Should You Stop Funding Retirement to Focus on Debt? Print
Wednesday, 21st October 2009 (by Baker)This article is about Choices, Debt, Retirement
This article is by GRS staff writer Adam Baker. In addition to his work at Get Rich Slowly, Baker blogs over at Man Vs. Debt, where he compiles the most famous and inspiring quotes on debt. This article is a part of National Save for Retirement Week, and a sort of follow-up to yesterday’s post about the choice between retirement or a down payment.
Whether you should halt your retirement contributions in order to focus debt is one of the most heavily debated dilemmas in personal finance.
Unlike “spend less than you earn” or “track every penny you spend“, there’s no cookie-cutter answer to this question. Variables such as age, career, risk tolerance, and even personality type make each individual situation unique.
You’ll never win a race against high-interest debt
Regardless of your personal situation, there are very few circumstances where high-interest debt should not be the top priority. What’s high interest? Well, that’s another fun question to debate. For the purpose of this article, we’ll assume a broad range of anything in excess of 8-12%.
Once you start trying to race against debt with double-digit interest, you’re destined to fail. It’s risky at best and downright irresponsible at worst.
Let’s be honest. If you’re still relying on high-interest debt, 99% of the time it’s a result of not living within your means. There are rare exceptions, but for most of us (myself included), the issue boils down to spending less than we earn.
On Monday, J.D. wrote about the importance of paying yourself first. Like many, I love this advice. However, I’d like to challenge you with this: Only pay yourself first if you deserve it.
You could spend decades socking away 15% for retirement, but if you are living beyond your means, you’ll still lose. You’ll be tapping your 401(k) for a hardship loan. You’ll be upside down in a house with two mortgages and a HELOC. Even with the best intentions, this is a game that you need to get very, very lucky to win.
I don’t want to rely on luck. I don’t want to race high-interest debt.
For me, having positive cash flow with at least a minor emergency fund is a prerequisite to retirement investing. This proves I deserve to pay myself first. Otherwise, it’s my high-interest debt against my retirement contributions. Not a race I’d like to see.
Ready to rumble
So now where are we?
- Positive cash flow? Check.
- Short-term savings? Check.
- Only student loans and a mortgage…what now?
Now we’re ready to debate! At this point we’ve covered the basics. We’ve plugged the leak in the ship, but still have a bunch of nasty water to bail from the hull.
Once our remaining debt has interest rates in the single digits (setting an exact percentage isn’t the point), the situation becomes less cut-and-dried. There are two schools of thought on the issue.
- The first preaches that this is the perfect time to make retirement a priority. These folks point out that starting the contributions is the hardest step. They show that the earlier we adopt this as a habit, the better our situation is in the long run.
- The second school emphasizes the power of focusing on a single goal with all your energy and passion. They profess that intensity and commitment increase the probability that we ultimately succeed in tackling our financial goals. After all, once you eliminate your debt payments, you’ll have an enormous amount of your income to allocate to wealth generation.
I have to admit, I can see both sides. Like many debatable issues, most of us are going to end up somewhere in the middle. In the quest to find balance for our own situations, there are several common factors that are beneficial to explore.
The 401(k) match
Dave Ramsey suggests going so far as turning down an employer match on 401(k) contributions for a short amount of time (fewer than 18 months) to really focus on your debt. This is where many people draw the line. Actually, that’s putting it nicely. This drives some people absolutely bonkers.
Many exclaim, “But… but.. it’s free money!” That phrase tends to be thrown around a lot. I’m not a full supporter of either side, but I would like to point out that nothing is free, folks. So please stop saying “free money”! Pretty please?
There’s a real and tangible cost to allocating your money in any specific way. There are indirect opportunity costs. There’s the risk that diluting your intensity means you stay in debt longer and thus pay more interest.
Often the math does work in favor of taking an employee match, but that doesn’t make the money “free”. Some 401(k) plans have limited investment options. Or they have vestment periods that stretch out for years. If you aren’t planning to stay with your current employer this could dwindle the value of “free” even further.
Ultimately, there are several reasons someone may decide to opt out of a matching 401(k) program for a short time. Of course, the factors at play vary drastically from employer to employer. Before making a decision either way, it’s important to know as much as you can about your particular 401(k) options.
Other factors
There are a couple other situations where investing may make sense. Consider the following:
- First, you only have a specific limit per year that you can contribute to a Roth IRA. (This is currently $5,000 per year — $6,000 per year if you’re 50 or older.) Once you miss the window of availability, you’re out of luck. Your new contributions go toward the current year’s limit. You can’t go back and make up contributions you missed for the past two years once you are out of debt.
- Second, if you don’t have the discipline to actually apply any new money to accelerate your progress on debt, then don’t halt your retirement. Decreasing your contributions only to spend the difference at the local comic books store (or your vice of choice) may be the single dumbest financial move you can make.
There’s no single answer to this dilemma. In my own life, Courtney and I have chosen to not to invest while still in debt. We live a turbulent life right now, and enjoy the benefits that come with focusing on one financial goal at a time. We’ve also decided to allocate what limited funds we do have into investing in ourselves: training, education, and building a business (our current focus).
Your situation is different. The only thing I will push you to do is consider all your options. Don’t continue making a certain decision just because it’s what you’re doing right now.
Start from a blank slate. Could you benefit from a singular focus? Are you willing to make further lifestyle cuts to increase you current contributions? Examine your options and consider the choices.
How have you attacked this dillemma in your own life?

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October 21st, 2009 at 5:12 am
Even if the investment options are terrible, opting out of a 401(k) match makes no sense if you’re fully vested. There’s almost always a “safe” option like a money market fund, such that your return would be an immediate 100% (not counting the rate earned on the money market). I’ve never heard of a credit card charging 100% interest.
Even without a 100% match, it can still make sense to invest in an IRA or 401(k) prior to paying off debt if you qualify for the 20% or 50% Retirement Savings Contribution Credit–either of those returns (in addition to the return earned from the investments) are likely to be higher than a credit card interest rate.
Edit: The above assumes that we’re talking purely in terms of rates of return. If you find that you gain a real, valuable psychological benefit from paying off debt (or from investing), things could be different.
October 21st, 2009 at 5:26 am
Debt is a loan against your future income. I find the question of if you should stop saving for the future to pay off a loan against the future….rather absurd. What’s the point in saving for the future if you’ve already put your future on loan?
Being in debt is a shackle far too many willingly accept on their lives.
October 21st, 2009 at 5:27 am
If the starting point is, as you say, student loans and mortgage only, I really can’t see any reason not to contribute to retirement accounts. I contributed even when “racing” with high interest debt. Because I knew that human behavior would dictate ceasing those contributions would mean that I would waste the difference, rather than increasing my payments towards debt. It’s great if you have the discipline to apply the difference towards debt, but most people do not.
