This is a guest post from Robert Brokamp of The Motley Fool. Robert is a Certified Financial Planner and the advisor for The Motley Fool’s Rule Your Retirement service. He contributes one new article to Get Rich Slowly every two weeks.
Over the holidays, we said good-bye to an old family member. It was definitely her time to go. She leaked, she conked out at odd times, and she stank. Of course, I’m talking about our old vehicle: a minivan with 182,000 miles on it. I didn’t let go of her easily; after all, we didn’t get rid of our previous car until it had 264,000 miles on it. I figured we could get the minivan to at least 200,000.
But while visiting relatives in Florida, we had the opportunity to buy a used minivan from my sister’s meticulous neighbor for a great price. So we took it. I have to admit, it’s been a huge upgrade. It has all kinds of luxury features that our old minivan didn’t have, such as:
- When you turn it on, it stays on until you turn it off.
- When it rains, the water stays out of the vehicle.
- There’s an electrical device in the cigarette lighter that I can use to charge my cell phone, rather than just an empty hole where an electrical device used to be.
- The speedometer is an accurate reflection of the speed I’m traveling, rather than a number to which I have to add five to 15 mph.
- The brake light comes on only when the emergency brake is actually engaged.
- It has this thing called “air conditioning.”
- It doesn’t stink. (The smell in the old car came from water coming in and getting the carpets all moldy.)
- It has a “keyless remote,” which is a device on the key ring with buttons that, when pushed, cause the side doors to slide open.
(Regarding that last feature, here’s a trick you can play on the uninitiated: I put the keyless remote in my pocket, and told my mom and my aunt that the doors were voice activated, but you had to use the secret word. In this van’s case, I told them, the secret word was “monkey _____.” Since this is a family website, I can’t print the actual word, but use your imagination and you’ll be close. So I got my 70-something mom and aunt to yell, “Monkey ____!” at the van, pressed the button in my pocket, and — voila! — the doors opened. They just couldn’t get over it. “I have to get me one of those!” my aunt exclaimed. I let them yell, “Monkey ___!” at the van for another 15 minutes, closing and opening the doors, until I told them the truth. If I had videotaped it, we’d all be YouTube heroes by now.)
Drive a lemon, save some cabbage
I take my share of barbs from family and friends for driving clunkers. But for me, there are two driving (no pun intended) factors: 1) money, and 2) safety. Let’s look at the first one.
At what point is repairing an old vehicle just throwing good money after bad? Here’s one way to look at it: According to Comerica Bank, creator of the Auto Affordability Index, the average cost of a light vehicle last year was $25,500. If you had to finance that total amount over four years at the going rate of 6.56% (according to Bankrate), it would cost you $605.44 a month. If you spend less than that on repairs of the old vehicle, then keeping it saves money…at least for the next four years. At that point, the newer car would be paid off, and the old car would be really old.
But in the meantime, if it cost you only $200 a month to maintain the old vehicle, you saved $405.44 a month, or $19,461.12 over four years. Not too shabby.
While that’s helpful as a way to begin to think about the question, it doesn’t really help with determining a bottom-line number for an actual person because it’s based on an average number, 100% financing, and the purchase of a new car. To help someone like you — who is non-average, who likely wouldn’t finance the entire purchase, and who might be buying a “pre-owned” car (which, to me, is an inappropriate term, since “pre-owned” should mean “before it was owned,” that is, new) — you’ll have to whip out a spreadsheet and factor in all the costs. That includes assuming higher maintenance costs for the older car, but also higher insurance, higher property tax (if you, like me, live in a state that charges such things), and transaction costs after replacing your jalopy. It’s not an exact science, since it involves forecasting future maintenance costs — an impossible task. But it will give you some numbers to think about. In most cases, I bet the analysis will show that keeping the old car is the way to go, financially.
But then there’s safety
Did I do just such an analysis when I decided to replace our old minivan? Not exactly. We had reached a point where we were spending more than $2,000 a year on maintenance, and I had a rough idea of how much it would cost to fix the major problems with our van. Then this opportunity came up, to buy a van from one of those people who perform regular maintenance and have the records to prove it, at a price $2,000 to $5,000 below what it would have cost me to get the same vehicle from Craigslist or Carmax.
But what really got me was that the old van just didn’t feel safe anymore. Something was always going wrong, and I didn’t want something major to happen while my wife was on the highway with our kids. And I must admit, it’s nice to have a car that stays dry, has A/C, and doesn’t stink…yet. If I ran the numbers, I suspect my spreadsheet would have said, “Keep the old car.” But as readers of this website know, financial decisions don’t always come down to dollar and cents.
So I feel comfortable with the decision we made. As for our old van, my sister and brother-in-law got the major problems fixed and arranged to have it donated to a church they work with, so we’ll get a tax deduction out of the deal (another factor that would have gone into the spreadsheet) and the van will hopefully last long enough to do some good. My relatives in Florida approved of the trade-off, especially those who make jokes about the heaps we’ve driven, and believe that any car should be replaced once it reaches 100,000 miles.
Yet the math clearly shows that driving a car well beyond that point is the right thing to do for your net worth. According to Comerica Bank, the purchase of a new car costs 21.9 weeks of a median household’s income. That’s working 42% of the year just for a car. To me, acquiring a new vehicle before it’s necessary is a bunch of financial monkey _____.
This article is about Cars, Choices Wednesday, 3rd February 2010 (by J.D. Roth)


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February 3rd, 2010 at 5:34 am
Great Post! I have a 97 Camry that is pushing 210k and I’ve been debating on whether to replace the car or not. Last year I spent $1600 on some major issues that came up and I have a feeling the next fix will be at a similar price range. My friends and family also make fun of me for driving such a clunker but I don’t mind. It gets me from point a to point b no problem. I have been thinking though that once the repair costs are greater than what the car is worth, it may be a good time to replace it with another used car.
February 3rd, 2010 at 5:47 am
As the owner of a 94 Toyota Corolla with 170k miles on it, I’m with you in keeping cars until they feel unreliable. I keep meaning to get a bumper sticker for it that says “No car payments since 1996.” There’s something to be said for not feeling particularly worried about the car being stolen or dinged, or having stuff spilled in it.
Every time we need something fixed, we set a maximum, so that we’ll have a good idea of when it will be time to retired the old girl. I keep hoping that my parents will decide to upgrade from their cream puff 2000 Honda Civic about the same time.
February 3rd, 2010 at 5:47 am
I was driving a 1993 Oldsmobile Achieva until last year. I truly loved that car and was sad when I had to get a new one.
I much prefer the old car to my new one that has a car payment!
February 3rd, 2010 at 5:48 am
Thanks for including an article on when to replace your car. I’ve been pondering the question regarding
Jolly Green Gene (my car). JGG is a 96 Chrysler Voyager (the short version) with only 90,000 miles on the odometer. In 2009 I paid $6967 including all taxes, insurance, license fees, gas, and maintenance fees.
I’d spoken to my insurance agent about whether replacing JGG with a recent-model (2003-5) used sedan was a good idea. He told me something wise: He said that since the insurance costs would be about the same, and since the mileage on JCG car was so low, it made much more financial sense for me to keep the car I have.
February 3rd, 2010 at 6:04 am
Robert,
Great article and right on target. I believe in driving your car into the ground and saving what you would of spent on a lease/car loan. Then buying a certified used car outright. Obviously over time you get small upgrades (in your case, a huge one!). Nice job!
