starting to work again with very small income
i confronted him but the problem is he will not admit what happened to the money… i do not know whether the money i plowed went to the kids because he compromised his entire paycheck or went to debts as it is all mixed up now. i feel so alone… my friends and own family dont know how to help me. his family is in denial…am so tired already and very much deep in pain. any suggestions?
@: on the mend, did you come clean or was it forced upon you by people or circumstances?
Especially important:Make doubly sure you are aware of all mail that comes into your home. Case in point:a few years ago (prior to the real estate crash) the company I was with followed up on mortgage refinance inquiries. I called a potential client and she whispered to me that her husband did not know anything about her plans to refinance over $80K in credit card debt in addition to the $365K on their properties. Because the loan application process would be done by mail she would be forging her husband’s signature on the paperwork. I advised the senior loan officer assigned to the package and he promptly denied her. Needless to say, she probably continued her scheme because online loan refi inquiry services permit multiple quotes from competing mortgage bankers or brokers throughout the country.
I didn’t discover my husband’s lack of financial responsibility until after we married. After all these years, I still really feel stupid about it. He has been self-employed for the past seven years since, still getting help from his parents through the gaps. We are constantly repaying them and have nothing to show for ourselves. There have been also garnishments over the years. For a while I manned the books, but when he continued to neglect telling me about money spent, I couldn’t continue effectively and left it alone. Now he “does” it. I work part-time now, but that money barely helps either. I often think of leaving, but with the kids, I can’t stomach the thought. I’d been on my own for a number of years before we’d met, took care of myself quite well. I love him, but I sure do wish I had known how he spent money before we met. When it’s mentioned, he doesn’t see the problem and the arguments are at their worst when they arrive. He thinks looking for another job or business opportunity will help. I’m afraid I disagree and we’ll never see the light of day together financially unless he agrees to go into counseling about this.
I am deeply in payday loan/online installment loan debt that my husband does not know about. I am in crisis and do not know how to proceed. i cannot pay these debts and have closed my bank account ( i live in CA) and will probably lose everything once I am sued by these loan sharks. My question, I have a joint bank account with my husband but have not signed his name to any of these high interest loans. Is he responsible if I cannot pay? I am so sick over this. I need to divorce my husband and give him an opportunity to have a life that is debt free.
Three years ago I met with a bank official after it was suggested that there was document which my signature had been notarized on without me being present to sign. The bank official pulled documents from the vault and showed me only one which was the 1st mortgage on our home which I knew about and had signed. I also asked if my husbands business property were to go into default would our home be in any jeopardy and was there any connection between the two properties I.e. loans in common? The answer from the bank officer was “No, your house is not listed as collateral on any loans for your husband’s business”. Forward to December 2014, sheriff served foreclosure papers for my husband’s business which I accepted for him. Upon examination of the documents I found listed as collateral our home. I almost lost my mind. The next day I did more investigation through county registry of deeds on line and there was the document (mortgage using our house as collateral for his 200k loan). I asked about 3 years earlier! When I scrolled down to the signature I said out loud “that’s not my signature!” and it had been notarized by the banks senior loan officer! I got a printed copy of this and spoke with my husband, he stated the notary/bank officer witnessed him signing my name and notarized it. My husband is not a business person and trusted the bank but should have read the documents and not signed my name. The notary who is an employee of the bank should not have notarized it and committed fraud too. My problem is that my husband could go to jail, if I go forward with this information, he’s the main bread winner and I will loose the house cause I can’t afford it on my salary. I’ve spoken with several attorneys and can’t get an attorney to take my case due to the conflict of interest with this bank. The bank will take the house and I will be in debt alone and they get a way with defrauding me. No such thing as justice and its like I don’t exist.
I was the one hiding debt, but I wasn’t gambling or doing drugs or shopping. My husband pays high alimony and child support and we got behind when I lost my job due to an extreme illness. I didn’t do it to hurt anyone and I honestly thought I was protecting my spouse. I thought that I could catch us up but we just weren’t bringing in enough money. I did wrong by not asking for help and I know that. My question is how do I fix this? My husband kicked me out and wants a divorce. I have come up with a repayment plan but he won’t give me a chance to show him.
Looking in to bankruptcy but hoe do i separate my bills from his affecting me we also have a house were paying on
If your spouse is hiding debt, that means lying. Lying in small, means lying in big.
If there is no trust, what do you have? There always result in divorce.
You can’t fix trust, because people that lie, I’ve in lie. It’s all they know.