As JD wrote in his article, I think you should always pay yourself first. Doing this, you will “trick” yourself into never missing that money and budgeting the remainder in a manner to pay down debts and take care of other obligations. They key is to start young before you get your first pay check. If you never see the money, you never miss it. And you can budget for the rest of your life with that money going towards your retirement.
October 21st, 2009 at 5:32 am
It was simple for me. The return on my 401k match, up to a certain percentage, was 100%. I kept that much going even while I was paying off debt.
I didn’t invest at all otherwise, because it makes no sense to invest in asset classes which have historical returns of less than the interest rates I was paying. For goodness’ sake my rates were 9, 13, and 7%. If you told me there was an investment which returned 7% guaranteed no matter what, I’d be all over it!
October 21st, 2009 at 5:41 am
I very much agree with Tony (above) and J.D. My husband and I had $200 deposited bi-weekly directly into a credit union savings account; we never saw that money, so we never ‘missed’ it. Then when tax time or a vacation called, we always had the money to cover it, plus some left over for emergencies. However, we wanted to finally pay off our cc’s ($1300 balance), so we quit having the money taken from the paycheck. What happened? We went on a trip to FL!!!
Keep the money from landing into that MISC. category and avoid temptation. Have your employer draw it (pre-tax, if possible) directly from your pay and deposit it into your retirement accounts, and work with what’s left to cover your living expenses. Pretty soon, you’ll have adjusted your standard of living and have a sizeable nest egg!
October 21st, 2009 at 5:53 am
The choice is easy for me…. fund the 401K and retirement plans first, get obsessive about cutting expenses to bare bones, freeze all credits in a block of ice, invest as much of the saved expenses in reducing debt as possible, get a second and third job if necessary and use those earnings to reduce debt.
October 21st, 2009 at 5:54 am
If we can’t say “free money” with regards to employer matching, then you can’t say “hardship loan” when talking about 401(k)s. There are hardship withdrawal options, and you are able to take a loan from your 401(k), but there is technically no such thing as a “hardship loan”. Yes, I’m being picky, but as a person who works in the financial services industry, the term “hardship loan” drives me nuts.
October 21st, 2009 at 6:01 am
Here’s a question, is there a financial calculator out there that anyone knows of that will compare the two options from a long-term perspective? I know there are a lot of variables in the equation, but there must be someone out there who has worked out a fairly simple calculation by making some assumptions.
If I could find the optimum mix of paying down debt vs saving for retirement, it would likely motivate me to make some changes to my current strategy.
October 21st, 2009 at 6:09 am
Tim: There’s no need for a calculator. Just compare the (after-tax) rates of return offered by paying off debt (where the rate of return = interest rate) vs. investing.
If you don’t have those numbers, then a calculator wouldn’t work either.
October 21st, 2009 at 6:14 am
I’m on the debt snowball. One loan left, a student loan, which will be knock out (hopefully) in six more months. It took me a while after starting the snowball to stop my contributions, but once I did, my debt payments really started to make a difference. I’ve paid off five loans (four credit cards and a car) worth about $35k. My 401k is 60% vested (2 more years to full vest) and we have no match right now because of cashflow, so now I’m kind of ambivalent about re-starting my contributions once my debt is payed off. I might do a Roth IRA instead.
October 21st, 2009 at 6:14 am
#2 Colin says it well. A mortgage on your home is fine, don’t worry about eliminating it prior to saving for retirement. Even a simple interest car loan may not be a bad thing. Why give the banks 14-30% interest on the credit cards and earn 3% on your savings, or maybe 10% on a risky investment where you can lose your principal.
http://www.broadcastthoughts.net/2009/05/more-bad-financial-advice.html
October 21st, 2009 at 6:14 am
Yeah I’m not sure that turning down the match (as long as you’re vested or reasonably sure you will be) over paying down debt is better than paying down credit card debt, even at higher rates.
Given the typical contribute 6% (tax deferred) and 3% match, you’re getting a 50% return instantly AND paying less tax on your income (initally) that you would otherwise had to pay immediately if you weren’t putting it into your 401(k); so the effect is increased further.
Even at 29% interest on the credit cards, you’re still ahead. More so if you get 100% match instead of 50% from the employer.
Ideally however, you’d make the minimum payment needed to get the full match while paying as much as you can to the high interest debt, then increase your contributions after the high interest debt is gone.
If you have a lot of debt and it will take you years to pay off, then its even more important to save for retirement first.
October 21st, 2009 at 6:15 am
Overall, a good analysis. I would take great issue, however, with your statement that 99% of high interest debt comes from living beyond your means. Buying groceries, getting medical care, etc. etc. are necessities that many Americans (in Detroit, for example, there is a 29% unemployment rate!) end up having to charge.
Also, I think it would be helpful to talk more about specific interest rates. I’m all for paying student loans over 5%. But no matter how many times that Ramsey-Zealot claims I should pay off my 2.625% student loans, I can’t buy it. It’s essentially free money if you look at the stock market over the long term.
October 21st, 2009 at 6:24 am
This dilemma has haunted me recently. I am 25 and a half and have about 11,000 in a Roth Ira. I try to contribute 300 a month towards and am happy with where it is right now. However, I also have:
School Loan 1: 4900 @ 7.125%
School Loan 2: 4300 @ 5.625%
Car: 8850 @ 4.9%
All scheduled to be paid off by the time I am 30. But it just kills me to know that if I just take a year and put all my retirement allocation towards the highest interest debt I can be paid off by the time I am 28 or so. Every paycheck I go crazy thinking about it, but I am also torn because it is a great time to invest for retirement! AHHH
October 21st, 2009 at 6:34 am
I’m a 21 year old student getting ready to graduate who is already working full time. I started my Roth IRA about a year ago and currently have a 17k student loan at 5% interest. I have chosen to fund my Roth contributions for this year before the student loan. If you look at it, given a 5% rate of return until I am eligible to retire (39 years) gives me an additional $35,0000 as opposed to taking 1 year less of contributions (38 years) and instead paying down part of my debt. That’s double the value of my loan! With patience and reasonable investing practices this is not an unattainable rate of return on my IRA. Actually, its possible to completely blow that number out of the water with a little luck.
October 21st, 2009 at 6:35 am
My husband and I followed a 75/25 approach, where we paid down debt mainly, but invested enough to get a match. Now that we have no car or credit card debt, we have some more wiggle room. While paying my student loans, we invest a bit more,and are saving a down payment for the house.
October 21st, 2009 at 6:43 am
This is a really good analysis. However, I think people can still pay into a retirement account, whether it’s a 401K, 403B, or Roth IRA, and continue paying down their debt. Of course, I’m not talking with experience here. I’m paying off debt and trying to save for a house.