James
February 3rd, 2010 at 6:14 am
This is timely for me! I just picked up my 93 Volvo from the mechanic, after it died on me for the second time in 2 weeks at a busy intersection (although there are other cosmetic and comfort problems with it, it has never been unreliable). I am ready for a newer car, but we’re in the middle of trying to buy a house and car is the lower priority until we’re settled there. I know I am not going to like car payments, and that financially it still makes sense to fix the occasion problem, but I don’t like my car anymore! So, I’ve set myself a time frame of 4 months after we close on the house (which gives me time to find the car and save more for downpayment), and is close enough that I feel like I have a plan and can get my next car on my terms.
February 3rd, 2010 at 6:26 am
It sounds like you’ve been driving with a major safety issue for quite a while and have chosen to ignore it. Breathing in mold spores in a confined space is especially dangerous for children and “70-something” mom’s. Saving money is great but it shouldn’t come at the expense of safety.
February 3rd, 2010 at 6:30 am
Our children learned to drive in our Corolla, the same car they travelled around in their car seats in years past. My wife was driving our daughter and a friend once when the friend asked her how to get the window down. She was looking for the button-had never seen a crank handle to roll down the window.
I usually try to buy 2-3 year old cars and drive them for a long time, though I did get a new car last year when prices were very low. Before that, the newest car in the family was a 2001.
February 3rd, 2010 at 6:45 am
We just retired my husband’s 1992 Nissan Sentra. Last year we spent $2,600 in car repairs on it. The engine still worked; but everything else was falling apart. We decided in early December to go to one-car. We tested it first before making the commitment to bid good-bye to the Nissan. After a one month trial run, we decided that we can get by with one car. We also became members of ZipCar, just in case we both need a car at the same time. My husband works the mid-night shift, and I walk to work, so it hasn’t been that difficult to become a one-car family. We’re looking forward to only paying car insurance on one car, and only maintaining one car. It will make it easier to save for our next car. Our remaining car is a 2000 VW New Beetle with 116,000 miles on it–Runs great!
February 3rd, 2010 at 6:47 am
Great article. Makes me feel much better about keeping my 20+ year old Corolla with over 180,000 kms for a while yet. Deep down I know it should be reliable for at least another 100,000 kms.
I’ve tried to justify a new (second hand) car in my head many times from the whole ‘economy’ angle. Where getting a smaller car will eventually pay for itself through lower fuel/ maintenance costs. But when I do the sums even in my head, the break-even point is so far into the future that it’s far more cost effective to simply keep maintaining the car I have.
Eg. 25,000 kms/ year (the highest I’ve done!) Equals approx 2250L of fuel given my current efficiency. To get a car that is drastically more efficient, say 20% more efficient. I would only save approx $600/year on fuel. That’s a 10+ year pay off time. Simply not worth it.
February 3rd, 2010 at 6:54 am
Are there any laws in the US on how broken down a car can be, before it’s illegal to drive it on public roads?
I’m asking because we have some quite strict laws on this, which forces you to either spend a bunch on repairs, buy a new car or take the bus.
February 3rd, 2010 at 6:54 am
I absolutely enjoyed and agree with this article. I drive a ‘92 Merc that my mom sold me for $1 a few years back. It’s got 90,000 miles on it and has been in a few wrecks, but all in all it’s a great car. And it’s going to help me attain my financial goals in the next two years. Yes, I get laughed at. I’ve gotten used to it and frankly I’m the one who is going to be chuckling when I’m debt-free someday down the road. I figure if I’ve spent less than $1,000 on it per year (last year I spent nothing!) it’s worth it!!! I love you Felix (the car haha). By the way, it just passed inspection the other day and the emissions are absolutely perfect. Ford/Lincoln Mercury can build a car.
February 3rd, 2010 at 6:58 am
The car thing has always been hard for me. When really is the right time to say goodbye to an old car? If I had a crystal ball for coming repairs it would make it easier. The whole “feel safe” is more of an emotional thing (and can feel safe to one member of the family but not another).
On an up note just want to give a shout out to my 10 yr old Ford Taurus Wagon. Bought 3 yrs ago for $4500. Would never have bought a Ford Taurus except that I drove one for years as a company car. Repairs have been minimal and inexpensive.
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:06 am
If I had a newer car, I would feel obliged to carry comprehensive insurance, which is another big price difference. On the other hand, of course, if this car is totaled I don’t want to go out and buy another 14-year-old car, so it’s important to have some reserves on hand.
Of course, how inexpensive a vehicle you can get away with depends on what you’re carrying around in it, particularly the size of ego.
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:06 am
I’m all in favor or driving every last drop out of your car, but PLEASE maintain it and keep the emissions under control! One of my biggest pet peeves are the cars on the road that leave a trail of chemical stink behind them. That’s both rude and bad for the environment, and I wish more people would suck it up and fix or replace the car when it gets to that condition.
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:15 am
You should mention a common auto purchase philosophy, “drive it til it drops.” I’ve done this, it is quite economical. The idea is simple, buy a beater, something cheap like under $500, a car that passes safety inspection but that’s about all. Then do ZERO maintenance on it, except for replacing fluids (oil, coolant, trans fluid, etc). Then drive it til it stops running, sell it, and start again.
I did this once, quite a few years ago, I bought an old 1967 Dodge Dart for $500, it was 15 years old at the time. It had a clogged up radiator so I flushed it once, and it ran for several years with zero maintenance. Best, cheapest car I ever owned.
Anyway, the only downside to this is safety. Older used cars are always less safe than the latest modern cars. They can have bad brakes or poor steering, so you take a risk with an old car. I once saw a TV documentary that described the health risks of being poor, it asserted that the #1 health risk was auto accidents, because the poor can’t afford a safe car, just an old broken down, risky car.
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:18 am
I have bought 1 new car. Going on 12 years now without any major issues. Still going great!
I have bought 4-5 used cars (all of them “certified”). All but one have had major issues within 1-2 years. (over about 15 years)
When I added up all I spent on used car maintenance, I am 2-3x what I have spent on my 1 new car. I keep trying, hoping to get the supposed savings, but replacing transmissions, engines, brakes, wheels, and everything else sure makes it difficult.
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:20 am
Liked the article. I kept my old civic until I felt it was unsafe and too small for my liking. It was great to have the extra cash around by not making payments and having reduced insurance. I was able to take some nice vacations and have some memories that will never fade.
However, once the baby was on its way I wanted an updated car with better crash ratings, airbags, and better features (power windows).
Bottom line, I could have bought a cheaper car but if I am going to buy something that I will have around for 10-15 years I am going to buy what I want. This made me balance my desire for a low cost verses a desire for a luxury car. Ultimately, finding what was right for the family. Everyone sits on the low cost/luxury car line in a different spot for different reasons. However, where they sit is the right spot for them (as long as they can afford the vehicle).
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:23 am
We just went through this dilemma when my old Explorer would not pass inspection unless it basically got a new engine. So for us that was too pricey and it was time to say goodbye to it and get something else. Found a great pre-owned mini van at auction which will hopefully last a while.
BTW–I always thought “pre-owned” was short for Previously Owned.
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:34 am
So long as we can maintain our cars and stay ahead of the amount it would cost to make a car payment, we’re going to do it.
For those who decide to stick things out, aside from mechanical maintenance, it’s worth it to splurge on a complete interior/exterior clean/shampoo/detail. Having your car look/smell nice and shiny helps maintain the right mindset for keeping an old faithful friend.