I hear what everyone is saying. I’ve been married for 33 years. From the moment we got married I handed my husband all the money I made. He would give me 40 a week. Then when the kids were born he gave 120.. That was 33 and 28 years ago. I never bought anything with out his approval. He got very controlling as the years when by. To the point that after we moved when the kids were 12 . I got an offer for one credit card. So I got it, for emergencies. But slowly, as he got tighter with money or his deeming of me , making me feel helpless , not working , he complained about everything I did. Nothing was good enough. I have always felt I was married to Dr. Jeckell and Mr. Hyde. As long as I never ask for more everything was ok. Well it got me into serious debt. To which when found that I had closed 50 in maxed out cards. He when crazy , and it took months of pleading for forgiveness. Finally he slowly got better about the cards. But he never allowed me to have more than one. Amex. Closed all the others. And started taking to shop, plus he told I had go to therapy. He continued to verbally abuse me, and like a switch he would be nice and gave me presents . But now about two years ago , I got a credit card. And he found out about it. And he says , get a job my money is my money. You will be homeless . And has called me every name in the book. He wants me to go therapy . And part of me feels like I purposely sabotage myself because I am so tired of being control. Feeling like I have to walk on eggs. Not just about money, the cooking , the cleaning nothing I do is ever right or perfect. Yet the outside people think his so nice. My kids know what he is like. And he has shown that irrational crazy to a few. So sometimes people get into debt for many reasons. I am not proud but maybe now I can be strong. He says the only job I will ever get is mopping floors. I am going to prove him wrong. I have a college degree he doesn’t. He has lost money lots more than I ever spend in the market or bad business investments.
I just found out that my wife and I (married for 26 years with 2 children) are $41,000 dollars in debt and most of it is credit card debt. On her own, and without me knowing anything about it, she researched consumer/debt counseling and found a non-profit consumer credit and debt counseling service. They worked up a contract with her (that can be broken with no penalty to us) and we will go into the program of debt consolidation that they will manage. We will now be paying $850/mo. for the next 4.5 years and we will then be out of debt.
I realize now that I hold A LOT of the blame for this because she managed our finances (as that is what she does in her profession and she is very good at it) and she told me for many years that we are “okay” even when I asked if I can sit down and help her with the bill paying, planning, etc. and she told me that, “she got this” because she had a spreadsheet set up and she knows what bills are due and when and that its all good.
Needless to say, it’s not even close to being “all good” as I find out now. I admit that I was too trusting and too enabling and I have already taken steps to never let this happen again.
When I signed the contract for the debt consolidation I then asked my wife for ALL of our account information, usernames, passwords, etc. and Ian going to take the next month or two and I will be looking at transactions with my wife to see what happened and to not make this mistake again. Here is the kicker…When we sat down last night I finally started to inquire about what she was thinking, she just said that she said that she thought that she could juggle it all and to catch up to make it work. When I asked her why she kept all of this from me, she said that she didn’t do it on purpose and she admitted that she messed up. When my feelings of dismay moved into feelings of hurt, I told her that I was confused as to why she hid this from me on purpose for so many years, she got VERY DEFENSIVE.and then told me that she was not good at confrontations with me. When I asked her for all of this info so we can check each bank statement, she got even more defensive and started ridiculing me by asking me if I was going to try to check up on her and try to catch something???
I am kicking myself in the ass for sticking my head in the sand and now I am paying a HUGE PRICE for neglecting my duties and like I said earlier, I am making major changes to rectify this.
Anyone have thoughts on this? I understand that she is defensive, but she is acting like she is also hiding something. What would you do NEXT?
Thank you all in advance for your time and comments,
Tom
Hi Tom,
I feel you pain!!! The exact same thing happened to me 18 months ago and just again last week. I was not told the truth the first time but forgave her and worked out a monthly payment plan to pay back the credit card company. In hindsight, I should have gone online and seen what my credit score was and how many credit cards were owed money.
I learned a valuable lesson in that her running up credit cards without you knowing about them also, effects your credit score. That is actually how I found out about the most recent cover up.
My soon to be ex-wife also, took the same position as what your going through currently. When all else fails turn it around to be the other persons fault and say I didn’t want you to know because I thought I could handle it. I wonder if she is mad at herself for what she did or is she mad because she got caught. There is a difference.
I wish you nothing but, the best and really hope you make it through this.
Financial infidelity is something that gets swept under the carpet more often than not! We hear in cases of celebrity break ups how one party to the relationship might declare bankruptcy before an impending divorce settlement. This also happens in normal relationships and can have devastating consequences.
My situation was similar but much more extreme. The loan officer at a bank notarized my forged signature to loan in 2009 using our home as collateral. I wasn’t there (notary watched my signature being forged) and I knew nothing about this loan’s existence until 2014 when it was in default. The bank convinced my spouse to take a debt consolidation loan to help manage his business expenses into one payment. His business was struggling, without the loan if his business failed he would have to sell his business property to pay off his debt. With this loan, he lost everything. The interest rate was 12.5% and severe penalties for late payments. I did go to the bank in 2010 when during an argument he said he had signed my name to a loan. The VP at the bank flatly denied that any loan exsisted which our home was used as collateral for his business. This was a lie of course. My husband’s deception cost me thousands in legal fees to keep my home and separate his debt from my name. Its horrible what the bank did to me, but fighting them with limited finances is impossible. They manage to always come out on top despite what law they break. The notary got away with her actions too, going after her could involve my spouse going to jail too. How then do I exist?