Yet, the article yesterday from April, and the whole Retirement Week thing, has got me thinking that I need to start contributing, even if it’s a small amount, towards one of these choices. So, my focus will still be pay down that debt, save for the house, but put a small amount towards retirement.
Now I just have to start!
October 21st, 2009 at 6:51 am
@ Michael #12
Cut back on the Roth contributions to perhaps $100 per month and focus that $200 extra on the debt. The Roth will continue to hum along on the smaller contributions and any earnings that your Roth investments provide, while on the other hand your debt will be paid off more quickly. Once the debt is gone, you can return to funding the Roth at the higher rate. It’s just the psyhcology of investment vs debt reduction that has you frustrated. Just compromise and then you can achieve two goals at once. Perhaps not as quickly in either regard, but you’ll be moving forward in both directions.
October 21st, 2009 at 6:59 am
@15 James
How are you doing the math?
Given that the debt is at 5% interest, and you’re assuming a 5% rate of return, in the end, you break even. The money you earn at 5% with is negated by the 5% interest you’re charged with.
You have more money in the retirement account, but less money in the bank.
October 21st, 2009 at 7:02 am
Rock on James for starting the Roth at 20. I’m 22 and still saving 3k to open one. Should have it by next year.
October 21st, 2009 at 7:04 am
My company matches with 30% of up to 10% of my income. It’s not the best match out there, but it’s something. Let’s assume I make $1000 per paycheck (nice even number!) so 10% is $100. If I don’t contribute to my 401k, I might get $70 after taxes. If I do contribute, it’s not taxed (until retirement) so I get $130. $130 grows for 30+ years and is then taxed as I withdraw it. Or I can take the $70 and pay off some debt, but odds are I won’t be able to save $60 for every $70 I throw at debt!
October 21st, 2009 at 7:15 am
I think this is pretty good analysis and basically parallels what I did 6 years ago. I kept investing in my 401(k) enough to gain the full employer match (at 50% of my contributions), but put the rest towards my auto loan and credit card debt until it was paid off. After that, we started our house down payment fund/larger emergency fund and opened Roth IRAs for both myself and my wife.
Now I’m considering halting the Roth IRA for a few years and focusing on our mortgage (30 yr @ 5.375%). I’m not sure the market will return more than that for awhile, so to hedge ourselves I think that might be the better option. Any opinions?
October 21st, 2009 at 7:15 am
@19 Steven
Its in the years of compounding the money is made. Given the fact that I intend to retire at 60 and not push retirement to 61 an extra year of contributions and a 5% rate of return nets me an additional $35,000 (632,522.63-597,402.50) assuming I contribute 5k each year, which shouldn’t be a problem.
A 17k student loan @ 5% interest that should be paid off in 3 years comes out to only $19679.625. That’s only $2679.625 in interest. I’ll taken an additional $35,000 at age 60 over saving a much smaller amount in interest now. By contributing to the Roth now I will be far better of at 60 than if I were to pay the debt off immediately and miss that year of contributions.
October 21st, 2009 at 7:27 am
In response to Michael (Comment #14) and many others:
One of the best ways to be able to contribute to your 401k and to pay off your debt at the same time is to find a second job.
Too many people overlook this option. Find someplace that you think would be fun to hang out. Go work at a bar as a bartender. Get a second job at a book store, a coffee shop, or BestBuy.
By just working a few extra hours a week you can do both. Plus you won’t have time to spend as much of your disposable income.
October 21st, 2009 at 7:45 am
Personally Mr Chiots and I are do both, but we are wrestling with this as well, but not in regards to paying off high interest debt. We want to pay off our mortgage and be completely debt free. We are currently paying a double mortgage payment and still fully funding our IRA’s each year, we are on track to pay off the mortgage in 3 years, we’d love to make it 2, but that would mean lowering retirement amounts.
Another thing you have to look as is the tax savings if your retirement accounts are currently tax deductible. Taking that money that you currently pay into it could bump up your tax due come tax time.
Another reason to pay off debt is that it lowers your monthly commitments from your income. If you do happen to lose your job you won’t have as many bills to pay each month and your emergency fund will cover your expenses for longer. I choose to pay off debt because I really value peace of mind, that is worth any small amount of interest that I will be losing by not investing in retirement and paying off debt instead.
October 21st, 2009 at 7:45 am
I believe in paying your debt down first. Especially credit card debt. That is the only way to GUARANTEE a positive return. In turbulent markets like these, how many investments can offer a guarantee like that?
Also if something were to happen like a job loss, you will not be weighed down by the extra debt if you had been paying it off.
October 21st, 2009 at 7:51 am
This is a great debate, and I built my own calculator to compare the 2 options. There are 2 things I did NOT build into the model: taxes or the risk associated with the investments. I could include the tax impact, but it’s really hard to quantify the risk associated with 401K investment vs. “guaranteed” return of paying down debt. That said, here’s the math:
Assume you have $5K in debt with an average rate of 12%. Assume you get a 50% match at work on your 401K and earn an 8% average return. Assume you have $400 a month to split between paying down debt and putting money into your 401K.
If you split the $400 50/50, you will have paid off the debt in ~29 months, and your 401K will have a value of $9,531.
If you go 100% toward debt and then shift the entire $400 into your 401K, over the SAME 29 month period, you will have paid off the credit card (13 months) and your 401K value will be $9,758.
So, my math (ignoring taxes) is that you’ll be a couple hundred dollars better off if you put it all toward debt. Bump the match to 100%, split up what % goes to debt v. 401K, change the rate on the 401K return or the interest on the cards, whatever you do…you’re always better off paying down the debt. The biggest lever on the outcome is the gap between the 2 rates, and the only time it actually works to put anything into the 401K is if the interest rate on the debt is lower than the rate earned in the 401K.
I’m happy to send anyone the Excel model if you post an e-mail address. I might be able to put it up in Google Docs, but not from work. Maybe someone else could add the tax effect and we could all play around with it. I agree that this would actually be a pretty useful calculator for people. When I did the math I was actually surprised by the outcome, because I was always in the “always put in enough to get the match…it’s 100% return” camp. Now I know it’s not that clear cut. To me the behavioral issue that would get most people is that if they put all the $ to pay down debt, they might not shift it all over to 401K once the debt was paid down. If you don’t do that, then all bets are off, and you’ll end up with less money than if you get going on the 401K.
OK…my actuary friend just reminded me that the other factor is the cap your company might have on their contribution. In my example, if your company would NOT pay a full $400 match in months 14-29, then you would NOT be better putting all the $$ to debt. Darn actuaries! Someone else is going to have to build that part of the model!
October 21st, 2009 at 7:57 am
2 years ago I was looking at my wife’s student loan ($6k) @ 3% interest and a high yield savings account @ 4-5% interest. The 1-2% more we was getting in our savings made me feel comfortable paying the minimum to her student loan.