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:37 am
@11: I think car maintenance laws vary by state. When I lived in Connecticut I had to have my car officially tested by the DMV every year or two - and it was rigorous! You had to be able to open all doors from the inside and outside, use the wipers, lights, etc.
Now that I’m in Chicago I think I’ve had to have my car tested once in 6 years and that was just for emissions. On the downside, I frequently drive behind such clunkers that I worry some part of their car will fly off and hit mine!
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:39 am
I live downtown in Toronto and have a 2 minute walk to work every day, so my car doesn’t get much use except on the odd weekend when I have to visit family in the suburbs. My car was brought brand new 10 years old and has about 60,000 miles on it (100k km). It runs great and I do regularly maintenance every 3-6 months (oil change, fluids, etc.) and every once in a while I’ll spend real money to get a filter replaced or the rad flushed. It looks great, no models replaced it (discontinued) so it will always look like the newest version. Due to these factors, I’m driving it til it falls apart.
The biggest problem I have is what everyone else thinks of it. “You’re rich, why do you drive that? Where’s your Mercedes?” Bah. The toughest part of personal finance is not keeping up with the Joneses.
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:49 am
Having purchased an ‘09 Chevy Malibu and an ‘09 Toyota Rav4 last year, I am ten years away from getting to a drop-dead point on either vehicle. But if either vehicle starts leaking water or smelling, it’s an instant “repair or gone” scenario. No moldy/old cat litter smelling car for me.
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:52 am
This is a very good idea! If I could just get my husband on board with it. This past Christmas he bought me a brand new Mercedes. It was parked in the driveway with a big red bow on it. Frankly, I didn’t want the car. I would’ve been fine driving my 2 year old car for a bit longer.
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:56 am
@11 - Car maintenance laws vary, testing regs. vary by state. In PA, we require both yearly emissions and inspection…but emissions requirements vary by individual county.
It sort of amazes me how a lot of people ignore glaring safety issues with their vehicles or try to pass off inspections by a thread in the name of being cheap. If you have a nagging suspicion that your car is unsafe to YOU but you refuse to perform maintenance, you’re also being a menace to other drivers.
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:59 am
I agree with keeping a car around as long as it is safe, reliable and in good working condition. (smelling bad and no AC would have to go) I’ve always had a long commute so reliability is important to me.
I like to buy new and drive them as far as they can go. I get a 5 yr loan. When the loan is up, I keep making payments (to myself or on a car for my wife). I figure if I can get another 5 years out of the car it has paid me back. I’ll always have 1 car payment, I’m just trying to avoid 2.
I’m more a fan of new cars than used though. I’ve tried to look at cars that are a few years old. It always seems like they want too much for used cars. This is especially true on cars like Honda and Toyota that hold their resale value well. I remember looking for a used Sienna and finding that ones that were a couple years old were selling for more than what the new one I wanted (I didn’t want leater, navigation etc but the only used ones I saw had these features)
Purchasing a used car also takes a lot more time to find the right one. Every new honda civic is essentially the same no matter which dealer you chose but every used car is unique. I’ve had luck w/ private sellers in the past but I haven’t been able to find what I want recently.
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:04 am
You can also rent cars for long trips or when you need a nice car when family comes to town. We did that a few times during the last two years of owning my prior car and we still came out way ahead.
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:13 am
Timely post. We have a 10 year old Nissan Sentra and a 6 year old Toyota Matrix with 95,000 miles on each, both paid for. Changed struts, tires, fluids and filters on them both recently. I also detailed them to please my wife who has been asking for a newer car. I gave her the option of a nice overseas trip every year or a pre-owned car with car payments but we cannot do both. She chose the trip.
I just opened a new sub-account with ING Direct and will transfer funds weekly to fund in cash a newer preowned car in the next 3 years or later if the present cars hold out.
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:16 am
My car is a 2000 Saturn with 134,000 miles on it. My husband has a 2001 Chrysler with 160,000 miles on it.
We’re keeping them until they become unsafe or are too costly to fix (like if the engine goes).
For occasionla long trips, we rent a car.
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:18 am
Like Karen, my husband & I decided last year to downsize to one car. We drive a 2000 Saturn wagon with 97,000 miles. Last year we spent $400 on service including routine oil changes. This year we will put in new shocks & may have it done by the local school to save more money. Then I’m going to take the old girl to the car detailing place & have it cleaned inside & out. It will look great. Heck, we’ve saved so much money this year on transportation that we can pay cash for a trip to Costa Rica and are still put away more money than when we were driving two cars. I really suggest to people that they drive one car. It is a huge money saver. We don’t have access to zip car but even with the occasional rental we save big. Last year we spent $600 on car rental and about $300 on bus, trains & cabs. I guess my comments aren’t too different than most; and I definitely agree that safety has to come before saving money.
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:25 am
I am surprised that many people who talk about not having had car payments in years by driving 10+ year old cars never planned for replacing that vehicle. By mentioning that they will not like having to live with car payments.
Maybe I am making the assumption that because you drive an older/paid for car, you’re debt free. For some I am sure that is not the case and you simply can only scrape by with that kind of vehicle. But for most did you not think you’re car will eventually run out of steam?
If you’re keeping a car for an average of 10 years even $50 a month into a car fund would result in a 6K+interest car paid for in cash. After 10 years a 6K car (likely 3-5 year old car that ran ~15-20K new) is going to feel like a huge leap in safety and comfort.
Honestly maybe it’s just me. I am a car guy. I would buy two new cars every year if I could afford it. But we have made a decision to live debt free (except the house). We live on a budget, (as I am sure most people reading this site do or at least are interested in doing) we are lucky that we have a good positive cash flow every month. We make our car payments to ourselves. So when the urge hits (not because the car was run into the ground) I can find what I want and purchase it. Is that the smartest financial decision vs. driving a car into the ground. No, does it make me happy to know every 4-5 years I can pay cash for a newer fun car yes.
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:30 am
What about safety. I am sure the newer vehicles have better safety goodies installed than the older vehicles. But how old is safe is something worth discussing. I am not an expert on this one. But I had like to have some one comment on this.
For example, a 2006 Ford may have more or less same set of safety features as a 2010 Ford, but definitely not the same as 1990 Ford.
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:33 am
I currently drive a 2001 Chevy Cavalier that I paid $100 for. It was on its way to the junkyard and the previous owners couldn’t get it started. They said it sat for six months. I jumped the battery and that got it going.
I had to replace the tires and the battery. Right now it needs a $300 brake job which I am thinking about — but I’m not sure I want to put money into it.
It leaks gas if you try to fill it up all the way. The passenger window doesn’t close all the way, the check engine light is on. The washier fluid bin is cracked so I can’t spray the windshield. I’m really debating if it is time to drop this thing, or put $500 into fixing it. What’s the alternative? I am clearing debt right now and I will not take on a car payment. Decisions Decisions.
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:47 am
Good job, you care more about your wallet than the lives of others.
Driving a car with a broken speedometer? Seriously? It’s also illegal.
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:48 am
I have a friend who just replaced his car. He is the type who thinks replacing a car about once every year or two is a necessity. He is 26 and has had 8 cars, from clunkers to brand new. His old 2001 Jeep just turned over 90,000 miles, and in his eyes it was falling apart. It needed $1800 in repairs according to him, but it still ran fine.