Although, with the drop in high yield savings account interest rates over the past 2 years, We’ve increased her student loan monthly payments to where we will have them paid off within the next year ($500/month). The increased student loan payments have not bit into our bi-weekly contributions to our Roth IRAs, investment account, or 401k/pension plans, but they have taken a significant bite out of our monthly new home savings.
The question I struggle with every day is whether to dip into my emergency fund ($10k), or even take from our house savings, to just pay off my student loan. I am torn as to whether this is wise or not. I fully realize that by not paying off the loan I am losing about 1.5% in interest (3% for loan versus 1.5% in high yield savings), but at the same time feel this isn’t an emergency. Additionally, while we are saving for a house, and currently have the %20 saved, we do not have a set date for when we want to buy. It could be 2 years down the road or 6 months. So in the case of paying the student loan off, it could derail any short term home purchase.
I’d love to hear others thoughts on this. Especially those that have gone through the same scenario.
October 21st, 2009 at 8:13 am
Writing a post arguing against saving for retirement seems counter intuitive to “National Save for Retirement Week”. All I took away from this post is that the author does not really understand how Roths work. You cannot simply compare interest to interest when dealing with retirement savings.
October 21st, 2009 at 8:24 am
I agree that in the short term you come out ahead paying down the debt immediately. But for things such as a Roth where you can’t get back time since there is a contribution limit each year, missing 1 year can have drastic effects on the funds total value especially over a long period of time. This effect can easily be far worse than a years worth of accrued interest. 401k’s have a much larger contribution limit which can negate this point.
October 21st, 2009 at 8:27 am
I paid all my debt (car loan, student loans) before starting to save for retirement or a house. Two of my four student loans had such low interest rates that I should have moved my snowball into retirement savings instead of into those last two loans. One factor is that my first job had a really good pension (though I now know not to rely on this because the rules can change at any time). Another factor is I was afraid of the market back then. I started by contributing an amount I could afford to lose.
Then I got sick of everyone whining about losing half their money when they had just doubled it three or four times. So when the Roth IRA was invented while income taxes were at their lowest in years, I decided to max that. And now I fund retirement at the same time as I’m paying off my mortgage. My mortgage interest rate, at 6.625%, is near historic lows, nothing like the 18% my parents were paying.
In my case, I suspect that starting with a single-goal strategy helped me get the good frugal habits I have today that help me juggle multiple goals. And I really like being able to save for house repairs and my next car while also spending guilt-free from my vacation savings, so I’m a big fan of the multiple-goal strategy.
That said, I will be really glad when my mortgage is paid off and I continue re-evaluating whether to prepay. I also am planning to do some renovations and plan to pay as I go rather than take out loans.
@Tim, it’s mostly about the interest rate of your loans compared to the earnings you would receive from your investments. Unfortunately, you never know what your investment earnings will be during the time you’re making minimum payments on your loans. No one even knows the average—they used to say the average stock market return was 11%, and now they’re saying 8%. Either way, that sounds better than a 5% student loan but worse than an 18% credit card balance. Another factor is if you’re rich enough to more than max out your contributions, then you will regret not having made some of those contributions earlier and using your extra money to pay off debt now. I was never in that position. $5000 IRA + $15,000 403(b) used to equal or exceed my entire take-home pay.
@Michael #12 – I disagree with Walter. In your shoes I’d look for a way to earn or save $50 extra per month to throw at the more expensive student loan and start your snowball. Or plan to add your next raise to those payments. It’s amazing what even a small addition can do.
@Kevin M – hedge yourself by putting money into both the mortgage and the IRA. The stock market has already been a lot higher than it is now, but people are still saying that the prices are no longer at bargain levels, so I really have no feel for where it’s headed next. Personally, I think of the Roth IRA as a great hedge against tax increases. With all the debt the US is acquiring not to mention the Social Security/Medicare funding problems, tax rates are going nowhere but up. Pay your taxes now, and when the brackets move back to where they were in the 70’s, you’ll be so glad you did. Another strategy is to look at your stock/bond ratio, and put the money you would normally put into bonds (safe, reliable, low-interest vehicles) into your mortgage (a different safe, reliable, probably not-quite-so-low-interest vehicle).
@James – I want to point out that for every month early that you pay off your mortgage, you have an extra month that you can contribute your current principal and interest payment to your retirement fund, so that complicates things a bit. Still by paying into your Roth over more years, you’re reducing the risk that you will buy all your investments when they are expensive.
October 21st, 2009 at 8:32 am
At what point would you pay the minimum on the debt? 5%? 3%? 2%?
I have a Student Loan @1.6% which I will keep contributing the minimum. I have another Student Loan @3.5% which is borderline for me.
I’m of the opinion that you should max all tax-sheltered accounts before paying off a loan that’s <5%, especially if you are many years away from retirement. After that, if you can deal with the extra (calculated) risk you can keep the debt and invest in a taxable account.
October 21st, 2009 at 8:32 am
@Debbie,
The issue is the contribution limit with a Roth. I agree in regards to a 401k. But for a Roth, you can’t go back in time and contribute for a missed year. A missed year factors heavily into a long-term compounded fund.
October 21st, 2009 at 8:51 am
I have really pondered this question before, b/c people were always so insistent that one should NEVER touch their 401K balance. I realize that, in the majority of cases, the 401K really shouldn’t be messed with, as most people in debt obviously have issues with their budgeting. And if you rack up more bills after cleaning out your retirement fund, than you are in worse trouble then you were before with just the debt. But I wondered about myself–I’m very strong with my budgeting now, and have the discipline to make sure I stay with a program. How would it work out for me if I’d used my 401K rather than the consolidation loan that I got from the bank?
I ran some quick numbers with my finances (I contribute up to my company’s match), and came across the following results, assuming a steady 6% rate of return on the 401K
Best: Taking Loan out of 401K, repaying on terms of current loan
Middle: Not touching 401K
Worst: Withdrawing amount out of 401K, repaying on terms of current loan
The penalties for early withdrawl are severe enough that it would take many more months of repayment to restore the balance to an equivalent point. But, in my case at least, a loan actually would have worked out to my benefit. We won’t even discuss how I would have additionally benefitted removing my money from the 401K at the height of the market, and then repaying it now, lol. Sadly, my retirement fund does not allow for loans, so it never was a legitimate option for me.
October 21st, 2009 at 9:06 am
Seems like most of the posters have forgotten to account for age in this argument. Ideally everyone would contribute to their 401k to at least get their companies matching amount. However if someone is seriously considering passing up contributing they should keep in mind the effects of compounding interest. Its more costly for someone in their early twenties to pass up contributing to their 401k in order to pay down debt than it is for someone in their late 40s and early 50s.
October 21st, 2009 at 9:33 am
I think if you have tried the common ways to reduce debt like budgeting and taking on a second job but still cannot eliminate debt then stopping retirement investment is a good ideal.
October 21st, 2009 at 9:36 am
A large number of you have brought up the argument that funding should be directed towards retirement to take advantage of longer periods of compound interest.
Y’all are forgetting the debt is subject to compound interest as well and the longer you take to pay it off the more you will eventually pay.
The choice all comes down to effective interest rates. If the effective rate(not estimated) on retirement is higher than the rate on debt, save. If the rate you are paying on the debt is greater than what you could get for your savings, pay off the debt.
October 21st, 2009 at 9:38 am
For me this is the stage that I go by the numbers. I’m assuming people have built up the emergency fund, paid off the high interest/variable debt. Both paying off low interest debt and contributing towards retirement are admirable and in the right direction. So when you have a match on a 401K you should probably do that. When its not matched then it gets a little harrier, I don’t have a match, but my only debt is a mortgage @ 5.375% with a PMI that makes an effective second mortgage at around 9%. My priorities are to save up to the limit for a 401K because I plan on always maxing it, and a Roth IRA out until I retire, and Paying down the Mortgage to remove the PMI (only losing about 1K according to my estimates). After the PMI is gone The Roth IRA will be maxed. I don’t really know what to do at that point, but it will be a couple years from now until I have all my contributions maxed and PMI removed.
October 21st, 2009 at 9:43 am
We continued to fund our 401ks even when we were paying off $55,000+ in debt using Dave Ramsey’s snowball method and working his baby steps. We figured out that we could do both, pay off our debt and fund our 401k if we lived off of rice and beans for a year, it took us a bit more than a year but we did it.
I think it can make sense to suspend or reduce retirement savings while focusing on debt assuming that you are really, really focusing on paying off debt. If you continue to live a regular life, not a rice and beans life, and chip slowly away and debt while foregoing savings (retirement or otherwise) this makes no sense to me. But if you’ve got a plan and focus then I agree with focusing all energy and money on killing debt (which for me is all debt except mortgage).
October 21st, 2009 at 9:45 am
@ James — Right on! I started contributing when I was 23, and even though I took a few years off (grad school). That’s what my parents did, so that’s what I was going to do too.
Now that I’m older and more financially-savvy, I’m very glad I started young. My other savings goals and getting rid of my student debt are built around this habit, not the other way around.
October 21st, 2009 at 9:59 am
I don’t profess to know the answer to how to beat debt quickly. But for anyone with bad debt that isn’t productive such as a more expensive car the first thing I would suggest doing is selling that car, even at a loss, and paying as much of that debt back now. If you’re set to lose $3000 now on a $50000 car its going to be much less than the interest you pay on it throughout the loans lifetime.
Than go out and buy a more reasonable car, I recommend used. I have seen nice CRVs for $6000 cash online. If you think cars in the $6000 category are beyond your taste than look at yourself and ask why you’re always stressed about debt. The answer will be more clear.
October 21st, 2009 at 10:03 am
@Brandon:
“I would take great issue, however, with your statement that 99% of high interest debt comes from living beyond your means. Buying groceries, getting medical care, etc. etc. are necessities that many Americans end up having to charge.”
I don’t follow your point. Just because a person’s “means” are very, very low doesn’t mean that they’re not still living beyond them. Buying groceries and getting medical care you can’t afford is still living beyond your means. Just because you have a very good reason for living beyond your means doesn’t mean the term no longer applies to you.
“I’m all for paying student loans over 5%. But no matter how many times that Ramsey-Zealot claims I should pay off my 2.625% student loans, I can’t buy it. It’s essentially free money if you look at the stock market over the long term.”
What you’re talking about is called “leverage,” not “free money.” You’re basically investing with borrowed money. And looking at the long term rate of return of the stock market is utterly useless to you, unless you posess a time machine that will let you go back and invest your money at the very beginning of the period in question. Nobody has any clue what the long term rate of return of the stock market will be GOING FORWARD. Your guess is as good as mine. Sure, it’s interesting to look at what it’s done in the past, but as we all know, that’s meaningless with respect to predicting the future.
Paying off a 6% loan, on the other hand, is a known, guaranteed rate of return.
I wanted to make one more point, regarding those who claim that an employer 401(k) match is “an immediate 50% return on your money, compared to the 20% interest you’re paying on your credit cards.” Such comparisons are extremely disingenuous, because the 20% rate on the credit card COMPOUNDS. The match from your employer is a one-time deal. After that first “50% return on your investment,” it drops down to whatever the regular return on your investments is, which is most likely far, far lower than the interest rate your credit card likely carries.
October 21st, 2009 at 10:15 am
@37 Broadcast Thoughts-
Yes the interest on the loan compounds as well. However here’s the kicker, the contribution to the Roth will compound over 39 periods in my case (39 years till retirement). The interest on the loan will only compound for 3 years, 5-10 at most if something goes really wrong. In compounding periods that is a HUGE difference.
@40 Beth-
I’m glad I started now. I’m studying finance at school and the goal is to become a CFP/CFA eventually. Figured it best I follow the advice that I would give to someone else. I just wish I could convince some of my friends to become more financially responsible. One of my buddies has over 100k in student loans through Ohio State University. Its crazy!
October 21st, 2009 at 10:20 am
That is an interesting concept. And one I should consider revisiting.
This would give me an additional couple hundred to pay off a (retirement) loan I have out in the tune of $2700. (Yes I have many problems with my finances - 1)took out a retirement loan; 2) am funding a retirement account but paying tons more in debt interest; 3) Don’t fund close to what I should in my retirement account).
Judgement has been made: temporarily stopping retirement funds to PIF debt.
Do you think someone close to retirement age (1 - 2 years close) should do his
task, too? Or is that too risky?
The other thing…my retirement funds are pretax income. Now it will be post tax income. Is this really worth it?
October 21st, 2009 at 10:25 am
I ran some numbers the other day, and in the long run it depends almost entirely on interest rate. If the interest you pay on your loans is higher than the interest you’ll get on your retirement money, it’s better to focus on your loans.
It seems as though “paying yourself first” has more to do with psychology than it being the best choice financially. If you can honestly trust yourself to save your money, chances are you’ll have more money in the end if you pay off your debt first. That’s a big If, though.
October 21st, 2009 at 11:09 am
I’ve had 401(k) and IRA accounts for years. Now my husband and I earn too much to contribute to our Roth (not a bad problem to have) and for the last couple of years, I was not eligible for 401(k) matching or vesting from my short-term employer. We put our “savings” money into debt repayment, since paying off debt = saving money, IMO.
With my new employer’s 401(k), I will start contributing as soon as eligible. Regarding other “retirement” savings, we are putting on hold till debt is paid off because the debt is what keeps our cost of living too high.