He caught car fever in mid-January and bought a 2004 Grand Prix with 92,000 miles two weeks later. I don’t think my friend has ever paid off a loan in full. He goes from car to car and rolls over thousands on each loan (four loans in total). He supposedly bought the car for $6000, plus a 2-year extended warranty (dumb!), plus tax, title, and fees. He is paying a whopping 19% interest with his 500 credit score, anchored by a bankruptcy. His payments are $350 for 41 months. After a quick calculation (that he probably didn’t do) he is paying $14350 for a car that will be worth $4000 or less, and have 150,000 miles by the time he pays it off. The dealer is laughing all the way to the bank (the bank is laughing too). I strongly advised against this purchase, but there was no changing his mind. You are really in a bad place, and the dealer has ALL the power when you still owe money on an old loan. If he would have only saved that $350 a month for a year or so he could have had $4000 saved towards a used car, and could have sold his jeep and could have a $0 payment for the next 3 years. He lives, but he doesn’t learn.
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:58 am
We have new cars that are both now paid off–06 and 08. Prior to that we had used ones that were money pits. I felt they were safe and certainly the money that we spent on them was less than what the car, properly fixed up, was worth. However, one thing that I haven’t really seen much comment about was the “hassle factor” involved in fixing an older vehicle. There’s time and worry involved in diagnosis, shopping for the best service and price, having the repair done, and the inconvenience of not having a car. And then there’s the time spent worrying that something else will come up and leave you stranded.
Opportunity cost should be factored in here. We’ll drive our new cars until they reach the point where the “value” of them–actual value, needed repair, and the “hassle factor”–is just about zero. But folks should take into consideration that last factor and give it some $$ value.
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:03 am
hmmm, my guess is monkey MADNESS? no? ok, monkey BUSINESS? well, i just can’t think what it might be…
anyway, i have a 10 year old nissan sentra that is at about 175K miles. it’s been a wonderful car, and my 2nd sentra. my husband’s titan, however, we bought used a couple of years ago and appears to be a lemon. we will be trading it in, as we need a vehicle for our year-long road trip. great post!
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:08 am
I waited till my car literally died before getting a new one. I’m not a car person and don’t care about that at all, and would rather put money towards other things and savings unless I absolutely need to spend on a car.
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:11 am
Great article - I drive a 1996 Sentra with 116k miles on it (Bought in 2000 with only 14k on it). The one thing I havent seen mentioned is the differences in mileage for new cars. My car gets great mileage and I cringe when I see ads for new cars getting worse mileage!
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:17 am
@Jason:
Yes, we are saving in anticipation of eventually needing to replace our older vehicles. That, to me, is a given.
No, we are not debt free, but we are steadily and agressively working on it. Driving an older/paid for car is part of what is getting us there.
No, driving an older vehicle is not our only option. We could both “afford” to go out a finance a new or newer vehicle right now…but getting out of debt is much more appealing to us right now.
Finally, our cars are well maintained and safe. They are 10 years old, but we do have air bags, anti-lock brakes, day time driving lights, our brake lights, turn signals, etc work and so on. Additonally, in our state, every two years we must pass an emmissions and vehicle safety test.
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:25 am
When to replace your car?
Synopsis: When it is *WORN* out.
Hang on to it and you will know when, without fancy formulas.
Most people use mathematical formulas to rationalize a decision to buy a car for reasons other than their current car truly being used up. That is perfectly fine, BTW.
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:31 am
This article describes my relationship with my nearly 20 year old 1991 Honda Civic which I bought used in 1999 with 50,000 miles on it for $6,000.
It is now 2010 and the car has 194,000 miles on it.
I saw the business end of a tow truck about 3 times last year, the last major repair was embarrassingly expensive, something needs to be fixed every few months, sometimes with used parts because new ones don’t exist, the same things keep breaking over and over again. No air conditioning and my window leaks in the rain.
I have two more months of saving to go before I buy a new car with the knowledge that I really did use this car up
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:33 am
“But in the meantime, if it cost you only $200 a month to maintain the old vehicle, you saved $405.44 a month, or $19,461.12 over four years. Not too shabby.”
First, if you are able to purchase directly without financing (certainly possible if you trade in a 5 year old vehicle). Then you are only saving $15,961. Still a large amount, right?
WRONG, these arguments always forget a tiny fact a car is an asset (a fast depreciating asset, but it is still one). Your $25k car with 48,000 miles will be worth between $10k and $15k depending on make/model and your care of it. Meanwhile your rusty and falling apart beater will be worth a couple hundred to the junkyard. Meaning driving your dangerous and outdated car saved you just a couple grand. For many people $100 a month is a small price to pay for having a safe and reliable vehicle and the joy that comes with seeing a car as more than just an A to B method.
I prefer to buy a greatly discounted new vehicle or 1 year old used vehicle with cash and trade it in for another in 4-5 years. Best of both worlds.
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:39 am
What kind of analysis do you put into it when your old car has a *very* expensive repair? Of course you would like to believe that after doing that repair you would be able to get your value out of it, but how do you weight the options?
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:43 am
Mylegs - I completely agree that people who are driving very old cars seem not to factor in the fact that they are spending time as well as money getting their cars fixed when the inevitable repairs are needed.
My husband drives his car from one client appointment to the next one (and the next), all over the city. If his car needed frequent repairs he would not only be extremely inconvenienced by the time he would have to take to drop off the car and get the estimates, etc., but he would have to rent a car in order to continue working for the next few days. And that’s not counting the fact that it would be very likely he would miss or have to reschedule appointments because of the time spent at the garage - and that means lost income.
For people who have a 9-5 job, this may not be a big deal - just call the boss and tell him you have car trouble. For the self-employed who really rely on their car as their means of seeing clients, an old, unreliable car can be a real detriment. And that’s just financially - imagine the emotional stress this would induce. Driving a car into the ground would not be worth it in my husband’s case.
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:46 am
TosaJen, post #2
Word!
I love not having to be worried about theft or small scrapes. I also thought about a “I own it” bumper sticker
BTW, if you are looking for a maximum dollar amount to pay for repairs before selling, you can go on Edmunds.com to find out how much your car is worth.
Even so repairing is cheaper than buying if you aren’t repairing all of the time.
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:49 am
Oh, and knowingly driving a car with moldy carpets when you have kids?
No amount of money in the world would ever entice me to expose my child to mold spores in a small enclosed area.
This is why I really dislike this new “trend” of being thrifty - sometimes people tend to lose sight of what’s really important in the pursuit of saving a few lousy bucks.
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:50 am
Trusted mechanics also help a lot. My mom “lent” me her ‘96 Corolla for two years (we sold it back and forth for $1). It’s a wonderful car but some maintenance is unavoidable. Our mechanics were able to give me a minimum 3 months (usually closer to 6) on all repairs so nothing came as a surprise and there was no panic. Having time to decide and plan helps a lot.
I have a new (to me, ‘06) car now and, like Craig #38, while I love it I’m just not a car person and will probably drive this one until it falls apart. But taking it in twice a year to get the OK from my mechanics is great peace of mind.
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:51 am
I’m with others here who say: if you have to drive a clunker, fine. But if you’re doing it just because you’re cheap you should re-evaluate. There are things you can live with and things you can, but shouldn’t. The radio went out, big deal. That isn’t going to compromise safety. But a speedometer going out? Your kids got glue on the seat, that’s nothing. But mold in the upholstery?