Once debt is gone/cost of living is drastically reduced, all extra $$ will first go into a home fund, because owning a paid-for home at retirement will make cost of living even lower. We don’t have long to save for it at 44 and 50 respectively.
If we don’t find a property we want within five years, we may start looking at other options, like a cheap retirement rental + RV since we love to go road-trippin.’
Not all retirements look the same, so again a decision like this has to be based on what works for YOU. And as someone else noted, your age when you start making these plans is a very important factor.
Something no one else has mentioned (that I caught anyway) is health savings accounts. You can save a LOT of money every year depending on your annual premium if you have a high-deductible health plan (HDHP) and open a health savings account. If you are young or healthy and don’t use medical services much, see about getting a HDHP; your premiums will be lower and you can put the difference in an HSA which will build just like an IRA over time, tax-free. You can use the money for any health expenses during working years, and at retirement use it for any purpose.
Maybe J.D. and his staff could research that topic a little?
October 21st, 2009 at 11:11 am
I have always invested modestly in my 403(b) plan — just a bit more than I needed to put in to get the max match. I figured that in my twenties was a time when putting *anything* in would do me a lot of good later.
My general rule is that for very low interest debts (less than 3% interest), there’s not enough incentive for me to pay them off quickly; instead of pushing on those, I put money towards my emergency fund. When it’s fully-funded, that money will go towards an IRA. The exception is a family loan, which I am motivated to pay off quickly for emotional reasons, not financial ones.
October 21st, 2009 at 11:30 am
I’m working to get to a point where this isn’t an issue for me. How? A couple things:
1. Starting retirement contributions at 20. I opened my Roth right before my 20th birthday and set my contribution goal at $1,000. Until I graduate college, get my bachelor’s and start work in a “real” job, this is what I’m aiming to do.
2. Keeping debt to a minimum. No credit card debt here, just a car loan for building credit and my necessary-but-evil student loans. I can go after these debts without feeling guilty about my retirement savings because I’m not socking too much away. Starting early will give me the same advantage as someone who starts late and socks away much more than I am.
Of course, I plan on saving much more when I’m able to do so, but I’m giving myself precious breathing space later by sacrificing a little now. For all those who wish they started younger, I hope to make you feel a bit better since I’m listening to your stories.
October 21st, 2009 at 11:32 am
@ Debbie # 31,
From a mathemetical standpoint, you may be correct; however, Michael’s issue is more psychological than mathematical. He obviously feels that to stop contributing to the Roth will cost him investment opportunities. Sometimes setting your mind at ease is more important than the numbers can dictate.
October 21st, 2009 at 11:38 am
“The match from your employer is a one-time deal. After that first “50% return on your investment,” it drops down to whatever the regular return on your investments is, which is most likely far, far lower than the interest rate your credit card likely carries.”
This math may be too simple but:
Assume you had $10,000 gross income to either pay off a 29% card; OR invest in your 401(k) matched 50% at 7% and had a 25% tax rate, with retirement many years off:
401(k):
Year 0 $10,000 matched to $15,000
Year 1 $16,050
Year 2 $17,174
Year 3 $18,376
Year 4 $19,662
Pay off 29% interest debt, savings:
Year 0 $10,000 pay 25% taxes $7500
Year 1 $9,675
Year 2 $12,481
Year 3 $16,100
Year 4 $20,769
Of course, eventually you will have to pay taxes on the 401(k), but this calculation perhaps incorrectly ignores that since it assumes its way off 30 years in the future and we’re just looking at short term.
The math does seem to support that paying off the debt quickly is the better thing to do, because compounding at 29% gets very very big after a few years, and even the company match and tax deferral can’t match that.
October 21st, 2009 at 1:34 pm
We’ve very rarely carried a credit card balance, fortunately. (a month after Christmas, for example). But, while the money that companies give 401(k) participants is here now, it wouldn’t surprise me if, one day, many companies start taking away that little perk, too. Companies couldn’t afford to give every employee a pension 15-20 years ago, and it was just a matter of time before almost all companies followed suit…offering employees a 401(k) match to compensate, if they also save. My hunch is, in a few years, most companies will either reduce or eliminate employee matches, too. I’d take it while you can get it.
BTW, I’ve heard that credit card companies are eliminating rewards programs, too. We are partially funding (small percentage, but it all counts, in my book)our daughter’s college fund with a Upromise rewards program.
Life is expensive…save whatever you can, wherever you can.
October 21st, 2009 at 2:03 pm
I think something’s missing from the discussion. If you are carrying debt, you have no choice about making a minimum payment. Which means that there’s a figure involved that a lot of people aren’t taking into consideration. What if, once you’ve paid off the debt, you were to take that minimum payment, and start depositing it into a Roth or IRA and earn a similar RoR to the 401K. You actually regain much of the supposed lost compounding value from the 1-2 years of not contributing to your 401K.
October 21st, 2009 at 2:15 pm
My employer matches my 5% contribution 2-for-1, so I’d be turning down what amounts to a 10% raise if I didn’t take it.
Let’s hope “the market” still exists and that my investments are worth something in 30 years!
October 21st, 2009 at 3:41 pm
My employer’s match far exceeds what I am paying in interest, so I continue to pay on my debt while maxing out my 401K. Once the debt is paid off I will redirect that payment amount into a Roth IRA. Like poster 53 above, I hope the market still exists and my investments are worth something in 30 years! That’s the biggest risk I’m taking.
October 21st, 2009 at 4:31 pm
I get a 10% match on the 401(k). I’m no fool. I’m eating PB&J all week to fund it!
October 21st, 2009 at 5:08 pm
1) For those who are not philosophically opposed to debt, it makes a lot more sense to keep those low-interest student loans with deductible interest. Chances are your home mortgage, car load etc will all cost you more in interest. You certainly should never take money from your emergency fund for that purpose. The alternative is likely credit card debt at higher interest rates and with larger minimum payments.
2) No one should be putting significant money in a regular savings account unless they are maxing out their IRA contributions for the year. If not, put your money for emergencies into a Roth IRA savings account. You can take out the principal any time you need it with no penalties. And if you don’t need it, you are on the road to saving for retirement.
3) Borrowing from future earnings is often a good idea for young people. Your future earnings are likely to be higher. Just understand how much extra it is costing you and make sure what you are buying is worth the extra cost.
There is nothing wrong with borrowing money, unless you spend it wastefully. Then it really doesn’t matter whether you borrowed it or earned it, the money was wasted.
It makes no sense to put off that trip to Europe at 22 in order to have money to take a trip to Europe when you are 82. On the other hand, how really important is that trip and are there other things you will want the money for between 22 and 82 that are more important.
October 21st, 2009 at 5:13 pm
I was just wondering if someone could put these retirement articles in perspective for me. I’m not from the US so not really sure how your system works but am I right in understanding that if you personally do not ever make the choice to put any money towards retirement then when you retire you will have $0 to live off and will have to rely on government benefits?
The reason I ask is because here in Australia employers are required to place the equivalent of 9% of your pre-tax income into superannuation (an investment account of your choosing which you cannot touch until age 65)- so in a sense all employed Australians are paid 109% of their salary, they just can’t touch 9% of it yet. This way, to some extent, unless you don’t work or are nearing retirement you really don’t have to put much thought into retirement savings (other than selecting the right level of risk etc in your superannuation fund).
I was just wondering whether the savings you are talking about are in addition to what employers already contribute or whether you don’t have a mandatory system in the US?
October 21st, 2009 at 6:15 pm
There is no such requirement in the US, although many employers offer retirement plans of some kind. The major source for most people’s retirement is Social Security which is a government program paid for with a payroll tax on current wage earners. Your social security benefit is loosely tied to the amount of wages you paid social security taxes on while working, but its not really a savings plan. It also provides disability insurance if you are unable to work.
October 21st, 2009 at 6:18 pm
Perhaps I’m over simplifying here, but it seems pretty straight forward to me. Debt should be used or “leveraged” to your advantage. We all agree, no credit card debt, no car loans, no high interest loans of any type. But how can you say the math works to pay off other loans over saving? In my case my husband and I are 32 we have the following debt-
-13,000 school loan at 3%
-117,000 home mortgage at 6% 30 year fixed
-22,000 second mortgage at 8.35% 30 year fixed
We have investments in retirement accounts (Roth & 401Ks), a brokerage account, and savings account worth just over $215,000. Our return over the last few years have followed the market. (I’ve been investing since I was 16 so I have earned a lot and lost a lot depending on the market)
We almost max out both our Roth IRA and 401k federal limits every year. We live a frugal lifestyle to do so.
So as you can see we could easily pay off our debt. The question I struggle with is if we should reduce our 401k contribution just to the employer match and pay off that second mortgage. It might take two or three years. But I can’t get past this math-
Let’s use $10,000 for easy numbers.
Lets say I reduce our 401k savings by $10,000 to pay off part of that 2nd mortgage which rides at 8.3%- That $10,000 is actually more like 7,500 after tax. It will take me about three years and I will save roughly $35,000 of interest over the 30 year life of the loan.
Seems good right? but what if I keep that $10,000 as a contribution to my 401k and it will sit there for 30 years until I retire. Even if it grows at a measly 5%, that $10,000 will turn into 40,209.69 in 30 years. Add two more years of $10,000 at 5% for 30 years and you get another 80k. But my loan interest will never exceed the total $37k scheduled.
And my simple math doesn’t even take into consideration any tax benefits on the loan interest. Just the tax deferral on the 401k.
If my logic and math are correct then I’ve already paid for the entire interest on the second loan by saving that for just one year. Does that make sense? Am I missing something?
October 21st, 2009 at 6:40 pm
Wait. I just realized that there is one other factor. If you’re not going to stay in the house for 30 years, or the entire time period of the loan, then you’ll never actually pay the entire amount of the interest. But you will still make your average return on your 401k investment over that 30 years.
I think (and please someone correct me if I’m wrong) that this proves that if the interest rate of the debt is low enough and you are young enough that you should keep the debt and fund the investments so that you can front load and take advantage of the compounding interest and time in the market.
October 21st, 2009 at 7:12 pm
Wow, I am very grateful for the Australian system. As Ellen pointed out, employers here (and self employed people as well!) are required to pay 9% of your salary into what we call superannuation (i.e. retirement savings).
BTW - Ellen, you got your maths wrong, it’s not 109%, you get paid 91% of your total package and the other 9% is automatically put into savings. (9% of 109 is 9.81 both wages and super must add up to 100%).
You cannot access this money until you are at retirement age and it is only taxed at 15%. (The heighest marginal tax rate here is 49% on earnings above around $75K, so 15% is low).
Superannuation must be put into an investment vehicle, this is where you choose your asset allocation ie shares, cash etc and you have to try and make it grow (THIS IS THE HARD PART).
It’s a great system. I don’t even consider the 9% superannuation part of my pay. I’ve never seen the money in my hand and so never miss it. I actually often forget it’s a consideration for my company when they work out how much I am paid. The probably see me and think “We pay Marcella $100,000″. I feel like the company is only paying me $91,000 because I never see the superannuation they pay.
Of course, I want MORE than that when I retire, so I have also just started contributing additionally on my own too. You can do something where you contribute pre-tax dollars, so any money you put in is only taxed 15%.
I am 30, single and I have justed started paying a mortgage on my home. I was alwasy a great saver and saved $85K for a home deposit. I’ve just started putting $85 a fornight away. It’s not much, but it’s a start and I will bump that up every year. I only see a decrease in my pay packet of $48 as I am taxed in a high bracket, so I hardly notice anything. I figure it’s easy to put small amounts away over a longer period of time than try and make up for lost time.
This $85 contribution will be taxed at 15%, so I do lose part of it, but even adding that, I get $60.72 in my retirement account at a cost of $47.97 - That’s $13 free a fortnight…. If I contributed more…..
October 21st, 2009 at 7:45 pm
@ Emoney - remember that after the 3 years, you’ll be able to invest the total amount of the second mortgage payment IN ADDITION to the 10k now.
So you’ll have 27 years of ‘increased’ investment and less risk from having that extra loan and payment. In addition, when you are paying off that second loan you know your rate of return, while you never do in the markets.
Being able to invest that ‘extra’ amount of the old 2nd mortgage payment is the whole point of accelerating paying it off!
October 21st, 2009 at 9:47 pm
Thanks Ross Williams.
@marcella- I agree we have a much better system. Though i don’t that my maths was wrong. My job was advertised as $52000, I get paid $52000 (minus tax), the 9% my employer pays is on top of this making it 109% of the salary I actually signed up for. I guess it depends on which way you look at it.
October 21st, 2009 at 10:36 pm
I have a specific time-line that I want to pay my non-mortgage debt off within, so I have reduced my retirement contribution below the maximum match amount so that I can maintain my debt-payoff goal.
If my income reduces or my expenses go up I will further reduce the retirement contribution if needed because I really want to get out of debt!
No matter what, I do want to keep a small amount flowing into retirement so that I can maintain that attitude/habit.
My guess is that the end balance in my retirement account will be less affected by my investments over the next 2 years and more affected by my pursuit to achieve financial self-sufficiency over the next 20 years.
October 21st, 2009 at 11:12 pm
I think it’s important to NOT co-mingle your finances. Once you separate your finances, you can do both. There’s no reason not to.
Oh yeah, free money is free money. DEFINITELY contribute to the 401K to at least how much they match.
Good debatable topic Baker.