If it’s still running fine then why not get these things fixed (other than you are that cheap)? If something on my dash went out my car guy would go to pick-n-pull and get a whole newish one for a few dollars, $100-200 and it’s functional again. If it leaked my husband would go to town with epoxy (and it would probably be more structurally sound than when we bought it). As for the mold, if I couldn’t clean it I would just replace the car because life is too short to drive a smelly and allergy aggravating car.
But the one-up people do with how old and junky their car is seems more cheap than frugal. That isn’t to say that you should buy new and trade it in after 5 years or 50k miles. But, for example, my 01 Explorer is nearing 100k miles, so I set aside money every paycheck for a new one (and/or repairs). She’ll get new belts, hoses and everything flushed this year and then I’ll run her until she starts having mechanical problems. In four years I will have enough to buy a very nice 2-3 year old replacement. If she’s still running, great. But if she needs repairs or if there are a number of comfort issues, then I’ll just let her die a peaceful death.
Just like everything there are trade-offs, and I don’t see the virtue in keeping a vehicle that long. At that point it seems you’re just making at your own expense, cutting off your nose to spite your face as it were.
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:52 am
I drive a ‘99 Chevy Malibu with 128,000 miles on it. It’s served me well, and truthfully, I’ve only had to put $2500 or so into it (beyond fluids and oil changes) since I bought in in 2001. It’s starting to show its age, however, and the state in which I currently reside wants $2000 in repairs to meet the inspection standards. (I cheated and registered it in a different state that has no such rules.)
My car runs well enough, doesn’t die at idle, and I don’t worry about not getting it started or stranding me on the side of the road. My real question comes down to throwing good money after bad… do I make those repairs just to have a bunch more next year? At the time my car failed inspection, I figured I would just keep the fluids and oil clean, and when it died, it died.
But here’s the rub: This is my commuter car. I drive 13 miles round trip to work, and put less than 4000 miles on it each year. At that rate, I’ve got 15 years before I reach 180,000 miles. Do I really think I’ll keep it 15 years? Probably not. But I am reasonably sure I’ll have the same commute for the next 5 years, and it’s reasonable for me to keep it at least that long.
I’m now starting to rethink my plan to let everything slide. What “normal” people put on their car in three months, I put on in a year. I don’t expect a bunch of things to start breaking within the next 4000 miles. If $2k-$3k in repairs now keeps this thing going for 5 more years, it’s likely worth it, even though blue book on this thing is only $1000.
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:53 am
I seem to be a in a different category…I hate errands like getting the car repaired. I hate them so much that I will get a new-to-me car whenever my car starts giving me problems more than once a year.
So far, my 2005 Aveo is fine and only has 40,000 miles on it. It needed an 02 sensor and belt replaced last year, which cost $500, but it wasn’t a pain in the booty to get fixed and it’s been fine ever since. I’m only aiming to keep it for another 3-5 years. I really can’t stand car problems…
But that’s okay since people who like really great deals can get my “low” mileage cars really cheap and I’m happy to break in the next one for them too. I’ll have a $1500-$2000 Aveo for sale in 3-5 years.
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:01 am
“…any car should be replaced once it reaches 100,000 miles.” Well, in this mobile society where we commute longer and farther and have more far-flung families, it doesn’t take long to reach 100k. We drive a 2000 VW Jetta TDI with 260,000 miles and it still runs like a champ. Looks great too - nobody would ever call it a “heap” or wonder why we don’t drive something better/safer.
This was a great post. One thing to remember that no matter what, at the end of the day, a vehicle is still a depreciating asset. One of my high school teachers summed it up the best. “A car is like a drug habit. It will always cost you money.”
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:19 am
This is extremely timely, since my 98 Saturn with 250k miles needs a $1k+ repair which might or might not fix the actual problem. It leaks from everywhere, the AC is dead, it smells funny and the fabric on the seats & floor is about worn through.
All I need now is a fantastic deal on a gently used, fuel-efficient car that will comfortably hold 2 people, 2 60lb dogs, and a fair amount of stuff.
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:34 am
I always look for a used car with average mileage and 3-5 yrs old model, pay it in full and keep it for 3-5 yrs. No compromise with safety and environment. The joy is not having car payments and saving in interest on a depreciating asset.
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:41 am
Our 1999 Honda Accord coupe has 160K+ miles on it, looks great, runs great. Our 1995 Honda Accord coupe has 140K+ miles on it, looks fine, runs fine.
We spend about $1000/yr on maintenance for each car. We think this is an entirely reasonable budget line item for reliable transportation (that also happens to be fun to operate and fairly good-looking). We stick to the recommended maintenance schedule and neither of us has ever had a “breakdown.”
Re: repairs and the self-employed: DH can rent a car on-site at the dealer, so there’s very little time lost - and time is money. It’s a wash paying for the rental. This shouldn’t be an excuse to not maintain the car OR to keep financing new ones.
We went for four years with one car. I was able to walk to work at the time. On average I rented a car four weekends a year. An enormous savings if walking or public transportation are reasonable options.
Both our vehicles are paid off, and desirable models, but neither is an “asset.” The Kelly values on each are less than 25% the cost of a new model, so to buy a new Accord, we’d have to trade both of these things in and then dump a pile of cash on top.
I agree that saying you’re driving something “into the ground” can really mean “I’m doing zero maintenance, on this and on everything else.” I keep well away from cars that look ill-maintained, because a careless attitude toward maintenance all too often indicates a careless attitude toward driving skills/traffic laws as well.
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:52 am
I love hearing everyone’s car stories. I loved my old 1995 Corolla, and it worked well for the city. However, I really enjoy driving my new car as well.
I bought the 95 Corolla in 2004 for $2,700, and traded it in at the dealer for a brand new Impreza for $1,500 in 2009. Between 2004 and 2009 I was in a minor accident where the at-fault insurance company paid me about $1,200 but it only cost me $300 to fix (because I didn’t care about the paint job.) So in some ways I only paid for car insurance over the course of 5 year.
I miss the savings with the Corolla, but now I have a new car that is appropriate for my outdoor adventures. I was going to buy a used Impreza but like some other people said, the used car wasn’t that much cheaper than the new one (in 2009).
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:06 am
We will be replacing my wife’s car this year because we decided we needed one of your new luxury features as well: “When it rains, the water stays out of the vehicle.” Not sure if we’ll get a brand new car or a used one, but either way, I plan on paying cash.
Personally, my car still feels pretty new to me, it’s a 2007 with less than 50k miles on it. It’s got a a few years left in it I’m sure. I should detail it, it’s getting to be a bit dirty.
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:10 am
We’re too young to have been through many cars.
We did get rid of our 2000 Hyundai Accent (2 doors, no a/c) a year before we had planned to. My sister (who drove it to high school until we could afford car insurance in Boston) had dented the front part. During a big blizzard (long story) we hit a pole that part fell off. Cosmetic damage only. But we failed the annual safety inspection and the cost to repair was more than the car would have been worth without damage. When we looked into donating the car nobody would even take it for free.
Since we were hoping to start a family and planned to move to the South, we’d been planning to get a car with 4 doors and a/c anyway, but the accident moved that up a year. Given my preference for new cars, we only had enough saved to get… another Hyundai Accent. Financing didn’t even cross our minds as something we could do.
It looks kind of funny next to all the other professors’ Honda Accords and minivans… and the students’ F150s-F450s and BMWs, but it works for me. I tell people it’s my graduate student car.
This time we’ll probably be willing to put more time and effort into repairing it before replacing since we have a second car, but I have a low tolerance for unexpected repairs. So we’ll see.
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:12 am
I was at E’s point (above, comment #53) when I finally decided to replace my old Miata. It had 155,000 miles on it. I brought it in to my mechanic because the A/C crapped out, and he said he couldn’t replace the A/C and the whole engine had issues. That was when I decided to get a new car. I bought an ‘08 Miata (or should I say “MX-5″) power hardtop, new, and plan to drive it into the ground, too.
So, E (#53), this is probably about the time when you want to get a new car. Or at least new to you.
-Erica
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:24 am
For the record, I love Robert’s guest posts. Every two weeks, I look forward to editing them because they make me laugh. I have no idea how long The Motley Fool will keep up this partnership, but I hope it’s forever!
I’m usually a “drive my car into the ground” kind of guy, too. But as you all know, I made an exception to get rid of my Focus to buy my used Mini Cooper. I’m SO glad I did. I love my Mini. When I bought it, though, I told people I’d soon replace it with a new one. Now I don’t think that’s going to happen. I really really like this vehicle (it’s the best car I’ve ever owned), so I’m going to do what I can to drive the thing around for years to come.
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:44 am
Drive 2 1997 Japanese cars - Nissan/Infiniti. Bought new/ 3 years old. Total repairs for both are less than $1,500 excluding brakes, scheduled servicing (entire lifetime!). Haven’t had a car payment in 9 years and never will again. We might be getting a bigger vehicle but cars could easily go another 5-10 years.
If you buy and hold, the cost is a lot less due to:
- skipping sales tax on every transaction
- lower insurance including eliminating collision
- lower registration fees
- less washing & waxing
- minimal depreciation after 7 years
If you live in the Southern half of the country vehicles last forever.
I suggest buying a car that you absolutely love used and holding it for at least 10 years. If you love it, you are less likely to want to trade up.
Flipping 2 cars every 3 years is as expensive as a mortgage on a $200,000 house. Do the math including tax benefits, car insurance, etc and you’ll see what I mean.
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:46 am
There are a lot of factors to consider. My 99′ Nissan Maxima is just shy of 200,000, but it still runs great. For those who enjoy DIY type of work, a lot of issues can be fixed for very little money. My A/C was also not working and the dealer wanted over $200 dollars to “re-charge” it. I bought a can of Arctic Freeze A/C recharge from walmart for $10 bucks and it’s good a new. $10 dollar fuel filter replacement as well. I know DIY isn’t for everyone, but if that type of thing interests you it makes it much easier to justify keeping a car longer and saves you LOTS of money.
My Maxima could probably go over 300,000 miles based on the condition of the engine, but body of the car is rusting rapidly so I will probably only get 1 or 2 more years out of it. Safety comes first, once that is gone so is the car.
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:48 am
My commute is 6 miles round trip. My vehicle is a ‘94 and I paid $300 for it. The engine is good - it seems to get stronger every day! The EPA rating is second to none, and I’ve spent less than $50 in repairs and maintenance in the past 3-4 years. I can do most of the work myself. A/C works great; well, it’s a convertible - so rainy days require some pre-planning, but no biggie. I install studded tires for winter commuting so I can get around on icy roads. It hauls me to and from work and I never worry that it will leave me stranded by the side of the road. It’s a model I’d highly recommend, but like many other vehicle models this particular one has been discontinued. If I keep washing it when it’s dirty and keep it maintained it should last another 5-8 years before I have to replace it. It’s a Schwinn.
February 3rd, 2010 at 12:03 pm
One big thing to think about is if you’re dependent on your car. If you are, repairs are necessary and a big time sink.
But if you bus or bike for your commute, and do most of your errands within walking distance, the car is just a nice luxury - if our car wouldn’t start and we were busy that day, we’d just get it fixed next week. Whatever.
Cars are a huge time and money sink if they’re a necessity in your life. Planning to be less car dependent (like all the people suggesting going to one car and renting if you need a second occasionally) saves on all of the factors you listed - money, aggravation, safety.
February 3rd, 2010 at 12:06 pm
My wife and I got married in May last year, and just before I decided to buy her a new car. She has a ‘97 Geo Prism with 232,000 miles that her Papa bought for $1000 4 years ago. I bought her a 2009 Ford Escape, they were offering 0% financing for 5 years, and the price was only $3000 more than an ‘08 with 15,000 miles….no brainer in my opinion. I dont think i would have bought a new car otherwise. In the meantime, I drive her old Prism back and forth to work, and change the oil every 3000 miles…runs like a champ and gets better mileage than my big truck!
February 3rd, 2010 at 12:18 pm
@63 Dave, you’re my hero.
February 3rd, 2010 at 12:54 pm
@63 Dave,
Was wondering if another bicyclist would post. We just moved back to the USA after a few years in Japan. We got used to alternative forms of transportation over there (trains, bikes, buses, etc.) and realized the many benefits of not using a car.
Since moving back to America, we’ve become a 1-car family. My stay-at-home wife uses the car to tote the kids around town, to school, play dates, etc; and I use my 10-year old bike to get to work - Low maintenance costs, good exercise, and environmentally friendly.
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:01 pm
This is a great post.
I think a lot of us are too quick to pull the trigger on getting a new car.
I recently sank almost $800 into my 1994 Toyota Tercel.
Might seem stupid, but if I get another four months out of it, that’s another four months without a car payment.
The way I see that math, its a good deal.
So, I am ridin’ on for the moment…
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:17 pm
Proud owner of a 98 Jeep wrangler with 140k miles. I bought the jeep in 2000 with 31k miles. To me it was my dream car when i purchased it, and it still is. I intend on driving the jeep for as long as i live. So far i have nearly $29,900 invested into it, or $250 a month. I keep the interior well cleaned, wax the exterior three times a year and change the oil regularly myself. Recently i got quotes for a new engine and to have it repainted - $5900! Clearly i would spend $5900 for maintence before i spend $25k to purchase a new car. Even with the worst repair, which required replacing the rear axle on two seperate occasions at a clip of $2100, i still wouldn’t consider getting a new(er) car.
Where has the mentality come from that cars need to be replaced because of repair cost? People don’t ditch thier house because it needs a new roof or furnace do they?
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:20 pm
Stephen– you can’t get a new house nicer than your current one for the cost of a furnace.
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:56 pm
@Nicole - And you can’t get a new car for the cost of a repair. That’s precisely the point Stephen was making.
February 3rd, 2010 at 2:17 pm
“Driving a car with a broken speedometer? Seriously? It’s also illegal.”
Really? It’s illegal? I’ve never heard that before. My ‘93 Corolla hasn’t had a working speedometer in a few years and it has passed inspection. I only really drive it on city streets, and I just drive with the flow of traffic. It is really no problem. I could see if you were doing a lot of interstate driving that it might matter.
We have the ‘93 Corolla and a 2000 Altima. Our car fund is slowly growing, and we’re hoping to pay cash for our next vehicle when one of the cars dies. I see no need to pay more than $10,000 for a replacement. I am allergic to car payments and would rather drive a clunker.
February 3rd, 2010 at 2:32 pm
@E in #53:
“All I need now is a fantastic deal on a gently used, fuel-efficient car that will comfortably hold 2 people, 2 60lb dogs, and a fair amount of stuff.”
Oooh, Scion xB (’04-’06). Just happens to be what I bought so I’m quite biased. I haven’t had the back seats up since my first grocery run. My dad’s Prius is nice and fancy but who got the dresser out of the garage and to St. Vincent’s last weekend? That’d be my little toaster.