October 21st, 2009 at 11:46 pm
i agree that people should first take care of those bad debts that make them enslaved to financial institutions because as long as they are debtors to these companies they will never be totally free to really enjoy their lives. Keep the good debts
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:52 am
This post goes back to my comment on the other post and my response to this one can be summed up in one word–exactly.
“Pay yourself first” is a great concept, but only, like the author said, if you deserve it, and are in a position to do so.
If you are trying to recover from years of mismanaging your money or living beyond your means, well, it seems to me that you’ve been paying yourself first for a little too long. Might want to try paying somebody else for a change.
The person who was my mentor thorughout my journey out of financial hell used to propose the same concept to me about paying myself first. I explained to him that I would be happy to do so as soon as I felt comfortable morally, and as soon as I was able to.
Great follow up post
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:46 am
I am 37 and have $130k saved for retirement. My debt is primarily car loan and mortgage. I have $25k saved for emergency fund. Because I beleive jobs are going to be harder to come by in even in the post-recovery world, I am putting off contributing to my 401K until I have $30k saved for emergencies. At that point I will get back in. I am surprised nobody has mentioned the tax savings of shielding your money from the IRS. That’s what I like about the 401k
October 22nd, 2009 at 1:35 pm
Hey Nicole, sounds like you are doing a great job of managing your finances, but some of your ideas sound a bit scary as you might miss out on a lot of potential growth by ignoring 401Ks for a while.
(I am assuming US 401Ks sre invested in the stock market and other places.)
If you lost money in the market craash then staying out now for a long time may mean you lose the opportuity to do some real money making and recover some loses.
Here in Australia our sharemarket has recovered 45% from 2008. There has been serious money to be made in the market in 2009. Anybody who put money back in, or left it in the market, made some serious cash or recovered a lot.
Just be careful. I’m not saying you’re wrong to concentrate on saving to some degree, but it’s always a matter of BALANCE, BALANCE, BALANCE and part of a balanced set of personal finances is having exposure to the stock market. People say they’ll get back in “when the market recovers”. No! You get in before it recovers or you don’t make any money.
The worst thing a lot of people have done is leave all their money in shares (boom times - they thought they were on a winner!), then they lost HUGE amounts of money. Then they panicked and sold when it all crashed and put it in cash, wish makes basically no interest, and haven’t had any of the upside of the market that has happened as it recovered.
Occasionally I see people on here (not you Nicole) say “They stock market is evil” or something like that and that they are only keeping cash. Those people will lose out in the end to inflation.
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:21 pm
My company matches 100% of my 401k contribution up to 4% of my paycheck. Is there any advantage to paying above 4%? I was contributing 11% and would like to reduce that to 4% and use the rest to pay off debt.
October 22nd, 2009 at 8:27 pm
I focus on debt first. Without an intense focus on paying off the debt and putting it behind you, it will linger on for years. I like the idea of making cuts in the budget, finding part-time work, if necessary, to get that debt paid off in a few years. I think that’s what Dave Ramsey suggests as well. At that point (after debt), the emergency fund will get established quicker and then onto retirement investing.
October 23rd, 2009 at 8:28 am
@Iain
As a couple of us have pointed out, the math works best if you pay off the debt first, even if you do get a match. That said, it really, really, really depends on the interest you’re paying on the debt you want to pay off and your personal beliefs about debt. The higher the interest is, the bigger the long-term payoff is for paying down the debt before you put money into 401K. The match (even at 200%) and the time until retirement doesn’t matter If you are talking about the same amount of money you could be using to pay off the debt or put into 401K and when you finish with the debt you move all the $$ back toward retirement. As Adam and I point out in our examples, as long as the interest on the debt is higher than the interest you might earn on your 401K, you’re always better off paying off debt EVEN if you get a match. This is not philosophy, it’s arithmetic. You need to overlay your philosophy on the arithmetic to reach a conclusion for yourself.
October 23rd, 2009 at 1:02 pm
Investing in the stock market is pure speculation. The bankers manipulate the stock market so I’m not investing at all until I have the house/heloc paid for.
Every spare penny outside of contributing to EF is paying off debt first. I can then afford to gamble and lose money.
October 23rd, 2009 at 2:14 pm
“As Adam and I point out in our examples, as long as the interest on the debt is higher than the interest you might earn on your 401K, you’re always better off paying off debt EVEN if you get a match.”
I think this overstates it.
For one thing, many 401K plans offer the option of borrowing against them at much lower interest rates than 29%. So you can take the match and pay off your high interest loan.
The second thing is that your interest rate has to be high enough that is offsets the match. That means if you are getting a 100% match - the interest rate you are paying will need to be more than double the return on your investments.
The third issue is your marginal tax rate. If you save 25% on your taxes, that can be applied toward your loan. If your tax rate is higher, you will save even more.
If you change a few of the assumptions in the examples, the numbers will turn out quite different. You need to actually do the math - there is no rule that will tell you what works best in every situation.
If you have the financial capacity to make payments on credit card debt at 29%, you likely have the ability to get a personal loan at a much lower interest rate. The first step for anyone trying to get control over debt is to get your interest rates as low as possible. The fact that you can’t come out ahead in some situations even with a 50% match is just another example of why.
October 23rd, 2009 at 3:44 pm
I’ve owned a few stocks over the years that have become worthless due to not being able to keep up with their debt but I’ve never seen a company without debt go bankrupt.
October 24th, 2009 at 4:20 am
@sjb
Personally, I would hang onto the student loan debt–not pay it off AND not advance payment of it– at 3%–you get a tax break on any interest you pay so it can be even slightly less than that and it is not at all unlikely that you can earn more than 3%. There will be many investment opportunities over the course of the student loan that will earn you more than 3%.
What I would do? I would save a percentage of that in a low-risk/low-interest savings for my house and then invest a percentage in higher risk/higher return to push the total return above 3%.
FWIW, I do have a student loan at 2.675% and I don’t have ANY desire to pay it off quicker, even though I could afford to do so. There are too many other opportunities. And even if for a year or two I need to park some savings earning less than that amount, I figure having those savings gives me the mental freedom to invest other money more aggressively. The loan doesn’t weigh on my mind at all.
October 25th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
We have always max. out our Roth since it became avalible. In my opinion it is the greatest retirement tool out there, Because you pay taxes now ( I hope to still have a very high continual income from real estate when I retire) and If you get in a jam you can withdraw all of your original investment with no taxes or penalties. The only personal debt besides or rentals is our house morgage which we are paying down as fast as we can while still max. our roth
October 29th, 2009 at 11:15 am
@Shane #20 - check with a credit union (college, work, parents may be members, etc). My credit union has a $50 miniumum to open a Roth!!!!
You can always roll it over later when the balance is enough to get into Fidelity or Vanguard or wherever.