Otherwise: dogcars.com
February 3rd, 2010 at 2:34 pm
Ok, you can’t get a USED house nicer than your current one for the cost of a furnace.
I personally have been in a situation where I CAN get a car nicer than the one that needs repairing for the less than the cost of a repair.
February 3rd, 2010 at 2:51 pm
I have a problem with the numbers in this post. The example Robert gives of a $25,000 car results in monthly payments of around $605 for 4 years. Then he compares that to spending $200/month on repairs. But that assumes you’re only going to keep the new car for 4 years. (Granted, he mentions the possiblity of keeping it longer, but that’s not factored into the analysis.)
If you assume you’re going to buy new and keep it for say ten years, you can spread that cost over 10 years then effectively it only costs you $240/month. So I’d argue that if you’re spending $200 on repair bills you’re spending too much money to keep an old car.
Good article and I like the principle behind it, but I think it could be a little misleading on the true cost of keeping a clunker around.
February 3rd, 2010 at 2:56 pm
After reading the comments I think I’ve got everyone beat as to the oldest car. Mine’s a 1988 Camry that has only 120,000 miles. I got it for free from my husband’s grandparents, who took very good care of it. It’s what’s known as a ‘cream puff’.
I’ve driven it for two years, with not one repair needed. It’s only used for short trips around town, so I hope to keep driving it for at least 10 years. Then it will be old enough for collector’s plates…LOL!
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:09 pm
Safety was my breaking point, too. In 2005 I parted with my 150k mileage 1989 Nissan Stanza. Great little car, everything worked (sunroof, windows, etc), upholstery was in great shape, etc. But the car just wasn’t that safe as I found myself driving on the interstate more often. It also wasn’t quite as comfortable as it used to be either.
So I sold it and bought a safer, nicer car in Aug 2005. I paid cash for the Acura I bought and of course, got quite an upgrade in every aspect of car ownership (safety, luxury, horsepower, etc). I’m still driving this Acura (currently at 107k miles).
The best thing about older cars is they are usually paid for, have reasonable insurance (although a really old car is less safe and a bit more to insure in some cases), and you know what to expect when you’ve owned that car for a number of years. It isn’t like the 1995 Explorer my dad bought when they were recalled back in the day, or my husband’s new Camry (recall), or Mom’s 2008 Avalon (recall). I know what works on my car and what to expect. Plus I save oodles of money driving a car I paid for with cash.
Some people argue that you spend a lot in repairs. I probably did spend about $3000 in non-routine repairs on my Stanza over the years. That’s $250 a year (over the 12 years I owned it) or $21/month. My Acura has so far cost me about $250 (oil leak) in non-routine repairs over the 4.5 years I’ve owned it.
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:10 pm
Here’s a question for anyone who has read to this point in the comments.
When is time to get rid of an old car? I have a 1986 Nissan pickup that I bought new. I have since bought a second car the I can drive my family around. The truck has been extremely reliable but I hardly drive it. I do lend to friends who need a pickup. Insurance costs are about $25.00/month. I’ve decided to keep it as long as it gets used 1 time per month. What do you think?
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:11 pm
@ Anne #73 - thanks!! xB is on our short list.
February 3rd, 2010 at 5:28 pm
#78 Jupe - I’d keep the truck assuming you don’t need the $25/mo savings or $1000 you’d get for the truck. I’ve thought several times about buying a truck (3rd car) for a myriad of reasons - haul flowers & mulch, haul furniture purchases and other large things, haul my 100lb dog who likes to get in the pond at the park. If I had a “beater” truck that was reliable no way would I sell it. Sure, having an extra vehicle sitting around that gets used once a month isn’t “frugal” but if it isn’t hindering your finances and you don’t mind having it take up a spot in your driveway I’d keep it - especially if it was reliable.
February 3rd, 2010 at 5:44 pm
I’m an editor, and I completely lost the point of this post in my glee over your comment that “pre-owned” makes no sense. Finally, someone who understands prefixes! Thank you!
February 3rd, 2010 at 5:50 pm
Okay, getting myself back on task…
Another problem when deciding whether to keep your old car is whether you can still get parts for it. This is particularly timely given the number of manufacturers that have gone belly-up lately. I drive a 1993 Oldsmobile, and I’m finding that local parts stores are less and less likely to have what I need. Online shopping has extended the timeframe, but I know I’m going to run out of options eventually.
February 3rd, 2010 at 5:54 pm
Glad to hear from cyclists! #63 Dave, your reply was perfect.
We live in such a car-based culture, but there can be great savings and significant health benefits going without.
I used to take my niece to kindergarten many days. It’s almost 2 miles away, and I would ride my bike with her in a trailer, or convert the trailer to a jogger and walk or run her to school. She gets so disappointed the few times I’ve shown up to pick her up and I’m in a regular car! I do miss the health benefits, too.
February 3rd, 2010 at 6:14 pm
My husband used to buy our used Toyota SUV’s when they had 100,000 - 130,000 miles on them and drive them into the ground (usually around 300,000 miles). Over the last twenty years, my husband and I bought at least four such used cars, and saved tons on lower property taxes, auto insurance, and depreciation. We thought it was worth the extra hassle of frequent and costly repairs, but all that changed one day when I was driving one of these SUV’s down a steep hill and had a total brake failure without warning. The emergency brake was worthless, too, so I ended up driving into a wall at 50 MPH to avoid crossing traffic at an upcoming intersection. That resulted in a 360 degree rollover. The verdict: rust in the undercarriage, despite regular maintenance. Now we buy new cars, but think it’s ironic that Toyotas are getting recalled for unpredictable acceleration problems.
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:19 pm
I love this… really knocked some sense into me.
My relatively new (2003) and (very well maintained) vehicle suddenly has some issues with the oil level… The first thing the guys at the shop (the dealer) said to me was “be prepared to buy a new car - or a new motor”. Huh. It only has 100K on it… this to me is inconceivable!
If, after a second opinion, the motor is determined to be shot - the math is pretty easy… a new motor it should be. Awwwwww monkey______!
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:29 pm
I will replace my 10 year old, 160,000 mile Mazda 626 when: 1) It totally, completely dies and cannot be repaired for reasonable cost, or 2)I have saved enough to buy a newish Mazda with cash.
I’m really hoping I can get to point 2. I love my old dependable 626, but I would love to be able to pay cash for a newer, shinier car!
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:36 pm
I see a lot of comments about how much time it costs to deal with a used/older car when it goes in the shop. Frankly *time* I have but $$ I don’t have. The amount saved vs. the amount in the shop (for me minimal over the years thanks to a great car) is so worth it. I need the money to save and pay off debt. I can take public trans a few days or rent a car to keep my old car going in the long run.
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:45 pm
Replace Mrs Klankenborg? Never!
She is a 1991 Volvo 240 with only 147,000 miles that I bought about 18 months ago when she had only 134,000 miles on the clock. Sure I’ve put plenty of cash into it, less than what I’d pay for a year of finance/lease payments, and it always gets me where I want to go and has never left me stuck somewhere (and cheap roadside assistance from USAA goes a long way).
All that’s left to fix is new shocks/struts and she’s good for another 150,000 miles, if I can find new driver’s seat foam (ow, my ass!).
Basically, if you maintain an older car, it’ll run for years. This decrepit minivan sounds like it was parked in a salt marsh and never maintained.
Oh and another thing: never take your car to a dealer (unless it’s in warranty) or a chain shop. Last month I ran over an ice boulder and cracked the exhaust pipe in front of the catalytic converter. Midas-type chain shop would have charged me a fortune, but the local exhaust shop replaced the pipe and charged me $75.
In April I’ll be getting my mom’s 1994 Camry with 34,000 miles on it. Wonder which will last longer: old sturdy Volvo, old barely-driven Toyota. Probably a draw.
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:09 pm
I agree, buying a new car every few years can be a financial pothole. Granted it is nice to get in a car that has that new car smell and drives like a champ, but in the long run it is not necessary.
I have a short commute to work. Maybe if I commuted a long way, I may have a different opinion.
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:12 pm
I am a firm believer in driving the old car into the ground. As far as when is it time to replace it? You will know! It will hit you like a ton of bricks and you will immediately know when it is time to abandon ship. The people who buy a good used vehicle and then drive it into the ground will over a lifetime spend at least 50% on vehicles than the average person. In my pf blog, I talk about how I am becoming debt free and will live like no one else!
Dollars Not Debt
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:40 pm
A truly well written article!
I must confess that in the past,I found Robert’s guest-post articles on here tended to be weighed down with too much personal opinion and somewhat fell flat with readers, but from a literary standpoint, he seems to have taken a page from J.D. and April’s book in the sense of making this article as informative and relative to readers as it was entertaining.
As for the information provided, I always believe in purchasing new-to-me items as long as they are in relatively-good shape. (”Wear it out ’til it wears out”)My family also did not have air conditioning, automatic doors, or various other “luxuries” until the year 2000. Are they a necessity? No. Do they ease the overall driving experience and add value to the vehicle? Indeed they DO.
It’s really all subjective and up to the individual, but I feel that Robert made a great decision, for like J.D. often says “Finances are more about the mind than the math.”
Enjoy Your Ride Robert
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:08 pm
“Monkey s***! Monkey s***!”
Our car stinks, too, for the same reason. But only when it’s rained for a few days going. It’s a 94 Chrysler LHS, with kid-friendly leather seats. We’ve had it for 4 years this month, and we paid $1200 for it. (Divorce special. The wife just wanted it out of her sight, poor lady.) Since then, we’ve replaced the tires and replaced the brakes (ourselves, with the help of some friends.) That means, excluding regular maintenance like oil changes, we’ve put a total of $1700 into her, which translates to $35.42/month. MPG could be better, but the price we paid more than makes up for it. And b/c she’s so old, we can get by with the lowest amount of insurance coverage, which comes out to $20/month (we have squeaky clean driving records and comprehensive medical, two other factors that keep premiums low.)
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:33 pm
Oh, and I don’t understand why anyone driving a paid-for beater would assume that they would have car payments with their next car? You have so many options. You could find a decent used one for $1k-$3k, or anticipate spending a little more and stocking a car savings account before the day comes.
Me, I don’t think I’ll ever spend more than $3k for a car. Unless it’s a hybrid–I’d be willing to invest $10k in one of those. IF I had the money saved.
February 4th, 2010 at 1:09 am
I beg to differ.
Faced with the same scenario when my old SEAT Leon was getting cranky and unreliable, I sat down and did the sums.
Taking everything into consideration it actually saved me money buying a brand new car on credit!!
The interest and monthly payments were offset by cheaper insurance, cheaper tax, much higher fuel efficiency and almost non-existent garage bills.
If my brand new car has maintained half of it’s original value after 3 years of payments, which it should do easily, then I’ll have saved myself almost £2000 on the deal.
Or put another way, I’ve paid myself £2000 to enjoy three years of breakdown, stink and noise free driving.
February 4th, 2010 at 6:35 am
The best option (in my opinion) is to be *really* honest about what you need in a car, what you want, and what your other life goals are.
Much like a budget, just try to be clear about what you’re spending for what you’re getting.
We rarely buy a new vehicle (aside from an ‘06 prius as it was a better overall deal) as I’m mechanically inclined and we can usually get a nicer used model below our budget. I personally like to get a few year old car with all the options for 50-70% off the original cost.
Buy what you can afford, start saving for the next car, and maintain the car(s) you currently have.
I don’t see what causes the car topic to be so confusing or different! Aside from peer pressure, perhaps.
p.s. - Our “new” car is a 2001 Honda Odyssey with 191k! We wanted a car that fit family and visitors, but didn’t want to get rid of my wife’s AWD Subaru yet. Safe and plenty of life left in it for the money! Additional nsurance is cheap, too, on something you’re not afraid to replace out of pocket.
February 4th, 2010 at 6:49 am
I’m shocked that this guy’s wife put up with toting the kids around in a minivan that smelled moldy.
I’m doubly shocked that another commenter thinks its perfectly OK to drive a car around with a completely broken speedometer. Are you serious? You really think that’s OK in *any* situation?
February 4th, 2010 at 8:07 am
Timely post - we just went car shopping yesterday. My 10 year old car went into the mechanic on Monday with what I thought were some small problems - turns out they were symptoms for several very large problems. To fix all of them (all of them impacted the safety of the vehicle) would have cost about the same as the value of the car itself. And then I thought - well, what happens if another major repair is needed within a few months?
There are moments when the ability to drive to work without the worry of breaking down take precedence over other financial goals. We’ll still make it all work, just a bit less to the debt snowball than we hoped.
February 4th, 2010 at 11:16 am
I think the “safety” issue is a strawman. Let’s be honest - any car built within the last decade, and properly maintained, is sufficiently “safe” for transporting your loved ones. Furthermore, I’d venture your odds of walking away from a collision are a lot better in a 10-year old Intrepid than any brand-new Smart ForTwo, Mini Cooper, or Toyota Yaris, regardless of how many more airbags the newer cars may boast.
In my opinion, anyone citing “safety” is merely rationalizing a desire for something shiny and new. If you want a new car because you just plain want a new car, then that’s fine, but at least be honest about it. Don’t try and snow me with BS about “safety.” You’re not fooling anyone.
February 4th, 2010 at 11:20 am
My philosophy, which has served me quite well, is to buy used, but high quality vehicles. In my opinion, there are only two makes of high-quality vehicles that are a great value, and those are Honda and Toyota.
The majority of those vehicles, I would bet anything, will last 10+ years and 200k+ miles with nothing but an oil change once every 8k miles, and the occasional minor repair bill.
Those cars are designed to last 200k+ miles, while the Chevy’s and, until recently, Fords, are mostly junk. And that goes for all the other high-maintenance junk (ask Consumer Reports), like Volkswagen, Nissan, Cadillac, etc. Are there exceptions within these lines? Yes. But resale is another thing to factor. For that reason, it’s Honda or Toyota all the way for me.
I saw on cnn today that resale values on Toyota have dropped 10% because of the recent recalls. This is ridiculous, but if true, then they are an even better value right now!
February 4th, 2010 at 11:32 am
@Kevin
If you read through these posts 10 years is a fairly *new* car. I agree about any car built within the last decade, the majority of which are going to have between 100k and 150k miles. I think that is a perfectly reasonable time to get rid of a car. Most of the safety comments appear to me to be to people putting 200k+ miles on 20 year old cars.
And I would put just about anything up against those tiny cars with non-existent crumple zones. Air bags just can’t beat the pure physics of deceleration in a crash situation. You need distance over which to decelerate or the force on your body is such that you just can’t avoid injury or death. In my mind it’s worse than driving without insurance. In the unlikely event that you’re in a bad crash you don’t risk paying for a car, you risk your life.